Former NFL head team physician with 17 yrs of sideline experience. Orthopedic Surgeon. Real time inside look at injuries/medical issues. MondayMorningMD @NFpost
for not experiencing it first hand (no pun intended). It is called objectivity.
And actually this is objectivity backed by scientific research.
As mentioned above, there are people who have lost limbs who still "feel" them there. They will tell you with every sincerity that they feel their arm or leg still attached.
We know that isn't the case, but they often believe it to be true.
Experiencing things first hand doesn't make them true - it just changes one's perspective on it.
Hell, in my interaction with people who have lost limbs, I've seen many go from helplessness and despair to the belief they can do anything simply because they now have a prosthetic in place.
You are incorrect in your statements about strength/size/function and I can prove that with my physical appearance. Argue it all you want, but you aren't correct in you statements.
I have to respond to the rest of this nonsense. The phenomenon of phantom limbs, including itching, pain, etc. absolutely exists, as I can aver from personal experience.
"Experiencing things first hand doesn't make them true." Really? So when I compare the remaining digits on my damaged hand and they are observably larger/stronger than the digits on my undamaged hand, I guess that's just wishful thinking on my part? Fucking unbelievable. Your so-called objectivity is just your refusal to admit that you just really don't know about this at a very deep level.
Just how arrogant does one have to be to reject personal experience?
But ask just how arrogant does one have to be to reject science? I don't have a dog in this fight - I have 10 fingers and 10 toes. Heck, one of my aims is to improve the quality of life of those who have lost digits or limbs.
Don't confuse objectivity with arrogance.
I never reject science and that's just an untrue statement made by a fool. I'll compare what I see and feel and use against all your generalities. I have the PROOF of my claims with me at all times; what is there about this that you don't get? Or arew you calling me a liar? Or perhaps deluded?
I don't doubt what you're saying, but I have two questions for you:
1. Are you an NFL DE?
2. Did your hand get to a point where you could take on an NFL OL the same way you had prior in 2 months?
My statements have been in reaction to those who aver that what I've personally experienced is not and cannot be true. I've made no statement at all concerning JPP specifically or football in general. Frankly, I don't see how you could possibly have come to that conclusion from what I've been writing.
BMac, answer one question. I know that you may have felt the missing limb, after the injury, but was it really there?
Of course not, that's why it's called a phantom. Has anyone here said that, gee< I lost my arm but I don't really believe it's gone? Of course not. Man, reading is fundamental.
BMac, answer one question. I know that you may have felt the missing limb, after the injury, but was it really there?
Of course not, that's why it's called a phantom. Has anyone here said that, gee< I lost my arm but I don't really believe it's gone? Of course not. Man, reading is fundamental.
Just to add, I feel the missing portion (not like the real thing, but it's definite) even now after 50 years.
So when I compare the remaining digits on my damaged hand and they are observably larger/stronger than the digits on my undamaged hand, I guess that's just wishful thinking on my part?
First off, they aren't observably stronger - that is perception. They might be observably larger because when there is a gap or void in the body, the remaining pieces tend to move to fill that spot. when they move, scar tissue is formed which have roughly 2.5 times the density of normal tissue. Thus, there is an appearance of things being bigger (Actually they would be thicker).
From your responses, you make it seem like my experience is bunk and simply because you have lost fingers that you are an expert. I'm not refuting your experiences, I'm refuting your perception. Look, you've even agreed that the idea of there being feelings and phantom limbs exist. why, because it is nerve stimuli transmitting certain things to your brain. Yet the limbs are most definitely not there.
That is my point. I am not saying you think the missing limb is there, but you seem to feel or perceive that it is there. Similar to the idea that you have actually gained increased hearing when you go blind or the instance where you may perceive greater strength in the remaining limbs after such an injury.
That is my point. I am not saying you think the missing limb is there, but you seem to feel or perceive that it is there. Similar to the idea that you have actually gained increased hearing when you go blind or the instance where you may perceive greater strength in the remaining limbs after such an injury.
Yes, I definitely feel the missing part. It isn't because I wish it were still there, or any other reason than that there must be vestigial nerve function that sends the message.
As for increased strength and size, that is observable and a concrete fact.
These aren't "ideas" they are reality. And unless you've gone through same type of thing, you CANNOT really know what I'm talking about. Intellectual understanding just don't and can't even approximate the real thing.
you saying that doctors who routinely perform amputations don't know what they are talking about?
I get the feeling you do.
I also get the feeling you are saying the scientific findings that have shown that senses do not get better or that grip strength and hand strength doesn't actually improves are bunk, too.
Nobody is denying what you feel - but I would most definitely say that what you are experiencing is perception and not reality.
So when I compare the remaining digits on my damaged hand and they are observably larger/stronger than the digits on my undamaged hand, I guess that's just wishful thinking on my part?
