Metrics say Tulowitzki is overrated. Probably due to injuries taking their toll. He also has 13 GIDP.
Obviously, we would all take him on the team in a heartbeat. But his peripherals are huge warning signs, regarding future performance. If the Wilpons were willing to spend, you take the risk. But if taking on Tulo's contract means letting guys letting some of the pitchers walk in a few year, then no thanks.
and that's why advance metrics have become completely overdone. Tulo =Tejada and Tulo < Granderson.
Because the computer says so. Maybe the Rockies will package Tulo and Cargo for Granderson? Though, the Rox may have to add some prospects.
If used judiciously advanced metrics are very informative. But, yes, you have to take them as just one part of the puzzle.
We all know Tulo is way better than Tejada. But the fact that their WAR are almost identical is something to consider. Tulo's defense seems really to have declined, no doubt because of injuries.
and that's why advance metrics have become completely overdone. Tulo =Tejada and Tulo < Granderson.
Because the computer says so. Maybe the Rockies will package Tulo and Cargo for Granderson? Though, the Rox may have to add some prospects.
If used judiciously advanced metrics are very informative. But, yes, you have to take them as just one part of the puzzle.
We all know Tulo is way better than Tejada. But the fact that their WAR are almost identical is something to consider. Tulo's defense seems really to have declined, no doubt because of injuries.
Anybody would take Tulo over Tejada but how about looking at it to tell that Tulo really isn't having the best year? Why is this so hard for people to comprehend? Tull's 2015 pales in comparison to a "Tulo in his prime year" Its also important to point out considering he has had a series of hip injuries and might even need the" A-Rod procedure" soon. And I really don't get why people think wRC+ is some advanced thing. Its freaking essentially OPS which is EXTREMELY useful when looking at a players offensive value. This isn't some hoky poky thing. lol
2010 (Tulo's best year by advanced stats, 5.6 fWAR)
.315 / .380 / .568 (27 HRs, 95 RBIs, 529 PA's)
2015
.305 / .353 / .478 (on pace for 20 HRs, 89 RBIs, 540 PA's)
Right now his K rate is higher so that's a concern I suppose and obviously it's possible his defense has gone backwards (though he is still rated pretty well there with a 0 DRS). But generally speaking his main numbers are pretty similar across the board. Maybe this year he's been a little over aggressive or just trying to do a too much? I'm most encouraged by his road numbers honestly.
but if they changed their mind I'd be all over him. I'd also see if the Cubs would deal Russell.
If I'm giving up a kings ransom its for guys who can be in their prime with the pitching core, not injured or injury prone 30 year olds at athleticism-dependent positions like Gomez and Tulo.
I'm also leery to give up on Lagares. He's having his worst season to so far but he's still a 26 year old GG winner at one of the most important defensive positions. And he was solid offensively last year. He was looking like a Simmons caliber player in 2014.
I also don't like trotting out a corner outfielder in CF to add a .800 OPS outfielder like Bruce or Cespedes.
Gomez or Parra are bats that would make the biggest impact for this team. Because they can play CF and bat leadoff. Letting them put Granderson in the cleanup spot
if they really think he's done then 3rd base is the position to upgrade.
Frazier makes a ton of sense especially because he can play first if Duda continues sucking. I am leery about trading for him off of his best season by far.
We have Murphy, Uribe, and still possibly Wright in September for third. Im sure Johnson could play there in a pinch too. Hell add Flores and Tejada to the list. Hell, even Cuddyer as a 7th option has tons of games at third if it were an emergency!
Think we are covered at third now.
unfortunate about Frazier but the Mets will need to add someone there
We need some sort of definitive prognosis on him before we can really address it, IMO. That's why Uribe was a good pick up. It keeps us covered there with depth for the remainder of 2015 even if Wright doesn't return but we haven't done anything that makes putting Wright back in the lineup complicated if he is somehow able to return.
until 2017 at the earliest. Wright is going to attempt a comeback this year and play a bit in September. Then he's going to go through an entire offseason of treatment and come up with a plan on how to manage this. He will absolutely still be in the mix in 2016, although we will have to have some insurance policy like Uribe. If he fails to play at a respectable level after 2016, THEN... maybe he retires... but we are a ways away from that.
Adam Rubin @AdamRubinESPN 13s14 seconds ago
Joel Sherman reports Mets now more interested in trading for setup man than bat. Remember, Jenrry Mejia ineligible for postseason.
The Met's lineup is really up in the air long term
They don't have a single good player they can count on for the next few years. You hope Conforto can be as good as we think, TdA can stay health, Duda and Lageres can rebound and Herrera or Flores can be good at 2B, etc., but there's not one guy who next season you can count on to be a solid player. Its not to say a few of the above guys won't be, but we don't know for (nearly) sure who it will be.
I'd like to see them move anyone but the 4 pitchers, Familia and Conforto to get a young, cornerstone type position player to build around. Not sure who though.
I am with you on Bruce 100%.. but what do you do if we acquire him? Send Conforto back down or try sliding Granderson into CF? I'm not sure how it would work alignment-wise.
Adam Rubin @AdamRubinESPN 13s14 seconds ago
Joel Sherman reports Mets now more interested in trading for setup man than bat. Remember, Jenrry Mejia ineligible for postseason.
push for Bruce. Enough discussing Frazier. He'd cost one of those "OMG ALL of that? deals". Syndergaard + significantly more
He's having his first superstar type season at 29. Do you really think he'd bring back a superstar return based on him producing at this level for one season at 29?
with adding a reliever I guess if we aren't giving up huge prospects. Im far more worried about getting into the postseason first however. Parnell, Robles, and even a starter like Matz could be a late inning option if he isn't starting. Typical rules kind of get thrown out the window. Look at Bumgarner last year. You can even bring in deGrom to close out a Harvey start if its the WS.
I'm all for a setup man, but IMO bat is still a bigger priority
unless they are worried about Blevins. I know we lose Mejia for postseason, but we'd also likely have at least 1 of the starters in the pen. Even guys like Verrett and Montero could end being internal possibilities.
it prevents a huge logjam if you decide Conforto and Granderson are your "guys" next year.
Still love Bruce but then you have three guys for two spots heading into 2016 and you likely HAVE to find a taker for Granderson in the offseason.
Think Gomez and Tulo actually do make most sense position wise if you are considering 2016 although Ive voiced my complaints on both. A rental like Cespedes gives us a fantastic shot this year and you worry about the offseason in the offseason.
push for Bruce. Enough discussing Frazier. He'd cost one of those "OMG ALL of that? deals". Syndergaard + significantly more
He's having his first superstar type season at 29. Do you really think he'd bring back a superstar return based on him producing at this level for one season at 29?
What? His 2015 is a replica of nearly every season he's ever had. Exact opposite of a "first superstar season". He has 2 top 10 MVP voting seasons already
I am with you on Bruce 100%.. but what do you do if we acquire him? Send Conforto back down or try sliding Granderson into CF? I'm not sure how it would work alignment-wise.
The Mets reportedly really are making a push for him. Not my opinion. I would try Granderson in CF, can't be any worse than what Lagares is giving them but obviously the Mets have a plan.
push for Bruce. Enough discussing Frazier. He'd cost one of those "OMG ALL of that? deals". Syndergaard + significantly more
He's having his first superstar type season at 29. Do you really think he'd bring back a superstar return based on him producing at this level for one season at 29?
What? His 2015 is a replica of nearly every season he's ever had. Exact opposite of a "first superstar season". He has 2 top 10 MVP voting seasons already
Think he is talking about Frazier, not Bruce.
Conforto's first "welcome to the big leagues" moment right there
This game very well may come down to who doesn't make key mistakes. Hopefully the guys keep their heads in the game and don't make any errors, both physical and mental.
Is Conforto and Bruce MINUS the boatload of prospects it took to get him as your CO in 2016 that big of an upgrade over Conforto and Granderon? Sure he's younger and probably better overall but not sure its a HUGE difference.
Assuming we had to dump Granderosn in the offseason because of Bruce....
has been worth 2.6, , 3.2, 4.8 and now 4.0 WAR, he was an above average regular in 2012, a star in 2013, elite last year and an MVP caliber player this year. Late bloomer sure but far from 1 big season.
26 players in baseball were more valuable than Frazier last year, this year 7.
Since opening day 2014 10 players have been better, since opening day 2013, 15 players have been better. His contract is incredible. His price would be IMMENSE.
in CF a bit this year down the stretch but as he gets older I don't think you'd want to pencil him in CF long term and in to next season. Not as a permanent solution anyway.
Especially with the elbow? To me that's a possible hedge against both problems - Granderson regressing due to age (which would be a negative in RF also) and the uncertainty around Lagares.
Bruce is also considered a very good RF'er, correct?
This game very well may come down to who doesn't make key mistakes. Hopefully the guys keep their heads in the game and don't make any errors, both physical and mental.
Marc Carig @MarcCarig
Heard Mets still pursuing bats. For instance, they still have interest in Parra, even after deal w/Brewers fell through earlier this week.
Marc Carig @MarcCarig
Heard Mets still pursuing bats. For instance, they still have interest in Parra, even after deal w/Brewers fell through earlier this week.
Great! Id still love Parra. I guess you DFA Kirk, but Parra at the top of the lineup and moving Granderson's power into the middle of the lineup would be a nice upgrade.
