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NFT: Knicks Chat: Shved, Butler, Green being discussed

DanMetroMan : 7/7/2015 8:03 am
Berman says they are contemplating offering their remaining 2.8 to Shved but also considering others such as Butler and Green

- Bargnani will NOT be back

-Ledo has some guaranteed money owed this year and Jackson likes him with some backup 3 minutes

-Still want Smith but think he will get more than the 2.8 they can offer

-KP may not play summer league, this would be a bummer
Latvian rookie Kristaps Porzingis still hasn’t decided if he will play for the Knicks summer league, according to multiple sources. The 7-foot-3 Porzingis, coming off a rugged Spanish League season with Sevilla, had been nursing hip tightness entering the NBA draft — an injury that cut short his pre-draft workout with the Knicks.


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RE: Potential 2017 Free Agents  
EricNY33 : 7/7/2015 11:29 am : link
In comment 12359768 kash94 said:
Quote:
(assuming that certain options are accepted in 2016 and declined in 2017)

-Dwight Howard
-Derrick Rose
-Westbrook
-Ibaka
-Teague
-Griffin
-Chris Paul
-Curry
-Lawson
-Bogut
-Jrue Holliday
-DeRozen
-Dirk
-Oladipo
-McLemore
-Hill
-Shabazz
-Giannis

And maybe even more depending on how the rest of this free agency goes. Remember cap is projected to be over 100 million then so a lot of free agents would want to align themselves so they can sign a contract that year.


PLEASE get CP3 in 2017. Let's have a Paul-Melo tandem for the final year of his deal here... of course this is assuming the Knicks don't trade Melo before then.
RE: they have to find a way  
kash94 : 7/7/2015 11:29 am : link
In comment 12359760 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
Only way this team will take a step towards being a contender

I wouldn't be surprised if they go hard after Paul with the connection to melo


Paul could work. Who knows what the Clippers will be like in 2 years. He's a fan of NYC, Melo, and if he doesn't have a ring by then, he'll definitely make perhaps some unconventional moves at that point of his career to go with a team with upside.

For as much as people knock him for his playoff performances and injury issues, he played all 82 games last year and averaged 19 and 10 shooting 49, 40 and 90. Insane 26 PER.
I can't help but be impressed with  
Gatorade Dunk : 7/7/2015 11:29 am : link
how fast KP is growing. Just a few weeks ago, he was 7'1" with a chance to grow into his frame at 7'2". Can't believe he's up to 7'3" already. At this pace, he'll be around 9'6" before the season starts.
Remember that most guys who havent gotten one big deal already  
Deej : 7/7/2015 11:30 am : link
will resign early and/or take the 5th year. As they should.
RE: I can't help but be impressed with  
Deej : 7/7/2015 11:32 am : link
In comment 12359786 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
how fast KP is growing. Just a few weeks ago, he was 7'1" with a chance to grow into his frame at 7'2". Can't believe he's up to 7'3" already. At this pace, he'll be around 9'6" before the season starts.


7'1 without shoes is upped to 7'3 because most NBA players are given 2 inches for shoes in the officially listed #s.
RE: If they give Alexey another year  
TheMick7 : 7/7/2015 11:34 am : link
In comment 12359765 Headhunter said:
Quote:
would he be a Grateful Shved?


Then you could root for him as a DeadHead-Hunter!
RE: I can't help but be impressed with  
giantsfan44ab : 7/7/2015 11:44 am : link
In comment 12359786 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
how fast KP is growing. Just a few weeks ago, he was 7'1" with a chance to grow into his frame at 7'2". Can't believe he's up to 7'3" already. At this pace, he'll be around 9'6" before the season starts.


Yeah, those differences are due to shoes/without shoes measurements. There's a point where being really tall starts to be a bad thing, anyways.
More specifically...  
Italianju : 7/7/2015 11:44 am : link
the Euro teams list players heights without shoes, NBA lists them with shoes.

I wont say no to paul, but if he is going to be getting a big money deal still ( I assume he will) that will be very risky at that point.
Drummond/Durant/Conley  
giants#1 : 7/7/2015 11:47 am : link
would be my targets next year, but they're all long shots at best.

