OK...so we're a little over 9 weeks to opening night...

In comment 12365085 OBJ_AllDay said:

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In comment 12365079 Eric from BBI said: Quote: Assuming Damontre Moore is our new RDE, teams in the NFC East are going to run to the left against us all year. Don't underestimate how good JPP was in run defense (even though our overall run defense was bad last year). I'd rather have him on the left side personally.

Why would you want Moore on the left side?

Wag the Dog

the Giants draft someone in 2016, best case scenario is:

Moore, Wynn, Odighizuwa, Ayers, and Selvie kick some ass.

Likely? Probably not. But it what a tremendous opportunity for all five.

Just going hope for competitive games and the young players developing for down the line.

issue with JPP is his mental reaction to all of this. This is some really serious %@#!

They'll honor the tender and agree to pay a percentage of the money in exchange for him coming to camp and getting his classroom stuff and mental reps(such as they are) in. This is allowed according to NFI rules.

I think he'll end up missing 3 to 6 regular season games.

In comment 12365087 Eric from BBI said:

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Moore on the left side is even worse. That's the strong side of the offense.

I know but who do you think would be a better fit out of this group? The coaches seemed to be liking what they saw from him for the most part in the practice reports last year. Maybe he's ready to take that next step. I just don't have much faith in the DE group and this is what year 3 from him?

In comment 12365093 Eric from BBI said:

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the Giants draft someone in 2016, best case scenario is: Moore, Wynn, Odighizuwa, Ayers, and Selvie kick some ass. Likely? Probably not. But it what a tremendous opportunity for all five.

There you to Eric, look at the bright side. It is a tremendous opportunity for these guys. They also have a lot to prove. Ayers played well last year, imo, but he got hurt. Selvie could have been fighting for a spot on the roster and now he can fight for a starting spot. It is no secret that the Giants were highon Wynn. Well, it is now or never. He may never get a better opportunity. Odi will bring it but it may take some time for him. And then we get to Moore. I love this kid. He has shown flashed up to this point but with the positives have been negatives. I feel that Spags is a better communicator so this could pay huge dividends. I really feel this group will rise to the occasion. But that is just me. I loved Moore in the draft. I loved Odi in the draft. I wanted to bring Selvie in as depth. We got all of them. These kids all have talent. It is time to tap into it.

We will see a lot of safety in the box this year. They seem to like collins range and prince and drc should be trusted in a lot more man coverage than we saw out of fewells d

Any of the other four are a better fit than Moore who I see strictly as a RDE.

physically dominate an opposing offensive lineman... the problem is, he appears (likely) to have have lost some of that physical advantage. Sure, it was entertaining to see him do a couple dozen back flips (let's face it, that was his initial appeal) and sack a few QBs while at South Florida... he was a raw, physical specimen. We'd all love to see him return to that, but it is not likely to happen. It's a sham e, but it helps explain why Jerry drafts guys like Will Beatty who may not be physically dominant, but who provide add a more stable, mature presence.

I think you're right about JPP's prospects this year but not about the Giants overall. JPP's numbers were somewhat padded by a strong 2nd half of 2014 when the Giants weren't playing for much, and 2012 and 2013 were far from inspiring. So be honest, unlike many, I haven't been "counting on" much from him as a fan anyway (though I did believe he could still be a difference maker).

For my money, our defense was and is more about Beason and Hankins making this team ferocious against the run again. I trust Spagnuolo to generate pressure on the QB, but if we can stop the run? That is absolutely key... and we have the guys to make that happen.

I mean it when I say I was more confident in Moore's ability to rush the passer than JPP. It sounds crazy but I really can't recall many meaningful contributions from Pierre-Paul in 4 seasons. Why would this year have magically been any different? The fact that there are reports that the index finger isn't especially important for his craft and that he could be back very early in the season is good enough for me right now.

I disagree about the Giants not being a playoff team. The wide receiver core has the potential to be as good as any in the league. Usually the word "potential" is reserved for talk of up-and-comers, but I'm using it in a much more reliable sense. Our offense has a proven core of contributors across almost all skill positions, and the offense line has an opportunity to improve.

Most importantly, Eli Manning has the potential to have the best season of any in his entire career. Knowing that, how can you not consider this team a serious playoff contender?

Unfortunately, I think he's out of passes for the team underperforming. It's win or bust for him this season, no matter what. Which is a shame, because this is really the year he could use one.

that our team, already very questionable in the trenches (if trying to address the issues recently) will at the very least start 2015 without their best OL and DL from 2014.

For a half season at least.

