The one thing that might get overlooked is the GM's didn't start working on these trades last week. They talked during the Winter meetings and probably before that. They have been scouting potential targets all season long in the bigs and the minors. These deals don't just happen, there is more sense of urgency to get them done because there is a hard and fast deadline. One thing not to be overlooked from last night and I believe it is huge going forward was Matt Harvey's slider. He got the late hard bite back
Grandy, Murphy/Herrera, Tulo, Duda, Dickerson, Conforto/Cuddyer, Plawecki, uribe. <-- that is one tough lineup for a starting pitcher to contend with. A LOT. Of professional ABs up and down the lineup. IF, big if, but if Wright fights through for a playoff run, even better.
Harvey, DeGrom, Thor, Matz/Niese. Colon resorts to long man, end games with Robles, Parnell and Familia. Not a bad playoff pitching team.
Then you tweak it in the offseason and put the finishing touches on this roster.
Anthony DiComo @AnthonyDiComo
.@MarcCarig says #Mets are looking coyly at Yoenis Cespedes, too. One name I keep hearing is Jay Bruce...Mets are scouting him heavily.
Anthony DiComo @AnthonyDiComo
.@MarcCarig says #Mets are looking coyly at Yoenis Cespedes, too. One name I keep hearing is Jay Bruce...Mets are scouting him heavily.
Only problem with a Cespedes trade is you greatly reduce the odds of resigning him. Virtually a lock he is a rental. Bruce would be an outstanding trade!
Man, what a crazy deadline. Not sure if it's that we haven't been buyers over the past few years or what, but there seem to be a TON of good names out there on the market. Way more than at the last few winter meetings even.
he's just not a CFer, so are you moving Grandy to CF?
Putting Bruce out of position?
Where does Bruce fit?
I think you need to either acquire a CF or SS to make a trade compelling or include the player at the position your trading.
PJ,
Gomez is the only "big" CF available so your options are limited unless you want to add a lesser player. If the Mets are interested in Bruce/Cespedes it leads me to believe they are considering Granderson in CF, even part time.
Both good fielders who have spent some time there. But generally speaking that's why I'd rather spend more on Gomez/Tulo since they can be long term fixtures at positions that are weak right now.
Cespedes, Bruce, or any other CO you just send Conforto down. It probably wouldn't be the worst thing. Lets be serious. Conforto likely isn't giving us Cespedes/Bruce production for the rest of the season. It wold still be a big upgrade.
We have this discussion on MMO a lot and its real interesting to me. Essentially whenever anyone comes up with a trade proposal it is littered with personal bias regarding the players we "like".
Shecky has long been a Plawecki backer so most of his trade scenarios couldl involve TDA leaving.
Eric has long liked the idea of Flores at second so he might suggest trading Herrera, because he is a "threat" to that.
I might have gotten excited with what Cecchini is doing so now my trade proposals involve Rosario. lol
The major upgrade comes if you add a bat and keep Conforto HERE. If you add a bat and send him back down, you're almost canceling eachother out and not really improving the team.
I would much rather see Granderson in CF, Conforto in LF and Bruce/Cespedes/Reddick in RF than one of those 3 in LF with Lagares in CF and Granderson in RF.
Conforto is 100% ready to be here now. He should never see the minors again.
of trading a couple of their top trading chips and also keeping their core young pitching staff intact. I would prefer they don't use up their resources trading for an often injured, aging Tulo who's past stats have been inflated playing in Colorado.
Don't panic and build with youth around this young staff and this team has a chance of being set up for a nice long run these coming years.
I realize the defensive downgrade you employ by swapping Lagares out for Granderson in CF but if you use Lagares as a 4th OF/defensive replacement it could still work. The offense would be upgraded massively. We could always shuffle around a little too.
All of a sudden we would have an excellent bench, too. That team would be good enough to contend with TdA back in the mix.
would make Flores at SS look like Ordonez. Enough with playing guys out of position in key defensive positions. Especially for solid but not great corner outfield bats like the ones proposed.
will never see the Minor Leagues outside of a rehab assignment. Are you serious?
I mean if your convinced Conforto is going to give us Cespedes/Bruce production for the rest of the year after one game great! All those players are out then. We are set.
Granderson has logged thousands of innings in CF at the MLB level. The Flores comparison is, for lack of a better word, stupid.
This isn't Daniel Murphy in LF.
I agree, and Ive long brought that up as a possibility. Would massively upgrade the offense. Going from Lagares's offense to Granderson?? lol. Granderson will still be 34 during the 2016 season. He isn't ancient. You could at least maybe do it once in a while. Not sure they would though.
