and buy an extra day to decide how they want to deploy the standard IF alignment. I think ultimately they're going to move Murph back to 2nd the majority of the time and Uribe at 3B most of the time. But I guess we'll see.
Seems like there's a lot of smoke around Wheeler right now
My guess is they're dangling him out there hoping for a big name under contract beyond this season (like Gomez or maybe even Reddick or Blackmon). It's an interesting idea since we know he's not likely to help much this year or next. Really not much different than trading a prospect in AA, just one with a bigger name and a proven MLB track record. Sources: Mets have discussed Zack Wheeler in trade talks - ( New Window )
RE: Seems like there's a lot of smoke around Wheeler right now
My guess is they're dangling him out there hoping for a big name under contract beyond this season (like Gomez or maybe even Reddick or Blackmon). It's an interesting idea since we know he's not likely to help much this year or next. Really not much different than trading a prospect in AA, just one with a bigger name and a proven MLB track record. Sources: Mets have discussed Zack Wheeler in trade talks - ( New Window )
Laughed yesterday when it was made to sound like Mets were getting calls on Wheeler. Mets have brought his name up. It is literally the ultimate prospect trade for the Mets.
Like Eric said, somewhat proven. Bigger name than a prospect to appease fans (one fan base in particular). May be ready next summer, latest following spring. Lower risk than a typical prospect.
From Mets perspective he will cost more next year than a typical prospect. Can't count on him for next year. Of their starters, he is the best bang for the buck on the group you don't mind moving. And the biggest part is that unlike a traditional prospect, his MLB clock has been ticking away to are/free agency already...
Exactly Shecky - I think a trade around Wheeler and a CF capable OFer
makes a lot of sense. Reddick, Blackmon, Gomez - all would obviously have different 2nd/3rd pieces to match up appropriate values, but that type of move could work if there's a GM looking to say "we got 1 of their big pitchers".
Don't think I would give up Wheeler for Bruce or any of the rentals however.
With all the names out there and the willingness to deal several top 100 prospects & possibly Wheeler I think this might be that "game changing" moment he talked about in the book re: Cano.
Quote:
Here, according to sources, is where the Mets various pursuits stand: A push for Rockies shortstop Troy Tulowitzki left the Mets under the impression that Colorado did not want to trade him.
The Mets, however, also have looked into acquiring both super-utility man Ben Zobrist and reliever Tyler Clippard from the Athletics, a deal for Reds right fielder Jay Bruce and, according to CBS Sports Jon Heyman, a trade for Padres left fielder Justin Upton.
No deal appears close.
The Athletics, in fact, expect to receive better offers from other clubs for Zobrist and Clippard, most likely in separate trades.
The possibility of the Mets adding Bruce might also be gone the team discussed with the Reds an exchange of Bruce for right-hander Zack Wheeler, who is recovering from Tommy John surgery, but the talks apparently did not gain traction.
As for Upton, the Mets balked at the Padres request for at least one top prospect, and the Pads did not offer to pay any of the remaining portion of Uptons $14.5 million salary, according to CBS Sports.
The New York Daily News first reported that the Mets would consider trading Wheeler. Rival executives say the Mets are deep enough in prospects to make a significant move without including any of their other top young pitchers in a trade.
Terry Collins says he met with team and say they've been put "on notice" that it's perform or sit.
His may be the dumbest thing TC could have said to the team. Say it publicly, but to the team? Admit you managed the last several years differently?
And I don't want to hear the "what we're his options" from the excuse makers. If a guy is hitting "one fuckin seventy". You bench him, period. You find someone else who will hit "one fuckin sixty" and it has zero impact on the teams offense. Not an excuse.
full circle. Tejada is now the starting SS with Wilmer most likely getting relegated to the bench, or at least sporadic playing time. It's too bad, Flores was having a nice July.
It's Murphy that should be getting the rest, he's been hot garbage lately.
Terry Collins says he met with team and say they've been put "on notice" that it's perform or sit.
His may be the dumbest thing TC could have said to the team. Say it publicly, but to the team? Admit you managed the last several years differently?
And I don't want to hear the "what we're his options" from the excuse makers. If a guy is hitting "one fuckin seventy". You bench him, period. You find someone else who will hit "one fuckin sixty" and it has zero impact on the teams offense. Not an excuse.
kinda falls on deaf ears when he keeps trotting Murphy out there. Has been hitting like garbage, a butcher in the field, and doesn't hustle. I don't see him sitting much though.
Into buying Wheeler as a prospect, I'm thinking we see that move plus another big move together in a go for it mode. Best part is, no one from the core prospects or major league level were touched. Would be a Hail Mary miracle to pull off. combined with yesterday's depth move - would be as good a week as any in mets history. Damn near no chance of it happening, but you have to swing for the three move homerun here - HAVE TO.
RE: And everyone's nightmare has come to a complete
full circle. Tejada is now the starting SS with Wilmer most likely getting relegated to the bench, or at least sporadic playing time. It's too bad, Flores was having a nice July.
It's Murphy that should be getting the rest, he's been hot garbage lately.
If the team is serious enough that they are exploring Tulowitzki I can live with Tejada for a little bit, especially given how he's currently playing.
By the way, interesting little factoid to put yesterday's move in perspective:
2013 - 2015 WAR
Kelly Johnson - 2.0
Juan Uribe - 9.9
Michael Cuddyer - 3.9
And they didn't have to give up a 1st round pick!!
Into buying Wheeler as a prospect, I'm thinking we see that move plus another big move together in a go for it mode. Best part is, no one from the core prospects or major league level were touched. Would be a Hail Mary miracle to pull off. combined with yesterday's depth move - would be as good a week as any in mets history. Damn near no chance of it happening, but you have to swing for the three move homerun here - HAVE TO.
I think it's 1 in the same, not 2 moves. I think if it works they sell the other team on the package of a few of our prospects like Nimmo and the fact that Wheeler is like getting a top pitching prospect who is already proven at the MLB level. Nimmo + Wheeler for Gomez type of thing.
Into buying Wheeler as a prospect, I'm thinking we see that move plus another big move together in a go for it mode. Best part is, no one from the core prospects or major league level were touched. Would be a Hail Mary miracle to pull off. combined with yesterday's depth move - would be as good a week as any in mets history. Damn near no chance of it happening, but you have to swing for the three move homerun here - HAVE TO.
Who is the homerun? Upton? When he's a FA after the season? Tulo with all his baggage? Bogaerts? I'd love to see that happen, but a TJ recovering Wheeler doesn't get that done.
Not being a dick, I trust your opinion, just want a definition of a HR in your opinion.
to me, that's a homerun because you're dealing 2 guys who are unlikely to help much over the next 2 seasons due to injury for 1 guy who would immediately be our best every day player.
I think so, yes. I really like Wheeler but even if he comes back without any ill effects from TJS he might be the 5th or 6th best starter here. Plus keeping Fulmer, Montero, Meisner, Verrett in the pipeline, with their cheap years staggered from the current crop is a nice added bonus.
like a HR to me. I don't know, maybe it's the best they can do.
But it feels like trading a potential top of the rotation starter and an everyday ofer (worst case 4th Ofer) both under cost control for the foreseeable future for one-plus year of a 30-year old player on the decline.
maybe that's the kind of move that really is a HR when your offense is near the bottom and your pitching near the top to make you a contender, just feels lopsided.
and is easily still one of the top 2-3 CF'ers in the entire game. He's been a top 10 player each of the past 2 years.
Wheeler is a potential top of the rotation guy, but if you evaluate his place for this franchise, he's at best your 4th starter going forward. Niese and Matz could certainly have compelling arguments to push him down further depending on how the season ends. I'm not trying to minimize Wheeler's stuff & potential to be a top of the rotation starter just because we have depth, but unlike Thor, Harvey and JdG he has yet to perform that way in his career. Add in the inherent injury realities /risks, I'm not really sure how you'd be able to do better than getting a top player at a premium position at a fair price for 2 years.
but i'm starting to get extremely worried about whether or not he can handle making good decisions at critical moments. It's certainly not something he's gotten any practice at over the past few years (decades) and he self admittedly bungled the biggest game of the year to date. I'm hoping that Campbell comment is mostly lip service since he's the obvious man out when Cuddyer returns.
