is a virtue.
He has no real leverage.
This is only a minor irritant. If he's injured seriously enough to keep him from playing, then you pull the plug.
If he can play, you use him this year as a one year expensive rental and then move on.
He only gains leverage if we react too quickly.
Coach normally I'd agree from a PRACTICAL standpoint..I almost always encourage patience as you know..But, when you shut out your employers (or their reps), that's another ballgame altogether..Imo
is biting off your nose to spite your face. You have absolutely nothing to gain by doing that. You don't have to pay him if he doesn't sign, and he can't shop around, go elsewhere and leave the Giants holding the bag. He can't sign the tender without the Giants knowing his condition, at that point you can make a decision in the best interest of the team. Withdrawing the tender would be foolish
hold the cards. He can only stall for so long and if he keeps refusing, the Giants can claim he is intentionally trying to hide the extent of his injuries and can seek a remedy to that.
Bottom line is the Giants should not make any move until they can evaluate him.
@AdamSchefter
Worth noting JPP never signed franchise tender, thus he is not under contract to Giants. Team showed up in Florida, but not welcomed there.
I get that he wants a megadeal. No issue with his thought process.
Money aside for a moment, he's about to get a chance to play in what is already known, by Spags' words himself, to be an aggressive defense with the D Line attacking and getting upfield. JPP seems to be the kind of guy who does best when he can just pin his ears back and get at it, so this is tailor-made for him to have that big year. I'd think he'd be in the offensive backfield all year. Regardless of if he wants to stay a Giant, this season would be a huge blank check for him to write after the year. Someone in his camp isn't thinking about this the right way.
It's quite obvious just by him not allowing them to visit. He will get signed within a day or two once that tag is rescinded and someone will give him more than the 60 million the Giants were offering.
I think his hand is fine and he knows it, but the Giants do not and by not visiting with them they must be steaming and he knows that.
JonC, just curious: if he doesn't sign, how would he get paid anyway? Â
than I would have JPP even before this happened. Now, I would expect him to be a lousy player in 2015. I wouldn't want him here even with the knowledge that he'd walk after the season. I'd rather have the $15 million.
hold the cards. He can only stall for so long and if he keeps refusing, the Giants can claim he is intentionally trying to hide the extent of his injuries and can seek a remedy to that.
Bottom line is the Giants should not make any move until they can evaluate him.
is biting off your nose to spite your face. You have absolutely nothing to gain by doing that. You don't have to pay him if he doesn't sign, and he can't shop around, go elsewhere and leave the Giants holding the bag. He can't sign the tender without the Giants knowing his condition, at that point you can make a decision in the best interest of the team. Withdrawing the tender would be foolish
I don't if he can't sign the tender without the Giants' knowing his condition.
Mara, Reese and Coughlin have been around the block a time or two - they're not gonna be hoodwinked by some 26-year-old stunod and his brainless entourage.
I get that he wants a megadeal. No issue with his thought process.
Money aside for a moment, he's about to get a chance to play in what is already known, by Spags' words himself, to be an aggressive defense with the D Line attacking and getting upfield. JPP seems to be the kind of guy who does best when he can just pin his ears back and get at it, so this is tailor-made for him to have that big year. I'd think he'd be in the offensive backfield all year. Regardless of if he wants to stay a Giant, this season would be a huge blank check for him to write after the year. Someone in his camp isn't thinking about this the right way.
you can't put money aside tho. JPP is trying to cash out, period. and here's his chance
The vaunted Giant orginaztion made to look like fools. Â
@AdamSchefter
Worth noting JPP never signed franchise tender, thus he is not under contract to Giants. Team showed up in Florida, but not welcomed there.
What a scumbag. When he finds the time and is ready to sign the tender, that is when you pull it. This guy is garbage.
is a virtue.
He has no real leverage.
This is only a minor irritant. If he's injured seriously enough to keep him from playing, then you pull the plug.
If he can play, you use him this year as a one year expensive rental and then move on.
He only gains leverage if we react too quickly.
Coach normally I'd agree from a PRACTICAL standpoint..I almost always encourage patience as you know..But, when you shut out your employers (or their reps), that's another ballgame altogether..Imo
You pull the offer, you're doing exactly what he wants you to do.