Peter Botte @PeterBotte
Pedro used to dance around Mets clubhouse naked in a Yoda mask and boxing gloves. Guess that's not happening for the induction ceremony.
Marc Carig @MarcCarig
Heard Mets still pursuing bats. For instance, they still have interest in Parra, even after deal w/Brewers fell through earlier this week.
Great! Id still love Parra. I guess you DFA Kirk, but Parra at the top of the lineup and moving Granderson's power into the middle of the lineup would be a nice upgrade.
Yeah, fit-wise I really think Parra makes the most sense.
I really, really want Cespedes or Bruce it just makes the alignments a little funky but I am guessing the Mets would have a plan for that.
I want 1 of Parra, Bruce, Gomez, Cespedes, Reddick, Tulo, Upton
I consider those guys to all be potential impact guys. With Kelly Johnson & Conforto in the fold, Byrd/Veneble/Rayburn wouldn't be that big of an upgrade at this point.
Adam Rubin @AdamRubinESPN 13s14 seconds ago
Joel Sherman reports Mets now more interested in trading for setup man than bat. Remember, Jenrry Mejia ineligible for postseason.
K-Rod would make a lot of sense.
They need to train Robles to take over Mejia's role. They have enough good pitching to not have to trade for a reliever.
Gut feeling but assuming Niese finishes the season strong, I think the playoff rotation would be Harvey, deGrom, Syndergaard, Niese with math in the pen.
Or if Syndergaard hits his innings limits maybe its Harvey, deGrom, Matz, and Niese with Syndergaard in the pen. Either way we could have a NASTY option back there.
I like Gilmartin as the 2nd lefty, since he's started getting more
Gut feeling but assuming Niese finishes the season strong, I think the playoff rotation would be Harvey, deGrom, Syndergaard, Niese with math in the pen.
Or if Syndergaard hits his innings limits maybe its Harvey, deGrom, Matz, and Niese with Syndergaard in the pen. Either way we could have a NASTY option back there.
I think Matz or Thor will be in the BP during the post season so I agree. That's why bat is still higher on the priority list to me.
Seems like another example of a rental moving without any true blue chip prospects involved. Finnegan is a recent 1st round pick who has the highest current ranking of anyone involved, being on most pre-15 top 100 lists and topping out at #55 overall. Lamb was the #11 overall prospect in 2011 but seems to have fallen off since. Reed was a 2013 2nd round pick.
Or maybe having not pitched since Tuesday using him in an easy inning yesterday didn't allow him to get stale to where he would be less effective today when he needs to be sharp.
Mulder, and Zito were all sub-25, in the playoffs and all came up from the A's, that's impressive.
1997 Braves with Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Neagle, and Millwood was maybe the best rotation in recent history.
Neagle won 20 games that year.
Ok well first. None of those A's pitchers ever really had the reputation of "best in the game" type of stature like deGrom is approaching now and Harvey did in 2013. Second. Neale was a free agent addition after playing with the Twins and other teams earlier in his career. Not really the same thing.
Mulder, and Zito were all sub-25, in the playoffs and all came up from the A's, that's impressive.
1997 Braves with Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Neagle, and Millwood was maybe the best rotation in recent history.
Neagle won 20 games that year.
The Mets rotation might be able to top that.. god willing with our offense
All said and done I hope they are thought of as the best, but until there are accomplishments and accolades like those other rotations it's all potential.
The Braves team have a ring, 3 HOF-ers, multiple Cy youngs, and all-stars
the A's slightly less, no ring (except Zito with SF that I knwo of) multiple all-stars, and some cy youngs.
the Mets are not as young as some might think, and so far have a ROY, and 2-all-stars.
people need to stop putting them in Cooperstown until there are some accomplishments, full season accomplishments.
today, I'd even have the the 1986 or 1988 Mets rotations better rotations than this one
Jon Heyman @JonHeymanCBS 13s13 seconds ago Queens, NY
mets took on exactly $2.5M in uribe/johnson deal. so braves chip in close to 500K. (uribe '15 salary $6.5M, KJ 1.5M)
Syndergaard coming over as a single A pitcher, developing in the Mets system, and breaking in with the Mets is WAY different than acquiring a guy that had a 6 year career prior before joining a team.
Not everything is the managers fault. Familia isn't a robot. Unfortunately he didn't have it today. Came at the worst time possible.
Maybe, maybe not. Still wasn't ideal pitching him yesterday.
C'mon man, he needs 4 days rest? If throwing 9 pitches rendered him ineffective the next day he shouldn't be in the majors.
Arc, it's hard to argue with your logical answer. But I'm not wired to give Collins credit for anything, lol. He used up any good will I may have for him years ago, lol.
Not everything is the managers fault. Familia isn't a robot. Unfortunately he didn't have it today. Came at the worst time possible.
Maybe, maybe not. Still wasn't ideal pitching him yesterday.
C'mon man, he needs 4 days rest? If throwing 9 pitches rendered him ineffective the next day he shouldn't be in the majors.
Arc, it's hard to argue with your logical answer. But I'm not wired to give Collins credit for anything, lol. He used up any good will I may have for him years ago, lol.
LOL, I know man.. it's all good. As great as Familia has been this year, this one's on him. Sucks it happened today, we really need this one. Have to find a way.
And come on, Kirk.. JFC..
and there's a warm kick in the nuts from "old kirk"
that's a lot to ask from a guy in his first year as a closer
it worked a couple of times early on when Mets pen was shaky
but now getting into the dog days Familia should be used more traditionally. He's probably tired physically and emotionally. Reduce the strain
Ask a guy to get four outs after pitching the previous night is stupid
on a late inning arm as a bridge to Familia. In light of the fact that should they make the playoffs, Mejia is ineligible. There are a lot of arms like that available and they still might add a bat, but I have my doubts
If Collins brought someone else in and they gave up the runs, he'd get crucified for not bringing Familia in for the 4 out save.
The narrative would then become "Familia only threw 9 pitches last night and had 3 days off before that, he should have been in there for the 4 out save and Collins got too cute and fucked up as usual"
Sometimes these guys are in situations they can't win.
If Collins brought someone else in and they gave up the runs, he'd get crucified for not bringing Familia in for the 4 out save.
The narrative would then become "Familia only threw 9 pitches last night and had 3 days off before that, he should have been in there for the 4 out save and Collins got too cute and fucked up as usual"
Sometimes these guys are in situations they can't win.
He cant win. Last time Parnell blew it in the 8 and Collins learned from that experience. Now its Familias turn
Pitching last night, warming up and going into the game precludes more than a one inning appearance in my book. This isn't Mariano freakin Rivera we're talking about.
If Collins brought someone else in and they gave up the runs, he'd get crucified for not bringing Familia in for the 4 out save.
The narrative would then become "Familia only threw 9 pitches last night and had 3 days off before that, he should have been in there for the 4 out save and Collins got too cute and fucked up as usual"
Sometimes these guys are in situations they can't win.
Apparently no matter how you slice it Collins will be a moron and will have made the obvious wrong decision.
of Collins and I agree this was a paradox for him, but if he didn't bring Familia in last night and brought him in for the 4 out save today and he blew it people wouldn't second guess yesterday.
What I don't get is if a pitcher "needs work"
why not have him throw on the side. Why bring a closer in to a game like yesterday? Having played baseball up until college, but never pitched, is actual pitching that much different than getting in work?
He never should have pitched last night and having done so he shouldn't have been asked to go four outs today. He's a terrible bullpen manager and we have literally dozens of examples to prove it. He isn't getting killed over an isolated incident. At least not by me. It's cumulative. He's one of the worst managers I've ever seen handling the pen.
If this game drags on, their bullpen isn't supposed to be very good,
because the ball was in the air as he should be, but the pitcher after Gonzakez didn't catch it never looked at Granderson and he could have made it to 3rd IMO especially with the second baseman taking the throw and his momentum taking him across the bag
of Collins and I agree this was a paradox for him, but if he didn't bring Familia in last night and brought him in for the 4 out save today and he blew it people wouldn't second guess yesterday.
What I don't get is if a pitcher "needs work"
why not have him throw on the side. Why bring a closer in to a game like yesterday? Having played baseball up until college, but never pitched, is actual pitching that much different than getting in work?
I can't answer your question but having watched baseball for close to fifty years one thing I have heard from pitchers, and former players analyzing the games is that many closers prefer steady work routines in order to stay sharp and not get rusty and that lack of use can really have a negative effect on them.
RE: RE: I can promise if another reliever came in and gave up runs..
but I was hoping for a trade like the Atlanta one. Third tier assets for vets who someone just wanted to move to save salary. Baseball is so finicky -- go for buy lows. 2016-17 make more sense to move big pieces if necessary.
but I was hoping for a trade like the Atlanta one. Third tier assets for vets who someone just wanted to move to save salary. Baseball is so finicky -- go for buy lows. 2016-17 make more sense to move big pieces if necessary.
why is it douchey to say, I think we all were, just that some of us hope it isn't the only moves the FO makes. Some people are clamoring for Parra. I don't think Parra is a "we're going for it" move, I think he's a settling probably buy high move. Gomez, Upton, Cespedes, Tulo IMO those are we're pushing in our chips to the center of the table and going for it kind of move.
and I hope a move like that can be done without core assets. but who knows. and that's just my personal preference.
