She was on with Mark Melusis subbing for Boomer & Carton. Here's what she reported as they started the show:
• As already stated: the amputation was done as the fastest way for him to recover and get back on the field
• Her sources say that his agent claimed not to be using the injury to force the Giants into pulling the franchise tag so that JPP could become an immediate free agent and sign to play for someone else: ”He wants to play for the Giants”
• Kim asked and her source seemed to confirm that the Giants would be willing to pay JPP all of the $14M under the tender and not put him on NFI to dock his pay IF he would report for camp and heal while attending meetings and learned Spags system. This would allow him to be mentally ready for whenever he is physically able to play
I like Kim. Don't know how strong her sources are on this. It's at least a more positive spin
Do you think the Cowboys, Redskins or Eagles would do this or would be finding ways to save themselves a some money?
Yeah. Me neither.
Sorry - there's no optimism here. If we get effective play out of him for the second half of the season, we'll be lucky.
What a shame. What a waste.
Still pissed off. In my years I've seen HUNDREDS of reckless episodes with fireworks. Nobody ever went to the hospital, never mind losing body parts.
Giants really are cursed.
Key point though: the decision to amputate was JPPs idea of a speedier recovery, not the Giants. And we still don't know what if any skin grafting was done.
Raplh V column - ( New Window )
I was thinking this also. Even if he's healed after two months, he would have gone two months without lifting weights. How long would it take him to get his strength back once he is able to start lifting?
I'll repeat what I said on another thread: if JJ Watt (a better player than JPP) suffered this exact injury at this exact time, would you want the Giants to sign him to a 1 year, $15 million deal?
No way. It's a horrendous allocation of cap space that can be rolled over into 2016.
Even if JPP really wants to stay with the Giants, there is zero reason the Giants should want him or care where he goes once he's healthy enough to play.
Quote:
the Giants would be willing to pay JPP all of the $14M under the tender and not put him on NFI to dock his pay
Do you think the Cowboys, Redskins or Eagles would do this or would be finding ways to save themselves a some money?
I need no additional evidence to know what a great class organization the Giants are, however, I disagree with this decision if it is indeed what they want to do. I want the team to move on because I don't think JPP will ever be worth the 14 million again. Certainly not in 2015 but also not in 16, 17, or 18. He's not dedicated to his craft enough to work as hard as he's going to need to work to overcome these new disabilities he will be dealing with. Just my opinion and it could be wrong but it is how I feel.
Hopefully her info is at least legit, though. It usually is.
Agreed.
Career threatening or not, safe to say his 2015/16 season is going to be effected.
Now what?
would any team be dumb enough to pay him 15 million a year ?
Kim works for NFL network and has better sources than most
I'll repeat what I said on another thread: if JJ Watt (a better player than JPP) suffered this exact injury at this exact time, would you want the Giants to sign him to a 1 year, $15 million deal?
No way. It's a horrendous allocation of cap space that can be rolled over into 2016.
Even if JPP really wants to stay with the Giants, there is zero reason the Giants should want him or care where he goes once he's healthy enough to play.
It's a tough call b/c, as you know, you don't want his ability to come back and bite the Giants. Pencil him in down in Dallas with Hardy across from him. Are you/we ready for that?
Logically, yeah, you're probably correct. It's a miserable allocation of cap space which would be better suited for next year and the guy likely won't have much of an impact.
Jason Pierre-Paul's Medical Records May Have Been Released by His Own Camp: Report #giants #nyg #nfl t.co
Brought to you by www police officers right to Sue.
Back with Bennie Agbayans cleaning lady after the 20/20
Quote:
the Giants would be willing to pay JPP all of the $14M under the tender and not put him on NFI to dock his pay
Do you think the Cowboys, Redskins or Eagles would do this or would be finding ways to save themselves a some money?
He's not dedicated to his craft enough to work as hard as he's going to need to work to overcome these new disabilities he will be dealing with. Just my opinion and it could be wrong but it is how I feel. [/quote]
Prior to this wasn't he working out and losing weight to get back to being lighter and faster? On what evidence do you come up with the premise that he won't work hard to get back on the field?
The question is how will the effect his tackling etc
You can still pay him some serious ka-ching for that half year we're likely to get out of him. 15 mil is a lot of dough.
Link - ( New Window )
I wouldn't expect NYG to withhold half his pay even if he's out half the season. They can use the alienation to bolster their advantage if they need to, but I'd wager they'll treat him well regardless.
He had surgery the start of this week - 10 weeks until week 1
His thumb heals by week of 8/10 - that gives 4 full weeks after that
I guess I am more optimistic
You also get the sense that as usual, the Giants are genuinely concerned about the health and well being of the player, far more than many of the fans here who were making leaps to conspiracy theories about contract posturing while the guy was having his finger cut off.
