NFT: MLB trade rumors

In comment 12386054 sphinx said:

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Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 15s15 seconds ago Source: #Royals getting Cueto.

I've never been a "good story" guy, but I love seeing the Royals go for it.

Cueto might make them the AL favorite if they aren't already.

Only thing is.. ~430 of those innings were 3 years ago. Cespedes has barely played CF at all since then. Bruce hasn't touched CF in years.

I agree that logically, Lagares has to become the 4th OFer / late game defensive sub. I would just worry about the CF defense if that were the case.

In comment 12386040 arcarsenal said:

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My only question is.. what happens if the Mets land one of those guys? Don't tell me they're going to send Conforto back down if they do. And putting Granderson in CF would be a large downgrade defensively. My question too. Granderson goes to the bench? Conforto is the future if he hits .280 or above you have to keep him up. Just not sure how it shakes out. And this isn't even mentioning Cuddyer even though he certainly doesn't warrant anything more than a platoon or 4th/5th OF spot at this point.

And there is no way that Sox trade Bogarts. Unless they have another SS who they think is better ready to come up.

In comment 12386056 dpinzow said:

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In comment 12386052 pjcas18 said: Quote: I like Gray but that's ridiculous. one of the two and some lesser prospects, not both. You said Gray would be worth a king's ransom in trade, well there you go

The Red Sox have the #1 ranked farm system by Keith Law (take that for what you will), that king's ransom would be something like Bogaerts or Betts + Devers and Moncada

maybe even have the Sox throw in Eduardo Rodriguez, but Bogaerts and Betts are both top 5 in all of MLB at their positions, top 10 at worst at a young age, not just typical Red Sox prospect hype.

would be Betts or Bogaerts plus at least Boston's top minor league arm and another top prospect at the AA level that Oakland thinks will contribute in the bigs. Gray is an ace for the next decade, possibly more barring injury

In comment 12386058 pjcas18 said:

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In comment 12386054 sphinx said: Quote: Ken Rosenthal �@Ken_Rosenthal 15s15 seconds ago Source: #Royals getting Cueto. I've never been a "good story" guy, but I love seeing the Royals go for it. Cueto might make them the AL favorite if they aren't already.

I agree. Especially with the Tigers being sellers this year.

In comment 12386067 dpinzow said:

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would be Betts or Bogaerts plus at least Boston's top minor league arm and another top prospect at the AA level that Oakland thinks will contribute in the bigs. Gray is an ace for the next decade, possibly more barring injury

That is much better. I agree that one of the two is needed to even keep talks going. I still think that Boston is not willing to trade either one.

In comment 12386065 superspynyg said:

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And there is no way that Sox trade Bogarts. Unless they have another SS who they think is better ready to come up.

Huh? Gray has similar stats pitching against DH-lineups most of the time, is three years younger than DeGrom and doesn't have Harvey's injury history. Have you ever seen him pitch? As a Yankee fan it would be a disaster to see Gray in Boston.

I know as a Mets fan you think Harvey and DeGrom are the two best pitchers in the game but there are starters out there as good as those two at the moment, as hard as it is for you to believe. Gray is one of those

In comment 12386060 arcarsenal said:

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Only thing is.. ~430 of those innings were 3 years ago. Cespedes has barely played CF at all since then. Bruce hasn't touched CF in years. I agree that logically, Lagares has to become the 4th OFer / late game defensive sub. I would just worry about the CF defense if that were the case.

I think Granderson is likely the guy that goes to CF and honestly I think he'd just as good as he currently is in RF. I think he's pretty average overall in RF and even though CF is a more important defensive position his strengths will play better. His arm isn't any worse than Lagares' right now.

Cespedes/Bruce/Reddick meanwhile would each likely be a slight upgrade over Granderson in RF due to the arm, so really I don't think the overall fall off is as big as we think. All of these guys are career +DRS players, so while we are losing elite range in CF, the OF overall is not necessarily becoming a weakness. It's not like we are putting Duda or Murphy out there.

Gray (#15) actually has a higher trade value than either DeGrom (#20) or Harvey (#27).

Betts (#10) has a higher trade value than all of them, but don't understand that one because having seen him play against the Yanks, I think he's overrated

DeGrom is 16 months older than Gray. 3 years older is an exaggeration. Long term I would take DeGrom over Gray. Unless you're Pedro Martinez, 5'11 pitchers don't enjoy dominant stretches of time.