First off, they aren't observably stronger - that is perception. They might be observably larger because when there is a gap or void in the body, the remaining pieces tend to move to fill that spot. when they move, scar tissue is formed which have roughly 2.5 times the density of normal tissue. Thus, there is an appearance of things being bigger (Actually they would be thicker).
From your responses, you make it seem like my experience is bunk and simply because you have lost fingers that you are an expert. I'm not refuting your experiences, I'm refuting your perception. Look, you've even agreed that the idea of there being feelings and phantom limbs exist. why, because it is nerve stimuli transmitting certain things to your brain. Yet the limbs are most definitely not there.
Whoever said that the missing pieces p[-arts WERE there. You're now pushing the limits here from my perspective. And yes, you all but baldly state that I'm either a liar or am delusional. You haven't really accepted or understood anything that I've had to say.
To repeat, the fingers have no scar tissue and are both longer than the comparable fingers on the undamaged hand, and are thicker with muscle; this is incontrovertibly, observably, and testably true.
you saying that doctors who routinely perform amputations don't know what they are talking about?
I get the feeling you do.
I also get the feeling you are saying the scientific findings that have shown that senses do not get better or that grip strength and hand strength doesn't actually improves are bunk, too.
Nobody is denying what you feel - but I would most definitely say that what you are experiencing is perception and not reality.
And I say you are very insultingly and ignorantly incorrect.
Are you saying that the very things I use, see, experience every fucking day for 50 years are false, or figments of the imagination? Just how arrogant does one have to be to reject personal experience?
Ok, so how did it get bigger? Did you take HGH or something? I'm just trying to understand how it got BIGGER. I've conceded the idea it of getting stronger. SO how much bigger? 1/8 inch? 1/4 inch? Curious.
you saying that doctors who routinely perform amputations don't know what they are talking about?
I get the feeling you do.
I also get the feeling you are saying the scientific findings that have shown that senses do not get better or that grip strength and hand strength doesn't actually improves are bunk, too.
Nobody is denying what you feel - but I would most definitely say that what you are experiencing is perception and not reality.
And I say you are very insultingly and ignorantly incorrect.
To add, what I'm saying here (if you'll stop putting words in my mouth and attributing false statements to me) is that unless you actually experience something like this, you don't have clue one.
To repeat, the fingers have no scar tissue and are both longer than the comparable fingers on the undamaged hand, and are thicker with muscle; this is incontrovertibly, observably, and testably true
To state that the fingers have no scar tissue is evidence right there that you perceive the wrong things. Digits do not grow to compensate for the loss of other digits. Our bodies simply do not regenerate bone. If fingers are longer, it isn't due to them growing - it is due to shifting. It would be like saying a person with bunions observably has longer, thicker toes.
My cousin lost his pinky (the entire thing), and he didn't experience what you apparently did. Each case is different, of course. Just trying to understand the science behind it...
To add, what I'm saying here (if you'll stop putting words in my mouth and attributing false statements to me) is that unless you actually experience something like this, you don't have clue one.
My response would be that every doctor who has 10 fingers and 10 toes cannot relate to the patients they operate on for amputations. They apparently don't have clue one.
For a person calling me ignorant, I can't even imagine what the inferences are on that quote above.
Are you saying that the very things I use, see, experience every fucking day for 50 years are false, or figments of the imagination? Just how arrogant does one have to be to reject personal experience?
Ok, so how did it get bigger? Did you take HGH or something? I'm just trying to understand how it got BIGGER. I've conceded the idea it of getting stronger. SO how much bigger? 1/8 inch? 1/4 inch? Curious.
Through use. I've never let the condition get in the way of working whatever kinds of jobs were available, including construction, heavy landscaping, tree surgeon, etc. Shit, when you use muscles, they tend to get larger and stronger.
Because there was so much stress on the partial hand, there was obviously a reaction to it that absolutely translates into a stronger hand (for what it is) with larger, thicker fingers. The length is around 1/4" longer than the comparable fingers on the undamaged hand, and are visibly thicker (muscle).
The increase in length may be partly due to stress such as carrying heavy loads with the fingers alone; I'm not certain if this is a reason, but the evidence is there, even if FMiC insists that I'm delusional. Also, according to the medical community, I didn't stop growing physically until I was 25 (go figure).
A hallux abducto valgus deformity, commonly called a bunion, is a deformity characterized by medial deviation of the first metatarsal and lateral deviation of the hallux (big toe), often erroneously described as an enlargement of bone around the joint at the head of the big toe.
The key in there is that it is often erroneously described as an enlargement of bone
We don't grow additional bone naturally. Despite appearances, your fingers cannot have grown longer with new bone. It is not scientifically possible.
I'm not aware of any NFL player who had an injury like this. That doesn't mean it can't be done, but nobody has any idea whether it's possible to play at a high level with this kind of maimed hand, or how long a full recovery will be.