Not sure that's what it would take. Rockies are overflowing with OF and need pitching. Take out Nimmo and replace him with Fulmer. I think if a Tulo trade is ever consummated, there will be other fringe pieces from the Rockies coming with him. Also one thing helping is the loudest of the anti Tulo crowd is also the least often in attendance.
is a gamble I think worth making. again depends on the cost though, if they can add Tulo without losing the core pitchers or Conforto it's a no-brainer to me. I'd even take on Cargo's salary ($37M) if they take back Cuddyer and lesser prospects.
it would almost be like adding back Reyes, though instead of a leadoff hitter SS you'd get a cleanup hitter SS, with injury concerns.
Jon Morosi 20 minutes ago
If Tigers are willing to grant an extension window, that could have *huge* impact on package they receive for David Price.
Jon Morosi 21 minutes ago
#Tigers do not have policy against granting 48-hour windows for acquiring teams to negotiate contract extensions as part of trades.
Joe DeMayo @PSLToFlushing 6m6 minutes ago
Hearing #Mets were willing to offer the #Rockies a 4 player package for Tulowitzki+cash. Offer headed by Wheeler with "3 other good names"
I really think Wheeler is a very sensible asset to trade right now and I have a hard time believing another team out there has something more valuable than him they're willing to give up.
I wouldn't give him up for a rental and it remains to be seen if teams are willing to part with guys under contract like Reddick/Gomez/Tulo but I think Sandy is going for it hard.
and that is with Wheeler, the fact the Mets (in the probably bogus report) asked for cash, is why they have to throw in Nimmo or Herrera, but Flores is the guy to trade.
He better be the headliner and that's the end of it. We better not be giving up other huge prospects or pieces unless a freaking stud is coming back.
Still say its crazy selling Wheeler when his value is obviously diminished. Im fine with it if somebody is IN LOVE with him and wants to overpay, but I don't want to sell Wheeler off 10 cents on the dollar as part of a package with other huge players also.
just a deal you have to make. It turns the 2015 Mets, 2016 Mets and 2017 Mets into legit contenders (I don't like projecting anything beyond 3 years with injuries etc). Tulo is a great (injury prone) but great player. Would be similar to the Piazza move
just a deal you have to make. It turns the 2015 Mets, 2016 Mets and 2017 Mets into legit contenders (I don't like projecting anything beyond 3 years with injuries etc). Tulo is a great (injury prone) but great player. Would be similar to the Piazza move
Yup. Agreed entirely. Here are the 3 scenarios out there, and it's extremely encouraging to hear they are pursuing all 3:
1. Tulo - the most "Piazza-esque" move they could make.
2. Gomez/Reddick/Bruce - ideally they'd get a CF
3. Parra/Cespedes/Upton/Byrd - rental bat
I'd give up Wheeler for someone in category 1 or 2, not 3.
Tulo is in his 30s. He's had a million injuries which has clearly affected his game (defense is bad this year) and he has a wRC+ of 114(essentially Kelly Johnson)
Maybe as far as "name" but certainly not in stature.
and I still am a huge Flores supporter, but if Tejada is going to keep hitting fuck it. Go Tejada. Ill only complain again when and if he goes in the shitter.
and I still am a huge Flores supporter, but if Tejada is going to keep hitting fuck it. Go Tejada. Ill only complain again when and if he goes in the shitter.
Nice Murph.
He is still only 25, would be nice if he actually turned his career around to become the productive player he originally looked like his first couple of seasons.
Conforto stays on fire the next week? Do we not trade for an OF? I guess a Parra would still work but do you lay off the Byrds, Uptons, Cespedes, Reddicks completely?
Not only does the ump make an awful call that pisses off Plawecki but then he follows Plawecki as he walks back to the dugout after punching him out. What a dick.
Conforto stays on fire the next week? Do we not trade for an OF? I guess a Parra would still work but do you lay off the Byrds, Uptons, Cespedes, Reddicks completely?
Still look for someone who can play CF. We can't let one game throw us off too much. Let's be aggressive here and go for it. One more upgrade in CF, TdA coming back, Conforto in LF and KJ/Uribe and I think this team is going to field a very good offense.
It would be a big boost to beat Greinke and get a home split tommorrow. We'll see if the combo of Degrom and the revamped lineup will be up to the task.
On a side note we've gotten some pretty bad umpiring this week. Lots of screwy balls and strikes against both our hitters and pitchers.
One more run and they will equal their seasons best at 14
Conforto stays on fire the next week? Do we not trade for an OF? I guess a Parra would still work but do you lay off the Byrds, Uptons, Cespedes, Reddicks completely?
Still look for someone who can play CF. We can't let one game throw us off too much. Let's be aggressive here and go for it. One more upgrade in CF, TdA coming back, Conforto in LF and KJ/Uribe and I think this team is going to field a very good offense.
Let's go get Parra. Fuck it.
I agree. I still want Parra too. Would sting a little to cut kirk though now that he's on fire but you'd have to do it.
an inning here, an inning there, suddenly you've saved him seven innnings and bought him another playoff start down the road. If the game wasn't a complete laugher it's one thing. But it is.
Of course not. We'll use Mejia and save A. Torres for when it matters!
I would love nothing more than Alderson heading down to the dugout between innings to fire Collins. This is a seriously fire able offense. An extra inning of Harvey, then Mejia, then BP????
Of course not. We'll use Mejia and save A. Torres for when it matters!
I would love nothing more than Alderson heading down to the dugout between innings to fire Collins. This is a seriously fire able offense. An extra inning of Harvey, then Mejia, then BP????
Lol. If it wasn't so predictable Id be upset. His decision making is absurd. Ill give him credit for clubhouse stuff but his in game management is terrible.
Earlier with his "you have to earn your playing time moving forward.
Then states Campbell will start at 1b against lefties.
Two idiotic comments molded into one equals the players are laughing at him...
I pretty much feel the same way. And I fear in an actual playoff chase with the heat turned up even further his mistakes are going to be magnified even more. I hope he doesn't cost us in a huge game.
He missed all season to date. Has only pitched about five innings since back and hasn't pitched in three days. So not pitching him tonight because of a history of arm trouble shouldn't even be a consideration if they believe he would benefit for getting in an inning tonight.
He missed all season to date. Has only pitched about five innings since back and hasn't pitched in three days. So not pitching him tonight because of a history of arm trouble shouldn't even be a consideration if they believe he would benefit for getting in an inning tonight.
A lot about nothing.
Steve he's immediately our second best reliever. Relievers can't pitch multiple days in a row sometimes and we might need him tomorrow. I think thats the point. How do you defend Familia now? Ugh.
He missed all season to date. Has only pitched about five innings since back and hasn't pitched in three days. So not pitching him tonight because of a history of arm trouble shouldn't even be a consideration if they believe he would benefit for getting in an inning tonight.
A lot about nothing.
Steve he's immediately our second best reliever. Relievers can't pitch multiple days in a row sometimes and we might need him tomorrow. I think thats the point. How do you defend Familia now? Ugh.
They also need consistent work. As Keith and Gary just mentioned Familia hasn't pitched since Tuesday and needs the work.
He missed all season to date. Has only pitched about five innings since back and hasn't pitched in three days. So not pitching him tonight because of a history of arm trouble shouldn't even be a consideration if they believe he would benefit for getting in an inning tonight.
A lot about nothing.
Steve, I don't want to be a dick because a) I respect you here b) I've had a few too many. BUT just trust me - mejia's fitness and workload to date is absolutely not an issue. "5 innings ytd" mean absolutely nothing for him.
Again, "they need the work" bullshit line that will get used. Well, simple. Give them the fuckin workload tomorrow. Then if you actually need them, they are fresh. And if you don't, then you limit DeGrom to six innings and extend him for the playoff push.
I'll stop, because there is no need to argue for any of us. His handling of the pitchers the last three innings were nothing but moronic and indefensible.
this before, August is particularly easy, so they have a chance to catch up. 9 games left against the Nats with 6 of them at home. They can't dwell on the past series, they have to think they can get them when they face them again.
Uribe and Johnson gives Collins options to rest guys and play match ups better. Muno was doing squat and Mayberry didnt have a good year. That's who they replaced.
still want to see them continue adding pieces if the price is right. Beat Greinke tomorrow and keep some momentum going vs. the Pads and things are going to get really interesting.
Imagine next Friday - TdA back, maybe another piece added via trade, Harvey/JdG/Thor scheduled to pitch. Citi will be rocking.
It's definitely not completely "ok" yet, but adding the 2 guys they added yesterday is probably already beyond what most of us were realistically expecting. TdA starting his rehab, Duda showing a pulse and Conforto going 4-4, I mean that's more half a new lineup. Pretty soon we may not have anyone on the roster hitting under .200.