Every season in the NFL is "win now" due to parity. If Kim Jones is right, she's saying that the Giants would rather pay the $14 million for JPP with 9 fingers than not use their cap space at all and lose one of their best players on the team.
You can still pay him some serious ka-ching for that half year we're likely to get out of him. 15 mil is a lot of dough.
To be honest, I don't really have an issue paying him a lump sum in one year. He's most likely gone after this season, and the Giants have arranged their cap in such a way that they can afford to do this without letting any of their other players walk out the door. They aren't losing the ability to keep a guy they want to keep, and there are no long-term ramifications to this. If he walks after 2015, then to me, it just means Prince has a better chance of staying with the team long term.
Truth is, if she were less ethical, she would have more sizzle and a more avid fan base. Instead, she sits on stories that other writers would run. I remember discussing this dilemma with her 10-12 years ago. The direction the industry was going really ate at her.
As fans, we kind of want it both ways: instant information, impeccably sourced. In general, I think you can get one out of two.
You can still pay him some serious ka-ching for that half year we're likely to get out of him. 15 mil is a lot of dough.
I'm with you..I believe it would be a mistake..He's gone after this year imo, why reward him now for unknown production?
Quote:
but 15 mil is a hell of a lot of taking care of a guy who probably would be gone to the highest bidder in a heartbeat. He was ready to walk if the Tag wasn't applied. You think he's going to remember this next year when FA rolls around?
You can still pay him some serious ka-ching for that half year we're likely to get out of him. 15 mil is a lot of dough.
I'm with you..I believe it would be a mistake..He's gone after this year imo, why reward him now for unknown production?
It's a calculated risk. He's playing for his next contract. You hope to reap the benefits of his effort. It's a lot of money, but it's not really any kind of commitment.
You can still pay him some serious ka-ching for that half year we're likely to get out of him. 15 mil is a lot of dough.
Even if he does remember it, why would we even want him back in 2016?
If all is harmonious and JPP says sign me now, I'll do whatever it takes to make this right, and Giants say do what it takes and we'll pay you, I can see maybe paying him a full shot. better would be for both sides to make some concessions on pay.
If JPP continues to block out Giants med staff, and holds off on signing the tender so he can 'set his own timetable for return', missing team meetings and learning opportunities, I wouldn't feel bad at all about the Giants playing hardball in return.
Kim Jones reports that the Giants are willing to do their part. Now it's up to JPP to step up to the plate. If he wants to hold out til the end of preseason, he's likely to be useless for most of the season, and likely to be gone after the year. At that point, I'd yank the tag and say sayonara. No real reason to take care of anyone who wants it all.
The Giants better be contacting every hand specialist they know and don't know to find out as much as they can about the recovery process.
She is a great reporter but listening to her radio show is cringe worthy. She embarrasses herself.
Brought to you by www police officers right to Sue.
Back with Bennie Agbayans cleaning lady after the 20/20
+!
i didn't worry about the risks...
but now i'm older
with a family
now I need to
Fucking annoys the shit out of me every time.
He isn't automatically washed up.
or it might be the exact opposite of what I just wrote.
I don't think it's worth a 15 mil gamble, but then I don't know any of the inner workings. The Giants obviously thought he was worth 15 mil for the year on July 3rd, when you and I didn't.
Quote:
I'll repeat what I said on another thread: if JJ Watt (a better player than JPP) suffered this exact injury at this exact time, would you want the Giants to sign him to a 1 year, $15 million deal?
No way. It's a horrendous allocation of cap space that can be rolled over into 2016.
Even if JPP really wants to stay with the Giants, there is zero reason the Giants should want him or care where he goes once he's healthy enough to play.
It's a tough call b/c, as you know, you don't want his ability to come back and bite the Giants. Pencil him in down in Dallas with Hardy across from him. Are you/we ready for that?
Logically, yeah, you're probably correct. It's a miserable allocation of cap space which would be better suited for next year and the guy likely won't have much of an impact.
"Hardy across from him"??? Were you thinking of Beatty?
I just don't understand how anyone in their right mind can imagine JPP being an impact player from this point forward. The idiot would have been better off if a part of his head was blown off as it was probably the only thing getting in the way of him being considered great.
That's just it...you keep insisting that this would be a poor allocation of money but you and I don't know what JPP's recovery time is projected to be. IF he's projected to be fine half way through camp give or take a week, the Giants will pay him the FT money.
This team hasn't made the playoffs in 3 years. If they feel JPP can play this year they are going to pay him. They aren't waiting until next year. Next year the entire staff could be wiped out.
AGain, we don't know what his recovery time looks like but many reports are saying 6 weeks. That's fine. Don't you think the Giants would pull back the FT if JPP's 2015 season was in serious jeopardy? Think man...
