Both they and the hospital are going to likely be come after.
As stupid as he was, I feel terrible for JPP and hope he's saved well to this point. It's cold, but the Giants have to rescind the franchise tender now though.
Gotta sign the tender lefty now
BeerFridge : 7:14 pm : link : reply
.
It's one thing to speculate about the situation without knowing the facts. It's another to make that comment knowing the severity of the injury to another person. Shameful.
Giants DE Jason Pierre-Paul finger amputated today. Medical source expects him to play this season, "sooner than people think." - per Adam Schefter
Without a finger and skin grafts on the rest of his hand?
He'll play again or try to, but he's not seeing an NFL field for at least most of this season and any dreams of a big pay day after this season are gone for him.
Ive never played DL but lineman have jacked up hands all the time. I'm assuming it's integral to leverage and initial contact. I could be wrong. I don't know. What's why I asked.
Ian Rapoport @RapSheet 26s26 seconds ago
Thinking of Jason Pierre-Paul is this: Cutting off his finger simplifies and accelerates his recovery. Could be back in fewer than 2 months
This was Jason Pierre-Pauls decision to amputate his finger. This sounds like a Ronnie Lott situation. Hes still in surgery now.
24 retweets 6 favorites
It's integral to gripping and leverage. A single digit may be something he can adapt to. Of course we have no way of knowing the severity of further damage to his hand or the extent of graft, etc. he is undergoing.
This is incredible.
Dave in Hoboken : 7:20 pm : link : reply
Anyone else blown away?
No class.
Holy shit. I honestly didn't even think of it that way. My bad. If so, I would just admit it. Sorry about that. I am honestly just shocked and at this point, I do feel for the guy as dumb of a decision as it was.
I would take it down here, just leave the link if anything. I administrate a 3 doctor practice, lawsuits and fines are coming if this not a fabrication.
If I had to guess, I would say yes . Most of the lost fingers are by any of the explosive fireworks . A blockbuster is a 1/4 stick of dynamite . Mortars are the next, when they don't go off people go to check on the pipe and they explode or shoot them in the face.
RE: RE: RE: RE: This is not quite career ending, but it does adversely affect him
I defended his right to do whatever he wanted, but there are consequences for your actions. How do you push off without a finger, how do you get leverage. I wish him luck but, I don't see it working.
unless it was his thumb I don't see how he's "limited" in anything really. Maybe jersey grabbing?
Take a step back and think about it.
Go pick up something. Then tell me not having your index finger doesn't limit that ability.
yeah, but you're used to picking it up with 5. I think once you adapt to 4 then you can pick stuff up just as easily. (Just a guess...I have all my digits)
Have attempted to minimize his impact on this team in recent days but losing his type of talent is debilitating. Not too many people can make the plays he made to thwart the fake fg by New Orleans a few years back of the Robert griffin fumble at the goal line. He was working out really hard and I expected great things from him this year. He really really let the team down here. Losing a LT and double digit sack pass rusher in the offseason. Stings like hell
wow, shocking! Very bummed. not sure of the impact to his playing but it cannot be good in spite of medical advancements. What a dumb thing to do. JPP has never impressed with his smarts.
Have attempted to minimize his impact on this team in recent days but losing his type of talent is debilitating. Not too many people can make the plays he made to thwart the fake fg by New Orleans a few years back of the Robert griffin fumble at the goal line. He was working out really hard and I expected great things from him this year. He really really let the team down here. Losing a LT and double digit sack pass rusher in the offseason. Stings like hell
or just a portion of it? I thought early reports were that he might lose a part of a finger or two. I'd be surprised if it was the whole thing though. But I'm sure it's not career ending for whoever thought that. We've seen DL wrap their whole hand like a club and go out there and play.
We have four Lombardi Trophies and are one of the most storied sports franchises in the world.
If you use poor judgement it carries consequences. When you associate yourself with people of poor judgement it will have a negative impact on you.
This is why so many of us value character and intelligence in the young men the Giants bring into the organization. Far too often disregarding those tenets results in serious damage to the teams competitive results and public perception.
if they obtained the medical chart legally - didn't steal it?
It sounds like ESPN and even the hospital aren't likely in that deep of trouble re: JPP's info being released, thanks to the NFLPA being the NFL's bitches.
The issue that some on Twitter are now bringing up is that another patient's info is visible on the document and that individual didn't have their rights under the HIPAA all but taken away by a CBA.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: This is not quite career ending, but it does adversely affect him
let him become a free agent. The Giants don't need another Plaxico. Remember, this is a guy that came to camp one season out of shape and also had back surgery. He was effective vs lousy teams like Jacksonville but disappeared vs Top talent. Why would we want to pay this guy more than 14M for a season?
I don't feel bad for this guy one bit. If you are so stupid with millions of dollars sitting at the end of your pen to be blowing fireworks up before using that pen, you deserve to end or seriously jeopardize your career. MORON.
saying that a partial removal would have taken much longer to heal.
Is that picture posted earlier real? If it was that or even anything close to it then yeah, I can see why that whole finger would be amputated rather than just a portion. Looks like all that's left in that picture is bone. The middle finger looked similar too. At least I think that's the middle finger and not the ring finger. The whole hand minus the thumb is mangled.
glad someone else mentioned Ronnie Lott. He ELECTED to have his finger amputated. It was not even 100% necessary. He played a position where he needed to actually catch the ball too.
Jim Abbott pitched a no hitter with one arm. Lots of successful athletes who have a handicap.
Why dont you armchair lawyers and other jerkoffs go do some fucking research on what a covered entity is before you spew your bullshit about what this has "written all over it"
But people adapt to things very well. In time I think he can overcome the impact of losing that finger. How long it will take I don't know. How bad are the burns and extensive the grafts will have a major impact on his recovery timetable.
I seriously doubt the Giants have a clue what they are going to do yet. Until they get solid medical information how can they.
glad someone else mentioned Ronnie Lott. He ELECTED to have his finger amputated. It was not even 100% necessary. He played a position where he needed to actually catch the ball too.
Jim Abbott pitched a no hitter with one arm. Lots of successful athletes who have a handicap.
This is minor.
He was also a safety, not a DL who constantly uses his hands, grabs the jerseys of OL, etc. Nevermind the fact he had the tip of his pinky amputated, not his entire index finger...
The guy was clearly seriously hurt, and this seems to confirm it. He is facing a tremendous and terrifying situation, and the cause aside, I expect the organization to be methodical, respectful and smart about how this plays out.
He's a very good football player and should have a good chance to continue to be a good football player. The timing is very, very bad for the Giants. What they cannot do is exacerbate this very bad situation by doing something rash. No doubt he's made a terrible mistake and put the team in a bad bind.
Why dont you armchair lawyers and other jerkoffs go do some fucking research on what a covered entity is before you spew your bullshit about what this has "written all over it"
Hilarious. Exactly! I practice labor and employment law which sometimes requires me to look at hipaa, and I'm loving some of the comments about who is clearly sueing who... A simple Google of hipaa and who is covered....
Interesting article by a hand surgeon about the index finger
He refused to meet with team personnel who made the trip to Miami, sources confirmed to The Post, and JPP reportedly refused the teams offer to set him up with hand specialists in Manhattan.
especially a Giant that helped us win a Super Bowl, so my thoughts and prayers are with him. While we're all disappointed as Giants fans, mocking or insulting him does no good IMHO.
He took a high risk on something that had little reward (it's not like he was injured saving someone from a burning building) and he only has himself to blame for that.
While it may be unlikely, there's a chance he emerges from this as a more mature and dedicated person. What happened to him is done; how he reacts and goes forward is his choice.
The Giants should react based on if / how this even has changed him, both negatively (the amputation and other physical complications) and positively (big if).
What is the difference between a missing finger and playing with broken fingers?
I played two seasons with multiple broken fingers.
My hands were wrapped so that my fingers were taped together.
Most defensive linemen play with broken fingers. It is customary to get stomped on while you are on the ground.
Football cleats are unforgiving.
He took a high risk on something that had little reward (it's not like he was injured saving someone from a burning building) and he only has himself to blame for that.
He did save a child, didn't he? I read it on bbi
Generally, HIPAA protects a patient's confidential medical information
from being disclosed to a third party by a medical provider, health plan or health clearinghouse without the patient's consent. Clearly ESPN is not his medical provider or health plan.
and making jokes about this event are really classless IMHO. This guy may have made some poor choices, but he is / was a NY Giant; once a Giant, always a Giant.
was to never say anything to the Giants until zero-day on the franchise tag signing. Either the Giants rescind and make him a free agent, or they shovel 15m to him without knowing his condition.
from being disclosed to a third party by a medical provider, health plan or health clearinghouse without the patient's consent. Clearly ESPN is not his medical provider or health plan.
ESPN can still be liable if they had reason to believe the information was obtained illegally.
was to never say anything to the Giants until zero-day on the franchise tag signing. Either the Giants rescind and make him a free agent, or they shovel 15m to him without knowing his condition.
That had to be the plan before this leak.
If he can't play they dont owe him 15 million even if he signs the tender. If he's on NFI list he doesnt get paid. If he doesn't sign the tender and signs it mid-season he doesn't get paid for the time he missed
We have four Lombardi Trophies and are one of the most storied sports franchises in the world.
If you use poor judgement it carries consequences. When you associate yourself with people of poor judgement it will have a negative impact on you.
This is why so many of us value character and intelligence in the young men the Giants bring into the organization. Far too often disregarding those tenets results in serious damage to the teams competitive results and public perception.
Torrag, in fairness to Eric, he said most SUCCESSFUL cursed franchise
Regardless of HIPAA, there is some possibility that he might have other statutory or common law claims against ESPN for publicizing private information about him that was obtained without his consent. Of course, that assumes that this was a leak and not obtained with his consent.
Typically buying hundreds of dollars worth every 4th. I used to have an ideal setup for them - lived on the water with a rail system that rested on a concrete ramp with 1-2 ft. sides, so if anything tipped over it would just hit the walls (obviously after removing the boat), and everything went off over the water.
A couple of years after moving, I was doing them from a backyard, and didnt have one of them braced correctly. It tipped over and hit my younger daughter in the thigh resulting in a huge bruise and a decent sized cut. And alcohol was probably a factor.
Ever since Ive had nightmares about what would have happened if had hit her in the face. I now stick to commercial displays (which she still loves), but still have to be close enough to feel the ashes falling on us
The mix of embarassment, shame, anxiety...I think he'll be forgiven for his rude behavior towards Giants personnel right now. He's backed into a corner, looking out for himself, and is sort of going through a few things right now. I'd like to think it's not how I'd respond, but who knows . The Giants have only his bedt intentions in mind.
but it feels like some of you are actually underestimating what the loss of an index finger means to a defensive lineman whose job it is to get a grip on a 320lb monstrosity of a human being that plays NFL OT.
JPP is succesful not because of his speed off the snap, but because of the leverage he gets. He's probably the 2nd best DE in the league at gaining leverage against the OT (Watt), he's just a powerhouse.
IMO, this is going to affect him a lot more than it would've affected a speed rusher like Osi. Hope I'm wrong. I'm simultaneously angry and sorry for the guy.
was to never say anything to the Giants until zero-day on the franchise tag signing. Either the Giants rescind and make him a free agent, or they shovel 15m to him without knowing his condition.
That had to be the plan before this leak.
If he can't play they dont owe him 15 million even if he signs the tender. If he's on NFI list he doesnt get paid. If he doesn't sign the tender and signs it mid-season he doesn't get paid for the time he missed
so you are basically saying he has zero leverage here.
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RE: RE: How the hell can he play with a missing finger?
it likely that the others are pretty mangled too? I can see him still playing at a high level without the index IF the rest of his hand is back to normal, full strength, etc. But i'd wager the rest of his hand will remain somewhat fucked up. Fuckin idiot.
Regardless of HIPAA, there is some possibility that he might have other statutory or common law claims against ESPN for publicizing private information about him that was obtained without his consent. Of course, that assumes that this was a leak and not obtained with his consent.
The point is it's got nothing to do with some 'curse'. As if it's a random occurrence brought on us by past acts or the universe having it in for us.
Plax was a known knucklehead with a talent for football. We made a judgement he would be an asset. He was. We don't win a Superbowl without him. He also shot himself and cost us one of the finest seasons I remember unfolding.
Same goes for JPP. His immaturity(being kind) is no surprise to anyone.
It's not a curse when you embrace potential problems then they turn into problems. You lie down with dogs you get up with fleas.
The point is it's got nothing to do with some 'curse'. As if it's a random occurrence brought on us by past acts or the universe having it in for us.
Plax was a known knucklehead with a talent for football. We made a judgement he would be an asset. He was. We don't win a Superbowl without him. He also shot himself and cost us one of the finest seasons I remember unfolding.
Same goes for JPP. His immaturity(being kind) is no surprise to anyone.
It's not a curse when you embrace potential problems then they turn into problems. You lie down with dogs you get up with fleas.
Yeah, along those lines you can throw in Will Hill
Regardless of HIPAA, there is some possibility that he might have other statutory or common law claims against ESPN for publicizing private information about him that was obtained without his consent. Of course, that assumes that this was a leak and not obtained with his consent.
Highly unlikely in Florida. And not in new York. They owe him no duty or obligation of privacy, and in any event, he's a public figure.
Regardless of HIPAA, there is some possibility that he might have other statutory or common law claims against ESPN for publicizing private information about him that was obtained without his consent. Of course, that assumes that this was a leak and not obtained with his consent.
