or farther south than it already has, I would trade him before I pulled the tender. Trade him to an AFC team. No way I'd take the chance he winds up the division and I wouldn't let him decide where he goes.
the Giants know exactly what the situation is with the injury, which makes JPP's antics even more idiotic.
He's getting bad advice, plain and simple. The team has no motivation to pull the tender and these latest actions give them even less motivation to do so.
At this point, JPP is only creating a divide here.
I completely see that line of thinking, and it makes sense to me except for one thing. What motivation do the Giants have to keep JPP at this point? Do we even want him playing at all this season given that he's likely to be a poor player in 2015 after all of this?
If the current circumstances stay in place (tender remains, he doesn't sign) do the Giants still get that $15 million in cap space? To me that space has more value than having JPP as a player in 2015 does.
didn't see JPP. that doesn't mean the JPP camp hasn't apprised the Giants of the situation.
Is Barnes some burn specialist? what good would it do him to see JPP? take off the bandages and say, yep that looks like a skin graph (pun intended)?
It could be a bad harbinger, or maybe it's just the Giants keeping mum after being fully apprised, and reporters just looking to stir up shit.
He's not a burn specialist, but he's ostensibly smart enough, experienced enough, to ask the right questions of the medical personnel at the hospital..
Even if he can heal in 3 months and was instantly available, thats week 7 anyway, so if he signs the tender and is NFI'd 900K/game gives the team 5.4M, and likely up to 3-4M to sign a vet for whatever position, DE, or Mathis for OL,or wherever they feel the need.
I think this whole situation is not sitting well w/Giants, as player-friendly an organization as there is/they are, and will constantly be looking back at him with a jaundiced eye.
Yes there is a fear of him going someplace like a division opponent, but you have to take care of yourself first to improve then whatever it is, it is.
Personally, I lean to a goodbye, but maybe he would be the LT, the roamer, in the Spags system.
I don't know what the ramification are to the cap space to make an educated opinion.
If tehy can get the $15M in cap space, I'd still want them to keep the tender active until they know what's going on so he doesn't hoodwink them and go to a division rival, even if it might work out that he'll play poorly.
I don't know what the ramification are to the cap space to make an educated opinion.
If tehy can get the $15M in cap space, I'd still want them to keep the tender active until they know what's going on so he doesn't hoodwink them and go to a division rival, even if it might work out that he'll play poorly.
At this point I'd welcome him going to a division rival. Even if he's a decent player somewhere else, he won't be worth the contract he gets. Net negative in the long run.
At this point there is no DE on his level available....
Next yr you move on no matter how he performs...maybe you tag him again just to trade him and get a pick. Trade him to the worst team making an offer....
RE: At this point there is no DE on his level available....
You keep the tender and ride it out...until you know more
Next yr you move on no matter how he performs...maybe you tag him again just to trade him and get a pick. Trade him to the worst team making the best offer....
Next yr you move on no matter how he performs...maybe you tag him again just to trade him and get a pick. Trade him to the worst team making an offer....
At this point I'd welcome him going to a division rival. Even if he's a decent player somewhere else, he won't be worth the contract he gets. Net negative in the long run.
I guess my stance is that we'd be unlikely to get $15M in value from a similar player, so why not wait and get what we can in return?
If he keeps dicking around, we retain his rights and I'm sure we could shop him for something. The caveat is that if we could get a decent resource with the cap money saved from him, I'd be for going that route.
RE: I don't care what the technical strategy is or is not,
you send a contingent down to check on an employee and you are denied access, I'm withdrawing the tender whether it benefits me or not as an employer..
Let him be someone else's headache..I wouldn't lose sleep over what he may or may not do to us with another team..if he was that feared, he would have been given close to what he has asked for imo..
100% correct. Plus, if he actually had is in need of skin grafts, the is out of commission for a while. he won't be able to use his hand to work out for several weeks. He won't be able to put pressure on his hand for several weeks. I don't see any way he would be ready for the start of the season.