Most of the rest of the guys are on the wrong side of 30.
RE: RE: I can't help but be impressed with  
Gatorade Dunk : 7/7/2015 11:48 am : link
In comment 12359795 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 12359786 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


how fast KP is growing. Just a few weeks ago, he was 7'1" with a chance to grow into his frame at 7'2". Can't believe he's up to 7'3" already. At this pace, he'll be around 9'6" before the season starts.



7'1 without shoes is upped to 7'3 because most NBA players are given 2 inches for shoes in the officially listed #s.

At the risk of being contrarian, do any of you own basketball shoes that give you a 2" lift? Seems like that's a bit generous anyway. For American players that have with/without shoe measurements (any of those who just went through the draft combine, for example), isn't the variance closer to an inch or less?
RE: Drummond/Durant/Conley  
giantsfan44ab : 7/7/2015 11:49 am : link
In comment 12359825 giants#1 said:
Quote:
would be my targets next year, but they're all long shots at best.

Most of the rest of the guys are on the wrong side of 30.

Drummond is restricted.
RE: RE: RE: I can't help but be impressed with  
giantsfan44ab : 7/7/2015 11:51 am : link
In comment 12359828 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 12359795 Deej said:


Quote:


In comment 12359786 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


how fast KP is growing. Just a few weeks ago, he was 7'1" with a chance to grow into his frame at 7'2". Can't believe he's up to 7'3" already. At this pace, he'll be around 9'6" before the season starts.



7'1 without shoes is upped to 7'3 because most NBA players are given 2 inches for shoes in the officially listed #s.


At the risk of being contrarian, do any of you own basketball shoes that give you a 2" lift? Seems like that's a bit generous anyway. For American players that have with/without shoe measurements (any of those who just went through the draft combine, for example), isn't the variance closer to an inch or less?


My shoes give me a bit less than an inch. That being said, big men usually have heavier, thicker shoes. Not sure what type of shoes KP wears, but they could be a bit optimistic when listing these measurements.
RE: RE: Drummond/Durant/Conley  
giants#1 : 7/7/2015 11:57 am : link
In comment 12359830 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 12359825 giants#1 said:


Quote:


would be my targets next year, but they're all long shots at best.

Most of the rest of the guys are on the wrong side of 30.


Drummond is restricted.


Hence why he's a massive longshot.
Sorry  
giantsfan44ab : 7/7/2015 11:59 am : link
overlooked that part.
RE: RE: RE: I can't help but be impressed with  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/7/2015 12:03 pm : link
In comment 12359828 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 12359795 Deej said:


Quote:


In comment 12359786 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


how fast KP is growing. Just a few weeks ago, he was 7'1" with a chance to grow into his frame at 7'2". Can't believe he's up to 7'3" already. At this pace, he'll be around 9'6" before the season starts.



7'1 without shoes is upped to 7'3 because most NBA players are given 2 inches for shoes in the officially listed #s.


At the risk of being contrarian, do any of you own basketball shoes that give you a 2" lift? Seems like that's a bit generous anyway. For American players that have with/without shoe measurements (any of those who just went through the draft combine, for example), isn't the variance closer to an inch or less?


Could shoes be differently made for pros? Maybe more cushioning? I haven't bought actual basketball shoes in a decade.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I can't help but be impressed with  
giantsfan44ab : 7/7/2015 12:07 pm : link
In comment 12359868 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 12359828 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 12359795 Deej said:


Quote:


In comment 12359786 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:

Could shoes be differently made for pros? Maybe more cushioning? I haven't bought actual basketball shoes in a decade.


Don't know for sure but my guess would be that they don't play in the stock ones you can get at a foot locker. I'm sure there are at least some minor unique features that are customized for each player. But I can't see a shoe making a player two inches taller though.
Huh?  
AnotherGiantsFan : 7/7/2015 12:10 pm : link
There are a ton of basketball players that play in Jordans. Of course they play in sneakers you could get from Foot Locker.
RE: Huh?  
giantsfan44ab : 7/7/2015 12:12 pm : link
In comment 12359882 AnotherGiantsFan said:
Quote:
There are a ton of basketball players that play in Jordans. Of course they play in sneakers you could get from Foot Locker.