It's definitely not completely "ok" yet, but adding the 2 guys they added yesterday is probably already beyond what most of us were realistically expecting. TdA starting his rehab, Duda showing a pulse and Conforto going 4-4, I mean that's more half a new lineup. Pretty soon we may not have anyone on the roster hitting under .200.
Im trying to keep it in perspective here but your right. We just added 3 new hitters to our lineup in the last 24 hours and they are all hitting already. TDA is playing in Bing tonight. Our GM told us today he is still big game fishing and we are a week from the deadline. Wright is supposed to start baseball activities this week. Thats a world wind of good news after months of injuries and disappointment. All that and I didn't even mention Duda, Murphy, Kirk, and others might seriously be coming out of it finally. One day at a time but Im feeling pretty good right now.
next weekend is another huge series. Nats come to town.
That Nats series is coming at the perfect time. Friday is the deadline and TDA is expected back around Friday. We could go into that series really ready for war.
can we please stay healthy from now until the end of the season. Haven't we fulfilled our quota?? PLEASE!
Injuries are going to happen, key is depth. Having a guy like Kelly Johnson who can step in anywhere to go with talented guys who can step in like Flores, Plawecki, and Verrett is as important as anything else. Depth is looking good, now the question is if they need another impact hitter. If Duda is back, TdA stays healthy, and Granderson doesn't slump they may be ok as is, but that's a lot of ifs so I'd feel a whole lot more comfortable with 1 more impact guy.
right now if Conforto is going to be able to be a solid major league player this early. If he is then there's your OF that none of us were really expecting. Im trying not to get carried away but if he is a starter, I completely change my mind on things.
I then really only see SS as a weakness and even Tejada/Flores isn't terrible.
Shit maybe you do go big for Tulo. I don't know. The whole thought of Tulo makes me too nervous for words. lol
Tulo is the game changing move, that's why Sandy has checked in twice
Sure, his health is scary, but his contract at this point is almost a steal. And also, we'd likely hang on to 2 of Rosario/Cecchini/Reynolds and at least 1 of Flores/Tejada, meaning we'd be pretty well equipped to handle resting him/a few trips to the DL over the next few seasons.
In the OF Kirk & Conforto are both definitely making things less urgent. But if there's a chance to get an impact player like Gomez or a rental like Cespedes cheaper than expected you have to do it. Need to do everything we can to get these pitchers to the post season.
I'd be shocked if Conforto isn't at least solid the rest of the year
And yes I know Tulo has better numbers but he also plays at Coors. You can't ignore that as we found out with Cuddyer.
My point, though, is The Mets traded Beltran for Wheeler Straight up. At that time Wheeler was having a meh year at A ball.
Now it takes Wheeler + 3 other prospects? Just don't see it. Tulo goes down, Mets are f--ked royally. No Cecchini and no money to sign anyone else. mets fans will be begging to get Tejada back. It's a huge gamble. And to me the reward I'd just not worth the risk
Now if they would take Fulmer, Flores and Dom smith, I'd do it. But I doubt that gets it done
And yes I know Tulo has better numbers but he also plays at Coors. You can't ignore that as we found out with Cuddyer.
My point, though, is The Mets traded Beltran for Wheeler Straight up. At that time Wheeler was having a meh year at A ball.
Now it takes Wheeler + 3 other prospects? Just don't see it. Tulo goes down, Mets are f--ked royally. No Cecchini and no money to sign anyone else. mets fans will be begging to get Tejada back. It's a huge gamble. And to me the reward I'd just not worth the risk
Now if they would take Fulmer, Flores and Dom smith, I'd do it. But I doubt that gets it done
Beltran was a playoff rental in the OF position. A SS signed long term is not apples to apples.
Beltran was 34 and far from the face of the franchise
at that point. Sounds like the Rockies aren't looking to dump Tulo right now, so who knows what it would take. They've always seemed somewhat irrational. Also I don't know that Wheeler's value is exponentially higher or lower right now. He made his debut for the Mets about 24 months after they acquired him for Beltran. For any team trading for him now it's going to be at least 12 months before he pitches in a game for them, and when he gets back there's obviously some question as far as what to expect. Plus he's 4 years closer to getting paid. Obviously he's had more success in the majors than any current prospect and has more name recognition for fans/opposing GMs. Tulo for Wheeler plus a couple non-premium pieces (Flores, Nimmo, Montero types) is pretty fair IMO, especially if there's significant $ coming back as well.
It's an insanely complicated deal obviously, so more than likely doesn't happen. But one of those trades that certainly should happen for both clubs. Simple breakdown:
For the Rockies. Obviously trading Tulo is like the Mets trading Wright. No one wants it to happen, but it's best. They need pitching as usual. Lots of free agent top end pitching, but they know they can't talk someone into how great their school system is again. They ideally wait till the offseason to see what, if any pitching, they can sign. Sign none, trade Tulo. That's their ideal scenario. Realistically, they need to trade for an ace.
Now, of all teams in the league who is willing to trade a controllable ace? Out of those zero teams, how many are looking to acquire a Tulo and his contract as well? Zero + zero = the Mets... Literally the only team in the league that matches up here. Rockies need a replacement SS, 1B and a catcher as well. They are set in the Of and 3b.
And vice versa - which team can the Mets match up that needs young pitching and has offense to spare. Cubs and Rockies? Rockies have a SS to move and ridiculous amount of Of depth. Are the Mets willing to move a big arm for a hitter? Have the Mets decided which catcher they will grow with? Which young SS's are untouchable? Are they willing to move Duda?
Long story short, there is a ton of potential for moves for both teams. But it's complex, so it probably doesn't happen. Though there is no reason on both sides for it not to happen. Reality says its best to happen in the offseason when they mets will be ready to move one of the catchers. When they can more easily replace Duda. When the Rockies realize they can't acquire an ace. When Wheeler has already thrown and is closer to a return.
Tulo obviously. Dickerson first, Dahl second (of), McMahon (blocked 3b prospect), and Tapia (of). Then some fringe players to be nameless
I'd be willing to move: Wheeler or (Montero &Fulmer). TdA. Duda. Nimmo - but unlikely they have any desire for him... Flores. Rosario. These are guys I think would all flourish in Colorado.
The one thing that might get overlooked is the GM's didn't start working on these trades last week. They talked during the Winter meetings and probably before that. They have been scouting potential targets all season long in the bigs and the minors. These deals don't just happen, there is more sense of urgency to get them done because there is a hard and fast deadline. One thing not to be overlooked from last night and I believe it is huge going forward was Matt Harvey's slider. He got the late hard bite back
Grandy, Murphy/Herrera, Tulo, Duda, Dickerson, Conforto/Cuddyer, Plawecki, uribe. <-- that is one tough lineup for a starting pitcher to contend with. A LOT. Of professional ABs up and down the lineup. IF, big if, but if Wright fights through for a playoff run, even better.
Harvey, DeGrom, Thor, Matz/Niese. Colon resorts to long man, end games with Robles, Parnell and Familia. Not a bad playoff pitching team.
Then you tweak it in the offseason and put the finishing touches on this roster.
Anthony DiComo @AnthonyDiComo
.@MarcCarig says #Mets are looking coyly at Yoenis Cespedes, too. One name I keep hearing is Jay Bruce...Mets are scouting him heavily.
Anthony DiComo @AnthonyDiComo
.@MarcCarig says #Mets are looking coyly at Yoenis Cespedes, too. One name I keep hearing is Jay Bruce...Mets are scouting him heavily.
Only problem with a Cespedes trade is you greatly reduce the odds of resigning him. Virtually a lock he is a rental. Bruce would be an outstanding trade!
Man, what a crazy deadline. Not sure if it's that we haven't been buyers over the past few years or what, but there seem to be a TON of good names out there on the market. Way more than at the last few winter meetings even.
he's just not a CFer, so are you moving Grandy to CF?
Putting Bruce out of position?
Where does Bruce fit?
I think you need to either acquire a CF or SS to make a trade compelling or include the player at the position your trading.
PJ,
Gomez is the only "big" CF available so your options are limited unless you want to add a lesser player. If the Mets are interested in Bruce/Cespedes it leads me to believe they are considering Granderson in CF, even part time.
Both good fielders who have spent some time there. But generally speaking that's why I'd rather spend more on Gomez/Tulo since they can be long term fixtures at positions that are weak right now.
