This is a league where a big deal is made if a guy has arms that are an inch shorter than someone else's. We're talking about a guy not only missing a finger but coming off a terrible injury and presumably missing all or a lot of camp.
If JPP were entering the draft in this condition he'd go undrafted, yet we should pay him $15 million? No thanks.
RE: Another thing that bothers me here is the rush of judgement to
In comment 12363037 Rich Houston-NYG-WR-1971 said:
Quote:
amputate, Like I said last night, some of the best Burn centers are in the Northeast, instead of paying for 60k stripper parties, JPP could have gotten a Medvac to Hospital for Special Surgery or Saint Barnabus Burn Center in Livingston, NJ and get real expert advice before making a snap decision to amputate his finger because a quack in Florida gave him that option right away. JPP really got some bad advice here IMO. And I agree..there will be a psychological impact that is going to affect him
Exactly my thought. Why wouldn't he allow the Giants to get involved and get him to a top notch doctor. To me not doing that shows more stupidity than the accident.
In comment 12363037 Rich Houston-NYG-WR-1971 said:
Quote:
get real expert advice before making a snap decision to amputate his finger because a quack in Florida gave him that option right away. JPP really got some bad advice here IMO.
Way to go with the over the top stereotypes. Because there can't possibly be good doctors outside the NE. There aren't top surgeons in many locations in the U.S.
that well-trained exercise physiologists can deal with that, over time.
The bad news, imo, is the over time part. I cannot imagine that he will be able to heal and then adapt to the physiological changes from the amputation and the other burns, and to the psychological damage and the adaptation related to that, in a single season.
The idea that he will be back to even a pale imitation of his prior self by, say, mid-season, is inconceivable to me. I wish I could think otherwise, but I just don't see how to get there.
Let's suppose he can actually perform well with three fingers and a custom-made glove or a club or whatever.
It's so odd to have a football player missing an index finger that I can see him getting more celebrity from this if he can come back and be effective.
The world is crazy that way.
It's been discussed he probably has medical coverage from nflpa
This is a league where a big deal is made if a guy has arms that are an inch shorter than someone else's. We're talking about a guy not only missing a finger but coming off a terrible injury and presumably missing all or a lot of camp.
If JPP were entering the draft in this condition he'd go undrafted, yet we should pay him $15 million? No thanks.
This is my thought right here. We would be killing Reese if the draft was held today for taking a guy in the 1st round top 5 that just had his finger amputated. I don't see how you can let that man sign anything until he waive whatever and prove he can still function as a pass rusher in the NFL. That's insane.
how could you possibly pay JPP $15m on a franchise tender with this type of injury. You simply can't. You cannot lock up that much cap space hoping he can play to form. This news is a big difference from the unknown situation we were in this morning.
I agree with Go Terps. JPP is now a large liability
Sure, we could extend Eli and/or Prince, but I'm betting Eli's dollars are already earmarked, and they want to see if Prince stays healthy this year before committing longterm to him too.
Sure, we could extend Eli and/or Prince, but I'm betting Eli's dollars are already earmarked, and they want to see if Prince stays healthy this year before committing longterm to him too.
There is plenty they can do with that cap space. Mathis, Jake Long? Others. Maybe JPP would be willing to sign a more workable deal on a prove it contract in light of this? Lot the Giants can do with tying up $15m bucks.
the average BBIer about his ability to return at a high level. The hands are just so damn important for DL-play. I think it's just absurd how some of you think this is going to be no big deal. I also appreciate B in ALB's posts because he has experience playing on the DL and has the same concerns I have.
But the "power grip" comment does make sense to me. I could see how the index finger wouldn't impact the "power grip" as much as the ring or middle. Hopefully that's the case.
RE: It's not like we can do anything with the cap space anyway
Sure, we could extend Eli and/or Prince, but I'm betting Eli's dollars are already earmarked, and they want to see if Prince stays healthy this year before committing longterm to him too.
Not true. The money can be rolled over into 2016. This is an enormous detail that seems to be ignored.
nyyng, JPP took the advice of the local Hospital doctor and not
giant staff..this seems apparent. He made a real fast decision and should have gotten a real Specialist decision.. and Yes,,when it comes to Doctors in South Florida..I do beleive the talent is subpar to what is up in Northeast.