If I understand the nature of this surgery, his hand will actually be narrower/smaller afterward. I can't even imagine how this is going to work. And never mind the skin grafts and nerve damage.
I don't see how he can be worth franchise-tag money at this point. But I don't see how the Giants can withdraw the tender at this point either. The coaching staff is on a short leash; they basically have a year to fix the team, and JPP was their best defensive player in 2014. As Eric said, this could cost the coaching staff their jobs.
To repeat, the fingers have no scar tissue and are both longer than the comparable fingers on the undamaged hand, and are thicker with muscle; this is incontrovertibly, observably, and testably true
To state that the fingers have no scar tissue is evidence right there that you perceive the wrong things. Digits do not grow to compensate for the loss of other digits. Our bodies simply do not regenerate bone. If fingers are longer, it isn't due to them growing - it is due to shifting. It would be like saying a person with bunions observably has longer, thicker toes.
You made the scar tissue claim, sonny, noty me. I was responding to it. You're talking in absolutes, when there are no absolutes in these things. There are so many other factors that weigh in over time that to say that there's only one cause or result, or that something simply cannot happen is pure ignorance.
You quite unjustly accuse me of ignoring science. I accuse you of being an abject slave to it. Even if I shoved my hand in your face, you'd deny the evidence that's right in front of you. That's the very definition of a fool.
To add, what I'm saying here (if you'll stop putting words in my mouth and attributing false statements to me) is that unless you actually experience something like this, you don't have clue one.
My response would be that every doctor who has 10 fingers and 10 toes cannot relate to the patients they operate on for amputations. They apparently don't have clue one.
For a person calling me ignorant, I can't even imagine what the inferences are on that quote above.
SAll you're doping is embarrassing yourself by attributing statements that I've never made. Are you that incapable?
My cousin lost his pinky (the entire thing), and he didn't experience what you apparently did. Each case is different, of course. Just trying to understand the science behind it...
Sure. I said way above that there's almost infinite variety in reactions. Losing a pinky isn't likely to cause what I have, because he still has the real, workable part of his hand. I lost the thumb, index, and forefinger. That doesn't leave much leftover to work with, but one does what one can.
To add, what I'm saying here (if you'll stop putting words in my mouth and attributing false statements to me) is that unless you actually experience something like this, you don't have clue one.
My response would be that every doctor who has 10 fingers and 10 toes cannot relate to the patients they operate on for amputations. They apparently don't have clue one.
For a person calling me ignorant, I can't even imagine what the inferences are on that quote above.
SAll you're doping is embarrassing yourself by attributing statements that I've never made. Are you that incapable?
Lovely typos, but what would you expect?
RE: So you just stretched the reamaining fingures...
That is only my unscientific assumption as one possible cause. If you've read everything on the thread, you'll also see that I didn't stop growing physically until I was 25.
So when I compare the remaining digits on my damaged hand and they are observably larger/stronger than the digits on my undamaged hand, I guess that's just wishful thinking on my part?
First off, they aren't observably stronger - that is perception. They might be observably larger because when there is a gap or void in the body, the remaining pieces tend to move to fill that spot. when they move, scar tissue is formed which have roughly 2.5 times the density of normal tissue. Thus, there is an appearance of things being bigger (Actually they would be thicker).
From your responses, you make it seem like my experience is bunk and simply because you have lost fingers that you are an expert. I'm not refuting your experiences, I'm refuting your perception. Look, you've even agreed that the idea of there being feelings and phantom limbs exist. why, because it is nerve stimuli transmitting certain things to your brain. Yet the limbs are most definitely not there.
Whoever said that the missing pieces p[-arts WERE there. You're now pushing the limits here from my perspective. And yes, you all but baldly state that I'm either a liar or am delusional. You haven't really accepted or understood anything that I've had to say.
To repeat, the fingers have no scar tissue and are both longer than the comparable fingers on the undamaged hand, and are thicker with muscle; this is incontrovertibly, observably, and testably true.
BMac, except that there are NO muscles in the fingers
get bigger + stronger because u use them more. the index function is the body being an adaptogen, adjusting to any situation it finds itself in
there's no guarantee, but the body is a miraculous thing. same phenomenon occurs in plants that lose branches
I'll vouch for this, from personal experience. Remaining digits get larger and considerably stronger.
Larger???? Perhaps stronger, but how can digits actually grow (once puberty ends)?
Are you saying that the very things I use, see, experience every fucking day for 50 years are false, or figments of the imagination? Just how arrogant does one have to be to reject personal experience?
The reliability and usefulness of eyewitness testimony has long been questioned and doubted.
