What were the words from Ibama's mouth that he knowingly lied to the American people on Benghazi. The exact word that were the lie
This is ridiculous. He and Clinton blamed the video. Even after they knew that was wrong. He went on the View of all places and said that after it was already known that it wasn't because of the video. And that debate, when the then claimed he called it a terrorist attack when he said at the time it was because of a video. He and Clinton APOLOGIZED for the video.
they lie to further their agenda or personal gain. They both have the same playbook. Attack anyone who threatens your agenda or power and lie to get what you want and then pretend that anyone who calls you on it is some right wing kook. And HH is one of their useful idiots.
Obama was accused of lying about Solyndra. What are the words that formed the lie from his mouth? I'm spinning? No I am asking for the actual words that he lied with
how did he lie about unemployment figures? It's my understanding that the same methodology has been used for decades. You can argue that it's underreported and should be changed. But not a lie.
instructed the IRS to target conservatives. When to the impeachment proceedings start? That is grounds for dumping him. Where are the memos of the president ordering the head of the IRS to target conservatives?
I have a negative view of the man so I don't think you want to know my answer here. But regardless, he should have ordered Holder to launch a real investigation.
Don't you find it odd that in most of these scandals the e-mails keep permanently disappearing? How does an e-mail disappear? At my agency, everything was backed up regularly (e-mails, files) I still can't fathom how any department can seriously claim the e-mails are gone.
You can't answer a question so you deflect and make believe the question was never asked. You're this gasbag that when you get called to defend a statement you make, you can't , you only parrot talk radio you don't have to think, they do it for you. But when you are asked to defend what you parrot you fold like a broken accordion
how did he lie about unemployment figures? It's my understanding that the same methodology has been used for decades. You can argue that it's underreported and should be changed. But not a lie.
It's a lie if anyone does it. Republican or Democrat. Not saying Obama is alone in this. But I was asked about how he has lied (I'd prefer to use the word disingenuous).
If you said he bungled Fast & Furious, he mishandled getting the story of Benghazi out in a timely manner, I'd agree that he botched it, but bitching it isn't lying about it
He attributed the attack to the video. At the UN he cited the video and spoke about Chris Stevens in depth but included Benghazi along with other violence that was more due to the video.
But I'm also incredulous that you would separate what susan rice or josh Ernest or Jay carney say from Obama.
If you said he bungled Fast & Furious, he mishandled getting the story of Benghazi out in a timely manner, I'd agree that he botched it, but bitching it isn't lying about it
Yes, I believe he has deliberately deceived the American public. You asked me to provide some examples and I did. You don't think those are legitimate examples. I do. We'll have to leave it at that. We're not going to change each other's minds on this.
You can't answer a question so you deflect and make believe the question was never asked. You're this gasbag that when you get called to defend a statement you make, you can't , you only parrot talk radio you don't have to think, they do it for you. But when you are asked to defend what you parrot you fold like a broken accordion
Please keep track of the posts. I didn't say that Obama lied directly about Solyndra. Definitely misrepresented what happened or what would happen since he had to know that Solyndra was in deep trouble.
I was mainly responding to your characterization of Solyndra and how everything happened. Which you had 100% wrong.
he is their boss. Did they bungle the roll out of the story, the Three Stooges would be proud. That isn't the issue, the issue is the President is a liar. You just have to provide the lies from his mouth and you are right and I am wrong. So give me his exact lie
he is their boss. Did they bungle the roll out of the story, the Three Stooges would be proud. That isn't the issue, the issue is the President is a liar. You just have to provide the lies from his mouth and you are right and I am wrong. So give me his exact lie
We have many times.
RE: Is he responsible for what they say? Absolutely Â
he is their boss. Did they bungle the roll out of the story, the Three Stooges would be proud. That isn't the issue, the issue is the President is a liar. You just have to provide the lies from his mouth and you are right and I am wrong. So give me his exact lie
I think at this point I'll just echo Eric's last post
from Barack Obama that is a willful lie. Not 1, yet you think you have proved many. I'd love to know your SAT reading comprehension scores
He and his senior officials have made plenty of false statements on most if not all of the few items I listed. I'm not going to hunt down the quotes but there are plenty both during the two presidential campaigns and after them when in office.
