Kim Jones on WFAN this morning talking JPP

The question of the day is will Joe and Evan start off the show with JPP or the Mets ????

In comment 12363531 BIG FRED 1973 said:

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The question of the day is will Joe and Evan start off the show with JPP or the Mets ????

Mets, my guess.

In comment 12363531 BIG FRED 1973 said:

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The question of the day is will Joe and Evan start off the show with JPP or the Mets ????

Knicks and Nets

You know why? Because they've never dealt with a situation even remotely similar to this.

This needs to be said over and over: the guy had his finger amputated. I can't believe we're even talking about him playing in 2015. Whatever you think of JPP, what he is going through (and will go through as he rehabs) is an enormously horrifying experience.

The guy has been utterly traumatized, and we expect him to have his mind and body right to play pro football in two or three months? It's nuts.

And yes, I'm sure the Giants have their financial plans in place going forward. That doesn't mean they couldn't use an extra $15 million in cap space in 2016.

the average IQ on this Board drops another 30 points. Maybe some of you started watching football in 2012. We don't win the Superbowl after the 2011 season without JPP. He single handedly (no finger jokes, please) beat Dallas in Dallas that year in a game that would have eliminated us from the playoffs. A back injury limited him in 2012 and 2013 and it was exacerbated in 2013 by the fact he was the only d lineman teams would consider doubling. Last year with constant doubling he had 12.5 sacks. He's not JJ Watt but he's one of the 10 best d ends in the game. The Redskins Cowboys and, maybe even the Eagles, would all do what we're doing, which is to try to hang on to a difference maker long term. It is not about the Giants being a class organization; it is about winning.

Look, who knows what the hell it's like to lose their index finger, God knows I wouldnt want to lose mine and I don't play sports for a living.

The fact is though, the finger was cut off as the cleanest/quickest option to get back on the field. If nothing else, that tells me that he CAN get back on the field and wants to get back on the field ASAP.

Furthermore, JPP makes a living off of his rare combo of size, speed and athleticism. Sure there is an element of hand fighting/positioning, but again I don't see that as making or breaking JPP as a player. Guys go out there and play without use of their hands all the time, Sean Lee a few years ago, Diehl played LT with a shattered pinky in a splint, Ronnie Lott, there are probably a ton others.

His conditioning and weight training will be an issue, but again I'll trust the Giants strength and conditioning staff to help get him ready around the clock.

In comment 12363577 WillieYoung said:

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the average IQ on this Board drops another 30 points. Maybe some of you started watching football in 2012. We don't win the Superbowl after the 2011 season without JPP. He single handedly (no finger jokes, please) beat Dallas in Dallas that year in a game that would have eliminated us from the playoffs. A back injury limited him in 2012 and 2013 and it was exacerbated in 2013 by the fact he was the only d lineman teams would consider doubling. Last year with constant doubling he had 12.5 sacks. He's not JJ Watt but he's one of the 10 best d ends in the game. The Redskins Cowboys and, maybe even the Eagles, would all do what we're doing, which is to try to hang on to a difference maker long term. It is not about the Giants being a class organization; it is about winning.

You are correct sir!

when it's something of a unique situation.

I hope he comes back and plays well if only to see how that's received by the same people who seem to be confident his career is over.

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the average IQ on this Board drops another 30 points. Maybe some of you started watching football in 2012. We don't win the Superbowl after the 2011 season without JPP. He single handedly (no finger jokes, please) beat Dallas in Dallas that year in a game that would have eliminated us from the playoffs. A back injury limited him in 2012 and 2013 and it was exacerbated in 2013 by the fact he was the only d lineman teams would consider doubling. Last year with constant doubling he had 12.5 sacks.

I hate to have that "what have you done for us lately" mentality but we're far removed from 2011. Due to injury or dogging it, JPP hasn't been the same caliber player since that Superbowl run. His production last year isn't an anomoly - it was a contract year for him.

I question the fact whether JPP is worth $15 million with 10 fingers. That's a lot of money to tie up in a player who has shown the kind of inconsistency and proneness to injury he has. Now that he has 9 fingers, will more than likely lose considerable time learning a new system and getting back on the field, his worth has sunk faster than the Titanic IMO.

that is, they are leaving the door wide open for JPP to come in and still have a break-out dominating late season, which he will need to have for so many reasons, his career, his reputation and for the TEAM.

and yet, in such a way as the ball is really in his court, it will be totally up to him to take all the needed steps.

In comment 12363590 Chris684 said:

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Look, who knows what the hell it's like to lose their index finger, God knows I wouldnt want to lose mine and I don't play sports for a living. The fact is though, the finger was cut off as the cleanest/quickest option to get back on the field. If nothing else, that tells me that he CAN get back on the field and wants to get back on the field ASAP. Furthermore, JPP makes a living off of his rare combo of size, speed and athleticism. Sure there is an element of hand fighting/positioning, but again I don't see that as making or breaking JPP as a player. Guys go out there and play without use of their hands all the time, Sean Lee a few years ago, Diehl played LT with a shattered pinky in a splint, Ronnie Lott, there are probably a ton others. His conditioning and weight training will be an issue, but again I'll trust the Giants strength and conditioning staff to help get him ready around the clock.