Highly unlikely in Florida. And not in new York. They owe him no duty or obligation of privacy, and in any event, he's a public figure.
It's pretty clear that JPP sacrificed the finger in order to not lose a season of $$$.
Is it? Finger may have been very badly mangled and Dr's told him it would be of little use to him ever again. Also nothing has been clear in this case from the beginning.
easier to play without a finger as a safety than as a DLineman.
Wouldn't you say its a lot more manageable than losing the thumb? There's ways around with a disability.I've people with no legs do the unthinkable. It's the person and their desire.
Imagine if the Giants were to win the SB and JPP is actually one of the main reasons why? That would make for a hell of a DVD that they release when each year's SB winner gets a DVD released telling that team's story. If only..
Regardless of HIPAA, there is some possibility that he might have other statutory or common law claims against ESPN for publicizing private information about him that was obtained without his consent. Of course, that assumes that this was a leak and not obtained with his consent.
But the question is how long will it take to learn how to. If you have an injured finger you can tape it to another and get by. I'm sure at the NFL level it will take awhile to get used to it.
If he can start camp no big deal. If he can't cause it needs to heal it will tough to imagine how long before he can play effectively.
If he needs skin grafts isn't that a drawn out procedure doing little bits at a time. Could it go on for months?
And I think he'll play week 1 and have another typically productive season.
I don't think you guys want to admit it acknowledge that many young people, especially star athletes do stupid things. I know I did. Most just don't get caught or hurt.
By all evidence jpp isn't a bad guy. He's a good teammate and a damn good player. He fucked up and hurt himself. These guys don't live in a bubble and many come from rough beginnings. They are going to make mistakes.
are exhibit #1 on how you can both be SUCCESSFUL (eight NFL titles) and CURSED (the number of career-ending or altering injuries and weird incidents has to be some sort of record).
I don't know why people keep saying JPP isn't a bad guy.
I wonder how long it would have taken him to come back.
I have serious concerns he did not think this decision through.
My guess it would have been the bulk of the season. See the update on the front page. By all indications, it was a decision on JPP's part to cut the finger off in order to save the season. Ronnie Lott did that once just to play in a playoff game. (against the Giants where we beat them 17-3).
I feel really bad for the guy. I'm sure he's devastated. All we care about is when he can get back on the field and how effective he'll be but the guy just lost a finger. Yes, he's an idiot.. but it's still terrible. Life-altering.
I do think he will still be able to play at a high level but it might take some time for him to adjust. We'll see. Whole thing sucks.
would just amputate a finger because the patient thought it would get him back to work sooner. They had to have believed it was one of his best options.
But that's horrible. So many people make stupid decisions on a daily basis and doesn't blow up in their face. That's some horrible luck. I hope he can recover and continue his career. Huge opportunity for Moore and Odighizuwa.
would just amputate a finger because the patient thought it would get him back to work sooner. They had to have believed it was one of his best options.
Not necessarily. Again, there is precedent for this. Lott had his finger amputated simply to be able to play in ONE football game.
Hosp record notes a ray resection
Ray resection isn't just the visible finger - it involves the finger bone in the hand proper- maybe it is mislabeled. It in my experience would indicate a more extensive injury and if true change hand dynamics beyond loss of ( an important ) single finger.
Skin grafts expected ( split thickness the methodology almost always used )
Hopefully the report is mislabeled
Did he weigh in the possibility his abilities will be reduced due to the loss of the finger?
His decision, but to my mind, you wait and come back 100%. It's not like it was knee or shoulder injury where you have to wait and see if the injury heals completely or recurs.
Chad Jones getting into a car accident that he had absolutely
nothing to do with and his career ending before it started could be considered a "cursed" thing, if you must claim it.
Again, though, this has nothing to do with a curse or team-wide bad luck. I feel bad for JPP, but a dope did something dopey and he, unfortunately, had to pay for it with a finger (though he may very well be lucky it was only a finger and not something far worse), just like a dope like Plaxico thought the elastic waistband of baggy sweatpants could hold up a loaded gun years ago now. You bank on idiots, you're often going to reap what the idiots sow with their idiocy -- just hopefully you also reap what the idiots sow with their talent too to even things out (and the Giants did, with JPP and with Plaxico). It's just the way it goes and it has nothing to do with "curses" or anything of that ilk.
if not him personally than his agent. I mean granted he is going through a lot medically, and all our info comes heresay from media and tweets, but that one article posted on this thread said he did not communicate with Giants officals and rebuffed offers of expert medical care in NYC.
Hope he gets well soon. Bad break of the team and obviously him.
it's obviously awful, but it's 1000x better than a torn ACL, micro fracture, another disc herniation, etc.
So yeah, when you put things in perspective a bit and also hear an early 2 month time table, it's not as bad as many on here are making it seem (if there's reports are accurate).
But hey, don't want to spoil the party. Hopefully he can still eat his cereal in the morning...
Typically buying hundreds of dollars worth every 4th. I used to have an ideal setup for them - lived on the water with a rail system that rested on a concrete ramp with 1-2 ft. sides, so if anything tipped over it would just hit the walls (obviously after removing the boat), and everything went off over the water.
A couple of years after moving, I was doing them from a backyard, and didnt have one of them braced correctly. It tipped over and hit my younger daughter in the thigh resulting in a huge bruise and a decent sized cut. And alcohol was probably a factor.
Ever since Ive had nightmares about what would have happened if had hit her in the face. I now stick to commercial displays (which she still loves), but still have to be close enough to feel the ashes falling on us
if JPP had met with Ronnie Barnes beforehand. The team wants him back on the field as quickly as possible. If amputation is the quickest way there, they'd be for it. But you don't need an extra voice in the room saying what we already know.
but Plaxico shooting himself? Chad jones almost loses his leg. Wilson retiring at 22 to a spinal injury. Why does this shit seem to only happen to us??
Wasn't that the finger that blocked the kick in Dallas...
...that propelled the Giants to the Super Bowl in the 2011 season?
That was one heroic finger. RIP
JPP will come back and be a force this year. If Jim Abbott can pitch in major league baseball with one hand, JPP can play defensive end with nine fingers. He's a phenomenal athlete and will overcome this. Bank on it.
don't perform amputations to get guys back on the field quicker. They just don't.
Obvioualy it was beyond repait and to avoid infection they took it off.
as others have stated, I'm pretty sure that was the finger responsible for the blocked FG against Dallas. I wonder what kind of money that finger would fetch in an auction?
Giants really have to be considering pulling the tender
I feel bad on a human level for JPP. He's disabled for life. I feel selfishly bad as a fan of the NYG that this guy just rocked the team I love and has on top of that handled it in my opinion as selfishly as he could have.
If I'm the Giants, I really think about this. They can get out now. They'd get slammed for letting a star player go, but those funds can be used elsewhere.
Did not have his finger amputated to play in one game. It was crushed during the 85 season. After the season was over he had the tip of the finger amputated to shorten the amount of time he would be off the field. Otherwise he was looking at a fairly long recovery.
Psychologically JJP could be shot and career never the same.
if he can't play we don't pay him and who are we going to spend that salary on this year anyway? It's a 1 year deal with pretty much no downside at this point. We already missed out on the big FAs, might as well ride it out and hope he's ready to play.
A new JPP, pissed off about the media, pissed off about the doubts, pissed off about his missing finger, and pissed off about the tag...breaks the sack record (23 sacks) this year propelling the Giants to their 5th Super Bowl. Go Giants!
RE: Psychologically JJP could be shot and career never the same.
. I can't see him playing ball till mid season if that
The psychological impact could be worse than the physical setbacks from having one less digit which I imagine will handicap his performance even if he has a prosthetic
if he can't play we don't pay him and who are we going to spend that salary on this year anyway? It's a 1 year deal with pretty much no downside at this point. We already missed out on the big FAs, might as well ride it out and hope he's ready to play.
The salary cap space can be rolled over to next year, which would be a big help with Eli's extension.
Who really knows at this point...Giants 101 on Facebook
Jason Pierre-Paul is reportedly in no danger of additional amputations, but there is some concern he may have a fractured thumb (possibly requiring a pin).
Meanwhile, the index finger amputation was a full amputation.
A new JPP, pissed off about the media, pissed off about the doubts, pissed off about his missing finger, and pissed off about the tag...breaks the sack record (23 sacks) this year propelling the Giants to their 5th Super Bowl. Go Giants!
Post of the month.!! Get mad jpp!!! We got your back!
RE: Psychologically JJP could be shot and career never the same.
. I can't see him playing ball till mid season if that
Are you serious? Put your shoulders and be a man lol. I know a girl who had to have her ring finger amputated. It happened on her honey moon while jumping off a boat. Her ring caught on something and ripped off. She's a healthy normal person today.
JPP is certainly immature to say the least, but what a gut-wrenching
That is probably the most optimistic estimate he got and he probably based his actions upon that estimated time...
The other thing that comes into play, as I stated before, JPP says he is ready to play......the Giants say he isn't.....and what if the hand is injured because it wasn't ready?
That is probably the most optimistic estimate he got and he probably based his actions upon that estimated time...
The other thing that comes into play, as I stated before, JPP says he is ready to play......the Giants say he isn't.....and what if the hand is injured because it wasn't ready?
If its healthy enough to be put in a club and be okay, lets have JPP lead them onto the field in Dallas. Go big blue.
At least according to the doctor consulted by Raanan. Apparently the ring and pinky fingers are most important for "power grip" (along with the thumb I assume). I know that in golf the index finger pretty much rests on the club during the swing. The other 3 fingers grip the club. It's similar, I guess.
The linked article was written before it was known that he was having an amputation, but the doctor referred back to it in a tweet after the amputation, suggesting that amputation often offers the quickest recovery. Several medical websites that I've read suggest that humans adjust well to losing one finger.
I'm taking the optimistic view -- He'll start the season and he'll play well. link - ( New Window )
If Rappoport has a good source and can be trusted, no reason to doubt when he says the reason JPP wasn't contacting the team was because he was busy having major surgery that included a graft, pins and again getting his fucking finger cut off. That he was stonewalling is a pretty dorky outlook considering the week the dude had.
at the college level and i cannot fathom not having an index finger. Besides the thumb it would be the worst finger to lose entirely. The damage done to your pinky, ring finger, and middle finger on both hands is already substantial. What do you do to compensate for that lack of feel on an opposing shoulder, breastplate, elbow or wrist?
How do you grasp a jersey or plate on engagement and how do you compensate for the lack of ability on one hand?
How can you have effective gap responsibility knowing one of your hands is completely mangled? Do you start cheating on an inside or outside shoulder because you're concerned about the hand? Holy shit. I cannot imagine.
That's going to take time. And balls. And thousands of reps to get used to.
This is NOT Ronnie Lott folks. Lott played in space, picked his spots and for the most part attacked offensive players.
We're talking about a guy who is engaged with the offensive line every single play and his hands - along with his feet and vision - are the most important tools he has.
That said, I don't know that modern tools doctors, training staffs and teams can deploy to minimize this issue. Maybe there's a retrofitted glove or cast or brace or something we haven't thought of to minimize this problem for JPP. No idea.
All I know is that, when I envision myself on the DL with no index finger and undoubtedly other injuries to my hands...fuckin hell. Sounds like a nightmare.
So, his agent couldn't tell the Giants that he was having his finger
at the college level and i cannot fathom not having an index finger. Besides the thumb it would be the worst finger to lose entirely. The damage done to your pinky, ring finger, and middle finger on both hands is already substantial. What do you do to compensate for that lack of feel on an opposing shoulder, breastplate, elbow or wrist?
How do you grasp a jersey or plate on engagement and how do you compensate for the lack of ability on one hand?
How can you have effective gap responsibility knowing one of your hands is completely mangled? Do you start cheating on an inside or outside shoulder because you're concerned about the hand? Holy shit. I cannot imagine.
That's going to take time. And balls. And thousands of reps to get used to.
This is NOT Ronnie Lott folks. Lott played in space, picked his spots and for the most part attacked offensive players.
We're talking about a guy who is engaged with the offensive line every single play and his hands - along with his feet and vision - are the most important tools he has.
That said, I don't know that modern tools doctors, training staffs and teams can deploy to minimize this issue. Maybe there's a retrofitted glove or cast or brace or something we haven't thought of to minimize this problem for JPP. No idea.
All I know is that, when I envision myself on the DL with no index finger and undoubtedly other injuries to my hands...fuckin hell. Sounds like a nightmare.
great post B thanks for the insight. Wonder if there are any nfl rules about customized gloves or braces??
What this means is that the knuckle is removed as well as the whole finger. The purpose is to remove the "gap" that would be left if the knuckle remained.
This is what JPP's hand would look like:
I think he can remain a very productive football player.
if he can't play we don't pay him and who are we going to spend that salary on this year anyway? It's a 1 year deal with pretty much no downside at this point. We already missed out on the big FAs, might as well ride it out and hope he's ready to play.
The salary cap space can be rolled over to next year, which would be a big help with Eli's extension.
Ahh, didn't know that, thought it was use it or lose it.
i disagree with your statement. When you grasp a shoulder, plate, jersey or even an elbow the opposing player is moving constantly. Without that extra digit the pressure to the outside of the hand - namely the pinky and ringfinger - is magnified exponentially.
He might be better off playing with a "mitten" or some sort of protective glove that protects his other fingers and limits how he compensates for what he lacks.
It might not be a big deal in the end - but I just know how I played ball and my hands were everything.