He has the money, He should have went to best specialist he could find.
For Instance..If it were his knee I am sure he would see James Andrews. Saint Barnabus Burn Center in NJ and HSS are the best hospitals for Burn and recovery care
RE: RE: It's not like we can do anything with the cap space anyway
Sure, we could extend Eli and/or Prince, but I'm betting Eli's dollars are already earmarked, and they want to see if Prince stays healthy this year before committing longterm to him too.
Not true. The money can be rolled over into 2016. This is an enormous detail that seems to be ignored.
My brain isnt working right now, but are you saying we have an extra 15 million if we let him walk?
also says the index finger is the least important digit for a power grip. So, I feel like that's actionable information from a reliable, educated source.
It appears the Giants have enough information now to make an educated first step in the process. It will take an undetermined amount of time for him to get back on the field, and 15M is just a bad investment when you have the option to decrease the cost. The wisest thing the Giants can do is transparently and cooperatively rescind the tender offer and make a good faith one year offer to him. That puts the ball in his court. With an injury that bad, and all of the uncertainty that will come, his value is very low and he will not sniff 15M guaranteed from anyone. Even if the Giants offered him 10M and were able to recoup a third of the cost and roll that over that would be a win.
Did not Ronnie Lott have part of his finger amputated mid-season
Sure, we could extend Eli and/or Prince, but I'm betting Eli's dollars are already earmarked, and they want to see if Prince stays healthy this year before committing longterm to him too.
There is plenty they can do with that cap space. Mathis, Jake Long? Others. Maybe JPP would be willing to sign a more workable deal on a prove it contract in light of this? Lot the Giants can do with tying up $15m bucks.
I see the point, but I think if they wanted to sign Mathis and/or Jake Long, they would do it already. IIRC, we still have cap space and the ability to extend Eli to create more.
If JPP was willing to sign a 1 yr prove it kind of deal, that'd probably be best for all parties involved. But technically, he's not a Giant till he signs the tag. So if they pull the tag, what's to make him sign back here? He can sign anywhere for likely more money and more years. So it's kind of a catch-22 for the Giants.
Do you pull the tag and potentially lose the player? Or do you pay him the full 15 million and hope he plays at a high level in his prove it year?
Leaking the info from the hospital is really bad...
Someone probably snapped a pic with the cell phone. A very good friend of mine works at Robert Wood Johnson in NJ. She was involved with the care of Tracy Morgan. She absolutely would not give up anything about his status. To this day even though he has been gone for a while, she will not speak about it at all. Citing immediate firing as the penalty.
RE: Did not Ronnie Lott have part of his finger amputated mid-season
Someone probably snapped a pic with the cell phone. A very good friend of mine works at Robert Wood Johnson in NJ. She was involved with the care of Tracy Morgan. She absolutely would not give up anything about his status. To this day even though he has been gone for a while, she will not speak about it at all. Citing immediate firing as the penalty.
Listen we already know that moral and ethics matter more to some more than others.
yes, the hospitals you mention are great institutions. But there are plenty of fine surgeons around the country. I am not disagreeing that JPP should get the best care and should not rush or get second opinions. But you have no idea who he consulted or who his doctors consulted over the last four days. You don't even know if there was even a question on amputation.
If P.Owens was the surgeon and it is at U of Miami Medical Center, then that guy is a hand specialist and seems to have a solid background. And had a fellowship at HSS btw.
RE: RE: RE: It's not like we can do anything with the cap space anyway
Sure, we could extend Eli and/or Prince, but I'm betting Eli's dollars are already earmarked, and they want to see if Prince stays healthy this year before committing longterm to him too.
Not true. The money can be rolled over into 2016. This is an enormous detail that seems to be ignored.
My brain isnt working right now, but are you saying we have an extra 15 million if we let him walk?
That's what he is slated to earn in 2015 under the franchise tag. If the Giants drop the tag, he becomes a free agent and the money they had earmarked they can now use elsewhere, including rolling over into 2016.
It's a no brainer. If JJ Watt had this exact injury at this exact time, would you want the Giants to give him a 1 year 15 million deal?
