Kim Jones on WFAN this morning talking JPP

between the two camps.

If all is harmonious and JPP says sign me now, I'll do whatever it takes to make this right, and Giants say do what it takes and we'll pay you, I can see maybe paying him a full shot. better would be for both sides to make some concessions on pay.

If JPP continues to block out Giants med staff, and holds off on signing the tender so he can 'set his own timetable for return', missing team meetings and learning opportunities, I wouldn't feel bad at all about the Giants playing hardball in return.

Kim Jones reports that the Giants are willing to do their part. Now it's up to JPP to step up to the plate. If he wants to hold out til the end of preseason, he's likely to be useless for most of the season, and likely to be gone after the year. At that point, I'd yank the tag and say sayonara. No real reason to take care of anyone who wants it all.

But on the other hand, if he's not in camp at day 1 trying to learn the new system, he'll be much less useful when he signs the tender and return.

The Giants better be contacting every hand specialist they know and don't know to find out as much as they can about the recovery process.

In comment 12363334 donnyfootball said:

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is a stone cold fox

She is a great reporter but listening to her radio show is cringe worthy. She embarrasses herself.

In comment 12363406 trueblueinpw said:

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I'm just wondering why the FAN is talking about pro football when's so much is going on with the Mets farm system. Brought to you by www police officers right to Sue. Back with Bennie Agbayans cleaning lady after the 20/20

+!

Does anyone else hate the way that guy in the Jake's Mint Chew commercial says:

i didn't worry about the risks...

but now i'm older
with a family
now I need to


Fucking annoys the shit out of me every time.

because he still may be a good player with modified expectations of what he's going to get. Or he may be motivated to do what it takes to be a premium player, and we catch him unable to cash in at a premium price.

He isn't automatically washed up.

or it might be the exact opposite of what I just wrote.

I don't think it's worth a 15 mil gamble, but then I don't know any of the inner workings. The Giants obviously thought he was worth 15 mil for the year on July 3rd, when you and I didn't.

which most obviously has to be the case - the reports that he might miss 2-6 weeks due to an amputation, broken thumb and skin grafts are nothing short of ludicrous - there is absolutely no way I'm paying any money for the rights to POSSIBLY help the team later in the season. Better to cut bait, help JPP with his medical expenses, etc. outside of the cap, and use that money next year to sure up other players and strengthen the club.

In comment 12363382 Giants2012 said:

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In comment 12363359 Go Terps said: Quote: I'll repeat what I said on another thread: if JJ Watt (a better player than JPP) suffered this exact injury at this exact time, would you want the Giants to sign him to a 1 year, $15 million deal? No way. It's a horrendous allocation of cap space that can be rolled over into 2016. Even if JPP really wants to stay with the Giants, there is zero reason the Giants should want him or care where he goes once he's healthy enough to play. It's a tough call b/c, as you know, you don't want his ability to come back and bite the Giants. Pencil him in down in Dallas with Hardy across from him. Are you/we ready for that? Logically, yeah, you're probably correct. It's a miserable allocation of cap space which would be better suited for next year and the guy likely won't have much of an impact.

"Hardy across from him"??? Were you thinking of Beatty?

I just don't understand how anyone in their right mind can imagine JPP being an impact player from this point forward. The idiot would have been better off if a part of his head was blown off as it was probably the only thing getting in the way of him being considered great.

"Norman and Cartoon"

they have to believe that JPP will in fact contribute this season.

That's just it...you keep insisting that this would be a poor allocation of money but you and I don't know what JPP's recovery time is projected to be. IF he's projected to be fine half way through camp give or take a week, the Giants will pay him the FT money.

This team hasn't made the playoffs in 3 years. If they feel JPP can play this year they are going to pay him. They aren't waiting until next year. Next year the entire staff could be wiped out.

AGain, we don't know what his recovery time looks like but many reports are saying 6 weeks. That's fine. Don't you think the Giants would pull back the FT if JPP's 2015 season was in serious jeopardy? Think man...

Very likely he'll be on the NFI list for 6 to 8 weeks. So the Giants could pay $7 to $9 million on the gamble that he can play the last 8 to 10 games.