Cespedes, Bruce, or any other CO you just send Conforto down. It probably wouldn't be the worst thing. Lets be serious. Conforto likely isn't giving us Cespedes/Bruce production for the rest of the season. It wold still be a big upgrade.
We have this discussion on MMO a lot and its real interesting to me. Essentially whenever anyone comes up with a trade proposal it is littered with personal bias regarding the players we "like".
Shecky has long been a Plawecki backer so most of his trade scenarios couldl involve TDA leaving.
Eric has long liked the idea of Flores at second so he might suggest trading Herrera, because he is a "threat" to that.
I might have gotten excited with what Cecchini is doing so now my trade proposals involve Rosario. lol
The major upgrade comes if you add a bat and keep Conforto HERE. If you add a bat and send him back down, you're almost canceling eachother out and not really improving the team.
I would much rather see Granderson in CF, Conforto in LF and Bruce/Cespedes/Reddick in RF than one of those 3 in LF with Lagares in CF and Granderson in RF.
Conforto is 100% ready to be here now. He should never see the minors again.
of trading a couple of their top trading chips and also keeping their core young pitching staff intact. I would prefer they don't use up their resources trading for an often injured, aging Tulo who's past stats have been inflated playing in Colorado.
Don't panic and build with youth around this young staff and this team has a chance of being set up for a nice long run these coming years.
I realize the defensive downgrade you employ by swapping Lagares out for Granderson in CF but if you use Lagares as a 4th OF/defensive replacement it could still work. The offense would be upgraded massively. We could always shuffle around a little too.
All of a sudden we would have an excellent bench, too. That team would be good enough to contend with TdA back in the mix.
would make Flores at SS look like Ordonez. Enough with playing guys out of position in key defensive positions. Especially for solid but not great corner outfield bats like the ones proposed.
will never see the Minor Leagues outside of a rehab assignment. Are you serious?
I mean if your convinced Conforto is going to give us Cespedes/Bruce production for the rest of the year after one game great! All those players are out then. We are set.
Granderson has logged thousands of innings in CF at the MLB level. The Flores comparison is, for lack of a better word, stupid.
This isn't Daniel Murphy in LF.
I agree, and Ive long brought that up as a possibility. Would massively upgrade the offense. Going from Lagares's offense to Granderson?? lol. Granderson will still be 34 during the 2016 season. He isn't ancient. You could at least maybe do it once in a while. Not sure they would though.
Then this is the lineup we have to try and make the postseason with. There's little to gain by adding a Cespedes or Bruce type player if we're just sending Conforto right back down.
Don't let the game yesterday delude you into thinking we have an above average offense. We still need more help.
Parra would be my ideal add because he can play a good enough CF.
There's just no way I am sending Conforto back down now.
Granderson has logged thousands of innings in CF at the MLB level. The Flores comparison is, for lack of a better word, stupid.
This isn't Daniel Murphy in LF.
Cool. He was also once a good athlete. He's hardly that now. The bottom line is you're playing a guy out of position at a crticical defensive position to add a guy like Bruce who is just barely cracking .800 OPS after a whopping .650 last year.
Granderson has logged thousands of innings in CF at the MLB level. The Flores comparison is, for lack of a better word, stupid.
This isn't Daniel Murphy in LF.
I agree, and Ive long brought that up as a possibility. Would massively upgrade the offense. Going from Lagares's offense to Granderson?? lol. Granderson will still be 34 during the 2016 season. He isn't ancient. You could at least maybe do it once in a while. Not sure they would though.
It's not the most ideal thing but I don't see how it wouldn't make this team better. Lagares offensively to Granderson is a very, very large leap this season. The offensive upgrade would likely be enough to cancel out the defensive drop.
down the line we know that the Mets won't be able to afford all their young starters. What is exciting to me is knowing that each one if healthy in say 3 years could bring back a King's ransom. The Mets will not suck again because they will be getting value for each pitcher they eventually trade. By value I mean studs.
Granderson has logged thousands of innings in CF at the MLB level. The Flores comparison is, for lack of a better word, stupid.
This isn't Daniel Murphy in LF.
Cool. He was also once a good athlete. He's hardly that now. The bottom line is you're playing a guy out of position at a crticical defensive position to add a guy like Bruce who is just barely cracking .800 OPS after a whopping .650 last year.
Why do I care about Jay Bruce's one crappy outlier year in 2014 again? It's 2015 and he's putting up numbers consistent with the rest of his career again.
If Conforto is a starter and let's say Kirk is back to "2014 Kirk". The OF might not need help. Kirk had a wRC+ of 130 last year! He also plays a great CF. Starters are Conforto-Lagares/Kirk-Granderson. Backups Cuddyer-Johnson. That actually looks like a pretty balanced outfield but its predicated on two guys we need to see more from.
Dan mentioned the other day(he's no Kirk fan) that he likely gives you Venable production in CF and that was before his 4-4 night. I tend to agree.
Granderson has logged thousands of innings in CF at the MLB level. The Flores comparison is, for lack of a better word, stupid.
This isn't Daniel Murphy in LF.
I agree, and Ive long brought that up as a possibility. Would massively upgrade the offense. Going from Lagares's offense to Granderson?? lol. Granderson will still be 34 during the 2016 season. He isn't ancient. You could at least maybe do it once in a while. Not sure they would though.
It's not the most ideal thing but I don't see how it wouldn't make this team better. Lagares offensively to Granderson is a very, very large leap this season. The offensive upgrade would likely be enough to cancel out the defensive drop.
Id try it. You could still bring Lagares into the game around the 7th inning with a lead.
but I think SA has the upper hand going to next Saturday. The conversation has changed the last 48 from" DO SOMETHING!", to go for it but don't give away the farm
Granderson has logged thousands of innings in CF at the MLB level. The Flores comparison is, for lack of a better word, stupid.
This isn't Daniel Murphy in LF.
Cool. He was also once a good athlete. He's hardly that now. The bottom line is you're playing a guy out of position at a crticical defensive position to add a guy like Bruce who is just barely cracking .800 OPS after a whopping .650 last year.
Why do I care about Jay Bruce's one crappy outlier year in 2014 again? It's 2015 and he's putting up numbers consistent with the rest of his career again.
Because its his most recent full season. And its not like numbers consistent with the rest of his career are that great so you've got a guy who's a risk (.650 last year) and his upside isn't even that good. And for that you're moving a guy who can't run very well to centerfield and giving up prospects. And adding yet another LH bat to a team starved for a RH bat. Sounds like a lateral move at best.
It is exciting to see his potential playing out however you have to assume that once the pitchers get to see him more they will learn more about how to better pitch him and he will struggle some. He has a big advantage now having made the jump from AA because they don't know much about him, look at the shift the Dodgers played on him for proof of that. It is likely other teams have little to no scouting reports on him.
The good thing is even if he struggles some it doesn't mean he won't be more productive than Cuddyer been and he will only improve himself as he earns to adjust to what the pitchers do.
Don't let the game yesterday delude you into thinking we have an above average offense. We still need more help.
This can't be stressed enough. After reading some of these posts from yesterdays outburst you'd think some offensive juggernaut has sprouted from the earth. This team is still very offensively challenged and more moves should be made.
Bruce is 28 years old. Maybe I'd buy it if he was 35 but he's right back to the player he was prior to 2014 where he finished 10th in NL MVP voting twice. He also missed like 25 games last year. He was obviously not right. All you have to do is look at his career numbers and play "which one of these things doesn't belong". It's 2014.
And his 2015 thus far should be proof of that.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Please stop with the Conforto savior crap
If the Mets land a big outfield fish like Cespedes or Bruce Conforto is going down. As he should. See you when the rosters expand.
How are these guys big fish? They're basically league average corner outfielders.
Cespedes and Bruce are league average players?? WTF? Cespedes has a 3.3 WAR right now!
LOL.. yeah I was going to say. On what planet is Yoenis Cespedes a "league average" player right now?
I said league average corner OF. This is his first season (barely) over .800 since his rookie year and he's batting in an absolutely stacked lineup. He's a good bet to regress to his numbers from the past few years on the Mets.
The Dodgers put on a shift in his 4th AB and he went to LF with a ball away. When you have his balance, knowledge of the strike zone, batting eye and sweet swing, there aren't many if any any holes for pitchers to exploit. I believe once he gets to know the League, advantage Conforto
The guy it basically a .250 hitter who's power numbers have been inflated by having played in Cincinnati. I have been to that stadium and it is a bandbox.
in regards to Cespedes. He's hitting for average, power, and playing a great RF. He's also just coming into his prime.
