JonC said, they may be using this to encourage the Giants to withdrawal the tender. It only helps him if he is a UFA (provided his hand injuries are not really bad).
Imagine JPP did not want the franchise tag to be looming over him and wanted out of it so he can play where he wants and get a long term deal there.
Step 1: Release reports of severe injury
Step 2: Hide in hospital leaking reports of injury from third party sources that you do not confirm or deny letting innuendo do its damage
Step 3: Do not let anyone from team see you and make them have no choice but to pull franchise tender making you a UFA
Step 4: Notify all teams that the injury was no where near as bad as reported, was over-exaggerated entirely but you were not prepared to make an official statement without clearance from doctors
Step 5: Get long term deal at team of choice
Let the Owa Odighizuwa and Damontre Moore era begin Â
Is telling me having the Giants pull the tender is exactly what JPP and his agent are trying to accomplish here by leaving the Giants in the dark.
And if/when the Giants do, you'll instantly hear how he may be ready for week 1 for whomever offers him the best long term deal.
sure sounds like it. it's still stupid on their part because burns are not your normal injury. too many variables like infection, the graft tearing, nerve issues.
by not signing the tender NYG can't put him on the NFI list and avoid paying him. So there's more than one reason to stay quiet, but it certainly serves to alienate.
I doubt that this is JPP plan to pull the tender Â
I think the situation is far worse than what his camp has been putting out is the issue. Basically local Miami media have been dismissing the whole it was a minor injury. I more incline to go with them since they broke the story to begin with. I'm sure they have sources at the hospital that guys like Schefter don't have who is probably getting his stuff from JPP's agent.
by not signing the tender NYG can't put him on the NFI list and avoid paying him. So there's more than one reason to stay quiet, but it certainly serves to alienate.
This. I think the injury and recovery time is far worse than being described.
I don't care what the technical strategy is or is not, Â
you send a contingent down to check on an employee and you are denied access, I'm withdrawing the tender whether it benefits me or not as an employer..
Let him be someone else's headache..I wouldn't lose sleep over what he may or may not do to us with another team..if he was that feared, he would have been given close to what he has asked for imo..
is a virtue.
He has no real leverage.
This is only a minor irritant. If he's injured seriously enough to keep him from playing, then you pull the plug.
If he can play, you use him this year as a one year expensive rental and then move on.
He only gains leverage if we react too quickly.
Pretty sure if they misrepresent the injury to the team Â
That the Giants would have a pretty good fraud case against the agent. Also the agent would be blowing any credibility he has with the entire league.
There is no way the Giants are going to drop the tender. That is losing something valuable for absolutely nothing.
This is just hurting JPP with the Giants for no good reason. JPP doesn't have to sign the tender, but failing to communicate is just stupid because it only creates bad blood.
Either it's bad enough that they're worried the Giants will pull the tender and he won't get that money from anyone or they want the Giants to pull the tender so someone else will sign him and he can get more money there.
The latter is probably more likely because I doubt it's so bad that they're worried he'll lose out entirely.
is a virtue.
He has no real leverage.
This is only a minor irritant. If he's injured seriously enough to keep him from playing, then you pull the plug.
If he can play, you use him this year as a one year expensive rental and then move on.
He only gains leverage if we react too quickly.
hey dorgan - stop making so much sense -- K
RE: I don't care what the technical strategy is or is not, Â
you send a contingent down to check on an employee and you are denied access, I'm withdrawing the tender whether it benefits me or not as an employer..
Let him be someone else's headache..I wouldn't lose sleep over what he may or may not do to us with another team..if he was that feared, he would have been given close to what he has asked for imo..
Technically, he's not currently an employee.
But I don't disagree with you on pulling the tender.
is a virtue.
He has no real leverage.
This is only a minor irritant. If he's injured seriously enough to keep him from playing, then you pull the plug.
If he can play, you use him this year as a one year expensive rental and then move on.
I'd be curious to know if between Ronnie Barnes' connections and Armstead's pals in Miami -- did they get enough info on this injury to make a decision and fly back to Newark ??
Maybe Ronnie knows a doctor down there or Jessie is friends with a ICU Nurse. They may have heard enough to call off this charade.
The real decision has to be made next week on the 15th.
RE: I don't care what the technical strategy is or is not, Â
you send a contingent down to check on an employee and you are denied access, I'm withdrawing the tender whether it benefits me or not as an employer..
Let him be someone else's headache..I wouldn't lose sleep over what he may or may not do to us with another team..if he was that feared, he would have been given close to what he has asked for imo..
thank you ... finally a blogger/fan with more than half a brain !
is biting off your nose to spite your face. You have absolutely nothing to gain by doing that. You don't have to pay him if he doesn't sign, and he can't shop around, go elsewhere and leave the Giants holding the bag. He can't sign the tender without the Giants knowing his condition, at that point you can make a decision in the best interest of the team. Withdrawing the tender would be foolish
JonC said, they may be using this to encourage the Giants to withdrawal the tender. It only helps him if he is a UFA (provided his hand injuries are not really bad).
Him and his camp are even dumber than we thought if they were really going for this angle. We know he didn't lose his hand or anything so there's zero chance of them pulling the offer just because they think "well, it MIGHT be really bad. Let's just pull the offer in case it is..." All the Giants have to do is wait a little longer.
In any event, this doesn't help JPP in future negotiations with any team unless his hand is perfectly fine.
is a shortsighted, foolish move and the Giants won't do that. Making a hasty, irrational decision on a franchise level defensive end without having ALL information would be an amateur move. JPP and his camp may be trying to play games and the team may be pissed off about it but until we know his condition, you don't just let a player like that walk (especially if it's not for cap reasons). Keep the franchise tag on him until he's forced to sign it or sit out the season.
is biting off your nose to spite your face. You have absolutely nothing to gain by doing that. You don't have to pay him if he doesn't sign, and he can't shop around, go elsewhere and leave the Giants holding the bag. He can't sign the tender without the Giants knowing his condition, at that point you can make a decision in the best interest of the team. Withdrawing the tender would be foolish
I don't if he can't sign the tender without the Giants' knowing his condition.
is a virtue.
He has no real leverage.
This is only a minor irritant. If he's injured seriously enough to keep him from playing, then you pull the plug.
If he can play, you use him this year as a one year expensive rental and then move on.
He only gains leverage if we react too quickly.
Coach normally I'd agree from a PRACTICAL standpoint..I almost always encourage patience as you know..But, when you shut out your employers (or their reps), that's another ballgame altogether..Imo
is biting off your nose to spite your face. You have absolutely nothing to gain by doing that. You don't have to pay him if he doesn't sign, and he can't shop around, go elsewhere and leave the Giants holding the bag. He can't sign the tender without the Giants knowing his condition, at that point you can make a decision in the best interest of the team. Withdrawing the tender would be foolish
hold the cards. He can only stall for so long and if he keeps refusing, the Giants can claim he is intentionally trying to hide the extent of his injuries and can seek a remedy to that.
Bottom line is the Giants should not make any move until they can evaluate him.
@AdamSchefter
Worth noting JPP never signed franchise tender, thus he is not under contract to Giants. Team showed up in Florida, but not welcomed there.
I get that he wants a megadeal. No issue with his thought process.
Money aside for a moment, he's about to get a chance to play in what is already known, by Spags' words himself, to be an aggressive defense with the D Line attacking and getting upfield. JPP seems to be the kind of guy who does best when he can just pin his ears back and get at it, so this is tailor-made for him to have that big year. I'd think he'd be in the offensive backfield all year. Regardless of if he wants to stay a Giant, this season would be a huge blank check for him to write after the year. Someone in his camp isn't thinking about this the right way.
It's quite obvious just by him not allowing them to visit. He will get signed within a day or two once that tag is rescinded and someone will give him more than the 60 million the Giants were offering.
I think his hand is fine and he knows it, but the Giants do not and by not visiting with them they must be steaming and he knows that.
JonC, just curious: if he doesn't sign, how would he get paid anyway? Â
than I would have JPP even before this happened. Now, I would expect him to be a lousy player in 2015. I wouldn't want him here even with the knowledge that he'd walk after the season. I'd rather have the $15 million.
hold the cards. He can only stall for so long and if he keeps refusing, the Giants can claim he is intentionally trying to hide the extent of his injuries and can seek a remedy to that.
Bottom line is the Giants should not make any move until they can evaluate him.
is biting off your nose to spite your face. You have absolutely nothing to gain by doing that. You don't have to pay him if he doesn't sign, and he can't shop around, go elsewhere and leave the Giants holding the bag. He can't sign the tender without the Giants knowing his condition, at that point you can make a decision in the best interest of the team. Withdrawing the tender would be foolish
I don't if he can't sign the tender without the Giants' knowing his condition.
Mara, Reese and Coughlin have been around the block a time or two - they're not gonna be hoodwinked by some 26-year-old stunod and his brainless entourage.
I get that he wants a megadeal. No issue with his thought process.
Money aside for a moment, he's about to get a chance to play in what is already known, by Spags' words himself, to be an aggressive defense with the D Line attacking and getting upfield. JPP seems to be the kind of guy who does best when he can just pin his ears back and get at it, so this is tailor-made for him to have that big year. I'd think he'd be in the offensive backfield all year. Regardless of if he wants to stay a Giant, this season would be a huge blank check for him to write after the year. Someone in his camp isn't thinking about this the right way.
you can't put money aside tho. JPP is trying to cash out, period. and here's his chance
The vaunted Giant orginaztion made to look like fools. Â
@AdamSchefter
Worth noting JPP never signed franchise tender, thus he is not under contract to Giants. Team showed up in Florida, but not welcomed there.
What a scumbag. When he finds the time and is ready to sign the tender, that is when you pull it. This guy is garbage.
is a virtue.
He has no real leverage.
This is only a minor irritant. If he's injured seriously enough to keep him from playing, then you pull the plug.
If he can play, you use him this year as a one year expensive rental and then move on.
He only gains leverage if we react too quickly.
Coach normally I'd agree from a PRACTICAL standpoint..I almost always encourage patience as you know..But, when you shut out your employers (or their reps), that's another ballgame altogether..Imo
You pull the offer, you're doing exactly what he wants you to do.
When a player acts like a whore, you treat them like one.