Will close to within a game with a win I believe. The Dodgers are dragging their feet on pitching and it could cost them. Every time they trot a Lee or his ilk out in a playoff race they are asking for trouble.
but I was hoping for a trade like the Atlanta one. Third tier assets for vets who someone just wanted to move to save salary. Baseball is so finicky -- go for buy lows. 2016-17 make more sense to move big pieces if necessary.
Totally agree. Baseball is like that. Uribe could wind up having a better two months than Tulo, Upton, Bruce etc . . .
I assume he is just being modest and not wanting anyone to think he is just saying he wanted that type of trade after the fact. It wasn't necessary to say but nice that he did.
I assume he is just being modest and not wanting anyone to think he is just saying he wanted that type of trade after the fact. It wasn't necessary to say but nice that he did.
False modesty on my part. It's so easy to say "good trade" after the guys get timely hits.
But generally I've been supportive of small scale trades. I dont think this is the year to push the chips to the middle of the table for pending UFAs, and the assets I'd be most okay moving, Wheeler, Montero, Nimmo and one of the catchers, all could use some time to recover value.
but it appears the Brewers are being greedy with their asking prices.
Agreed, but the extra year of control, team option in 2017, and the Brewers asking price I would be happy with Bruce. He would be a big upgrade and change the complexion of this lineup.
If they can get Bruce for minor prospects that's one thing
but I sure hope they don't give up much for him. I'm not sold on the guy at all. I just don't see much more than a .250 hitter whose power numbers have been inflated having played in that band box in Cincinnati.
No one took that Eddie C WFAN crap seriously. The question isn't whether they will take on a couple million for rental help. The question is will they add significant long term payroll if David Wright is done and they can't maneuver out from under his contract.
No one took that Eddie C WFAN crap seriously. The question isn't whether they will take on a couple million for rental help. The question is will they add significant long term payroll if David Wright is done and they can't maneuver out from under his contract.
Yes there was. There was that bullshit report that we couldn't even take on Zobrists 3 million dollars which caused panic and was utter crap. Then after they heard the Braves were chipping in cash they thought it was most of their contracts. It wasn't. I think Sandy probably STILL has an extra 5-10 million right now judging by the players he's been connected with in trade rumors.
As for what you are talking about concerning Wright? We have close to a complete roster right now, especially if we bring in a Gomez or a Bruce and thats including next year. If we don't, with Colon, Murphy, Parnell, Gee, and possibly Niese coming off the books in 2016 I absolutely think we can add one player in their place. It won't be impossible.
but whatever, I don't judge (or I try not to) and I guess some people do, so no harm in saying it.
My theory is the Mets CAN BE good enough to win now. they have a legit rotation, a legit bullpen (normally) and deficiencies in the lineup, if they can get a bat and get TDA back plus a couple guys come out of their funks like Duda and this team is a contender THIS year.
I'm not saying be impatient, but if you can get Upton with a window to negotiate an extension or Tulo, I do it and hope to win this year.
Friday - Harvey vs. Gonzalez
Saturday - JdG vs. Ross
Sunday - Thor vs. Zimmerman
Obviously they have 3 games against SD first, but if they can take care of business and make the 1 big move they're looking for, that's going to be an electric atmosphere.
I just dont trust his hip. I'd rather pay more for a younger, healthier, lesser player.
He's not my only choice, I'd be fine with him, but it's the point. If the Mets try and get Parra or Venable and say hey look "we're going for it" I think it's settling.
think about it, the dodgers gets Hamels (for example) and the Mets answer is Parra or Venable. I just don't think it's enough.
if the Nats get Kimbrel or Papelbon or Price or someone like that and the Mets get Venable.
Whether it's Tulo or Cespedes or Upton or I guess Bruce though I think less of him, I just think the Mets have the potential to compete (for a title) this year and they have the assets, so I'd like to see them truly go for it.
I'll admit, he scares me. Injury concerns, age, money and Coors Field pushes the bust potential sky high. But, I think that he potentially changes the character of the team in a way that no other possibly available player does.
What's reasonable, though? Damned if I know.
Jake is definitely our ace, but Thor isn't far behind
Hell, I think we can make a run right now if TDA and Matz come back healthy. We are at least as good as the Cubs and Giants(who have a brutal stretch coming up)
I love the trade we made already and if we did nothing else I won't be too upset. That said, I can't see it. We are literally connected to every big name out there. Sandy is working the phones and I expect something else.
The Mets took on 2.5 million dollars in the Uribe and Johnson deals. The Braves chipped in 500,000. Pretty much exactly what I predicted.
Mets wanted Braves to take back Mayberry, Braves paid them to just cut him. Couldn't help but laugh thinking back to some of the offseason debates about Mayberry ;)
The Mets took on 2.5 million dollars in the Uribe and Johnson deals. The Braves chipped in 500,000. Pretty much exactly what I predicted.
Mets wanted Braves to take back Mayberry, Braves paid them to just cut him. Couldn't help but laugh thinking back to some of the offseason debates about Mayberry ;)
Lol. You sure like gloating. Haha. I stand by the signing. His entire career he pounded lefties. Sometimes shit just doesn't work out.
The Mets took on 2.5 million dollars in the Uribe and Johnson deals. The Braves chipped in 500,000. Pretty much exactly what I predicted.
Mets wanted Braves to take back Mayberry, Braves paid them to just cut him. Couldn't help but laugh thinking back to some of the offseason debates about Mayberry ;)
I can't even kill the Mets for this one. Mayberry was excellent against lefties for most of his career up to this point and this year just absolutely sucked against everyone. Typical and expected.. most of what we touch seems to turn to shit as soon as the Met uniform is donned. But hopefully we'll have a little more luck going forward.
Friday - Harvey vs. Gonzalez
Saturday - JdG vs. Ross
Sunday - Thor vs. Zimmerman
Obviously they have 3 games against SD first, but if they can take care of business and make the 1 big move they're looking for, that's going to be an electric atmosphere.
At least we got the correct 3 starters to face the Nats
but whatever, I don't judge (or I try not to) and I guess some people do, so no harm in saying it.
My theory is the Mets CAN BE good enough to win now. they have a legit rotation, a legit bullpen (normally) and deficiencies in the lineup, if they can get a bat and get TDA back plus a couple guys come out of their funks like Duda and this team is a contender THIS year.
I'm not saying be impatient, but if you can get Upton with a window to negotiate an extension or Tulo, I do it and hope to win this year.
yup they are a healthy Wright and TDA away from being contenders.. Unfortunately, we might never be sure about DW
Reddick would be great - I actually like him a bit better than Bruce
Just think he brings a little attitude with him. Gomez is still at the top of the list for me. Overall seems like there's a lot of great options out there, hopefully Sandy's now in the driver's seat.
Cespedes/Upton/Parra are interesting, but only if the price is cheaper since they're rentals.
but Lagares currently can't throw. Parra or Gomez would be an upgrade over the current situation for sure, and that's why those are the ideal guys to go for. But none of these other guys being discussed are bad OF'ers like Cuddyer, and in fact all are regarded pretty highly in the corner. They'd obviously upgrade the offense massively and I really think Granderson would be better in CF than he is in RF. Plus Lagares (or Kirk) would still exist, just on the bench.
which most people say are easiest to make in CF. He misjudges a lot of balls in RF and I'm sure part of that is because he was completely new to the position until he got here.
His arm sucks, but it's no different than the current situation, so unless we are making Kirk our starting CF or trade for Parra Gomez, I don't see that as something that as a downgrade.
has played some CF and has played it well apparently. Still not ideal but he might be an option there too if he was acquired. He's younger than Granderson .
I dont think the Mets plan on sitting or replacing Lagares at all.
Bruce, Cespedes, Gomez, Upton, etc. will play LF primarily. I think the Mets value their CF defense and will platoon Kirk/Lagares accordingly. My read on it is the Mets don't want to rely on Conforto and Cuddyer, who's now on the DL and been struggling all season. They need a legit LF bat and relying on a rookie isn't ideal and as Sandy said unrealistic not to expect a learning curve.
but even looking ahead acquiring Bruce would create a log jam in CO with he, Granderson, and Conforto sooner than later anyway even if you are talking 2016.
I think most of us were operating under the hypothetical that Conforto busts out right away so then what do we do?
Lagares should not play against righthanders ever again. Judging by what Collins has done the last two days Im thinking thats were they are headed. For now it will be Kirk/Lagares with Kirk getting 80% of the abats. If we acquired Parra he would replace Kirk.