It;s the amputation plus other burns on the same hand and the other hand. At this point, we have no idea whatsoever how much other damage was done, or the time frame for the other healing.
Yeah, it's probably less than on the amputated finger, but the effect could be cumulative. How would we know at this point--or even how would the Giants know, given how little cooperation they have gotten from JPP?
of a DE rotation that includes unproven Damontre Moore, Ayers coming back off surgery, George Selvie, a raw Odi, and Wynn. I'd think we'd need one more if we're going the rescind route.
Kinda lacks the star quality we're expecting out of our DE's.
RE: I agree with Go Terps. JPP is now a large liability
And in how many of your examples, did we need to get a very high level replacement in mid-July for the upcoming season?
I agree it shouldn't be as much of an issue by next year, but this year? He won't be replaced effectively, I suspect. At the very least, it's a drop down in talent at a position where the next best player is a significant step down, and each succeeding player is likely another drop down.
This was Jason Pierre-Pauls decision to amputate his finger. This sounds like a Ronnie Lott situation. Hes still in surgery now.
24 retweets 6 favorites
back then players would play with 1 arm and still be effective, now no chance.
Based on the original assumption that JPP's injuries weren't so serious, I was in the camp that said the "get rid of JPP" crowd was being too impulsive.
The biggest reason for my view (which I still believe) is that if you take JPP off of this team, the Giants are much less likely to seriously challenge for the division. He's one of the top 4-5 players on the team.
But as Go Terps points out, you have to factor in at some point what kind of player are you getting for $15 million and could that money be spent better.
Tuck your index finger into your hand and try to pick something up (and pretend it's cut off at the knuckle). Normal people can adapt but JPP has an unusual profession where hand play is critical. I can't imagine that this won't impact his game.
I always felt that if JPP got a huge contract that he
Osi comes to mind, lol. Is adding Osi the difference in winning the division this year? I don't think so, but I guess one never knows.
It comes down to whether the Giants think JPP can perform with three fingers and a thumb on his left hand. But, technically, he's not a Giant until he signs the franchise tag. If he signs the tag, he gets the 15 million. If the Giants rescind the tag, he surely signs somewhere else who is willing to take on the risk.
So, when are they permitted to look at him and evaluate whether he can actually be effective as is? It's the weirdest catch 22 I've ever seen.
too is this is a new defense and both Spagnuolo and Nunn said he was already behind because of the missed work in the spring. Nunn was positive he could catch up if he came to training camp in the right frame of mind and he worked at it. But he can't do that now. Hell, he may not sign the tender at all until the regular season (the NFI shit) and because of that, he'll miss the classroom stuff too.
RE: RE: Generally, HIPAA protects a patient's confidential medical information
from being disclosed to a third party by a medical provider, health plan or health clearinghouse without the patient's consent. Clearly ESPN is not his medical provider or health plan.
ESPN can still be liable if they had reason to believe the information was obtained illegally.
And you know this from your day job of being a.......ESPN wannabe stat nerd?
here has to be a long one. Getting used to your hand taking on a completely new dimension has to be a challenge let alone the soreness and pain Once the hand takes on contact it will throb. JPP and the Giants are screwed this year. Hope we find new talent to replace him. As someone said next man up.
it sucks for JPP and sucks for the Giants. But you know what? A lot goes wrong for these guys during the offseason...at least he didn't get suspended for breaking the law or being an a**hole.
That would be worse.
Umm... he still has that issue out there too but I kinda knew it was bad when the police seem to be giving off we don't want to kick him when he is down. But his legal trouble may not be over.
it sucks for JPP and sucks for the Giants. But you know what? A lot goes wrong for these guys during the offseason...at least he didn't get suspended for breaking the law or being an a**hole.
That would be worse.
Umm... he still has that issue out there too but I kinda knew it was bad when the police seem to be giving off we don't want to kick him when he is down. But his legal trouble may not be over.
this isn't like carrying a gun in NY like Plax. Several law enforcement departments have said they aren't pressing charges. He's pretty clear legally.
