long term.
If Cruz comes back anywhere near 100 percent, I can't see Randle wanting to come back here.
But if Cruz looks like permanently-damaged goods and Randle builds upon his 2014 finish with a good season, Giants may be able to make a pitch to Randle that he's the new #2 moving forward.
One of the interesting sub-plots of the season.
Along a similar line, if Cruz is just a guy, I have a hard time seeing the Giants paying him $8 million in base salary in 2016.
And of course in the end, it's always about the money, from the player's angle. With perhaps the exception of Cruz who really wanted to stay a Giant... mostly because he's home grown IMO, and smart enough to know he'd never have the same off-field opportunities as he has in the NY metro area.
Parity is the league by design
The Seahawks came as close as they came because they had a QB they could win with cheap, and had drafted towards Carrols's style of play, they did it with a plan and a plan that worked.
But the Seahawks won't hold together any better than any other NFL team. That's not how the modern NFL works.
Parity sucks!
What different direction? This team has invested boatloads, mostly through draft picks and then replacements for those picks when they got injured (career ending or severely diminishing ie SS and HN) or simply sucked (Barden, Jernigan) or just weren't deemed worth of continuation (MM). Ironically, Cruz the UDFA (if he bounces back) may be the only one earning a 2nd deal to his rookie contract! I'm betting Randle is a goner, if I had to bet, after 2015. Which leaves OBJ and the silly money it might take to re-sign/extend him.
Eli put his foot down about WR talent on the roster when we lost Plax, and though he's been quiet as a mouse since then, JR took notice and has continued to stock WRs, with the fantastic success of nabbing OBJ as the 3rd WR taken in his draft class.
He blocks well IMO, and doesn't have a prima donna head. Watch how he cleared things out for OBJ last year on many OBJ highlight plays. I take Sean Ryan's words at face value that Reuben "gets it" in terms of the offense.
How much will he think he is worth?
Plus cap is going way up........so everyone will have money.
Prince ; Eli, if not signed by then; JPP, if healthy, playing well and has his head on straight; will be priority over him.
However, Cruz would have to be released at season's end and a lot of consideration will have to be given to a new slot receiver.
I think JPP might have more of an impact on this decision from a Giants perspective. Do we keep JPP beyond this year? If not them that is a lot of open money. Do we swing for the fences in FA with that money? Do we resign our players like Prince? Do we try to go with a more even approach where we address multiple positions with a buy low approach hoping for a big return?
I didn't think we would resign Randle because if he has a great year then he would probably ask for more than we were going to offer. If he doesn't play well then we may just want to move on. There is that small window where he plays good but not great and others around the league view him as a player that just greatly benefited from Beckham and our style of offense so the interest is minimal.
But you bring up a good point. What if the Giants are desperate? Desperation can lead to bad decisions.
I would love to see Cruz completely return to form, but I think even if Cruz surprises us all, the Giants will be cautious with Cruz early and limit his snaps. That being said, Cruz clearly appears to be ahead of schedule and he has done nothing but beat the odds since earning a jersey. Really want to see his story continue for many many years.
We're paying Eli, JPP (this year), Cromartie, Prince (now and into the future if we re-sign him), Cruz, Beatty (this year - who knows about next, but someone else will step up to the big dollar bin). OBJ looms big for the future, but that's a couple years down the road.
To be a solid team, you need to draft/find decent players. they don't need to be stars. they need to contribute. you can't spend 4 or 5 years hoping a Moss or a Jernigan or a (drawing a blank, the big guy we drafted high and held on to forever, think his name starts with a B) or a Robinson step up. they were all relatively low paid, but none of them did squat. you need low paid players who do something. You need to have a Hosley who isn't a liability. You need draft a RB to step up, so you don't have to spend FA dollars on one, or two. This is the area we've sucked at. We've excelled at having players like Randle who might or might not be good, but several years in we're still in the dark about which one it's going to be. We hit on a draft pick or two every year, but blow it on drafting meat and potato guys. And that's why this team has been (and I think will remain) an also ran team.