When a player acts like a whore, you treat them like one.
Rent her, pay her, then throw her out.
since the Giants now know it is one of two things going on:
1) He wants out of the team and is trying to get the Giants to pull the tender
2) His hand is seriously fucked
Either way, it is far from brilliant when this now means the Giants hold all the leverage. All he's done with this stunt is stall because the Giants are certainly not going to pull the tender until they evaluate teh injury or have intimate knowledge on what the injury is.
is a virtue.
He has no real leverage.
This is only a minor irritant. If he's injured seriously enough to keep him from playing, then you pull the plug.
If he can play, you use him this year as a one year expensive rental and then move on.
He only gains leverage if we react too quickly.
Coach normally I'd agree from a PRACTICAL standpoint..I almost always encourage patience as you know..But, when you shut out your employers (or their reps), that's another ballgame altogether..Imo
You pull the offer, you're doing exactly what he wants you to do.
When a player acts like a whore, you treat them like one.
Rent her, pay her, then throw her out.
Completely agree, but this whore ain't worth $15 million.
Like the guy said, he wouldn't get paid until he signs it. So his camp plays this game and tries to force NYG to pull the tender, at either they do or hold firm and he signs it last minute. He's not skipping the payday, even if it means one more season with NYG, and NYG holds the leverage as long as they stay cool.
RE: The vaunted Giant orginaztion made to look like fools. Â
Imagine JPP did not want the franchise tag to be looming over him and wanted out of it so he can play where he wants and get a long term deal there.
Step 1: Release reports of severe injury
Step 2: Hide in hospital leaking reports of injury from third party sources that you do not confirm or deny letting innuendo do its damage
Step 3: Do not let anyone from team see you and make them have no choice but to pull franchise tender making you a UFA
Step 4: Notify all teams that the injury was no where near as bad as reported, was over-exaggerated entirely but you were not prepared to make an official statement without clearance from doctors
Step 5: Get long term deal at team of choice
This is overthinking the situation by a astronomical amount.
The Giants do not need cap space- they signed all their draft picks, there are few FAs out there worth a major contract, and JPP's contract is already added into the cap pool. In short, there is NO need to take ANY action by the Giants.
In fact, the Giants best course of action is to simply do nothing, and continue to give information to the media that puts pressure on JPP's people to come clean.
For all those moaning about how other teams would "line up" to pay JPP- a simple answer- NOT. GOING. TO. HAPPEN.
First, only a couple teams even have decent cap space at this point in the off-season.
Second, guys like Jake Long who are injured and still quality players but will be ready sometime in the upcoming season, do not have teams beating down the door with big offers in hand. Why? Simple- because they are INJURED and NOT READY NOW.
Third- when this guy has demonstrated on a consistent basis that he is a complete knucklehead (hazing teammates by forceably throwing them in tubs of ice water, showing up badly out of shape, holding out when new coaches are hired and not learning the new system, now this fireworks problem)- WHY is any other team going to throw good money after a guy who has clearly demonstrated that he makes bad decisions over and over and apparently has a problem with his entourage not keeping him on the straight and narrow with tens of millions of dollars at stake? Is he suddenly going to straighten up when he gets GUARANTEED money, when he has consistently made poor decisions when getting rookie chump change? No- and no team is going to give massive dollars in July/August, or even September.
The Giants have ALL of the leverage here. They do not need to do a thing- JPP doesn't get paid unless he signs that tender offer. When he does, they can put him on the non-football injury list until they deem him ready. We have a poster on this site who apparently had a similar injury and made clear it was MONTHS before he could be back to normal- with camp opening WEEKS from now. JPP isn't coming off that NFI list regardless of the games he and his agent play until he can prove the hand is healthy. That isn't going to happen for a LONG time.