You asked. I answered. You don't agree with my answer.
he really wants a single payer nationalized health care system. But he won't say it.
There is no doubt that if he had the votes, which he didn't, we'd have a single payer system today. He took what he could get and paved the way for single payer in the future.
keep in mind, he had a super-majority in Congress the first two years of his Administration.
That's actually not true. Democrats had a super-majority for only 7 weeks of Obama's presidency, up until the point Ted Kennedy died.
That's news to me. Did they have a majority? (I'm pretty sure the Democrats controlled both houses for the first two years).
If you ask me, Obama has potentially sabotaged himself by not laying a better foundation with Congress throughout his Presidency.
The old health care system was broken. Something had to change. If the Administration had thrown the Republicans a few bones on tort reform and cross-state competition, you would have had some bilateral support. There would be a vested interest in Obamacare moving forward (or fixing it if there were problems). Now, I think it survives if HRC wins. It will become institutionalized. But if she loses, it may disappear. Big risk by Obama.
Same story with Iran deal. The way he is handling this if the Republicans win, while the UN sanctions will be permanently gone, the U.S. sanctions and hard feelings may return very quickly.
You have to build bipartisan support on big ticket stuff to have vested interest in its survival.
instructed the IRS to target conservatives. When to the impeachment proceedings start? That is grounds for dumping him.
The Congress doesn't have the balls to impreach the first Black President and Obama knows that, as does any politically savvy person over the age of 9.
he really wants a single payer nationalized health care system. But he won't say it.
There is no doubt that if he had the votes, which he didn't, we'd have a single payer system today. He took what he could get and paved the way for single payer in the future.
Isn't he being disingenuous by not saying that?
It's the same way Republicans who say they are pro life have no real intention of overturning Roe v. Wade.
As I said to Headhunter, I'll make a Republican list too. But let's not act like Obama is some sort of saint.
But the idea that they had a super-majority for 2 years is a myth. Republicans in Congress wouldn't have been able to break the record for most filibusters in a session if they did.
he really wants a single payer nationalized health care system. But he won't say it.
There is no doubt that if he had the votes, which he didn't, we'd have a single payer system today. He took what he could get and paved the way for single payer in the future.
Isn't he being disingenuous by not saying that?
It's the same way Republicans who say they are pro life have no real intention of overturning Roe v. Wade.
As I said to Headhunter, I'll make a Republican list too. But let's not act like Obama is some sort of saint.
Of course he's being disingenuous. Like he was when he said you can keep your doctor. Or when he said marriage should be something between a man and a woman. There actually are some R's who would overturn Roe-Wade, but not many
But the idea that they had a super-majority for 2 years is a myth. Republicans in Congress wouldn't have been able to break the record for most filibusters in a session if they did.
Thanks. But with both houses, I have a hard time accepting an argument that Congress was the problem. If anything, the Congress has surrendered more Constitutional authority to the White House and the Supreme Court than ever before. It's become a pretty impotent organization. Not good.
What bugs me most is it seems that Europe has become the role model we should aspire to. This country was ultimately founded by people trying to get away from that screwed up continent. Now it's some sort of model?
I am of the persuasion that we are the model. Do we have our problems? You bet. But moving towards socialism isn't the answer. It sounds great, but it doesn't work. And the long-term fiscal viability of even the lesser social democracy models in Europe is in question (not just Greece).
There was an article in Politico earlier this month that said if the United States could simply get rid of the South, we could finally become more European. It was a nauseating read.
But the idea that they had a super-majority for 2 years is a myth. Republicans in Congress wouldn't have been able to break the record for most filibusters in a session if they did.
Reed could have just had the vote to stop filibusters then. Problem solved.