RE: Rational Quote from the Linked Graziuano Article
Quote:
Let's remember that this is a human being, please: I know everybody wants their football team to do well. But Jason Pierre-Paul is a 26-year-old man who just became a father and is dealing with a scary, life-altering trauma. Yes, he did a dumb thing....but no one is as upset about this as Pierre-Paul, and no one else lost a body part over it. He's the one sitting in a hospital bed wondering how this is going to affect his life, his career and his family. That's heavy stuff. These players are people...We lose sight of that too often...it's worth pausing to think about the real-life part of it.
The real life part of it is, if the guy shows up to learn Spags system, he gets $14 mil, and he gets to keep it, even if his play proves that he's not at all as good as he once was. That "real life" situation may compensate for losing a finger.
Eventually the Giants will know whatever can be known by them about JPP's hand post-accident and the odds on this or that possible physical and mental future as a top DE. But probably not for a while. It sounds very uncertain in any scenario whether he'll be able and fit enough to start in game one. What does that put up in the air under the circumstances? His tender (if he still hasn't signed it)? Maybe. Certainly a long-term deal. They'll probably not know this in the next couple of weeks and perhaps not for the next month or so. Then what? JPP healthy was always a kind of big gamble. Now, badly hurt, he's a way bigger one for the Giants -- huge. What can compensate for this kind of uncertainty? Do they toss millions over the transom based on hope that it will all go well? Is he really that valuable?
Again can someone answer this. Why do the Giants have
To reward stupidity with 15 mil contract? Giants should let jpp go. for jpp this is going to take years to adapt to and football is low on priority list
get bigger + stronger because u use them more. the index function is the body being an adaptogen, adjusting to any situation it finds itself in
there's no guarantee, but the body is a miraculous thing. same phenomenon occurs in plants that lose branches
I'll vouch for this, from personal experience. Remaining digits get larger and considerably stronger.
Larger???? Perhaps stronger, but how can digits actually grow (once puberty ends)?
Are you saying that the very things I use, see, experience every fucking day for 50 years are false, or figments of the imagination? Just how arrogant does one have to be to reject personal experience?
The reliability and usefulness of eyewitness testimony has long been questioned and doubted.
Always by those who haven't actually experienced a particular situation. You know, assholes.
Do you have personal experience with damaged parts of your hand?
Thanks. My remarks apply to the interdependence of hands
I would have thought that it was abundantly obvious that I was talking from m personal experience, but yes, I got blown up a long, long time ago and took the hit to the whole left side of my body, but the left hand is basically a strip steak with two fingers. Not as tasty, however!
Even if I shoved my hand in your face, you'd deny the evidence that's right in front of you. That's the very definition of a fool.
I wouldn't deny the evidence, I'd explain it. Not in Supernatural terms, either.
It is so foolish that this rabbit hole started because Thomas insinuated that JPP's remaining hand parts will likely be stronger.
Well, you are an asshiole, and have proved yourself as such many times. This is just one more. Hopefully, I'll meet you one day and introduce you to my delusion. You won't enjoy it, but you will learn something.
So when I compare the remaining digits on my damaged hand and they are observably larger/stronger than the digits on my undamaged hand, I guess that's just wishful thinking on my part?
First off, they aren't observably stronger - that is perception. They might be observably larger because when there is a gap or void in the body, the remaining pieces tend to move to fill that spot. when they move, scar tissue is formed which have roughly 2.5 times the density of normal tissue. Thus, there is an appearance of things being bigger (Actually they would be thicker).
From your responses, you make it seem like my experience is bunk and simply because you have lost fingers that you are an expert. I'm not refuting your experiences, I'm refuting your perception. Look, you've even agreed that the idea of there being feelings and phantom limbs exist. why, because it is nerve stimuli transmitting certain things to your brain. Yet the limbs are most definitely not there.
Whoever said that the missing pieces p[-arts WERE there. You're now pushing the limits here from my perspective. And yes, you all but baldly state that I'm either a liar or am delusional. You haven't really accepted or understood anything that I've had to say.
To repeat, the fingers have no scar tissue and are both longer than the comparable fingers on the undamaged hand, and are thicker with muscle; this is incontrovertibly, observably, and testably true.
BMac, except that there are NO muscles in the fingers
Yeah, I know that, but again, ad nauseum, I can demonstrate conclusively that the fingers remaining on the damaged hand are larger, longer, and stronger than the similar digits on the un damaged hand.
I fail to understand why this is unable to be countenanced here. I mean really, fuck the bunch of you. I've never been particularly sensitive about it, but the level of vitriol and dismissal of a fucking demonstrable, observable thing on here are rather unbelievable.
Here's the challenge. All the doubters and know-it-alls on here are hereby challenged, an one thousand dollars a throw, to disprove my claims.
At no point did I dispute the condition of your fingers. I only pointed out that if they did indeed get thicker, it wasn't due to increased muscle mass as you said, because there are no muscles in the fingers. That's all, nothing more.
get bigger + stronger because u use them more. the index function is the body being an adaptogen, adjusting to any situation it finds itself in
there's no guarantee, but the body is a miraculous thing. same phenomenon occurs in plants that lose branches
I'll vouch for this, from personal experience. Remaining digits get larger and considerably stronger.