Well if you know that for sure then there's the answer. Again, I was just guessing that they have some customization to an extent (like perfect size, additional cushioning, more shock support, etc.).
RE: More specifically...  
EricNY33 : 7/7/2015 12:12 pm : link
In comment 12359821 Italianju said:
Quote:
the Euro teams list players heights without shoes, NBA lists them with shoes.

I wont say no to paul, but if he is going to be getting a big money deal still ( I assume he will) that will be very risky at that point.


True but that deal should be for less years. Paul will be 32 in 2017. If he wants 4 years, depending on the health of his knee, I would give it to him. There's a chance at hime too if L.A. falls apart.
Following  
Reeses Pieces : 7/7/2015 12:13 pm : link
basketball recruits and draft prospects measurements over the years i've seen most with shoes-w/o shoes differentiate from 1.25"-1.5" on average. KP measured at 7-1.25 w/o shoes. throw on the 1.5" and he's standing at 7'2.75". So give him the quarter inch and call him 7-3.
RE: Huh?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/7/2015 12:15 pm : link
In comment 12359882 AnotherGiantsFan said:
Quote:
There are a ton of basketball players that play in Jordans. Of course they play in sneakers you could get from Foot Locker.


Obut I wouldn't be absolutely shocked if NBA players had specially-made shoes. I didn't think that would be out of the realm of possibility.
Some players might  
AnotherGiantsFan : 7/7/2015 12:16 pm : link
But players wear common brands, or their own brand specifically, all the time.

Jordan wore Jordans, LeBron wears LeBrons, Shaq wore Shaqs, Melo wears Melos, KD wears KDs. The list goes on and on.
Are we really  
EricNY33 : 7/7/2015 12:17 pm : link
talking about sneakers?
RE: Are we really  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/7/2015 12:18 pm : link
In comment 12359896 EricNY33 said:
Quote:
talking about sneakers?


Like there's anything interesting to talk about today, lol.
RE: Some players might  
giantsfan44ab : 7/7/2015 12:19 pm : link
In comment 12359894 AnotherGiantsFan said:
Quote:
But players wear common brands, or their own brand specifically, all the time.

Jordan wore Jordans, LeBron wears LeBrons, Shaq wore Shaqs, Melo wears Melos, KD wears KDs. The list goes on and on.


Not talking about brands. Talking about the specific features within the shoes KD wears, Melo wears, Jordan wear, etc. Melo wears J's but I'd be shocked if it had the same insoles, arches and cushioning as my pair of Melo's.
Lets talk more about next years FAs  
AnotherGiantsFan : 7/7/2015 12:20 pm : link
And Euro's who's names we can't spell that might move to America to play basketball.

This is where we are at until the Summer League starts for us.

Plus, I was one of those losers who actually collected Jordans and paid attention to what sneakers basketball players wore. No clue why.
RE: Lets talk more about next years FAs  
EricNY33 : 7/7/2015 12:23 pm : link
In comment 12359904 AnotherGiantsFan said:
Quote:
And Euro's who's names we can't spell that might move to America to play basketball.

This is where we are at until the Summer League starts for us.

Plus, I was one of those losers who actually collected Jordans and paid attention to what sneakers basketball players wore. No clue why.


LOL collecting things is ok... even sneakers. Did you wear them?
I'm sure there's some customization as far as fit and sole  
AnotherGiantsFan : 7/7/2015 12:24 pm : link
But I can't picture adding an inch to the arch or whatever. But then again, I have no fucking clue.
Anyone watching current SL games or highlights?  
giantsfan44ab : 7/7/2015 12:26 pm : link
None of the top 10 picks have yet to disappoint, all have been putting up nice games. Really like what Myles Turner has shown so far more specifically.

And the biggest surprise for me so far is Aaron Gordon. He's hitting pull up jump shots off the dribble and getting a couple of 3s in every game. If this is not just a hot streak and it continues, he could really become a big time 2-way player.
RE: RE: Lets talk more about next years FAs  
AnotherGiantsFan : 7/7/2015 12:30 pm : link
In comment 12359911 EricNY33 said:
Quote:
In comment 12359904 AnotherGiantsFan said:


Quote:


And Euro's who's names we can't spell that might move to America to play basketball.