Rent her, pay her, then throw her out.
since the Giants now know it is one of two things going on:
1) He wants out of the team and is trying to get the Giants to pull the tender
2) His hand is seriously fucked
Either way, it is far from brilliant when this now means the Giants hold all the leverage. All he's done with this stunt is stall because the Giants are certainly not going to pull the tender until they evaluate teh injury or have intimate knowledge on what the injury is.
is a virtue.
He has no real leverage.
This is only a minor irritant. If he's injured seriously enough to keep him from playing, then you pull the plug.
If he can play, you use him this year as a one year expensive rental and then move on.
He only gains leverage if we react too quickly.
Coach normally I'd agree from a PRACTICAL standpoint..I almost always encourage patience as you know..But, when you shut out your employers (or their reps), that's another ballgame altogether..Imo
You pull the offer, you're doing exactly what he wants you to do.
When a player acts like a whore, you treat them like one.
Rent her, pay her, then throw her out.
Completely agree, but this whore ain't worth $15 million.
Like the guy said, he wouldn't get paid until he signs it. So his camp plays this game and tries to force NYG to pull the tender, at either they do or hold firm and he signs it last minute. He's not skipping the payday, even if it means one more season with NYG, and NYG holds the leverage as long as they stay cool.
RE: The vaunted Giant orginaztion made to look like fools. Â
Imagine JPP did not want the franchise tag to be looming over him and wanted out of it so he can play where he wants and get a long term deal there.
Step 1: Release reports of severe injury
Step 2: Hide in hospital leaking reports of injury from third party sources that you do not confirm or deny letting innuendo do its damage
Step 3: Do not let anyone from team see you and make them have no choice but to pull franchise tender making you a UFA
Step 4: Notify all teams that the injury was no where near as bad as reported, was over-exaggerated entirely but you were not prepared to make an official statement without clearance from doctors
Step 5: Get long term deal at team of choice
This is overthinking the situation by a astronomical amount.
The Giants do not need cap space- they signed all their draft picks, there are few FAs out there worth a major contract, and JPP's contract is already added into the cap pool. In short, there is NO need to take ANY action by the Giants.
In fact, the Giants best course of action is to simply do nothing, and continue to give information to the media that puts pressure on JPP's people to come clean.
For all those moaning about how other teams would "line up" to pay JPP- a simple answer- NOT. GOING. TO. HAPPEN.
First, only a couple teams even have decent cap space at this point in the off-season.
Second, guys like Jake Long who are injured and still quality players but will be ready sometime in the upcoming season, do not have teams beating down the door with big offers in hand. Why? Simple- because they are INJURED and NOT READY NOW.
Third- when this guy has demonstrated on a consistent basis that he is a complete knucklehead (hazing teammates by forceably throwing them in tubs of ice water, showing up badly out of shape, holding out when new coaches are hired and not learning the new system, now this fireworks problem)- WHY is any other team going to throw good money after a guy who has clearly demonstrated that he makes bad decisions over and over and apparently has a problem with his entourage not keeping him on the straight and narrow with tens of millions of dollars at stake? Is he suddenly going to straighten up when he gets GUARANTEED money, when he has consistently made poor decisions when getting rookie chump change? No- and no team is going to give massive dollars in July/August, or even September.
The Giants have ALL of the leverage here. They do not need to do a thing- JPP doesn't get paid unless he signs that tender offer. When he does, they can put him on the non-football injury list until they deem him ready. We have a poster on this site who apparently had a similar injury and made clear it was MONTHS before he could be back to normal- with camp opening WEEKS from now. JPP isn't coming off that NFI list regardless of the games he and his agent play until he can prove the hand is healthy. That isn't going to happen for a LONG time.
The Giants are playing this right- just keep turning the PR screws to JPP and his agent, wait for them to come clean on what happened and do NOTHING about his contract or the tender offer. In the meantime, JPP is costing himself a LOT of money in FA by the day- the other teams are watching too and seeing that they are going to have a VERY hard time trusting JPP and his handlers to keep himself game ready- and are going to ding him accordingly in their evaluations.
since the Giants now know it is one of two things going on:
1) He wants out of the team and is trying to get the Giants to pull the tender
2) His hand is seriously fucked
Either way, it is far from brilliant when this now means the Giants hold all the leverage. All he's done with this stunt is stall because the Giants are certainly not going to pull the tender until they evaluate teh injury or have intimate knowledge on what the injury is.
First, if he is seriously hurt it makes no sense to turn the Giants away. The Giants would ensure he gets the best care possible as they sure have more and better resources than the facility he is at. They WANT and NEED him to play for them and will do everything they can to get him healthy as fast as possible. They aren't trying to get out of not paying him. There is nobody left to spend that money on anyway.
Second, the Giants will make him pass a physical before he signs the franchise tag, so he has to show them at some point. Why delay this? He isn't getting paid until he signs the tender anyway, so he is sort of delaying the inevitable.
Third, the Giants are known as a class organization that takes care of its players. So there should not be a strong level of distrust when it comes to the Giants organization.
Therefore, it makes sense he is using this as a tactic to get the Giants to withdraw the offer. But he is an idiot because the Giants have no reason to withdraw it. If he can't play they don't pay him. And if he does play, he needs to play well in order to get paid for his next contract. So all he is doing is making himself look like a real idiot and borderline asshole in this process.
Like the guy said, he wouldn't get paid until he signs it. So his camp plays this game and tries to force NYG to pull the tender, at either they do or hold firm and he signs it last minute. He's not skipping the payday, even if it means one more season with NYG, and NYG holds the leverage as long as they stay cool.
since the Giants now know it is one of two things going on:
1) He wants out of the team and is trying to get the Giants to pull the tender
2) His hand is seriously fucked
Either way, it is far from brilliant when this now means the Giants hold all the leverage. All he's done with this stunt is stall because the Giants are certainly not going to pull the tender until they evaluate teh injury or have intimate knowledge on what the injury is.
however, the Giants actually don't know anything
He could have a severe case of the shits, in which case this is all a ploy and his hands are fine. Either way, he is making an attempt to have the Giants look like fools. His agents must be a real sleaze.
is by changing their business position. If they get emotional they'll do something stupid. I would expect that John Mara with his experience and background knows exactly what to say and do. Say we hope he gets well we care about him as person and then make a non emotional business decision when the time requires it. Now is the time to just sit and wait with no changes.
I can't remember a situation like this ever occurring before. An injured player refusing to communicate with the team? he technically isn't under contract so they don't have a leg to stand on. It's his personal medical status in question. I'm certain privacy rights will protect his position.
I wonder if hiring a PI to ascertain medical information would be deemed an illegal invasion of his rights? You would think so and it's probably not worth the potential backlash if caught.
time for our jelly fish GM to take a stand and cut bait. Bye Bye JPP. Be careful not to hurt your hands doing cart wheels.
Which would be doing him a favor. THEN you're a fool.
You need to understand that this guy wasn't worth $15million to begin with so what's the favor. And now with the damage inflicted both physically and organizationally he ain't worth $5 bucks. Its time to move on from this charade training camp is upon us. everyone is acting as if this guy has been a superior DE for 4 seasons. I don't get it. Lets give the money to real football men like Prince and Eli.
no love or respect to the organization that has made him, and to his fans ... FUCK HEEEEEEEEEEM !
He is garbage. They drafted him, made him a millionare, and he was going to get $15 million this year before this act of buffoonery. I said it yesterday - this guy is dog shit, yet I was berated. What a difference a day makes around here.
The Giants are a calm, thoughtful organization...in this Â
instance, being that way is exactly what is needed. The Giants will not overreact although one wonders why he would want to leave the Giants.
At any rate, I think the Giants will just let this play out and after a week from today, JPP has no leverage. He must play out the year with the Giants and will certainly have to play and play well to get the big money deal he or his agent are seeking.
To my mind, this is his last year with the Giants unless he is absolutely dominant. We can go 6-10 without him just as easily. Not sure who mentioned it...might have been JonC but he is absolutely alienating everyone in the Giants organization, teammates included, I would guess.
also, maybe he feels a little disrespted as well. I mean, lets say he is seriously hurt. where's coach C? where's spags? where's Mara?
how about sending people down there to check on the actual human and see how he's doing. not just send the medical staff to check on their "investment"
is a selfish idiot. the giants should pull the tender, cut bait and spend the money on players that are hungry and know how to avoid f***ng firecrackers. JPP is not LT, Strahan, Tuck or even Keith Hamilton....he's a hot and cold player, who occasionally flashes, but consistently disappears. he hasn't shown that he can be a leader on this team.
I've been saying this for how long now? On the field he doesn't play hard when he doesn't feel like it. He's been injured, he gives full effort only when he feels like it. He's honestly overrated by many. So many of his stats come against very weak OLT and I didn't think he deserved close to what he wanted long before any of this crap.
Factor this bullshit into it and he's gone. He won't be a Giant after this year. The only question will be if he plays for the Giants at all this year. Even if he did, I doubt he even fucking tries. Screw this guy.
I highly doubt they are trying to get the Giants to pull the tag Â
also, maybe he feels a little disrespted as well. I mean, lets say he is seriously hurt. where's coach C? where's spags? where's Mara?
how about sending people down there to check on the actual human and see how he's doing. not just send the medical staff to check on their "investment"
Barnes has been meeting with JPP throughout this off-season in Miami and just visited the facility a couple of weeks ago. He is close with Armstead and he turned him away as well. He has not been avoiding the Giants personnel at all until July 5, 2015. Come on now.
Mara, Reese and Coughlin have been around the block a time or two - they're not gonna be hoodwinked by some 26-year-old stunod and his brainless entourage.
I have not heard that word "stunod" in a long time. Made me LoL thank you sir !
the Giants have no need to act like a scorned girlfriend and make an emotional decision by pulling the FT. Idiot or not, he is our best defensive player. If we happen to be in the playoff mix later in the season, having a healthy JPP can only help us. Let him hide out until he is ready to talk. Let his agent play games. He won't get paid until he comes to the Giants. The team holds all the leverage here and has zero need to rush this.
also, maybe he feels a little disrespted as well. I mean, lets say he is seriously hurt. where's coach C? where's spags? where's Mara?
how about sending people down there to check on the actual human and see how he's doing. not just send the medical staff to check on their "investment"
That's a really weird way to look at it.
Ronnie Barnes has a personal relationship with all these guys. I'm not sure why you'd frame it like they just sent some random guy to check for a pulse. Did you want the entire team to go?