He's been a total selfish dick this whole team. You'd think the thought would have crossed his mind that perhaps seeing as how this is a contract year if ever he were put his mind to it, it'd be now and instead he tweets and brags about his fireworks without a care in the world.
Just shows you what a total, clueless,mi nature, irresponsible man child he is who will never take anything seriously. Eff him and his mindlessness.
This is a league where a big deal is made if a guy has arms that are an inch shorter than someone else's. We're talking about a guy not only missing a finger but coming off a terrible injury and presumably missing all or a lot of camp.
If JPP were entering the draft in this condition he'd go undrafted, yet we should pay him $15 million? No thanks.
Exactly my thought. Why wouldn't he allow the Giants to get involved and get him to a top notch doctor. To me not doing that shows more stupidity than the accident.
Way to go with the over the top stereotypes. Because there can't possibly be good doctors outside the NE. There aren't top surgeons in many locations in the U.S.
The bad news, imo, is the over time part. I cannot imagine that he will be able to heal and then adapt to the physiological changes from the amputation and the other burns, and to the psychological damage and the adaptation related to that, in a single season.
The idea that he will be back to even a pale imitation of his prior self by, say, mid-season, is inconceivable to me. I wish I could think otherwise, but I just don't see how to get there.
It's so odd to have a football player missing an index finger that I can see him getting more celebrity from this if he can come back and be effective.
The world is crazy that way.
This is a league where a big deal is made if a guy has arms that are an inch shorter than someone else's. We're talking about a guy not only missing a finger but coming off a terrible injury and presumably missing all or a lot of camp.
If JPP were entering the draft in this condition he'd go undrafted, yet we should pay him $15 million? No thanks.
This is my thought right here. We would be killing Reese if the draft was held today for taking a guy in the 1st round top 5 that just had his finger amputated. I don't see how you can let that man sign anything until he waive whatever and prove he can still function as a pass rusher in the NFL. That's insane.
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?
A DE with limited ability to grab and tackle?
An index finger is NOT going to make all that much difference. Having the thumb is what's critical. I speak from considerable experience here.
There is plenty they can do with that cap space. Mathis, Jake Long? Others. Maybe JPP would be willing to sign a more workable deal on a prove it contract in light of this? Lot the Giants can do with tying up $15m bucks.
But the "power grip" comment does make sense to me. I could see how the index finger wouldn't impact the "power grip" as much as the ring or middle. Hopefully that's the case.
Not true. The money can be rolled over into 2016. This is an enormous detail that seems to be ignored.
He has the money, He should have went to best specialist he could find.
For Instance..If it were his knee I am sure he would see James Andrews. Saint Barnabus Burn Center in NJ and HSS are the best hospitals for Burn and recovery care
Quote:
Sure, we could extend Eli and/or Prince, but I'm betting Eli's dollars are already earmarked, and they want to see if Prince stays healthy this year before committing longterm to him too.
Not true. The money can be rolled over into 2016. This is an enormous detail that seems to be ignored.
My brain isnt working right now, but are you saying we have an extra 15 million if we let him walk?
Quote:
unless it was his thumb I don't see how he's "limited" in anything really. Maybe jersey grabbing?
Take a step back and think about it.
Go pick up something. Then tell me not having your index finger doesn't limit that ability.
It doesn't.
Quote:
Sure, we could extend Eli and/or Prince, but I'm betting Eli's dollars are already earmarked, and they want to see if Prince stays healthy this year before committing longterm to him too.
There is plenty they can do with that cap space. Mathis, Jake Long? Others. Maybe JPP would be willing to sign a more workable deal on a prove it contract in light of this? Lot the Giants can do with tying up $15m bucks.
I see the point, but I think if they wanted to sign Mathis and/or Jake Long, they would do it already. IIRC, we still have cap space and the ability to extend Eli to create more.
If JPP was willing to sign a 1 yr prove it kind of deal, that'd probably be best for all parties involved. But technically, he's not a Giant till he signs the tag. So if they pull the tag, what's to make him sign back here? He can sign anywhere for likely more money and more years. So it's kind of a catch-22 for the Giants.
Do you pull the tag and potentially lose the player? Or do you pay him the full 15 million and hope he plays at a high level in his prove it year?