I think Upton and Cespedes have switched from earlier in the season. Now Cespedes might be getting the huge deal and Upton might be able to be had for less(Obviously both are getting paid well over 100 million)
The guy it basically a .250 hitter who's power numbers have been inflated by having played in Cincinnati. I have been to that stadium and it is a bandbox.
There's that too.
I just think prospects and defense for either of those two guys is a lateral move. They're not difference making bats IMO.
RE: Not too worried the pitchers will get to know him
The Dodgers put on a shift in his 4th AB and he went to LF with a ball away. When you have his balance, knowledge of the strike zone, batting eye and sweet swing, there aren't many if any any holes for pitchers to exploit. I believe once he gets to know the League, advantage Conforto
Them using the shift just proves they had no idea about him.
All professional pitchers will learn how to best approach individual hitters, then it is up to the hitter to adjust to that. When he gets past that process we will have a better idea of what we really have. I'm not saying that he won't, I really like him just pointing out he will likely have a period where he struggles some that's all.
in regards to Cespedes. He's hitting for average, power, and playing a great RF. He's also just coming into his prime.
I think Upton and Cespedes have switched from earlier in the season. Now Cespedes might be getting the huge deal and Upton might be able to be had for less(Obviously both are getting paid well over 100 million)
Look at his numbers. He's having his best year since his rookie year hitting in a great lineup and its not like he's even been great.
but I think SA has the upper hand going to next Saturday. The conversation has changed the last 48 from" DO SOMETHING!", to go for it but don't give away the farm
I kind of agree. We've added 2 solid players in an acquisition. We called up our first round pick who clearly is unfazed by the bright lights. We get TDA back this week. Players like Kirk, Duda, and Murphy might be coming out of it.
I think we'd all like to add another piece but I think its changed from YOU HAVE TO DO SOMETHING, to lets see what teams approach us with. Lets not forget there is pressure on teams to try to get some value for some of these rental guys especially.
Granderson RF
Tejada SS
Murphy 3B
Johnson 2B
Duda 1B
Conforto LF
Kirk CF
Plawecki C
Harvey
Sources: Mets have discussed Zack Wheeler in trade talks - ( New Window )
Laughed yesterday when it was made to sound like Mets were getting calls on Wheeler. Mets have brought his name up. It is literally the ultimate prospect trade for the Mets.
Like Eric said, somewhat proven. Bigger name than a prospect to appease fans (one fan base in particular). May be ready next summer, latest following spring. Lower risk than a typical prospect.
From Mets perspective he will cost more next year than a typical prospect. Can't count on him for next year. Of their starters, he is the best bang for the buck on the group you don't mind moving. And the biggest part is that unlike a traditional prospect, his MLB clock has been ticking away to are/free agency already...
Don't think I would give up Wheeler for Bruce or any of the rentals however.
Terry Collins said Justin Turner endorsed Juan Uribe's clubhouse presence.
Terry Collins says he met with team and say they've been put "on notice" that it's perform or sit.
At first, if Wilmer plays SS, it would probably only be on day that Ruben needs off. Tejada will get day off soon.
Ruben Tejada probably remains the primary shortstop, but Wilmer may see time there. If slump, things can get shaken up.
Terry Collins says whomever is performing will play. If Juan Uribe starts at 3B a day, Murph may start at 2B. Flo may see time at SS too.
Here, according to sources, is where the Mets various pursuits stand:
A push for Rockies shortstop Troy Tulowitzki left the Mets under the impression that Colorado did not want to trade him.
The Mets, however, also have looked into acquiring both super-utility man Ben Zobrist and reliever Tyler Clippard from the Athletics, a deal for Reds right fielder Jay Bruce and, according to CBS Sports Jon Heyman, a trade for Padres left fielder Justin Upton.
No deal appears close.
The Athletics, in fact, expect to receive better offers from other clubs for Zobrist and Clippard, most likely in separate trades.
The possibility of the Mets adding Bruce might also be gone the team discussed with the Reds an exchange of Bruce for right-hander Zack Wheeler, who is recovering from Tommy John surgery, but the talks apparently did not gain traction.
As for Upton, the Mets balked at the Padres request for at least one top prospect, and the Pads did not offer to pay any of the remaining portion of Uptons $14.5 million salary, according to CBS Sports.
The New York Daily News first reported that the Mets would consider trading Wheeler. Rival executives say the Mets are deep enough in prospects to make a significant move without including any of their other top young pitchers in a trade.
Mets still have their eyes on some potential big-time acquisitions - ( New Window )
His may be the dumbest thing TC could have said to the team. Say it publicly, but to the team? Admit you managed the last several years differently?
And I don't want to hear the "what we're his options" from the excuse makers. If a guy is hitting "one fuckin seventy". You bench him, period. You find someone else who will hit "one fuckin sixty" and it has zero impact on the teams offense. Not an excuse.
It's Murphy that should be getting the rest, he's been hot garbage lately.
Sandy Alderson says he's exploring "big" moves but no guarantee something comes to fruition. #mets
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Terry Collins says he met with team and say they've been put "on notice" that it's perform or sit.
His may be the dumbest thing TC could have said to the team. Say it publicly, but to the team? Admit you managed the last several years differently?
And I don't want to hear the "what we're his options" from the excuse makers. If a guy is hitting "one fuckin seventy". You bench him, period. You find someone else who will hit "one fuckin sixty" and it has zero impact on the teams offense. Not an excuse.
kinda falls on deaf ears when he keeps trotting Murphy out there. Has been hitting like garbage, a butcher in the field, and doesn't hustle. I don't see him sitting much though.
It's Murphy that should be getting the rest, he's been hot garbage lately.
If the team is serious enough that they are exploring Tulowitzki I can live with Tejada for a little bit, especially given how he's currently playing.
By the way, interesting little factoid to put yesterday's move in perspective:
2013 - 2015 WAR
Kelly Johnson - 2.0
Juan Uribe - 9.9
Michael Cuddyer - 3.9
And they didn't have to give up a 1st round pick!!
I think it's 1 in the same, not 2 moves. I think if it works they sell the other team on the package of a few of our prospects like Nimmo and the fact that Wheeler is like getting a top pitching prospect who is already proven at the MLB level. Nimmo + Wheeler for Gomez type of thing.
Who is the homerun? Upton? When he's a FA after the season? Tulo with all his baggage? Bogaerts? I'd love to see that happen, but a TJ recovering Wheeler doesn't get that done.
Not being a dick, I trust your opinion, just want a definition of a HR in your opinion.
I think so, yes. I really like Wheeler but even if he comes back without any ill effects from TJS he might be the 5th or 6th best starter here. Plus keeping Fulmer, Montero, Meisner, Verrett in the pipeline, with their cheap years staggered from the current crop is a nice added bonus.
But it feels like trading a potential top of the rotation starter and an everyday ofer (worst case 4th Ofer) both under cost control for the foreseeable future for one-plus year of a 30-year old player on the decline.
maybe that's the kind of move that really is a HR when your offense is near the bottom and your pitching near the top to make you a contender, just feels lopsided.
Wheeler is a potential top of the rotation guy, but if you evaluate his place for this franchise, he's at best your 4th starter going forward. Niese and Matz could certainly have compelling arguments to push him down further depending on how the season ends. I'm not trying to minimize Wheeler's stuff & potential to be a top of the rotation starter just because we have depth, but unlike Thor, Harvey and JdG he has yet to perform that way in his career. Add in the inherent injury realities /risks, I'm not really sure how you'd be able to do better than getting a top player at a premium position at a fair price for 2 years.
Against a tough lefty if Lucas Duda sat, Eric Campbell now the primary righty-hitting 1B with Cuddyer on DL and Mayberry gone, TC says.
Against a tough lefty if Lucas Duda sat, Eric Campbell now the primary righty-hitting 1B with Cuddyer on DL and Mayberry gone, TC says.
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
"put on notice" - perform or you don't play
Hey, Campbell. You're starting at 1B...
Is he fuckin serious? This was all said from the same guy? On the same day?
:)
In comment 12384880 Shecky said:
Not sure that's what it would take. Rockies are overflowing with OF and need pitching. Take out Nimmo and replace him with Fulmer. I think if a Tulo trade is ever consummated, there will be other fringe pieces from the Rockies coming with him. Also one thing helping is the loudest of the anti Tulo crowd is also the least often in attendance.
it would almost be like adding back Reyes, though instead of a leadoff hitter SS you'd get a cleanup hitter SS, with injury concerns.