Larger???? Perhaps stronger, but how can digits actually grow (once puberty ends)?
Are you saying that the very things I use, see, experience every fucking day for 50 years are false, or figments of the imagination? Just how arrogant does one have to be to reject personal experience?
The reliability and usefulness of eyewitness testimony has long been questioned and doubted.
Always by those who haven't actually experienced a particular situation. You know, assholes.
Well, you are an asshiole, and have proved yourself as such many times. This is just one more. Hopefully, I'll meet you one day and introduce you to my delusion. You won't enjoy it, but you will learn something.
I've already learned something in this thread. That somebody can live with a condition for 50 years and still not understand it.
I have doubt you believe that your fingers grew bigger and stronger. All I'm saying is that it is scientifically impossible to do so.
Nothing I've said in this thread is MY opinion. It is the opinion of medical and scientific professionals. So, I guess there are a bunch of assholes out there who need you to stick your hand in their faces and threaten.
Not that it affects this particular situation, but here's some additional Bio on Chao.
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for not experiencing it first hand (no pun intended). It is called objectivity.
And actually this is objectivity backed by scientific research.
As mentioned above, there are people who have lost limbs who still "feel" them there. They will tell you with every sincerity that they feel their arm or leg still attached.
We know that isn't the case, but they often believe it to be true.
Experiencing things first hand doesn't make them true - it just changes one's perspective on it.
Hell, in my interaction with people who have lost limbs, I've seen many go from helplessness and despair to the belief they can do anything simply because they now have a prosthetic in place.
You are incorrect in your statements about strength/size/function and I can prove that with my physical appearance. Argue it all you want, but you aren't correct in you statements.
I have to respond to the rest of this nonsense. The phenomenon of phantom limbs, including itching, pain, etc. absolutely exists, as I can aver from personal experience.
"Experiencing things first hand doesn't make them true." Really? So when I compare the remaining digits on my damaged hand and they are observably larger/stronger than the digits on my undamaged hand, I guess that's just wishful thinking on my part? Fucking unbelievable. Your so-called objectivity is just your refusal to admit that you just really don't know about this at a very deep level.
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Just how arrogant does one have to be to reject personal experience?
But ask just how arrogant does one have to be to reject science? I don't have a dog in this fight - I have 10 fingers and 10 toes. Heck, one of my aims is to improve the quality of life of those who have lost digits or limbs.
Don't confuse objectivity with arrogance.
I never reject science and that's just an untrue statement made by a fool. I'll compare what I see and feel and use against all your generalities. I have the PROOF of my claims with me at all times; what is there about this that you don't get? Or arew you calling me a liar? Or perhaps deluded?
1. Are you an NFL DE?
2. Did your hand get to a point where you could take on an NFL OL the same way you had prior in 2 months?
My statements have been in reaction to those who aver that what I've personally experienced is not and cannot be true. I've made no statement at all concerning JPP specifically or football in general. Frankly, I don't see how you could possibly have come to that conclusion from what I've been writing.
Of course not, that's why it's called a phantom. Has anyone here said that, gee< I lost my arm but I don't really believe it's gone? Of course not. Man, reading is fundamental.
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BMac, answer one question. I know that you may have felt the missing limb, after the injury, but was it really there?
Of course not, that's why it's called a phantom. Has anyone here said that, gee< I lost my arm but I don't really believe it's gone? Of course not. Man, reading is fundamental.
Just to add, I feel the missing portion (not like the real thing, but it's definite) even now after 50 years.
First off, they aren't observably stronger - that is perception. They might be observably larger because when there is a gap or void in the body, the remaining pieces tend to move to fill that spot. when they move, scar tissue is formed which have roughly 2.5 times the density of normal tissue. Thus, there is an appearance of things being bigger (Actually they would be thicker).
From your responses, you make it seem like my experience is bunk and simply because you have lost fingers that you are an expert. I'm not refuting your experiences, I'm refuting your perception. Look, you've even agreed that the idea of there being feelings and phantom limbs exist. why, because it is nerve stimuli transmitting certain things to your brain. Yet the limbs are most definitely not there.
Yes, I definitely feel the missing part. It isn't because I wish it were still there, or any other reason than that there must be vestigial nerve function that sends the message.
As for increased strength and size, that is observable and a concrete fact.
These aren't "ideas" they are reality. And unless you've gone through same type of thing, you CANNOT really know what I'm talking about. Intellectual understanding just don't and can't even approximate the real thing.
I get the feeling you do.
I also get the feeling you are saying the scientific findings that have shown that senses do not get better or that grip strength and hand strength doesn't actually improves are bunk, too.
Nobody is denying what you feel - but I would most definitely say that what you are experiencing is perception and not reality.