I'm not even sure what socialism means these days Â
Not that it matters, I guess. I'm an eclectic: neither conservative nor liberal, nor even a centrist; I would address each issue based on its own merits and the budget at the time. On foreign policy my approach is that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
What bugs me most is it seems that Europe has become the role model we should aspire to. This country was ultimately founded by people trying to get away from that screwed up continent. Now it's some sort of model?
I am of the persuasion that we are the model. Do we have our problems? You bet. But moving towards socialism isn't the answer. It sounds great, but it doesn't work. And the long-term fiscal viability of even the lesser social democracy models in Europe is in question (not just Greece).
There was an article in Politico earlier this month that said if the United States could simply get rid of the South, we could finally become more European. It was a nauseating read.
I don't think that just getting rid of the South would do it. We'd have to get rid of fly-over country also. Actually just keep NE, the West coast and WI, MI and PA. Socialist college football would mostly suck
The old health care system was broken. Something had to change. If the Administration had thrown the Republicans a few bones on tort reform and cross-state competition, you would have had some bilateral support.
Eric you are talking about a party that had its leaders meet as He and Michelle were dancing at inaugural balls and decided their #1 goal was to block every last policy initiative that Obama proposed. Do you honestly think one Republican was voting for the affordable care act in any form whatsoever? If you think so I have some ocean front property in North Dakota to sell you. What the hell else did they have to do? They adopted the Romney Care Heritage foundation healthcare plan. Come on you are smarter than that.
I am not informed enough on global warming to weigh in intelligently in either direction. All I know is there is conflicting information. (For example, global temperatures have not risen for the last 20 years, some scientists argue that decreased sun spot activity is actually pointing towards global cooling, etc.).
I've long thought it was stupid for Republicans to appear to be anti-environmental... after all, reducing pollution is a good thing. And while regulation can hurt business, it can also help to create new industries as long as the regulations are not too onerous.
But global warming is not the #1 national security threat. If you believe that, you're watching too much MSNBC.
MSNBC doesn't talk really about climate either as far as I know, but I don't watch their super left talking head primetime shows.
Climate is woefully under reported from all mainstream outlets, and as I said, I see the issue as Obama's biggest failure.
Now, to be fair, Climate is not the #1 national security issue. (I actually think cyber security is the biggest threat). However, when the most populous state in the Union is facing a drought of biblical proportions, yeah that's a huge security issue. We are talking about 60% of the state classified as extreme drought or worse. A water deficit of 12 trillion gallons. Billions in negative economic impact. If 38 million people suddenly find their faucets running dry, that's a more frightening proposition than Islamic extremists or Russian despots thousands of miles away. It's not some quirk of the weather causing this, it's a rapidly deteriorating climate. That's my opinion, though.
As for the science, people need to get real. The amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is already at critical levels today. The doomsday number of 450 million parts per million will be reached in 20 years at the current emission rate. This is real scary shit.
from Barack Obama that is a willful lie. Not 1, yet you think you have proved many.
Obama lied when he said that Americans who were happy with their current health insurance policy would be able to maintain it under Obamacare....
Quote:
"If you like the plan you have, you can keep it. If you like the doctor you have, you can keep your doctor, too. The only change you’ll see are falling costs as our reforms take hold."
And he lied when he told Armenian-Americans that as President he would call the Armenian genocide what it was, a genocide....
Quote:
"Two years ago, I criticized the Secretary of State for the firing of U.S. Ambassador to Armenia, John Evans, after he properly used the term 'genocide' to describe Turkey's slaughter of thousands of Armenians starting in 1915. … as President I will recognize the Armenian Genocide."
back to If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor. that did come out of his mouth. But that seems to give cover to saying he is a liar and he has told lies. I'm asking for other 'lies" from his mouth because lies is a plural.
Imho it's more of an indication of deceptiveness that these "leaders" are clever and careful enough not to lie in the legal sense yet morally ungrounded enough to deceive and evade. To be blunt that's one trait of a sociopath. I am not sure that the job does not require such....but then again why did the greats not have to do that. ...Lincoln...TR...Jackson...Washington...Adams.