Not reactionary, but very pragmatic. This is a shitty situation but if that point is true, they're actually leveraging it nicely to get the most out of JPP.

The Giants are nothing if not prepared and methodical. They are most likely already in the process of executing their plan to keep the guys they want to keep long term (Eli, Prince), while also factoring in that they were counting on paying the 1-year tag for JPP before all of this stuff happened.

I doubt that the Giants view this accident as a chance to "save" that money and roll it into next season. More likely they view it as losing a big piece of their 2015 plans, without the opportunity to replace him. They probably feel, and rightly so, that only their defense and team would be hurt by that at this point.

Coming up with a plan to get him healthy and back around the team, especially one that puts him on the field at the start or within the first few weeks of the season is probably their best bet at this point.

In comment 12363523 Mike in Long Beach said:

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Not reactionary, but very pragmatic.

Kinda typical for them, no?

The question of the day is will Joe and Evan start off the show with JPP or the Mets ????

In comment 12363531 BIG FRED 1973 said:

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The question of the day is will Joe and Evan start off the show with JPP or the Mets ????

Mets, my guess.

In comment 12363531 BIG FRED 1973 said:

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The question of the day is will Joe and Evan start off the show with JPP or the Mets ????

Knicks and Nets

You know why? Because they've never dealt with a situation even remotely similar to this.

This needs to be said over and over: the guy had his finger amputated. I can't believe we're even talking about him playing in 2015. Whatever you think of JPP, what he is going through (and will go through as he rehabs) is an enormously horrifying experience.

The guy has been utterly traumatized, and we expect him to have his mind and body right to play pro football in two or three months? It's nuts.

And yes, I'm sure the Giants have their financial plans in place going forward. That doesn't mean they couldn't use an extra $15 million in cap space in 2016.

the average IQ on this Board drops another 30 points. Maybe some of you started watching football in 2012. We don't win the Superbowl after the 2011 season without JPP. He single handedly (no finger jokes, please) beat Dallas in Dallas that year in a game that would have eliminated us from the playoffs. A back injury limited him in 2012 and 2013 and it was exacerbated in 2013 by the fact he was the only d lineman teams would consider doubling. Last year with constant doubling he had 12.5 sacks. He's not JJ Watt but he's one of the 10 best d ends in the game. The Redskins Cowboys and, maybe even the Eagles, would all do what we're doing, which is to try to hang on to a difference maker long term. It is not about the Giants being a class organization; it is about winning.

Look, who knows what the hell it's like to lose their index finger, God knows I wouldnt want to lose mine and I don't play sports for a living.

The fact is though, the finger was cut off as the cleanest/quickest option to get back on the field. If nothing else, that tells me that he CAN get back on the field and wants to get back on the field ASAP.

Furthermore, JPP makes a living off of his rare combo of size, speed and athleticism. Sure there is an element of hand fighting/positioning, but again I don't see that as making or breaking JPP as a player. Guys go out there and play without use of their hands all the time, Sean Lee a few years ago, Diehl played LT with a shattered pinky in a splint, Ronnie Lott, there are probably a ton others.

His conditioning and weight training will be an issue, but again I'll trust the Giants strength and conditioning staff to help get him ready around the clock.

In comment 12363577 WillieYoung said:

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the average IQ on this Board drops another 30 points. Maybe some of you started watching football in 2012. We don't win the Superbowl after the 2011 season without JPP. He single handedly (no finger jokes, please) beat Dallas in Dallas that year in a game that would have eliminated us from the playoffs. A back injury limited him in 2012 and 2013 and it was exacerbated in 2013 by the fact he was the only d lineman teams would consider doubling. Last year with constant doubling he had 12.5 sacks. He's not JJ Watt but he's one of the 10 best d ends in the game. The Redskins Cowboys and, maybe even the Eagles, would all do what we're doing, which is to try to hang on to a difference maker long term. It is not about the Giants being a class organization; it is about winning.

You are correct sir!

when it's something of a unique situation.

