Andrew Gross @AGrossRecord 14m14 minutes ago
Derek Stepan's arbitration hearing set for 9am in Toronto. Same time as my annual physical. I know I'm making my appointment.
Will Step?
Andrew Gross @AGrossRecord 14m14 minutes ago
Derek Stepan's arbitration hearing set for 9am in Toronto. Same time as my annual physical. I know I'm making my appointment.
Will Step?
under 7 mil per year. I like Step but we all know he's not a # 1 center and he's what I would call a nice # 2 or 2B. Sure, his camp has some leverage but I'd really hate to see this thing get out of hand..
but you have to get it done cause he is only 24. I'd like a 5 year deal around $35m. Starting a little lower then 7 and working its way up. Sound fair?
He's not a top ten center. But he's absolutely a #1 center.
Brass is closer to a #1 center in my opinion. Sure, Step sees the ice well and distributes the puck well but his lack of effectiveness in the faceoff circle, his disappearing acts and his inability to push the pace tells me he should not be paid as a #1. I'm also judging him by the last time we saw him in the Tampa series, he was invisible.
under 7 mil per year. I like Step but we all know he's not a # 1 center and he's what I would call a nice # 2 or 2B. Sure, his camp has some leverage but I'd really hate to see this thing get out of hand..
Given increased cap (go by %, not absolute) 7 mil ain't what it used to be.
Brassard probably falls a bit short and needs another year of quality play as well.
You can't name 30 centers better than Stepan. His PPG average at his age is equivalent to Bergeron's was. Bergeron's better at everything, but Stepan is underrated around here. I don't like his possession numbers, but he was weighed down for some time by MSL (during the regular season).
Quote:
PPG from ages 21-24:
Patrice Bergeron: .75
Derek Stepan: .74
David Kreijci: .74
Ryan O'Reilly: .73
Jordan Staal: .68
Joe Pavelski: .61
I understand he wants to get paid. If he is going to sign a long term deal now he wants some 'inflation' built into the AAV of the deal. The problem is Sather left Gorton with very little wiggle room and a team to run. If they can get it done for $6.75M on a five/six year deal that would be fair for both sides imo.
That's an arbitration negotiating tactic. Frankly as Step is an RFA that number is close to the established comps. No one knows what the long term behind closed doors contract talks are. Obviously they haven't agreed on a deal but you can bet the rangers are offering significantly more than $5.2M on a multi year contract.
under 7 mil per year. I like Step but we all know he's not a # 1 center and he's what I would call a nice # 2 or 2B. Sure, his camp has some leverage but I'd really hate to see this thing get out of hand..
Given increased cap (go by %, not absolute) 7 mil ain't what it used to be.
Most analyses disagree with you.
See also: BSB2 - ( New Window )
Agreed Jay. I just don't want to see them overpay simply because of their dearth at the position. I just think it's unacceptable to pay him Toews like money or for that matter the kind of money a true #1 center, that can carry a team, demands. I just see him slotted at #2.
it kills to lose a DuClair. If they had he and Buchevich (non-centers) maybe you don't have to pay top dollar for a center b/c the wingers are so good. Maybe a just a nice passer is all that would be needed.
That's why the arbitration number is low at $5.2M and why Stepan might go to arbitration. If he feels the team isn't offering enough to 'buy out' his free agent status next year he will opt for the one year deal then test the market. Again this is why the $5.2M isn't a number that matters as it certainly isn't what the team is offering behind closed doors on a multi year contract. Obviously Steps camp isn't satisfied with whatever Gorton has on the table in that regard or a deal would have been closed.
There haven't been any leaks on the Stepan long term negotiations. All we have are the arbitration proposals from both sides. Low on the team side and high on the player as expected.
Gorton made comments indicating he's unhappy with some of the NMC's that have been doled out.
He should be. Boyle in particular. We're locking into Staal, Girardi, and Boyle. None on brutal deals, but it would be swell if we could have moved one this offseason.
say three years? That offers him some personal stability but gives the team room to maneuver in the not too distant future. I agree with Gorton that in general NMC should be reserved for impact players who have leverage. In Steps case at his age it wouldn't bother me to dole one out.
RE: Toews got a deal that pays carries a $10.5M AAV.
Toews is a poor example but I cannot accept a contract that will see him making more than Seguin or for instance in the area of a Bergeron, Krejci, Kopitar or a Statsny. Current market conditions aside, any more that 6 - 6.5 mil per would not be commensurate with his level of play.
I also wonder whether arbitration has become less brutal
10-15 years ago it was a bunch of drunk, mustachioed Canadians in a room yelling at eachother. Total seat of your pants argument about whether guys were complete players, carried by linemates, sheltered minutes etc. Now with all the advanced stats at least both sides have a dry way of pressing their comps. Yesterday's "you're not as good as X" is replaced by "well you havent driven possession as well as X, who also has more defensive zone starts..."
from what I've read Torrag's correct, $6.5M looks like a spot where he's paid handsomely but not receiving the benefit of bloated value from ROR's deal, eg.
Toews is a poor example but I cannot accept a contract that will see him making more than Seguin or for instance in the area of a Bergeron, Krejci, Kopitar or a Statsny. Current market conditions aside, any more that 6 - 6.5 mil per would not be commensurate with his level of play.
You cant accept Stepan making more than Paul fucking Stastny? Why? Stepan outscored Stasney over 1, 3, and 5 year periods despite being a lot younger.