Then this is the lineup we have to try and make the postseason with. There's little to gain by adding a Cespedes or Bruce type player if we're just sending Conforto right back down.
Don't let the game yesterday delude you into thinking we have an above average offense. We still need more help.
Parra would be my ideal add because he can play a good enough CF.
There's just no way I am sending Conforto back down now.
Granderson has logged thousands of innings in CF at the MLB level. The Flores comparison is, for lack of a better word, stupid.
This isn't Daniel Murphy in LF.
Cool. He was also once a good athlete. He's hardly that now. The bottom line is you're playing a guy out of position at a crticical defensive position to add a guy like Bruce who is just barely cracking .800 OPS after a whopping .650 last year.
Granderson has logged thousands of innings in CF at the MLB level. The Flores comparison is, for lack of a better word, stupid.
This isn't Daniel Murphy in LF.
I agree, and Ive long brought that up as a possibility. Would massively upgrade the offense. Going from Lagares's offense to Granderson?? lol. Granderson will still be 34 during the 2016 season. He isn't ancient. You could at least maybe do it once in a while. Not sure they would though.
It's not the most ideal thing but I don't see how it wouldn't make this team better. Lagares offensively to Granderson is a very, very large leap this season. The offensive upgrade would likely be enough to cancel out the defensive drop.
down the line we know that the Mets won't be able to afford all their young starters. What is exciting to me is knowing that each one if healthy in say 3 years could bring back a King's ransom. The Mets will not suck again because they will be getting value for each pitcher they eventually trade. By value I mean studs.
Granderson has logged thousands of innings in CF at the MLB level. The Flores comparison is, for lack of a better word, stupid.
This isn't Daniel Murphy in LF.
Cool. He was also once a good athlete. He's hardly that now. The bottom line is you're playing a guy out of position at a crticical defensive position to add a guy like Bruce who is just barely cracking .800 OPS after a whopping .650 last year.
Why do I care about Jay Bruce's one crappy outlier year in 2014 again? It's 2015 and he's putting up numbers consistent with the rest of his career again.
If Conforto is a starter and let's say Kirk is back to "2014 Kirk". The OF might not need help. Kirk had a wRC+ of 130 last year! He also plays a great CF. Starters are Conforto-Lagares/Kirk-Granderson. Backups Cuddyer-Johnson. That actually looks like a pretty balanced outfield but its predicated on two guys we need to see more from.
Dan mentioned the other day(he's no Kirk fan) that he likely gives you Venable production in CF and that was before his 4-4 night. I tend to agree.
Granderson has logged thousands of innings in CF at the MLB level. The Flores comparison is, for lack of a better word, stupid.
This isn't Daniel Murphy in LF.
I agree, and Ive long brought that up as a possibility. Would massively upgrade the offense. Going from Lagares's offense to Granderson?? lol. Granderson will still be 34 during the 2016 season. He isn't ancient. You could at least maybe do it once in a while. Not sure they would though.
It's not the most ideal thing but I don't see how it wouldn't make this team better. Lagares offensively to Granderson is a very, very large leap this season. The offensive upgrade would likely be enough to cancel out the defensive drop.
Id try it. You could still bring Lagares into the game around the 7th inning with a lead.
but I think SA has the upper hand going to next Saturday. The conversation has changed the last 48 from" DO SOMETHING!", to go for it but don't give away the farm
Granderson has logged thousands of innings in CF at the MLB level. The Flores comparison is, for lack of a better word, stupid.
This isn't Daniel Murphy in LF.
Cool. He was also once a good athlete. He's hardly that now. The bottom line is you're playing a guy out of position at a crticical defensive position to add a guy like Bruce who is just barely cracking .800 OPS after a whopping .650 last year.
Why do I care about Jay Bruce's one crappy outlier year in 2014 again? It's 2015 and he's putting up numbers consistent with the rest of his career again.
Because its his most recent full season. And its not like numbers consistent with the rest of his career are that great so you've got a guy who's a risk (.650 last year) and his upside isn't even that good. And for that you're moving a guy who can't run very well to centerfield and giving up prospects. And adding yet another LH bat to a team starved for a RH bat. Sounds like a lateral move at best.
It is exciting to see his potential playing out however you have to assume that once the pitchers get to see him more they will learn more about how to better pitch him and he will struggle some. He has a big advantage now having made the jump from AA because they don't know much about him, look at the shift the Dodgers played on him for proof of that. It is likely other teams have little to no scouting reports on him.