If Conforto bust out, things get very interesting. But if I'm Sandy I certainly wouldn't bank on it. With only a few days left before the trade deadline, I don't think it's wise to rely so heavily on Conforto especially during a pennant/wildcard race or if we do, in fact, make the playoffs. I think we need a veteran COF yesterday. We have to admit the Cuddyer mistake and cover ourselves. I prefer Bruce because 1) he is young, affordable, under team control til 2017 (which matters more to me giving up prospects), and perhaps someone we can eventually extend to replace Grandy after his contract runs up in 2017 or is traded. A Conforto, Lagares, Bruce future Mets outfield is what I envision. I think Lagares will bounce back next yr once healthy. I still have high hopes for him. And I think the Mets do too. We'll see.
blocks Conforto not only this season but going forward. That doesn't make sense to me. Maybe, we shouldn't depend on Conforto now, but he's too good to stay in the minors for very long.
no one on the Mets roster draws the walk Conforto drew in his last AB against Greinke, no one. The eye and discipline he showed was of a 15 year vet. I get it lead to nothing, but that showed me a whole lot
no one on the Mets roster draws the walk Conforto drew in his last AB against Greinke, no one. The eye and discipline he showed was of a 15 year vet. I get it lead to nothing, but that showed me a whole lot
That's the "Alderson" AB the system preaches. Not just his walk, but his aggressive first pitch swing which contradicts what most people think of. They are on the way, and it will dramatically change the lineup. Conforto, Plawecki, Nimmo, Cech, Reynolds, etc all buy into it big time. Add those guys and add talent to the lineup with the pitching...
blocks Conforto not only this season but going forward. That doesn't make sense to me. Maybe, we shouldn't depend on Conforto now, but he's too good to stay in the minors for very long.
C'mon Ira. You honestly think the Mets are looking to add a guy like Bruce to then sit Conforto for 2016? Does that sounds realistic at all?
and Herrera's unlikely to come up again this year - which makes sense since they now have 3 guys likely ahead of him on the 2B depth chart (2 of which are only under contract through the end of the year).
I expect we'll see Herrera when the rosters expand
what do take from the Mets giving Uribe Herrera's #2?
I think Keith had it right. Uribe's a vet with rings and a reputation, Hererra is still a prospect. That supersedes the number. Everything I've heard regarding the mets is that they like Dilson Hererra a lot and want him to be the 2B going forward when he's ready
I'd be SHOCKED if we don't see Herrera after 9/1. His speed on the bench alone would be reason to carry him. Expanded rosters means the ability to carry specialists
2- The more I look at Clippard I'm scared he's in decline
Marc Carig ✔ @MarcCarig
Zack Wheeler will clear a rehab milestone today. He's throwing for the first time since undergoing Tommy John surgery four months ago.
Blevins will meet with the doctor on Thursday. Gotta figure he's either going to be cleared to begin throwing (which would mean he'd be back around 8/31) or he'll likely be done for the season.
If Blevins is done we could really use a lefty specialist
I know that is what all the bloggers are saying but it just doesn't make sense.
No way they are moving Granderson to CF with a staff full of flyball pitchers. The difference between Grandy and Lagares defensively would more than offset any offensive gains unless you are adding a major bat. You don't solve one problem by creating another.
If they are looking at the OF, it is more a guy that can play CF. That leaves:
Gomez: they would have to be able to move Lagares's contract to get this done
Parra: the best fit. He and Lagares can split time and you don't have to trade the farm to get him. Brewers are just holding out trying to play the market. Melvin will definitely move him.
Venable: fallback option. The only problem he has hit under .200 for July. Don't really see him as better than Kirk. Seems more like making a move for the sake of making a move. But he would also come cheap since he basically is not very good. Has a cool name, though.
Buster OlneyVerified account
@Buster_ESPN
Sources: Mets asked re:Andrelton Simmons, but the conversation went nowhere with ATL, which basically placed an unreachable price tag on him
is a HOF caliber defensive player already worth 2.2 WAR. He'd be an great fit for the Mets and has a great contract.
Longterm maybe. He does nothing to solve the hitting woes this year and would cost a boatload in prospects
the rumor makes no sense whatsoever
No he wouldn't solve the hitting woes but you don't need your SS to do such a thing. He can hit 8th and do what he does. There were rumors the Mets inquired before the season when the Braves were selling off. I'm not shocked at all.
fact, assuming this rumor is true I like knowing they are still looking at longer term answers. In fact adding Simmons (while at presumably a high cost) also opens you up to being able to deal other SS prospects in the system. Obviously this isn't happening but guys like Harvey would LOVE a guy like Simmons behind them. Herrera is awkward at 2b but he's going to represent an athletic/defensive upgrade from what we have had Simmons/Herrera would have been be very good.
Love Jose but Toronto is looking to add "big" pitchers so I don't really see a fit. The Mets don't have a big SP to spare and the Blue Jays are 3 games out of the WC so unless the Mets are sending prospects to another team that sends this big pitcher to Toronto it's tough to see how it would happen.
Alex Torres sure gets away with being absolutely horrid this year. My guess is it's because he misses bats once in a while. Usually a guy like Torres would be a pinata for fans.
so I guess two years isn't bad, just saying at one point I felt like while he was not Rey Ordonez, he was still flashing highlight reel defense.
he's on pace for a career high in errors, maybe it's a a blip and maybe back on the grass field he'd be better though not sure if that's a thing or not.
I've seen several posters who want Gomez in center field, say that he's our best trade option as it solves two issues in our lineup. First by getting speed at the top of the lineup with Gomez and then also by moving Granderson down to either 4th or 5th.
I haven't see too much of Gomez, so would someone please explain what type of player he is and what you guys think he'll bring to this team with his bat and defense?
RE: Carlos Gomez......Why do you guys like him so much?
I've seen several posters who want Gomez in center field, say that he's our best trade option as it solves two issues in our lineup. First by getting speed at the top of the lineup with Gomez and then also by moving Granderson down to either 4th or 5th.
I haven't see too much of Gomez, so would someone please explain what type of player he is and what you guys think he'll bring to this team with his bat and defense?
Gomez is a 5 tool player who was one of the best players in baseball 2013-2014 and in 2015 started slowly yet is still on pace to be an above average regular. Power, speed, glove, contract. Dynamic player.
hitter. He did it twice in his two career years, but 10-15 is much more realistic, especially in Citifield. That said, I would absolutely take him in CF over Lagares right now.
Gomez would be a pretty sizeable upgrade over 2015 Lagares.
Still like Lagares a bunch but it would be a good move. And we'd finally have a leadoff man. Could move Granderson down a little and lengthen the lineup.
Not surprised ATL put a huge price on him. If they could have swiped him for Wheeler + Cecchini that would have been a really interesting direction to go.
It really seems like Sandy is leaving no stone unturned. Carig reported that he thinks the Parra deal was agreed to in terms of prospects but then the Brewers broke it off because the interest in him was higher than expected. Parra really could make the most sense as a pick up if they think he can be a long term platoon partner/leadoff hitter with Lagares. My #1 hope is still Gomez and am relatively surprised that it's been pretty quiet on him rumor wise. Wonder if the Mets are putting the Bruce stuff out there as a semi-bluff to get other teams thinking it's more of a buyers market than it is.
He's a true 5 tool player who in a down year has the same OPS as Granderson (who has had a great year) and he brings excellent defense in CF. His numbers this year are skewed because he missed half a month (28 games total I think) and he's still on pace for 15 homers. Lagares + Wheeler for Gomez seems very fair to me.
and at his age, and especially moving to Citifield, that sounds about right for me. Maybe a few more. That was my main argument about having him play a CO. His offense is excellent for CF but not really in a corner.
Still would love to get Gomez, but if its costing Nimmo, Fulmer, Cecchini, ect for Gomez
or just second tier players for Parra
I'd probably side with Parra. Totally depends on what's being asked.
As a hitter, Cecchini sets up with his hands deep, just below his back shoulder, doesn't load at all, and comes directly at the ball after a toe-tap and short stride, a swing that's fine for contact but is unlikely to produce much if any power in the majors. He has had throwing woes -- he has 24 errors in 87 games, many of them on bad throws -- and nearly had one get away Saturday night on a routine throw in which he had plenty of time but still lobbed one offline to the first baseman. On two other plays when he had less time, his throws were harder and online, one textbook and one in which he didn't release the ball immediately, like he was trying to find the seams while the ball was in his glove. His hands and footwork are both above average, and if the throwing thing isn't a physical problem (like an elbow injury) or something like the yips, he still projects as an above-average defender at short who'll hit for average and a lot of contact, but without power.
I wonder if #maverick filmed Wheeler throwing & emailed
it to every GM around the league. Aggressive Sandy pulls out all the stops.
Meh, from what I've read Late July was always the plan and he's only throwing from 25 feet. I don't think it's related to the deadline at all to be honest. Harvey was 4 months and Wheeler is nearly 4 months to the day.
Wasn't trying insinuate they intentionally scheduled his rehab
hitter. He did it twice in his two career years, but 10-15 is much more realistic, especially in Citifield. That said, I would absolutely take him in CF over Lagares right now.
Z he's done 3 times: 19, 24 and 23 hrs. He's a 20 HR guy.
and at his age, and especially moving to Citifield, that sounds about right for me. Maybe a few more. That was my main argument about having him play a CO. His offense is excellent for CF but not really in a corner.
Still would love to get Gomez, but if its costing Nimmo, Fulmer, Cecchini, ect for Gomez
or just second tier players for Parra
I'd probably side with Parra. Totally depends on what's being asked.
Gomez has 8 HRs already so why is he on pace for 12 HRs?
Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal 23s23 seconds ago
#Mets making progress on trade for #Athletics Clippard, sources tell me and @jonmorosi. Other teams still in play. Deal expected soon.