RE: I didn't want JPP resigned in the first place Â
I've been saying this for how long now? On the field he doesn't play hard when he doesn't feel like it. He's been injured, he gives full effort only when he feels like it. He's honestly overrated by many. So many of his stats come against very weak OLT and I didn't think he deserved close to what he wanted long before any of this crap.
Factor this bullshit into it and he's gone. He won't be a Giant after this year. The only question will be if he plays for the Giants at all this year. Even if he did, I doubt he even fucking tries. Screw this guy.
That's bullshit. Guy plays the run all year long, barely takes a play off.
Any knee jerk reaction would be a mistake. They are monetarily protected by the NFI clause. It's true their cap dollars are tied up in red tape as long as the tender is offered but if this is gamesmanship and they get 'played' they'll have a target on their backs for every huckster agent and posse in business.
I don't have much to add that hasn't been already said on here -- I am in agreement that Giants Management should just wait this out.
My assumption is this is an injury that will keep him out at least a handful of games this year. As such, he is hoping to not get shelved until Week 7 and lose out on $900k per game.
The silence, however, is really damaging JPP. The longer he stays quiet, the more opportunity Management has to shape the news story in a matter that favors the organization and paints JPP as an immature child. The only way that does not become a narrative (further than it may already be), is if he indeed has a extremely serious injury and the long term results were unknown at the time of Management's visit.
Would be to see him go and end up on a div. rival's line. All of them would benefit greatly from him, and are built to get pressure from enough other points that he could viably have a return to form.
But yeah, this feels pretty crappy. What a bummer
JPP has ruined his "good will" value to the NY area Â
I have to believe the Giant ownership & management aren't too happy right now. Barnes traveled all that way and took the time to wait and see JPP only to be snubbed.
The message is clear: either JPP wants out or he is hiding the extent of the injury until the initial healing takes place and he knows no infection has taken place. Those are my educated guesses.
Bottom line: he has lost his "good will" with the Giants and I think the fans with this event. I just don't see teams giving him huge money given he had only 7 solid games down the stretch and was basically a shell of himself 2012 and 2013.
My friend Mike has met JPP a few times. After the Seattle game in particular, JPP told my friend Mike that the team "quit" and gave up in the 2nd half....and Mike took his sentiment to mean he too quit.
This could be a blessing a disguise. I mean, I wanted him to have a very good season and help the team and all but if he was planning to leave anyway well then maybe we can use the money we allocated to him on Prince and Eli. Just a shame we didn't outright let him walk after the year as we'd have gotten a 3rd round comp pick for him, I'm sure.
Oh well, I'm guessing by Friday or something JPP's camp may put out some info as I'm sure they are realizing bad press is now being posted all over which does not help his marketing credibility.
The Giants were good to JPP. They paid him and stood by him. This response with Barnes and the team just doesn't bode well for JPP and a future contract not only with the Giants but with anyone else for that matter.
So JPP and his "team" have been all secretive about the incident and his condition.
Isn't time for someone from Giants organization to hit the podium and provide some explanation of exactly what they know at this point? My guess is that they probably have some idea of what's going on with him.
I understand they might not have too much information but is it really asking too much for someone from the Giants hierarchy (almost 5 days removed from incident now) to make a public statement about what's going on?
If we don't get an update from the organization by the end of today, its almost as conspicuous as Pierre-Pauls's silence.
I don't know what course of action the team could take.... Â
I have to believe the Giant ownership & management aren't too happy right now. Barnes traveled all that way and took the time to wait and see JPP only to be snubbed.
The message is clear: either JPP wants out or he is hiding the extent of the injury until the initial healing takes place and he knows no infection has taken place. Those are my educated guesses.
Bottom line: he has lost his "good will" with the Giants and I think the fans with this event. I just don't see teams giving him huge money given he had only 7 solid games down the stretch and was basically a shell of himself 2012 and 2013.
My friend Mike has met JPP a few times. After the Seattle game in particular, JPP told my friend Mike that the team "quit" and gave up in the 2nd half....and Mike took his sentiment to mean he too quit.
This could be a blessing a disguise. I mean, I wanted him to have a very good season and help the team and all but if he was planning to leave anyway well then maybe we can use the money we allocated to him on Prince and Eli. Just a shame we didn't outright let him walk after the year as we'd have gotten a 3rd round comp pick for him, I'm sure.
Oh well, I'm guessing by Friday or something JPP's camp may put out some info as I'm sure they are realizing bad press is now being posted all over which does not help his marketing credibility.
The Giants were good to JPP. They paid him and stood by him. This response with Barnes and the team just doesn't bode well for JPP and a future contract not only with the Giants but with anyone else for that matter.
That is how I see it.
I said after 2013 that we should consider trading him. And franchising him was obviously an error.
So JPP and his "team" have been all secretive about the incident and his condition.
Isn't time for someone from Giants organization to hit the podium and provide some explanation of exactly what they know at this point? My guess is that they probably have some idea of what's going on with him.
I understand they might not have too much information but is it really asking too much for someone from the Giants hierarchy (almost 5 days removed from incident now) to make a public statement about what's going on?
If we don't get an update from the organization by the end of today, its almost as conspicuous as Pierre-Pauls's silence.
I doubt the Giants know anything more than we do so what could they say? A public statement by them now would just make JPP look worse and they have no need to alienate JPP at this point. JPP is doing enough to alienate himself from the team and his fans now. They should just sit back and wait and keep the ball in JPP's court.
he will be traded to another team……which will resign him to a Long Term Deal, ala Shockey. We should get a 3 and a 5 for him. That's if you can actually trade a Franchise Tagged player.
RE: There's no positive or optimistic way to spin this. Â
As was pointed out yesterday - as soon as he signs tender Giants can do whatever they want with JPP. such as putting him on the NFi and keeping him from playing first 6 games which will cost him millions of dollars.
It is in JPP 's best internet to sign his tender when he is ready to play
since he won't be under contract - there is nothing that the Giants can do
Until this moment , it is not in JPP's interest nor it is his obligation to give the GIants any information which will inform any decisions for the upcoming season.
So JPP and his "team" have been all secretive about the incident and his condition.
Isn't time for someone from Giants organization to hit the podium and provide some explanation of exactly what they know at this point? My guess is that they probably have some idea of what's going on with him.
I understand they might not have too much information but is it really asking too much for someone from the Giants hierarchy (almost 5 days removed from incident now) to make a public statement about what's going on?
If we don't get an update from the organization by the end of today, its almost as conspicuous as Pierre-Pauls's silence.
How would that benefit the Giants?
Sating the fan's curiosity is not a priority and could actually prove harmful during a negotiation process, so what am I missing?
Mara, Reese and Coughlin have been around the block a time or two - they're not gonna be hoodwinked by some 26-year-old stunod and his brainless entourage.
happens if he doesn't sign the tender by July 15th? Can the Giants or him get an extension? Does he have to sit out the season?
The Giants have until then to withdraw the tender. I think he has till September 1 to sign it. Otherwise he would have to sit out.
The July 15th deadline has nothing to do with the tender. The 15th is the last day they can negotiate/sign a multi-year extension. After the 15th, all he can do is sign the tender up until the start of the season. The tender can be revoked at anytime at which time he becomes an UFA.
So JPP and his "team" have been all secretive about the incident and his condition.
Isn't time for someone from Giants organization to hit the podium and provide some explanation of exactly what they know at this point? My guess is that they probably have some idea of what's going on with him.
I understand they might not have too much information but is it really asking too much for someone from the Giants hierarchy (almost 5 days removed from incident now) to make a public statement about what's going on?
If we don't get an update from the organization by the end of today, its almost as conspicuous as Pierre-Pauls's silence.
He's not under contract. He's not their employee. They may have little or no solid information beyond what is in the press, which is mostly rumor. So what would that press conference look like?
"We're here today to talk about a player who's not under contract to us, so we actually can't talk about him. And since he's not under contract to us, and his reps haven't updated us with official medical reports and haven't allowed our medical personnel to examine the player or his records, we have no good information about his medical condition, other than that he remains hospitalized.
"I'll take questions, but the answer to all questions about JPP will either be 'I don't know' or 'I can't talk about that.' I can, however, discuss why we haven't brought back the red jerseys."
RE: Not sure how many teams have 15 million to spend? Â
There are some teams that have the money. Jaguars, Titans, Bucs, Bengals, Browns, Raiders. There are reasons these teams have that much space.
Not sure how smart the agent is if he is trying to get the Giants to pull offer.
Recognize that a team signing JPP does not have to have 15 million under the cap. They could structure a new contract that will count a lot less than 15 million this year. If he was a UFA.
I don't think he is hurt worse than has been reported. Â
If he had been, why turn the Giants' medical staff away and risk having them pull the tender? If he is hurt badly nobody is going to give him the longer term, big money contract he wants with a mangled hand. His only chance to get paid this year other than by signing the FT is to sign a new deal, and that's can't happen without a physical.
My guess is that he did this since he is not under contract to the Giants and therefore is under no obligation to be looked over by their doctors, and he hopes that they pull the FT and he can negotiate a long term deal with another team since his injury isn't career threatening.
The 7/15 deadline is irrelevant. It's the deadline for a tagged player to sign any contract besides the Tender offer. And no such contract is on the table right now.
The Player can hold off on signing the Tender offer for as long as he wants to, excepting that if he remains unsigned past Week 10, that year doesn't count for his FA rights and the team can hold him to the same contract in the following year.
Do any of you actually think the Giants are flying back Â
not knowing the situation? This is the NFL, they have ways to obtain info. There are way too many people in and out of a hospital room to keep the situation completely under wraps.
The Giants know what is going on, they may play dumb to protect their source, but they know.
My guess, based on the first reports, is he is hurt really bad and is just trying (poorly) to hold on to what little salary he can.
not knowing the situation? This is the NFL, they have ways to obtain info. There are way too many people in and out of a hospital room to keep the situation completely under wraps.
The Giants know what is going on, they may play dumb to protect their source, but they know.
My guess, based on the first reports, is he is hurt really bad and is just trying (poorly) to hold on to what little salary he can.
Armstead was with Barnes and Miami is hometown. Pretty sure that was one of the reasons why he was with Barnes.
RE: Do any of you actually think the Giants are flying back Â
not knowing the situation? This is the NFL, they have ways to obtain info. There are way too many people in and out of a hospital room to keep the situation completely under wraps.