I doubt that the Giants view this accident as a chance to "save" that money and roll it into next season. More likely they view it as losing a big piece of their 2015 plans, without the opportunity to replace him. They probably feel, and rightly so, that only their defense and team would be hurt by that at this point.
Coming up with a plan to get him healthy and back around the team, especially one that puts him on the field at the start or within the first few weeks of the season is probably their best bet at this point.
Kinda typical for them, no?
Mets, my guess.
Knicks and Nets
This needs to be said over and over: the guy had his finger amputated. I can't believe we're even talking about him playing in 2015. Whatever you think of JPP, what he is going through (and will go through as he rehabs) is an enormously horrifying experience.
The guy has been utterly traumatized, and we expect him to have his mind and body right to play pro football in two or three months? It's nuts.
And yes, I'm sure the Giants have their financial plans in place going forward. That doesn't mean they couldn't use an extra $15 million in cap space in 2016.
The fact is though, the finger was cut off as the cleanest/quickest option to get back on the field. If nothing else, that tells me that he CAN get back on the field and wants to get back on the field ASAP.
Furthermore, JPP makes a living off of his rare combo of size, speed and athleticism. Sure there is an element of hand fighting/positioning, but again I don't see that as making or breaking JPP as a player. Guys go out there and play without use of their hands all the time, Sean Lee a few years ago, Diehl played LT with a shattered pinky in a splint, Ronnie Lott, there are probably a ton others.
His conditioning and weight training will be an issue, but again I'll trust the Giants strength and conditioning staff to help get him ready around the clock.
I hope he comes back and plays well if only to see how that's received by the same people who seem to be confident his career is over.
I hate to have that "what have you done for us lately" mentality but we're far removed from 2011. Due to injury or dogging it, JPP hasn't been the same caliber player since that Superbowl run. His production last year isn't an anomoly - it was a contract year for him.
I question the fact whether JPP is worth $15 million with 10 fingers. That's a lot of money to tie up in a player who has shown the kind of inconsistency and proneness to injury he has. Now that he has 9 fingers, will more than likely lose considerable time learning a new system and getting back on the field, his worth has sunk faster than the Titanic IMO.
and yet, in such a way as the ball is really in his court, it will be totally up to him to take all the needed steps.
The fact is though, the finger was cut off as the cleanest/quickest option to get back on the field. If nothing else, that tells me that he CAN get back on the field and wants to get back on the field ASAP.
Furthermore, JPP makes a living off of his rare combo of size, speed and athleticism. Sure there is an element of hand fighting/positioning, but again I don't see that as making or breaking JPP as a player. Guys go out there and play without use of their hands all the time, Sean Lee a few years ago, Diehl played LT with a shattered pinky in a splint, Ronnie Lott, there are probably a ton others.
His conditioning and weight training will be an issue, but again I'll trust the Giants strength and conditioning staff to help get him ready around the clock.
Even if he gets to the season in shape, the mental hurdle will still be enormous. And his hands aren't "an element" of his game...any lineman would tell you their hands are crucial. This is an enormous burden that he is going to carry with him in whatever is left of his career.
And this is on top of the fact that he clearly feels financial pressure because he knows that his livelihood is right now dangling on the edge of a cliff. None of this makes for the mindset you want a player to have...and that's on top of the physical challenges he's going to face in an incredibly short time frame.
This isn't a video game. He's a person. To expect him to immediately revert to something resembling the player he was in the face of all of this is wholly unreasonable.
As for the quick return, this also seems to be coming from his camp. We haven't heard anything from his doctors and we obviously haven't heard anything from the giants as they haven't even been able to see him. But, the amputation is only part of the issue. He also had grafts, which will take a couple of months, if not more to heal to the point where he can start putting pressure on the injured part. There will also have to be plenty of OT and PT just to deal with the amputation alone, and a lot of that will likely have to take place after the grafts heal more. Lastly, we have no clue about any possible nerve damage from the injury or the amputation.
While he may not have been playing a game with the giants to try to become a FA, I think his actions were intended to at least partly deceive the Giants organization. I won't believe any of the spin on this until we hear from medical professionals who have actually seen JPP. Until them, I am not holding my breath that he will be anywhere near ready to start the season, especially given his track record with a poor work ethic.
if not, well.
By far, she was the best person to listen to about the Penn State scandal as it unfolded.
JPP version 2011 hasn't been seen since 2011, btw. They're a better team with him, but that doesn't mean pay the man at any cost. There's a decision process and dollar evaluation in place, and now that may need to be adjusted.
JPP version 2011 hasn't been seen since 2011, btw. They're a better team with him, but that doesn't mean pay the man at any cost. There's a decision process and dollar evaluation in place, and now that may need to be adjusted.
well said
By far, she was the best person to listen to about the Penn State scandal as it unfolded.