Quote:
So when I compare the remaining digits on my damaged hand and they are observably larger/stronger than the digits on my undamaged hand, I guess that's just wishful thinking on my part?
First off, they aren't observably stronger - that is perception. They might be observably larger because when there is a gap or void in the body, the remaining pieces tend to move to fill that spot. when they move, scar tissue is formed which have roughly 2.5 times the density of normal tissue. Thus, there is an appearance of things being bigger (Actually they would be thicker).
From your responses, you make it seem like my experience is bunk and simply because you have lost fingers that you are an expert. I'm not refuting your experiences, I'm refuting your perception. Look, you've even agreed that the idea of there being feelings and phantom limbs exist. why, because it is nerve stimuli transmitting certain things to your brain. Yet the limbs are most definitely not there.
Whoever said that the missing pieces p[-arts WERE there. You're now pushing the limits here from my perspective. And yes, you all but baldly state that I'm either a liar or am delusional. You haven't really accepted or understood anything that I've had to say.
To repeat, the fingers have no scar tissue and are both longer than the comparable fingers on the undamaged hand, and are thicker with muscle; this is incontrovertibly, observably, and testably true.
Better to challenge FMiC to a finger curl competition.
I get the feeling you do.
I also get the feeling you are saying the scientific findings that have shown that senses do not get better or that grip strength and hand strength doesn't actually improves are bunk, too.
Nobody is denying what you feel - but I would most definitely say that what you are experiencing is perception and not reality.
And I say you are very insultingly and ignorantly incorrect.
Are you saying that the very things I use, see, experience every fucking day for 50 years are false, or figments of the imagination? Just how arrogant does one have to be to reject personal experience?
Ok, so how did it get bigger? Did you take HGH or something? I'm just trying to understand how it got BIGGER. I've conceded the idea it of getting stronger. SO how much bigger? 1/8 inch? 1/4 inch? Curious.
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you saying that doctors who routinely perform amputations don't know what they are talking about?
I get the feeling you do.
I also get the feeling you are saying the scientific findings that have shown that senses do not get better or that grip strength and hand strength doesn't actually improves are bunk, too.
Nobody is denying what you feel - but I would most definitely say that what you are experiencing is perception and not reality.
And I say you are very insultingly and ignorantly incorrect.
To add, what I'm saying here (if you'll stop putting words in my mouth and attributing false statements to me) is that unless you actually experience something like this, you don't have clue one.
To state that the fingers have no scar tissue is evidence right there that you perceive the wrong things. Digits do not grow to compensate for the loss of other digits. Our bodies simply do not regenerate bone. If fingers are longer, it isn't due to them growing - it is due to shifting. It would be like saying a person with bunions observably has longer, thicker toes.
My response would be that every doctor who has 10 fingers and 10 toes cannot relate to the patients they operate on for amputations. They apparently don't have clue one.
For a person calling me ignorant, I can't even imagine what the inferences are on that quote above.
Quote:
Are you saying that the very things I use, see, experience every fucking day for 50 years are false, or figments of the imagination? Just how arrogant does one have to be to reject personal experience?
Ok, so how did it get bigger? Did you take HGH or something? I'm just trying to understand how it got BIGGER. I've conceded the idea it of getting stronger. SO how much bigger? 1/8 inch? 1/4 inch? Curious.
Through use. I've never let the condition get in the way of working whatever kinds of jobs were available, including construction, heavy landscaping, tree surgeon, etc. Shit, when you use muscles, they tend to get larger and stronger.
Because there was so much stress on the partial hand, there was obviously a reaction to it that absolutely translates into a stronger hand (for what it is) with larger, thicker fingers. The length is around 1/4" longer than the comparable fingers on the undamaged hand, and are visibly thicker (muscle).
The increase in length may be partly due to stress such as carrying heavy loads with the fingers alone; I'm not certain if this is a reason, but the evidence is there, even if FMiC insists that I'm delusional. Also, according to the medical community, I didn't stop growing physically until I was 25 (go figure).
The key in there is that it is often erroneously described as an enlargement of bone
We don't grow additional bone naturally. Despite appearances, your fingers cannot have grown longer with new bone. It is not scientifically possible.
If I understand the nature of this surgery, his hand will actually be narrower/smaller afterward. I can't even imagine how this is going to work. And never mind the skin grafts and nerve damage.
I don't see how he can be worth franchise-tag money at this point. But I don't see how the Giants can withdraw the tender at this point either. The coaching staff is on a short leash; they basically have a year to fix the team, and JPP was their best defensive player in 2014. As Eric said, this could cost the coaching staff their jobs.
It's a big mess.