The Giants know what is going on, they may play dumb to protect their source, but they know.
My guess, based on the first reports, is he is hurt really bad and is just trying (poorly) to hold on to what little salary he can.
You are probably right. Plus, this would be the best scenario for the Giants. (knowing the truth about the injury while JPP's side not knowing that the Giants know the truth). Having information that the other side does not know you have CAN help in many negotiations. In this instance it can be a huge benefit to the Giants. That being said, I think it is not good that JPP's agent would not let the Giants inspect the merchandise.
the Giants know exactly what the situation is with the injury, which makes JPP's antics even more idiotic.
He's getting bad advice, plain and simple. The team has no motivation to pull the tender and these latest actions give them even less motivation to do so.
At this point, JPP is only creating a divide here.
If he had been, why turn the Giants' medical staff away and risk having them pull the tender? If he is hurt badly nobody is going to give him the longer term, big money contract he wants with a mangled hand. His only chance to get paid this year other than by signing the FT is to sign a new deal, and that's can't happen without a physical.
My guess is that he did this since he is not under contract to the Giants and therefore is under no obligation to be looked over by their doctors, and he hopes that they pull the FT and he can negotiate a long term deal with another team since his injury isn't career threatening.
Your logic makes no sense. JPP has been in touch the with the Giants throughout the off-season. He was just at the facility with the trainers and his teammates. Going over Spags playbooks. So you think he just out of the blue on July 5 changed his own stance and just coincidentally had this accident to now have them pull the tender?
is that we know nothing. everything is on the table, from 2 hands blown off to severe burns on his hands. he wouldve been kicked out of the hospital if he didnt have legit injuries. so we are looking at 3rd-4th degree burns at a minimum. so start from there and lets take it worse. we also know that there is no way in hell he will likely lift an upperbody weight till sometime in august at this point. lot of things going poorly here...
So JPP and his "team" have been all secretive about the incident and his condition.
Isn't time for someone from Giants organization to hit the podium and provide some explanation of exactly what they know at this point? My guess is that they probably have some idea of what's going on with him.
I understand they might not have too much information but is it really asking too much for someone from the Giants hierarchy (almost 5 days removed from incident now) to make a public statement about what's going on?
If we don't get an update from the organization by the end of today, its almost as conspicuous as Pierre-Pauls's silence.
He's not under contract. He's not their employee. They may have little or no solid information beyond what is in the press, which is mostly rumor. So what would that press conference look like?
"We're here today to talk about a player who's not under contract to us, so we actually can't talk about him. And since he's not under contract to us, and his reps haven't updated us with official medical reports and haven't allowed our medical personnel to examine the player or his records, we have no good information about his medical condition, other than that he remains hospitalized.
"I'll take questions, but the answer to all questions about JPP will either be 'I don't know' or 'I can't talk about that.' I can, however, discuss why we haven't brought back the red jerseys."
or farther south than it already has, I would trade him before I pulled the tender. Trade him to an AFC team. No way I'd take the chance he winds up the division and I wouldn't let him decide where he goes.
the Giants know exactly what the situation is with the injury, which makes JPP's antics even more idiotic.
He's getting bad advice, plain and simple. The team has no motivation to pull the tender and these latest actions give them even less motivation to do so.
At this point, JPP is only creating a divide here.
I completely see that line of thinking, and it makes sense to me except for one thing. What motivation do the Giants have to keep JPP at this point? Do we even want him playing at all this season given that he's likely to be a poor player in 2015 after all of this?
If the current circumstances stay in place (tender remains, he doesn't sign) do the Giants still get that $15 million in cap space? To me that space has more value than having JPP as a player in 2015 does.
didn't see JPP. that doesn't mean the JPP camp hasn't apprised the Giants of the situation.
Is Barnes some burn specialist? what good would it do him to see JPP? take off the bandages and say, yep that looks like a skin graph (pun intended)?
It could be a bad harbinger, or maybe it's just the Giants keeping mum after being fully apprised, and reporters just looking to stir up shit.
He's not a burn specialist, but he's ostensibly smart enough, experienced enough, to ask the right questions of the medical personnel at the hospital..
Even if he can heal in 3 months and was instantly available, thats week 7 anyway, so if he signs the tender and is NFI'd 900K/game gives the team 5.4M, and likely up to 3-4M to sign a vet for whatever position, DE, or Mathis for OL,or wherever they feel the need.
I think this whole situation is not sitting well w/Giants, as player-friendly an organization as there is/they are, and will constantly be looking back at him with a jaundiced eye.
Yes there is a fear of him going someplace like a division opponent, but you have to take care of yourself first to improve then whatever it is, it is.
Personally, I lean to a goodbye, but maybe he would be the LT, the roamer, in the Spags system.
I don't know what the ramification are to the cap space to make an educated opinion.
If tehy can get the $15M in cap space, I'd still want them to keep the tender active until they know what's going on so he doesn't hoodwink them and go to a division rival, even if it might work out that he'll play poorly.
I don't know what the ramification are to the cap space to make an educated opinion.
If tehy can get the $15M in cap space, I'd still want them to keep the tender active until they know what's going on so he doesn't hoodwink them and go to a division rival, even if it might work out that he'll play poorly.
At this point I'd welcome him going to a division rival. Even if he's a decent player somewhere else, he won't be worth the contract he gets. Net negative in the long run.
At this point there is no DE on his level available.... Â
Next yr you move on no matter how he performs...maybe you tag him again just to trade him and get a pick. Trade him to the worst team making an offer....
RE: At this point there is no DE on his level available.... Â
You keep the tender and ride it out...until you know more
Next yr you move on no matter how he performs...maybe you tag him again just to trade him and get a pick. Trade him to the worst team making the best offer....
Next yr you move on no matter how he performs...maybe you tag him again just to trade him and get a pick. Trade him to the worst team making an offer....
At this point I'd welcome him going to a division rival. Even if he's a decent player somewhere else, he won't be worth the contract he gets. Net negative in the long run.
I guess my stance is that we'd be unlikely to get $15M in value from a similar player, so why not wait and get what we can in return?
If he keeps dicking around, we retain his rights and I'm sure we could shop him for something. The caveat is that if we could get a decent resource with the cap money saved from him, I'd be for going that route.
RE: I don't care what the technical strategy is or is not, Â
you send a contingent down to check on an employee and you are denied access, I'm withdrawing the tender whether it benefits me or not as an employer..
Let him be someone else's headache..I wouldn't lose sleep over what he may or may not do to us with another team..if he was that feared, he would have been given close to what he has asked for imo..
100% correct. Plus, if he actually had is in need of skin grafts, the is out of commission for a while. he won't be able to use his hand to work out for several weeks. He won't be able to put pressure on his hand for several weeks. I don't see any way he would be ready for the start of the season.
Sure, they only pay him for the games he is ready. But, the full tender counts against the cap. With the numbers crunch Eric was alluding to in terms of getting to a 53 man roster, there is no need to hold on to him.
Unless the Giants had firm evidence that he wasn't playing this year (or ever)?
I doubt the entire report of the injury is false, but it appears the agent is trying to get the Giants to pull the tender and allow JPP to become unrestricted. Again, why would the Giants do that without looking at his hand(s)?
RE: RE: I don't think he is hurt worse than has been reported. Â
Your logic makes no sense. JPP has been in touch the with the Giants throughout the off-season. He was just at the facility with the trainers and his teammates. Going over Spags playbooks. So you think he just out of the blue on July 5 changed his own stance and just coincidentally had this accident to now have them pull the tender?
No I did not suggest the accident and injury are coincidental. I was responding to the fact that some posters were speculating that he was hurt worse than was let on, and that was why he did not want the Giants looking at his hand (so they would pull the tender and he could become a free agent). I suggested that if he were hurt badly, becoming a free agent does him no good since no team would sign him to a long term contract with a badly damaged hand.
Like it or not, he is not in the same negotiating position today that he was on July 3rd. He likely lost his ability to get a long term deal from the Giants.
I'm with the crowd that this is just the agents ploy, to get NYG to Â
Is that this is the Giants we are talking about. They don't tolerate this shit with their stars. If it was the Cowboys or Raiders I could see it but the Giants are the most old-school by the book franchise around.
1) No shot of any kind of long term deal with JPP. Mara has already put the kabosh on that.
2) The Giants will use the tag only as far as it benefits them. They are reluctant to use it to begin with. They value loyalty and gladly give plenty of loyalty in return.
Add it up and it's as simple as 2 + 2 = none of us will ever see JPP in a Giants uniform again.
Not to toot my own horn but the second this news broke I started saying it and nobody believed me. It's over - RING DA DAMN BELL!
maybe Barnes did talk with the doctors. the twitter said Barnes didn't see JPP. Everyone is assuming that means Barnes went home without having learned anything either through proper channels or not.
IMO, it may be the equivalent of Player X hasn't been contacted by the team, but somehow a contract is hammered out the next day. maybe Player X wasn't contacted, but his agent was. One of my favorite memories of camp get togethers in Albany, besides meeting other BBIers, was the time SOTI told us there'd been no contact between Strahan and the Giants. a day or two later, a new contract was announced.
and his agent are not cooperating with the Giants on this issue. Not a good sign for his future here, or for our defensive season next year. The agent will try and get him the best deal he can under the circumstances, as he should. This leaves us holding the bag. Think he is history and we are screwed.
Wan't there information from I. Rappaport on NFL.com that both the Giants and JPP are not ruling out playing in week 1.
No one from the Giants staff have even seen JPP how in the world could they rule on anything. National media have been made to look foolish taking everything from JPP camp.
have you seen our injury list the last few years? Â
some of the guys commenting on this thread handle business-related decisions in real life. The jump to conclusions game would be great for some of you guys. Maybe you'd calm down a bit and think.
The Giants hold the cards here - they wait it out. There's no emotion, no hate, no anger. Disappointment - possibly. But JPP is being advised to keep a lid on everything and see how the Giants react. The Giants' are calling JPPs bluff.
Either way, I suspect this will end worse for JPP than it will for the Giants.
are using this as a way out of the Franchise Tag and becoming a FA. If he was trying to protect himself against a pulled offer he would have signed it as soon as he could. Not allowing the Giants to see him could be forcing their hand or at least trying to.