Agree. She is a reporter, not a tomato.
She was great with the Penn State thing. And Mike was smart enough to give her free rein as it was breaking.
Read carefully what was said by Ralph and Kim. Kim is almost certainly using someone close to JPP- if not JPP's agent for her info, while Ralph went to the team.
IMO, the two sides are now engaged in a full-on PR war. JPP's handlers now know they bungled this completely. Note how ALL of Kim's material is in JPP's favor- why would the team take those positions when they have not even been able to contact him?
No, IMO, this is JPP's agent floating a negotiating trial balloon in the media. Note specifically how the agent is now putting the onus of the Giants- give him all his money if he just shows up and goes through the motions while recovering and no putting him on NFI. JPP wants his money no matter how much this was his fault is the agent's position- I cannot imagine this is going to go over well at Giants HQ. Oh yes, and of course the agent NEVER had the idea to get the Giants to pull that tender- NEVER crossed his mind. Right...
Ralph is capturing the Giants frustration with JPP. Notice NONE of the trial balloons floated by Kim were grabbed or even addressed. IMO, the Giants are sending JPP and his agent a message- let our doctors look at you and get an assessment and THEN we will talk about how we move forward.
Back to the Kim Jones' claim (and I'm in 100% agreement with MattM) that JPP "wants to play for the Giants": There has been much commentary on the site about JPP's moronic and immature decisions, his lack of ethics or principles, his sleazy motives, etc. Other than the moronic decision/immaturity aspect of this, the rest is BBI armchair speculation at its finest (and some jaw-dropping posts).
I think there is a better case to be made that if something as physically destructive happened to many of us, the psychological reaction might be as strong or stronger. That is to say, this accident and injury might trigger a strong come to Jesus moment (not in the organized religion context) in which an individual comes face-to-face with some powerful feelings and self-assessments. It might prompt a reassessment of the team, teammates, staff etc. with whom he's spent the past five years, for the better.
This does not necessarily change one iota the re-assessment that the Giants now have to make, but the chemistry and dynamic of their relationship and future negotiations, IF ANY, might be altered. Just saying, and this more speculation for sure, but events like this have a tendency to re-calibrate a life.
I'm not sure we're going to get our $15 million out of this investment. If the season goes south early and JPP returns late in the year then tears it up who is that going to benefit?
I don't see him back this year, so for the team to STILL give him the big bucks ! Parker needs to tell JPP - "Do everything they ask and worry about next year, next year"
rich, I think you're all over the situation, thank you.
CHP, agreed, I'll simply point to rich's post and say have at it, I think he's on target.
Unless the relationship is destroyed, I think it's a safer bet that they eventually come together on a show-me 1 year deal that's nowhere near the cost of the franchise tag.
There's absolutely no way his agent can feel confident that he's going to do better on the open market now.
A little bit of leaven runs through all the dough. That simply means JPP's attitude not just with this mishap but in the past leads me to believe he's a bit of an ass. Yeah, he's still young and the NFL is a brutal sport so management isn't always to be trusted either but to diss Ronnie Barnes just "smells" bad to me. He has lost goodwill with the fan base here in NYC.
If he were released tomorrow would anyone truly be surprised? I mean, he may miss the beginning of the season and not be able to play with the pads on through camp. How much are we going to get out of him when you consider it is $15 MILLION due! I'm wondering if the money can't be spent better on contracts we have right in front of us.
I mean, lets say TE Robinson and WR Randle have STUNNING camps. Maybe you want to sign them longer-term NOW and use that money here? Just saying....
rich, I think you're all over the situation, thank you.
CHP, agreed, I'll simply point to rich's post and say have at it, I think he's on target.
I would be too. I only see them compounding the error they made when they franchised him.
Quote:
You think any team will give him anything more than a 1 year show me deal at this point?
Someone would pay him maybe a few million plus incentives, but nothing near the tender we have on the table.
A little bit of leaven runs through all the dough. That simply means JPP's attitude not just with this mishap but in the past leads me to believe he's a bit of an ass. Yeah, he's still young and the NFL is a brutal sport so management isn't always to be trusted either but to diss Ronnie Barnes just "smells" bad to me. He has lost goodwill with the fan base here in NYC.
If he were released tomorrow would anyone truly be surprised? I mean, he may miss the beginning of the season and not be able to play with the pads on through camp. How much are we going to get out of him when you consider it is $15 MILLION due! I'm wondering if the money can't be spent better on contracts we have right in front of us.
I mean, lets say TE Robinson and WR Randle have STUNNING camps. Maybe you want to sign them longer-term NOW and use that money here? Just saying....
The Giants have NOTHING on the table, just the franchise tag. There was no offer of $60 million made. It was in Ralph Vs column yesterday.