I find the Russell Wilson contract situation to be intriguing...
On one hand, I feel like you have to pay him. He's delivered everything you've asked, including a Superbowl victory in only his second year, and another appearance in his third. If I were a fan of Seattle and he walked, I think I'd revolt.
On the other hand, I don't think he has the skillset of the prototypical quarterback that gets paid market value for his services. I'm not sure he's the pure passer that all of the other guys are that get paid that money. I'd put him more into the RG3, Kaepernick (obviously with better success, but similar skillset is my point) territory. When used correctly, a very powerful offensive weapon.
But I do feel like that makes him somewhat of a limited value. For instance, a prototypical passer like Rodgers, Brady, the Mannings, Brees, Stafford, Flacco, Ryan, Romo, etc... Can go to any team and be successful. I don't know whether Russell Wilson can play in a more traditional passing offense.
He supposedly turned down a deal worth 21 million a year, which is on par with what Roethlisberger just signed. The devil is in the details, though, as the guaranteed money is supposedly sub par. However, there is supposedly significantly more guaranteed money in injury clauses. Meaning, as long as he doesn't get hurt, he gets the money. Is that their way of protecting themselves from the style of offense they're running? WHen you ask your QB to be a runner/ball carrier, you're obviously opening up the possibilty of injury to him.
Russell wants 25 million per, which would make him the NFL's highest paid player (until the next QB contract is due, obviously). Does he deserve that contract? If you were a fan of the Seahawks, would you want them to pay it?
Just curious about this one, because I do find it's an interesting case where I truly can see both sides.
And now we've come full circle back to the threadstart.
Balancing Market Value against Team Worth.
Andrew Luck is a no brainer. Wilson, well, I think you could make the argument either way. And a good one either way, at that.
Rushing: 118 att, 849 yds. 7.2 per carry. 6 TD's. 8 20+ carries.
Not for nothing, but that is a pretty insane statistical season for a QB.
(1) I'm not knocking Wilson. I'm saying that because of the way the team is built around him he probably has the easiest QB job in the NFL. T
(2) heir running game is violent and generally awesome...the play action fake is incredibly effective and often afford Wilson acres of space and time
(3) My point is that someone else can come in and do the job if the team continues to be built the way it is.
1. He does have it easier but his play also makes it easier for the whole team.
2. It's Wilson's play action and ability to read a defense quickly which makes the offense go. Get a less deceptive QB who can't read a defense as well as see what happens to Seattle.
3. Who? Where is the next Wilson? You make it sound easy and if that was the case, approx. 16 teams would be in a better QB position. They can't find QB's.
It's a great discussion.
No trade proposals but would a Nassib work in Seattle?
They can sure draft a QB and invite other QBs with that similar skill set to camp and go that route. They can then use the money to upgrade any other position.
In theory it's a good plan, but is it sustainable? I am really curious if that model can work long term, if they decide to move on from Wilson.
Seattle number of passes attempted (rank/no. of passes):
2012: 32/405
2013: 31/420
2014: 32/454
Number of rushes:
2012: 1/536
2013: 2/509
2014: 2/525
They've also been number 1 in defense in each of those three seasons. It can't be more stark: the success of the Seahawks since Wilson arrived is built upon defense and the running game.
Is he a part of that dynamic? Absolutely. He's an excellent running quarterback and smart enough to rarely get hit. He's the perfect QB for the team they've been.
But once you pay him they become a different team, and the demands placed on him will be very different. That situation will be as much an unknown as if you bring in a cheaper replacement, but it will be much more expensive.
Quote:
As far as Wilson/Seattle, my point still remains. Phase two is still a question mark. Could they strike gold again with a mid round, low salaried QB?
They can sure draft a QB and invite other QBs with that similar skill set to camp and go that route. They can then use the money to upgrade any other position.
In theory it's a good plan, but is it sustainable? I am really curious if that model can work long term, if they decide to move on from Wilson.
Yeah, that's what I've been saying.
For QB's, if they're any good (aka they don't suck), you pay big bucks for their services in the second contract. It's the way it's always been. I'm guessing it's the way it's going to be. the only way around it is to be able to draft QB's at will and let the 'old' one go. good luck with that.