And if you could see them today you'd see they are ruined pretty good. Every finger but my left index, right ring, and left thumb has been broken.
i disagree with your statement. When you grasp a shoulder, plate, jersey or even an elbow the opposing player is moving constantly. Without that extra digit the pressure to the outside of the hand - namely the pinky and ringfinger - is magnified exponentially.
He might be better off playing with a "mitten" or some sort of protective glove that protects his other fingers and limits how he compensates for what he lacks.
It might not be a big deal in the end - but I just know how I played ball and my hands were everything.
And if you could see them today you'd see they are ruined pretty good. Every finger but my left index, right ring, and left thumb has been broken.
B in ALB - I did not play the game and value your opinion highly because you did. I live in 'Cuse and enjoyed watching you play. The purpose of my post was to point out (pun intended) that the resection is designed to make the hand "whole" again and not feel like a digit is missing. Certainly it helps with fine motor skills like writing and working with small objects. I would trust your judgement on how it would impact his ability to get around an offensive lineman. I believe he will be able to work out, lift weights and do everything required to play. Let's see how it impacts his ability to play.
I'm telling you right now - he might as well have his right pinky removed while he's in the hospital. That thing will be broken at a 90 degree angle during his first snap and it's only going to get worse.
Plus. Let's not forget that he's on the right side and his right arm is his lever.
His rip inside, the shoot with an arm over, and his speed rush outside all dictates manipulation with his right hand. Not to mention his bar and arm over on the outside, the bull rush and the push/pull either side.
I can't imagine losing an entire finger, especially on my dominant hand. Jesus this creeps me out just thinking about it. I don't see how he can be 100% of the player he was. Mentally and physically it seems like a mountain to climb. I don't doubt eventually he'll get back to a pretty normal life and perform most tasks pretty well, if not a little clumsily, but that precise feeling your fingers provide can't be compensated for. I would assume his gripping, tossing, shedding abilities would be hampered as well. The kid made a mistake and he paid for it, may it be a lesson to all.
I hear you. He's going to have to use modern science and outfitting to make it work. The toughest game he'll play is with his mind. That's going to take time and effort and trust.
If he really lost his index finger - along with the other injuries being speculated - I would be very surprised if he ever comes close to his pinnacle years ago.
Certainly not worth a $15M/yr investment by the Giants.
This kid - unfortunately just cost himself a ton of money and bought a ton of stress and insecurity.
was to never say anything to the Giants until zero-day on the franchise tag signing. Either the Giants rescind and make him a free agent, or they shovel 15m to him without knowing his condition.
That had to be the plan before this leak.
David J. Chao, MD @ProFootballDoc 2h2 hours ago
Medical fact: Index finger is least important for power grip.
If this is JPP only injury, he will do fine in NFL.
Wish him the best.
David J. Chao, MD @ProFootballDoc 58m58 minutes ago
Split thickness skin graft for JPP is actually good news. Less severe than if other types or flap skin procedures. Best recovery/healing.
if this is true. JPP may lose out on a NYG contract, but he can sue ESPN, the hospital and the employee who leaked this info. I hope it was worth it to the employee who leaked it, cause they just lost their job. what a fucking amazing HIPAA violation if this is true.
Also, it doesnt say how much of the finger will be amputated or resectioned.
Honestly, I have a brother in law that lost his index finger from a
wrongly calibrated soda bottle injection mold machine.
The Problem JPP is going to have is seeing if the skin graft actually takes. The graft skin and surface area of the bone can break open and cause serious infection because its not a natural attachment of conformity to the body..meaning bone and skin around index area is being moved around to compensate which can have a tremendous adverse affect on healing part.
After Skin graft it really takes a year to know if Graft really works Otherwise, he will be in position with a never ending unhealing wound and this leads to bone dying around the hand and could lead to further amputation <this us what happened to my brother in law..he lost his thumb. but now it seems after second graft and a year later the graft is fine
David J. Chao, MD @ProFootballDoc 2h2 hours ago
Medical fact: Index finger is least important for power grip.
If this is JPP only injury, he will do fine in NFL.
Wish him the best.
David J. Chao, MD @ProFootballDoc 2h2 hours ago
Medical fact: Index finger is least important for power grip.
If this is JPP only injury, he will do fine in NFL.
Wish him the best.
interesting but how bad is the rest of his hand?
That seems to be the more important thing right now..
David J. Chao, MD @ProFootballDoc 2h2 hours ago
If index finger amputation only injury, JPP @giants will have full recovery & play. Worry is what else injured, blast rarely contained.
RE: Honestly, I have a brother in law that lost his index finger from a
In comment 12363007 Rich Houston-NYG-WR-1971 said:
Quote:
wrongly calibrated soda bottle injection mold machine.
The Problem JPP is going to have is seeing if the skin graft actually takes. The graft skin and surface area of the bone can break open and cause serious infection because its not a natural attachment of conformity to the body..meaning bone and skin around index area is being moved around to compensate which can have a tremendous adverse affect on healing part.
After Skin graft it really takes a year to know if Graft really works Otherwise, he will be in position with a never ending unhealing wound and this leads to bone dying around the hand and could lead to further amputation <this us what happened to my brother in law..he lost his thumb. but now it seems after second graft and a year later the graft is fine
if this is true. JPP may lose out on a NYG contract, but he can sue ESPN, the hospital and the employee who leaked this info. I hope it was worth it to the employee who leaked it, cause they just lost their job. what a fucking amazing HIPAA violation if this is true.
Also, it doesnt say how much of the finger will be amputated or resectioned.
David J. Chao, MD @ProFootballDoc 2h2 hours ago
If a medical provider leaked JPP medical information, that's a big HIPAA violation. Media like @AdamSchefter are not subject to those laws.
David J. Chao, MD @ProFootballDoc 1h1 hour ago
HIPAA laws targeted at initial leak of info (healthcare workers, hospitals, insurances) not at media or others that repeat information.
like some sort of graft will happen. In any event, The healing process is key and that area will be tender for about year. JPP should not exercise until that area is completely healed with no bruising marks. One infection in this process would be devastating for him..I don't think rushing him back in two months is the correct timetable
amputate, Like I said last night, some of the best Burn centers are in the Northeast, instead of paying for 60k stripper parties, JPP could have gotten a Medvac to Hospital for Special Surgery or Saint Barnabus Burn Center in Livingston, NJ and get real expert advice before making a snap decision to amputate his finger because a quack in Florida gave him that option right away. JPP really got some bad advice here IMO. And I agree..there will be a psychological impact that is going to affect him
Ralph Vacchiano @RVacchianoNYDN 39s40 seconds ago
RT @NYDNSports: Source: Info on JPP's condition may have been released from his camp http://nydn.us/1MgrgAZ
Has any media source had to pay a price for running with information
I mean, this is Disney we're talking about. They pay lawyers fortunes just to stand around on call in case they might be needed.
I would bet that once they got the information, there were a few phone calls made to a few offices to be sure they weren't going to get sued for millions.
JPP really fucked up here..with breaks in the thumb
"For evil flourished everywhere and lay on the land like a festering malignancy. There was one hope though, in a distant land, the noble Aragorn, heir to empty throne on Gondor awaited the small band to return and become king. But he could not triumph until the ring was destroyed, so went the prophecy."
that no one addressed, but how will this impact his ability to lift? As someone who has lifted weights somewhat seriously at points in my life a lot of compound lifts like deadlifts, rows, etc require grip strength to lift heavy weights. Losing a finger certainly won't help
it sucks for JPP and sucks for the Giants. But you know what? A lot goes wrong for these guys during the offseason...at least he didn't get suspended for breaking the law or being an a**hole.
is a problem but I disagree with B in Alb about this finger vs the outside pinky and ring fingers. You get more strength on your grip from these fingers.
It will be a big adjustment to shed blocks but if everything else is working he should be fine.
I'm sure this is what the doctors told him too which led to the decision. If he gets on a field and performs this season he'll get a big payday. I'm sure that was the biggest factor with the decision.
This is a league where a big deal is made if a guy has arms that are an inch shorter than someone else's. We're talking about a guy not only missing a finger but coming off a terrible injury and presumably missing all or a lot of camp.
If JPP were entering the draft in this condition he'd go undrafted, yet we should pay him $15 million? No thanks.
RE: Another thing that bothers me here is the rush of judgement to
In comment 12363037 Rich Houston-NYG-WR-1971 said:
Quote:
amputate, Like I said last night, some of the best Burn centers are in the Northeast, instead of paying for 60k stripper parties, JPP could have gotten a Medvac to Hospital for Special Surgery or Saint Barnabus Burn Center in Livingston, NJ and get real expert advice before making a snap decision to amputate his finger because a quack in Florida gave him that option right away. JPP really got some bad advice here IMO. And I agree..there will be a psychological impact that is going to affect him
Exactly my thought. Why wouldn't he allow the Giants to get involved and get him to a top notch doctor. To me not doing that shows more stupidity than the accident.
In comment 12363037 Rich Houston-NYG-WR-1971 said:
Quote:
get real expert advice before making a snap decision to amputate his finger because a quack in Florida gave him that option right away. JPP really got some bad advice here IMO.
Way to go with the over the top stereotypes. Because there can't possibly be good doctors outside the NE. There aren't top surgeons in many locations in the U.S.
that well-trained exercise physiologists can deal with that, over time.
The bad news, imo, is the over time part. I cannot imagine that he will be able to heal and then adapt to the physiological changes from the amputation and the other burns, and to the psychological damage and the adaptation related to that, in a single season.
The idea that he will be back to even a pale imitation of his prior self by, say, mid-season, is inconceivable to me. I wish I could think otherwise, but I just don't see how to get there.
Let's suppose he can actually perform well with three fingers and a custom-made glove or a club or whatever.
It's so odd to have a football player missing an index finger that I can see him getting more celebrity from this if he can come back and be effective.
The world is crazy that way.
It's been discussed he probably has medical coverage from nflpa
This is a league where a big deal is made if a guy has arms that are an inch shorter than someone else's. We're talking about a guy not only missing a finger but coming off a terrible injury and presumably missing all or a lot of camp.
If JPP were entering the draft in this condition he'd go undrafted, yet we should pay him $15 million? No thanks.
This is my thought right here. We would be killing Reese if the draft was held today for taking a guy in the 1st round top 5 that just had his finger amputated. I don't see how you can let that man sign anything until he waive whatever and prove he can still function as a pass rusher in the NFL. That's insane.
how could you possibly pay JPP $15m on a franchise tender with this type of injury. You simply can't. You cannot lock up that much cap space hoping he can play to form. This news is a big difference from the unknown situation we were in this morning.
I agree with Go Terps. JPP is now a large liability
Sure, we could extend Eli and/or Prince, but I'm betting Eli's dollars are already earmarked, and they want to see if Prince stays healthy this year before committing longterm to him too.
Sure, we could extend Eli and/or Prince, but I'm betting Eli's dollars are already earmarked, and they want to see if Prince stays healthy this year before committing longterm to him too.
There is plenty they can do with that cap space. Mathis, Jake Long? Others. Maybe JPP would be willing to sign a more workable deal on a prove it contract in light of this? Lot the Giants can do with tying up $15m bucks.
the average BBIer about his ability to return at a high level. The hands are just so damn important for DL-play. I think it's just absurd how some of you think this is going to be no big deal. I also appreciate B in ALB's posts because he has experience playing on the DL and has the same concerns I have.
But the "power grip" comment does make sense to me. I could see how the index finger wouldn't impact the "power grip" as much as the ring or middle. Hopefully that's the case.
RE: It's not like we can do anything with the cap space anyway
Sure, we could extend Eli and/or Prince, but I'm betting Eli's dollars are already earmarked, and they want to see if Prince stays healthy this year before committing longterm to him too.
Not true. The money can be rolled over into 2016. This is an enormous detail that seems to be ignored.
nyyng, JPP took the advice of the local Hospital doctor and not
giant staff..this seems apparent. He made a real fast decision and should have gotten a real Specialist decision.. and Yes,,when it comes to Doctors in South Florida..I do beleive the talent is subpar to what is up in Northeast.
He has the money, He should have went to best specialist he could find.
For Instance..If it were his knee I am sure he would see James Andrews. Saint Barnabus Burn Center in NJ and HSS are the best hospitals for Burn and recovery care
RE: RE: It's not like we can do anything with the cap space anyway
Sure, we could extend Eli and/or Prince, but I'm betting Eli's dollars are already earmarked, and they want to see if Prince stays healthy this year before committing longterm to him too.
Not true. The money can be rolled over into 2016. This is an enormous detail that seems to be ignored.
My brain isnt working right now, but are you saying we have an extra 15 million if we let him walk?
also says the index finger is the least important digit for a power grip. So, I feel like that's actionable information from a reliable, educated source.
It appears the Giants have enough information now to make an educated first step in the process. It will take an undetermined amount of time for him to get back on the field, and 15M is just a bad investment when you have the option to decrease the cost. The wisest thing the Giants can do is transparently and cooperatively rescind the tender offer and make a good faith one year offer to him. That puts the ball in his court. With an injury that bad, and all of the uncertainty that will come, his value is very low and he will not sniff 15M guaranteed from anyone. Even if the Giants offered him 10M and were able to recoup a third of the cost and roll that over that would be a win.
Did not Ronnie Lott have part of his finger amputated mid-season
Sure, we could extend Eli and/or Prince, but I'm betting Eli's dollars are already earmarked, and they want to see if Prince stays healthy this year before committing longterm to him too.
There is plenty they can do with that cap space. Mathis, Jake Long? Others. Maybe JPP would be willing to sign a more workable deal on a prove it contract in light of this? Lot the Giants can do with tying up $15m bucks.