This is where we are at until the Summer League starts for us.

Plus, I was one of those losers who actually collected Jordans and paid attention to what sneakers basketball players wore. No clue why.



LOL collecting things is ok... even sneakers. Did you wear them?


At some point all of them were worn, but I kept them in mint condition while wearing them. I would have "crease guards" in the front so the front wouldn't crease (obvious statement is obvious). I've caught myself putting plastic bags on my shoes while it rained and I was walking home.

If it was a new release, I would start wearing them a couple of years later because mostly everyone else dogged theirs by now and I was the only kid with a fresh pair of whichever model it was.

I still have a few really valuable Jordans in my closet that I haven't worn in years, but I wouldn't even know how to get rid of them at this point.
RE: Anyone watching current SL games or highlights?  
EricNY33 : 7/7/2015 12:32 pm : link
In comment 12359917 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
None of the top 10 picks have yet to disappoint, all have been putting up nice games. Really like what Myles Turner has shown so far more specifically.

And the biggest surprise for me so far is Aaron Gordon. He's hitting pull up jump shots off the dribble and getting a couple of 3s in every game. If this is not just a hot streak and it continues, he could really become a big time 2-way player.


No because I have this thing called a job and it takes up a large portion of my time.. :-)
RE: Anyone watching current SL games or highlights?  
kash94 : 7/7/2015 12:33 pm : link
In comment 12359917 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
None of the top 10 picks have yet to disappoint, all have been putting up nice games. Really like what Myles Turner has shown so far more specifically.

And the biggest surprise for me so far is Aaron Gordon. He's hitting pull up jump shots off the dribble and getting a couple of 3s in every game. If this is not just a hot streak and it continues, he could really become a big time 2-way player.


Pretty high on Gordon too. He's only like 18 right? Magic have a ton of young players with potential over there and have a potential high 1st round pick in a few years via the Lakers
RE: Anyone watching current SL games or highlights?  
kash94 : 7/7/2015 12:33 pm : link
In comment 12359917 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
None of the top 10 picks have yet to disappoint, all have been putting up nice games. Really like what Myles Turner has shown so far more specifically.

And the biggest surprise for me so far is Aaron Gordon. He's hitting pull up jump shots off the dribble and getting a couple of 3s in every game. If this is not just a hot streak and it continues, he could really become a big time 2-way player.


Pretty high on Gordon too. He's only like 18 right? Magic have a ton of young players with potential over there and have a potential high 1st round pick in a few years via the Lakers
There was these one pair of Jordans I had  
AnotherGiantsFan : 7/7/2015 12:34 pm : link
Where at that point they were about 9 years old, and you can basically convert Jordan years into dog years and calculate that to an eternity.

They were still in incredibly good condition and I decided to wear them to some party so I can feel like the freshest motherfucker alive. Long story short, the sole ended up falling off half the sneaker and I had to scotch tape my sneaker together. I guess that's what happens when you wear decade old sneakers that are more or less held by glue.
The T-Wolves  
EricNY33 : 7/7/2015 12:39 pm : link
bringing back KG is only going to help KAT's development. He's very similar to KG as a player. With KG's tutelage he could really reach his superstar potential.
And/or douchebag potential  
AnotherGiantsFan : 7/7/2015 12:42 pm : link
.
RE: And/or douchebag potential  
EricNY33 : 7/7/2015 12:44 pm : link
In comment 12359968 AnotherGiantsFan said:
Quote:
.


This is true, but douchebag or not, KG is a first ballot HOF'er.
My question with Towns is his attitude  
nygiants16 : 7/7/2015 12:45 pm : link
and not the if he is lazy part..from what i read he is a very hard worker BUT i wonder if he has the attitude to be a superstar...he seems very laid back and kind of go with the flow type of player rather than come in and take over type of player...

I think he ends up playing second fiddle to Wiggins and Wiggins becomes the face of the franchise....

I still think he will be very good, i just dont know if he will live up to superstar...