Even if he gets to the season in shape, the mental hurdle will still be enormous. And his hands aren't "an element" of his game...any lineman would tell you their hands are crucial. This is an enormous burden that he is going to carry with him in whatever is left of his career.

And this is on top of the fact that he clearly feels financial pressure because he knows that his livelihood is right now dangling on the edge of a cliff. None of this makes for the mindset you want a player to have...and that's on top of the physical challenges he's going to face in an incredibly short time frame.

This isn't a video game. He's a person. To expect him to immediately revert to something resembling the player he was in the face of all of this is wholly unreasonable.

This decision seems to have been 100% his (in conjunction with the doctors). He doesn't have to discuss his health with the giants, especially while not technically under contract. But, if he was Hell bent on playing for them, I think it would have been wise to consult their medical staff as well. The giants are not an organization that typically screws its players. in fact, they are generally generous and fair with injured players and air on the side of caution, with the player's overall health a huge factor.

As for the quick return, this also seems to be coming from his camp. We haven't heard anything from his doctors and we obviously haven't heard anything from the giants as they haven't even been able to see him. But, the amputation is only part of the issue. He also had grafts, which will take a couple of months, if not more to heal to the point where he can start putting pressure on the injured part. There will also have to be plenty of OT and PT just to deal with the amputation alone, and a lot of that will likely have to take place after the grafts heal more. Lastly, we have no clue about any possible nerve damage from the injury or the amputation.

While he may not have been playing a game with the giants to try to become a FA, I think his actions were intended to at least partly deceive the Giants organization. I won't believe any of the spin on this until we hear from medical professionals who have actually seen JPP. Until them, I am not holding my breath that he will be anywhere near ready to start the season, especially given his track record with a poor work ethic.

it will be one of the more dramatic 'show me' efforts in recent memory.

if not, well.

She is one of the few female sports journalists I actually like. It doesn't hurt that she is attractive. She is not the fox that a lot of the younger women getting hired are and she certainly is getting on the older side for females in the sports journalist world. But, her actual journalism and knowledge is better than any of the other females and better than most males. I enjoy listening to what she has to say a lot more than plenty of regulars on the radio and TV. she does have a few annoying phrases she overuses. But, her actual comments and insights are worth putting up with the annoyances. Her written work is also very good.

By far, she was the best person to listen to about the Penn State scandal as it unfolded.

I would wager her info is spot on.

NYG has all the leverage unless they emotionally decide to pull the tender.

JPP version 2011 hasn't been seen since 2011, btw. They're a better team with him, but that doesn't mean pay the man at any cost. There's a decision process and dollar evaluation in place, and now that may need to be adjusted.

I think that evaluation is the best I've read. I like the way you put it...they are a better team with him, which is hard to argue against. But, that doesn't justify overpaying for him or taking an unnecessary cap hit.

I'm not sure we can say they're a better team with him anymore, because we no longer know what he is.

In comment 12363640 JonC said:

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NYG has all the leverage unless they emotionally decide to pull the tender. JPP version 2011 hasn't been seen since 2011, btw. They're a better team with him, but that doesn't mean pay the man at any cost. There's a decision process and dollar evaluation in place, and now that may need to be adjusted.

well said

In comment 12363628 Matt M. said:

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She is one of the few female sports journalists I actually like. It doesn't hurt that she is attractive. She is not the fox that a lot of the younger women getting hired are and she certainly is getting on the older side for females in the sports journalist world. But, her actual journalism and knowledge is better than any of the other females and better than most males. I enjoy listening to what she has to say a lot more than plenty of regulars on the radio and TV. she does have a few annoying phrases she overuses. But, her actual comments and insights are worth putting up with the annoyances. Her written work is also very good. By far, she was the best person to listen to about the Penn State scandal as it unfolded.

Agree. She is a reporter, not a tomato.

She was great with the Penn State thing. And Mike was smart enough to give her free rein as it was breaking.

In comment 12363350 Victor in CT said:

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at least puzzled if not pissed off. Raplh V column - ( New Window )

Read carefully what was said by Ralph and Kim. Kim is almost certainly using someone close to JPP- if not JPP's agent for her info, while Ralph went to the team.

IMO, the two sides are now engaged in a full-on PR war. JPP's handlers now know they bungled this completely. Note how ALL of Kim's material is in JPP's favor- why would the team take those positions when they have not even been able to contact him?

No, IMO, this is JPP's agent floating a negotiating trial balloon in the media. Note specifically how the agent is now putting the onus of the Giants- give him all his money if he just shows up and goes through the motions while recovering and no putting him on NFI. JPP wants his money no matter how much this was his fault is the agent's position- I cannot imagine this is going to go over well at Giants HQ. Oh yes, and of course the agent NEVER had the idea to get the Giants to pull that tender- NEVER crossed his mind. Right...

