NFT: Knicks Chat: Shved, Butler, Green being discussed

In comment 12360014 EricNY33 said:

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Beckham is a superstar already? Since when?

Superstar? Maybe not, but he's a top 10 WR and had no trouble playing 2nd fiddle to Eli. He did get a vote for the All-Pro team and made the pro-bowl.

Don't like Beckham as an example, Duncan had no problem developing with the Spurs despite the Admiral being the face of the franchise. Ditto Leonard in recent years despite Duncan still the face of the Spurs.

In comment 12359995 EricNY33 said:

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In comment 12359977 nygiants16 said: Quote: Because he's a Timberwolf. If he were a Knick you'd be singing a different tune. You can argue against it but you're a Knicks apologist my friend. Just accept it. :-) Your fears about Towns though are kinda what I mean. Having a guy like KG there who was a superstar and carried a team SHOULD rub off on him. That's my point.

haha you are probably right

In comment 12360025 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 12360003 giants#1 said: Quote: In comment 12359977 nygiants16 said: Plenty of "laid back" guys have been superstars: Duncan, Jeter, Rivera, Durant, Eli, etc. If you've got the talent and put in the work, you don't have to be a hot head to succeed. And Wiggins being the face of the franchise won't impact whether he becomes a star or not either. MJ was the face of the Bulls but Pippen still became a superstar. Eli being the face of the Giants hasn't stopped Beckham. But all the players you mentioned had that killer instinct to take over in the big spot... My question about towns is does he have that killer instinct? Maybe he does and i am just over looking it, but i havnt seen it yet...

But claiming they had the killer instinct is hindsight. I'm sure there are still idiots out there knocking Eli for being too laid back.

literally had the exact same issues last year at this time - people saying that he's too laid back. That worked out well.

Little too early to tell and I'm not a fan of "does not have killer instinct" type of trait. End of the day we don't know too much about his inner mind at this stage as others have mentioned, plenty of calm athletes have succeeded.

There's plenty of reasons to believe he won't be a star and rather just a very solid player, but I don't think it will be because of attitude.

In comment 12360016 giants#1 said:

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So you went from being the freshest mofo alive, to the hobo off the street with duct taped shoes. I'm sure the ladies were all over you that night!

They were about as onto me as the sole was to my sneakers sans tape.

Eli showed a the ability put the team on his back in college, there was proof that he could put a team on his back and drive them down the field for the win...

Duncan carried his teams in college, there was no doubt about him coming out of college...

Jeter from his rookie season he stood out...people knew he was going to be special...

All the players you mentioned showed from the start that they had that killer instinct...they had that gene where they want to go out and carry there team...

Towns has yet to show that yet...maybe he has it and just has not shown it and i am wrong

when you are the superstar of the team you have to be the one that everyone turns to when the game is on the line, you have to be the player that says i want the ball...

All i am saying is i have not seen that from Towns yet...

He had an oppurtunity to do it against Winsconsin in College and he deferred to the Harrison twins, now to be fair tha tmay not be his fault because Calipari game planned it that way

In comment 12360037 nygiants16 said:

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Eli showed a the ability put the team on his back in college, there was proof that he could put a team on his back and drive them down the field for the win... Duncan carried his teams in college, there was no doubt about him coming out of college... Jeter from his rookie season he stood out...people knew he was going to be special... All the players you mentioned showed from the start that they had that killer instinct...they had that gene where they want to go out and carry there team... Towns has yet to show that yet...maybe he has it and just has not shown it and i am wrong

\

He showed it in the Notre Dame game. He was showing it in the Wisconsin game until the Harrison twins decided to stop going to him.

In fact... as the season went on Towns grew more and more into that role. The thing with him was he needed someone to give him the ball.

Towns not getting enough shots off could also be because

1- offensive system
2- he didn't play many minutes
3- attitudes of other players
4- the position he plays (it's not like he's a guard or SF who can dribble the ball up the court. he literally needs someone to give it to him).

But who knows at this point - anyone's guess is fair game

In comment 12360041 nygiants16 said:

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when you are the superstar of the team you have to be the one that everyone turns to when the game is on the line, you have to be the player that says i want the ball... All i am saying is i have not seen that from Towns yet... He had an oppurtunity to do it against Winsconsin in College and he deferred to the Harrison twins, now to be fair tha tmay not be his fault because Calipari game planned it that way

Yeah, it was UK's system that asks the complete opposite of its players. Cal sticks to the platoon system, even if it calls for sitting a player that starts off hot. Towns was a man against boys in the ND game.

In comment 12360045 EricNY33 said:

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In comment 12360037 nygiants16 said: He showed it in the Notre Dame game. He was showing it in the Wisconsin game until the Harrison twins decided to stop going to him. In fact... as the season went on Towns grew more and more into that role. The thing with him was he needed someone to give him the ball.

I agree he started showing more and more as the season went on and that is why he was the number 1 pick....

Now he has to show it in the NBA...my question is how much is he going to defer? it is not like he is going to a team with a bunch of veterans, it is a young team looking to be carried...

now i am not going to kill the kid if his first month in the NBA he is not taking the league by storm, but i want to see if he improves each month of the season as he gets acclimated...