As for Kopitar, you're focusing on a contract signed before the 2009 season. He will get extended for $10+ million this summer.
The New York Rangers have agreed to terms with RFA center Derek Stepan on a multi-year contract. Per Larry Brooks, it is a six year deal worth $6.5 million per year.
Toews is a poor example but I cannot accept a contract that will see him making more than Seguin or for instance in the area of a Bergeron, Krejci, Kopitar or a Statsny. Current market conditions aside, any more that 6 - 6.5 mil per would not be commensurate with his level of play.
Stepan's had a higher PPG average than Krejci and Stastny two of the past three years. Seguin isn't comparable because he was younger when he signed his deal. Tavares make $5.5M - both are irrelevant.
We get much more of Stepan's prime years than the Bruins would get with Bergeron (and Bergeron's PPG average 21-24 is equivalent to Stepan's).
Larry Brooks should hang them up. The fearmongering over the impending Stepocalypse all summer was for naught. Indeed, being up against the cap I think has helped us in the Zucc and Step negotiations tremendously.
Would like to see no NMC.
RE: Ha this is the Rangers tweet immediately following the deal tweet
Pierre McGuire @MobilePierre 2m2 minutes ago
@NYRangers DEREK STEPAN FROM HASTINGS MINNESOTA! GRADUATE OF WORLD RENOWN SHATTUCK ST MARYS! POCKETED 111 POINTS HIS SENIOR YEAR! #NYR
earlier this month of what Stepan was worth on a long term deal. Conclusion:
Quote:
Judging, then, by the fact that Stepan is solidly in the middle of these comparables [ed. Krejci, Koivu, O'Reilly, J. Staal, Stastny], let's say he's worth about 10.25 percent of the cap. That puts him around $7.32 million, and that seems like a reasonable number for him to get. Anything less and he's probably selling himself short.
So we got a good deal. And if the cap ever pops, Stepan and Brassard for $11.5 million is a very economical 1-2 or an insanely productive 2-3. Link - ( New Window )
Toews is a poor example but I cannot accept a contract that will see him making more than Seguin or for instance in the area of a Bergeron, Krejci, Kopitar or a Statsny. Current market conditions aside, any more that 6 - 6.5 mil per would not be commensurate with his level of play.
You cant accept Stepan making more than Paul fucking Stastny? Why? Stepan outscored Stasney over 1, 3, and 5 year periods despite being a lot younger.
As for Kopitar, you're focusing on a contract signed before the 2009 season. He will get extended for $10+ million this summer.
Yahoo: Anze Kopitar And The Elite Center Mega-Contract - ( New Window )
Statsny had a bit of a down year w STL but his numbers the previous season were very good and he played less than half a season due to injury 2 seasons ago. His faceoff numbers are far superior to Steps which is one of my gripes w #21. Don't get me wrong, I like him but I also see the pimples and again the last time he was on the ice he was very difficult to pick up with the naked eye.
Pierre McGuire @MobilePierre 2m2 minutes ago
@NYRangers DEREK STEPAN FROM HASTINGS MINNESOTA! GRADUATE OF WORLD RENOWN SHATTUCK ST MARYS! POCKETED 111 POINTS HIS SENIOR YEAR! #NYR
MORE IMPORTANT -- Derek Stepan, Badger!!!
Now that he's signed what do we want to see from Step?
Personally I want more offensive consistency. He goes on streaks where he'll rack up 10 points in a week then Zzzzzzz for a week. The next step in his development is becoming a more reliable presence on the score sheet.
I was confused as to why so many Rangers fans (mostly elsewhere, but some here) wanted him last year. I don't think he's better than Stepan, but worst case they're close.
Skjei we have flexibility to leave in Hartford all year right?
They've tested the Klein market and given his contract they haven't gotten a deal that makes sense. Some argue he's exposed as a top 4 D and overpaid as a 3rd pair guy. I don't buy that. Before the injury last season he was our 2nd best Dman after Mac and it wasn't really close. He struggled on his return but frankly our vaunted 'D' had a subpar playoffs as a whole imo.
Toews is a poor example but I cannot accept a contract that will see him making more than Seguin or for instance in the area of a Bergeron, Krejci, Kopitar or a Statsny. Current market conditions aside, any more that 6 - 6.5 mil per would not be commensurate with his level of play.
You cant accept Stepan making more than Paul fucking Stastny? Why? Stepan outscored Stasney over 1, 3, and 5 year periods despite being a lot younger.
As for Kopitar, you're focusing on a contract signed before the 2009 season. He will get extended for $10+ million this summer.
Yahoo: Anze Kopitar And The Elite Center Mega-Contract - ( New Window )
Statsny had a bit of a down year w STL but his numbers the previous season were very good and he played less than half a season due to injury 2 seasons ago. His faceoff numbers are far superior to Steps which is one of my gripes w #21. Don't get me wrong, I like him but I also see the pimples and again the last time he was on the ice he was very difficult to pick up with the naked eye.
Just happy to see it wasn't more than 6.5 per.
In that "very good" season he outscored Stepan by all of 3 points. The year before that he did not miss half the season with injury. You're forgetting about the lockout -- he played 40 games to Stepan's 48. If we want to cut guys a break for injury, then Stepan's points for this season re-adjust to a 66 point pace. Stepan also tends to get a tough matchup for us, whereas Stastny has Backes to handle big minute, tough opposition.