I see the point, but I think if they wanted to sign Mathis and/or Jake Long, they would do it already. IIRC, we still have cap space and the ability to extend Eli to create more.
If JPP was willing to sign a 1 yr prove it kind of deal, that'd probably be best for all parties involved. But technically, he's not a Giant till he signs the tag. So if they pull the tag, what's to make him sign back here? He can sign anywhere for likely more money and more years. So it's kind of a catch-22 for the Giants.
Do you pull the tag and potentially lose the player? Or do you pay him the full 15 million and hope he plays at a high level in his prove it year?
Leaking the info from the hospital is really bad...
Someone probably snapped a pic with the cell phone. A very good friend of mine works at Robert Wood Johnson in NJ. She was involved with the care of Tracy Morgan. She absolutely would not give up anything about his status. To this day even though he has been gone for a while, she will not speak about it at all. Citing immediate firing as the penalty.
RE: Did not Ronnie Lott have part of his finger amputated mid-season
Someone probably snapped a pic with the cell phone. A very good friend of mine works at Robert Wood Johnson in NJ. She was involved with the care of Tracy Morgan. She absolutely would not give up anything about his status. To this day even though he has been gone for a while, she will not speak about it at all. Citing immediate firing as the penalty.
Listen we already know that moral and ethics matter more to some more than others.
yes, the hospitals you mention are great institutions. But there are plenty of fine surgeons around the country. I am not disagreeing that JPP should get the best care and should not rush or get second opinions. But you have no idea who he consulted or who his doctors consulted over the last four days. You don't even know if there was even a question on amputation.
If P.Owens was the surgeon and it is at U of Miami Medical Center, then that guy is a hand specialist and seems to have a solid background. And had a fellowship at HSS btw.
RE: RE: RE: It's not like we can do anything with the cap space anyway
Sure, we could extend Eli and/or Prince, but I'm betting Eli's dollars are already earmarked, and they want to see if Prince stays healthy this year before committing longterm to him too.
Not true. The money can be rolled over into 2016. This is an enormous detail that seems to be ignored.
My brain isnt working right now, but are you saying we have an extra 15 million if we let him walk?
That's what he is slated to earn in 2015 under the franchise tag. If the Giants drop the tag, he becomes a free agent and the money they had earmarked they can now use elsewhere, including rolling over into 2016.
It's a no brainer. If JJ Watt had this exact injury at this exact time, would you want the Giants to give him a 1 year 15 million deal?
It;s the amputation plus other burns on the same hand and the other hand. At this point, we have no idea whatsoever how much other damage was done, or the time frame for the other healing.
Yeah, it's probably less than on the amputated finger, but the effect could be cumulative. How would we know at this point--or even how would the Giants know, given how little cooperation they have gotten from JPP?
of a DE rotation that includes unproven Damontre Moore, Ayers coming back off surgery, George Selvie, a raw Odi, and Wynn. I'd think we'd need one more if we're going the rescind route.
Kinda lacks the star quality we're expecting out of our DE's.
RE: I agree with Go Terps. JPP is now a large liability
And in how many of your examples, did we need to get a very high level replacement in mid-July for the upcoming season?
I agree it shouldn't be as much of an issue by next year, but this year? He won't be replaced effectively, I suspect. At the very least, it's a drop down in talent at a position where the next best player is a significant step down, and each succeeding player is likely another drop down.
This was Jason Pierre-Pauls decision to amputate his finger. This sounds like a Ronnie Lott situation. Hes still in surgery now.
24 retweets 6 favorites
back then players would play with 1 arm and still be effective, now no chance.
Based on the original assumption that JPP's injuries weren't so serious, I was in the camp that said the "get rid of JPP" crowd was being too impulsive.
The biggest reason for my view (which I still believe) is that if you take JPP off of this team, the Giants are much less likely to seriously challenge for the division. He's one of the top 4-5 players on the team.
But as Go Terps points out, you have to factor in at some point what kind of player are you getting for $15 million and could that money be spent better.
Tuck your index finger into your hand and try to pick something up (and pretend it's cut off at the knuckle). Normal people can adapt but JPP has an unusual profession where hand play is critical. I can't imagine that this won't impact his game.
I always felt that if JPP got a huge contract that he
Osi comes to mind, lol. Is adding Osi the difference in winning the division this year? I don't think so, but I guess one never knows.
It comes down to whether the Giants think JPP can perform with three fingers and a thumb on his left hand. But, technically, he's not a Giant until he signs the franchise tag. If he signs the tag, he gets the 15 million. If the Giants rescind the tag, he surely signs somewhere else who is willing to take on the risk.
So, when are they permitted to look at him and evaluate whether he can actually be effective as is? It's the weirdest catch 22 I've ever seen.
too is this is a new defense and both Spagnuolo and Nunn said he was already behind because of the missed work in the spring. Nunn was positive he could catch up if he came to training camp in the right frame of mind and he worked at it. But he can't do that now. Hell, he may not sign the tender at all until the regular season (the NFI shit) and because of that, he'll miss the classroom stuff too.
RE: RE: Generally, HIPAA protects a patient's confidential medical information
from being disclosed to a third party by a medical provider, health plan or health clearinghouse without the patient's consent. Clearly ESPN is not his medical provider or health plan.
ESPN can still be liable if they had reason to believe the information was obtained illegally.
And you know this from your day job of being a.......ESPN wannabe stat nerd?
here has to be a long one. Getting used to your hand taking on a completely new dimension has to be a challenge let alone the soreness and pain Once the hand takes on contact it will throb. JPP and the Giants are screwed this year. Hope we find new talent to replace him. As someone said next man up.
it sucks for JPP and sucks for the Giants. But you know what? A lot goes wrong for these guys during the offseason...at least he didn't get suspended for breaking the law or being an a**hole.
That would be worse.
Umm... he still has that issue out there too but I kinda knew it was bad when the police seem to be giving off we don't want to kick him when he is down. But his legal trouble may not be over.
it sucks for JPP and sucks for the Giants. But you know what? A lot goes wrong for these guys during the offseason...at least he didn't get suspended for breaking the law or being an a**hole.
That would be worse.
Umm... he still has that issue out there too but I kinda knew it was bad when the police seem to be giving off we don't want to kick him when he is down. But his legal trouble may not be over.
this isn't like carrying a gun in NY like Plax. Several law enforcement departments have said they aren't pressing charges. He's pretty clear legally.
He's been a total selfish dick this whole team. You'd think the thought would have crossed his mind that perhaps seeing as how this is a contract year if ever he were put his mind to it, it'd be now and instead he tweets and brags about his fireworks without a care in the world.
Just shows you what a total, clueless,mi nature, irresponsible man child he is who will never take anything seriously. Eff him and his mindlessness.
Not letting the Giants in to see him and considering seeing their doctor.
He can't play the card of "it's business, I'm looking out for myself."
Clearly he is a man child that doesn't take anything seriously, and now, now...he is going to shun the Giants well intended medical staff for his own "well-being" that he suddenly cares about? Please.
That cannot be dismissed, Roenbeck said. Theres no guarantee he can be the same defensive end he was. It changes your hand forever and narrows the palm.
Some people lose up to 35 percent of their strength when losing an index finger, others as little as 5 to 10 percent, Roenbeck said.
also hilarious commentary by you guys regarding his medical records
Beckham should stop practicing these one hand catches so much before he cracks a few fingers too. He's been posting videos of them coming out the juggs machine so they aren't the light tosses we have all seen pregame
He can't play the card of "it's business, I'm looking out for myself."
Why not? It's his life, it's his career and it's his finger. The Giants are his employer. Lots of people wouldn't trust their employer to give them the best advice. If the Giants don't like it, they can let him go. And he doesn't even have a signed contract at this point.
Quote:
Clearly he is a man child that doesn't take anything seriously
Yeah, man child, sure very clear. No other adults like fireworks. No other adults get hurt doing things that entail some risk. Motorcycles,skiing, jumping off cliffs, shooting.Lots of people do stuff like this. Hell the VP of the US accidentally shot a guy a few years back.
He's stupid, incredibly stupid, but he didn't rape or murder anyone, like some have done in the league, or drive around drunk and hit or kill anyone either, like some have done in the league, and he didn't beat up some woman or kid like many have done in the league. No drugs or guns either.
It's just a really, really bad decision that has now permanently effected his life, and I do feel bad for him.
He's stupid, incredibly stupid, but he didn't rape or murder anyone, like some have done in the league, or drive around drunk and hit or kill anyone either, like some have done in the league, and he didn't beat up some woman or kid like many have done in the league. No drugs or guns either.
It's just a really, really bad decision that has now permanently effected his life, and I do feel bad for him.
But the decision hurt our favorite sports team so he's a terrible person!
He can't play the card of "it's business, I'm looking out for myself."
Why not? It's his life, it's his career and it's his finger. The Giants are his employer. Lots of people wouldn't trust their employer to give them the best advice. If the Giants don't like it, they can let him go. And he doesn't even have a signed contract at this point.
Quote:
Clearly he is a man child that doesn't take anything seriously
Yeah, man child, sure very clear. No other adults like fireworks. No other adults get hurt doing things that entail some risk. Motorcycles,skiing, jumping off cliffs, shooting.Lots of people do stuff like this. Hell the VP of the US accidentally shot a guy a few years back.
1). If he cared so much about taking care of himself, if this was a business and such a serious job, then why the hell is he buying, using, and then bragging on social media about this with total disregard to being in a contract year and the inherent danger?
2). This guy didn't just hold a juiced sparkler. He bought an obnoxious display of explosives and posted them on Twitter as if to say "look at me, look at me!," like many of the selfie loving "MIllENALS."
Then, after he gets hurt, when the grown ups show up, he shuts them off like a kid avoiding angry parent.
He gets defensive like the Giants, who've coached, drafted, developed, and paid him are the boogy man out to screw him.
No, he's just an irresponsible obnoxious selfi millineal whose in it for his own fame.....fine...but don't stiff the Giants acting like you suddenly take the job and business seriously. You're a clown.
This was a catastrophic accident. It's was nightmarish, unbelievable occurance for both team and player.
He blew up his hand and apparently his arm. He's lost a finger and he has a long road of rehab ahead of him. Skin graphs take time to take hold and heal. He won't be able to lift weights because you can't put pressure on the new skin. He will experience atrophy in the other fingers as well. It will take months of rehab to get his power back.
He's not playing this season. With that in mind, the Giants can't leave the franchise tender on the table.
He can't play the card of "it's business, I'm looking out for myself."
Why not? It's his life, it's his career and it's his finger. The Giants are his employer. Lots of people wouldn't trust their employer to give them the best advice. If the Giants don't like it, they can let him go. And he doesn't even have a signed contract at this point.
Quote:
Clearly he is a man child that doesn't take anything seriously
Yeah, man child, sure very clear. No other adults like fireworks. No other adults get hurt doing things that entail some risk. Motorcycles,skiing, jumping off cliffs, shooting.Lots of people do stuff like this. Hell the VP of the US accidentally shot a guy a few years back.
1). If he cared so much about taking care of himself, if this was a business and such a serious job, then why the hell is he buying, using, and then bragging on social media about this with total disregard to being in a contract year and the inherent danger?
2). This guy didn't just hold a juiced sparkler. He bought an obnoxious display of explosives and posted them on Twitter as if to say "look at me, look at me!," like many of the selfie loving "MIllENALS."
Then, after he gets hurt, when the grown ups show up, he shuts them off like a kid avoiding angry parent.
He gets defensive like the Giants, who've coached, drafted, developed, and paid him are the boogy man out to screw him.
No, he's just an irresponsible obnoxious selfi millineal whose in it for his own fame.....fine...but don't stiff the Giants acting like you suddenly take the job and business seriously. You're a clown.
Right, this could only happen to a millennial (spell check is totally a millennial thing). No Generation-X or Baby Boomer has EVER EVER EVER done something like this. Fuck off your high horse Grandpa.
its these millennial's that are going to have to clean up this debt ridden ecological shit storm of a world you passed on to us. So please please please choke own my dick every time you cash one of OUR social security payments that we are going to be paying to YOUR "me now" generation.
If you do not want to give him the 15M this year, how much do you think other teams will. That is the question.
I can easily see a scenario where the Giants make him a FA and another team comes in a gives him a contract with promise to re-do after a prove it year. He could get signed to a 3yr 18M contract with a 15M signing bonus and redo after a year
How does this benefit the Giants.
Long is not cleared for anything and Mathis wants mutli yr 8M per year. Reason no team has signed him
He did have surgery yesterday correct? Generally after surgery isnt it standard to only allow immediate family visit the patient? If so it would make sense that his employer would not have permission to see him.
With that said I am pretty sure the Giants would be able to get a good amount of information from his doctors even without seeing him? And being the ESPN got it pretty sure our doctors would have a better chance getting more info.
In regards to cutting bait with him, why? The team holds all the cards, its not costing them a cent right now and wont if he signs until they feel he can be productive. He could very well come back from this with a new look on life and a renewed drive on and off the field. Like the saying goes you dont know what you have until its gone. Well he could have lost it all not just his career. The cutting and walking away talk is just nonsense IMO. Granted this is only my opinion of many posted here but my hope is not only he returns with a new found appreciation of what he has, but also a renewed drive to make the most of it.
Only time will tell. And the Giants have all the time in the world in this case.
Pure speculation, obviously: The decision to accelerate the healing process to ensure he's on the field leads me to believe he's broke and needs this paycheck.