Sure, they only pay him for the games he is ready. But, the full tender counts against the cap. With the numbers crunch Eric was alluding to in terms of getting to a 53 man roster, there is no need to hold on to him.
Unless the Giants had firm evidence that he wasn't playing this year (or ever)?
I doubt the entire report of the injury is false, but it appears the agent is trying to get the Giants to pull the tender and allow JPP to become unrestricted. Again, why would the Giants do that without looking at his hand(s)?
RE: RE: I don't think he is hurt worse than has been reported.
Your logic makes no sense. JPP has been in touch the with the Giants throughout the off-season. He was just at the facility with the trainers and his teammates. Going over Spags playbooks. So you think he just out of the blue on July 5 changed his own stance and just coincidentally had this accident to now have them pull the tender?
No I did not suggest the accident and injury are coincidental. I was responding to the fact that some posters were speculating that he was hurt worse than was let on, and that was why he did not want the Giants looking at his hand (so they would pull the tender and he could become a free agent). I suggested that if he were hurt badly, becoming a free agent does him no good since no team would sign him to a long term contract with a badly damaged hand.
Like it or not, he is not in the same negotiating position today that he was on July 3rd. He likely lost his ability to get a long term deal from the Giants.
I'm with the crowd that this is just the agents ploy, to get NYG to
Is that this is the Giants we are talking about. They don't tolerate this shit with their stars. If it was the Cowboys or Raiders I could see it but the Giants are the most old-school by the book franchise around.
1) No shot of any kind of long term deal with JPP. Mara has already put the kabosh on that.
2) The Giants will use the tag only as far as it benefits them. They are reluctant to use it to begin with. They value loyalty and gladly give plenty of loyalty in return.
Add it up and it's as simple as 2 + 2 = none of us will ever see JPP in a Giants uniform again.
Not to toot my own horn but the second this news broke I started saying it and nobody believed me. It's over - RING DA DAMN BELL!
maybe Barnes did talk with the doctors. the twitter said Barnes didn't see JPP. Everyone is assuming that means Barnes went home without having learned anything either through proper channels or not.
IMO, it may be the equivalent of Player X hasn't been contacted by the team, but somehow a contract is hammered out the next day. maybe Player X wasn't contacted, but his agent was. One of my favorite memories of camp get togethers in Albany, besides meeting other BBIers, was the time SOTI told us there'd been no contact between Strahan and the Giants. a day or two later, a new contract was announced.
and his agent are not cooperating with the Giants on this issue. Not a good sign for his future here, or for our defensive season next year. The agent will try and get him the best deal he can under the circumstances, as he should. This leaves us holding the bag. Think he is history and we are screwed.
Wan't there information from I. Rappaport on NFL.com that both the Giants and JPP are not ruling out playing in week 1.
No one from the Giants staff have even seen JPP how in the world could they rule on anything. National media have been made to look foolish taking everything from JPP camp.
some of the guys commenting on this thread handle business-related decisions in real life. The jump to conclusions game would be great for some of you guys. Maybe you'd calm down a bit and think.
The Giants hold the cards here - they wait it out. There's no emotion, no hate, no anger. Disappointment - possibly. But JPP is being advised to keep a lid on everything and see how the Giants react. The Giants' are calling JPPs bluff.
Either way, I suspect this will end worse for JPP than it will for the Giants.
are using this as a way out of the Franchise Tag and becoming a FA. If he was trying to protect himself against a pulled offer he would have signed it as soon as he could. Not allowing the Giants to see him could be forcing their hand or at least trying to.
There is a possibility the agent has had previous talks with teams and knows what there offer is compared to the Giants offer. Its not just limited to the teams that have cap space now, if a team wants him they will find a way.
This is all speculation on my part but if they are not happy with the Giants offer then they can try anything. Plus since JPP is not sighed he is under no obligation to the Giants to share his medical info. The NFL cant do anything about that. Thats my 2 cents.
some of the guys commenting on this thread handle business-related decisions in real life. The jump to conclusions game would be great for some of you guys. Maybe you'd calm down a bit and think.