The good thing is even if he struggles some it doesn't mean he won't be more productive than Cuddyer been and he will only improve himself as he earns to adjust to what the pitchers do.
Don't let the game yesterday delude you into thinking we have an above average offense. We still need more help.
This can't be stressed enough. After reading some of these posts from yesterdays outburst you'd think some offensive juggernaut has sprouted from the earth. This team is still very offensively challenged and more moves should be made.
Bruce is 28 years old. Maybe I'd buy it if he was 35 but he's right back to the player he was prior to 2014 where he finished 10th in NL MVP voting twice. He also missed like 25 games last year. He was obviously not right. All you have to do is look at his career numbers and play "which one of these things doesn't belong". It's 2014.
And his 2015 thus far should be proof of that.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Please stop with the Conforto savior crap
If the Mets land a big outfield fish like Cespedes or Bruce Conforto is going down. As he should. See you when the rosters expand.
How are these guys big fish? They're basically league average corner outfielders.
Cespedes and Bruce are league average players?? WTF? Cespedes has a 3.3 WAR right now!
LOL.. yeah I was going to say. On what planet is Yoenis Cespedes a "league average" player right now?
I said league average corner OF. This is his first season (barely) over .800 since his rookie year and he's batting in an absolutely stacked lineup. He's a good bet to regress to his numbers from the past few years on the Mets.
The Dodgers put on a shift in his 4th AB and he went to LF with a ball away. When you have his balance, knowledge of the strike zone, batting eye and sweet swing, there aren't many if any any holes for pitchers to exploit. I believe once he gets to know the League, advantage Conforto
The guy it basically a .250 hitter who's power numbers have been inflated by having played in Cincinnati. I have been to that stadium and it is a bandbox.
in regards to Cespedes. He's hitting for average, power, and playing a great RF. He's also just coming into his prime.
I think Upton and Cespedes have switched from earlier in the season. Now Cespedes might be getting the huge deal and Upton might be able to be had for less(Obviously both are getting paid well over 100 million)
The guy it basically a .250 hitter who's power numbers have been inflated by having played in Cincinnati. I have been to that stadium and it is a bandbox.
There's that too.
I just think prospects and defense for either of those two guys is a lateral move. They're not difference making bats IMO.
RE: Not too worried the pitchers will get to know him
The Dodgers put on a shift in his 4th AB and he went to LF with a ball away. When you have his balance, knowledge of the strike zone, batting eye and sweet swing, there aren't many if any any holes for pitchers to exploit. I believe once he gets to know the League, advantage Conforto
Them using the shift just proves they had no idea about him.
All professional pitchers will learn how to best approach individual hitters, then it is up to the hitter to adjust to that. When he gets past that process we will have a better idea of what we really have. I'm not saying that he won't, I really like him just pointing out he will likely have a period where he struggles some that's all.
in regards to Cespedes. He's hitting for average, power, and playing a great RF. He's also just coming into his prime.
I think Upton and Cespedes have switched from earlier in the season. Now Cespedes might be getting the huge deal and Upton might be able to be had for less(Obviously both are getting paid well over 100 million)
Look at his numbers. He's having his best year since his rookie year hitting in a great lineup and its not like he's even been great.
but I think SA has the upper hand going to next Saturday. The conversation has changed the last 48 from" DO SOMETHING!", to go for it but don't give away the farm
I kind of agree. We've added 2 solid players in an acquisition. We called up our first round pick who clearly is unfazed by the bright lights. We get TDA back this week. Players like Kirk, Duda, and Murphy might be coming out of it.
I think we'd all like to add another piece but I think its changed from YOU HAVE TO DO SOMETHING, to lets see what teams approach us with. Lets not forget there is pressure on teams to try to get some value for some of these rental guys especially.
For
Tulo, Dickerson, McMahon, Brothers
Grandy, Murphy/Herrera, Tulo, Duda, Dickerson, Conforto/Cuddyer, Plawecki, uribe. <-- that is one tough lineup for a starting pitcher to contend with. A LOT. Of professional ABs up and down the lineup. IF, big if, but if Wright fights through for a playoff run, even better.
Harvey, DeGrom, Thor, Matz/Niese. Colon resorts to long man, end games with Robles, Parnell and Familia. Not a bad playoff pitching team.
Then you tweak it in the offseason and put the finishing touches on this roster.
Anthony DiComo @AnthonyDiComo
.@MarcCarig says #Mets are looking coyly at Yoenis Cespedes, too. One name I keep hearing is Jay Bruce...Mets are scouting him heavily.