Clippard has 6 career postseason IP's (2012 & 2014) and a 1.5 ERA
and he has already grounded into 15 DPs after grounding into 24 last year.
that rumor makes no sense
What's with your love of double play stats lol? Anyway, he's the best defensive player in baseball at one of the most important defensive positions. You have him and Lagares (2014) version and you can just load up on offense at all the other positions.
he is only 30. Could the numbers be hurt from the move to the AL from the NL? Or does that not matter much for relievers since they prolly faced less pitchers in the NL anyway. He seems like he would be a solid addition, but i dont like that you guys dont seem thrilled, ha.
it's all about price to me - very hard to judge relievers
I've seen several posters who want Gomez in center field, say that he's our best trade option as it solves two issues in our lineup. First by getting speed at the top of the lineup with Gomez and then also by moving Granderson down to either 4th or 5th.
I haven't see too much of Gomez, so would someone please explain what type of player he is and what you guys think he'll bring to this team with his bat and defense?
Gomez is a 5 tool player who was one of the best players in baseball 2013-2014 and in 2015 started slowly yet is still on pace to be an above average regular. Power, speed, glove, contract. Dynamic player.
Hip injury. Not nearly as fast. 30. A player whose game relies on athleticism. Pass.
pitching in Oakland is the issue. The ballpark is a great pitchers park. Velocity is normal though so that's a good sign.
I was thinking more just being uncomfortable with new batters/DH/living on the west coast. Could be anything. If velocity, age, medical are clear and the price is fair it's worth rolling the dice.
not that you are paying the price for a clippard...
I'm not really worried about the postseason anyway with starters pitching from the backend. So we'll have Clippard, Parnell, and Mejia all as set up options over the next two months. I'll take it.
Jeff Passan @JeffPassan 1m1 minute ago
Source: Mets, A's indeed making progress on Tyler Clippard deal, as @ken_rosenthal said. No Ben Zobrist involvement in these talks.
To me, if the price is less than Montero I'm happy. I would not give up Montero for Clippard personally, and obviously if it's anything more that I'd consider it an overpay.
Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 42s42 seconds ago
Can confirm @kenrosenthal was a told #Mets working "real hard" to close deal for Clippard. Minor league P again is main bait.
The fact that he's been good against lefties is a nice bonus considering Blevins is still an unknown.
#Dodgers lineup: Pederson CF, Kendrick 2B, Gonzalez 1B, Turner 3B, Grandal C, Puig RF, Ethier LF, Rollins SS, Greinke P.
@msimonespn
An image showing how Mets OF Michael Conforto was pitched to in each AB Saturday. And how he did (hint: well!)
@msimonespn
An image showing how Mets OF Michael Conforto was pitched to in each AB Saturday. And how he did (hint: well!)
Was it his 4th AB that they shifted against him. If so Dodgers did a horrendous job
A) scouting him
B) pitching to him
Tulowitzki: 1.4
Tejada: 1.3
wRC+ 2015:
Granderson: 119
Duda: 118
Tulowitzki: 111
Metrics say Tulowitzki is overrated. Probably due to injuries taking their toll. He also has 13 GIDP.
Obviously, we would all take him on the team in a heartbeat. But his peripherals are huge warning signs, regarding future performance. If the Wilpons were willing to spend, you take the risk. But if taking on Tulo's contract means letting guys letting some of the pitchers walk in a few year, then no thanks.
Because the computer says so. Maybe the Rockies will package Tulo and Cargo for Granderson? Though, the Rox may have to add some prospects.
Because the computer says so. Maybe the Rockies will package Tulo and Cargo for Granderson? Though, the Rox may have to add some prospects.
If used judiciously advanced metrics are very informative. But, yes, you have to take them as just one part of the puzzle.
We all know Tulo is way better than Tejada. But the fact that their WAR are almost identical is something to consider. Tulo's defense seems really to have declined, no doubt because of injuries.
@msimonespn
An image showing how Mets OF Michael Conforto was pitched to in each AB Saturday. And how he did (hint: well!)
Conforto swings at strikes. That's what you like about him. The only exception is outside fastballs, which he tries to take the other way.
But his ability to to lay off the low inside pitch is impressive. Duda still can't do it.
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and that's why advance metrics have become completely overdone. Tulo =Tejada and Tulo < Granderson.
Because the computer says so. Maybe the Rockies will package Tulo and Cargo for Granderson? Though, the Rox may have to add some prospects.
If used judiciously advanced metrics are very informative. But, yes, you have to take them as just one part of the puzzle.
We all know Tulo is way better than Tejada. But the fact that their WAR are almost identical is something to consider. Tulo's defense seems really to have declined, no doubt because of injuries.
Anybody would take Tulo over Tejada but how about looking at it to tell that Tulo really isn't having the best year? Why is this so hard for people to comprehend? Tull's 2015 pales in comparison to a "Tulo in his prime year" Its also important to point out considering he has had a series of hip injuries and might even need the" A-Rod procedure" soon. And I really don't get why people think wRC+ is some advanced thing. Its freaking essentially OPS which is EXTREMELY useful when looking at a players offensive value. This isn't some hoky poky thing. lol
.315 / .380 / .568 (27 HRs, 95 RBIs, 529 PA's)
2015
.305 / .353 / .478 (on pace for 20 HRs, 89 RBIs, 540 PA's)
Right now his K rate is higher so that's a concern I suppose and obviously it's possible his defense has gone backwards (though he is still rated pretty well there with a 0 DRS). But generally speaking his main numbers are pretty similar across the board. Maybe this year he's been a little over aggressive or just trying to do a too much? I'm most encouraged by his road numbers honestly.
If I'm giving up a kings ransom its for guys who can be in their prime with the pitching core, not injured or injury prone 30 year olds at athleticism-dependent positions like Gomez and Tulo.
I'm also leery to give up on Lagares. He's having his worst season to so far but he's still a 26 year old GG winner at one of the most important defensive positions. And he was solid offensively last year. He was looking like a Simmons caliber player in 2014.
I also don't like trotting out a corner outfielder in CF to add a .800 OPS outfielder like Bruce or Cespedes.
I also heard Justin Turner on the radio say, Marlon Byrd was the one who helped him turn it around offensively.
Frazier makes a ton of sense especially because he can play first if Duda continues sucking. I am leery about trading for him off of his best season by far.
Frazier would cost a TON right now and by all accounts, he's really not even available. The Reds want to hang onto him.
We have Murphy, Uribe, and still possibly Wright in September for third. Im sure Johnson could play there in a pinch too. Hell add Flores and Tejada to the list. Hell, even Cuddyer as a 7th option has tons of games at third if it were an emergency!
Think we are covered at third now.
Joel Sherman reports Mets now more interested in trading for setup man than bat. Remember, Jenrry Mejia ineligible for postseason.
I'd like to see them move anyone but the 4 pitchers, Familia and Conforto to get a young, cornerstone type position player to build around. Not sure who though.
Joel Sherman reports Mets now more interested in trading for setup man than bat. Remember, Jenrry Mejia ineligible for postseason.
K-Rod would make a lot of sense.
He's having his first superstar type season at 29. Do you really think he'd bring back a superstar return based on him producing at this level for one season at 29?
Still love Bruce but then you have three guys for two spots heading into 2016 and you likely HAVE to find a taker for Granderson in the offseason.
Think Gomez and Tulo actually do make most sense position wise if you are considering 2016 although Ive voiced my complaints on both. A rental like Cespedes gives us a fantastic shot this year and you worry about the offseason in the offseason.
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push for Bruce. Enough discussing Frazier. He'd cost one of those "OMG ALL of that? deals". Syndergaard + significantly more
He's having his first superstar type season at 29. Do you really think he'd bring back a superstar return based on him producing at this level for one season at 29?
What? His 2015 is a replica of nearly every season he's ever had. Exact opposite of a "first superstar season". He has 2 top 10 MVP voting seasons already
The Mets reportedly really are making a push for him. Not my opinion. I would try Granderson in CF, can't be any worse than what Lagares is giving them but obviously the Mets have a plan.
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In comment 12386192 DanMetroMan said:
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push for Bruce. Enough discussing Frazier. He'd cost one of those "OMG ALL of that? deals". Syndergaard + significantly more
He's having his first superstar type season at 29. Do you really think he'd bring back a superstar return based on him producing at this level for one season at 29?
What? His 2015 is a replica of nearly every season he's ever had. Exact opposite of a "first superstar season". He has 2 top 10 MVP voting seasons already
Think he is talking about Frazier, not Bruce.
2010- 5.1 fWAR, .281/.353/.493 (which came with a .334 BABIP vs. career .293), this season .253/.338/.470, .294 BABIP #Mets
Bruce's second best season ever 2013 (finished 10th in MVP voting) .262/.329/.478, 4.2 fWAR
100% cool with people not wanting to give up X for Bruce but this idea he's suddenly "good" is flat out false. No way around it
This game very well may come down to who doesn't make key mistakes. Hopefully the guys keep their heads in the game and don't make any errors, both physical and mental.
Is Conforto and Bruce MINUS the boatload of prospects it took to get him as your CO in 2016 that big of an upgrade over Conforto and Granderon? Sure he's younger and probably better overall but not sure its a HUGE difference.
Assuming we had to dump Granderosn in the offseason because of Bruce....
26 players in baseball were more valuable than Frazier last year, this year 7.
Since opening day 2014 10 players have been better, since opening day 2013, 15 players have been better. His contract is incredible. His price would be IMMENSE.
Bruce is also considered a very good RF'er, correct?
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doing deGrom and Greinke things.