The Giants hold the cards here - they wait it out. There's no emotion, no hate, no anger. Disappointment - possibly. But JPP is being advised to keep a lid on everything and see how the Giants react. The Giants' are calling JPPs bluff.
Either way, I suspect this will end worse for JPP than it will for the Giants.
That's my take as well. People need to take a step back and realize there is so much unknown and any decisions made today would be without all of the information, AKA, fans are generally stupid.
The Giants are going to wait as long as it takes and that's what they should be doing. There isn't a DE market out there to spend money on, there isn't a draft next week to take a DE round 1, there isn't anything to do other than wait and see.
They talked about the situation and Osi and JPP have exchanged messages and JPP told Osi everything will be fine. Russillo asked Osi why do you think JPP wont allow contact with Giants and Osi said in his mind, if it were him in that situation the only reason he'd do that would be to try and force the Giants to make him a FA. Osi also said he wouldn't do that. Too much of a risk.
There is a possibility the agent has had previous talks with teams and knows what there offer is compared to the Giants offer. Its not just limited to the teams that have cap space now, if a team wants him they will find a way.
Not sure that wouldn't fall into the category of tampering. I guess it would depend on whether having a franchise tag on the table means the Giants still have exclusive rights
They talked about the situation and Osi and JPP have exchanged messages and JPP told Osi everything will be fine. Russillo asked Osi why do you think JPP wont allow contact with Giants and Osi said in his mind, if it were him in that situation the only reason he'd do that would be to try and force the Giants to make him a FA. Osi also said he wouldn't do that. Too much of a risk.
I'm sure everything will be fine for JPP.................................eventually.
But this season, with skin grafts involved, is going to be a wasted year I fear. I think we'd be lucky to see him by Thanksgiving.
At this point I'd welcome him going to a division rival. Even if he's a decent player somewhere else, he won't be worth the contract he gets. Net negative in the long run.
I guess my stance is that we'd be unlikely to get $15M in value from a similar player, so why not wait and get what we can in return?
If he keeps dicking around, we retain his rights and I'm sure we could shop him for something. The caveat is that if we could get a decent resource with the cap money saved from him, I'd be for going that route.
There's no reason to necessarily spend that cap space in 2015. Rolling it into 2016 sends a fine option to me.
There's no doubt this is a case of trying to make the best of a bad situation. But potentially counting on JPP to play for them (even if he's healthy enough week 1 seems suboptimal to me. I just don't expect him to be any good at all.
I don't have much to add that hasn't been said already
But it's really frustrating to invest in a team and pay this kind of money for season tickets to see a star act the way JPP has through this situation. It's bad enough that he got hurt he way he did, but now to keep everything from the team and the fans, that part really bothers me
It's a baffling decision to treat the team as persona non grata
To me JPP not allowing the them to see him means one thing, his injury is serious and he doesn't want Giants to be aware of serious it is. If an employee came to you offering 15mil and you stop them at the door, it's because you don't want them to know how bad your injury is and lose out on tons of money.
If the Giants pull the offer and JPP hits the open market there is no way he gets 15 mil for next year elsewhere, considering no one knows how severe the injury is right now.
Is Barnes some burn specialist? what good would it do him to see JPP? take off the bandages and say, yep that looks like a skin graph (pun intended)?
It could be a bad harbinger, or maybe it's just the Giants keeping mum after being fully apprised, and reporters just looking to stir up shit.
Yeah, that's the ticket..
He's getting bad advice, plain and simple. The team has no motivation to pull the tender and these latest actions give them even less motivation to do so.
At this point, JPP is only creating a divide here.
I completely see that line of thinking, and it makes sense to me except for one thing. What motivation do the Giants have to keep JPP at this point? Do we even want him playing at all this season given that he's likely to be a poor player in 2015 after all of this?
If the current circumstances stay in place (tender remains, he doesn't sign) do the Giants still get that $15 million in cap space? To me that space has more value than having JPP as a player in 2015 does.