You position that you could not accept Stepan making $$ in the area of Stastny continues to make no sense.
RE: The three D they prefer to move have NMC in place
They've tested the Klein market and given his contract they haven't gotten a deal that makes sense. Some argue he's exposed as a top 4 D and overpaid as a 3rd pair guy. I don't buy that. Before the injury last season he was our 2nd best Dman after Mac and it wasn't really close. He struggled on his return but frankly our vaunted 'D' had a subpar playoffs as a whole imo.
I've gone back and forth on this, but I'm fine keeping Klein. It seemed like someone had to be moved, and he was the logical piece given his lack of no-move. I'm fine keeping eight D and dumping Glass. I'm in the camp he's overplayed on the second pair, but he's still a good player.
The Rangers plan on keeping Yandle next year, I think you'll see them move Staal or Klein plus. The thing that's a killer is we still have 2 more years of Boyle.
RE: RE: wouldn't mind moving Staal's contract out of here
Toews is a poor example but I cannot accept a contract that will see him making more than Seguin or for instance in the area of a Bergeron, Krejci, Kopitar or a Statsny. Current market conditions aside, any more that 6 - 6.5 mil per would not be commensurate with his level of play.
You cant accept Stepan making more than Paul fucking Stastny? Why? Stepan outscored Stasney over 1, 3, and 5 year periods despite being a lot younger.
As for Kopitar, you're focusing on a contract signed before the 2009 season. He will get extended for $10+ million this summer.
Yahoo: Anze Kopitar And The Elite Center Mega-Contract - ( New Window )
Statsny had a bit of a down year w STL but his numbers the previous season were very good and he played less than half a season due to injury 2 seasons ago. His faceoff numbers are far superior to Steps which is one of my gripes w #21. Don't get me wrong, I like him but I also see the pimples and again the last time he was on the ice he was very difficult to pick up with the naked eye.
Just happy to see it wasn't more than 6.5 per.
In that "very good" season he outscored Stepan by all of 3 points. The year before that he did not miss half the season with injury. You're forgetting about the lockout -- he played 40 games to Stepan's 48. If we want to cut guys a break for injury, then Stepan's points for this season re-adjust to a 66 point pace. Stepan also tends to get a tough matchup for us, whereas Stastny has Backes to handle big minute, tough opposition.
You position that you could not accept Stepan making $$ in the area of Stastny continues to make no sense.
In other words, you choose not to see any flaw in Steps game and to my main point and argument here, he's not a bonafide #1 and therefore shouldn't be paid as such meaning anywhere north of 7mil per year.
The Rangers plan on keeping Yandle next year, I think you'll see them move Staal or Klein plus. The thing that's a killer is we still have 2 more years of Boyle.
The Rangers plan on keeping Yandle next year, I think you'll see them move Staal or Klein plus. The thing that's a killer is we still have 2 more years of Boyle.
The Rangers plan on keeping Yandle next year, I think you'll see them move Staal or Klein plus. The thing that's a killer is we still have 2 more years of Boyle.
Boyle is off the books after this year I thought
You're right.
2012 - Thanks. I like Staal. Thought he had a really good first two rounds before being a dumpster fire (along with everyone other than Yandle and Boyle) against Tampa. I'm a huge critic of Girardi's and think he's going to continue to get worse. I think he holds McDonagh back quite a bit.
Getting Girardi or Staal to agree to a deal would be a coup for Gorton
Trading one of them out of town remains the clear best solution. Preferably Girardi but Staal probably carries more value on the market. Then Boyle expires, you re-sign Yandle and carry a cap savings forward to next years RFA crop.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Toews got a deal that pays carries a $10.5M AAV.
In other words, you choose not to see any flaw in Steps game and to my main point and argument here, he's not a bonafide #1 and therefore shouldn't be paid as such meaning anywhere north of 7mil per year.
So now you're just going to flail rather than say that Stepan is comparable to Stastny and possibly better. Gotcha.
If I acknowledged no flaws in Step's game then I'd be advocating for a $10 million contract.
RE: faceoffs are, on the whole, fairly unimportant
If puck possession is such a significant measuring stick than why can't faceoff's be considered a important component? Perhaps those who were screaming bloody murder during game threads when we were being pushed around in the circle were just over reacting? At any rate, I don't believe faceoffs should be discounted.
If puck possession is such a significant measuring stick than why can't faceoff's be considered a important component? Perhaps those who were screaming bloody murder during game threads when we were being pushed around in the circle were just over reacting? At any rate, I don't believe faceoffs should be discounted.
Of course face offs are very important. The Rangers supposedly run more plays off the face off than any team in the league. Face offs = puck possession.
I like Staal. Thought he had a really good first two rounds before being a dumpster fire (along with everyone other than Yandle and Boyle) against Tampa. I'm a huge critic of Girardi's and think he's going to continue to get worse. I think he holds McDonagh back quite a bit.
Moving Klein is really key. Move him now. Aside from the fact that I just dont like his game, it's the Stralman situation all over again -- we should have resigned AS and traded DG. Now we should resign Yandle and trade Klein, hopefully for a near ready RH defensive prospect.
It's really nothing like the AS/DG situation. No one is advocating re-signing Klein to a new contract with a major raise. The thing to do is explore the options to move Girardi/Staal. Now that Stepan is done I'd say that route provides Gorton the best opportunity to get this teams cap under control.