If Tigers are willing to grant an extension window, that could have *huge* impact on package they receive for David Price.
Jon Morosi 21 minutes ago
#Tigers do not have policy against granting 48-hour windows for acquiring teams to negotiate contract extensions as part of trades.
Right now 3 back in the division and WC races
I'm predicting some runs for tonight. At least 5
His return is getting closer and closer!
but I wonder who the other names were and whoever else was coming back.
Hearing #Mets were willing to offer the #Rockies a 4 player package for Tulowitzki+cash. Offer headed by Wheeler with "3 other good names"
Hearing #Mets were willing to offer the #Rockies a 4 player package for Tulowitzki+cash. Offer headed by Wheeler with "3 other good names"
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if it's affordable.
1 was a pitcher (Montero or Fulmer)
1 more position player (Nimmo, Herrera or Flores)
1 was a pitcher (Montero or Fulmer)
1 more position player (Nimmo, Herrera or Flores)
In ONE second for me.
I wouldn't give him up for a rental and it remains to be seen if teams are willing to part with guys under contract like Reddick/Gomez/Tulo but I think Sandy is going for it hard.
and that is with Wheeler, the fact the Mets (in the probably bogus report) asked for cash, is why they have to throw in Nimmo or Herrera, but Flores is the guy to trade.
Still say its crazy selling Wheeler when his value is obviously diminished. Im fine with it if somebody is IN LOVE with him and wants to overpay, but I don't want to sell Wheeler off 10 cents on the dollar as part of a package with other huge players also.
It's a huge risk banking on Tulo yet makes the team watchable for at least a few years. Might be worth the injury risk and 50/50 I would want it.
It's a huge risk banking on Tulo yet makes the team watchable for at least a few years. Might be worth the injury risk and 50/50 I would want it.
not necessarily they can see that his contract is very reasonable compared to other impact hitters in free agency this year will receive
Is good hitting is as contagious as bad hitting?
Yup. Agreed entirely. Here are the 3 scenarios out there, and it's extremely encouraging to hear they are pursuing all 3:
1. Tulo - the most "Piazza-esque" move they could make.
2. Gomez/Reddick/Bruce - ideally they'd get a CF
3. Parra/Cespedes/Upton/Byrd - rental bat
I'd give up Wheeler for someone in category 1 or 2, not 3.
Good hitting is contagious, and I guarantee the guys in the lockerroom were just as excited to see a pulse from the FO as we were.
Quote:
Been a long time coming...feels good.
Good hitting is contagious, and I guarantee the guys in the lockerroom were just as excited to see a pulse from the FO as we were.
Agreed. I think Greinke's streak is snapped tomorrow.
Tulo is in his 30s. He's had a million injuries which has clearly affected his game (defense is bad this year) and he has a wRC+ of 114(essentially Kelly Johnson)
Maybe as far as "name" but certainly not in stature.
Good. Call him up now.
Quote:
1-1
Good. Call him up now.
I hope he makes it back for the Nats series in Queens
Mets have a scout at Reds-Rockies game, per @m_sheldon.
Mets have a scout at Reds-Rockies game, per @m_sheldon.
Two nights in a row!
Conforto looks real good.
Mets have a scout at Reds-Rockies game, per @m_sheldon.
Adam Rubin
Adam Rubin retweeted Manny Dotel
Both!!! Adam Rubin added,
Manny Dotel @Manuel_Dotel
@AdamRubinESPN jay Bruce? Tulo? Or both?
Travis d'Arnaud went 1-for-3 and caught 5 innings for Double-A Binghamton as his rehab assignment officially began. #mets
Here they come again.
Does Johnson play any 1B? If so, bench Duda's ass and put him there.
Conforto is playing every day
Does Johnson play any 1B? If so, bench Duda's ass and put him there.
He's had 56 ABs this year as a 1st baseman, per ESPN
Yeah I think thats the best bet assuming Cuddyer is back in two weeks.
It isn't even Sunday
I hope they play with a chip on their shoulder from now on.
Why is that? Because he played Kelly Johnson tonight? Because the players decided to hit? Genius is pushing it, don't you think?
Adam Rubin
Remember when the Mets commissioned St. Patrick's Day hats using Justin Turner as model?
Quote:
is looking like a genius again tonight
Why is that? Because he played Kelly Johnson tonight? Because the players decided to hit? Genius is pushing it, don't you think?
sarcasm.
Nice Murph.
Quote:
In comment 12385625 spike said:
Quote:
is looking like a genius again tonight
Why is that? Because he played Kelly Johnson tonight? Because the players decided to hit? Genius is pushing it, don't you think?
sarcasm.
Got it. My bad.
1998
Nice Murph.
He is still only 25, would be nice if he actually turned his career around to become the productive player he originally looked like his first couple of seasons.
Quote:
we had double digit runs??
1998
lmao
Move the kid up to the 3 hole!
I don't think they encouraged him to do anything.
Until Citifield......and the dimension change. that got in his head and then in the press, etc.
I don't think they encouraged him to do anything.
Until Citifield......and the dimension change. that got in his head and then in the press, etc.
You're probably right. I remember listening to an interview with DW years ago where something he said always gave me that impression, but who knows.
Still look for someone who can play CF. We can't let one game throw us off too much. Let's be aggressive here and go for it. One more upgrade in CF, TdA coming back, Conforto in LF and KJ/Uribe and I think this team is going to field a very good offense.
Let's go get Parra. Fuck it.
It would be a big boost to beat Greinke and get a home split tommorrow. We'll see if the combo of Degrom and the revamped lineup will be up to the task.
On a side note we've gotten some pretty bad umpiring this week. Lots of screwy balls and strikes against both our hitters and pitchers.
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Conforto stays on fire the next week? Do we not trade for an OF? I guess a Parra would still work but do you lay off the Byrds, Uptons, Cespedes, Reddicks completely?
Still look for someone who can play CF. We can't let one game throw us off too much. Let's be aggressive here and go for it. One more upgrade in CF, TdA coming back, Conforto in LF and KJ/Uribe and I think this team is going to field a very good offense.
Let's go get Parra. Fuck it.
I agree. I still want Parra too. Would sting a little to cut kirk though now that he's on fire but you'd have to do it.
Seriously. You even just called up Verrett for three days. lol
Yeah rookie mistake, he'll remember next time.
If he does well, he can be yet another trade chip.
We've been needing offense for the past week..
NL Beware!
Probably just helps taking some pressure off the guys. They have been pressing and trying to hard
Quote:
didnt know Uribe and Johnson meant that much
Probably just helps taking some pressure off the guys. They have been pressing and trying to hard
especially Duda.
If we score even 2-3 runs against him it will be like the 15 in this one. ;)
Alex Torres? Verrett?
And there's a Heart concert postgame too!
Alex Torres? Verrett?
Of course not. We'll use Mejia and save A. Torres for when it matters!
Quote:
8th and 9th?
Alex Torres? Verrett?
Of course not. We'll use Mejia and save A. Torres for when it matters!
I would love nothing more than Alderson heading down to the dugout between innings to fire Collins. This is a seriously fire able offense. An extra inning of Harvey, then Mejia, then BP????
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In comment 12385739 spike said:
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8th and 9th?
Alex Torres? Verrett?
Of course not. We'll use Mejia and save A. Torres for when it matters!
I would love nothing more than Alderson heading down to the dugout between innings to fire Collins. This is a seriously fire able offense. An extra inning of Harvey, then Mejia, then BP????
Lol. If it wasn't so predictable Id be upset. His decision making is absurd. Ill give him credit for clubhouse stuff but his in game management is terrible.
Please defend this use of pitchers after the 6th inning of a blowout:
Keep in your ace coming off TJS an extra inning
Then bring in Mejia who has a career of arm trouble
Then BP also coming off TJS.
Then states Campbell will start at 1b against lefties.
Two idiotic comments molded into one equals the players are laughing at him...
Please defend this use of pitchers after the 6th inning of a blowout:
Keep in your ace coming off TJS an extra inning
Then bring in Mejia who has a career of arm trouble
Then BP also coming off TJS.
Its asinine Sheck. Asinine.
Then states Campbell will start at 1b against lefties.
Two idiotic comments molded into one equals the players are laughing at him...
I pretty much feel the same way. And I fear in an actual playoff chase with the heat turned up even further his mistakes are going to be magnified even more. I hope he doesn't cost us in a huge game.
A lot about nothing.
Familia hasn't pitched in 4 days. And Monday is a team off-day. No harm using him.