This game very well may come down to who doesn't make key mistakes. Hopefully the guys keep their heads in the game and don't make any errors, both physical and mental.
And there it is, and error and the lead
Heard Mets still pursuing bats. For instance, they still have interest in Parra, even after deal w/Brewers fell through earlier this week.
And if Pederson doesn't flub the ball in CF, does Kirk make it home on Granderson's liner to Puig?
Heard Mets still pursuing bats. For instance, they still have interest in Parra, even after deal w/Brewers fell through earlier this week.
Great! Id still love Parra. I guess you DFA Kirk, but Parra at the top of the lineup and moving Granderson's power into the middle of the lineup would be a nice upgrade.
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but if Murph gets that hit last inning another run scores
And if Pederson doesn't flub the ball in CF, does Kirk make it home on Granderson's liner to Puig?
I don't concern myself with the opposing teams errors, I enjoy them (grin).
Pedro used to dance around Mets clubhouse naked in a Yoda mask and boxing gloves. Guess that's not happening for the induction ceremony.
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Marc Carig @MarcCarig
Heard Mets still pursuing bats. For instance, they still have interest in Parra, even after deal w/Brewers fell through earlier this week.
Great! Id still love Parra. I guess you DFA Kirk, but Parra at the top of the lineup and moving Granderson's power into the middle of the lineup would be a nice upgrade.
Yeah, fit-wise I really think Parra makes the most sense.
I really, really want Cespedes or Bruce it just makes the alignments a little funky but I am guessing the Mets would have a plan for that.
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Adam Rubin @AdamRubinESPN 13s14 seconds ago
Joel Sherman reports Mets now more interested in trading for setup man than bat. Remember, Jenrry Mejia ineligible for postseason.
K-Rod would make a lot of sense.
They need to train Robles to take over Mejia's role. They have enough good pitching to not have to trade for a reliever.
Or if Syndergaard hits his innings limits maybe its Harvey, deGrom, Matz, and Niese with Syndergaard in the pen. Either way we could have a NASTY option back there.
Or if Syndergaard hits his innings limits maybe its Harvey, deGrom, Matz, and Niese with Syndergaard in the pen. Either way we could have a NASTY option back there.
I think Matz or Thor will be in the BP during the post season so I agree. That's why bat is still higher on the priority list to me.
Niese can't be an effective LOOGY? Im sure we would be covered either way.
By then it would have been almost 6 months! It should heal by then.
Maybe he finally realizes he isn't Mighty Mouse, but a singles hitter
Greinke is a ground ball pitcher so easier said than done
Come on. 2-0.
Sure would be nice if Familia can get a 4 or 5 out save today.... oh wait.
Terry collins will find a way to get the pen involved.
Yea that was my initial thought also, he didn't make much of an effort to get out of the way. Oh well, its an rbi so its all good.
Im starting to think deGrom is the best pitcher in baseball. lol
Yup. I guess some of the early Braves teams too even though Smoltz himself has said they paled in comparison to what we have working talent wise.
Its just so damn exciting. I want to get my foot in the door this year.
Like bringing in Torres...
At 113 pitches and more balls this inning you go to the bullpen
Or maybe having not pitched since Tuesday using him in an easy inning yesterday didn't allow him to get stale to where he would be less effective today when he needs to be sharp.
1997 Braves with Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Neagle, and Millwood was maybe the best rotation in recent history.
Neagle won 20 games that year.
1997 Braves with Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Neagle, and Millwood was maybe the best rotation in recent history.
Neagle won 20 games that year.
The Mets rotation might be able to top that.. god willing with our offense
Heart of the order coming up, it just may happen.
1997 Braves with Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Neagle, and Millwood was maybe the best rotation in recent history.
Neagle won 20 games that year.
Ok well first. None of those A's pitchers ever really had the reputation of "best in the game" type of stature like deGrom is approaching now and Harvey did in 2013. Second. Neale was a free agent addition after playing with the Twins and other teams earlier in his career. Not really the same thing.
Just need the red hot Giants to lose some
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Mulder, and Zito were all sub-25, in the playoffs and all came up from the A's, that's impressive.
1997 Braves with Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Neagle, and Millwood was maybe the best rotation in recent history.
Neagle won 20 games that year.
The Mets rotation might be able to top that.. god willing with our offense
All said and done I hope they are thought of as the best, but until there are accomplishments and accolades like those other rotations it's all potential.
The Braves team have a ring, 3 HOF-ers, multiple Cy youngs, and all-stars
the A's slightly less, no ring (except Zito with SF that I knwo of) multiple all-stars, and some cy youngs.
the Mets are not as young as some might think, and so far have a ROY, and 2-all-stars.
people need to stop putting them in Cooperstown until there are some accomplishments, full season accomplishments.
today, I'd even have the the 1986 or 1988 Mets rotations better rotations than this one
1986: Gooden, Darling, Ojeda, El-Sid, and Aggie
1988: Gooden, Darling, Cone, Ojeda, El-Sid
The Reds' sale has started. Chapman, Leake, Bruce, others on the block now.
Chris Cotillo @ChrisCotillo 5m5 minutes ago
Reds were focused on dealing Cueto first. Floodgates on their sale could now open.
Just talking about young controllable aces that broke in with a team that were all making peanuts.
Talent wise I think we got that easy.
Im not referring to what players ended up doing for their careers or rotations that made free agent additions, ect. lol
mets took on exactly $2.5M in uribe/johnson deal. so braves chip in close to 500K. (uribe '15 salary $6.5M, KJ 1.5M)
He's had MVP votes.
You can only hope deGrom has a career like Tim Hudson.
no idea why you get so euphoric and have to go on with the superlatives.
Harvey is 26 years old with 21 career wins. Zito had 3 times as many wins at the same age.
let these guys pitch before crowning them, would you?
And how is Neagle being signed as a FA any different than Thor being acquired in a trade?
Bruce sounds like one of their top targets at the moment.
Thats what Im referring to. Talent wise I don't think Ive ever seen that.
so did I and today they're better (1986). Recency theory at it's best.
none of these guys are Gooden. None. I'm not even sure it's close. If you think they are you didn't see Gooden.
Darling, El-Sid, both top of the rotation starters in their primes.
Ojeda not a power pitcher, but as a 4th starter he was among best in the league and aggie was pure gas as the 5th starter.
injuries, the aneurysm, etc.
he should be. he's 6 away from 200 wins. I think that would have gotten him in or close.
Maybe, maybe not. Still wasn't ideal pitching him yesterday.
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Not everything is the managers fault. Familia isn't a robot. Unfortunately he didn't have it today. Came at the worst time possible.
Maybe, maybe not. Still wasn't ideal pitching him yesterday.
C'mon man, he needs 4 days rest? If throwing 9 pitches rendered him ineffective the next day he shouldn't be in the majors.
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In comment 12386417 arcarsenal said:
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Not everything is the managers fault. Familia isn't a robot. Unfortunately he didn't have it today. Came at the worst time possible.
Maybe, maybe not. Still wasn't ideal pitching him yesterday.
C'mon man, he needs 4 days rest? If throwing 9 pitches rendered him ineffective the next day he shouldn't be in the majors.
Arc, it's hard to argue with your logical answer. But I'm not wired to give Collins credit for anything, lol. He used up any good will I may have for him years ago, lol.
Crazy. Jeurys Familia 0-for-2 on save conversions since the All-Star break.
Crazy. Jeurys Familia 0-for-2 on save conversions since the All-Star break.
Sandy has to call the Reds about Chapman
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In comment 12386434 PhiPsi125 said:
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In comment 12386417 arcarsenal said:
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Not everything is the managers fault. Familia isn't a robot. Unfortunately he didn't have it today. Came at the worst time possible.
Maybe, maybe not. Still wasn't ideal pitching him yesterday.
C'mon man, he needs 4 days rest? If throwing 9 pitches rendered him ineffective the next day he shouldn't be in the majors.
Arc, it's hard to argue with your logical answer. But I'm not wired to give Collins credit for anything, lol. He used up any good will I may have for him years ago, lol.
LOL, I know man.. it's all good. As great as Familia has been this year, this one's on him. Sucks it happened today, we really need this one. Have to find a way.
And come on, Kirk.. JFC..
Tejada had a beauty of a bunt before.
I wouldn't expect Kirk to be any good at bunts unfortunately. Let him swing for the fences
maybe it's time to rethink that
Can't really fault Collins for last night but then I don't think you should ask him to get a four out save the next day.
The 0-1 FB he swung through was right down the middle too. Really bad AB but Kirk completely F'd up that inning.
The off day tomorrow means the best relievers pitch first.
a lame bunt attempt and two flailing strikeouts
His zone has been terrible all afternoon
Joc Pederson sac fly coming up
it worked a couple of times early on when Mets pen was shaky
but now getting into the dog days Familia should be used more traditionally. He's probably tired physically and emotionally. Reduce the strain
The narrative would then become "Familia only threw 9 pitches last night and had 3 days off before that, he should have been in there for the 4 out save and Collins got too cute and fucked up as usual"
Sometimes these guys are in situations they can't win.
The narrative would then become "Familia only threw 9 pitches last night and had 3 days off before that, he should have been in there for the 4 out save and Collins got too cute and fucked up as usual"
Sometimes these guys are in situations they can't win.