There is a possibility the agent has had previous talks with teams and knows what there offer is compared to the Giants offer. Its not just limited to the teams that have cap space now, if a team wants him they will find a way.
This is all speculation on my part but if they are not happy with the Giants offer then they can try anything. Plus since JPP is not sighed he is under no obligation to the Giants to share his medical info. The NFL cant do anything about that. Thats my 2 cents.
some of the guys commenting on this thread handle business-related decisions in real life. The jump to conclusions game would be great for some of you guys. Maybe you'd calm down a bit and think.
The Giants hold the cards here - they wait it out. There's no emotion, no hate, no anger. Disappointment - possibly. But JPP is being advised to keep a lid on everything and see how the Giants react. The Giants' are calling JPPs bluff.
Either way, I suspect this will end worse for JPP than it will for the Giants.
That's my take as well. People need to take a step back and realize there is so much unknown and any decisions made today would be without all of the information, AKA, fans are generally stupid.
The Giants are going to wait as long as it takes and that's what they should be doing. There isn't a DE market out there to spend money on, there isn't a draft next week to take a DE round 1, there isn't anything to do other than wait and see.
They talked about the situation and Osi and JPP have exchanged messages and JPP told Osi everything will be fine. Russillo asked Osi why do you think JPP wont allow contact with Giants and Osi said in his mind, if it were him in that situation the only reason he'd do that would be to try and force the Giants to make him a FA. Osi also said he wouldn't do that. Too much of a risk.
There is a possibility the agent has had previous talks with teams and knows what there offer is compared to the Giants offer. Its not just limited to the teams that have cap space now, if a team wants him they will find a way.
Not sure that wouldn't fall into the category of tampering. I guess it would depend on whether having a franchise tag on the table means the Giants still have exclusive rights
They talked about the situation and Osi and JPP have exchanged messages and JPP told Osi everything will be fine. Russillo asked Osi why do you think JPP wont allow contact with Giants and Osi said in his mind, if it were him in that situation the only reason he'd do that would be to try and force the Giants to make him a FA. Osi also said he wouldn't do that. Too much of a risk.
I'm sure everything will be fine for JPP.................................eventually.
But this season, with skin grafts involved, is going to be a wasted year I fear. I think we'd be lucky to see him by Thanksgiving.
At this point I'd welcome him going to a division rival. Even if he's a decent player somewhere else, he won't be worth the contract he gets. Net negative in the long run.
I guess my stance is that we'd be unlikely to get $15M in value from a similar player, so why not wait and get what we can in return?
If he keeps dicking around, we retain his rights and I'm sure we could shop him for something. The caveat is that if we could get a decent resource with the cap money saved from him, I'd be for going that route.
There's no reason to necessarily spend that cap space in 2015. Rolling it into 2016 sends a fine option to me.
There's no doubt this is a case of trying to make the best of a bad situation. But potentially counting on JPP to play for them (even if he's healthy enough week 1 seems suboptimal to me. I just don't expect him to be any good at all.
I don't have much to add that hasn't been said already Â
But it's really frustrating to invest in a team and pay this kind of money for season tickets to see a star act the way JPP has through this situation. It's bad enough that he got hurt he way he did, but now to keep everything from the team and the fans, that part really bothers me
It's a baffling decision to treat the team as persona non grata Â
To me JPP not allowing the them to see him means one thing, his injury is serious and he doesn't want Giants to be aware of serious it is. If an employee came to you offering 15mil and you stop them at the door, it's because you don't want them to know how bad your injury is and lose out on tons of money.
If the Giants pull the offer and JPP hits the open market there is no way he gets 15 mil for next year elsewhere, considering no one knows how severe the injury is right now.
legally, I don't think the doctors could have talked to Barnes.
Likely not, unless given consent by JPP. However, from what I'm getting from reading and hearing this "leaving Fl without seeing him" is that Barnes and staff didn't see JPP at all not just to examine or question him or see how he's doing. Question I have is why? There's no clear cut answers people are giving. Just strange
and possibly possibly 50-70 million if he can never play again.
He could be depressed and not want to see anyone
well that is a new theory, he is depressed that he never going to be able to play or something similar. Forget the Giants, for JPP and his sake, I hope that is not true.
is that there is a trust issue between JPP and the Giants.With everything that's gone on over the years,I'm not surprised.But people are too pissed off at Pierre Paul,combined with a blame the player first attitude, to see it any other way.
Rescinding the offer goes both ways - it is just as conceivable a team can sign him for a cap friendly short term deal with guaranteed money on premise they redo his deal in a year.
That becomes minimal risk for other teams. Are you telling me no team would offer a 3 yr 18-20M deal, all guaranteed. Teams just did it for 1st rd picks w/zero track record
They talked about the situation and Osi and JPP have exchanged [text] messages and JPP told Osi everything will be fine.
Wait, you mean JPP can text on his phone? So his hands aren't so bad after all. LOL jk but, yes, truly a clusterfu_kz
If and when it comes to the point that JPP's camp emerges from their self-imposed blackout, and he says he wants to sign his FT, Giants administer a physical--which can not be deemed complete without reviewing the records of treatment, if treatment there has been.
The status of $$ committed to the FT after the cut-off date but for the 2015 season is an interesting one.
Giants officials have come and gone from S. Florida without getting chance to visit the injured JPP, per sources. Made trip, never visited.
no, no there is not.
if so, this is unconscionable imo
T?
F???
His hands are not in great shape.
Just Plain Pathetic
Let him go. He's good, but he's not indispensable. Save the money.
And if/when the Giants do, you'll instantly hear how he may be ready for week 1 for whomever offers him the best long term deal.
And if/when the Giants do, you'll instantly hear how he may be ready for week 1 for whomever offers him the best long term deal.
Danny, I have a hunch you are not far off.
Step 1: Release reports of severe injury
Step 2: Hide in hospital leaking reports of injury from third party sources that you do not confirm or deny letting innuendo do its damage
Step 3: Do not let anyone from team see you and make them have no choice but to pull franchise tender making you a UFA
Step 4: Notify all teams that the injury was no where near as bad as reported, was over-exaggerated entirely but you were not prepared to make an official statement without clearance from doctors
Step 5: Get long term deal at team of choice
And if/when the Giants do, you'll instantly hear how he may be ready for week 1 for whomever offers him the best long term deal.
It's not a bad guess, but if you can see thru it, I'd bet the Giants can too. Who the hell is his agent?
Quote:
no can do unless you're prepared to just let him go.
Let him go. He's good, but he's not indispensable. Save the money.
They might want to hold his rights and try to trade him first.
And if/when the Giants do, you'll instantly hear how he may be ready for week 1 for whomever offers him the best long term deal.
sure sounds like it. it's still stupid on their part because burns are not your normal injury. too many variables like infection, the graft tearing, nerve issues.
This. I think the injury and recovery time is far worse than being described.
Let him be someone else's headache..I wouldn't lose sleep over what he may or may not do to us with another team..if he was that feared, he would have been given close to what he has asked for imo..
He has no real leverage.
This is only a minor irritant. If he's injured seriously enough to keep him from playing, then you pull the plug.
If he can play, you use him this year as a one year expensive rental and then move on.
He only gains leverage if we react too quickly.
There is no way the Giants are going to drop the tender. That is losing something valuable for absolutely nothing.
This is just hurting JPP with the Giants for no good reason. JPP doesn't have to sign the tender, but failing to communicate is just stupid because it only creates bad blood.
Either it's bad enough that they're worried the Giants will pull the tender and he won't get that money from anyone or they want the Giants to pull the tender so someone else will sign him and he can get more money there.
The latter is probably more likely because I doubt it's so bad that they're worried he'll lose out entirely.
He has no real leverage.
This is only a minor irritant. If he's injured seriously enough to keep him from playing, then you pull the plug.
If he can play, you use him this year as a one year expensive rental and then move on.
He only gains leverage if we react too quickly.
hey dorgan - stop making so much sense -- K
Let him be someone else's headache..I wouldn't lose sleep over what he may or may not do to us with another team..if he was that feared, he would have been given close to what he has asked for imo..
Technically, he's not currently an employee.
But I don't disagree with you on pulling the tender.
Quote:
Is telling me having the Giants pull the tender is exactly what JPP and his agent are trying to accomplish here by leaving the Giants in the dark.
And if/when the Giants do, you'll instantly hear how he may be ready for week 1 for whomever offers him the best long term deal.
Danny, I have a hunch you are not far off.
If that's his game then I'd go as far as to say he already has an offer and knows what team he's going to.
Either way, this act makes him an ungrateful dirt-bag that doesn't have enough class to be a NYG!
And if/when the Giants do, you'll instantly hear how he may be ready for week 1 for whomever offers him the best long term deal.
are there really that many teams with significant cap room to offer him a big contract at this point?
Quote:
is a virtue.
He has no real leverage.
This is only a minor irritant. If he's injured seriously enough to keep him from playing, then you pull the plug.
If he can play, you use him this year as a one year expensive rental and then move on.
He only gains leverage if we react too quickly.
hey dorgan - stop making so much sense -- K
Sorry.
I forgot where I was.
Maybe Ronnie knows a doctor down there or Jessie is friends with a ICU Nurse. They may have heard enough to call off this charade.
The real decision has to be made next week on the 15th.
Let him be someone else's headache..I wouldn't lose sleep over what he may or may not do to us with another team..if he was that feared, he would have been given close to what he has asked for imo..
thank you ... finally a blogger/fan with more than half a brain !
Him and his camp are even dumber than we thought if they were really going for this angle. We know he didn't lose his hand or anything so there's zero chance of them pulling the offer just because they think "well, it MIGHT be really bad. Let's just pull the offer in case it is..." All the Giants have to do is wait a little longer.
In any event, this doesn't help JPP in future negotiations with any team unless his hand is perfectly fine.
I don't if he can't sign the tender without the Giants' knowing his condition.
He has no real leverage.
This is only a minor irritant. If he's injured seriously enough to keep him from playing, then you pull the plug.
If he can play, you use him this year as a one year expensive rental and then move on.
He only gains leverage if we react too quickly.
Coach normally I'd agree from a PRACTICAL standpoint..I almost always encourage patience as you know..But, when you shut out your employers (or their reps), that's another ballgame altogether..Imo
Exactly.
Bottom line is the Giants should not make any move until they can evaluate him.
Worth noting JPP never signed franchise tender, thus he is not under contract to Giants. Team showed up in Florida, but not welcomed there.