Much like the old saying about slowly increasing the temperature deceives a frog to complacency until boiled where as dropping a frog into a stew of lies gives him the opportunity to jump out of danger. ...I think the American experience since Eisenhower has us boiled and America hollow husk of Americana.
Separately...I don't think the nation is remotely becoming socialist. I think it is economic fascism...and that drift happened under Clinton Bush Obama.
And I think the fact that too many citizens don't know the difference between the two allows fascism to grow while we object to second tier signals of things that look like socialism.
as a liar for "Read my lips, no new taxes" He felt it to be true when he said it, turns out things changed. I believe that Obama believed it at the time and did not willfully lie to the american public. I'm sure i'm going to see that I am naive, I'm a homer, or whatever, but flame away, it's what I believe
That's a fair point HH. One cannot do the right thing as the fact base of dynamic situations change and be consistent with prior assumed realities. True for all leaders.
But that is also easy to just say to the public as the rationale.
Imho....they all assume the electorate is stupid and has to be maneuvered and "over guided". A common trait signal of nations and organizations with elitists at the top.
And to tie to an earlier point ....elitism does not go hand in hand with socialism...it goes hand in hand with economic fascism
back to If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor. that did come out of his mouth. But that seems to give cover to saying he is a liar and he has told lies. I'm asking for other 'lies" from his mouth because lies is a plural.
It's a lie because they knew it was untrue when it was stated. It's a lie because it was deliberately told to get the bill passed. It's a lie because Obama doesn't care if you keep your doctor or your plan or save $2500 a year. All he cares about is pushing his agenda. Whether you like it or not, if it's good or not or will be successful or not. He's a dishonest person, he has no integrity and he's proven that time and time again.
That's a fair point HH. One cannot do the right thing as the fact base of dynamic situations change and be consistent with prior assumed realities. True for all leaders.
But that is also easy to just say to the public as the rationale.
Imho....they all assume the electorate is stupid and has to be maneuvered and "over guided". A common trait signal of nations and organizations with elitists at the top.
And to tie to an earlier point ....elitism does not go hand in hand with socialism...it goes hand in hand with economic fascism
Agree Bill. There is a cartel of Politicians, Lobbyists and Big Business who are running the country for their benefit.
I'm not even so sure if that was a lie as much as it was a complete lack of understanding that some people actually like having crappy and inadequate health insurance.
I'm not even so sure if that was a lie as much as it was a complete lack of understanding that some people actually like having crappy and inadequate health insurance.
In other words, it is Ok for me to lie to you because I know better than you.
People with?
This is ridiculous. He and Clinton blamed the video. Even after they knew that was wrong. He went on the View of all places and said that after it was already known that it wasn't because of the video. And that debate, when the then claimed he called it a terrorist attack when he said at the time it was because of a video. He and Clinton APOLOGIZED for the video.
You seem to have a very selective memory.
I have a negative view of the man so I don't think you want to know my answer here. But regardless, he should have ordered Holder to launch a real investigation.
Don't you find it odd that in most of these scandals the e-mails keep permanently disappearing? How does an e-mail disappear? At my agency, everything was backed up regularly (e-mails, files) I still can't fathom how any department can seriously claim the e-mails are gone.
It's a lie if anyone does it. Republican or Democrat. Not saying Obama is alone in this. But I was asked about how he has lied (I'd prefer to use the word disingenuous).
But I'm also incredulous that you would separate what susan rice or josh Ernest or Jay carney say from Obama.
Yes, I believe he has deliberately deceived the American public. You asked me to provide some examples and I did. You don't think those are legitimate examples. I do. We'll have to leave it at that. We're not going to change each other's minds on this.
Please keep track of the posts. I didn't say that Obama lied directly about Solyndra. Definitely misrepresented what happened or what would happen since he had to know that Solyndra was in deep trouble.
I was mainly responding to your characterization of Solyndra and how everything happened. Which you had 100% wrong.