This is not a playoff team this year, and it's not on TC or Reese really. Just more freakish bad luck.

we'll be picking in the top half of the 2015 draft, again!

I don't think Moore sees the field on run downs. He should be the primary 3rd down specialist.

I'd have Wynn, Jenkins, Odi and Selvie competing for snaps on 1st down and Moore, Ayers, Kennard and Odi competing for snaps on 3rd down.

Sure there are going to be some second and 7, 3rd and 4 situations where you're in no man's land but Spags is not gonna send Moore out on 1st down unless there is a specific plan to play poker (ie bring Collins into the box last minute, blitz the nickel, rush Kennard into the weakside of the backfield, slant Hankins and Ellis etc).

I think we can win without JPP if Spags upgrades our D as much as we hope. Coaching is a huge deal in the NFL. Just look at Dallas after their DC change.

In comment 12365056 Eric from BBI said:

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No expert...havent' a clue...but I think we're in denial if we think he's coming back to anywhere like 2011 or even 2014 JPP.

^^This^^

On the human level, I feel bad for the kid. He's 26 & has to go through the rest of his life with 9 fingers.

On the football side, it's a huge blow. I know some undervalue him, but he's one of our best defensive players & I'm sure Spags was counting on him big time. Now, who knows? I'm sure he's going to see the field sometime this year, but when? And how effective will he be?

The offense is going to have to carry us in '15. Simple as that.

until MAYBE November. MAYBE.
At that point, the season is probably lost.
So, why keep him? Not only does he need to recover from a serious, LIFE CHANGING, injury, he has to learn a new defense. He missed the ENTIRE off-season study session on the new defense. He needs to be at camp to learn the defense. If he doesn't show up on day 1, the Giants just need to cut him loose.

I don't see how 2015 is anything but a wasted year for him.

I'd imagine now is the time you start rounding into game shape after spending the last few months modifying your body - rather cutting fat or putting on muscle (merely a guess, someone like B who has prepared for a season would have a better opinion). He won't be able to lift weights for at least, best case, a month. He'll be so far behind.

I, along with others, questioned the value of paying JPP a large contract to begin with, thinking the dollars were better spent across the defense. Now they have an opportunity to manage the cap in a manner that they can add significant talent next off-season, and hopefully accelerate cap hits for Prince and Eli this year (if possible).

Rescind the tag and offer JPP a small deal if you're so incline. You look supportive to a player going through a tough time and do what's best for the team.

when you have to rely on JPP for the mental side of things.

I had low expectations for JPP anyway so I don't think this will be an enormous loss on the field. I question whether or not DE is as crucial a position as we've come to know it to be anymore.

It's an offensive game now, and that's where our quality lies. On the other side it's going to be on Spags to come up with something that just slows opponents down enough so we can win games 28-24.

I've still got us at 10-6.

I expect zero from him now. If he plays and is great it will be like a surprise 7th rounder turning into a Pro Bowler.

If the Giants play nice guys, there are going to be a lot of empty seats in December and a whole lot of Jet fans in the game against them this year. Time to think first for the team's sake, cut JPP and use the money in another way or there are gonna be a lot of ANGRY GIANT FANS! TC must be pissed, his job is on the line.....NO MORE PASSES, SHIT HAPPENS, IT'S TIME TO BE A PLAYOFF TEAM AGAIN!

Giants near him. He doesn't want them to see the wound or speak to his doctors. All of Eric's points are valid; no camp, no OTAs, no classroom work. He isn't very bright as it is and he didn't play in Spags D before. There is no way he will be in even decent physical condition on top of it.

Mrs. Eric is right.

Gary Myers column today was spot on, proving that even a stopped watch is right twice a day.


Jason Pierre-Paul continues to make poor decisions and Giants should cut ties with him - ( New Window )

especially under Spags..If you want to hold his Rams years against him, fine, but he managed ALL units with input in all phases, he was NOT SOLELY the DC..There is a big difference, imv..

New Orleans was a mess and their Secondary was crippled paper..Health was not his best friend there, not to mention the chaos..But even if you say he was crap in NO, it's only been ONE year of DC-ing for him since he left in 2009..

Many here are going to be surprised if, a big if, we don't revisit the last two record setting injury years..Oh wait, where's my Kool-Aid? :)

In comment 12365231 Victor in CT said:

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Gary Myers column today was spot on, proving that even a stopped watch is right twice a day. Jason Pierre-Paul continues to make poor decisions and Giants should cut ties with him - ( New Window )

Kind of surprised that that article mentioned nothing of the spinal surgery that he had to have while calling him an underachiever.