Money aside for a moment, he's about to get a chance to play in what is already known, by Spags' words himself, to be an aggressive defense with the D Line attacking and getting upfield. JPP seems to be the kind of guy who does best when he can just pin his ears back and get at it, so this is tailor-made for him to have that big year. I'd think he'd be in the offensive backfield all year. Regardless of if he wants to stay a Giant, this season would be a huge blank check for him to write after the year. Someone in his camp isn't thinking about this the right way.
GMEN are pro's. Whatever they do I'm ok with
I think his hand is fine and he knows it, but the Giants do not and by not visiting with them they must be steaming and he knows that.
Bottom line is the Giants should not make any move until they can evaluate him.
I agree. Screw him.
Quote:
is biting off your nose to spite your face. You have absolutely nothing to gain by doing that. You don't have to pay him if he doesn't sign, and he can't shop around, go elsewhere and leave the Giants holding the bag. He can't sign the tender without the Giants knowing his condition, at that point you can make a decision in the best interest of the team. Withdrawing the tender would be foolish
I don't if he can't sign the tender without the Giants' knowing his condition.
Do you think they'll mail it to him?
Victor his contract is prorated to the day he signs
He wouldn't get paid until he signed.
Money aside for a moment, he's about to get a chance to play in what is already known, by Spags' words himself, to be an aggressive defense with the D Line attacking and getting upfield. JPP seems to be the kind of guy who does best when he can just pin his ears back and get at it, so this is tailor-made for him to have that big year. I'd think he'd be in the offensive backfield all year. Regardless of if he wants to stay a Giant, this season would be a huge blank check for him to write after the year. Someone in his camp isn't thinking about this the right way.
you can't put money aside tho. JPP is trying to cash out, period. and here's his chance
Worth noting JPP never signed franchise tender, thus he is not under contract to Giants. Team showed up in Florida, but not welcomed there.
What a scumbag. When he finds the time and is ready to sign the tender, that is when you pull it. This guy is garbage.
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is a virtue.
He has no real leverage.
This is only a minor irritant. If he's injured seriously enough to keep him from playing, then you pull the plug.
If he can play, you use him this year as a one year expensive rental and then move on.
He only gains leverage if we react too quickly.
Coach normally I'd agree from a PRACTICAL standpoint..I almost always encourage patience as you know..But, when you shut out your employers (or their reps), that's another ballgame altogether..Imo
You pull the offer, you're doing exactly what he wants you to do.
When a player acts like a whore, you treat them like one.
Rent her, pay her, then throw her out.
1) He wants out of the team and is trying to get the Giants to pull the tender
2) His hand is seriously fucked
Either way, it is far from brilliant when this now means the Giants hold all the leverage. All he's done with this stunt is stall because the Giants are certainly not going to pull the tender until they evaluate teh injury or have intimate knowledge on what the injury is.
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In comment 12361836 dorgan said:
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is a virtue.
He has no real leverage.
This is only a minor irritant. If he's injured seriously enough to keep him from playing, then you pull the plug.
If he can play, you use him this year as a one year expensive rental and then move on.
He only gains leverage if we react too quickly.
Coach normally I'd agree from a PRACTICAL standpoint..I almost always encourage patience as you know..But, when you shut out your employers (or their reps), that's another ballgame altogether..Imo
You pull the offer, you're doing exactly what he wants you to do.
When a player acts like a whore, you treat them like one.
Rent her, pay her, then throw her out.
Completely agree, but this whore ain't worth $15 million.
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this is a brilliant ploy by his agent for JPP to become a free agent.
And a great way for his agent to alienate the other teams in the NFL, if it's known using these tactics are the way he does business.
nah. it doesn't work that way. agents use tactics all the time.
Which would be doing him a favor. THEN you're a fool.
Step 1: Release reports of severe injury
Step 2: Hide in hospital leaking reports of injury from third party sources that you do not confirm or deny letting innuendo do its damage
Step 3: Do not let anyone from team see you and make them have no choice but to pull franchise tender making you a UFA
Step 4: Notify all teams that the injury was no where near as bad as reported, was over-exaggerated entirely but you were not prepared to make an official statement without clearance from doctors
Step 5: Get long term deal at team of choice
This is overthinking the situation by a astronomical amount.
The Giants do not need cap space- they signed all their draft picks, there are few FAs out there worth a major contract, and JPP's contract is already added into the cap pool. In short, there is NO need to take ANY action by the Giants.
In fact, the Giants best course of action is to simply do nothing, and continue to give information to the media that puts pressure on JPP's people to come clean.
For all those moaning about how other teams would "line up" to pay JPP- a simple answer- NOT. GOING. TO. HAPPEN.
First, only a couple teams even have decent cap space at this point in the off-season.
Second, guys like Jake Long who are injured and still quality players but will be ready sometime in the upcoming season, do not have teams beating down the door with big offers in hand. Why? Simple- because they are INJURED and NOT READY NOW.
Third- when this guy has demonstrated on a consistent basis that he is a complete knucklehead (hazing teammates by forceably throwing them in tubs of ice water, showing up badly out of shape, holding out when new coaches are hired and not learning the new system, now this fireworks problem)- WHY is any other team going to throw good money after a guy who has clearly demonstrated that he makes bad decisions over and over and apparently has a problem with his entourage not keeping him on the straight and narrow with tens of millions of dollars at stake? Is he suddenly going to straighten up when he gets GUARANTEED money, when he has consistently made poor decisions when getting rookie chump change? No- and no team is going to give massive dollars in July/August, or even September.
The Giants have ALL of the leverage here. They do not need to do a thing- JPP doesn't get paid unless he signs that tender offer. When he does, they can put him on the non-football injury list until they deem him ready. We have a poster on this site who apparently had a similar injury and made clear it was MONTHS before he could be back to normal- with camp opening WEEKS from now. JPP isn't coming off that NFI list regardless of the games he and his agent play until he can prove the hand is healthy. That isn't going to happen for a LONG time.
The Giants are playing this right- just keep turning the PR screws to JPP and his agent, wait for them to come clean on what happened and do NOTHING about his contract or the tender offer. In the meantime, JPP is costing himself a LOT of money in FA by the day- the other teams are watching too and seeing that they are going to have a VERY hard time trusting JPP and his handlers to keep himself game ready- and are going to ding him accordingly in their evaluations.
Just relax and get some popcorn.
1) He wants out of the team and is trying to get the Giants to pull the tender
2) His hand is seriously fucked
Either way, it is far from brilliant when this now means the Giants hold all the leverage. All he's done with this stunt is stall because the Giants are certainly not going to pull the tender until they evaluate teh injury or have intimate knowledge on what the injury is.
however, the Giants actually don't know anything
Second, the Giants will make him pass a physical before he signs the franchise tag, so he has to show them at some point. Why delay this? He isn't getting paid until he signs the tender anyway, so he is sort of delaying the inevitable.
Third, the Giants are known as a class organization that takes care of its players. So there should not be a strong level of distrust when it comes to the Giants organization.
Therefore, it makes sense he is using this as a tactic to get the Giants to withdraw the offer. But he is an idiot because the Giants have no reason to withdraw it. If he can't play they don't pay him. And if he does play, he needs to play well in order to get paid for his next contract. So all he is doing is making himself look like a real idiot and borderline asshole in this process.
Thanks Jon and others who replied.
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since the Giants now know it is one of two things going on:
1) He wants out of the team and is trying to get the Giants to pull the tender
2) His hand is seriously fucked
Either way, it is far from brilliant when this now means the Giants hold all the leverage. All he's done with this stunt is stall because the Giants are certainly not going to pull the tender until they evaluate teh injury or have intimate knowledge on what the injury is.
however, the Giants actually don't know anything
He could have a severe case of the shits, in which case this is all a ploy and his hands are fine. Either way, he is making an attempt to have the Giants look like fools. His agents must be a real sleaze.
Usually the simplest explanation is the correct one.
Well they certainly aren't now, without knowing how many fingers he has
I wonder if hiring a PI to ascertain medical information would be deemed an illegal invasion of his rights? You would think so and it's probably not worth the potential backlash if caught.
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time for our jelly fish GM to take a stand and cut bait. Bye Bye JPP. Be careful not to hurt your hands doing cart wheels.
Which would be doing him a favor. THEN you're a fool.
You need to understand that this guy wasn't worth $15million to begin with so what's the favor. And now with the damage inflicted both physically and organizationally he ain't worth $5 bucks. Its time to move on from this charade training camp is upon us. everyone is acting as if this guy has been a superior DE for 4 seasons. I don't get it. Lets give the money to real football men like Prince and Eli.
He is garbage. They drafted him, made him a millionare, and he was going to get $15 million this year before this act of buffoonery. I said it yesterday - this guy is dog shit, yet I was berated. What a difference a day makes around here.
At any rate, I think the Giants will just let this play out and after a week from today, JPP has no leverage. He must play out the year with the Giants and will certainly have to play and play well to get the big money deal he or his agent are seeking.
To my mind, this is his last year with the Giants unless he is absolutely dominant. We can go 6-10 without him just as easily. Not sure who mentioned it...might have been JonC but he is absolutely alienating everyone in the Giants organization, teammates included, I would guess.
how about sending people down there to check on the actual human and see how he's doing. not just send the medical staff to check on their "investment"
Not sure how smart the agent is if he is trying to get the Giants to pull offer.
Factor this bullshit into it and he's gone. He won't be a Giant after this year. The only question will be if he plays for the Giants at all this year. Even if he did, I doubt he even fucking tries. Screw this guy.
For that to be true the hospital would have to be in cahoots and is just holding him there as a favor
how about sending people down there to check on the actual human and see how he's doing. not just send the medical staff to check on their "investment"
Barnes has been meeting with JPP throughout this off-season in Miami and just visited the facility a couple of weeks ago. He is close with Armstead and he turned him away as well. He has not been avoiding the Giants personnel at all until July 5, 2015. Come on now.
Ya, I am starting to think this is his agent playing games. Its unbelievable.
I think that JPP will not be in Giant blue again.
I have not heard that word "stunod" in a long time. Made me LoL thank you sir !
how about sending people down there to check on the actual human and see how he's doing. not just send the medical staff to check on their "investment"
That's a really weird way to look at it.