In comment 12386090 dpinzow said:

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Gray (#15) actually has a higher trade value than either DeGrom (#20) or Harvey (#27). Betts (#10) has a higher trade value than all of them, but don't understand that one because having seen him play against the Yanks, I think he's overrated

that's an amazingly large sample size. I need to re-think my opinion of him. Thanks.

In comment 12386099 Bill L said:

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In comment 12386090 dpinzow said: Quote: Gray (#15) actually has a higher trade value than either DeGrom (#20) or Harvey (#27). Betts (#10) has a higher trade value than all of them, but don't understand that one because having seen him play against the Yanks, I think he's overrated that's an amazingly large sample size. I need to re-think my opinion of him. Thanks.

Betts is good but not the 10th or 11th most valuable trade piece in baseball and not worth a cost-controlled ace (all of whom should be at the top of this chart unless your name is Harper, Trout, Stanton, Rizzo, Bryant, McCutchen or Goldschmidt)

In comment 12386090 dpinzow said:

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Gray (#15) actually has a higher trade value than either DeGrom (#20) or Harvey (#27). Betts (#10) has a higher trade value than all of them, but don't understand that one because having seen him play against the Yanks, I think he's overrated

Fangraph's are like real estate. Both are only worth what somebody is willing to pay. Otherwise, it's just a perceived value with not everybody having the same perception. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder as a Gray is more valuable to the Sox than he would be to the Mets.

6 weeks ago every Met fan on the planet would have moved him in a straight salary dump. Now he's better than the entire Red Sox pitching staff and ahead of Wheeler long term in the Mets rotation. Get a grip. Read this stuff before you hit submit. Utter nonsense.

Betts' OPS is .757, OPS+ is 108

In contrast Gardner's OPS is .831, OPS+ 131. Betts has a higher trade value than Gardner because he is much younger but they are similar players

In comment 12386112 dpinzow said:

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Betts' OPS is .757, OPS+ is 108 In contrast Gardner's OPS is .831, OPS+ 131. Betts has a higher trade value than Gardner because he is much younger but they are similar players

Brett Gardner at 22 wasn't even in the big leagues.

In comment 12386114 chris r said:

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In comment 12386112 dpinzow said: Quote: Betts' OPS is .757, OPS+ is 108 In contrast Gardner's OPS is .831, OPS+ 131. Betts has a higher trade value than Gardner because he is much younger but they are similar players Brett Gardner at 22 wasn't even in the big leagues.

But how much better is he really going to be than Brett Gardner? I don't see an MVP in Betts' future like the other batters at the top of that Fangraphs chart

In comment 12386111 Torrag said:

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6 weeks ago every Met fan on the planet would have moved him in a straight salary dump. Now he's better than the entire Red Sox pitching staff and ahead of Wheeler long term in the Mets rotation. Get a grip. Read this stuff before you hit submit. Utter nonsense.

Hypocrites? Nah, not here

Only one of the big 4 I woukd be willing to trade for a Cole Hammels or Davud Price would be Bird. Something like Bird, Mitchell. and Mason Williams seems fair for both sides. I woukd do that trade. Woukd you? Woukd Philly?

young kid, brought him through our system and he's become a great pitcher. Tough to see him go.

Losing Bruce would be a similar situation, but IMO Bruce is on the downside of his career. Not the player he was two or three seasons ago.

but neither of the teams would take that. The only way they might is if the Yankees agreed to take on the whole remaining salary for Hamels and they were the only team willing to do that. Hamels would probably cost Sanchez, Bird and then some.

actually meant to say Sanchez not Williams. So Bird, Sanchez and Mitchell (and/or Lungrem. I was also assuming we take on Cole's salary. I think that's fair for both sides

In comment 12386153 RDJR said:

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young kid, brought him through our system and he's become a great pitcher. Tough to see him go. Losing Bruce would be a similar situation, but IMO Bruce is on the downside of his career. Not the player he was two or three seasons ago.

Jay Bruce OPS+ is 120, career high is 124. He was 10th in MVP voting with a 120 OPS+ in 2013.

career line-


.251/.325/.467

Bruce this season

.253/.338/.470


Bruce's best season ever

.281/.353/.493 (which came with a .334 BABIP vs. career .293)

He's exactly the same player as he ever was. Amazingly consistent outside of last year.

the Mets are making a strong push for Jay Bruce.

I dont mean this as a knock on Gray's performance at all, but he's a sub 6' righty starter. I think that would depress his value just a touch.

As for the Mets interest in Bruce, that's at least a concession that Cuddy is a bomb and cant be counted on. And in reality you dont chase Bruce with Conforto up if you're sold on another year of Grandy.