In comment 12365243 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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In comment 12365231 Victor in CT said: Quote: Gary Myers column today was spot on, proving that even a stopped watch is right twice a day. Jason Pierre-Paul continues to make poor decisions and Giants should cut ties with him - ( New Window ) Kind of surprised that that article mentioned nothing of the spinal surgery that he had to have while calling him an underachiever.

Typical of Myers so it didn't surprise me.

Myers and Serby are Jets fans so their take is no f'ed up surprise.

What really concerns me is - assuming his knuckle was removed - the "narrowing" of his hand. It's not just grabbing an OL that important to a DE, it's pushing and punching with the whole hand - and with a smaller hand surface it's going to be so much harder to move an OL with that hand.

When you look at pics of hands that have had this surgery they just look so narrow and weak. It's truly hard to imagine JPP being an impact player going forward.

Rescind the offer. Extend Prince. I know thats a gamble given Prince's injury history. I'd rather gamble on a person like Prince than JPP

unfortunately I agree with you on this one -- there is no way JPP is physically or mentally ready to start the season -- I too don't see him ready to be effective at the very least around the same time as Will Beatty

The real problem is that everyone in the JPP camp are all in shock and really not facing the reality of the situation - and there are some way stupid and immature comments that have come out of them - JPP is also not the brightest lamp in the forest - and I think his handlers are questionable as well.

The guy was in fact seriously injured. He can't possible be physically ready in 9 weeks -- and without team reps ready to play either -- Strahan is a lot smarter than JPP - and came in physically ready and he had some growing pains after missing camp and having a new defensive coordinator (Spags) and he had no injury or training issues.

take a look at it. After you finally determine what is what in that mangled mess of a hand, try to picture him playing well by the time we're eating our Thanksgiving turkey.

It's lunacy.

In comment 12365062 Eric from BBI said:

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My wife supports the Giants and puts up with my passion. For years she's seen me depressed after one of our players gets really hurt. Wife: "What's wrong?" Me: "I'm upset about Cruz. (or insert any name here)" Wife: "He'll be OK." Fast forward to this week. Wife: "What's wrong?" Me: "I'm upset about JPP. The dumbass wrecked his hand. They just amputated his finger." Wife: "He's done."

whatever angle or perspective you put on this....the fact is either way ...his career (with the giants) is already done or is very close to the end. He may be an athletic freak but he is not LT. I don't see any return on investment from the Giants perspective. Do you??? If so please enlighten me. A guy who should be headed for 2 or 3 of the best years as a player literally gave it away because he is an idiot. Listen to your wife!!!

for another team.

In comment 12365065 Eric from BBI said:

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Seems like a one-year, $15 million rental on damaged goods. Giants are going to be interesting to watch, but they are not a playoff team. This is not on Coughlin. He should get a pass.

Eric, I fully agree with you, JPP is not contributing this year. Paying $15M on a bet on someone with his injury is madness.

I agree that it was always a question whether the Giants were going to be a playoff team or not.

I respectively disagree though that an injury to JPP gives TC or any other coach a pass before training camp has even started. One guy does not make the team. No excuses already for TC, that is ridiculous.

from JPP than some others here, certainly more than Terps, but the more I think about the whole situation now, I'm beginning to agree with Eric (and Terps) about cutting him loose. Ideally he and the team would re-negotiate a 1 year show me contract at a greatly reduced price. That would be in line with the Giants not wanting to abandon one of their players, and also help out JPP. He could test the market and if nothing better turned up, take the Giants offer. The Giants would gain if somehow JPP does, at some point in the season, perform at a high level. Otherwise, I'm not really that upset anymore if it comes to a parting of the ways

John Mara is fuming about now over being, essentially, blown off. He just might pull the tag if this BS from JPP's camp continues.

the team may take advantage of the opportunity in front of them.

Also we all wanted Spags back ... this is also an opportunity for him to show and prove his prowess in coaching, strategies and use of personnel.

I am a NYG fan...and I choose to believe and be optimistic.

both will miss at least the first half of the season and we haven't gotten to training camp yet. Both non football injuries. That's some crappy luck. Coaches are going to have to earn their money this year and get young guys ready to play at a high level. Hasn't exactly been their strength. Flowers replacing Beatty, Collins replacing Rolle, no one to replace JPP. How is this team improved from 6 wins last year? 5 of the Giants 6 wins were against teams with 6 wins or less. With Eli not signed past 2015 we could be looking at the end of an era very quickly.

In comment 12365440 OC2.0 said:

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John Mara is fuming about now over being, essentially, blown off. He just might pull the tag if this BS from JPP's camp continues.