A lot about nothing.
Steve he's immediately our second best reliever. Relievers can't pitch multiple days in a row sometimes and we might need him tomorrow. I think thats the point. How do you defend Familia now? Ugh.
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He missed all season to date. Has only pitched about five innings since back and hasn't pitched in three days. So not pitching him tonight because of a history of arm trouble shouldn't even be a consideration if they believe he would benefit for getting in an inning tonight.
A lot about nothing.
Steve he's immediately our second best reliever. Relievers can't pitch multiple days in a row sometimes and we might need him tomorrow. I think thats the point. How do you defend Familia now? Ugh.
They also need consistent work. As Keith and Gary just mentioned Familia hasn't pitched since Tuesday and needs the work.
Familia hasn't pitched in 4 days. And Monday is a team off-day. No harm using him.
Last time there was no harm using him, we didn't use him the next day for a four inning save. Good point - no harm.
Quote:
Adam Rubin
Familia hasn't pitched in 4 days. And Monday is a team off-day. No harm using him.
Last time there was no harm using him, we didn't use him the next day for a four inning save. Good point - no harm.
Exactly.
A lot about nothing.
Steve, I don't want to be a dick because a) I respect you here b) I've had a few too many. BUT just trust me - mejia's fitness and workload to date is absolutely not an issue. "5 innings ytd" mean absolutely nothing for him.
Again, "they need the work" bullshit line that will get used. Well, simple. Give them the fuckin workload tomorrow. Then if you actually need them, they are fresh. And if you don't, then you limit DeGrom to six innings and extend him for the playoff push.
I'll stop, because there is no need to argue for any of us. His handling of the pitchers the last three innings were nothing but moronic and indefensible.
Awesome.
On a lesser scale... and again he would have to do it more this week... Kirk too?
Shit maybe leave the OF alone. Platoon Kirk/Lagares start Granderson and Conforto with Cuddyer and Johnson in reserve? That may not be so bad?
Shit. I go back and forth daily. If thats the case trade for Tulo and be done with it. lol WS here we come.
Terry Collins on why Matt Harvey had better control tonight: "I'm sure he'll tell you a five-man rotation."
Terry Collins on why Matt Harvey had better control tonight: "I'm sure he'll tell you a five-man rotation."
Lol. Its almost funny. Only thing that gives me pause is that Darling swears by it daily. I think Colon does too.
Everything is lining up....
Cuddyer replaces Campbell
TDA replaces Recker
Matz back end of August
Wright and Blevins in September?
We could go into the playoffs positively loaded if everything works out. Especially if we still add another piece.....
Uribe and Johnson gives Collins options to rest guys and play match ups better. Muno was doing squat and Mayberry didnt have a good year. That's who they replaced.
Imagine next Friday - TdA back, maybe another piece added via trade, Harvey/JdG/Thor scheduled to pitch. Citi will be rocking.
It's definitely not completely "ok" yet, but adding the 2 guys they added yesterday is probably already beyond what most of us were realistically expecting. TdA starting his rehab, Duda showing a pulse and Conforto going 4-4, I mean that's more half a new lineup. Pretty soon we may not have anyone on the roster hitting under .200.
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before popping the "it's ok" champaign?
It's definitely not completely "ok" yet, but adding the 2 guys they added yesterday is probably already beyond what most of us were realistically expecting. TdA starting his rehab, Duda showing a pulse and Conforto going 4-4, I mean that's more half a new lineup. Pretty soon we may not have anyone on the roster hitting under .200.
Im trying to keep it in perspective here but your right. We just added 3 new hitters to our lineup in the last 24 hours and they are all hitting already. TDA is playing in Bing tonight. Our GM told us today he is still big game fishing and we are a week from the deadline. Wright is supposed to start baseball activities this week. Thats a world wind of good news after months of injuries and disappointment. All that and I didn't even mention Duda, Murphy, Kirk, and others might seriously be coming out of it finally. One day at a time but Im feeling pretty good right now.
That Nats series is coming at the perfect time. Friday is the deadline and TDA is expected back around Friday. We could go into that series really ready for war.
Injuries are going to happen, key is depth. Having a guy like Kelly Johnson who can step in anywhere to go with talented guys who can step in like Flores, Plawecki, and Verrett is as important as anything else. Depth is looking good, now the question is if they need another impact hitter. If Duda is back, TdA stays healthy, and Granderson doesn't slump they may be ok as is, but that's a lot of ifs so I'd feel a whole lot more comfortable with 1 more impact guy.
I then really only see SS as a weakness and even Tejada/Flores isn't terrible.
Shit maybe you do go big for Tulo. I don't know. The whole thought of Tulo makes me too nervous for words. lol
In the OF Kirk & Conforto are both definitely making things less urgent. But if there's a chance to get an impact player like Gomez or a rental like Cespedes cheaper than expected you have to do it. Need to do everything we can to get these pitchers to the post season.
My point, though, is The Mets traded Beltran for Wheeler Straight up. At that time Wheeler was having a meh year at A ball.
Now it takes Wheeler + 3 other prospects? Just don't see it. Tulo goes down, Mets are f--ked royally. No Cecchini and no money to sign anyone else. mets fans will be begging to get Tejada back. It's a huge gamble. And to me the reward I'd just not worth the risk
Now if they would take Fulmer, Flores and Dom smith, I'd do it. But I doubt that gets it done
My point, though, is The Mets traded Beltran for Wheeler Straight up. At that time Wheeler was having a meh year at A ball.
Now it takes Wheeler + 3 other prospects? Just don't see it. Tulo goes down, Mets are f--ked royally. No Cecchini and no money to sign anyone else. mets fans will be begging to get Tejada back. It's a huge gamble. And to me the reward I'd just not worth the risk
Now if they would take Fulmer, Flores and Dom smith, I'd do it. But I doubt that gets it done
Beltran was a playoff rental in the OF position. A SS signed long term is not apples to apples.
For the Rockies. Obviously trading Tulo is like the Mets trading Wright. No one wants it to happen, but it's best. They need pitching as usual. Lots of free agent top end pitching, but they know they can't talk someone into how great their school system is again. They ideally wait till the offseason to see what, if any pitching, they can sign. Sign none, trade Tulo. That's their ideal scenario. Realistically, they need to trade for an ace.
Now, of all teams in the league who is willing to trade a controllable ace? Out of those zero teams, how many are looking to acquire a Tulo and his contract as well? Zero + zero = the Mets... Literally the only team in the league that matches up here. Rockies need a replacement SS, 1B and a catcher as well. They are set in the Of and 3b.
And vice versa - which team can the Mets match up that needs young pitching and has offense to spare. Cubs and Rockies? Rockies have a SS to move and ridiculous amount of Of depth. Are the Mets willing to move a big arm for a hitter? Have the Mets decided which catcher they will grow with? Which young SS's are untouchable? Are they willing to move Duda?
Long story short, there is a ton of potential for moves for both teams. But it's complex, so it probably doesn't happen. Though there is no reason on both sides for it not to happen. Reality says its best to happen in the offseason when they mets will be ready to move one of the catchers. When they can more easily replace Duda. When the Rockies realize they can't acquire an ace. When Wheeler has already thrown and is closer to a return.
I'd be willing to move: Wheeler or (Montero &Fulmer). TdA. Duda. Nimmo - but unlikely they have any desire for him... Flores. Rosario. These are guys I think would all flourish in Colorado.
For
Tulo, Dickerson, McMahon, Brothers
Grandy, Murphy/Herrera, Tulo, Duda, Dickerson, Conforto/Cuddyer, Plawecki, uribe. <-- that is one tough lineup for a starting pitcher to contend with. A LOT. Of professional ABs up and down the lineup. IF, big if, but if Wright fights through for a playoff run, even better.
Harvey, DeGrom, Thor, Matz/Niese. Colon resorts to long man, end games with Robles, Parnell and Familia. Not a bad playoff pitching team.
Then you tweak it in the offseason and put the finishing touches on this roster.
Anthony DiComo @AnthonyDiComo
.@MarcCarig says #Mets are looking coyly at Yoenis Cespedes, too. One name I keep hearing is Jay Bruce...Mets are scouting him heavily.
Putting Bruce out of position?
Where does Bruce fit?
I think you need to either acquire a CF or SS to make a trade compelling or include the player at the position your trading.
Anthony DiComo @AnthonyDiComo
.@MarcCarig says #Mets are looking coyly at Yoenis Cespedes, too. One name I keep hearing is Jay Bruce...Mets are scouting him heavily.