Pure speculation, obviously: The decision to accelerate the healing process to ensure he's on the field leads me to believe he's broke and needs this paycheck.
Really hope you are wrong for his sake. I don't see how he is getting a "material" contract without proving performance post-injury, rehab. This really sucks for him, as a human being I feel really bad for him. But the Giants can't give him a large contract right now.
If the media can obtain our medical records and publish them for the world to see then how in the hell does HIPAA provide any level of protection for us at all?
I'd like the morons in government who allowed this exemption to answer this. And I'd like the assholes in the media to grow a conscience!
If the media can obtain our medical records and publish them for the world to see then how in the hell does HIPAA provide any level of protection for us at all?
I'd like the morons in government who allowed this exemption to answer this. And I'd like the assholes in the media to grow a conscience!
It is. If you're not a public figure, and for some reason they decided to publish your medical records, you could sue for invasion of privacy. Otherwise, barring the media from publishing such information, or holding them liable for it, would violate the first amendment.
RE: RE: ESPN claims the media is exempt from HIPAA
If the media can obtain our medical records and publish them for the world to see then how in the hell does HIPAA provide any level of protection for us at all?
I'd like the morons in government who allowed this exemption to answer this. And I'd like the assholes in the media to grow a conscience!
It is. If you're not a public figure, and for some reason they decided to publish your medical records, you could sue for invasion of privacy. Otherwise, barring the media from publishing such information, or holding them liable for it, would violate the first amendment.
"If your not a public figure"? Who gets to make that determination. At what point do athletes become public figures? If I'm a great ball player in high school being seriously scouted by a college, does that then make me a public figure? Where is the line? At what point does a person become legally qualified as a "public figure"? The exemption is ridiculous and the last people I would ever exempt from any privacy rules are the people with the biggest mouths, the irresponsible media! Unbelievable!
But in this case, it's pretty clear that JPP is a public figure.
Courts draw the line after the fact when the damage has already been done. What good is that and we, the abused, have to come up with the time and money to hire lawyers to take on the big media in court in the first place. Why the hell is the media exempt in the first place? Why do they have any right's to a public figure's medical records? The only level I think THE PEOPLE not the media have a right to know would MAYBE be for the President of the country as so much rides on the mental state of this person who ever he may be.
I like the idea above that suggests the Giants pull his tag
and offer him less money for the year, maybe 10 million or so. He would still lose money for every game he missed, but he would make decent money if and when he eventually returns to the team. Face it, no other team is offering him big money to play this year or in the future until they see what he can do.
I just don't see JPP helping the team this year. He won't be able to workout for weeks. That hurts his strength for sure. And, who is training him? He's not talking to the Giants, so who will be working with him on this? The bottom line is, I don't see him playing better than healthy DEs we have on the team or who may still be available in free agency. That's the question the Giants need make a decision on. Will JPP actually be able to play better than other DEs to justify the big money?
Update on Jason Pierre-Paul's amputation: Not only did Doctors remove his right index finger, but they removed his knuckle as well -- all the way down to the palm.
You never make business decisions based on emotion
The Giants are a well run business and I trust they won't here. The "move on right now" crowd aren't thinking straight, they are just reacting emotionally. You don't just give up an asset. especially one that won't cost you a dime until he can play. The cap room does no good right now. There is nowhere to spend it. The potential Eli/Prince extensions wouldn't affect this year's cap any way. By the time we need the $ for them JPP will be gone. Sure what he did was idiotic, and the behavior and atmosphere around this whole situation the past few days has been bizarre to say the least. However just getting rid of him is silly if there is a chance he can help the team at some point this season. I know there is a ton of doom and gloom, but who the hell knows how this team will perform. Guys can surprise. Rookies/2nd year guys can step up. Did anyone imagine a year ago at this time that OBJ would be on the cover of Madden right now?? Maybe JPP isn't ready until week 6 and we are in the thick of it, and when he comes back he can help.
But in this case, it's pretty clear that JPP is a public figure.
Courts draw the line after the fact when the damage has already been done. What good is that and we, the abused, have to come up with the time and money to hire lawyers to take on the big media in court in the first place. Why the hell is the media exempt in the first place? Why do they have any right's to a public figure's medical records? The only level I think THE PEOPLE not the media have a right to know would MAYBE be for the President of the country as so much rides on the mental state of this person who ever he may be.
It's called freedom of the press.
They don't have a "right" to the records. But if it falls into their hands, they can choose to publish it.
RE: You never make business decisions based on emotion
The Giants are a well run business and I trust they won't here. The "move on right now" crowd aren't thinking straight, they are just reacting emotionally. You don't just give up an asset. especially one that won't cost you a dime until he can play. The cap room does no good right now. There is nowhere to spend it. The potential Eli/Prince extensions wouldn't affect this year's cap any way. By the time we need the $ for them JPP will be gone. Sure what he did was idiotic, and the behavior and atmosphere around this whole situation the past few days has been bizarre to say the least. However just getting rid of him is silly if there is a chance he can help the team at some point this season. I know there is a ton of doom and gloom, but who the hell knows how this team will perform. Guys can surprise. Rookies/2nd year guys can step up. Did anyone imagine a year ago at this time that OBJ would be on the cover of Madden right now?? Maybe JPP isn't ready until week 6 and we are in the thick of it, and when he comes back he can help.
I would agree with you if I thought he could ever be a decent player again. I don't believe he can be and for the level of play I believe he will be able to put on the field in 2015 I think we can match it with somebody allot cheaper. Or, alternatively, I'd rather give the Rookie OWA the experience because I'll bet if you let OWA play the whole 2015 season he'll give you a better level of play in 2016 then you'll get from JPP.
JPP's agent(s) released the charts in support of their story that he chose amputation for the good of the team and to get back on the field faster. It's an effort to put lipstick on this pig of a situation.
I'm still trying to figure out why JPP would assume the Giants would welcome that choice without discussing it with them first.
ESPN didn't violate HIPAA. Someone at the hospital did, and I expect JPP to sue the hospital. Can't touch ESPN though.
Schefter in that photo also posted some lady records and they are not a public figure. Apparently, ESPN is not protected against her coming after both them and hospital. Lack of cropping may cost them.
That the Giants may decide to NOT place JPP on the NFI list and pay him, provided he attends meetings and learn Spags' system. I'm curious though if they are allowed to place him on the PUP list to start the season. Technically I think he hasn't practiced yet, but unsure with the tag process if there is some stipulation. Anyone know?
That the Giants may decide to NOT place JPP on the NFI list and pay him, provided he attends meetings and learn Spags' system. I'm curious though if they are allowed to place him on the PUP list to start the season. Technically I think he hasn't practiced yet, but unsure with the tag process if there is some stipulation. Anyone know?
They can't do anything right now as he's not under contract as an employee of the New York Giants. Not sure if that answers your question
Well, if he signs, he's on the team. I'd think as long as it's medically justified that he is in fact hurt, he would go on PUP. I don't know of any rule that would prevent them from doing so. If he's hurt, he's hurt. Even if it's a non-football injury.
I think the Giants as others have said need to pull the tender,
make him a short term offer and if he thinks he can do better somewhere elsse, let him go. His value to the team has most definetly changed and it should be reflected in how he gets paid.
That the Giants may decide to NOT place JPP on the NFI list and pay him, provided he attends meetings and learn Spags' system. I'm curious though if they are allowed to place him on the PUP list to start the season. Technically I think he hasn't practiced yet, but unsure with the tag process if there is some stipulation. Anyone know?
This was the trial balloon that I think JPP's agent floated out there through Kim Jones. It is clear from Kim's piece that JPP's agent is trying to get the Giants to commit to pay JPP ALL of the money in the tender offer and agree not to put him on NFI when he signs the tender offer. IMO, it goes over like a lead balloon in the Giants front office.
I think the Giants are going to be clear that 1) he signs the tender without any demands or conditions; 2) that he lets Giants doctors and staff examine the hand and medical records and then 3) they begin talking about next steps after the Giants get the information and signing in 1 and 2. Until then, the Giants do not have to do a thing and JPP's agent can posture all he wants.
I agree with nygiantsfan that this was a millenial thing with
posting the pic of fireworks out on twitter as an attempt to show the public play by play of his great life in realtime.
I noticed JPP isn't twittering pics now, How come? I guess when you blow half your hand off that is something you can't selfie...it wouldn't appeal to bling bling crowd.
Giants should not sign this guy. Why reward a guy with 15 million for stupidity?
RE: I agree with nygiantsfan that this was a millenial thing with
In comment 12364549 Rich Houston-NYG-WR-1971 said:
Quote:
posting the pic of fireworks out on twitter as an attempt to show the public play by play of his great life in realtime.
I noticed JPP isn't twittering pics now, How come? I guess when you blow half your hand off that is something you can't selfie...it wouldn't appeal to bling bling crowd.
Giants should not sign this guy. Why reward a guy with 15 million for stupidity?
I'm the one that said it was a dumb millennial man child thing by somebody who doesn't take anything seriously.....and to answer another posters comment...I am not a Grandpa...I'm a few years older than JPP and younger than Eli.
Link - ( New Window )
Someone should be getting fired over that chart getting released.
As stupid as he was, I feel terrible for JPP and hope he's saved well to this point. It's cold, but the Giants have to rescind the franchise tender now though.
*Shrugs*
Giants DE Jason Pierre-Paul finger amputated today. Medical source expects him to play this season, "sooner than people think."
BeerFridge : 7:14 pm : link : reply
.
It's one thing to speculate about the situation without knowing the facts. It's another to make that comment knowing the severity of the injury to another person. Shameful.
Not according to ESPN. How the hell can he play?
Without a finger and skin grafts on the rest of his hand?
He'll play again or try to, but he's not seeing an NFL field for at least most of this season and any dreams of a big pay day after this season are gone for him.
Ive never played DL but lineman have jacked up hands all the time. I'm assuming it's integral to leverage and initial contact. I could be wrong. I don't know. What's why I asked.
What kind of firework was this?
A DE with limited ability to grab and tackle?
Thinking of Jason Pierre-Paul is this: Cutting off his finger simplifies and accelerates his recovery. Could be back in fewer than 2 months
i feel really bad for JPP
regardless how you feel about his judgement
noone should ever have an accident like this
What kind of firework was this?
Based on the video and pictures of the uhaul, i dont think he was transporting sparklers or bottle rockets around.
This was Jason Pierre-Pauls decision to amputate his finger. This sounds like a Ronnie Lott situation. Hes still in surgery now.
24 retweets 6 favorites
Thinking of Jason Pierre-Paul is this: Cutting off his finger simplifies and accelerates his recovery. Could be back in fewer than 2 months
Stupid question, are there prosthetic fingers?
Any money JPP loses he will more than make up by suing ESPN
That's some bullshit right there
The #Giants were unaware of any fingers of JPP being amputated until reading the @AdamSchefter report.
Correct. He's a fucking moron.
This explains why Jason Pierre-Paul wasnt seeing anyone: He was having surgeries on his hand. Pins in bones, grafts, etc.
What kind of firework was this?
Usual suspects are m80's, blockbusters and mortars
The #Giants were unaware of any fingers of JPP being amputated until reading the @AdamSchefter report.
Case in point. Giants had guys down there for 2 days. This couldn't have be made known?
Ridiculous and stupid. Some guys can't see the human being through their Giant blue glasses.
Dave in Hoboken : 7:20 pm : link : reply
Anyone else blown away?
No class.
As for the chart, whoever leaked it at the hospital should be fired and ESPN should be in serious hot water...unless JPP doesn't care.
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This is incredible.
Dave in Hoboken : 7:20 pm : link : reply
Anyone else blown away?
No class.
Holy shit. I honestly didn't even think of it that way. My bad. If so, I would just admit it. Sorry about that. I am honestly just shocked and at this point, I do feel for the guy as dumb of a decision as it was.
I hope that is not the case but losing an idex finger......man. that is so tough
Sure....from a medicsl stand point.....he might be able to play......but how well will he play?
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Lithium has a boner out for this guy.
Correct. He's a fucking moron.
As are you. You seriously need to GTFOH. You're posts have been nothing but useless noise.
Take a step back and think about it.
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In comment 12362571 David in LA said:
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Lithium has a boner out for this guy.
Correct. He's a fucking moron.
As are you. You seriously need to GTFOH. You're posts have been nothing but useless noise.
He got his wish, JPP lost a body part.
Pathetic fuck.
If Ronnie Lott could play DB without a finger and tackle, JPP will be able to play DE.
How long until Beckham breaks some fingers practicing his one handed catches?
It has nothing to do with a curse when someone stupid does something stupid.
This and stuff like Plaxico shooting himself fall under that, unfortunately.
Take a step back and think about it.
Go pick up something. Then tell me not having your index finger doesn't limit that ability.
If I had to guess, I would say yes . Most of the lost fingers are by any of the explosive fireworks . A blockbuster is a 1/4 stick of dynamite . Mortars are the next, when they don't go off people go to check on the pipe and they explode or shoot them in the face.
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In comment 12362581 Lithium said:
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In comment 12362571 David in LA said:
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Lithium has a boner out for this guy.
Correct. He's a fucking moron.
As are you. You seriously need to GTFOH. You're posts have been nothing but useless noise.
He got his wish, JPP lost a body part.
Is this real
Fish : 8:46 pm : link : reply
http://m.liveleak.com/view?i=1bf_1436201220
Pathetic fuck.
Lesson learned. Moronic behavior could lead to amputation.