RE: RE: Anyone watching current SL games or highlights?  
giantsfan44ab : 7/7/2015 12:46 pm : link
In comment 12359932 EricNY33 said:
Quote:
In comment 12359917 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


None of the top 10 picks have yet to disappoint, all have been putting up nice games. Really like what Myles Turner has shown so far more specifically.

And the biggest surprise for me so far is Aaron Gordon. He's hitting pull up jump shots off the dribble and getting a couple of 3s in every game. If this is not just a hot streak and it continues, he could really become a big time 2-way player.



No because I have this thing called a job and it takes up a large portion of my time.. :-)


One of the many perks of still being in school I guess.
RE: RE: RE: Lets talk more about next years FAs  
giantsfan44ab : 7/7/2015 12:47 pm : link
In comment 12359925 AnotherGiantsFan said:
Quote:
In comment 12359911 EricNY33 said:


Quote:


In comment 12359904 AnotherGiantsFan said:


Quote:

I still have a few really valuable Jordans in my closet that I haven't worn in years, but I wouldn't even know how to get rid of them at this point.


Haha what size are you?
RE: My question with Towns is his attitude  
EricNY33 : 7/7/2015 12:49 pm : link
In comment 12359977 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
and not the if he is lazy part..from what i read he is a very hard worker BUT i wonder if he has the attitude to be a superstar...he seems very laid back and kind of go with the flow type of player rather than come in and take over type of player...

I think he ends up playing second fiddle to Wiggins and Wiggins becomes the face of the franchise....

I still think he will be very good, i just dont know if he will live up to superstar...


Because he's a Timberwolf. If he were a Knick you'd be singing a different tune. You can argue against it but you're a Knicks apologist my friend. Just accept it. :-)

Your fears about Towns though are kinda what I mean. Having a guy like KG there who was a superstar and carried a team SHOULD rub off on him. That's my point.
On another note  
AnotherGiantsFan : 7/7/2015 12:50 pm : link
I like how Wiggins had this rep for being too laid back or not aggressive enough, but here he is in the NBA as a rookie going for posterizing dunk after posterizing dunk. He really impressed the hell out of me. I'm rooting hard for him.
RE: My question with Towns is his attitude  
giants#1 : 7/7/2015 12:51 pm : link
In comment 12359977 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
and not the if he is lazy part..from what i read he is a very hard worker BUT i wonder if he has the attitude to be a superstar...he seems very laid back and kind of go with the flow type of player rather than come in and take over type of player...

I think he ends up playing second fiddle to Wiggins and Wiggins becomes the face of the franchise....

I still think he will be very good, i just dont know if he will live up to superstar...


Plenty of "laid back" guys have been superstars: Duncan, Jeter, Rivera, Durant, Eli, etc. If you've got the talent and put in the work, you don't have to be a hot head to succeed.

And Wiggins being the face of the franchise won't impact whether he becomes a star or not either. MJ was the face of the Bulls but Pippen still became a superstar. Eli being the face of the Giants hasn't stopped Beckham.
RE: RE: Anyone watching current SL games or highlights?  
giantsfan44ab : 7/7/2015 12:52 pm : link
In comment 12359937 kash94 said:
Quote:
In comment 12359917 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:

Pretty high on Gordon too. He's only like 18 right? Magic have a ton of young players with potential over there and have a potential high 1st round pick in a few years via the Lakers


Yeah, they just need a coach that could figure out how to utilize the talent properly. If you are comparing talent, I think they edge out Milwaukee. Orlando has a bunch of potential 2-way players in Oladipo, Payton, Gordon and Hezonja. Could also package Harris and maybe Vucevic along with Harkless, Nicholson, and Fournier for a cornerstone piece (maybe Cousins still?).

As for Milwaukee, the only complete players they have are Middleton and Giannis (if he can get his shot down). MCW is TO prone and doesn't look like he can shoot properly, and Parker and Monroe aren't great defensive players by any means.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Lets talk more about next years FAs  
AnotherGiantsFan : 7/7/2015 12:52 pm : link
In comment 12359985 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 12359925 AnotherGiantsFan said:


Quote:


In comment 12359911 EricNY33 said:


Quote:


In comment 12359904 AnotherGiantsFan said:


Quote:

I still have a few really valuable Jordans in my closet that I haven't worn in years, but I wouldn't even know how to get rid of them at this point.