Is Barnes some burn specialist? what good would it do him to see JPP? take off the bandages and say, yep that looks like a skin graph (pun intended)?
It could be a bad harbinger, or maybe it's just the Giants keeping mum after being fully apprised, and reporters just looking to stir up shit.
He's not a burn specialist, but he's ostensibly smart enough, experienced enough, to ask the right questions of the medical personnel at the hospital..
If he is not at the hospital and they don't know where he is, that would explain why the Giants staff left Florida
I think this whole situation is not sitting well w/Giants, as player-friendly an organization as there is/they are, and will constantly be looking back at him with a jaundiced eye.
Yes there is a fear of him going someplace like a division opponent, but you have to take care of yourself first to improve then whatever it is, it is.
Personally, I lean to a goodbye, but maybe he would be the LT, the roamer, in the Spags system.
If tehy can get the $15M in cap space, I'd still want them to keep the tender active until they know what's going on so he doesn't hoodwink them and go to a division rival, even if it might work out that he'll play poorly.
If tehy can get the $15M in cap space, I'd still want them to keep the tender active until they know what's going on so he doesn't hoodwink them and go to a division rival, even if it might work out that he'll play poorly.
At this point I'd welcome him going to a division rival. Even if he's a decent player somewhere else, he won't be worth the contract he gets. Net negative in the long run.
Next yr you move on no matter how he performs...maybe you tag him again just to trade him and get a pick. Trade him to the worst team making an offer....
Next yr you move on no matter how he performs...maybe you tag him again just to trade him and get a pick. Trade him to the worst team making the best offer....
Next yr you move on no matter how he performs...maybe you tag him again just to trade him and get a pick. Trade him to the worst team making an offer....
This.
I guess my stance is that we'd be unlikely to get $15M in value from a similar player, so why not wait and get what we can in return?
If he keeps dicking around, we retain his rights and I'm sure we could shop him for something. The caveat is that if we could get a decent resource with the cap money saved from him, I'd be for going that route.
Let him be someone else's headache..I wouldn't lose sleep over what he may or may not do to us with another team..if he was that feared, he would have been given close to what he has asked for imo..
Sure, they only pay him for the games he is ready. But, the full tender counts against the cap. With the numbers crunch Eric was alluding to in terms of getting to a 53 man roster, there is no need to hold on to him.
I doubt the entire report of the injury is false, but it appears the agent is trying to get the Giants to pull the tender and allow JPP to become unrestricted. Again, why would the Giants do that without looking at his hand(s)?
Your logic makes no sense. JPP has been in touch the with the Giants throughout the off-season. He was just at the facility with the trainers and his teammates. Going over Spags playbooks. So you think he just out of the blue on July 5 changed his own stance and just coincidentally had this accident to now have them pull the tender?
No I did not suggest the accident and injury are coincidental. I was responding to the fact that some posters were speculating that he was hurt worse than was let on, and that was why he did not want the Giants looking at his hand (so they would pull the tender and he could become a free agent). I suggested that if he were hurt badly, becoming a free agent does him no good since no team would sign him to a long term contract with a badly damaged hand.
Like it or not, he is not in the same negotiating position today that he was on July 3rd. He likely lost his ability to get a long term deal from the Giants.
Or just a conspiracy to drive the Giants fan base nuts.
Take that BBI :)
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I don't see anything in that link that even hints that is a picture of his hand. But if it is, holy shit!
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A picture of his hand warning graphic Link - ( New Window )
I don't see anything in that link that even hints that is a picture of his hand. But if it is, holy shit!
It's not his hand.
1) No shot of any kind of long term deal with JPP. Mara has already put the kabosh on that.
2) The Giants will use the tag only as far as it benefits them. They are reluctant to use it to begin with. They value loyalty and gladly give plenty of loyalty in return.
Add it up and it's as simple as 2 + 2 = none of us will ever see JPP in a Giants uniform again.
Not to toot my own horn but the second this news broke I started saying it and nobody believed me. It's over - RING DA DAMN BELL!