Moving Klein is really key. Move him now. Aside from the fact that I just dont like his game, it's the Stralman situation all over again -- we should have resigned AS and traded DG. Now we should resign Yandle and trade Klein, hopefully for a near ready RH defensive prospect.
How is it like the Stralman situation? I don't think that a guy making 3 million per is comparable to Girardi getting paid a shit ton. Klein has a very reasonable cap hit. Girardi doesn't. Keeping Klein doesn't mean we can't keep Yandle.
Staal and DG can block their own trades for 3 and 2 more seasons, respectively. It is therefore very likely follow to try and shop them unless they've pre-authorized Gordon to make moves.
The comparison to the Stralman situation is this - it looks like it may be another replay of us holding onto the bird in hand and letting the UFA walk, rather than extending the guy we'll lose for nothing and monetizing the movable asset.
In other words, you choose not to see any flaw in Steps game and to my main point and argument here, he's not a bonafide #1 and therefore shouldn't be paid as such meaning anywhere north of 7mil per year.
So now you're just going to flail rather than say that Stepan is comparable to Stastny and possibly better. Gotcha.
If I acknowledged no flaws in Step's game then I'd be advocating for a $10 million contract.
I'm not saying he's markedly better rather I was pointing to either similar players or players being paid commensurate with the #1 center position which I believe Step is not. I maintain my position that he's not a #1 therefore he's not worthy of 7 mil - 7 plus per year and I'm happy to see that was the outcome.
By the way, what's wrong with flailing with the gloves on anyway?
Trade Klein and we free up $3 million, which is about what Yandle will get over his NYR cap # for this season.
IMO we need to shed several biggish salaries before 2016. I think Boyle and Klein make a lot of sense. Neither will be a huge loss. I dont trust Klein to play on the 2nd line anyway should the need arise.
I dont trust Klein to play on the 2nd line anyway should the need arise.
I do, but that's a debate that's been argued ad nauseum. The key is trading Girardi and Glass and then all of a sudden, depending on how you see Klein, his contract becomes a bargain for a second pair. I will say this though: I think his offensive stats last year were an anomaly. I doubt he replicates them.
There was no 'bird in hand' in the AS/DG situation. Both players were free agents. We just signed the wrong one. And if the DG/MS contracts aren't moveable all options are open. The team need financial flexibility. It's hard for a GM to function effectively when you're so tight against the cap.
I think we'll find a way to sign Yandle. We gave up a lot for him and with Boyle gone after this season he fills a role we need.
are fantasy to me. Not worth discussing. Girardi has a NMC and his contract isnt a bargain -- where do you see him going? And trading Glass cant be a key, since at most he'd save us like 800k.
But I think Nash and Boyle will go (maybe Klein), to keep Yandle, Krieder and Hayes and still have flexibility.
At some point if they're not winning the Cup, Nash figures to be moved to create space to pay the ascending core, and perhaps to go after a younger star who's a better post-season performer, eg.
There was no 'bird in hand' in the AS/DG situation. Both players were free agents.
DG was not a free agent when he was resigned. He resigned midseason, and there were rumors that the Ducks were putting together a nice package for him centered around Sami Vatanen.
There was no 'bird in hand' in the AS/DG situation. Both players were free agents.
DG was not a free agent when he was resigned. He resigned midseason, and there were rumors that the Ducks were putting together a nice package for him centered around Sami Vatanen.
Yeah, that one really hurts in hindsight
I think trading Nash is definitely something to consider next
Off-season, barring an elevation in playoff performance. I think it gives the team the best option to maintain their window unless he becomes the lead guy.
There was no 'bird in hand' in the AS/DG situation. Both players were free agents.
DG was not a free agent when he was resigned. He resigned midseason, and there were rumors that the Ducks were putting together a nice package for him centered around Sami Vatanen.
Yeah, that one really hurts in hindsight
We didn't even need hindsight. Many said it at the time.
There was no 'bird in hand' in the AS/DG situation. Both players were free agents.
DG was not a free agent when he was resigned. He resigned midseason, and there were rumors that the Ducks were putting together a nice package for him centered around Sami Vatanen.
Yeah, that one really hurts in hindsight
We didn't even need hindsight. Many said it at the time.
Agreed, Jon. I recall us speaking about it at the time of elimination. I suspect the Rangers have an ear open, but aren't looking to move him. That probably changes next off-season.
I think a JVR or Schwartz would make sense (type of production, not necessarily these specific players - STL doesn't have the space). A 25-30 goal scorer, plus pieces.
The return this off-season for first-line talent was quite low, and might be next season as well if Stamkos/Kopitar hit the market.
there just isn't much of a correlation between faceoff wins
and winning games. Statistically, you get one more win per 245 faceoff wins. You win more games with Derek Stepan than you would with a lesser player who is superior on faceoffs.
Sure, it's better to win faceoffs than to lose them, but the negative impact of losing them is fairly minor. Link - ( New Window )
Stepan is not eligible for a no-trade in the first two-years of the deal but is believed to have gotten a no-trade in years 3 and 4 of the deal and a limited no-trade in years 5 and 6. (NY Post)
Stepan is not eligible for a no-trade in the first two-years of the deal but is believed to have gotten a no-trade in years 3 and 4 of the deal and a limited no-trade in years 5 and 6. (NY Post)
You get a NTC. And you get a NTC. And you get a NTC.