Terps - great points
Personally, as far as worth goes, you are worth whatever somebody is willing to pay you. I think they'll get a deal done, but not for another year. Probably be between 14-15% of cap, with more guaranteed. Again, jmho.
Danny Kannell - I think Wilson had half his rushing yards last year against us. (At least it sure seemed that way. :-) )
That team is built to win now and win multiple of rings. By letting Wilson go, Seattle will be setting their future back multiple seasons, no matter how dominant their defense is.
They do have a good GM. Can he keep hitting home runs like that though? I don't follow them or their front office to know if the GM and Director of College Scouting can sustain good to great drafts like that.
It also could be just a right situation or perfect timing, where you created a system, with a good coach, and you're draft picks all produced and you weren't paying a shit load of money to your QB. The niners had a similar situation where Colin K. wasn't bad a lot either.
Now guys get paid and leave, so could their so called model be nothing more than just a lucky set or circumstances all lining up like that?
Quote:
...as long as you find another Wilson AND keep drafting guys like Sherman, Chancellor, Maxwell and Thurmond on Day 3.
They do have a good GM. Can he keep hitting home runs like that though? I don't follow them or their front office to know if the GM and Director of College Scouting can sustain good to great drafts like that.
It also could be just a right situation or perfect timing, where you created a system, with a good coach, and you're draft picks all produced and you weren't paying a shit load of money to your QB. The niners had a similar situation where Colin K. wasn't bad a lot either.
Now guys get paid and leave, so could their so called model be nothing more than just a lucky set or circumstances all lining up like that?
I believe it was Scott McCloughhan who is credited for building that Seattle team, now with the Redskins.
But you echo another one of my points from earlier in the thread. Is it truly a "model", or a case of the stars aligning?
The Seahawks are NOT a QB centered team. They (through a combination of luck and design) have had great success with their current style of resource allocation.
I really believe they don't need to find another Wilson.
The Seahawks are NOT a QB centered team. They (through a combination of luck and design) have had great success with their current style of resource allocation.
I really believe they don't need to find another Wilson.
If they are not a QB centered team then should they break the bank and pay Wilson?
I realize that is the unlikely scenario. The Seattle front office will also be thinking about jersey sales, face of the franchise, etc. But on the field, it's what I would do.
I realize that is the unlikely scenario. The Seattle front office will also be thinking about jersey sales, face of the franchise, etc. But on the field, it's what I would do.
Yeah, if they believe in that system then sure that would be good. If they happen to believe right place, right time, and everything worked together perfectly, then they may not want to risk that.
Also, by doing that you really put a shit load of pressure on yourself as the GM and everyone else in the front office to find a QB that run that offense.
That's what makes this interesting. If you trade for picks and go that route, and have years like we did drafting, then you're in trouble. No new players coming in, and god forbid you swing and miss on evaluating QBs.
Quote:
also screws up their formula for success: having a really good, cheap QB allowing them to allocate $$$ to the rest of the roster. party's over
Their formula for success has been drafting really well and developing that talent.
If not having to pay an elite QB was a model for roster building, the Jets would have won a SB in my lifetime.
The one problem Seattle is running into now is all of that "cheap talent" from "great drafting" is now starting to catch up, cap wise:
Kam Chancellor - 5th round
Richard Sherman - 5th round
Wilson - 3rd round
And while 1st round players, you had guys like Earl Thomas, Bobby Wagner, Russell Okung on rookie deals that are set to/have expire(d).
Very soon, every single one of these guys will be paid (the secondary already are...just waiting on these last 3).
The Seahawks hit on the 2010, 2011, and 2012 drafts. Their last three have not been so remarkable, trading away 1st rounders and getting nothing in return for them (Percy Harvin), and then doing little in the later rounds.
Jimmy Graham could be considered their major draft get if you look at it that way.
That's the beauty of the salary cap........it does not matter what your pedigree is (#1 overall or UFA), if you become all pro caliber you will demand $$$ eventually.
The Seahawks I think will be a good team no matter what happens to Wilson's salary, Wagner's too. I just feel that this perceived unstoppable force will fade a bit and they will become mortal again like many other teams.