The Giants are playing this right- just keep turning the PR screws to JPP and his agent, wait for them to come clean on what happened and do NOTHING about his contract or the tender offer. In the meantime, JPP is costing himself a LOT of money in FA by the day- the other teams are watching too and seeing that they are going to have a VERY hard time trusting JPP and his handlers to keep himself game ready- and are going to ding him accordingly in their evaluations.
since the Giants now know it is one of two things going on:
1) He wants out of the team and is trying to get the Giants to pull the tender
2) His hand is seriously fucked
Either way, it is far from brilliant when this now means the Giants hold all the leverage. All he's done with this stunt is stall because the Giants are certainly not going to pull the tender until they evaluate teh injury or have intimate knowledge on what the injury is.
First, if he is seriously hurt it makes no sense to turn the Giants away. The Giants would ensure he gets the best care possible as they sure have more and better resources than the facility he is at. They WANT and NEED him to play for them and will do everything they can to get him healthy as fast as possible. They aren't trying to get out of not paying him. There is nobody left to spend that money on anyway.
Second, the Giants will make him pass a physical before he signs the franchise tag, so he has to show them at some point. Why delay this? He isn't getting paid until he signs the tender anyway, so he is sort of delaying the inevitable.
Third, the Giants are known as a class organization that takes care of its players. So there should not be a strong level of distrust when it comes to the Giants organization.
Therefore, it makes sense he is using this as a tactic to get the Giants to withdraw the offer. But he is an idiot because the Giants have no reason to withdraw it. If he can't play they don't pay him. And if he does play, he needs to play well in order to get paid for his next contract. So all he is doing is making himself look like a real idiot and borderline asshole in this process.
Like the guy said, he wouldn't get paid until he signs it. So his camp plays this game and tries to force NYG to pull the tender, at either they do or hold firm and he signs it last minute. He's not skipping the payday, even if it means one more season with NYG, and NYG holds the leverage as long as they stay cool.
since the Giants now know it is one of two things going on:
1) He wants out of the team and is trying to get the Giants to pull the tender
2) His hand is seriously fucked
Either way, it is far from brilliant when this now means the Giants hold all the leverage. All he's done with this stunt is stall because the Giants are certainly not going to pull the tender until they evaluate teh injury or have intimate knowledge on what the injury is.
however, the Giants actually don't know anything
He could have a severe case of the shits, in which case this is all a ploy and his hands are fine. Either way, he is making an attempt to have the Giants look like fools. His agents must be a real sleaze.
is by changing their business position. If they get emotional they'll do something stupid. I would expect that John Mara with his experience and background knows exactly what to say and do. Say we hope he gets well we care about him as person and then make a non emotional business decision when the time requires it. Now is the time to just sit and wait with no changes.
I can't remember a situation like this ever occurring before. An injured player refusing to communicate with the team? he technically isn't under contract so they don't have a leg to stand on. It's his personal medical status in question. I'm certain privacy rights will protect his position.
I wonder if hiring a PI to ascertain medical information would be deemed an illegal invasion of his rights? You would think so and it's probably not worth the potential backlash if caught.
time for our jelly fish GM to take a stand and cut bait. Bye Bye JPP. Be careful not to hurt your hands doing cart wheels.
Which would be doing him a favor. THEN you're a fool.
You need to understand that this guy wasn't worth $15million to begin with so what's the favor. And now with the damage inflicted both physically and organizationally he ain't worth $5 bucks. Its time to move on from this charade training camp is upon us. everyone is acting as if this guy has been a superior DE for 4 seasons. I don't get it. Lets give the money to real football men like Prince and Eli.
no love or respect to the organization that has made him, and to his fans ... FUCK HEEEEEEEEEEM !
He is garbage. They drafted him, made him a millionare, and he was going to get $15 million this year before this act of buffoonery. I said it yesterday - this guy is dog shit, yet I was berated. What a difference a day makes around here.
The Giants are a calm, thoughtful organization...in this Â
instance, being that way is exactly what is needed. The Giants will not overreact although one wonders why he would want to leave the Giants.
At any rate, I think the Giants will just let this play out and after a week from today, JPP has no leverage. He must play out the year with the Giants and will certainly have to play and play well to get the big money deal he or his agent are seeking.