I hope he comes back and plays well if only to see how that's received by the same people who seem to be confident his career is over.

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the average IQ on this Board drops another 30 points. Maybe some of you started watching football in 2012. We don't win the Superbowl after the 2011 season without JPP. He single handedly (no finger jokes, please) beat Dallas in Dallas that year in a game that would have eliminated us from the playoffs. A back injury limited him in 2012 and 2013 and it was exacerbated in 2013 by the fact he was the only d lineman teams would consider doubling. Last year with constant doubling he had 12.5 sacks.

I hate to have that "what have you done for us lately" mentality but we're far removed from 2011. Due to injury or dogging it, JPP hasn't been the same caliber player since that Superbowl run. His production last year isn't an anomoly - it was a contract year for him.

I question the fact whether JPP is worth $15 million with 10 fingers. That's a lot of money to tie up in a player who has shown the kind of inconsistency and proneness to injury he has. Now that he has 9 fingers, will more than likely lose considerable time learning a new system and getting back on the field, his worth has sunk faster than the Titanic IMO.

that is, they are leaving the door wide open for JPP to come in and still have a break-out dominating late season, which he will need to have for so many reasons, his career, his reputation and for the TEAM.

and yet, in such a way as the ball is really in his court, it will be totally up to him to take all the needed steps.

In comment 12363590 Chris684 said:

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Look, who knows what the hell it's like to lose their index finger, God knows I wouldnt want to lose mine and I don't play sports for a living. The fact is though, the finger was cut off as the cleanest/quickest option to get back on the field. If nothing else, that tells me that he CAN get back on the field and wants to get back on the field ASAP. Furthermore, JPP makes a living off of his rare combo of size, speed and athleticism. Sure there is an element of hand fighting/positioning, but again I don't see that as making or breaking JPP as a player. Guys go out there and play without use of their hands all the time, Sean Lee a few years ago, Diehl played LT with a shattered pinky in a splint, Ronnie Lott, there are probably a ton others. His conditioning and weight training will be an issue, but again I'll trust the Giants strength and conditioning staff to help get him ready around the clock.

Even if he gets to the season in shape, the mental hurdle will still be enormous. And his hands aren't "an element" of his game...any lineman would tell you their hands are crucial. This is an enormous burden that he is going to carry with him in whatever is left of his career.

And this is on top of the fact that he clearly feels financial pressure because he knows that his livelihood is right now dangling on the edge of a cliff. None of this makes for the mindset you want a player to have...and that's on top of the physical challenges he's going to face in an incredibly short time frame.

This isn't a video game. He's a person. To expect him to immediately revert to something resembling the player he was in the face of all of this is wholly unreasonable.

This decision seems to have been 100% his (in conjunction with the doctors). He doesn't have to discuss his health with the giants, especially while not technically under contract. But, if he was Hell bent on playing for them, I think it would have been wise to consult their medical staff as well. The giants are not an organization that typically screws its players. in fact, they are generally generous and fair with injured players and air on the side of caution, with the player's overall health a huge factor.

As for the quick return, this also seems to be coming from his camp. We haven't heard anything from his doctors and we obviously haven't heard anything from the giants as they haven't even been able to see him. But, the amputation is only part of the issue. He also had grafts, which will take a couple of months, if not more to heal to the point where he can start putting pressure on the injured part. There will also have to be plenty of OT and PT just to deal with the amputation alone, and a lot of that will likely have to take place after the grafts heal more. Lastly, we have no clue about any possible nerve damage from the injury or the amputation.

While he may not have been playing a game with the giants to try to become a FA, I think his actions were intended to at least partly deceive the Giants organization. I won't believe any of the spin on this until we hear from medical professionals who have actually seen JPP. Until them, I am not holding my breath that he will be anywhere near ready to start the season, especially given his track record with a poor work ethic.

it will be one of the more dramatic 'show me' efforts in recent memory.

if not, well.