I want to see the same thing from Porzingis, i want to see him improve as the season goes on, i know there are going to be games where he plays like dog shit but i want to see bounce back games and him improving as he gets used to the style of play

to defer to the more experienced players on their teams. Even Eli did it his first year or 2 until Tiki & to some extent Shockey were gone.

I don't see him becoming a 25 and 12 player like Cousins. For him to live up to what he was hyped into being, an 18 and 10 guy that makes a few All Defensive teams will be enough to have warranted the 1st pick in this draft. I don't think he's going to lead the league in anything, but he has the tools to turn a team into a contender, even though he may not lead it in scoring every night.

In comment 12360057 giants#1 said:

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to defer to the more experienced players on their teams. Even Eli did it his first year or 2 until Tiki & to some extent Shockey were gone.

But Eli showed he had the guts to lead a team down the field with time running out, even in his rookie season, his first win is a drive down the field to win the game...

In his second season he led the team to a 11-5 record and a division championship with a couple of game winning drives...

In comment 12360058 giantsfan44ab said:

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I don't see him becoming a 25 and 12 player like Cousins. For him to live up to what he was hyped into being, an 18 and 10 guy that makes a few All Defensive teams will be enough to have warranted the 1st pick in this draft. I don't think he's going to lead the league in anything, but he has the tools to turn a team into a contender, even though he may not lead it in scoring every night.

It is going to take a couple of years but from superstar players you see glimpses of it early on then they start to put it together...

Towns i dont think is going to be the type of player that it is going to be just about scoring, it is going to be about everything, he has the tools to take over a game in a bunch of different ways...

what i am saying is i am not sure he is going to be THE guy on his team, i am not sure he has it in him to say ok guys follow me

In comment 12360068 nygiants16 said:

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what i am saying is i am not sure he is going to be THE guy on his team, i am not sure he has it in him to say ok guys follow me

Fortunately for him he has Wiggins on his team, so I don't think that burden is put on him. I think we all agreed that none of the players in this draft were capable of being the guy. I think Towns could be the #2 on a second team and I see every other top pick from this draft as being the #3 guy at best.

not second team

Man, that's an ugly #.

curious to see

KP, Grant, Labeyrie, Ndour and Galdikas. I've seen the greek kid a decent amount.

Bray doesn't look like an NBA caliber talent to me (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkJpGMNNiP8)

Baron https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZDhPEhOWYw

Strong is turning 29... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62cGPUUewzw

In comment 12360101 Pep22 said:

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Man, that's an ugly #.

He wants to wear 6 but is deferring to Wear at this point.

I liked him a lot coming out of Wichita State. Kick some ass, Cleanthony.

We're winning this shit

In comment 12360074 giantsfan44ab said:

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In comment 12360068 nygiants16 said: Quote: what i am saying is i am not sure he is going to be THE guy on his team, i am not sure he has it in him to say ok guys follow me Fortunately for him he has Wiggins on his team, so I don't think that burden is put on him. I think we all agreed that none of the players in this draft were capable of being the guy. I think Towns could be the #2 on a second team and I see every other top pick from this draft as being the #3 guy at best.

If Wiggins is leading the team the Wolves are in trouble.

Should be a fun Summer League. KP, Early, Ledo, Grant, Labeyrie and Thanasis, for me.

are the ones with the best shot of being something. Porz, Grant, Galloway, Early, and the Greek. I try not to get my hopes up over deep sleepers.

In comment 12360121 Deej said:

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are the ones with the best shot of being something. Porz, Grant, Galloway, Early, and the Greek. I try not to get my hopes up over deep sleepers.

Agreed, although interested to see Labourly(however you spell it) play since he is a draft pick...

Really not interested in Wear and hope he is not brought back...

Grant Galloway Early Greek Porz should be the starting 5...i hope Fisher doesnt start LEdo and Wear and brings Grant and POrz off the bench...let the rooks start and play

And I'm interested in French Louie. (Louie the 14th?)

once the Knicks get good. Hope he shows improvement, because last year was not pretty.

but I hear the Knicks are thinking of trading for Kobe. OMG, I hope they don't do this without signing him to an extension first...

In comment 12360144 bceagle05 said:

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once the Knicks get good. Hope he shows improvement, because last year was not pretty.

He's lowkey a very key guy for this year and the future. Knicks need some of these young guys to come out of no where and surprise.

.

In comment 12360105 DanMetroMan said:

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In comment 12360101 Pep22 said: Quote: Man, that's an ugly #. He wants to wear 6 but is deferring to Wear at this point.

In comment 12360151 Semipro Lineman said:

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but I hear the Knicks are thinking of trading for Kobe. OMG, I hope they don't do this without signing him to an extension first...

In comment 12360112 EricNY33 said:

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In comment 12360074 giantsfan44ab said: Quote: In comment 12360068 nygiants16 said: Quote: what i am saying is i am not sure he is going to be THE guy on his team, i am not sure he has it in him to say ok guys follow me Fortunately for him he has Wiggins on his team, so I don't think that burden is put on him. I think we all agreed that none of the players in this draft were capable of being the guy. I think Towns could be the #2 on a second team and I see every other top pick from this draft as being the #3 guy at best. If Wiggins is leading the team the Wolves are in trouble.