He cant win. Last time Parnell blew it in the 8 and Collins learned from that experience. Now its Familias turn
The narrative would then become "Familia only threw 9 pitches last night and had 3 days off before that, he should have been in there for the 4 out save and Collins got too cute and fucked up as usual"
Sometimes these guys are in situations they can't win.
Apparently no matter how you slice it Collins will be a moron and will have made the obvious wrong decision.
What I don't get is if a pitcher "needs work"
why not have him throw on the side. Why bring a closer in to a game like yesterday? Having played baseball up until college, but never pitched, is actual pitching that much different than getting in work?
It's ok to actually blame the player sometimes. Familia wasn't good today. It's rare but it's going to happen.
We're in a position to win this thing right here.
this. We are lousy at getting base hits.
The Mets can do neither.
It's ok to actually blame the player sometimes. Familia wasn't good today. It's rare but it's going to happen.
We're in a position to win this thing right here.
not sure if in reply to my post, if so, it has nothing to do with what I said.
What I don't get is if a pitcher "needs work"
why not have him throw on the side. Why bring a closer in to a game like yesterday? Having played baseball up until college, but never pitched, is actual pitching that much different than getting in work?
I can't answer your question but having watched baseball for close to fifty years one thing I have heard from pitchers, and former players analyzing the games is that many closers prefer steady work routines in order to stay sharp and not get rusty and that lack of use can really have a negative effect on them.
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...the manager still would have been blamed. That's just how it is. Fans always use hindsight to change the narrative. It's too easy to do.
It's ok to actually blame the player sometimes. Familia wasn't good today. It's rare but it's going to happen.
We're in a position to win this thing right here.
not sure if in reply to my post, if so, it has nothing to do with what I said.
Had nothing to do with your post.
They've used everyone good
Howell
Nicasio
Jansen
And that's a winner for the Mets!
What the fuck, lmao
Yeah he ripped that. I thought it was leaving the ballpark.
What the fuck, lmao
LMFAO!!!
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hit a ball that far in the last two seasons.
Yeah he ripped that. I thought it was leaving the ballpark.
not a pinch hitter but normally Campbell would be taking these at bats and do very little with it
Lets hope our bullpen doesn't fail us now after half of a season of managerial abuse.
It's been a while. Ike Davis hit a walk-off Grand slam last year that I recall being a bomb, that was early though iirc.
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That's probably out in like half of the parks in this league. Getting closer to looking like a team that can really compete.
Lets hope our bullpen doesn't fail us now after half of a season of managerial abuse.
Mejia and Parnell are pretty fresh so Terry would have to really abuse them (or they'd just not pitch well)
why is it douchey to say, I think we all were, just that some of us hope it isn't the only moves the FO makes. Some people are clamoring for Parra. I don't think Parra is a "we're going for it" move, I think he's a settling probably buy high move. Gomez, Upton, Cespedes, Tulo IMO those are we're pushing in our chips to the center of the table and going for it kind of move.
and I hope a move like that can be done without core assets. but who knows. and that's just my personal preference.
Totally agree. Baseball is like that. Uribe could wind up having a better two months than Tulo, Upton, Bruce etc . . .
I assume he is just being modest and not wanting anyone to think he is just saying he wanted that type of trade after the fact. It wasn't necessary to say but nice that he did.
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why is it douchey to say
I assume he is just being modest and not wanting anyone to think he is just saying he wanted that type of trade after the fact. It wasn't necessary to say but nice that he did.
False modesty on my part. It's so easy to say "good trade" after the guys get timely hits.
But generally I've been supportive of small scale trades. I dont think this is the year to push the chips to the middle of the table for pending UFAs, and the assets I'd be most okay moving, Wheeler, Montero, Nimmo and one of the catchers, all could use some time to recover value.
Agreed, but the extra year of control, team option in 2017, and the Brewers asking price I would be happy with Bruce. He would be a big upgrade and change the complexion of this lineup.
Yes there was. There was that bullshit report that we couldn't even take on Zobrists 3 million dollars which caused panic and was utter crap. Then after they heard the Braves were chipping in cash they thought it was most of their contracts. It wasn't. I think Sandy probably STILL has an extra 5-10 million right now judging by the players he's been connected with in trade rumors.
As for what you are talking about concerning Wright? We have close to a complete roster right now, especially if we bring in a Gomez or a Bruce and thats including next year. If we don't, with Colon, Murphy, Parnell, Gee, and possibly Niese coming off the books in 2016 I absolutely think we can add one player in their place. It won't be impossible.
but whatever, I don't judge (or I try not to) and I guess some people do, so no harm in saying it.
My theory is the Mets CAN BE good enough to win now. they have a legit rotation, a legit bullpen (normally) and deficiencies in the lineup, if they can get a bat and get TDA back plus a couple guys come out of their funks like Duda and this team is a contender THIS year.
I'm not saying be impatient, but if you can get Upton with a window to negotiate an extension or Tulo, I do it and hope to win this year.
Mets pitchers Noah Syndergaard and Logan Verrett riding the 7 from the game. John Rocker would be proud.
Saturday - JdG vs. Ross
Sunday - Thor vs. Zimmerman
Obviously they have 3 games against SD first, but if they can take care of business and make the 1 big move they're looking for, that's going to be an electric atmosphere.
He's not my only choice, I'd be fine with him, but it's the point. If the Mets try and get Parra or Venable and say hey look "we're going for it" I think it's settling.
think about it, the dodgers gets Hamels (for example) and the Mets answer is Parra or Venable. I just don't think it's enough.
if the Nats get Kimbrel or Papelbon or Price or someone like that and the Mets get Venable.
Whether it's Tulo or Cespedes or Upton or I guess Bruce though I think less of him, I just think the Mets have the potential to compete (for a title) this year and they have the assets, so I'd like to see them truly go for it.
Even if it doesn't work, I can respect it.
I'll admit, he scares me. Injury concerns, age, money and Coors Field pushes the bust potential sky high. But, I think that he potentially changes the character of the team in a way that no other possibly available player does.
What's reasonable, though? Damned if I know.
He was 2-5 and DH'd today. Caught 5 innings yesterday.
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2-3 today.
He was 2-5 and DH'd today. Caught 5 innings yesterday.
Yeah when I posted that it was up to the minute.
Playoff lineup.
1.) Gomez
2.) Granderson
3.) Wright
4.) Duda
5.) Tulowitzki
6.) Murphy
7.) TDA
8.) Conforto
Bench. Uribe, Johnson, Cuddyer, Flores, Plawecki
and then I woke up.. lol
Hell, I think we can make a run right now if TDA and Matz come back healthy. We are at least as good as the Cubs and Giants(who have a brutal stretch coming up)
I love the trade we made already and if we did nothing else I won't be too upset. That said, I can't see it. We are literally connected to every big name out there. Sandy is working the phones and I expect something else.
Really can't wait til next weekend. Hoping we have TdA back +1 more bat. Golden opportunity to steal this division from them.
After this brutal July I don't feel the least bit bad about it either.
Mets wanted Braves to take back Mayberry, Braves paid them to just cut him. Couldn't help but laugh thinking back to some of the offseason debates about Mayberry ;)
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The Mets took on 2.5 million dollars in the Uribe and Johnson deals. The Braves chipped in 500,000. Pretty much exactly what I predicted.
Mets wanted Braves to take back Mayberry, Braves paid them to just cut him. Couldn't help but laugh thinking back to some of the offseason debates about Mayberry ;)
Lol. You sure like gloating. Haha. I stand by the signing. His entire career he pounded lefties. Sometimes shit just doesn't work out.
2.) Granderson
3.) Murphy/Uribe/Wright
4.) Duda/Cuddyer
5.) TDA
6.) Johnson/Flores
7.) Conforto/Cuddyer
8.) Tejada/Flores
Ton of flexibility and depth in that lineup. Maybe go after a Clippard and lets go to war.
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The Mets took on 2.5 million dollars in the Uribe and Johnson deals. The Braves chipped in 500,000. Pretty much exactly what I predicted.
Mets wanted Braves to take back Mayberry, Braves paid them to just cut him. Couldn't help but laugh thinking back to some of the offseason debates about Mayberry ;)
I can't even kill the Mets for this one. Mayberry was excellent against lefties for most of his career up to this point and this year just absolutely sucked against everyone. Typical and expected.. most of what we touch seems to turn to shit as soon as the Met uniform is donned. But hopefully we'll have a little more luck going forward.
Of course he would blow as a Met. Now we'll watch him latch on with the Yankees and go right back to crushing lefties again.
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He has to be in the conversation for the Cy Young
Saturday - JdG vs. Ross
Sunday - Thor vs. Zimmerman
Obviously they have 3 games against SD first, but if they can take care of business and make the 1 big move they're looking for, that's going to be an electric atmosphere.
At least we got the correct 3 starters to face the Nats
but whatever, I don't judge (or I try not to) and I guess some people do, so no harm in saying it.
My theory is the Mets CAN BE good enough to win now. they have a legit rotation, a legit bullpen (normally) and deficiencies in the lineup, if they can get a bat and get TDA back plus a couple guys come out of their funks like Duda and this team is a contender THIS year.