She is one of the few female sports journalists I actually like. It doesn't hurt that she is attractive. She is not the fox that a lot of the younger women getting hired are and she certainly is getting on the older side for females in the sports journalist world. But, her actual journalism and knowledge is better than any of the other females and better than most males. I enjoy listening to what she has to say a lot more than plenty of regulars on the radio and TV. she does have a few annoying phrases she overuses. But, her actual comments and insights are worth putting up with the annoyances. Her written work is also very good.

By far, she was the best person to listen to about the Penn State scandal as it unfolded.

I would wager her info is spot on.

NYG has all the leverage unless they emotionally decide to pull the tender.

JPP version 2011 hasn't been seen since 2011, btw. They're a better team with him, but that doesn't mean pay the man at any cost. There's a decision process and dollar evaluation in place, and now that may need to be adjusted.

I think that evaluation is the best I've read. I like the way you put it...they are a better team with him, which is hard to argue against. But, that doesn't justify overpaying for him or taking an unnecessary cap hit.

I'm not sure we can say they're a better team with him anymore, because we no longer know what he is.

In comment 12363640 JonC said:

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NYG has all the leverage unless they emotionally decide to pull the tender. JPP version 2011 hasn't been seen since 2011, btw. They're a better team with him, but that doesn't mean pay the man at any cost. There's a decision process and dollar evaluation in place, and now that may need to be adjusted.

well said

In comment 12363628 Matt M. said:

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She is one of the few female sports journalists I actually like. It doesn't hurt that she is attractive. She is not the fox that a lot of the younger women getting hired are and she certainly is getting on the older side for females in the sports journalist world. But, her actual journalism and knowledge is better than any of the other females and better than most males. I enjoy listening to what she has to say a lot more than plenty of regulars on the radio and TV. she does have a few annoying phrases she overuses. But, her actual comments and insights are worth putting up with the annoyances. Her written work is also very good. By far, she was the best person to listen to about the Penn State scandal as it unfolded.

Agree. She is a reporter, not a tomato.

She was great with the Penn State thing. And Mike was smart enough to give her free rein as it was breaking.

In comment 12363350 Victor in CT said:

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at least puzzled if not pissed off. Raplh V column - ( New Window )

Read carefully what was said by Ralph and Kim. Kim is almost certainly using someone close to JPP- if not JPP's agent for her info, while Ralph went to the team.

IMO, the two sides are now engaged in a full-on PR war. JPP's handlers now know they bungled this completely. Note how ALL of Kim's material is in JPP's favor- why would the team take those positions when they have not even been able to contact him?

No, IMO, this is JPP's agent floating a negotiating trial balloon in the media. Note specifically how the agent is now putting the onus of the Giants- give him all his money if he just shows up and goes through the motions while recovering and no putting him on NFI. JPP wants his money no matter how much this was his fault is the agent's position- I cannot imagine this is going to go over well at Giants HQ. Oh yes, and of course the agent NEVER had the idea to get the Giants to pull that tender- NEVER crossed his mind. Right...

Ralph is capturing the Giants frustration with JPP. Notice NONE of the trial balloons floated by Kim were grabbed or even addressed. IMO, the Giants are sending JPP and his agent a message- let our doctors look at you and get an assessment and THEN we will talk about how we move forward.

because they have no idea what kind of player he will be after this accident and throwing big money at a player who may never even come close to what he was is not good business, very tough decision to make...

for sure, and that won't play out until the team is afforded a detailed examination of JPP and lots of consults with HSS and other resources.

Back to the Kim Jones' claim (and I'm in 100% agreement with MattM) that JPP "wants to play for the Giants": There has been much commentary on the site about JPP's moronic and immature decisions, his lack of ethics or principles, his sleazy motives, etc. Other than the moronic decision/immaturity aspect of this, the rest is BBI armchair speculation at its finest (and some jaw-dropping posts).

I think there is a better case to be made that if something as physically destructive happened to many of us, the psychological reaction might be as strong or stronger. That is to say, this accident and injury might trigger a strong come to Jesus moment (not in the organized religion context) in which an individual comes face-to-face with some powerful feelings and self-assessments. It might prompt a reassessment of the team, teammates, staff etc. with whom he's spent the past five years, for the better.