Only problem with a Cespedes trade is you greatly reduce the odds of resigning him. Virtually a lock he is a rental. Bruce would be an outstanding trade!
Putting Bruce out of position?
Where does Bruce fit?
I think you need to either acquire a CF or SS to make a trade compelling or include the player at the position your trading.
PJ,
Gomez is the only "big" CF available so your options are limited unless you want to add a lesser player. If the Mets are interested in Bruce/Cespedes it leads me to believe they are considering Granderson in CF, even part time.
Shecky has long been a Plawecki backer so most of his trade scenarios couldl involve TDA leaving.
Eric has long liked the idea of Flores at second so he might suggest trading Herrera, because he is a "threat" to that.
I might have gotten excited with what Cecchini is doing so now my trade proposals involve Rosario. lol
Its just funny to me.
I would much rather see Granderson in CF, Conforto in LF and Bruce/Cespedes/Reddick in RF than one of those 3 in LF with Lagares in CF and Granderson in RF.
Conforto is 100% ready to be here now. He should never see the minors again.
Don't panic and build with youth around this young staff and this team has a chance of being set up for a nice long run these coming years.
All of a sudden we would have an excellent bench, too. That team would be good enough to contend with TdA back in the mix.
Yeah. Totally. Like I said, its just funny, and most of us probably don't even know we are doing it. If your looking for it though you'll find it.
Why take measures to nullify the bigadvantage this staff gives the team?
This isn't Daniel Murphy in LF.
I mean if your convinced Conforto is going to give us Cespedes/Bruce production for the rest of the year after one game great! All those players are out then. We are set.
This isn't Daniel Murphy in LF.
I agree, and Ive long brought that up as a possibility. Would massively upgrade the offense. Going from Lagares's offense to Granderson?? lol. Granderson will still be 34 during the 2016 season. He isn't ancient. You could at least maybe do it once in a while. Not sure they would though.
Don't let the game yesterday delude you into thinking we have an above average offense. We still need more help.
Parra would be my ideal add because he can play a good enough CF.
There's just no way I am sending Conforto back down now.
This isn't Daniel Murphy in LF.
Cool. He was also once a good athlete. He's hardly that now. The bottom line is you're playing a guy out of position at a crticical defensive position to add a guy like Bruce who is just barely cracking .800 OPS after a whopping .650 last year.
How are these guys big fish? They're basically league average corner outfielders.
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Granderson has logged thousands of innings in CF at the MLB level. The Flores comparison is, for lack of a better word, stupid.
This isn't Daniel Murphy in LF.
I agree, and Ive long brought that up as a possibility. Would massively upgrade the offense. Going from Lagares's offense to Granderson?? lol. Granderson will still be 34 during the 2016 season. He isn't ancient. You could at least maybe do it once in a while. Not sure they would though.
It's not the most ideal thing but I don't see how it wouldn't make this team better. Lagares offensively to Granderson is a very, very large leap this season. The offensive upgrade would likely be enough to cancel out the defensive drop.
Quote:
Granderson has logged thousands of innings in CF at the MLB level. The Flores comparison is, for lack of a better word, stupid.
This isn't Daniel Murphy in LF.
Cool. He was also once a good athlete. He's hardly that now. The bottom line is you're playing a guy out of position at a crticical defensive position to add a guy like Bruce who is just barely cracking .800 OPS after a whopping .650 last year.
Why do I care about Jay Bruce's one crappy outlier year in 2014 again? It's 2015 and he's putting up numbers consistent with the rest of his career again.
If Conforto is a starter and let's say Kirk is back to "2014 Kirk". The OF might not need help. Kirk had a wRC+ of 130 last year! He also plays a great CF. Starters are Conforto-Lagares/Kirk-Granderson. Backups Cuddyer-Johnson. That actually looks like a pretty balanced outfield but its predicated on two guys we need to see more from.
Dan mentioned the other day(he's no Kirk fan) that he likely gives you Venable production in CF and that was before his 4-4 night. I tend to agree.
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In comment 12386116 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Granderson has logged thousands of innings in CF at the MLB level. The Flores comparison is, for lack of a better word, stupid.
This isn't Daniel Murphy in LF.
I agree, and Ive long brought that up as a possibility. Would massively upgrade the offense. Going from Lagares's offense to Granderson?? lol. Granderson will still be 34 during the 2016 season. He isn't ancient. You could at least maybe do it once in a while. Not sure they would though.
It's not the most ideal thing but I don't see how it wouldn't make this team better. Lagares offensively to Granderson is a very, very large leap this season. The offensive upgrade would likely be enough to cancel out the defensive drop.
Id try it. You could still bring Lagares into the game around the 7th inning with a lead.
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If the Mets land a big outfield fish like Cespedes or Bruce Conforto is going down. As he should. See you when the rosters expand.
How are these guys big fish? They're basically league average corner outfielders.
Cespedes and Bruce are league average players?? WTF? Cespedes has a 3.3 WAR right now!
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In comment 12386122 Torrag said:
Quote:
If the Mets land a big outfield fish like Cespedes or Bruce Conforto is going down. As he should. See you when the rosters expand.
How are these guys big fish? They're basically league average corner outfielders.
Cespedes and Bruce are league average players?? WTF? Cespedes has a 3.3 WAR right now!
LOL.. yeah I was going to say. On what planet is Yoenis Cespedes a "league average" player right now?
Cespedes is having a ridiculous year.
Quote:
In comment 12386116 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Granderson has logged thousands of innings in CF at the MLB level. The Flores comparison is, for lack of a better word, stupid.
This isn't Daniel Murphy in LF.
Cool. He was also once a good athlete. He's hardly that now. The bottom line is you're playing a guy out of position at a crticical defensive position to add a guy like Bruce who is just barely cracking .800 OPS after a whopping .650 last year.
Why do I care about Jay Bruce's one crappy outlier year in 2014 again? It's 2015 and he's putting up numbers consistent with the rest of his career again.
Because its his most recent full season. And its not like numbers consistent with the rest of his career are that great so you've got a guy who's a risk (.650 last year) and his upside isn't even that good. And for that you're moving a guy who can't run very well to centerfield and giving up prospects. And adding yet another LH bat to a team starved for a RH bat. Sounds like a lateral move at best.
The good thing is even if he struggles some it doesn't mean he won't be more productive than Cuddyer been and he will only improve himself as he earns to adjust to what the pitchers do.
This can't be stressed enough. After reading some of these posts from yesterdays outburst you'd think some offensive juggernaut has sprouted from the earth. This team is still very offensively challenged and more moves should be made.
And his 2015 thus far should be proof of that.
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In comment 12386123 chris r said:
Quote:
In comment 12386122 Torrag said:
Quote:
If the Mets land a big outfield fish like Cespedes or Bruce Conforto is going down. As he should. See you when the rosters expand.
How are these guys big fish? They're basically league average corner outfielders.
Cespedes and Bruce are league average players?? WTF? Cespedes has a 3.3 WAR right now!
LOL.. yeah I was going to say. On what planet is Yoenis Cespedes a "league average" player right now?
I said league average corner OF. This is his first season (barely) over .800 since his rookie year and he's batting in an absolutely stacked lineup. He's a good bet to regress to his numbers from the past few years on the Mets.
I think Upton and Cespedes have switched from earlier in the season. Now Cespedes might be getting the huge deal and Upton might be able to be had for less(Obviously both are getting paid well over 100 million)
There's that too.
I just think prospects and defense for either of those two guys is a lateral move. They're not difference making bats IMO.
Them using the shift just proves they had no idea about him.
All professional pitchers will learn how to best approach individual hitters, then it is up to the hitter to adjust to that. When he gets past that process we will have a better idea of what we really have. I'm not saying that he won't, I really like him just pointing out he will likely have a period where he struggles some that's all.
I think Upton and Cespedes have switched from earlier in the season. Now Cespedes might be getting the huge deal and Upton might be able to be had for less(Obviously both are getting paid well over 100 million)
Look at his numbers. He's having his best year since his rookie year hitting in a great lineup and its not like he's even been great.
I kind of agree. We've added 2 solid players in an acquisition. We called up our first round pick who clearly is unfazed by the bright lights. We get TDA back this week. Players like Kirk, Duda, and Murphy might be coming out of it.
I think we'd all like to add another piece but I think its changed from YOU HAVE TO DO SOMETHING, to lets see what teams approach us with. Lets not forget there is pressure on teams to try to get some value for some of these rental guys especially.