Haha what size are you?


11, but I was a 10.5 in my Jordan era so I probably have sizes from 10-10.5
RE: RE: My question with Towns is his attitude  
giants#1 : 7/7/2015 12:53 pm : link
In comment 12359995 EricNY33 said:
Quote:
In comment 12359977 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


and not the if he is lazy part..from what i read he is a very hard worker BUT i wonder if he has the attitude to be a superstar...he seems very laid back and kind of go with the flow type of player rather than come in and take over type of player...

I think he ends up playing second fiddle to Wiggins and Wiggins becomes the face of the franchise....

I still think he will be very good, i just dont know if he will live up to superstar...




Because he's a Timberwolf. If he were a Knick you'd be singing a different tune. You can argue against it but you're a Knicks apologist my friend. Just accept it. :-)

Your fears about Towns though are kinda what I mean. Having a guy like KG there who was a superstar and carried a team SHOULD rub off on him. That's my point.


Yea, KG won't let their heads get to big and will make sure they put in the work needed. Plus, he's as good a team defender as we've seen the last 2 decades and having a guy like that around Towns/Wiggins (both of which have the talent to be lockdown defenders) should only help.
RE: RE: My question with Towns is his attitude  
EricNY33 : 7/7/2015 12:54 pm : link
In comment 12360003 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 12359977 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


and not the if he is lazy part..from what i read he is a very hard worker BUT i wonder if he has the attitude to be a superstar...he seems very laid back and kind of go with the flow type of player rather than come in and take over type of player...

I think he ends up playing second fiddle to Wiggins and Wiggins becomes the face of the franchise....

I still think he will be very good, i just dont know if he will live up to superstar...




Plenty of "laid back" guys have been superstars: Duncan, Jeter, Rivera, Durant, Eli, etc. If you've got the talent and put in the work, you don't have to be a hot head to succeed.

And Wiggins being the face of the franchise won't impact whether he becomes a star or not either. MJ was the face of the Bulls but Pippen still became a superstar. Eli being the face of the Giants hasn't stopped Beckham.


Beckham is a superstar already? Since when?
RE: There was these one pair of Jordans I had  
giants#1 : 7/7/2015 12:54 pm : link
In comment 12359940 AnotherGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Where at that point they were about 9 years old, and you can basically convert Jordan years into dog years and calculate that to an eternity.

They were still in incredibly good condition and I decided to wear them to some party so I can feel like the freshest motherfucker alive. Long story short, the sole ended up falling off half the sneaker and I had to scotch tape my sneaker together. I guess that's what happens when you wear decade old sneakers that are more or less held by glue.


So you went from being the freshest mofo alive, to the hobo off the street with duct taped shoes. I'm sure the ladies were all over you that night!
RE: On another note  
giantsfan44ab : 7/7/2015 12:55 pm : link
In comment 12359999 AnotherGiantsFan said:
Quote:
I like how Wiggins had this rep for being too laid back or not aggressive enough, but here he is in the NBA as a rookie going for posterizing dunk after posterizing dunk. He really impressed the hell out of me. I'm rooting hard for him.


Agreed. Was a huge shock for me. I thought he would be a defensive player first primarily. To be honest, many of this stuff came from left field. Not sure if it was a combo of other Kansas guys like Embiid, Ellis and Seldon stealing his thunder, but he tended to defer a lot and he had suspect handles. Now after just one year, I can see him being up there with Davis in the top tier in a few years.
RE: RE: My question with Towns is his attitude  
nygiants16 : 7/7/2015 12:57 pm : link
In comment 12360003 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 12359977 nygiants16 said:




Plenty of "laid back" guys have been superstars: Duncan, Jeter, Rivera, Durant, Eli, etc. If you've got the talent and put in the work, you don't have to be a hot head to succeed.

And Wiggins being the face of the franchise won't impact whether he becomes a star or not either. MJ was the face of the Bulls but Pippen still became a superstar. Eli being the face of the Giants hasn't stopped Beckham.


But all the players you mentioned had that killer instinct to take over in the big spot...

My question about towns is does he have that killer instinct? Maybe he does and i am just over looking it, but i havnt seen it yet...
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