Yikes. Even worse. I guess Gorton learned from Sather.
It's much worse when it's given to a player like Girardi who is already starting to hit a downswing at the time of the deal. Barring injury, we should get great value out of Stepan's deal.
The cause if obvious. When you ask a guy to recognize the cap crunch and take a home town discount in a high tax state, his first demand should be a NMC. If you say no, then you're not really committed to him, are you? Especially when Staal, DG, and Zucc got them.
I went in saying I was fine with Stepan getting a NMC if he took a below-market deal. I think he would have gotten $7.5-8 on the open-market, but $6.5M-$7M seemed reasonable given the relative RFA leverage - so I'm a little disappointed he got the NMC.
I thought Zucc could've got $5.5-6M on the open market, so the NMC made sense.
At his age a NMC isn't a big deal for Step. He'll be thirty when this contract ends.
As far as DG being a mid-season signing it was either trade him or sign him. He was in the last year of the deal. Same thing for Straalman. With Staal coming due the following year it was going to be one or the other not both.
How all the home grown talent gets moved on this team. Even with the guys like Stepan or the other clown, you guys talk about the deal and possibly moving him when you figure its the end of the line. Weird relationship between the fans, brass and the players. Granted its business and a sign of the times but this was a stanley cup contender which is now a shell of that team.
How all the home grown talent gets moved on this team. Even with the guys like Stepan or the other clown, you guys talk about the deal and possibly moving him when you figure its the end of the line. Weird relationship between the fans, brass and the players. Granted its business and a sign of the times but this was a stanley cup contender which is now a shell of that team.
Hyperbole much?
11 of the 23 players listed on the Rangers site played their
How all the home grown talent gets moved on this team. Even with the guys like Stepan or the other clown, you guys talk about the deal and possibly moving him when you figure its the end of the line. Weird relationship between the fans, brass and the players. Granted its business and a sign of the times but this was a stanley cup contender which is now a shell of that team.
Hope you just collected rather than drink that Nassau Colosseum water. Drinking it might explain the drain bamage.
Hagelin had to go because of cap reasons, as did Callahan (thank God).
They wouldn't have been able to fit those guys in a cap world.
Letting Stralman go was the only one that was really a mistake. Would the Rangers be better today with Dubi and Anisimov over Nash (and they wouldn't have been able to fit both anyway)?
Home-grown teams still have to churn guys. Fast replaces Hagelin, Skjei will replace Girardi when Lundqvist murders him after costing us another series this year...
Tyutin? Really? Stralman wasn't homegrown and he was a FA. I miss Dubs and I'll miss Hags but deals are made and a lot of the Rangers core is here and it's young. I'll count Hayes in that as well though he was drafted elsewhere he cut his teeth in NY>. More in the pipeline as well with Skjei and Buch here by 2017 at the latest imo.
a dick. I am stating what I think is the wrong moves for teams. Getting Nash or MSL has not paid off. If you had the home grown guys, a) you would appreciate them more, b) and winning would be better with seeing the guys grow up and win.....
since he's been here. He gets crap about the playoffs but I'd rather have the last 3 years of Nash instead of the slogfest of Dubi, AA, Erixon and god knows whoever else was in that deal.
He's been a major contributor to one of the most successful runs in team history. Do we want more from him in the playoffs? Absolutely. The ultimate triumph hasn't been achieved...yet. The book isn't closed so let's not act like the final chapter in the Rick Nash saga has been written.
Fish even more useless than usual. Go start a Brooklynders thread and talk to yourself.
Hags, Del Zotto, Dubinsly, Tytuin, Stralman. Who's next? Better off keeping these guys together, the core.
Players change hands non-stop. When did you start believing teams held onto all their players? Look at the trade deadline and offseason. The NHL offseason is as crazy as the NFL offseason with all moves.
Derek Stepan's arbitration hearing set for 9am in Toronto. Same time as my annual physical. I know I'm making my appointment.
Will Step?
Derek Stepan's arbitration hearing set for 9am in Toronto. Same time as my annual physical. I know I'm making my appointment.
Will Step?
LOL
"Derek -- cough."
Also, Dan Girardi sucks.
me too
To make 3 conference finals in 4 years, off two #1 seeds. It's not like we've been a capped out, not pick lottery team like the Knicks.
In any event, Stepan is one of the few guys we absolutely have to get done.
BSB - ( New Window )
Brass is closer to a #1 center in my opinion. Sure, Step sees the ice well and distributes the puck well but his lack of effectiveness in the faceoff circle, his disappearing acts and his inability to push the pace tells me he should not be paid as a #1. I'm also judging him by the last time we saw him in the Tampa series, he was invisible.
Given increased cap (go by %, not absolute) 7 mil ain't what it used to be.
Most analyses disagree with you.
See also:
BSB2 - ( New Window )
You can't name 30 centers better than Stepan. His PPG average at his age is equivalent to Bergeron's was. Bergeron's better at everything, but Stepan is underrated around here. I don't like his possession numbers, but he was weighed down for some time by MSL (during the regular season).
Patrice Bergeron: .75
Derek Stepan: .74
David Kreijci: .74
Ryan O'Reilly: .73
Jordan Staal: .68
Joe Pavelski: .61
+1
Quote:
under 7 mil per year. I like Step but we all know he's not a # 1 center and he's what I would call a nice # 2 or 2B. Sure, his camp has some leverage but I'd really hate to see this thing get out of hand..