To my mind, this is his last year with the Giants unless he is absolutely dominant. We can go 6-10 without him just as easily. Not sure who mentioned it...might have been JonC but he is absolutely alienating everyone in the Giants organization, teammates included, I would guess.
also, maybe he feels a little disrespted as well. I mean, lets say he is seriously hurt. where's coach C? where's spags? where's Mara?
how about sending people down there to check on the actual human and see how he's doing. not just send the medical staff to check on their "investment"
is a selfish idiot. the giants should pull the tender, cut bait and spend the money on players that are hungry and know how to avoid f***ng firecrackers. JPP is not LT, Strahan, Tuck or even Keith Hamilton....he's a hot and cold player, who occasionally flashes, but consistently disappears. he hasn't shown that he can be a leader on this team.
I've been saying this for how long now? On the field he doesn't play hard when he doesn't feel like it. He's been injured, he gives full effort only when he feels like it. He's honestly overrated by many. So many of his stats come against very weak OLT and I didn't think he deserved close to what he wanted long before any of this crap.
Factor this bullshit into it and he's gone. He won't be a Giant after this year. The only question will be if he plays for the Giants at all this year. Even if he did, I doubt he even fucking tries. Screw this guy.
I highly doubt they are trying to get the Giants to pull the tag Â
also, maybe he feels a little disrespted as well. I mean, lets say he is seriously hurt. where's coach C? where's spags? where's Mara?
how about sending people down there to check on the actual human and see how he's doing. not just send the medical staff to check on their "investment"
Barnes has been meeting with JPP throughout this off-season in Miami and just visited the facility a couple of weeks ago. He is close with Armstead and he turned him away as well. He has not been avoiding the Giants personnel at all until July 5, 2015. Come on now.
He has no real leverage.
This is only a minor irritant. If he's injured seriously enough to keep him from playing, then you pull the plug.
If he can play, you use him this year as a one year expensive rental and then move on.
He only gains leverage if we react too quickly.
Coach normally I'd agree from a PRACTICAL standpoint..I almost always encourage patience as you know..But, when you shut out your employers (or their reps), that's another ballgame altogether..Imo
Exactly.
Bottom line is the Giants should not make any move until they can evaluate him.
Worth noting JPP never signed franchise tender, thus he is not under contract to Giants. Team showed up in Florida, but not welcomed there.
Money aside for a moment, he's about to get a chance to play in what is already known, by Spags' words himself, to be an aggressive defense with the D Line attacking and getting upfield. JPP seems to be the kind of guy who does best when he can just pin his ears back and get at it, so this is tailor-made for him to have that big year. I'd think he'd be in the offensive backfield all year. Regardless of if he wants to stay a Giant, this season would be a huge blank check for him to write after the year. Someone in his camp isn't thinking about this the right way.
GMEN are pro's. Whatever they do I'm ok with
I think his hand is fine and he knows it, but the Giants do not and by not visiting with them they must be steaming and he knows that.
Bottom line is the Giants should not make any move until they can evaluate him.
I agree. Screw him.
Quote:
is biting off your nose to spite your face. You have absolutely nothing to gain by doing that. You don't have to pay him if he doesn't sign, and he can't shop around, go elsewhere and leave the Giants holding the bag. He can't sign the tender without the Giants knowing his condition, at that point you can make a decision in the best interest of the team. Withdrawing the tender would be foolish
I don't if he can't sign the tender without the Giants' knowing his condition.
Do you think they'll mail it to him?
Victor his contract is prorated to the day he signs
He wouldn't get paid until he signed.
Money aside for a moment, he's about to get a chance to play in what is already known, by Spags' words himself, to be an aggressive defense with the D Line attacking and getting upfield. JPP seems to be the kind of guy who does best when he can just pin his ears back and get at it, so this is tailor-made for him to have that big year. I'd think he'd be in the offensive backfield all year. Regardless of if he wants to stay a Giant, this season would be a huge blank check for him to write after the year. Someone in his camp isn't thinking about this the right way.
you can't put money aside tho. JPP is trying to cash out, period. and here's his chance
Worth noting JPP never signed franchise tender, thus he is not under contract to Giants. Team showed up in Florida, but not welcomed there.
What a scumbag. When he finds the time and is ready to sign the tender, that is when you pull it. This guy is garbage.