Ralph is capturing the Giants frustration with JPP. Notice NONE of the trial balloons floated by Kim were grabbed or even addressed. IMO, the Giants are sending JPP and his agent a message- let our doctors look at you and get an assessment and THEN we will talk about how we move forward.

because they have no idea what kind of player he will be after this accident and throwing big money at a player who may never even come close to what he was is not good business, very tough decision to make...

for sure, and that won't play out until the team is afforded a detailed examination of JPP and lots of consults with HSS and other resources.

Back to the Kim Jones' claim (and I'm in 100% agreement with MattM) that JPP "wants to play for the Giants": There has been much commentary on the site about JPP's moronic and immature decisions, his lack of ethics or principles, his sleazy motives, etc. Other than the moronic decision/immaturity aspect of this, the rest is BBI armchair speculation at its finest (and some jaw-dropping posts).

I think there is a better case to be made that if something as physically destructive happened to many of us, the psychological reaction might be as strong or stronger. That is to say, this accident and injury might trigger a strong come to Jesus moment (not in the organized religion context) in which an individual comes face-to-face with some powerful feelings and self-assessments. It might prompt a reassessment of the team, teammates, staff etc. with whom he's spent the past five years, for the better.

This does not necessarily change one iota the re-assessment that the Giants now have to make, but the chemistry and dynamic of their relationship and future negotiations, IF ANY, might be altered. Just saying, and this more speculation for sure, but events like this have a tendency to re-calibrate a life.

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This isn't a video game. He's a person. To expect him to immediately revert to something resembling the player he was in the face of all of this is wholly unreasonable.

I'm not sure we're going to get our $15 million out of this investment. If the season goes south early and JPP returns late in the year then tears it up who is that going to benefit?

The Giants have hold the cards as his client lies in his hospital bed, his right hand mangled.

I don't see him back this year, so for the team to STILL give him the big bucks ! Parker needs to tell JPP - "Do everything they ask and worry about next year, next year"

I hear you, but I'd be pretty surprised if they pulled the tender and punted.

rich, I think you're all over the situation, thank you.

CHP, agreed, I'll simply point to rich's post and say have at it, I think he's on target.

that they're going to agree on the franchise tag?

Unless the relationship is destroyed, I think it's a safer bet that they eventually come together on a show-me 1 year deal that's nowhere near the cost of the franchise tag.

There's absolutely no way his agent can feel confident that he's going to do better on the open market now.

You think any team will give him anything more than a 1 year show me deal at this point?

have jpp donate a portion to firework safety for kids

... I'm going to guess you don't know her. Obviously, certain information is coming from people close to Pierre-Paul - like the assertion that he wants to play for the Giants - and needs no corroboration from the team. But there's no way she would say what the team is or isn't inclined to do, based solely on info from an agent.

So maybe she worded it in a way that qualified the information as unconfirmed.

In comment 12363847 ron mexico said:

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You think any team will give him anything more than a 1 year show me deal at this point?

Someone would pay him maybe a few million plus incentives, but nothing near the tender we have on the table.

A little bit of leaven runs through all the dough. That simply means JPP's attitude not just with this mishap but in the past leads me to believe he's a bit of an ass. Yeah, he's still young and the NFL is a brutal sport so management isn't always to be trusted either but to diss Ronnie Barnes just "smells" bad to me. He has lost goodwill with the fan base here in NYC.

If he were released tomorrow would anyone truly be surprised? I mean, he may miss the beginning of the season and not be able to play with the pads on through camp. How much are we going to get out of him when you consider it is $15 MILLION due! I'm wondering if the money can't be spent better on contracts we have right in front of us.

I mean, lets say TE Robinson and WR Randle have STUNNING camps. Maybe you want to sign them longer-term NOW and use that money here? Just saying....

In comment 12363783 JonC said:

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I hear you, but I'd be pretty surprised if they pulled the tender and punted. rich, I think you're all over the situation, thank you. CHP, agreed, I'll simply point to rich's post and say have at it, I think he's on target.

I would be too. I only see them compounding the error they made when they franchised him.

In comment 12363954 SGMen said:

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In comment 12363847 ron mexico said: Quote: You think any team will give him anything more than a 1 year show me deal at this point? Someone would pay him maybe a few million plus incentives, but nothing near the tender we have on the table. A little bit of leaven runs through all the dough. That simply means JPP's attitude not just with this mishap but in the past leads me to believe he's a bit of an ass. Yeah, he's still young and the NFL is a brutal sport so management isn't always to be trusted either but to diss Ronnie Barnes just "smells" bad to me. He has lost goodwill with the fan base here in NYC. If he were released tomorrow would anyone truly be surprised? I mean, he may miss the beginning of the season and not be able to play with the pads on through camp. How much are we going to get out of him when you consider it is $15 MILLION due! I'm wondering if the money can't be spent better on contracts we have right in front of us. I mean, lets say TE Robinson and WR Randle have STUNNING camps. Maybe you want to sign them longer-term NOW and use that money here? Just saying....

The Giants have NOTHING on the table, just the franchise tag. There was no offer of $60 million made. It was in Ralph Vs column yesterday.

but the framework NYG was trying to get them to agree to was apparently in the $12M AAV range. Extrapolate that and you're looking at a 5/60 framework to build from ...