Given increased cap (go by %, not absolute) 7 mil ain't what it used to be.
Most analyses disagree with you.
See also: BSB2 - ( New Window )
Agreed Jay. I just don't want to see them overpay simply because of their dearth at the position. I just think it's unacceptable to pay him Toews like money or for that matter the kind of money a true #1 center, that can carry a team, demands. I just see him slotted at #2.
Stepan, Rangers meeting this morning in attempt to reach agreement and avoid arbitration hearing...
He should be. Boyle in particular. We're locking into Staal, Girardi, and Boyle. None on brutal deals, but it would be swell if we could have moved one this offseason.
Toews is a poor example but I cannot accept a contract that will see him making more than Seguin or for instance in the area of a Bergeron, Krejci, Kopitar or a Statsny. Current market conditions aside, any more that 6 - 6.5 mil per would not be commensurate with his level of play.
Quote:
Stepan probably won't get 70% of that.
Toews is a poor example but I cannot accept a contract that will see him making more than Seguin or for instance in the area of a Bergeron, Krejci, Kopitar or a Statsny. Current market conditions aside, any more that 6 - 6.5 mil per would not be commensurate with his level of play.
You cant accept Stepan making more than Paul fucking Stastny? Why? Stepan outscored Stasney over 1, 3, and 5 year periods despite being a lot younger.
As for Kopitar, you're focusing on a contract signed before the 2009 season. He will get extended for $10+ million this summer.
Yahoo: Anze Kopitar And The Elite Center Mega-Contract - ( New Window )
Noice
Wanna bet that wasn't part of their arbitration filing? LOL.
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@NYRangers OFFICIAL: #NYR have agreed to terms with restricted free agent forward Derek Stepan on a multi-year contract.
Noice
+1 phew!
Nice Gorton, if true!
Rangers, Stepan agree 6 years $6.5M per....
104 retweets 43 favorites
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Stepan probably won't get 70% of that.
Toews is a poor example but I cannot accept a contract that will see him making more than Seguin or for instance in the area of a Bergeron, Krejci, Kopitar or a Statsny. Current market conditions aside, any more that 6 - 6.5 mil per would not be commensurate with his level of play.
Stepan's had a higher PPG average than Krejci and Stastny two of the past three years. Seguin isn't comparable because he was younger when he signed his deal. Tavares make $5.5M - both are irrelevant.
We get much more of Stepan's prime years than the Bruins would get with Bergeron (and Bergeron's PPG average 21-24 is equivalent to Stepan's).
Would like to see no NMC.
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Stepan became the 1st #NYR center to record 50 or more points in 3 consecutive seasons (82 games) since Wayne Gretzky
Wanna bet that wasn't part of their arbitration filing? LOL.
Ha!
I hope this added cap flexibility doesn't keep glass around though !!
@NYRangers DEREK STEPAN FROM HASTINGS MINNESOTA! GRADUATE OF WORLD RENOWN SHATTUCK ST MARYS! POCKETED 111 POINTS HIS SENIOR YEAR! #NYR
+1
Fair deal for both sides. Makes Step a very wealthy young man in the Supermodel capital of the world. Well maybe that's LA but you get the drift.
So we got a good deal. And if the cap ever pops, Stepan and Brassard for $11.5 million is a very economical 1-2 or an insanely productive 2-3.
Link - ( New Window )
Crosby went to St. Mary's too!
It appears Skjei and McIl will have to win spots out of camp to force a D-man trade.
TANNER GLASS WORKING WITH A SKILLS COACH - ( New Window )
But I,m thrilled at 6.5. Terrific job by Gorton
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In comment 12386952 BrettNYG10 said:
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Stepan probably won't get 70% of that.
Toews is a poor example but I cannot accept a contract that will see him making more than Seguin or for instance in the area of a Bergeron, Krejci, Kopitar or a Statsny. Current market conditions aside, any more that 6 - 6.5 mil per would not be commensurate with his level of play.
You cant accept Stepan making more than Paul fucking Stastny? Why? Stepan outscored Stasney over 1, 3, and 5 year periods despite being a lot younger.
As for Kopitar, you're focusing on a contract signed before the 2009 season. He will get extended for $10+ million this summer.
Yahoo: Anze Kopitar And The Elite Center Mega-Contract - ( New Window )
Statsny had a bit of a down year w STL but his numbers the previous season were very good and he played less than half a season due to injury 2 seasons ago. His faceoff numbers are far superior to Steps which is one of my gripes w #21. Don't get me wrong, I like him but I also see the pimples and again the last time he was on the ice he was very difficult to pick up with the naked eye.
Just happy to see it wasn't more than 6.5 per.
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Pierre McGuire @MobilePierre 2m2 minutes ago
@NYRangers DEREK STEPAN FROM HASTINGS MINNESOTA! GRADUATE OF WORLD RENOWN SHATTUCK ST MARYS! POCKETED 111 POINTS HIS SENIOR YEAR! #NYR
MORE IMPORTANT -- Derek Stepan, Badger!!!
Go get boyes now on a one year deal
Go get boyes now on a one year deal
Yes, Skjei can be down in Hartford all year.
Would you rather move Girardi or Staal?
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In comment 12386987 Stufftherun said:
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In comment 12386952 BrettNYG10 said:
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Stepan probably won't get 70% of that.