Putting Bruce out of position?
Where does Bruce fit?
I think you need to either acquire a CF or SS to make a trade compelling or include the player at the position your trading.
Anthony DiComo @AnthonyDiComo
.@MarcCarig says #Mets are looking coyly at Yoenis Cespedes, too. One name I keep hearing is Jay Bruce...Mets are scouting him heavily.
Only problem with a Cespedes trade is you greatly reduce the odds of resigning him. Virtually a lock he is a rental. Bruce would be an outstanding trade!
Putting Bruce out of position?
Where does Bruce fit?
I think you need to either acquire a CF or SS to make a trade compelling or include the player at the position your trading.
PJ,
Gomez is the only "big" CF available so your options are limited unless you want to add a lesser player. If the Mets are interested in Bruce/Cespedes it leads me to believe they are considering Granderson in CF, even part time.
Shecky has long been a Plawecki backer so most of his trade scenarios couldl involve TDA leaving.
Eric has long liked the idea of Flores at second so he might suggest trading Herrera, because he is a "threat" to that.
I might have gotten excited with what Cecchini is doing so now my trade proposals involve Rosario. lol
Its just funny to me.
I would much rather see Granderson in CF, Conforto in LF and Bruce/Cespedes/Reddick in RF than one of those 3 in LF with Lagares in CF and Granderson in RF.
Conforto is 100% ready to be here now. He should never see the minors again.
Don't panic and build with youth around this young staff and this team has a chance of being set up for a nice long run these coming years.
All of a sudden we would have an excellent bench, too. That team would be good enough to contend with TdA back in the mix.
Yeah. Totally. Like I said, its just funny, and most of us probably don't even know we are doing it. If your looking for it though you'll find it.
Why take measures to nullify the bigadvantage this staff gives the team?
This isn't Daniel Murphy in LF.
I mean if your convinced Conforto is going to give us Cespedes/Bruce production for the rest of the year after one game great! All those players are out then. We are set.
This isn't Daniel Murphy in LF.
I agree, and Ive long brought that up as a possibility. Would massively upgrade the offense. Going from Lagares's offense to Granderson?? lol. Granderson will still be 34 during the 2016 season. He isn't ancient. You could at least maybe do it once in a while. Not sure they would though.
Don't let the game yesterday delude you into thinking we have an above average offense. We still need more help.
Parra would be my ideal add because he can play a good enough CF.
There's just no way I am sending Conforto back down now.
This isn't Daniel Murphy in LF.
Cool. He was also once a good athlete. He's hardly that now. The bottom line is you're playing a guy out of position at a crticical defensive position to add a guy like Bruce who is just barely cracking .800 OPS after a whopping .650 last year.
How are these guys big fish? They're basically league average corner outfielders.
Quote:
Granderson has logged thousands of innings in CF at the MLB level. The Flores comparison is, for lack of a better word, stupid.
This isn't Daniel Murphy in LF.
I agree, and Ive long brought that up as a possibility. Would massively upgrade the offense. Going from Lagares's offense to Granderson?? lol. Granderson will still be 34 during the 2016 season. He isn't ancient. You could at least maybe do it once in a while. Not sure they would though.
It's not the most ideal thing but I don't see how it wouldn't make this team better. Lagares offensively to Granderson is a very, very large leap this season. The offensive upgrade would likely be enough to cancel out the defensive drop.
Quote:
Granderson has logged thousands of innings in CF at the MLB level. The Flores comparison is, for lack of a better word, stupid.
This isn't Daniel Murphy in LF.
Cool. He was also once a good athlete. He's hardly that now. The bottom line is you're playing a guy out of position at a crticical defensive position to add a guy like Bruce who is just barely cracking .800 OPS after a whopping .650 last year.
Why do I care about Jay Bruce's one crappy outlier year in 2014 again? It's 2015 and he's putting up numbers consistent with the rest of his career again.
If Conforto is a starter and let's say Kirk is back to "2014 Kirk". The OF might not need help. Kirk had a wRC+ of 130 last year! He also plays a great CF. Starters are Conforto-Lagares/Kirk-Granderson. Backups Cuddyer-Johnson. That actually looks like a pretty balanced outfield but its predicated on two guys we need to see more from.
Dan mentioned the other day(he's no Kirk fan) that he likely gives you Venable production in CF and that was before his 4-4 night. I tend to agree.
Quote:
In comment 12386116 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Granderson has logged thousands of innings in CF at the MLB level. The Flores comparison is, for lack of a better word, stupid.