In comment 12386184 DanMetroMan said:

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career line- .251/.325/.467 Bruce this season .253/.338/.470 Bruce's best season ever .281/.353/.493 (which came with a .334 BABIP vs. career .293) He's exactly the same player as he ever was. Amazingly consistent outside of last year.

You can cite all the statistics in the world. I watch every Reds' game, Jay Bruce is not the player he was a few years ago. I love him and thought he would be great.

His numbers may look similar at the end of each year, but he is wildly inconsistent. He was one of the worst players in baseball for the first two months of the season this season. He's gotten very hot recently, which has gotten his numbers back to "normal", but that's been the story of his career. He goes two months on a tear, then goes two months where he couldn't hit a beach ball.

In comment 12386508 BigBlueShock said:

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His numbers may look similar at the end of each year, but he is wildly inconsistent. He was one of the worst players in baseball for the first two months of the season this season. He's gotten very hot recently, which has gotten his numbers back to "normal", but that's been the story of his career. He goes two months on a tear, then goes two months where he couldn't hit a beach ball.

This isn't really true at all. He had a fairly crappy April. That was it. He consistently got better each following month.

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April: 22 games, 72 AB's, .181 BA, .310 OBP, ,713 OPS, 25 K, 5 HR, 13 RBI, 14 BB May: 25 games, 90 AB's, .256 BA, .343 OBP, .754 OPS, 21 K, 2 HR, 10 RBI, 12 BB June: 27 games, 99 AB's, .263 BA, .345 OBP, .840 OPS, 21 K, 5 HR, 17 RBI, 13 BB July: 18 games, 71 AB's, .310 BA, .351 OBP, .928 OPS, 18 K, 3 HR, 9 RBI, 5 BB

Those May numbers are awful. Just because he was worse in April doesn't mean that it was a good month

a .181 BA is "fairly crappy"?

He was bad in April. His numbers have consistently gone up across basically the entire board since.

The "wildly inconsistent" narrative really doesn't apply to him this year. He started badly and went up from there and has played his best ball this month. He's a good player.

Very few players don't peak and valley over the course of a 162 game season.

In comment 12386667 arcarsenal said:

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He was bad in April. His numbers have consistently gone up across basically the entire board since. The "wildly inconsistent" narrative really doesn't apply to him this year. He started badly and went up from there and has played his best ball this month. He's a good player. Very few players don't peak and valley over the course of a 162 game season.

You said I wasn't right at all in what I said. Which was his first two months were awful and he's been hot lately and that has gotten his numbers back up. Those numbers you posted proved my point. I'm not sure what the heck your arguing about? Hell, there's a Reds fan on this very thread that agrees with me, yet you still want to argue. It's strange, really. If you've paid any attention to Bruce's career, consistency on a week to week, month to month basis is not what he's known for.

Bruce is a good player. I like him. Saying he is inconsistent is not saying that he's a bad player.

It's a baseball post and I was simply disagreeing that he's been super inconsistent this year. Even if you want to say he was bad in May.. over the last 2 months he's been consistently good.

It's baseball, most players are inconsistent. That's usually how it works with samples so large.

Cueto for Lamb, Finnegan and Reed?

That is an impressive haul for a pitcher who may be a rental and may have serious elbow issues. Glad the Royals are going all out though.

would move Pedroia. They just signed him to a long contract yet Moncada is the future.

though

Pedroia's hamstring has time to heal

Even if it might be the prudent thing to do.

Just shows he in denial they are being buyers.
They've sucked the past 5 years, been in last place 3 of 4 seasons and they think its a fluke?
The fluke was 2013.

In comment 12386857 hudson said:

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Just shows he in denial they are being buyers. They've sucked the past 5 years, been in last place 3 of 4 seasons and they think its a fluke? The fluke was 2013.

? - i guess you're just kidding Re: that record

But he's right about that - 2013 was a massive, massive fluke. The Sawx are a dogshit team going nowhere for the time being.

is near for Big Poppy in Boston.

It wouldn't be to compete better this season; it would be to get another piece for next.

For nothing. sox trying to clear space for Rusney

In comment 12388095 Bill L said:

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For nothing. sox trying to clear space for Rusney

About time, ship out Napoli next. They were great in 2013 but it's time to move on and get the kids reps, or in the case of 1B, get Hanley to a position he's less likely to butcher full time.

In comment 12388095 Bill L said:

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For nothing. sox trying to clear space for Rusney

JBJ deserves another shot.