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To repeat, the fingers have no scar tissue and are both longer than the comparable fingers on the undamaged hand, and are thicker with muscle; this is incontrovertibly, observably, and testably true
To state that the fingers have no scar tissue is evidence right there that you perceive the wrong things. Digits do not grow to compensate for the loss of other digits. Our bodies simply do not regenerate bone. If fingers are longer, it isn't due to them growing - it is due to shifting. It would be like saying a person with bunions observably has longer, thicker toes.
You made the scar tissue claim, sonny, noty me. I was responding to it. You're talking in absolutes, when there are no absolutes in these things. There are so many other factors that weigh in over time that to say that there's only one cause or result, or that something simply cannot happen is pure ignorance.
You quite unjustly accuse me of ignoring science. I accuse you of being an abject slave to it. Even if I shoved my hand in your face, you'd deny the evidence that's right in front of you. That's the very definition of a fool.
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To add, what I'm saying here (if you'll stop putting words in my mouth and attributing false statements to me) is that unless you actually experience something like this, you don't have clue one.
My response would be that every doctor who has 10 fingers and 10 toes cannot relate to the patients they operate on for amputations. They apparently don't have clue one.
For a person calling me ignorant, I can't even imagine what the inferences are on that quote above.
SAll you're doping is embarrassing yourself by attributing statements that I've never made. Are you that incapable?
Sure. I said way above that there's almost infinite variety in reactions. Losing a pinky isn't likely to cause what I have, because he still has the real, workable part of his hand. I lost the thumb, index, and forefinger. That doesn't leave much leftover to work with, but one does what one can.
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To add, what I'm saying here (if you'll stop putting words in my mouth and attributing false statements to me) is that unless you actually experience something like this, you don't have clue one.
My response would be that every doctor who has 10 fingers and 10 toes cannot relate to the patients they operate on for amputations. They apparently don't have clue one.
For a person calling me ignorant, I can't even imagine what the inferences are on that quote above.
SAll you're doping is embarrassing yourself by attributing statements that I've never made. Are you that incapable?
Lovely typos, but what would you expect?
That is only my unscientific assumption as one possible cause. If you've read everything on the thread, you'll also see that I didn't stop growing physically until I was 25.
Do you have personal experience with damaged parts of your hand?
Thanks. My remarks apply to the interdependence of hands
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So when I compare the remaining digits on my damaged hand and they are observably larger/stronger than the digits on my undamaged hand, I guess that's just wishful thinking on my part?
First off, they aren't observably stronger - that is perception. They might be observably larger because when there is a gap or void in the body, the remaining pieces tend to move to fill that spot. when they move, scar tissue is formed which have roughly 2.5 times the density of normal tissue. Thus, there is an appearance of things being bigger (Actually they would be thicker).
From your responses, you make it seem like my experience is bunk and simply because you have lost fingers that you are an expert. I'm not refuting your experiences, I'm refuting your perception. Look, you've even agreed that the idea of there being feelings and phantom limbs exist. why, because it is nerve stimuli transmitting certain things to your brain. Yet the limbs are most definitely not there.
Whoever said that the missing pieces p[-arts WERE there. You're now pushing the limits here from my perspective. And yes, you all but baldly state that I'm either a liar or am delusional. You haven't really accepted or understood anything that I've had to say.
To repeat, the fingers have no scar tissue and are both longer than the comparable fingers on the undamaged hand, and are thicker with muscle; this is incontrovertibly, observably, and testably true.
BMac, except that there are NO muscles in the fingers
I wouldn't deny the evidence, I'd explain it. Not in Supernatural terms, either.
It is so foolish that this rabbit hole started because Thomas insinuated that JPP's remaining hand parts will likely be stronger.
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In comment 12364231 BMac said:
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In comment 12363911 area junc said:
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get bigger + stronger because u use them more. the index function is the body being an adaptogen, adjusting to any situation it finds itself in
there's no guarantee, but the body is a miraculous thing. same phenomenon occurs in plants that lose branches
I'll vouch for this, from personal experience. Remaining digits get larger and considerably stronger.
Larger???? Perhaps stronger, but how can digits actually grow (once puberty ends)?
Are you saying that the very things I use, see, experience every fucking day for 50 years are false, or figments of the imagination? Just how arrogant does one have to be to reject personal experience?
The reliability and usefulness of eyewitness testimony has long been questioned and doubted.
Let's remember that this is a human being, please: I know everybody wants their football team to do well. But Jason Pierre-Paul is a 26-year-old man who just became a father and is dealing with a scary, life-altering trauma. Yes, he did a dumb thing....but no one is as upset about this as Pierre-Paul, and no one else lost a body part over it. He's the one sitting in a hospital bed wondering how this is going to affect his life, his career and his family. That's heavy stuff. These players are people...We lose sight of that too often...it's worth pausing to think about the real-life part of it.
now I wish I'd paid more attention when I slashed the end of my finger open. would have been nice to take a closer look.
now I wish I'd paid more attention when I slashed the end of my finger open. would have been nice to take a closer look.