Toews is a poor example but I cannot accept a contract that will see him making more than Seguin or for instance in the area of a Bergeron, Krejci, Kopitar or a Statsny. Current market conditions aside, any more that 6 - 6.5 mil per would not be commensurate with his level of play.
You cant accept Stepan making more than Paul fucking Stastny? Why? Stepan outscored Stasney over 1, 3, and 5 year periods despite being a lot younger.
As for Kopitar, you're focusing on a contract signed before the 2009 season. He will get extended for $10+ million this summer.
Yahoo: Anze Kopitar And The Elite Center Mega-Contract - ( New Window )
Statsny had a bit of a down year w STL but his numbers the previous season were very good and he played less than half a season due to injury 2 seasons ago. His faceoff numbers are far superior to Steps which is one of my gripes w #21. Don't get me wrong, I like him but I also see the pimples and again the last time he was on the ice he was very difficult to pick up with the naked eye.
Just happy to see it wasn't more than 6.5 per.
In that "very good" season he outscored Stepan by all of 3 points. The year before that he did not miss half the season with injury. You're forgetting about the lockout -- he played 40 games to Stepan's 48. If we want to cut guys a break for injury, then Stepan's points for this season re-adjust to a 66 point pace. Stepan also tends to get a tough matchup for us, whereas Stastny has Backes to handle big minute, tough opposition.
You position that you could not accept Stepan making $$ in the area of Stastny continues to make no sense.
I've gone back and forth on this, but I'm fine keeping Klein. It seemed like someone had to be moved, and he was the logical piece given his lack of no-move. I'm fine keeping eight D and dumping Glass. I'm in the camp he's overplayed on the second pair, but he's still a good player.
I'm also surprised and disappointed staal never developed an offensive game. Doesn't seem like a good fit in av's system
We will need to figure a way to move one of these guys to retain yandle. Boyle coming off books isn't enough
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the inexpensive return could be nice.
Would you rather move Girardi or Staal?
I'd move Girardi yet think the return on Staal would be better. Given the depth of defensemen I'd move Staal. I've never been a huge fan of his.
I think you're right - but would also leave us a gaping hole on D where basically we didn't have any offensive weapons back there
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In comment 12387015 Deej said:
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In comment 12386987 Stufftherun said:
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In comment 12386952 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Stepan probably won't get 70% of that.
Toews is a poor example but I cannot accept a contract that will see him making more than Seguin or for instance in the area of a Bergeron, Krejci, Kopitar or a Statsny. Current market conditions aside, any more that 6 - 6.5 mil per would not be commensurate with his level of play.
You cant accept Stepan making more than Paul fucking Stastny? Why? Stepan outscored Stasney over 1, 3, and 5 year periods despite being a lot younger.
As for Kopitar, you're focusing on a contract signed before the 2009 season. He will get extended for $10+ million this summer.
Yahoo: Anze Kopitar And The Elite Center Mega-Contract - ( New Window )
Statsny had a bit of a down year w STL but his numbers the previous season were very good and he played less than half a season due to injury 2 seasons ago. His faceoff numbers are far superior to Steps which is one of my gripes w #21. Don't get me wrong, I like him but I also see the pimples and again the last time he was on the ice he was very difficult to pick up with the naked eye.
Just happy to see it wasn't more than 6.5 per.
In that "very good" season he outscored Stepan by all of 3 points. The year before that he did not miss half the season with injury. You're forgetting about the lockout -- he played 40 games to Stepan's 48. If we want to cut guys a break for injury, then Stepan's points for this season re-adjust to a 66 point pace. Stepan also tends to get a tough matchup for us, whereas Stastny has Backes to handle big minute, tough opposition.
You position that you could not accept Stepan making $$ in the area of Stastny continues to make no sense.
In other words, you choose not to see any flaw in Steps game and to my main point and argument here, he's not a bonafide #1 and therefore shouldn't be paid as such meaning anywhere north of 7mil per year.
Boyle is off the books after this year I thought
Just one more year
This is the last of Boyle's two year deal.
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The Rangers plan on keeping Yandle next year, I think you'll see them move Staal or Klein plus. The thing that's a killer is we still have 2 more years of Boyle.
Boyle is off the books after this year I thought
You're right.
2012 - Thanks. I like Staal. Thought he had a really good first two rounds before being a dumpster fire (along with everyone other than Yandle and Boyle) against Tampa. I'm a huge critic of Girardi's and think he's going to continue to get worse. I think he holds McDonagh back quite a bit.
In other words, you choose not to see any flaw in Steps game and to my main point and argument here, he's not a bonafide #1 and therefore shouldn't be paid as such meaning anywhere north of 7mil per year.
So now you're just going to flail rather than say that Stepan is comparable to Stastny and possibly better. Gotcha.
If I acknowledged no flaws in Step's game then I'd be advocating for a $10 million contract.
If puck possession is such a significant measuring stick than why can't faceoff's be considered a important component? Perhaps those who were screaming bloody murder during game threads when we were being pushed around in the circle were just over reacting? At any rate, I don't believe faceoffs should be discounted.
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They don't have much of an effect on outcomes.
If puck possession is such a significant measuring stick than why can't faceoff's be considered a important component? Perhaps those who were screaming bloody murder during game threads when we were being pushed around in the circle were just over reacting? At any rate, I don't believe faceoffs should be discounted.
Of course face offs are very important. The Rangers supposedly run more plays off the face off than any team in the league. Face offs = puck possession.
I agree with all points.