Why? Guy at age 19 averaged 17, 5, and 2 on 44% and 31% shooting along with very solid defense. Also got better every month as the year went on including a 23, 6, and 4 line the last 10 ish games of the year.

Jury is still out but he definitely showed characteristics of being a star guy in a few years.

I'm surprised Knicks aren't looking at Dorell Wright. Career 38% 3pt shooter and is adequate defensively. Knicks need some shooters and a wing bench player so he'd be a great fit.

Tommy Dee ‏@ThomasCDee 26s26 seconds ago
Not sure about the specifics yet but David Lee to Boston is done. #NBA

In comment 12360216 Anakim said:

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Tommy Dee ‏@ThomasCDee 26s26 seconds ago Not sure about the specifics yet but David Lee to Boston is done. #NBA

Boston's situation is even more perplexing than Philly's. Doing a great job of accumulating assets but these "assets" end up becoming the marcus smart's, aver bradley's, and tyler zeller's of the league. They are banking on one of these late first rounders to become the next jimmy Butler at this point.

In comment 12360216 Anakim said:

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Tommy Dee ‏@ThomasCDee 26s26 seconds ago Not sure about the specifics yet but David Lee to Boston is done. #NBA

Ugh this would make me sick.

In comment 12360223 giantsfan44ab said:

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In comment 12360216 Anakim said: Quote: Tommy Dee ‏@ThomasCDee 26s26 seconds ago Not sure about the specifics yet but David Lee to Boston is done. #NBA Boston's situation is even more perplexing than Philly's. Doing a great job of accumulating assets but these "assets" end up becoming the marcus smart's, aver bradley's, and tyler zeller's of the league. They are banking on one of these late first rounders to become the next jimmy Butler at this point.

I think they were hoping one of the 1sts they acquired would turn into a top 5 pick, but they haven't gotten that lucky yet.

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 23s24 seconds ago
ESPN sources say that the Celtics have agreed to send Gerald Wallace to the Warriors for David Lee

In comment 12360227 Anakim said:

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Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 23s24 seconds ago ESPN sources say that the Celtics have agreed to send Gerald Wallace to the Warriors for David Lee

Probably don't get assets cuz its really only $5 million to the Celtics. David Lee is going to start for them whereas Wallace was doing jack shit. Probably saves GS around $20 million overall though.

for Lee to go to it had to be the Celtics, right?

the only other deals GS received involved them trading away a pick which is why they are just giving him away for a poor player like Wallace.

As noted that saves them 5 million this year and around 15 million more in taxes I think.

for the C's. There isn't a clear path to them drastically improving the team with a trade this year. There are very few available stars. But Lee over Wallace is a massive upgrade. Lee is still a good rebounder. Wallace is completely finished. If you have the money, might as well make the trade. It's still not a great team. But as we saw in the second half of last year, it's a competitive team. If you aren't going to tank, and they are too good at this point to truly tank, a guy like Lee makes sense for one year.

In comment 12360245 kash94 said:

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the only other deals GS received involved them trading away a pick which is why they are just giving him away for a poor player like Wallace. As noted that saves them 5 million this year and around 15 million more in taxes I think.

Could save more if they stretch Wallace. Barnes is their only significant FA next year and he's restricted. Speights would be the only other guy they'd need to re-sign. They have around $40 million to play with next year.

In comment 12360246 Pego61 said:

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for the C's. There isn't a clear path to them drastically improving the team with a trade this year. There are very few available stars. But Lee over Wallace is a massive upgrade. Lee is still a good rebounder. Wallace is completely finished. If you have the money, might as well make the trade. It's still not a great team. But as we saw in the second half of last year, it's a competitive team. If you aren't going to tank, and they are too good at this point to truly tank, a guy like Lee makes sense for one year.

He's essentially a Brandon Brass replacement. This team isn't that much different than last year. Rozier will just eat some of Smart/Thomas/Bradley minutes. Lee just replaces bass; a bit of an offensive upgrade but worse on defense.

an upgrade over Wallace. Odd trade as Lee is still probably going to be more productive than most, if not all, of Boston's current/young bigs. But he's old and gone in a year so why bring in a guy who's going to take their minutes?

but they also added Amir Johnson. Lee and Johnson over Bass and Wallace is a huge upgrade.

As presently constituted, the ceiling is about a 6 seed. But it's another case of accumulating assets. Lee is a better asset than Wallace. Eventually, Ainge is going to make a big trade. The roster has a bit of a logjam in certain areas. It's about figuring out who they can get that is an upgrade. The moment of hoping for the number one pick has passed for this team.

@sam_amick: As for stretch provision re: Wallace, option available to Warriors until Aug. 31. Could look to trade him for another cheaper deal b4 then.

@TheRealKingFish: Is there a way the Knicks can do this for Calderon? https://t.co/jfzNNbvFvw

@ZachLowe_NBA: @TheRealKingFish Yes.