That's why I won't be too upset regardless of what happens with JPP, especially after 2015. Rather than rely on a pass rush from one player for $15 million, the Giants will have to rely on an aggressive defensive scheme and be able to spread that money around for 3 players.
That's true yet it could be the dominant slot receiver (Cruz) which opens up Randle. (Of course, OBJ has so etching to do with other getting open too).
I don't know. RR seems like a pretty laid back guy. If he is getting paid OK and happy with the work environment (for lack of a better term) I don't think he will care about not putting up the best stats possible
"But if Cruz looks like permanently-damaged goods and Randle builds upon his 2014 finish with a good season, Giants may be able to make a pitch to Randle that he's the new #2 moving forward.
If Randle does have a big year, you will have to pay through the nose to keep him, because he will be looking for big bucks if he has a big year....
Then there is the other side of the coin, he has an average RR year....stats are ok, but comes up short when counted on....how much do you pay him?
It's quite possible, neither is here next year, in a worst case scenario....
Some on this board look at this offense as awesome, with out playing.....if Cruz's knee does not come back....if RR pulls a "Jernigan", then teams concentrate on OBj.....and if one of the lesser WR's does not step up and take the slack, this offense is in trouble.....
I did not like the way Cruz performed last year before the injury....the injury will not make him better.....Randle has to show that, the end of the season against lesser teams, is something he can build on...it's a contract year for him....you would think you will see the best of RR....that remains to be seen.....
I like Parker.....not sold on Harris until he shows he can do it....the rest are just wannabees....
Similar to JPP, if he plays big and wants open market dollars then you're probably forced to choose between RR and Cruz. But, this is why I'd said all pre-draft that WR would figure to be target in the first three rounds, and it was. Will be again next year.
UFA...draft pick contracts are basically 4-year deals now. The only ones who really become RFA's are undrafted players.
Everyone will lose targets this year due to Cruz and also Vereen and hopefully a better run game. At the same time I expect the 3 WR set to be our most frequently used offense and I expect a dynamic offense with the talent on this team (assuming the o-line doesn't implode). I still don't think it's out of the question that Randle can catch 75-80 balls this year (that's 5 catches per game) for close to 1,000 yards.
If Cruz plays well and there is no pay-cut, Randle being here will depend on his asking price and Washington's development. If Washington develops into a good WR there is no need for Randle and his money can be allocated elsewhere. But if he doesn't I don't think this team can afford to let Randle go. This team will need its draft picks for the defense and OL next year, and I can't imagine they would want to reinvest a high pick in a WR again.
WR has been one of the bloodlines of the team's success under TC/JR. They were going to draft Lockett and Strong in the 3rd round before both were picked, and they went OO.
It's why I always laugh when people talk about their drafts, or how many draft picks remain (the ones they don't resign).
Those that make those arguments are not paying attention to the way the Patriots conduct football. They use "fan" metrics and ideas
That isn't to say that the Giants should copy it, but given the context of the thread and the 3wr dilema it's worth note.
Parity era football is parity era football. Not a good thing in my opinion, but it is what it is
Eli - Contract year. Knows the offense, will build on his success from last year. Healthy going into the season. Better arm strength.
A lot of weapons for Eli this year - OBJ, Cruz (assuming he's healthy), Randle, Donnell, Vereen. Parker is a solid WR and Washington could be a player too.
Running game should improve. Jennings is solid, hopefully he's healthy now. Andre Williams looks like a brick sh**house (did anyone see the photo of him on Facebook). I mentioned Vereen before, he's a player. He can run too.
If the OL gives us solid play, we could be scary.
And, they need to. Our defense took a hit with the probable loss of JPP's effectiveness and we have no proven safeties. I don't have high hopes on that side of the ball. We need to score a lot of points to overcome it.