Ronnie Barnes has a personal relationship with all these guys. I'm not sure why you'd frame it like they just sent some random guy to check for a pulse. Did you want the entire team to go?
Factor this bullshit into it and he's gone. He won't be a Giant after this year. The only question will be if he plays for the Giants at all this year. Even if he did, I doubt he even fucking tries. Screw this guy.
That's bullshit. Guy plays the run all year long, barely takes a play off.
"You pull the offer, you're doing exactly what he wants you to do.
When a player acts like a whore, you treat them like one.
Rent her, pay her, then throw her out. "
My assumption is this is an injury that will keep him out at least a handful of games this year. As such, he is hoping to not get shelved until Week 7 and lose out on $900k per game.
The silence, however, is really damaging JPP. The longer he stays quiet, the more opportunity Management has to shape the news story in a matter that favors the organization and paints JPP as an immature child. The only way that does not become a narrative (further than it may already be), is if he indeed has a extremely serious injury and the long term results were unknown at the time of Management's visit.
But yeah, this feels pretty crappy. What a bummer
The message is clear: either JPP wants out or he is hiding the extent of the injury until the initial healing takes place and he knows no infection has taken place. Those are my educated guesses.
Bottom line: he has lost his "good will" with the Giants and I think the fans with this event. I just don't see teams giving him huge money given he had only 7 solid games down the stretch and was basically a shell of himself 2012 and 2013.
My friend Mike has met JPP a few times. After the Seattle game in particular, JPP told my friend Mike that the team "quit" and gave up in the 2nd half....and Mike took his sentiment to mean he too quit.
This could be a blessing a disguise. I mean, I wanted him to have a very good season and help the team and all but if he was planning to leave anyway well then maybe we can use the money we allocated to him on Prince and Eli. Just a shame we didn't outright let him walk after the year as we'd have gotten a 3rd round comp pick for him, I'm sure.
Oh well, I'm guessing by Friday or something JPP's camp may put out some info as I'm sure they are realizing bad press is now being posted all over which does not help his marketing credibility.
The Giants were good to JPP. They paid him and stood by him. This response with Barnes and the team just doesn't bode well for JPP and a future contract not only with the Giants but with anyone else for that matter.
That is how I see it.
Isn't time for someone from Giants organization to hit the podium and provide some explanation of exactly what they know at this point? My guess is that they probably have some idea of what's going on with him.
I understand they might not have too much information but is it really asking too much for someone from the Giants hierarchy (almost 5 days removed from incident now) to make a public statement about what's going on?
If we don't get an update from the organization by the end of today, its almost as conspicuous as Pierre-Pauls's silence.
The message is clear: either JPP wants out or he is hiding the extent of the injury until the initial healing takes place and he knows no infection has taken place. Those are my educated guesses.
Bottom line: he has lost his "good will" with the Giants and I think the fans with this event. I just don't see teams giving him huge money given he had only 7 solid games down the stretch and was basically a shell of himself 2012 and 2013.
My friend Mike has met JPP a few times. After the Seattle game in particular, JPP told my friend Mike that the team "quit" and gave up in the 2nd half....and Mike took his sentiment to mean he too quit.
This could be a blessing a disguise. I mean, I wanted him to have a very good season and help the team and all but if he was planning to leave anyway well then maybe we can use the money we allocated to him on Prince and Eli. Just a shame we didn't outright let him walk after the year as we'd have gotten a 3rd round comp pick for him, I'm sure.
Oh well, I'm guessing by Friday or something JPP's camp may put out some info as I'm sure they are realizing bad press is now being posted all over which does not help his marketing credibility.
The Giants were good to JPP. They paid him and stood by him. This response with Barnes and the team just doesn't bode well for JPP and a future contract not only with the Giants but with anyone else for that matter.
That is how I see it.
I said after 2013 that we should consider trading him. And franchising him was obviously an error.
Isn't time for someone from Giants organization to hit the podium and provide some explanation of exactly what they know at this point? My guess is that they probably have some idea of what's going on with him.
I understand they might not have too much information but is it really asking too much for someone from the Giants hierarchy (almost 5 days removed from incident now) to make a public statement about what's going on?
If we don't get an update from the organization by the end of today, its almost as conspicuous as Pierre-Pauls's silence.
I doubt the Giants know anything more than we do so what could they say? A public statement by them now would just make JPP look worse and they have no need to alienate JPP at this point. JPP is doing enough to alienate himself from the team and his fans now. They should just sit back and wait and keep the ball in JPP's court.
The Giants have until then to withdraw the tender. I think he has till September 1 to sign it. Otherwise he would have to sit out.
You would think..kinda concern they went there, stayed a couple days, and didn't see him if that was their plan
The space can be rolled over into 2016.
As was pointed out yesterday - as soon as he signs tender Giants can do whatever they want with JPP. such as putting him on the NFi and keeping him from playing first 6 games which will cost him millions of dollars.
It is in JPP 's best internet to sign his tender when he is ready to play
since he won't be under contract - there is nothing that the Giants can do
Until this moment , it is not in JPP's interest nor it is his obligation to give the GIants any information which will inform any decisions for the upcoming season.
when you are master of your domain, there is never a need to negotiate ...
I negotiated a hairy turn on the parkway the other day...does that qualify me?
Isn't time for someone from Giants organization to hit the podium and provide some explanation of exactly what they know at this point? My guess is that they probably have some idea of what's going on with him.
I understand they might not have too much information but is it really asking too much for someone from the Giants hierarchy (almost 5 days removed from incident now) to make a public statement about what's going on?
If we don't get an update from the organization by the end of today, its almost as conspicuous as Pierre-Pauls's silence.
How would that benefit the Giants?
Sating the fan's curiosity is not a priority and could actually prove harmful during a negotiation process, so what am I missing?
Dumb
Stupid
Idiotic
Selfish
A Scumbag
Immature
Lazy
Greedy
Am I missing any?
But, when he starts playing and gets a sack the same people will say that they were behind him all the way.
Racist !!
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happens if he doesn't sign the tender by July 15th? Can the Giants or him get an extension? Does he have to sit out the season?
The Giants have until then to withdraw the tender. I think he has till September 1 to sign it. Otherwise he would have to sit out.
The July 15th deadline has nothing to do with the tender. The 15th is the last day they can negotiate/sign a multi-year extension. After the 15th, all he can do is sign the tender up until the start of the season. The tender can be revoked at anytime at which time he becomes an UFA.
Isn't time for someone from Giants organization to hit the podium and provide some explanation of exactly what they know at this point? My guess is that they probably have some idea of what's going on with him.
I understand they might not have too much information but is it really asking too much for someone from the Giants hierarchy (almost 5 days removed from incident now) to make a public statement about what's going on?
If we don't get an update from the organization by the end of today, its almost as conspicuous as Pierre-Pauls's silence.
He's not under contract. He's not their employee. They may have little or no solid information beyond what is in the press, which is mostly rumor. So what would that press conference look like?
"We're here today to talk about a player who's not under contract to us, so we actually can't talk about him. And since he's not under contract to us, and his reps haven't updated us with official medical reports and haven't allowed our medical personnel to examine the player or his records, we have no good information about his medical condition, other than that he remains hospitalized.
"I'll take questions, but the answer to all questions about JPP will either be 'I don't know' or 'I can't talk about that.' I can, however, discuss why we haven't brought back the red jerseys."
Not sure how smart the agent is if he is trying to get the Giants to pull offer.
Recognize that a team signing JPP does not have to have 15 million under the cap. They could structure a new contract that will count a lot less than 15 million this year. If he was a UFA.
My guess is that he did this since he is not under contract to the Giants and therefore is under no obligation to be looked over by their doctors, and he hopes that they pull the FT and he can negotiate a long term deal with another team since his injury isn't career threatening.
The Player can hold off on signing the Tender offer for as long as he wants to, excepting that if he remains unsigned past Week 10, that year doesn't count for his FA rights and the team can hold him to the same contract in the following year.
The Giants know what is going on, they may play dumb to protect their source, but they know.
My guess, based on the first reports, is he is hurt really bad and is just trying (poorly) to hold on to what little salary he can.
The Giants know what is going on, they may play dumb to protect their source, but they know.
My guess, based on the first reports, is he is hurt really bad and is just trying (poorly) to hold on to what little salary he can.
Armstead was with Barnes and Miami is hometown. Pretty sure that was one of the reasons why he was with Barnes.
The Giants know what is going on, they may play dumb to protect their source, but they know.
My guess, based on the first reports, is he is hurt really bad and is just trying (poorly) to hold on to what little salary he can.
You are probably right. Plus, this would be the best scenario for the Giants. (knowing the truth about the injury while JPP's side not knowing that the Giants know the truth). Having information that the other side does not know you have CAN help in many negotiations. In this instance it can be a huge benefit to the Giants. That being said, I think it is not good that JPP's agent would not let the Giants inspect the merchandise.
He's getting bad advice, plain and simple. The team has no motivation to pull the tender and these latest actions give them even less motivation to do so.
At this point, JPP is only creating a divide here.
My guess is that he did this since he is not under contract to the Giants and therefore is under no obligation to be looked over by their doctors, and he hopes that they pull the FT and he can negotiate a long term deal with another team since his injury isn't career threatening.
Your logic makes no sense. JPP has been in touch the with the Giants throughout the off-season. He was just at the facility with the trainers and his teammates. Going over Spags playbooks. So you think he just out of the blue on July 5 changed his own stance and just coincidentally had this accident to now have them pull the tender?
Is Barnes some burn specialist? what good would it do him to see JPP? take off the bandages and say, yep that looks like a skin graph (pun intended)?
It could be a bad harbinger, or maybe it's just the Giants keeping mum after being fully apprised, and reporters just looking to stir up shit.
Is Barnes some burn specialist? what good would it do him to see JPP? take off the bandages and say, yep that looks like a skin graph (pun intended)?
It could be a bad harbinger, or maybe it's just the Giants keeping mum after being fully apprised, and reporters just looking to stir up shit.
Counting fingers? Just asking ;-)
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So JPP and his "team" have been all secretive about the incident and his condition.
Isn't time for someone from Giants organization to hit the podium and provide some explanation of exactly what they know at this point? My guess is that they probably have some idea of what's going on with him.
I understand they might not have too much information but is it really asking too much for someone from the Giants hierarchy (almost 5 days removed from incident now) to make a public statement about what's going on?