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unless it was his thumb I don't see how he's "limited" in anything really. Maybe jersey grabbing?
Take a step back and think about it.
Go pick up something. Then tell me not having your index finger doesn't limit that ability.
This ^^^^
If you use poor judgement it carries consequences. When you associate yourself with people of poor judgement it will have a negative impact on you.
This is why so many of us value character and intelligence in the young men the Giants bring into the organization. Far too often disregarding those tenets results in serious damage to the teams competitive results and public perception.
It sounds like ESPN and even the hospital aren't likely in that deep of trouble re: JPP's info being released, thanks to the NFLPA being the NFL's bitches.
The issue that some on Twitter are now bringing up is that another patient's info is visible on the document and that individual didn't have their rights under the HIPAA all but taken away by a CBA.
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In comment 12362601 David in LA said:
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In comment 12362581 Lithium said:
Quote:
In comment 12362571 David in LA said:
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Lithium has a boner out for this guy.
Correct. He's a fucking moron.
As are you. You seriously need to GTFOH. You're posts have been nothing but useless noise.
He got his wish, JPP lost a body part.
Is this real
Fish : 8:46 pm : link : reply
http://m.liveleak.com/view?i=1bf_1436201220
Pathetic fuck.
Lesson learned. Moronic behavior could lead to amputation.
I bet you're real disappointed it wast worse, huh? Like the hand or whole arm you were originally hoping for?
Like I said before, you're a pathetic fuck.
only sparklers from now on imo.
i dont think his career is over, but he cost himself tens of millions no doubt.
LOL....ok.
I don't feel bad for this guy one bit. If you are so stupid with millions of dollars sitting at the end of your pen to be blowing fireworks up before using that pen, you deserve to end or seriously jeopardize your career. MORON.
if he only had burns and flesh JPP and his agent wouldve been way out in front of the dilemma.
And how can one properly weight train with one less digit?
Is that picture posted earlier real? If it was that or even anything close to it then yeah, I can see why that whole finger would be amputated rather than just a portion. Looks like all that's left in that picture is bone. The middle finger looked similar too. At least I think that's the middle finger and not the ring finger. The whole hand minus the thumb is mangled.
Jim Abbott pitched a no hitter with one arm. Lots of successful athletes who have a handicap.
This is minor.
Per sources, there were a few options discussed to attempt to save JPP's finger. Amputation was deemed to have the fewest complications.
This is minor.
Minor? LOL...
I seriously doubt the Giants have a clue what they are going to do yet. Until they get solid medical information how can they.
a 5% difference in ability is basically the difference between a guy like adrian tracy and Osi.
This could legitimately turn JPP from a borderline pro-bowl player to an average player.
Jim Abbott pitched a no hitter with one arm. Lots of successful athletes who have a handicap.
This is minor.
He was also a safety, not a DL who constantly uses his hands, grabs the jerseys of OL, etc. Nevermind the fact he had the tip of his pinky amputated, not his entire index finger...
He's a very good football player and should have a good chance to continue to be a good football player. The timing is very, very bad for the Giants. What they cannot do is exacerbate this very bad situation by doing something rash. No doubt he's made a terrible mistake and put the team in a bad bind.
a 5% difference in ability is basically the difference between a guy like adrian tracy and Osi.
This could legitimately turn JPP from a borderline pro-bowl player to an average player.
People are lost. That's all.
Ha ha ha ha ha
Hilarious. Exactly! I practice labor and employment law which sometimes requires me to look at hipaa, and I'm loving some of the comments about who is clearly sueing who... A simple Google of hipaa and who is covered....
Not entirely relevant to this particular situation, but not entirely irrelevant either ....
Link - ( New Window )
He'll definitely finger this out.
NY Post - ( New Window )
He took a high risk on something that had little reward (it's not like he was injured saving someone from a burning building) and he only has himself to blame for that.
While it may be unlikely, there's a chance he emerges from this as a more mature and dedicated person. What happened to him is done; how he reacts and goes forward is his choice.
The Giants should react based on if / how this even has changed him, both negatively (the amputation and other physical complications) and positively (big if).
I played two seasons with multiple broken fingers.
My hands were wrapped so that my fingers were taped together.
Most defensive linemen play with broken fingers. It is customary to get stomped on while you are on the ground.
Football cleats are unforgiving.
david diehl said on sirius the morning that he is a lefty.
He did save a child, didn't he? I read it on bbi
That had to be the plan before this leak.
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And I do not mean it in a flippant or sarcastic way, but does anyone know if JPP is right handed or left handed?
david diehl said on sirius the morning that he is a lefty.
That's great to hear. Losing a finger on your off hand is much less devastating than on your dominant hand.
ESPN can still be liable if they had reason to believe the information was obtained illegally.
That had to be the plan before this leak.
If he can't play they dont owe him 15 million even if he signs the tender. If he's on NFI list he doesnt get paid. If he doesn't sign the tender and signs it mid-season he doesn't get paid for the time he missed
If you use poor judgement it carries consequences. When you associate yourself with people of poor judgement it will have a negative impact on you.
This is why so many of us value character and intelligence in the young men the Giants bring into the organization. Far too often disregarding those tenets results in serious damage to the teams competitive results and public perception.
Torrag, in fairness to Eric, he said most SUCCESSFUL cursed franchise
Until I read otherwise, he's not out of the woods yet, imo
Not entirely relevant to this particular situation, but not entirely irrelevant either .... Link - ( New Window )
Interesting article. Perhaps the index fingers isn't important as some thought...
NJ.com - ( New Window )
A couple of years after moving, I was doing them from a backyard, and didnt have one of them braced correctly. It tipped over and hit my younger daughter in the thigh resulting in a huge bruise and a decent sized cut. And alcohol was probably a factor.
Ever since Ive had nightmares about what would have happened if had hit her in the face. I now stick to commercial displays (which she still loves), but still have to be close enough to feel the ashes falling on us
~ Ronnie Lott ~
JPP is succesful not because of his speed off the snap, but because of the leverage he gets. He's probably the 2nd best DE in the league at gaining leverage against the OT (Watt), he's just a powerhouse.
IMO, this is going to affect him a lot more than it would've affected a speed rusher like Osi. Hope I'm wrong. I'm simultaneously angry and sorry for the guy.
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was to never say anything to the Giants until zero-day on the franchise tag signing. Either the Giants rescind and make him a free agent, or they shovel 15m to him without knowing his condition.
That had to be the plan before this leak.
If he can't play they dont owe him 15 million even if he signs the tender. If he's on NFI list he doesnt get paid. If he doesn't sign the tender and signs it mid-season he doesn't get paid for the time he missed
so you are basically saying he has zero leverage here.
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.
..I don't know.
~ Ronnie Lott ~
Big difference between being a Safety and a DE who has to grab a hold of a 300lb lineman at full speed.
people play with broken fingers - wonder how the missing finger will affect his ability to grab, hold, shed?
No doubt.
Plax was a known knucklehead with a talent for football. We made a judgement he would be an asset. He was. We don't win a Superbowl without him. He also shot himself and cost us one of the finest seasons I remember unfolding.
Same goes for JPP. His immaturity(being kind) is no surprise to anyone.
It's not a curse when you embrace potential problems then they turn into problems. You lie down with dogs you get up with fleas.
Again with the finger!
Having said that, anyone want to buy my kidney?
Link - ( New Window )
Plax was a known knucklehead with a talent for football. We made a judgement he would be an asset. He was. We don't win a Superbowl without him. He also shot himself and cost us one of the finest seasons I remember unfolding.
Same goes for JPP. His immaturity(being kind) is no surprise to anyone.
It's not a curse when you embrace potential problems then they turn into problems. You lie down with dogs you get up with fleas.
Yeah, along those lines you can throw in Will Hill
Highly unlikely in Florida. And not in new York. They owe him no duty or obligation of privacy, and in any event, he's a public figure.
Highly unlikely in Florida. And not in new York. They owe him no duty or obligation of privacy, and in any event, he's a public figure.
It's pretty clear that JPP sacrificed the finger in order to not lose a season of $$$.
Is it? Finger may have been very badly mangled and Dr's told him it would be of little use to him ever again. Also nothing has been clear in this case from the beginning.
Wouldn't you say its a lot more manageable than losing the thumb? There's ways around with a disability.I've people with no legs do the unthinkable. It's the person and their desire.
The grafted skin most likely came from his backside. I had two skin grafts done and that is where it and from
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Regardless of HIPAA, there is some possibility that he might have other statutory or common law claims against ESPN for publicizing private information about him that was obtained without his consent. Of course, that assumes that this was a leak and not obtained with his consent.
No doubt.
Doubt it. Public figure, freedom of the press.
If he can start camp no big deal. If he can't cause it needs to heal it will tough to imagine how long before he can play effectively.
If he needs skin grafts isn't that a drawn out procedure doing little bits at a time. Could it go on for months?
Jason Pierre-Paul Has Finger Amputated - ( New Window )
I have serious concerns he did not think this decision through.
I don't think you guys want to admit it acknowledge that many young people, especially star athletes do stupid things. I know I did. Most just don't get caught or hurt.
By all evidence jpp isn't a bad guy. He's a good teammate and a damn good player. He fucked up and hurt himself. These guys don't live in a bubble and many come from rough beginnings. They are going to make mistakes.
Thank god some of you aren't running this team.
I have serious concerns he did not think this decision through.
My guess it would have been the bulk of the season. See the update on the front page. By all indications, it was a decision on JPP's part to cut the finger off in order to save the season. Ronnie Lott did that once just to play in a playoff game. (against the Giants where we beat them 17-3).
I do think he will still be able to play at a high level but it might take some time for him to adjust. We'll see. Whole thing sucks.
tell me no one else thought this
Why would you not even let NYG experts take a look at the hand?
Not necessarily. Again, there is precedent for this. Lott had his finger amputated simply to be able to play in ONE football game.
Ray resection isn't just the visible finger - it involves the finger bone in the hand proper- maybe it is mislabeled. It in my experience would indicate a more extensive injury and if true change hand dynamics beyond loss of ( an important ) single finger.
Skin grafts expected ( split thickness the methodology almost always used )
Hopefully the report is mislabeled
Did he weigh in the possibility his abilities will be reduced due to the loss of the finger?
His decision, but to my mind, you wait and come back 100%. It's not like it was knee or shoulder injury where you have to wait and see if the injury heals completely or recurs.
Again, though, this has nothing to do with a curse or team-wide bad luck. I feel bad for JPP, but a dope did something dopey and he, unfortunately, had to pay for it with a finger (though he may very well be lucky it was only a finger and not something far worse), just like a dope like Plaxico thought the elastic waistband of baggy sweatpants could hold up a loaded gun years ago now. You bank on idiots, you're often going to reap what the idiots sow with their idiocy -- just hopefully you also reap what the idiots sow with their talent too to even things out (and the Giants did, with JPP and with Plaxico). It's just the way it goes and it has nothing to do with "curses" or anything of that ilk.
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unless it was his thumb I don't see how he's "limited" in anything really. Maybe jersey grabbing?
Take a step back and think about it.
Go pick up something. Then tell me not having your index finger doesn't limit that ability.
What's he picking up, he's not a wide receiver.
This place is nothing but doom and gloom. Him losing a finger sounds as bad as an amputated leg on BBI. It's making my head hurt.
ur s0 doom n gloom!
That is what I can not figure out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxIozFhI9qs
Link - ( New Window )
He absolutely was stonewalling the Giants, considering he declined their offer to meet with hand specialists in New York.
Hope he gets well soon. Bad break of the team and obviously him.
So yeah, when you put things in perspective a bit and also hear an early 2 month time table, it's not as bad as many on here are making it seem (if there's reports are accurate).
But hey, don't want to spoil the party. Hopefully he can still eat his cereal in the morning...
Typically buying hundreds of dollars worth every 4th. I used to have an ideal setup for them - lived on the water with a rail system that rested on a concrete ramp with 1-2 ft. sides, so if anything tipped over it would just hit the walls (obviously after removing the boat), and everything went off over the water.
A couple of years after moving, I was doing them from a backyard, and didnt have one of them braced correctly. It tipped over and hit my younger daughter in the thigh resulting in a huge bruise and a decent sized cut. And alcohol was probably a factor.
Ever since Ive had nightmares about what would have happened if had hit her in the face. I now stick to commercial displays (which she still loves), but still have to be close enough to feel the ashes falling on us
That was one heroic finger. RIP
JPP will come back and be a force this year. If Jim Abbott can pitch in major league baseball with one hand, JPP can play defensive end with nine fingers. He's a phenomenal athlete and will overcome this. Bank on it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxIozFhI9qs Link - ( New Window )
Obvioualy it was beyond repait and to avoid infection they took it off.
Get better JPP.
I feel bad on a human level for JPP. He's disabled for life. I feel selfishly bad as a fan of the NYG that this guy just rocked the team I love and has on top of that handled it in my opinion as selfishly as he could have.
If I'm the Giants, I really think about this. They can get out now. They'd get slammed for letting a star player go, but those funds can be used elsewhere.
The psychological impact could be worse than the physical setbacks from having one less digit which I imagine will handicap his performance even if he has a prosthetic
The salary cap space can be rolled over to next year, which would be a big help with Eli's extension.
Meanwhile, the index finger amputation was a full amputation.
Don't shoot the messenger...
Post of the month.!! Get mad jpp!!! We got your back!
Are you serious? Put your shoulders and be a man lol. I know a girl who had to have her ring finger amputated. It happened on her honey moon while jumping off a boat. Her ring caught on something and ripped off. She's a healthy normal person today.