This does not necessarily change one iota the re-assessment that the Giants now have to make, but the chemistry and dynamic of their relationship and future negotiations, IF ANY, might be altered. Just saying, and this more speculation for sure, but events like this have a tendency to re-calibrate a life.

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This isn't a video game. He's a person. To expect him to immediately revert to something resembling the player he was in the face of all of this is wholly unreasonable.

I'm not sure we're going to get our $15 million out of this investment. If the season goes south early and JPP returns late in the year then tears it up who is that going to benefit?

The Giants have hold the cards as his client lies in his hospital bed, his right hand mangled.

I don't see him back this year, so for the team to STILL give him the big bucks ! Parker needs to tell JPP - "Do everything they ask and worry about next year, next year"

I hear you, but I'd be pretty surprised if they pulled the tender and punted.

rich, I think you're all over the situation, thank you.

CHP, agreed, I'll simply point to rich's post and say have at it, I think he's on target.

that they're going to agree on the franchise tag?

Unless the relationship is destroyed, I think it's a safer bet that they eventually come together on a show-me 1 year deal that's nowhere near the cost of the franchise tag.

There's absolutely no way his agent can feel confident that he's going to do better on the open market now.

You think any team will give him anything more than a 1 year show me deal at this point?

have jpp donate a portion to firework safety for kids

... I'm going to guess you don't know her. Obviously, certain information is coming from people close to Pierre-Paul - like the assertion that he wants to play for the Giants - and needs no corroboration from the team. But there's no way she would say what the team is or isn't inclined to do, based solely on info from an agent.

So maybe she worded it in a way that qualified the information as unconfirmed.

In comment 12363847 ron mexico said:

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You think any team will give him anything more than a 1 year show me deal at this point?

Someone would pay him maybe a few million plus incentives, but nothing near the tender we have on the table.

A little bit of leaven runs through all the dough. That simply means JPP's attitude not just with this mishap but in the past leads me to believe he's a bit of an ass. Yeah, he's still young and the NFL is a brutal sport so management isn't always to be trusted either but to diss Ronnie Barnes just "smells" bad to me. He has lost goodwill with the fan base here in NYC.

If he were released tomorrow would anyone truly be surprised? I mean, he may miss the beginning of the season and not be able to play with the pads on through camp. How much are we going to get out of him when you consider it is $15 MILLION due! I'm wondering if the money can't be spent better on contracts we have right in front of us.

I mean, lets say TE Robinson and WR Randle have STUNNING camps. Maybe you want to sign them longer-term NOW and use that money here? Just saying....

In comment 12363783 JonC said:

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I hear you, but I'd be pretty surprised if they pulled the tender and punted. rich, I think you're all over the situation, thank you. CHP, agreed, I'll simply point to rich's post and say have at it, I think he's on target.

I would be too. I only see them compounding the error they made when they franchised him.

In comment 12363954 SGMen said:

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In comment 12363847 ron mexico said: Quote: You think any team will give him anything more than a 1 year show me deal at this point? Someone would pay him maybe a few million plus incentives, but nothing near the tender we have on the table. A little bit of leaven runs through all the dough. That simply means JPP's attitude not just with this mishap but in the past leads me to believe he's a bit of an ass. Yeah, he's still young and the NFL is a brutal sport so management isn't always to be trusted either but to diss Ronnie Barnes just "smells" bad to me. He has lost goodwill with the fan base here in NYC. If he were released tomorrow would anyone truly be surprised? I mean, he may miss the beginning of the season and not be able to play with the pads on through camp. How much are we going to get out of him when you consider it is $15 MILLION due! I'm wondering if the money can't be spent better on contracts we have right in front of us. I mean, lets say TE Robinson and WR Randle have STUNNING camps. Maybe you want to sign them longer-term NOW and use that money here? Just saying....

The Giants have NOTHING on the table, just the franchise tag. There was no offer of $60 million made. It was in Ralph Vs column yesterday.

but the framework NYG was trying to get them to agree to was apparently in the $12M AAV range. Extrapolate that and you're looking at a 5/60 framework to build from ...