Apparently he has a fractured thumb as well.
Listen we already know that moral and ethics matter more to some more than others.
If P.Owens was the surgeon and it is at U of Miami Medical Center, then that guy is a hand specialist and seems to have a solid background. And had a fellowship at HSS btw.
Quote:
In comment 12363105 PetesHereNow said:
Quote:
Sure, we could extend Eli and/or Prince, but I'm betting Eli's dollars are already earmarked, and they want to see if Prince stays healthy this year before committing longterm to him too.
Not true. The money can be rolled over into 2016. This is an enormous detail that seems to be ignored.
My brain isnt working right now, but are you saying we have an extra 15 million if we let him walk?
That's what he is slated to earn in 2015 under the franchise tag. If the Giants drop the tag, he becomes a free agent and the money they had earmarked they can now use elsewhere, including rolling over into 2016.
It's a no brainer. If JJ Watt had this exact injury at this exact time, would you want the Giants to give him a 1 year 15 million deal?
No brainer. Drop the tag and move on.
That money can go to a OT, LB, keeping Prince, towards Eli. If Moore and Owa can groom a little bit under Spags, then we can move on from him.
Last time I checked, we did just fine moving on a from the ass who shot himself in 2008. We can move on from JPP too.
When Barber retired, we replaced him with Jacobs and Bradshaw and we were fine.
Strahan retires, we had the parts to move on.
This guy is not irreplaceable.
Yeah, it's probably less than on the amputated finger, but the effect could be cumulative. How would we know at this point--or even how would the Giants know, given how little cooperation they have gotten from JPP?
Kinda lacks the star quality we're expecting out of our DE's.
I agree it shouldn't be as much of an issue by next year, but this year? He won't be replaced effectively, I suspect. At the very least, it's a drop down in talent at a position where the next best player is a significant step down, and each succeeding player is likely another drop down.
This was Jason Pierre-Pauls decision to amputate his finger. This sounds like a Ronnie Lott situation. Hes still in surgery now.
24 retweets 6 favorites
back then players would play with 1 arm and still be effective, now no chance.
The biggest reason for my view (which I still believe) is that if you take JPP off of this team, the Giants are much less likely to seriously challenge for the division. He's one of the top 4-5 players on the team.
But as Go Terps points out, you have to factor in at some point what kind of player are you getting for $15 million and could that money be spent better.
Tuck your index finger into your hand and try to pick something up (and pretend it's cut off at the knuckle). Normal people can adapt but JPP has an unusual profession where hand play is critical. I can't imagine that this won't impact his game.
It comes down to whether the Giants think JPP can perform with three fingers and a thumb on his left hand. But, technically, he's not a Giant until he signs the franchise tag. If he signs the tag, he gets the 15 million. If the Giants rescind the tag, he surely signs somewhere else who is willing to take on the risk.
So, when are they permitted to look at him and evaluate whether he can actually be effective as is? It's the weirdest catch 22 I've ever seen.
Quote:
from being disclosed to a third party by a medical provider, health plan or health clearinghouse without the patient's consent. Clearly ESPN is not his medical provider or health plan.
ESPN can still be liable if they had reason to believe the information was obtained illegally.
And you know this from your day job of being a.......ESPN wannabe stat nerd?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxIozFhI9qs Link - ( New Window )
That was tough to watch.
I just don't see how JPP could ever play at the level he was when he burst on to the scene let alone play at an average level.
That would be worse.
Umm... he still has that issue out there too but I kinda knew it was bad when the police seem to be giving off we don't want to kick him when he is down. But his legal trouble may not be over.
Quote:
it sucks for JPP and sucks for the Giants. But you know what? A lot goes wrong for these guys during the offseason...at least he didn't get suspended for breaking the law or being an a**hole.
That would be worse.
Umm... he still has that issue out there too but I kinda knew it was bad when the police seem to be giving off we don't want to kick him when he is down. But his legal trouble may not be over.
this isn't like carrying a gun in NY like Plax. Several law enforcement departments have said they aren't pressing charges. He's pretty clear legally.
Just shows you what a total, clueless,mi nature, irresponsible man child he is who will never take anything seriously. Eff him and his mindlessness.