Quote:
is a virtue.
He has no real leverage.
This is only a minor irritant. If he's injured seriously enough to keep him from playing, then you pull the plug.
If he can play, you use him this year as a one year expensive rental and then move on.
He only gains leverage if we react too quickly.
Coach normally I'd agree from a PRACTICAL standpoint..I almost always encourage patience as you know..But, when you shut out your employers (or their reps), that's another ballgame altogether..Imo
You pull the offer, you're doing exactly what he wants you to do.
When a player acts like a whore, you treat them like one.
Rent her, pay her, then throw her out.
1) He wants out of the team and is trying to get the Giants to pull the tender
2) His hand is seriously fucked
Either way, it is far from brilliant when this now means the Giants hold all the leverage. All he's done with this stunt is stall because the Giants are certainly not going to pull the tender until they evaluate teh injury or have intimate knowledge on what the injury is.
Quote:
In comment 12361836 dorgan said:
Quote:
is a virtue.
He has no real leverage.
This is only a minor irritant. If he's injured seriously enough to keep him from playing, then you pull the plug.
If he can play, you use him this year as a one year expensive rental and then move on.
He only gains leverage if we react too quickly.
Coach normally I'd agree from a PRACTICAL standpoint..I almost always encourage patience as you know..But, when you shut out your employers (or their reps), that's another ballgame altogether..Imo
You pull the offer, you're doing exactly what he wants you to do.
When a player acts like a whore, you treat them like one.
Rent her, pay her, then throw her out.
Completely agree, but this whore ain't worth $15 million.
Quote:
this is a brilliant ploy by his agent for JPP to become a free agent.
And a great way for his agent to alienate the other teams in the NFL, if it's known using these tactics are the way he does business.
nah. it doesn't work that way. agents use tactics all the time.
Which would be doing him a favor. THEN you're a fool.
Step 1: Release reports of severe injury
Step 2: Hide in hospital leaking reports of injury from third party sources that you do not confirm or deny letting innuendo do its damage
Step 3: Do not let anyone from team see you and make them have no choice but to pull franchise tender making you a UFA
Step 4: Notify all teams that the injury was no where near as bad as reported, was over-exaggerated entirely but you were not prepared to make an official statement without clearance from doctors
Step 5: Get long term deal at team of choice
This is overthinking the situation by a astronomical amount.
The Giants do not need cap space- they signed all their draft picks, there are few FAs out there worth a major contract, and JPP's contract is already added into the cap pool. In short, there is NO need to take ANY action by the Giants.
In fact, the Giants best course of action is to simply do nothing, and continue to give information to the media that puts pressure on JPP's people to come clean.
For all those moaning about how other teams would "line up" to pay JPP- a simple answer- NOT. GOING. TO. HAPPEN.
First, only a couple teams even have decent cap space at this point in the off-season.
Second, guys like Jake Long who are injured and still quality players but will be ready sometime in the upcoming season, do not have teams beating down the door with big offers in hand. Why? Simple- because they are INJURED and NOT READY NOW.
Third- when this guy has demonstrated on a consistent basis that he is a complete knucklehead (hazing teammates by forceably throwing them in tubs of ice water, showing up badly out of shape, holding out when new coaches are hired and not learning the new system, now this fireworks problem)- WHY is any other team going to throw good money after a guy who has clearly demonstrated that he makes bad decisions over and over and apparently has a problem with his entourage not keeping him on the straight and narrow with tens of millions of dollars at stake? Is he suddenly going to straighten up when he gets GUARANTEED money, when he has consistently made poor decisions when getting rookie chump change? No- and no team is going to give massive dollars in July/August, or even September.
The Giants have ALL of the leverage here. They do not need to do a thing- JPP doesn't get paid unless he signs that tender offer. When he does, they can put him on the non-football injury list until they deem him ready. We have a poster on this site who apparently had a similar injury and made clear it was MONTHS before he could be back to normal- with camp opening WEEKS from now. JPP isn't coming off that NFI list regardless of the games he and his agent play until he can prove the hand is healthy. That isn't going to happen for a LONG time.