This isn't Daniel Murphy in LF.
I agree, and Ive long brought that up as a possibility. Would massively upgrade the offense. Going from Lagares's offense to Granderson?? lol. Granderson will still be 34 during the 2016 season. He isn't ancient. You could at least maybe do it once in a while. Not sure they would though.
It's not the most ideal thing but I don't see how it wouldn't make this team better. Lagares offensively to Granderson is a very, very large leap this season. The offensive upgrade would likely be enough to cancel out the defensive drop.
Id try it. You could still bring Lagares into the game around the 7th inning with a lead.
Quote:
If the Mets land a big outfield fish like Cespedes or Bruce Conforto is going down. As he should. See you when the rosters expand.
How are these guys big fish? They're basically league average corner outfielders.
Cespedes and Bruce are league average players?? WTF? Cespedes has a 3.3 WAR right now!
Quote:
In comment 12386122 Torrag said:
Quote:
If the Mets land a big outfield fish like Cespedes or Bruce Conforto is going down. As he should. See you when the rosters expand.
How are these guys big fish? They're basically league average corner outfielders.
Cespedes and Bruce are league average players?? WTF? Cespedes has a 3.3 WAR right now!
LOL.. yeah I was going to say. On what planet is Yoenis Cespedes a "league average" player right now?
Cespedes is having a ridiculous year.
Quote:
In comment 12386116 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Granderson has logged thousands of innings in CF at the MLB level. The Flores comparison is, for lack of a better word, stupid.
This isn't Daniel Murphy in LF.
Cool. He was also once a good athlete. He's hardly that now. The bottom line is you're playing a guy out of position at a crticical defensive position to add a guy like Bruce who is just barely cracking .800 OPS after a whopping .650 last year.
Why do I care about Jay Bruce's one crappy outlier year in 2014 again? It's 2015 and he's putting up numbers consistent with the rest of his career again.
Because its his most recent full season. And its not like numbers consistent with the rest of his career are that great so you've got a guy who's a risk (.650 last year) and his upside isn't even that good. And for that you're moving a guy who can't run very well to centerfield and giving up prospects. And adding yet another LH bat to a team starved for a RH bat. Sounds like a lateral move at best.
The good thing is even if he struggles some it doesn't mean he won't be more productive than Cuddyer been and he will only improve himself as he earns to adjust to what the pitchers do.
This can't be stressed enough. After reading some of these posts from yesterdays outburst you'd think some offensive juggernaut has sprouted from the earth. This team is still very offensively challenged and more moves should be made.
And his 2015 thus far should be proof of that.
Quote:
In comment 12386123 chris r said:
Quote:
In comment 12386122 Torrag said:
Quote:
If the Mets land a big outfield fish like Cespedes or Bruce Conforto is going down. As he should. See you when the rosters expand.
How are these guys big fish? They're basically league average corner outfielders.
Cespedes and Bruce are league average players?? WTF? Cespedes has a 3.3 WAR right now!
LOL.. yeah I was going to say. On what planet is Yoenis Cespedes a "league average" player right now?
I said league average corner OF. This is his first season (barely) over .800 since his rookie year and he's batting in an absolutely stacked lineup. He's a good bet to regress to his numbers from the past few years on the Mets.
I think Upton and Cespedes have switched from earlier in the season. Now Cespedes might be getting the huge deal and Upton might be able to be had for less(Obviously both are getting paid well over 100 million)
There's that too.
I just think prospects and defense for either of those two guys is a lateral move. They're not difference making bats IMO.
Them using the shift just proves they had no idea about him.
All professional pitchers will learn how to best approach individual hitters, then it is up to the hitter to adjust to that. When he gets past that process we will have a better idea of what we really have. I'm not saying that he won't, I really like him just pointing out he will likely have a period where he struggles some that's all.
I think Upton and Cespedes have switched from earlier in the season. Now Cespedes might be getting the huge deal and Upton might be able to be had for less(Obviously both are getting paid well over 100 million)
Look at his numbers. He's having his best year since his rookie year hitting in a great lineup and its not like he's even been great.
I kind of agree. We've added 2 solid players in an acquisition. We called up our first round pick who clearly is unfazed by the bright lights. We get TDA back this week. Players like Kirk, Duda, and Murphy might be coming out of it.
I think we'd all like to add another piece but I think its changed from YOU HAVE TO DO SOMETHING, to lets see what teams approach us with. Lets not forget there is pressure on teams to try to get some value for some of these rental guys especially.