Everyone is throwing the ball in college now, which means more wide receivers with NFL skill sets.
Everyone is throwing the ball in college now, which means more wide receivers with NFL skill sets.
Go back and check RR numbers and compare them to his draft class and the following year. You'll may be surprise.
Quote:
There are guys like him all over the NFL. If he's looking to get paid I'd let someone else do it.
Everyone is throwing the ball in college now, which means more wide receivers with NFL skill sets.
Go back and check RR numbers and compare them to his draft class and the following year. You'll may be surprise.
That exercise wouldn't tell me anything about what his future as a Giant should look like. Our replacement options aren't limited to guys in his draft class. He's a nice enough player, but I think we can upgrade there.
Interested to see what Kevin White does as a rookie.
Pro Bowler every year he's been in the league, ALL PRO twice in 4 seasons.
They don't play the same position anyway. Cruz needs to go to the slot and stay there. OBJ and RR can work the perimeter. That's the best use of their athletic abilities.
Along a similar line, if Cruz is just a guy, I have a hard time seeing the Giants paying him $8 million in base salary in 2016.
What helps Cruz is that he is a true fan favorite and a bona-fide slot receiver who will get open short if healthy.
We'll know a lot more in the next few weeks. I pray for the best; hope for the best; and let the games determine the rest.
But here's the problem with the premise. It presumes that the Giants will want to keep Cruz regardless of what Randle does, or that Randle will want to leave regardless of what the Giants and the market dictates.
IMO, Randle can prove himself as a valuable #3 on this team this year. If he manages 60+ receptions and/or gets 800+ yards then the Giants will have to decide if they would rather keep Cruz or give his money plus to Randle. My guess is that they would go with Randle, provided RR proves himself to the team. He's younger and healthier, and can be expected to perform longer on the Giants than elsewhere.
Now who else out there will value him higher than that? The likelihood is that any performance he gives will be discounted by others due to his playing alongside a couple of top WR. Especially if Cruz returns to a high level (90+ catches, 1100+yds) of play.
If Randle plays well the Giants might part ways with Cruz anyway and offer Randle his money.
Perhaps the bigger influence on Randle's return is how the other receivers play.
And do not overstate his numbers whereas he put up 1/3 of his season's total yards and touchdowns during shoot-outs with teams already out of playoff contention in last two weeks.
And Eli having plenty of targets this season cuts both ways relative to Randle's chances of being productive, so its up to him whether he takes advantage.
Keep in mind that Randle will still be just 24 when his rookie contract expires. He's positioned to get paid at least twice if he stays healthy and continues to improve. That won't necessarily affect his decision. It just speaks to his financial upside.
Based on this, I believe how RR performs in 2015 will be the most critical factor followed by more knowledge acquired relating to the ultimate durability of ODB.
Cruz's 2011 season set a completely unreasonable benchmark for what he is and what he can be. He was unlikely to replicate that incredible run of big plays under the best of circumstances, even with Beckham emerging to fill the shoes of Hakeem Nicks. If you take the 2012-2014 (pre-injury) Cruz, then hobble him with a torn patellar tendon, you have a player who, while still potentially very valuable, could very well have a lower ceiling than Randle.
Randle is limited only by lack of special long speed. He fcould be Larry Fitzgerald if he worked his ass of, but a more realistic scenario is a poor man's LF.
You want to run GB's offense then you need targets- good targets. Pay him- there will be lots of competition for his services.
In any case, I think you might be selling VC's native gifts a bit short. His Pro Day measurables were quite good overall, and his vertical was outstanding. He does drop more passes than you'd like, but I think that's as much a function of his play-making instincts as it is a fundamental problem with his hands. And his field vision - the attribute that made him a star - is top-tier; or at least it was a few years ago.
WUT? I think you got confused and said "Cruz" when you meant "Steve Smith." Because Cruz is very clearly not a "dime a dozen" physical talent in the NFL. His burst and RAC are in fact exceptional.