The Giants are playing this right- just keep turning the PR screws to JPP and his agent, wait for them to come clean on what happened and do NOTHING about his contract or the tender offer. In the meantime, JPP is costing himself a LOT of money in FA by the day- the other teams are watching too and seeing that they are going to have a VERY hard time trusting JPP and his handlers to keep himself game ready- and are going to ding him accordingly in their evaluations.
Just relax and get some popcorn.
1) He wants out of the team and is trying to get the Giants to pull the tender
2) His hand is seriously fucked
Either way, it is far from brilliant when this now means the Giants hold all the leverage. All he's done with this stunt is stall because the Giants are certainly not going to pull the tender until they evaluate teh injury or have intimate knowledge on what the injury is.
however, the Giants actually don't know anything
Second, the Giants will make him pass a physical before he signs the franchise tag, so he has to show them at some point. Why delay this? He isn't getting paid until he signs the tender anyway, so he is sort of delaying the inevitable.
Third, the Giants are known as a class organization that takes care of its players. So there should not be a strong level of distrust when it comes to the Giants organization.
Therefore, it makes sense he is using this as a tactic to get the Giants to withdraw the offer. But he is an idiot because the Giants have no reason to withdraw it. If he can't play they don't pay him. And if he does play, he needs to play well in order to get paid for his next contract. So all he is doing is making himself look like a real idiot and borderline asshole in this process.
Thanks Jon and others who replied.
Quote:
since the Giants now know it is one of two things going on:
1) He wants out of the team and is trying to get the Giants to pull the tender
2) His hand is seriously fucked
Either way, it is far from brilliant when this now means the Giants hold all the leverage. All he's done with this stunt is stall because the Giants are certainly not going to pull the tender until they evaluate teh injury or have intimate knowledge on what the injury is.
however, the Giants actually don't know anything
He could have a severe case of the shits, in which case this is all a ploy and his hands are fine. Either way, he is making an attempt to have the Giants look like fools. His agents must be a real sleaze.
Usually the simplest explanation is the correct one.
Well they certainly aren't now, without knowing how many fingers he has
I wonder if hiring a PI to ascertain medical information would be deemed an illegal invasion of his rights? You would think so and it's probably not worth the potential backlash if caught.
Quote:
time for our jelly fish GM to take a stand and cut bait. Bye Bye JPP. Be careful not to hurt your hands doing cart wheels.
Which would be doing him a favor. THEN you're a fool.
You need to understand that this guy wasn't worth $15million to begin with so what's the favor. And now with the damage inflicted both physically and organizationally he ain't worth $5 bucks. Its time to move on from this charade training camp is upon us. everyone is acting as if this guy has been a superior DE for 4 seasons. I don't get it. Lets give the money to real football men like Prince and Eli.
He is garbage. They drafted him, made him a millionare, and he was going to get $15 million this year before this act of buffoonery. I said it yesterday - this guy is dog shit, yet I was berated. What a difference a day makes around here.
At any rate, I think the Giants will just let this play out and after a week from today, JPP has no leverage. He must play out the year with the Giants and will certainly have to play and play well to get the big money deal he or his agent are seeking.
To my mind, this is his last year with the Giants unless he is absolutely dominant. We can go 6-10 without him just as easily. Not sure who mentioned it...might have been JonC but he is absolutely alienating everyone in the Giants organization, teammates included, I would guess.
how about sending people down there to check on the actual human and see how he's doing. not just send the medical staff to check on their "investment"
Not sure how smart the agent is if he is trying to get the Giants to pull offer.
Factor this bullshit into it and he's gone. He won't be a Giant after this year. The only question will be if he plays for the Giants at all this year. Even if he did, I doubt he even fucking tries. Screw this guy.
For that to be true the hospital would have to be in cahoots and is just holding him there as a favor
how about sending people down there to check on the actual human and see how he's doing. not just send the medical staff to check on their "investment"
Barnes has been meeting with JPP throughout this off-season in Miami and just visited the facility a couple of weeks ago. He is close with Armstead and he turned him away as well. He has not been avoiding the Giants personnel at all until July 5, 2015. Come on now.