LOL! I suspect most people would find that hard to believe.
now I wish I'd paid more attention when I slashed the end of my finger open. would have been nice to take a closer look.
If you think about it, there's no way that the amount of muscle that could fit in your fingers could account for the gripping power you have.
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In comment 12364306 speedywheels said:
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In comment 12364231 BMac said:
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In comment 12363911 area junc said:
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get bigger + stronger because u use them more. the index function is the body being an adaptogen, adjusting to any situation it finds itself in
there's no guarantee, but the body is a miraculous thing. same phenomenon occurs in plants that lose branches
I'll vouch for this, from personal experience. Remaining digits get larger and considerably stronger.
Larger???? Perhaps stronger, but how can digits actually grow (once puberty ends)?
Are you saying that the very things I use, see, experience every fucking day for 50 years are false, or figments of the imagination? Just how arrogant does one have to be to reject personal experience?
The reliability and usefulness of eyewitness testimony has long been questioned and doubted.
Always by those who haven't actually experienced a particular situation. You know, assholes.
Do you have personal experience with damaged parts of your hand?
Thanks. My remarks apply to the interdependence of hands
I would have thought that it was abundantly obvious that I was talking from m personal experience, but yes, I got blown up a long, long time ago and took the hit to the whole left side of my body, but the left hand is basically a strip steak with two fingers. Not as tasty, however!
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Even if I shoved my hand in your face, you'd deny the evidence that's right in front of you. That's the very definition of a fool.
I wouldn't deny the evidence, I'd explain it. Not in Supernatural terms, either.
It is so foolish that this rabbit hole started because Thomas insinuated that JPP's remaining hand parts will likely be stronger.
Well, you are an asshiole, and have proved yourself as such many times. This is just one more. Hopefully, I'll meet you one day and introduce you to my delusion. You won't enjoy it, but you will learn something.
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In comment 12364567 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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So when I compare the remaining digits on my damaged hand and they are observably larger/stronger than the digits on my undamaged hand, I guess that's just wishful thinking on my part?
First off, they aren't observably stronger - that is perception. They might be observably larger because when there is a gap or void in the body, the remaining pieces tend to move to fill that spot. when they move, scar tissue is formed which have roughly 2.5 times the density of normal tissue. Thus, there is an appearance of things being bigger (Actually they would be thicker).
From your responses, you make it seem like my experience is bunk and simply because you have lost fingers that you are an expert. I'm not refuting your experiences, I'm refuting your perception. Look, you've even agreed that the idea of there being feelings and phantom limbs exist. why, because it is nerve stimuli transmitting certain things to your brain. Yet the limbs are most definitely not there.
Whoever said that the missing pieces p[-arts WERE there. You're now pushing the limits here from my perspective. And yes, you all but baldly state that I'm either a liar or am delusional. You haven't really accepted or understood anything that I've had to say.
To repeat, the fingers have no scar tissue and are both longer than the comparable fingers on the undamaged hand, and are thicker with muscle; this is incontrovertibly, observably, and testably true.
BMac, except that there are NO muscles in the fingers
Yeah, I know that, but again, ad nauseum, I can demonstrate conclusively that the fingers remaining on the damaged hand are larger, longer, and stronger than the similar digits on the un damaged hand.
I fail to understand why this is unable to be countenanced here. I mean really, fuck the bunch of you. I've never been particularly sensitive about it, but the level of vitriol and dismissal of a fucking demonstrable, observable thing on here are rather unbelievable.
Here's the challenge. All the doubters and know-it-alls on here are hereby challenged, an one thousand dollars a throw, to disprove my claims.
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In comment 12364518 BMac said:
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In comment 12364306 speedywheels said:
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In comment 12364231 BMac said:
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In comment 12363911 area junc said:
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get bigger + stronger because u use them more. the index function is the body being an adaptogen, adjusting to any situation it finds itself in
there's no guarantee, but the body is a miraculous thing. same phenomenon occurs in plants that lose branches
I'll vouch for this, from personal experience. Remaining digits get larger and considerably stronger.
Larger???? Perhaps stronger, but how can digits actually grow (once puberty ends)?
Are you saying that the very things I use, see, experience every fucking day for 50 years are false, or figments of the imagination? Just how arrogant does one have to be to reject personal experience?
The reliability and usefulness of eyewitness testimony has long been questioned and doubted.
Always by those who haven't actually experienced a particular situation. You know, assholes.
Yup, what an asshole! - ( New Window )
I've already learned something in this thread. That somebody can live with a condition for 50 years and still not understand it.
I have doubt you believe that your fingers grew bigger and stronger. All I'm saying is that it is scientifically impossible to do so.
Nothing I've said in this thread is MY opinion. It is the opinion of medical and scientific professionals. So, I guess there are a bunch of assholes out there who need you to stick your hand in their faces and threaten.