I'm not saying be impatient, but if you can get Upton with a window to negotiate an extension or Tulo, I do it and hope to win this year.
yup they are a healthy Wright and TDA away from being contenders.. Unfortunately, we might never be sure about DW
Cespedes/Upton/Parra are interesting, but only if the price is cheaper since they're rentals.
it's a half-assed move. Cespedes at least has more of a CF track record.
That's why I think one of the MIL OFers makes more sense. They can both play CF. I'd obviously prefer Gomez.
I certainly won't be bummed if we acquire Cespedes or Reddick though. Add talent and let it sort itself out.
his RF defense is barely adequate, I think in CF he'd be a problem.
His arm sucks, but it's no different than the current situation, so unless we are making Kirk our starting CF or trade for Parra Gomez, I don't see that as something that as a downgrade.
I think most of us were operating under the hypothetical that Conforto busts out right away so then what do we do?
Lagares should not play against righthanders ever again. Judging by what Collins has done the last two days Im thinking thats were they are headed. For now it will be Kirk/Lagares with Kirk getting 80% of the abats. If we acquired Parra he would replace Kirk.
Who knows? Maybe the guy had something wrong between his ears and the reality of being released cleared his head.
That's the "Alderson" AB the system preaches. Not just his walk, but his aggressive first pitch swing which contradicts what most people think of. They are on the way, and it will dramatically change the lineup. Conforto, Plawecki, Nimmo, Cech, Reynolds, etc all buy into it big time. Add those guys and add talent to the lineup with the pitching...
C'mon Ira. You honestly think the Mets are looking to add a guy like Bruce to then sit Conforto for 2016? Does that sounds realistic at all?
I think Keith had it right. Uribe's a vet with rings and a reputation, Hererra is still a prospect. That supersedes the number. Everything I've heard regarding the mets is that they like Dilson Hererra a lot and want him to be the 2B going forward when he's ready
I'd be SHOCKED if we don't see Herrera after 9/1. His speed on the bench alone would be reason to carry him. Expanded rosters means the ability to carry specialists
2- The more I look at Clippard I'm scared he's in decline
Zack Wheeler will clear a rehab milestone today. He's throwing for the first time since undergoing Tommy John surgery four months ago.
Blevins will meet with the doctor on Thursday. Gotta figure he's either going to be cleared to begin throwing (which would mean he'd be back around 8/31) or he'll likely be done for the season.
Far from a doctor but it sure seems like his bone is healing slower than it should be
It's obviously serious but he was expected to be cleared for throwing on 6/11 so an additional 6 weeks seems unusual.
No way they are moving Granderson to CF with a staff full of flyball pitchers. The difference between Grandy and Lagares defensively would more than offset any offensive gains unless you are adding a major bat. You don't solve one problem by creating another.
If they are looking at the OF, it is more a guy that can play CF. That leaves:
Gomez: they would have to be able to move Lagares's contract to get this done
Parra: the best fit. He and Lagares can split time and you don't have to trade the farm to get him. Brewers are just holding out trying to play the market. Melvin will definitely move him.
Venable: fallback option. The only problem he has hit under .200 for July. Don't really see him as better than Kirk. Seems more like making a move for the sake of making a move. But he would also come cheap since he basically is not very good. Has a cool name, though.
that rumor makes no sense
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Sources: Mets asked re:Andrelton Simmons, but the conversation went nowhere with ATL, which basically placed an unreachable price tag on him
Longterm maybe. He does nothing to solve the hitting woes this year and would cost a boatload in prospects
the rumor makes no sense whatsoever
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is a HOF caliber defensive player already worth 2.2 WAR. He'd be an great fit for the Mets and has a great contract.
Longterm maybe. He does nothing to solve the hitting woes this year and would cost a boatload in prospects
the rumor makes no sense whatsoever
No he wouldn't solve the hitting woes but you don't need your SS to do such a thing. He can hit 8th and do what he does. There were rumors the Mets inquired before the season when the Braves were selling off. I'm not shocked at all.
Love Jose but Toronto is looking to add "big" pitchers so I don't really see a fit. The Mets don't have a big SP to spare and the Blue Jays are 3 games out of the WC so unless the Mets are sending prospects to another team that sends this big pitcher to Toronto it's tough to see how it would happen.
Pre-season I felt like re-acquiring Reyes would be huge, solves lead-off and fills shortstop.
but he's not good defensively any more.
So I've become much more lukewarm on him.
I'd still probably do it, but just not at the same price and he's like to regress as he ages (obviously?)
I'm not shocked. Reyes has always been an "athlete" fielder meaning his physical tools made up for "iffy" instincts/actions at SS.
he's on pace for a career high in errors, maybe it's a a blip and maybe back on the grass field he'd be better though not sure if that's a thing or not.
lol, must be frosty in hell today.
where? Did they finally designate him for assignment?
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Is that Bigfoot? Loch Ness? Nope... Cesar Puello is playing! #Mets
where? Did they finally designate him for assignment?
Listed in the GCL box score as in the game (as is Matt Reynolds rehabbing) Lindsay 2 run single.
I haven't see too much of Gomez, so would someone please explain what type of player he is and what you guys think he'll bring to this team with his bat and defense?
I haven't see too much of Gomez, so would someone please explain what type of player he is and what you guys think he'll bring to this team with his bat and defense?
Gomez is a 5 tool player who was one of the best players in baseball 2013-2014 and in 2015 started slowly yet is still on pace to be an above average regular. Power, speed, glove, contract. Dynamic player.
All star in 13 and 14, but not this year. This is just my opinion, but I don't think he's a game changer for the Mets, per se.
Plus he's under contract for next year at $9M.
that's like Daniel Murphy money and he's a FA in 2017 so if he flourishes you can resign him and if not just cut ties and replace him.
I think he's a good target.
It really seems like Sandy is leaving no stone unturned. Carig reported that he thinks the Parra deal was agreed to in terms of prospects but then the Brewers broke it off because the interest in him was higher than expected. Parra really could make the most sense as a pick up if they think he can be a long term platoon partner/leadoff hitter with Lagares. My #1 hope is still Gomez and am relatively surprised that it's been pretty quiet on him rumor wise. Wonder if the Mets are putting the Bruce stuff out there as a semi-bluff to get other teams thinking it's more of a buyers market than it is.
Still would love to get Gomez, but if its costing Nimmo, Fulmer, Cecchini, ect for Gomez
or just second tier players for Parra
I'd probably side with Parra. Totally depends on what's being asked.
He does, did an MRI in June and found only irritation but that's of course a concern.
Id be very satisfied.
Uribe, Johnson, Conforto, TDA, Parra, and K-Rod all added to this team within a week would be a massive upgrade.
-Didn't like Nimmo's swing (called it long), said his season has been disappointing, has turned into a "groundball machine"
-Lara 89-93 with good life fringe average slider, relievers delivery
-Gant middle reliever upside, Whalen potential MLB #5 in a Gee mold
Meh, from what I've read Late July was always the plan and he's only throwing from 25 feet. I don't think it's related to the deadline at all to be honest. Harvey was 4 months and Wheeler is nearly 4 months to the day.
Z he's done 3 times: 19, 24 and 23 hrs. He's a 20 HR guy.
Still would love to get Gomez, but if its costing Nimmo, Fulmer, Cecchini, ect for Gomez
or just second tier players for Parra
I'd probably side with Parra. Totally depends on what's being asked.
Gomez has 8 HRs already so why is he on pace for 12 HRs?
Desmond Lindsay was 2-for-4 with 2 rbi and a run scored today. 3 knocks in his first 2 games as a pro.
#Mets making progress on trade for #Athletics Clippard, sources tell me and @jonmorosi. Other teams still in play. Deal expected soon.
that rumor makes no sense
What's with your love of double play stats lol? Anyway, he's the best defensive player in baseball at one of the most important defensive positions. You have him and Lagares (2014) version and you can just load up on offense at all the other positions.
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I've seen several posters who want Gomez in center field, say that he's our best trade option as it solves two issues in our lineup. First by getting speed at the top of the lineup with Gomez and then also by moving Granderson down to either 4th or 5th.
I haven't see too much of Gomez, so would someone please explain what type of player he is and what you guys think he'll bring to this team with his bat and defense?
Gomez is a 5 tool player who was one of the best players in baseball 2013-2014 and in 2015 started slowly yet is still on pace to be an above average regular. Power, speed, glove, contract. Dynamic player.
Hip injury. Not nearly as fast. 30. A player whose game relies on athleticism. Pass.
I was thinking more just being uncomfortable with new batters/DH/living on the west coast. Could be anything. If velocity, age, medical are clear and the price is fair it's worth rolling the dice.
Source: Mets, A's indeed making progress on Tyler Clippard deal, as @ken_rosenthal said. No Ben Zobrist involvement in these talks.
To me, if the price is less than Montero I'm happy. I would not give up Montero for Clippard personally, and obviously if it's anything more that I'd consider it an overpay.
Can confirm @kenrosenthal was a told #Mets working "real hard" to close deal for Clippard. Minor league P again is main bait.
The fact that he's been good against lefties is a nice bonus considering Blevins is still an unknown.
Travis d'Arnaud should catch seven innings today, nine innings Wednesday. That would set up his activation for Nats series.
Travis d'Arnaud should catch seven innings today, nine innings Wednesday. That would set up his activation for Nats series.
Adam Rubin
Lost track of days. 7 tonight, 9 tomorrow for Travis d'Arnaud. Then potential activation.