We have many times.
I think at this point I'll just echo Eric's last post
He and his senior officials have made plenty of false statements on most if not all of the few items I listed. I'm not going to hunt down the quotes but there are plenty both during the two presidential campaigns and after them when in office.
You asked. I answered. You don't agree with my answer.
That's actually not true. Democrats had a super-majority for only 7 weeks of Obama's presidency, up until the point Ted Kennedy died.
There is no doubt that if he had the votes, which he didn't, we'd have a single payer system today. He took what he could get and paved the way for single payer in the future.
Quote:
keep in mind, he had a super-majority in Congress the first two years of his Administration.
That's actually not true. Democrats had a super-majority for only 7 weeks of Obama's presidency, up until the point Ted Kennedy died.
That's news to me. Did they have a majority? (I'm pretty sure the Democrats controlled both houses for the first two years).
If you ask me, Obama has potentially sabotaged himself by not laying a better foundation with Congress throughout his Presidency.
The old health care system was broken. Something had to change. If the Administration had thrown the Republicans a few bones on tort reform and cross-state competition, you would have had some bilateral support. There would be a vested interest in Obamacare moving forward (or fixing it if there were problems). Now, I think it survives if HRC wins. It will become institutionalized. But if she loses, it may disappear. Big risk by Obama.
Same story with Iran deal. The way he is handling this if the Republicans win, while the UN sanctions will be permanently gone, the U.S. sanctions and hard feelings may return very quickly.
You have to build bipartisan support on big ticket stuff to have vested interest in its survival.
The Congress doesn't have the balls to impreach the first Black President and Obama knows that, as does any politically savvy person over the age of 9.
Quote:
he really wants a single payer nationalized health care system. But he won't say it.
There is no doubt that if he had the votes, which he didn't, we'd have a single payer system today. He took what he could get and paved the way for single payer in the future.
Isn't he being disingenuous by not saying that?
It's the same way Republicans who say they are pro life have no real intention of overturning Roe v. Wade.
As I said to Headhunter, I'll make a Republican list too. But let's not act like Obama is some sort of saint.
Quote:
In comment 12384734 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
he really wants a single payer nationalized health care system. But he won't say it.
There is no doubt that if he had the votes, which he didn't, we'd have a single payer system today. He took what he could get and paved the way for single payer in the future.
Isn't he being disingenuous by not saying that?
It's the same way Republicans who say they are pro life have no real intention of overturning Roe v. Wade.
As I said to Headhunter, I'll make a Republican list too. But let's not act like Obama is some sort of saint.
Of course he's being disingenuous. Like he was when he said you can keep your doctor. Or when he said marriage should be something between a man and a woman. There actually are some R's who would overturn Roe-Wade, but not many
Thanks. But with both houses, I have a hard time accepting an argument that Congress was the problem. If anything, the Congress has surrendered more Constitutional authority to the White House and the Supreme Court than ever before. It's become a pretty impotent organization. Not good.
What bugs me most is it seems that Europe has become the role model we should aspire to. This country was ultimately founded by people trying to get away from that screwed up continent. Now it's some sort of model?
I am of the persuasion that we are the model. Do we have our problems? You bet. But moving towards socialism isn't the answer. It sounds great, but it doesn't work. And the long-term fiscal viability of even the lesser social democracy models in Europe is in question (not just Greece).
There was an article in Politico earlier this month that said if the United States could simply get rid of the South, we could finally become more European. It was a nauseating read.
Reed could have just had the vote to stop filibusters then. Problem solved.
What bugs me most is it seems that Europe has become the role model we should aspire to. This country was ultimately founded by people trying to get away from that screwed up continent. Now it's some sort of model?
I am of the persuasion that we are the model. Do we have our problems? You bet. But moving towards socialism isn't the answer. It sounds great, but it doesn't work. And the long-term fiscal viability of even the lesser social democracy models in Europe is in question (not just Greece).
There was an article in Politico earlier this month that said if the United States could simply get rid of the South, we could finally become more European. It was a nauseating read.