IMO, it may be the equivalent of Player X hasn't been contacted by the team, but somehow a contract is hammered out the next day. maybe Player X wasn't contacted, but his agent was. One of my favorite memories of camp get togethers in Albany, besides meeting other BBIers, was the time SOTI told us there'd been no contact between Strahan and the Giants. a day or two later, a new contract was announced.
Get all pumped for the season only to see one of the best players on the team blowing half his arm off and now this shit...
WTF...I give up
No one from the Giants staff have even seen JPP how in the world could they rule on anything. National media have been made to look foolish taking everything from JPP camp.
/sarcasm
The Giants hold the cards here - they wait it out. There's no emotion, no hate, no anger. Disappointment - possibly. But JPP is being advised to keep a lid on everything and see how the Giants react. The Giants' are calling JPPs bluff.
Either way, I suspect this will end worse for JPP than it will for the Giants.
There is a possibility the agent has had previous talks with teams and knows what there offer is compared to the Giants offer. Its not just limited to the teams that have cap space now, if a team wants him they will find a way.
This is all speculation on my part but if they are not happy with the Giants offer then they can try anything. Plus since JPP is not sighed he is under no obligation to the Giants to share his medical info. The NFL cant do anything about that. Thats my 2 cents.
The Giants hold the cards here - they wait it out. There's no emotion, no hate, no anger. Disappointment - possibly. But JPP is being advised to keep a lid on everything and see how the Giants react. The Giants' are calling JPPs bluff.
Either way, I suspect this will end worse for JPP than it will for the Giants.
That's my take as well. People need to take a step back and realize there is so much unknown and any decisions made today would be without all of the information, AKA, fans are generally stupid.
The Giants are going to wait as long as it takes and that's what they should be doing. There isn't a DE market out there to spend money on, there isn't a draft next week to take a DE round 1, there isn't anything to do other than wait and see.
Obviously not without JPP's consent, but if he wanted to keep the team in the loop he certainly could have given it.
There is a possibility the agent has had previous talks with teams and knows what there offer is compared to the Giants offer. Its not just limited to the teams that have cap space now, if a team wants him they will find a way.
Not sure that wouldn't fall into the category of tampering. I guess it would depend on whether having a franchise tag on the table means the Giants still have exclusive rights
I'll bet he sold him the fireworks too.
I'm sure everything will be fine for JPP.................................eventually.
But this season, with skin grafts involved, is going to be a wasted year I fear. I think we'd be lucky to see him by Thanksgiving.
Quote:
At this point I'd welcome him going to a division rival. Even if he's a decent player somewhere else, he won't be worth the contract he gets. Net negative in the long run.
I guess my stance is that we'd be unlikely to get $15M in value from a similar player, so why not wait and get what we can in return?
If he keeps dicking around, we retain his rights and I'm sure we could shop him for something. The caveat is that if we could get a decent resource with the cap money saved from him, I'd be for going that route.
There's no reason to necessarily spend that cap space in 2015. Rolling it into 2016 sends a fine option to me.
There's no doubt this is a case of trying to make the best of a bad situation. But potentially counting on JPP to play for them (even if he's healthy enough week 1 seems suboptimal to me. I just don't expect him to be any good at all.
If the Giants pull the offer and JPP hits the open market there is no way he gets 15 mil for next year elsewhere, considering no one knows how severe the injury is right now.
Is this from twitter or an article? link? This is crazy at this point, I'm almost done with the topic.
Quote:
is refusing the teams medical help as well. This dude is basically hiding. His hands must be completely fucked up.
Is this from twitter or an article? link? This is crazy at this point, I'm almost done with the topic.
New article
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Quote:
In comment 12362450 Rflairr said:
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is refusing the teams medical help as well. This dude is basically hiding. His hands must be completely fucked up.
Is this from twitter or an article? link? This is crazy at this point, I'm almost done with the topic.
New article Link - ( New Window )
Thanks. What a clusterfuck.