If we don't get an update from the organization by the end of today, its almost as conspicuous as Pierre-Pauls's silence.
He's not under contract. He's not their employee. They may have little or no solid information beyond what is in the press, which is mostly rumor. So what would that press conference look like?
"We're here today to talk about a player who's not under contract to us, so we actually can't talk about him. And since he's not under contract to us, and his reps haven't updated us with official medical reports and haven't allowed our medical personnel to examine the player or his records, we have no good information about his medical condition, other than that he remains hospitalized.
"I'll take questions, but the answer to all questions about JPP will either be 'I don't know' or 'I can't talk about that.' I can, however, discuss why we haven't brought back the red jerseys."
so you mean a normal Giants press conference? LOL
Is Barnes some burn specialist? what good would it do him to see JPP? take off the bandages and say, yep that looks like a skin graph (pun intended)?
It could be a bad harbinger, or maybe it's just the Giants keeping mum after being fully apprised, and reporters just looking to stir up shit.
Yeah, that's the ticket..
He's getting bad advice, plain and simple. The team has no motivation to pull the tender and these latest actions give them even less motivation to do so.
At this point, JPP is only creating a divide here.
I completely see that line of thinking, and it makes sense to me except for one thing. What motivation do the Giants have to keep JPP at this point? Do we even want him playing at all this season given that he's likely to be a poor player in 2015 after all of this?
If the current circumstances stay in place (tender remains, he doesn't sign) do the Giants still get that $15 million in cap space? To me that space has more value than having JPP as a player in 2015 does.
Is Barnes some burn specialist? what good would it do him to see JPP? take off the bandages and say, yep that looks like a skin graph (pun intended)?
It could be a bad harbinger, or maybe it's just the Giants keeping mum after being fully apprised, and reporters just looking to stir up shit.
He's not a burn specialist, but he's ostensibly smart enough, experienced enough, to ask the right questions of the medical personnel at the hospital..
If he is not at the hospital and they don't know where he is, that would explain why the Giants staff left Florida
I think this whole situation is not sitting well w/Giants, as player-friendly an organization as there is/they are, and will constantly be looking back at him with a jaundiced eye.
Yes there is a fear of him going someplace like a division opponent, but you have to take care of yourself first to improve then whatever it is, it is.
Personally, I lean to a goodbye, but maybe he would be the LT, the roamer, in the Spags system.
If tehy can get the $15M in cap space, I'd still want them to keep the tender active until they know what's going on so he doesn't hoodwink them and go to a division rival, even if it might work out that he'll play poorly.
If tehy can get the $15M in cap space, I'd still want them to keep the tender active until they know what's going on so he doesn't hoodwink them and go to a division rival, even if it might work out that he'll play poorly.
At this point I'd welcome him going to a division rival. Even if he's a decent player somewhere else, he won't be worth the contract he gets. Net negative in the long run.
Next yr you move on no matter how he performs...maybe you tag him again just to trade him and get a pick. Trade him to the worst team making an offer....
Next yr you move on no matter how he performs...maybe you tag him again just to trade him and get a pick. Trade him to the worst team making the best offer....
Next yr you move on no matter how he performs...maybe you tag him again just to trade him and get a pick. Trade him to the worst team making an offer....
This.
I guess my stance is that we'd be unlikely to get $15M in value from a similar player, so why not wait and get what we can in return?
If he keeps dicking around, we retain his rights and I'm sure we could shop him for something. The caveat is that if we could get a decent resource with the cap money saved from him, I'd be for going that route.
Let him be someone else's headache..I wouldn't lose sleep over what he may or may not do to us with another team..if he was that feared, he would have been given close to what he has asked for imo..
Sure, they only pay him for the games he is ready. But, the full tender counts against the cap. With the numbers crunch Eric was alluding to in terms of getting to a 53 man roster, there is no need to hold on to him.
I doubt the entire report of the injury is false, but it appears the agent is trying to get the Giants to pull the tender and allow JPP to become unrestricted. Again, why would the Giants do that without looking at his hand(s)?
Your logic makes no sense. JPP has been in touch the with the Giants throughout the off-season. He was just at the facility with the trainers and his teammates. Going over Spags playbooks. So you think he just out of the blue on July 5 changed his own stance and just coincidentally had this accident to now have them pull the tender?
No I did not suggest the accident and injury are coincidental. I was responding to the fact that some posters were speculating that he was hurt worse than was let on, and that was why he did not want the Giants looking at his hand (so they would pull the tender and he could become a free agent). I suggested that if he were hurt badly, becoming a free agent does him no good since no team would sign him to a long term contract with a badly damaged hand.
Like it or not, he is not in the same negotiating position today that he was on July 3rd. He likely lost his ability to get a long term deal from the Giants.
Or just a conspiracy to drive the Giants fan base nuts.
Take that BBI :)
Link - ( New Window )
I don't see anything in that link that even hints that is a picture of his hand. But if it is, holy shit!
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A picture of his hand warning graphic Link - ( New Window )
I don't see anything in that link that even hints that is a picture of his hand. But if it is, holy shit!
It's not his hand.
1) No shot of any kind of long term deal with JPP. Mara has already put the kabosh on that.
2) The Giants will use the tag only as far as it benefits them. They are reluctant to use it to begin with. They value loyalty and gladly give plenty of loyalty in return.
Add it up and it's as simple as 2 + 2 = none of us will ever see JPP in a Giants uniform again.
Not to toot my own horn but the second this news broke I started saying it and nobody believed me. It's over - RING DA DAMN BELL!
IMO, it may be the equivalent of Player X hasn't been contacted by the team, but somehow a contract is hammered out the next day. maybe Player X wasn't contacted, but his agent was. One of my favorite memories of camp get togethers in Albany, besides meeting other BBIers, was the time SOTI told us there'd been no contact between Strahan and the Giants. a day or two later, a new contract was announced.
Get all pumped for the season only to see one of the best players on the team blowing half his arm off and now this shit...
WTF...I give up
No one from the Giants staff have even seen JPP how in the world could they rule on anything. National media have been made to look foolish taking everything from JPP camp.
/sarcasm
The Giants hold the cards here - they wait it out. There's no emotion, no hate, no anger. Disappointment - possibly. But JPP is being advised to keep a lid on everything and see how the Giants react. The Giants' are calling JPPs bluff.
Either way, I suspect this will end worse for JPP than it will for the Giants.
There is a possibility the agent has had previous talks with teams and knows what there offer is compared to the Giants offer. Its not just limited to the teams that have cap space now, if a team wants him they will find a way.
This is all speculation on my part but if they are not happy with the Giants offer then they can try anything. Plus since JPP is not sighed he is under no obligation to the Giants to share his medical info. The NFL cant do anything about that. Thats my 2 cents.
The Giants hold the cards here - they wait it out. There's no emotion, no hate, no anger. Disappointment - possibly. But JPP is being advised to keep a lid on everything and see how the Giants react. The Giants' are calling JPPs bluff.
Either way, I suspect this will end worse for JPP than it will for the Giants.
That's my take as well. People need to take a step back and realize there is so much unknown and any decisions made today would be without all of the information, AKA, fans are generally stupid.
The Giants are going to wait as long as it takes and that's what they should be doing. There isn't a DE market out there to spend money on, there isn't a draft next week to take a DE round 1, there isn't anything to do other than wait and see.
Obviously not without JPP's consent, but if he wanted to keep the team in the loop he certainly could have given it.
There is a possibility the agent has had previous talks with teams and knows what there offer is compared to the Giants offer. Its not just limited to the teams that have cap space now, if a team wants him they will find a way.
Not sure that wouldn't fall into the category of tampering. I guess it would depend on whether having a franchise tag on the table means the Giants still have exclusive rights
I'll bet he sold him the fireworks too.
I'm sure everything will be fine for JPP.................................eventually.
But this season, with skin grafts involved, is going to be a wasted year I fear. I think we'd be lucky to see him by Thanksgiving.
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At this point I'd welcome him going to a division rival. Even if he's a decent player somewhere else, he won't be worth the contract he gets. Net negative in the long run.
I guess my stance is that we'd be unlikely to get $15M in value from a similar player, so why not wait and get what we can in return?
If he keeps dicking around, we retain his rights and I'm sure we could shop him for something. The caveat is that if we could get a decent resource with the cap money saved from him, I'd be for going that route.
There's no reason to necessarily spend that cap space in 2015. Rolling it into 2016 sends a fine option to me.
There's no doubt this is a case of trying to make the best of a bad situation. But potentially counting on JPP to play for them (even if he's healthy enough week 1 seems suboptimal to me. I just don't expect him to be any good at all.
If the Giants pull the offer and JPP hits the open market there is no way he gets 15 mil for next year elsewhere, considering no one knows how severe the injury is right now.
Is this from twitter or an article? link? This is crazy at this point, I'm almost done with the topic.
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is refusing the teams medical help as well. This dude is basically hiding. His hands must be completely fucked up.
Is this from twitter or an article? link? This is crazy at this point, I'm almost done with the topic.
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In comment 12362450 Rflairr said:
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is refusing the teams medical help as well. This dude is basically hiding. His hands must be completely fucked up.
Is this from twitter or an article? link? This is crazy at this point, I'm almost done with the topic.
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Thanks. What a clusterfuck.
Likely not, unless given consent by JPP. However, from what I'm getting from reading and hearing this "leaving Fl without seeing him" is that Barnes and staff didn't see JPP at all not just to examine or question him or see how he's doing. Question I have is why? There's no clear cut answers people are giving. Just strange
He could be depressed and not want to see anyone
He could be depressed and not want to see anyone
but adam schefter sounded so sure its not a career ender.
He could be depressed and not want to see anyone
well that is a new theory, he is depressed that he never going to be able to play or something similar. Forget the Giants, for JPP and his sake, I hope that is not true.
That becomes minimal risk for other teams. Are you telling me no team would offer a 3 yr 18-20M deal, all guaranteed. Teams just did it for 1st rd picks w/zero track record
Wait, you mean JPP can text on his phone? So his hands aren't so bad after all. LOL jk but, yes, truly a clusterfu_kz
If and when it comes to the point that JPP's camp emerges from their self-imposed blackout, and he says he wants to sign his FT, Giants administer a physical--which can not be deemed complete without reviewing the records of treatment, if treatment there has been.
The status of $$ committed to the FT after the cut-off date but for the 2015 season is an interesting one.