Blown off? :-)

In comment 12365471 Victor in CT said:

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In comment 12365440 OC2.0 said: Quote: John Mara is fuming about now over being, essentially, blown off. He just might pull the tag if this BS from JPP's camp continues. Blown off? :-)

Lol, wish I could take credit for that being intentional.

In comment 12365079 Eric from BBI said:

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Assuming Damontre Moore is our new RDE, teams in the NFC East are going to run to the left against us all year. Don't underestimate how good JPP was in run defense (even though our overall run defense was bad last year).

Yes and no. For every play he made in the backfield, he gave up the edge on another. The most glaring example was the Redskins running the same play about a dozen times right at him. But, it was a few times a game.

It will hurt. But, I don't expect Moore to be the main guy out there. I expect a lot of rotation among all 6 DEs at both spots. I also think our interior run defense will be better and we have better LBs on the edge.

In comment 12365448 arniefez said:

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both will miss at least the first half of the season and we haven't gotten to training camp yet. Both non football injuries. That's some crappy luck. Coaches are going to have to earn their money this year and get young guys ready to play at a high level. Hasn't exactly been their strength. Flowers replacing Beatty, Collins replacing Rolle, no one to replace JPP. How is this team improved from 6 wins last year? 5 of the Giants 6 wins were against teams with 6 wins or less. With Eli not signed past 2015 we could be looking at the end of an era very quickly.

The thing about calling Beatty the best OL is that it isn't saying much. He is a good, but not special LT. If Flowers is anywhere near as good as he can be, even as a rookie, there shouldn't be a huge dropoff in play there. plus, the rest of the OL should be better overall.

In comment 12365699 Matt M. said:

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...The thing about calling Beatty the best OL is that it isn't saying much. He is a good, but not special LT. If Flowers is anywhere near as good as he can be, even as a rookie, there shouldn't be a huge dropoff in play there. plus, the rest of the OL should be better overall.

Not sure how Marshall Newhouse figures to be an "improvement" over Justin Pugh. Even over Pugh's bad sophomore year...

this injury is not only going to prevent him from being productive this year but until he is healthy and given a chance to produce it will take re-signing him to a new contract. I don't think it will be worth the investment.

He had a chance to be great but is far too immature and moronic to understand the formula for success. Attitude and effort are what he can control. His attitude sucked and he never seemed to give 100% effort. I don't want him back and I would be happy with Moore getting the RDE spot. I wanted the Giants to move JPP to LDE anyway. So, Selvie and Wynn can fight out that spot with Moore, Oh Diggy and Ayers at RDE.

Move on Reese. Let him walk.

to a dominating DE who blows up his hand/arm with fireworks ...

It's amazing what dumb shit some of these multi-millionaire idiots do - and the impact it has on us as fans.

For me - I was already done with Burress before he shot himself - and JPP's best year was always going to be his rookie year. Last season's numbers were disturbing to me - why couldn't he get it done when it mattered?

I'm so tired of the crap generated by supposedly "professional" athletes. Sports has been such a large part of my life - playing sports in my youth - and following the Giants/Rangers thereafter. Yet, it is crap like Burress/JPP that drains me emotionally to the point where I'm not sure it's worth it anymore.

Focus on the guys we have, especially those that make positive contributions on and off the field. Don't let the pinheads bring you down.

In other words...Accentuate the Positive.

If Reese, TC and management are smart they see the JPP situation for what it is, a disaster, and cut the non-sense and him July 15th.

As Eric note, JPP missed the entire off-season of OTA's and hence has no knowledge of Spags defense. JPP himself has said he ain't showing til he is healed UNLESS the GIANTS guarantee his contract. No way the Giants do that right now, not unless they know the full extent of the injuries and the healing time involved. No way you pay someone big money when they have a lackadaisical attitude and less than friendly response to Giants.

I take the $15 million and begin working on contract extensions for Eli and Prince. If you pay out say $7 million each more in base or whatever to them this year and sign them to five year extensions (with 5th year being so high they are virtually "cut or re-do years") you lock up two key guys. I realize Prince has been hurt a bit during his tenure but they aren't those "major" debilitating type injuries like permanent bad backs, ACL tears and the like.

Just use the JPP money wisely and SPEND it this year. Don't lose it or keep it for owners coffers (the Giants won't).

Send a message that this is about TEAM and about the future of the TEAM. Play JPP tough cause he deserves to be played that way. There is a price to pay for bad choices. I wish JPP well - I really truly do BUT I'm not sure he'd ever be truly "well" with the Giants. Not this year for sure and at $15 million that is just way too expensive for my taste!