I don't know how exactly this will affect his football playing, but at least he'll be back on the field once the wound heals sufficiently.
That is probably the most optimistic estimate he got and he probably based his actions upon that estimated time...
The other thing that comes into play, as I stated before, JPP says he is ready to play......the Giants say he isn't.....and what if the hand is injured because it wasn't ready?
That is probably the most optimistic estimate he got and he probably based his actions upon that estimated time...
The other thing that comes into play, as I stated before, JPP says he is ready to play......the Giants say he isn't.....and what if the hand is injured because it wasn't ready?
If its healthy enough to be put in a club and be okay, lets have JPP lead them onto the field in Dallas. Go big blue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxIozFhI9qs Link - ( New Window )
Holy fuck, I could not be a surgeon.
The linked article was written before it was known that he was having an amputation, but the doctor referred back to it in a tweet after the amputation, suggesting that amputation often offers the quickest recovery. Several medical websites that I've read suggest that humans adjust well to losing one finger.
I'm taking the optimistic view -- He'll start the season and he'll play well.
link - ( New Window )
Football player removes glove and notices his middle finger has gone missing
Players are tough, no doubt about it.
How do you grasp a jersey or plate on engagement and how do you compensate for the lack of ability on one hand?
How can you have effective gap responsibility knowing one of your hands is completely mangled? Do you start cheating on an inside or outside shoulder because you're concerned about the hand? Holy shit. I cannot imagine.
That's going to take time. And balls. And thousands of reps to get used to.
This is NOT Ronnie Lott folks. Lott played in space, picked his spots and for the most part attacked offensive players.
We're talking about a guy who is engaged with the offensive line every single play and his hands - along with his feet and vision - are the most important tools he has.
That said, I don't know that modern tools doctors, training staffs and teams can deploy to minimize this issue. Maybe there's a retrofitted glove or cast or brace or something we haven't thought of to minimize this problem for JPP. No idea.
All I know is that, when I envision myself on the DL with no index finger and undoubtedly other injuries to my hands...fuckin hell. Sounds like a nightmare.
I can't wait to hear the official press and team statements when they come out.
As of right now, I'm planning the season without JPP and that is a shame.
How do you grasp a jersey or plate on engagement and how do you compensate for the lack of ability on one hand?
How can you have effective gap responsibility knowing one of your hands is completely mangled? Do you start cheating on an inside or outside shoulder because you're concerned about the hand? Holy shit. I cannot imagine.
That's going to take time. And balls. And thousands of reps to get used to.
This is NOT Ronnie Lott folks. Lott played in space, picked his spots and for the most part attacked offensive players.
We're talking about a guy who is engaged with the offensive line every single play and his hands - along with his feet and vision - are the most important tools he has.
That said, I don't know that modern tools doctors, training staffs and teams can deploy to minimize this issue. Maybe there's a retrofitted glove or cast or brace or something we haven't thought of to minimize this problem for JPP. No idea.
All I know is that, when I envision myself on the DL with no index finger and undoubtedly other injuries to my hands...fuckin hell. Sounds like a nightmare.
I don't see why somebody would consent to making that info public.
This is what JPP's hand would look like:
I think he can remain a very productive football player.
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if he can't play we don't pay him and who are we going to spend that salary on this year anyway? It's a 1 year deal with pretty much no downside at this point. We already missed out on the big FAs, might as well ride it out and hope he's ready to play.
The salary cap space can be rolled over to next year, which would be a big help with Eli's extension.
Ahh, didn't know that, thought it was use it or lose it.
He might be better off playing with a "mitten" or some sort of protective glove that protects his other fingers and limits how he compensates for what he lacks.
It might not be a big deal in the end - but I just know how I played ball and my hands were everything.
And if you could see them today you'd see they are ruined pretty good. Every finger but my left index, right ring, and left thumb has been broken.
Also anyone ever get a load of what Strahans fingers look like. He would probably have been better off if a few of those things were amputated.
He might be better off playing with a "mitten" or some sort of protective glove that protects his other fingers and limits how he compensates for what he lacks.
It might not be a big deal in the end - but I just know how I played ball and my hands were everything.
And if you could see them today you'd see they are ruined pretty good. Every finger but my left index, right ring, and left thumb has been broken.
B in ALB - I did not play the game and value your opinion highly because you did. I live in 'Cuse and enjoyed watching you play. The purpose of my post was to point out (pun intended) that the resection is designed to make the hand "whole" again and not feel like a digit is missing. Certainly it helps with fine motor skills like writing and working with small objects. I would trust your judgement on how it would impact his ability to get around an offensive lineman. I believe he will be able to work out, lift weights and do everything required to play. Let's see how it impacts his ability to play.
Plus. Let's not forget that he's on the right side and his right arm is his lever.
His rip inside, the shoot with an arm over, and his speed rush outside all dictates manipulation with his right hand. Not to mention his bar and arm over on the outside, the bull rush and the push/pull either side.
Fuck.
If he really lost his index finger - along with the other injuries being speculated - I would be very surprised if he ever comes close to his pinnacle years ago.
Certainly not worth a $15M/yr investment by the Giants.
This kid - unfortunately just cost himself a ton of money and bought a ton of stress and insecurity.
In comment 12362717 jawebb20 said:
That had to be the plan before this leak.
Medical fact: Index finger is least important for power grip.
If this is JPP only injury, he will do fine in NFL.
Wish him the best.
It doesn't matter as your stance - three point inside/outside, two point or four point - should be dictated by formation, scheme and ability.
All this said - maybe this dictates a move inside or as the Bingos on a 3-4 on another team.
JPPs career isn't done. I just think it's done with the Giants.
Split thickness skin graft for JPP is actually good news. Less severe than if other types or flap skin procedures. Best recovery/healing.
Also, it doesnt say how much of the finger will be amputated or resectioned.
The Problem JPP is going to have is seeing if the skin graft actually takes. The graft skin and surface area of the bone can break open and cause serious infection because its not a natural attachment of conformity to the body..meaning bone and skin around index area is being moved around to compensate which can have a tremendous adverse affect on healing part.
After Skin graft it really takes a year to know if Graft really works Otherwise, he will be in position with a never ending unhealing wound and this leads to bone dying around the hand and could lead to further amputation <this us what happened to my brother in law..he lost his thumb. but now it seems after second graft and a year later the graft is fine
Medical fact: Index finger is least important for power grip.
If this is JPP only injury, he will do fine in NFL.
Wish him the best.
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David J. Chao, MD @ProFootballDoc 2h2 hours ago
Medical fact: Index finger is least important for power grip.
If this is JPP only injury, he will do fine in NFL.
Wish him the best.
interesting but how bad is the rest of his hand?
That seems to be the more important thing right now..
David J. Chao, MD @ProFootballDoc 2h2 hours ago
If index finger amputation only injury, JPP @giants will have full recovery & play. Worry is what else injured, blast rarely contained.
The Problem JPP is going to have is seeing if the skin graft actually takes. The graft skin and surface area of the bone can break open and cause serious infection because its not a natural attachment of conformity to the body..meaning bone and skin around index area is being moved around to compensate which can have a tremendous adverse affect on healing part.
After Skin graft it really takes a year to know if Graft really works Otherwise, he will be in position with a never ending unhealing wound and this leads to bone dying around the hand and could lead to further amputation <this us what happened to my brother in law..he lost his thumb. but now it seems after second graft and a year later the graft is fine
Also, it doesnt say how much of the finger will be amputated or resectioned.
It was the entire finger.
David J. Chao, MD @ProFootballDoc 2h2 hours ago
If a medical provider leaked JPP medical information, that's a big HIPAA violation. Media like @AdamSchefter are not subject to those laws.
David J. Chao, MD @ProFootballDoc 1h1 hour ago
HIPAA laws targeted at initial leak of info (healthcare workers, hospitals, insurances) not at media or others that repeat information.
Ed Werder @Edwerderespn 27m27 minutes ago
JPP has undergone numerous surgeries and expected to remain in hospital another 2-3 days.
Ed Werder @Edwerderespn 28m28 minutes ago
In addition to right index finger amputation as @AdamSchefter reported, I'm told JPP has right thumb fractures. Should heal in 6 weeks
If ESPN had any reason to believe that the info was obtained illegally, they would likely be liable.
RT @NYDNSports: Source: Info on JPP's condition may have been released from his camp http://nydn.us/1MgrgAZ
I mean, this is Disney we're talking about. They pay lawyers fortunes just to stand around on call in case they might be needed.
I would bet that once they got the information, there were a few phone calls made to a few offices to be sure they weren't going to get sued for millions.
That would be worse.
It will be a big adjustment to shed blocks but if everything else is working he should be fine.
I'm sure this is what the doctors told him too which led to the decision. If he gets on a field and performs this season he'll get a big payday. I'm sure that was the biggest factor with the decision.
This is a league where a big deal is made if a guy has arms that are an inch shorter than someone else's. We're talking about a guy not only missing a finger but coming off a terrible injury and presumably missing all or a lot of camp.
If JPP were entering the draft in this condition he'd go undrafted, yet we should pay him $15 million? No thanks.
Exactly my thought. Why wouldn't he allow the Giants to get involved and get him to a top notch doctor. To me not doing that shows more stupidity than the accident.
Way to go with the over the top stereotypes. Because there can't possibly be good doctors outside the NE. There aren't top surgeons in many locations in the U.S.
The bad news, imo, is the over time part. I cannot imagine that he will be able to heal and then adapt to the physiological changes from the amputation and the other burns, and to the psychological damage and the adaptation related to that, in a single season.
The idea that he will be back to even a pale imitation of his prior self by, say, mid-season, is inconceivable to me. I wish I could think otherwise, but I just don't see how to get there.
It's so odd to have a football player missing an index finger that I can see him getting more celebrity from this if he can come back and be effective.
The world is crazy that way.
This is a league where a big deal is made if a guy has arms that are an inch shorter than someone else's. We're talking about a guy not only missing a finger but coming off a terrible injury and presumably missing all or a lot of camp.
If JPP were entering the draft in this condition he'd go undrafted, yet we should pay him $15 million? No thanks.
This is my thought right here. We would be killing Reese if the draft was held today for taking a guy in the 1st round top 5 that just had his finger amputated. I don't see how you can let that man sign anything until he waive whatever and prove he can still function as a pass rusher in the NFL. That's insane.
Amani & Dan 2m2 minutes ago
.@ProFootballDoc joins AmaniAToomer & TheSchwartzNBC RIGHT NOW on @NBCSportsRadio....
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?
A DE with limited ability to grab and tackle?
An index finger is NOT going to make all that much difference. Having the thumb is what's critical. I speak from considerable experience here.
There is plenty they can do with that cap space. Mathis, Jake Long? Others. Maybe JPP would be willing to sign a more workable deal on a prove it contract in light of this? Lot the Giants can do with tying up $15m bucks.
But the "power grip" comment does make sense to me. I could see how the index finger wouldn't impact the "power grip" as much as the ring or middle. Hopefully that's the case.
Not true. The money can be rolled over into 2016. This is an enormous detail that seems to be ignored.
He has the money, He should have went to best specialist he could find.
For Instance..If it were his knee I am sure he would see James Andrews. Saint Barnabus Burn Center in NJ and HSS are the best hospitals for Burn and recovery care
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Sure, we could extend Eli and/or Prince, but I'm betting Eli's dollars are already earmarked, and they want to see if Prince stays healthy this year before committing longterm to him too.
Not true. The money can be rolled over into 2016. This is an enormous detail that seems to be ignored.
My brain isnt working right now, but are you saying we have an extra 15 million if we let him walk?
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unless it was his thumb I don't see how he's "limited" in anything really. Maybe jersey grabbing?
Take a step back and think about it.
Go pick up something. Then tell me not having your index finger doesn't limit that ability.
It doesn't.
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Sure, we could extend Eli and/or Prince, but I'm betting Eli's dollars are already earmarked, and they want to see if Prince stays healthy this year before committing longterm to him too.
There is plenty they can do with that cap space. Mathis, Jake Long? Others. Maybe JPP would be willing to sign a more workable deal on a prove it contract in light of this? Lot the Giants can do with tying up $15m bucks.
I see the point, but I think if they wanted to sign Mathis and/or Jake Long, they would do it already. IIRC, we still have cap space and the ability to extend Eli to create more.
If JPP was willing to sign a 1 yr prove it kind of deal, that'd probably be best for all parties involved. But technically, he's not a Giant till he signs the tag. So if they pull the tag, what's to make him sign back here? He can sign anywhere for likely more money and more years. So it's kind of a catch-22 for the Giants.
Do you pull the tag and potentially lose the player? Or do you pay him the full 15 million and hope he plays at a high level in his prove it year?
Apparently he has a fractured thumb as well.
Listen we already know that moral and ethics matter more to some more than others.
If P.Owens was the surgeon and it is at U of Miami Medical Center, then that guy is a hand specialist and seems to have a solid background. And had a fellowship at HSS btw.
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In comment 12363105 PetesHereNow said:
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Sure, we could extend Eli and/or Prince, but I'm betting Eli's dollars are already earmarked, and they want to see if Prince stays healthy this year before committing longterm to him too.
Not true. The money can be rolled over into 2016. This is an enormous detail that seems to be ignored.
My brain isnt working right now, but are you saying we have an extra 15 million if we let him walk?
That's what he is slated to earn in 2015 under the franchise tag. If the Giants drop the tag, he becomes a free agent and the money they had earmarked they can now use elsewhere, including rolling over into 2016.