How is it like the Stralman situation? I don't think that a guy making 3 million per is comparable to Girardi getting paid a shit ton. Klein has a very reasonable cap hit. Girardi doesn't. Keeping Klein doesn't mean we can't keep Yandle.
The comparison to the Stralman situation is this - it looks like it may be another replay of us holding onto the bird in hand and letting the UFA walk, rather than extending the guy we'll lose for nothing and monetizing the movable asset.
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In other words, you choose not to see any flaw in Steps game and to my main point and argument here, he's not a bonafide #1 and therefore shouldn't be paid as such meaning anywhere north of 7mil per year.
So now you're just going to flail rather than say that Stepan is comparable to Stastny and possibly better. Gotcha.
If I acknowledged no flaws in Step's game then I'd be advocating for a $10 million contract.
I'm not saying he's markedly better rather I was pointing to either similar players or players being paid commensurate with the #1 center position which I believe Step is not. I maintain my position that he's not a #1 therefore he's not worthy of 7 mil - 7 plus per year and I'm happy to see that was the outcome.
By the way, what's wrong with flailing with the gloves on anyway?
Trade Klein and we free up $3 million, which is about what Yandle will get over his NYR cap # for this season.
IMO we need to shed several biggish salaries before 2016. I think Boyle and Klein make a lot of sense. Neither will be a huge loss. I dont trust Klein to play on the 2nd line anyway should the need arise.
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Keeping Klein doesn't mean we can't keep Yandle.
I dont trust Klein to play on the 2nd line anyway should the need arise.
I do, but that's a debate that's been argued ad nauseum. The key is trading Girardi and Glass and then all of a sudden, depending on how you see Klein, his contract becomes a bargain for a second pair. I will say this though: I think his offensive stats last year were an anomaly. I doubt he replicates them.
I think we'll find a way to sign Yandle. We gave up a lot for him and with Boyle gone after this season he fills a role we need.
At some point if they're not winning the Cup, Nash figures to be moved to create space to pay the ascending core, and perhaps to go after a younger star who's a better post-season performer, eg.
DG was not a free agent when he was resigned. He resigned midseason, and there were rumors that the Ducks were putting together a nice package for him centered around Sami Vatanen.
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There was no 'bird in hand' in the AS/DG situation. Both players were free agents.
DG was not a free agent when he was resigned. He resigned midseason, and there were rumors that the Ducks were putting together a nice package for him centered around Sami Vatanen.
Yeah, that one really hurts in hindsight
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In comment 12387224 Torrag said:
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There was no 'bird in hand' in the AS/DG situation. Both players were free agents.
DG was not a free agent when he was resigned. He resigned midseason, and there were rumors that the Ducks were putting together a nice package for him centered around Sami Vatanen.
Yeah, that one really hurts in hindsight
We didn't even need hindsight. Many said it at the time.
go ahead and point. I won't be offended. :-)
But seriously, your point is spot on
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In comment 12387239 Deej said:
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In comment 12387224 Torrag said:
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There was no 'bird in hand' in the AS/DG situation. Both players were free agents.
DG was not a free agent when he was resigned. He resigned midseason, and there were rumors that the Ducks were putting together a nice package for him centered around Sami Vatanen.
Yeah, that one really hurts in hindsight
We didn't even need hindsight. Many said it at the time.
It definitely sucks
I think a JVR or Schwartz would make sense (type of production, not necessarily these specific players - STL doesn't have the space). A 25-30 goal scorer, plus pieces.
The return this off-season for first-line talent was quite low, and might be next season as well if Stamkos/Kopitar hit the market.
Sure, it's better to win faceoffs than to lose them, but the negative impact of losing them is fairly minor.
Link - ( New Window )
You get a NTC. And you get a NTC. And you get a NTC.
Stepan indicates there is a no-trade early in contract, then a no-movement through six years.
It's much worse when it's given to a player like Girardi who is already starting to hit a downswing at the time of the deal. Barring injury, we should get great value out of Stepan's deal.
The lack of cap growth is killing us.
I thought Zucc could've got $5.5-6M on the open market, so the NMC made sense.
As far as DG being a mid-season signing it was either trade him or sign him. He was in the last year of the deal. Same thing for Straalman. With Staal coming due the following year it was going to be one or the other not both.
So they'll trade them when they realize our window is shut in February.
-MAB
Hyperbole much?
They aren't a shell of last year's team. MSL was dead and Hagelin had to go for cap reasons.
Hope you just collected rather than drink that Nassau Colosseum water. Drinking it might explain the drain bamage.
They wouldn't have been able to fit those guys in a cap world.
Letting Stralman go was the only one that was really a mistake. Would the Rangers be better today with Dubi and Anisimov over Nash (and they wouldn't have been able to fit both anyway)?
Home-grown teams still have to churn guys. Fast replaces Hagelin, Skjei will replace Girardi when Lundqvist murders him after costing us another series this year...
Only four of the Islanders did.
The Rangers are still driven by their home-grown players.
Now bury Glass and let's go.
haha I knew you would be! I just had to share that groundbreaking opinion with you all.
Also, Fish is the worst.
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Fish even more useless than usual. Go start a Brooklynders thread and talk to yourself.
Players change hands non-stop. When did you start believing teams held onto all their players? Look at the trade deadline and offseason. The NHL offseason is as crazy as the NFL offseason with all moves.
Com'on Fishsticks