I don't think that just getting rid of the South would do it. We'd have to get rid of fly-over country also. Actually just keep NE, the West coast and WI, MI and PA. Socialist college football would mostly suck
The old health care system was broken. Something had to change. If the Administration had thrown the Republicans a few bones on tort reform and cross-state competition, you would have had some bilateral support.
Eric you are talking about a party that had its leaders meet as He and Michelle were dancing at inaugural balls and decided their #1 goal was to block every last policy initiative that Obama proposed. Do you honestly think one Republican was voting for the affordable care act in any form whatsoever? If you think so I have some ocean front property in North Dakota to sell you. What the hell else did they have to do? They adopted the Romney Care Heritage foundation healthcare plan. Come on you are smarter than that.
Well, it probably is. See the horrifying New Yorker article linked below. The capital of USA may very well be Des Moines in 50 years.
If you're more afraid of ISIS than the California drought, you probably watch too much Fox News.
If anything, looking back, lack of action on climate will probably be Obama's biggest failure.
New Yorker: Meet James Harden - ( New Window )
See the horrifying New Yorker article linked below. The capital of USA may very well be Des Moines in 50 years.
Now that would be a huge improvement
I've long thought it was stupid for Republicans to appear to be anti-environmental... after all, reducing pollution is a good thing. And while regulation can hurt business, it can also help to create new industries as long as the regulations are not too onerous.
But global warming is not the #1 national security threat. If you believe that, you're watching too much MSNBC.
Climate is woefully under reported from all mainstream outlets, and as I said, I see the issue as Obama's biggest failure.
Now, to be fair, Climate is not the #1 national security issue. (I actually think cyber security is the biggest threat). However, when the most populous state in the Union is facing a drought of biblical proportions, yeah that's a huge security issue. We are talking about 60% of the state classified as extreme drought or worse. A water deficit of 12 trillion gallons. Billions in negative economic impact. If 38 million people suddenly find their faucets running dry, that's a more frightening proposition than Islamic extremists or Russian despots thousands of miles away. It's not some quirk of the weather causing this, it's a rapidly deteriorating climate. That's my opinion, though.
As for the science, people need to get real. The amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is already at critical levels today. The doomsday number of 450 million parts per million will be reached in 20 years at the current emission rate. This is real scary shit.
Obama lied when he said that Americans who were happy with their current health insurance policy would be able to maintain it under Obamacare....
Much like the old saying about slowly increasing the temperature deceives a frog to complacency until boiled where as dropping a frog into a stew of lies gives him the opportunity to jump out of danger. ...I think the American experience since Eisenhower has us boiled and America hollow husk of Americana.
Separately...I don't think the nation is remotely becoming socialist. I think it is economic fascism...and that drift happened under Clinton Bush Obama.
And I think the fact that too many citizens don't know the difference between the two allows fascism to grow while we object to second tier signals of things that look like socialism.
Imho
But that is also easy to just say to the public as the rationale.
Imho....they all assume the electorate is stupid and has to be maneuvered and "over guided". A common trait signal of nations and organizations with elitists at the top.
And to tie to an earlier point ....elitism does not go hand in hand with socialism...it goes hand in hand with economic fascism
It's a lie because they knew it was untrue when it was stated. It's a lie because it was deliberately told to get the bill passed. It's a lie because Obama doesn't care if you keep your doctor or your plan or save $2500 a year. All he cares about is pushing his agenda. Whether you like it or not, if it's good or not or will be successful or not. He's a dishonest person, he has no integrity and he's proven that time and time again.
But that is also easy to just say to the public as the rationale.
Imho....they all assume the electorate is stupid and has to be maneuvered and "over guided". A common trait signal of nations and organizations with elitists at the top.
And to tie to an earlier point ....elitism does not go hand in hand with socialism...it goes hand in hand with economic fascism
Agree Bill. There is a cartel of Politicians, Lobbyists and Big Business who are running the country for their benefit.