It's a no brainer. If JJ Watt had this exact injury at this exact time, would you want the Giants to give him a 1 year 15 million deal?
No brainer. Drop the tag and move on.
That money can go to a OT, LB, keeping Prince, towards Eli. If Moore and Owa can groom a little bit under Spags, then we can move on from him.
Last time I checked, we did just fine moving on a from the ass who shot himself in 2008. We can move on from JPP too.
When Barber retired, we replaced him with Jacobs and Bradshaw and we were fine.
Strahan retires, we had the parts to move on.
This guy is not irreplaceable.
Yeah, it's probably less than on the amputated finger, but the effect could be cumulative. How would we know at this point--or even how would the Giants know, given how little cooperation they have gotten from JPP?
Kinda lacks the star quality we're expecting out of our DE's.
I agree it shouldn't be as much of an issue by next year, but this year? He won't be replaced effectively, I suspect. At the very least, it's a drop down in talent at a position where the next best player is a significant step down, and each succeeding player is likely another drop down.
This was Jason Pierre-Pauls decision to amputate his finger. This sounds like a Ronnie Lott situation. Hes still in surgery now.
24 retweets 6 favorites
back then players would play with 1 arm and still be effective, now no chance.
The biggest reason for my view (which I still believe) is that if you take JPP off of this team, the Giants are much less likely to seriously challenge for the division. He's one of the top 4-5 players on the team.
But as Go Terps points out, you have to factor in at some point what kind of player are you getting for $15 million and could that money be spent better.
Tuck your index finger into your hand and try to pick something up (and pretend it's cut off at the knuckle). Normal people can adapt but JPP has an unusual profession where hand play is critical. I can't imagine that this won't impact his game.
It comes down to whether the Giants think JPP can perform with three fingers and a thumb on his left hand. But, technically, he's not a Giant until he signs the franchise tag. If he signs the tag, he gets the 15 million. If the Giants rescind the tag, he surely signs somewhere else who is willing to take on the risk.
So, when are they permitted to look at him and evaluate whether he can actually be effective as is? It's the weirdest catch 22 I've ever seen.
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from being disclosed to a third party by a medical provider, health plan or health clearinghouse without the patient's consent. Clearly ESPN is not his medical provider or health plan.
ESPN can still be liable if they had reason to believe the information was obtained illegally.
And you know this from your day job of being a.......ESPN wannabe stat nerd?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxIozFhI9qs Link - ( New Window )
That was tough to watch.
I just don't see how JPP could ever play at the level he was when he burst on to the scene let alone play at an average level.
That would be worse.
Umm... he still has that issue out there too but I kinda knew it was bad when the police seem to be giving off we don't want to kick him when he is down. But his legal trouble may not be over.
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it sucks for JPP and sucks for the Giants. But you know what? A lot goes wrong for these guys during the offseason...at least he didn't get suspended for breaking the law or being an a**hole.
That would be worse.
Umm... he still has that issue out there too but I kinda knew it was bad when the police seem to be giving off we don't want to kick him when he is down. But his legal trouble may not be over.
this isn't like carrying a gun in NY like Plax. Several law enforcement departments have said they aren't pressing charges. He's pretty clear legally.
Just shows you what a total, clueless,mi nature, irresponsible man child he is who will never take anything seriously. Eff him and his mindlessness.
Not letting the Giants in to see him and considering seeing their doctor.
He can't play the card of "it's business, I'm looking out for myself."
Clearly he is a man child that doesn't take anything seriously, and now, now...he is going to shun the Giants well intended medical staff for his own "well-being" that he suddenly cares about? Please.
http://nypost.com/2015/07/08/jpp-refused-to-meet-with-giants-reps-in-hospital/
Some people lose up to 35 percent of their strength when losing an index finger, others as little as 5 to 10 percent, Roenbeck said.
He had it amputated.
we were going to find out sooner or later.
Why not? It's his life, it's his career and it's his finger. The Giants are his employer. Lots of people wouldn't trust their employer to give them the best advice. If the Giants don't like it, they can let him go. And he doesn't even have a signed contract at this point.
Clearly he is a man child that doesn't take anything seriously
Yeah, man child, sure very clear. No other adults like fireworks. No other adults get hurt doing things that entail some risk. Motorcycles,skiing, jumping off cliffs, shooting.Lots of people do stuff like this. Hell the VP of the US accidentally shot a guy a few years back.
It's just a really, really bad decision that has now permanently effected his life, and I do feel bad for him.
It's just a really, really bad decision that has now permanently effected his life, and I do feel bad for him.
But the decision hurt our favorite sports team so he's a terrible person!
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He can't play the card of "it's business, I'm looking out for myself."
Why not? It's his life, it's his career and it's his finger. The Giants are his employer. Lots of people wouldn't trust their employer to give them the best advice. If the Giants don't like it, they can let him go. And he doesn't even have a signed contract at this point.
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Clearly he is a man child that doesn't take anything seriously
Yeah, man child, sure very clear. No other adults like fireworks. No other adults get hurt doing things that entail some risk. Motorcycles,skiing, jumping off cliffs, shooting.Lots of people do stuff like this. Hell the VP of the US accidentally shot a guy a few years back.
1). If he cared so much about taking care of himself, if this was a business and such a serious job, then why the hell is he buying, using, and then bragging on social media about this with total disregard to being in a contract year and the inherent danger?
2). This guy didn't just hold a juiced sparkler. He bought an obnoxious display of explosives and posted them on Twitter as if to say "look at me, look at me!," like many of the selfie loving "MIllENALS."
Then, after he gets hurt, when the grown ups show up, he shuts them off like a kid avoiding angry parent.
He gets defensive like the Giants, who've coached, drafted, developed, and paid him are the boogy man out to screw him.
No, he's just an irresponsible obnoxious selfi millineal whose in it for his own fame.....fine...but don't stiff the Giants acting like you suddenly take the job and business seriously. You're a clown.
He blew up his hand and apparently his arm. He's lost a finger and he has a long road of rehab ahead of him. Skin graphs take time to take hold and heal. He won't be able to lift weights because you can't put pressure on the new skin. He will experience atrophy in the other fingers as well. It will take months of rehab to get his power back.
He's not playing this season. With that in mind, the Giants can't leave the franchise tender on the table.
What a tragedy.
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He can't play the card of "it's business, I'm looking out for myself."
Why not? It's his life, it's his career and it's his finger. The Giants are his employer. Lots of people wouldn't trust their employer to give them the best advice. If the Giants don't like it, they can let him go. And he doesn't even have a signed contract at this point.
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Clearly he is a man child that doesn't take anything seriously
Yeah, man child, sure very clear. No other adults like fireworks. No other adults get hurt doing things that entail some risk. Motorcycles,skiing, jumping off cliffs, shooting.Lots of people do stuff like this. Hell the VP of the US accidentally shot a guy a few years back.
1). If he cared so much about taking care of himself, if this was a business and such a serious job, then why the hell is he buying, using, and then bragging on social media about this with total disregard to being in a contract year and the inherent danger?
2). This guy didn't just hold a juiced sparkler. He bought an obnoxious display of explosives and posted them on Twitter as if to say "look at me, look at me!," like many of the selfie loving "MIllENALS."
Then, after he gets hurt, when the grown ups show up, he shuts them off like a kid avoiding angry parent.
He gets defensive like the Giants, who've coached, drafted, developed, and paid him are the boogy man out to screw him.
No, he's just an irresponsible obnoxious selfi millineal whose in it for his own fame.....fine...but don't stiff the Giants acting like you suddenly take the job and business seriously. You're a clown.
Right, this could only happen to a millennial (spell check is totally a millennial thing). No Generation-X or Baby Boomer has EVER EVER EVER done something like this. Fuck off your high horse Grandpa.
I can easily see a scenario where the Giants make him a FA and another team comes in a gives him a contract with promise to re-do after a prove it year. He could get signed to a 3yr 18M contract with a 15M signing bonus and redo after a year
How does this benefit the Giants.
Long is not cleared for anything and Mathis wants mutli yr 8M per year. Reason no team has signed him
With that said I am pretty sure the Giants would be able to get a good amount of information from his doctors even without seeing him? And being the ESPN got it pretty sure our doctors would have a better chance getting more info.
In regards to cutting bait with him, why? The team holds all the cards, its not costing them a cent right now and wont if he signs until they feel he can be productive. He could very well come back from this with a new look on life and a renewed drive on and off the field. Like the saying goes you dont know what you have until its gone. Well he could have lost it all not just his career. The cutting and walking away talk is just nonsense IMO. Granted this is only my opinion of many posted here but my hope is not only he returns with a new found appreciation of what he has, but also a renewed drive to make the most of it.
Only time will tell. And the Giants have all the time in the world in this case.
Really hope you are wrong for his sake. I don't see how he is getting a "material" contract without proving performance post-injury, rehab. This really sucks for him, as a human being I feel really bad for him. But the Giants can't give him a large contract right now.
I hope he saved and isn't succumbing to monetary pressures.
I'd like the morons in government who allowed this exemption to answer this. And I'd like the assholes in the media to grow a conscience!
I'd like the morons in government who allowed this exemption to answer this. And I'd like the assholes in the media to grow a conscience!
It is. If you're not a public figure, and for some reason they decided to publish your medical records, you could sue for invasion of privacy. Otherwise, barring the media from publishing such information, or holding them liable for it, would violate the first amendment.
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If the media can obtain our medical records and publish them for the world to see then how in the hell does HIPAA provide any level of protection for us at all?
I'd like the morons in government who allowed this exemption to answer this. And I'd like the assholes in the media to grow a conscience!
It is. If you're not a public figure, and for some reason they decided to publish your medical records, you could sue for invasion of privacy. Otherwise, barring the media from publishing such information, or holding them liable for it, would violate the first amendment.
"If your not a public figure"? Who gets to make that determination. At what point do athletes become public figures? If I'm a great ball player in high school being seriously scouted by a college, does that then make me a public figure? Where is the line? At what point does a person become legally qualified as a "public figure"? The exemption is ridiculous and the last people I would ever exempt from any privacy rules are the people with the biggest mouths, the irresponsible media! Unbelievable!
Courts draw the line after the fact when the damage has already been done. What good is that and we, the abused, have to come up with the time and money to hire lawyers to take on the big media in court in the first place. Why the hell is the media exempt in the first place? Why do they have any right's to a public figure's medical records? The only level I think THE PEOPLE not the media have a right to know would MAYBE be for the President of the country as so much rides on the mental state of this person who ever he may be.
I just don't see JPP helping the team this year. He won't be able to workout for weeks. That hurts his strength for sure. And, who is training him? He's not talking to the Giants, so who will be working with him on this? The bottom line is, I don't see him playing better than healthy DEs we have on the team or who may still be available in free agency. That's the question the Giants need make a decision on. Will JPP actually be able to play better than other DEs to justify the big money?
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But in this case, it's pretty clear that JPP is a public figure.
Courts draw the line after the fact when the damage has already been done. What good is that and we, the abused, have to come up with the time and money to hire lawyers to take on the big media in court in the first place. Why the hell is the media exempt in the first place? Why do they have any right's to a public figure's medical records? The only level I think THE PEOPLE not the media have a right to know would MAYBE be for the President of the country as so much rides on the mental state of this person who ever he may be.
It's called freedom of the press.
They don't have a "right" to the records. But if it falls into their hands, they can choose to publish it.
I would agree with you if I thought he could ever be a decent player again. I don't believe he can be and for the level of play I believe he will be able to put on the field in 2015 I think we can match it with somebody allot cheaper. Or, alternatively, I'd rather give the Rookie OWA the experience because I'll bet if you let OWA play the whole 2015 season he'll give you a better level of play in 2016 then you'll get from JPP.
I'm still trying to figure out why JPP would assume the Giants would welcome that choice without discussing it with them first.
Schefter in that photo also posted some lady records and they are not a public figure. Apparently, ESPN is not protected against her coming after both them and hospital. Lack of cropping may cost them.
They can't do anything right now as he's not under contract as an employee of the New York Giants. Not sure if that answers your question
Well, if he signs, he's on the team. I'd think as long as it's medically justified that he is in fact hurt, he would go on PUP. I don't know of any rule that would prevent them from doing so. If he's hurt, he's hurt. Even if it's a non-football injury.
This was the trial balloon that I think JPP's agent floated out there through Kim Jones. It is clear from Kim's piece that JPP's agent is trying to get the Giants to commit to pay JPP ALL of the money in the tender offer and agree not to put him on NFI when he signs the tender offer. IMO, it goes over like a lead balloon in the Giants front office.
I think the Giants are going to be clear that 1) he signs the tender without any demands or conditions; 2) that he lets Giants doctors and staff examine the hand and medical records and then 3) they begin talking about next steps after the Giants get the information and signing in 1 and 2. Until then, the Giants do not have to do a thing and JPP's agent can posture all he wants.
I noticed JPP isn't twittering pics now, How come? I guess when you blow half your hand off that is something you can't selfie...it wouldn't appeal to bling bling crowd.
Giants should not sign this guy. Why reward a guy with 15 million for stupidity?
I noticed JPP isn't twittering pics now, How come? I guess when you blow half your hand off that is something you can't selfie...it wouldn't appeal to bling bling crowd.
Giants should not sign this guy. Why reward a guy with 15 million for stupidity?
I'm the one that said it was a dumb millennial man child thing by somebody who doesn't take anything seriously.....and to answer another posters comment...I am not a Grandpa...I'm a few years older than JPP and younger than Eli.