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Mara Speaks about JPP

RobCrossRiver56 : 7/28/2015 5:48 pm
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RE: Why would his agent want to make this his money grab?  
Mason : 7/28/2015 11:50 pm : link
In comment 12390454 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
Tells me his hand is f'd. Unless he just hates the Giants, why keep it secret?


Bingo. I been saying this since that Sunday. All positive news was coming from JPP side after the fact that local Miami media broke the story and they called BS on that positive stuff real quick. As I said I trust local guys coverage because they have sources in that hospital. Schefter and ESPN was pushing the positive news from JPP camp until the situation was obvious it wasn't some scrapes and bruises and then they brought some pics.
RE: Keep  
Giants2012 : 7/29/2015 12:25 am : link
In comment 12390533 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
in mind that JPP's hand could be not as messed up as many think, and he wants the Giants to cut ties with him so he can be a UFA.

I don't think this is what is going on, but it is possible.


It's possible yet i would think he would have kept the lines of communication open while other franchise tag players were scoring windfall deals. His silence could indicate he's a real good card player or ?

We will see.

RE: JPP is a money grabbing jackass  
Rolyrock : 7/29/2015 3:07 am : link
Bang!
My guess is that...  
Milton : 7/29/2015 4:56 am : link
JPP's agent thinks there's no percentage in giving the Giants doctors access to his hand while it's still recovering. The less they know about the injury the less ammunition they have if they want to fail him on a physical and place him on NFI. He wants to wait until he thinks JPP can pass a physical before giving the Giants access to see JPP's hand

Only he, JPP, and JPP's doctors know if that day is coming up sooner or later. And until that day comes, the only leverage he has is the Giants desire to get him into meeting rooms and learning the new defense ASAP. It's a weak chip, but it's the only one he has, so he is playing it.
RE: Mike in Philly  
Mike in Philly : 7/29/2015 5:27 am : link
In comment 12390529 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:


Quote:


Pierre-Paul could refuse to sign the Franchise tender and sit out the season: If Pierre-Paul is physically and mentally unable to play in 2015, this might be the best scenario for him. That way he becomes an unrestricted free agent in 2016 and the Giants will have to decide whether or not they want to tender him again with the Franchise tag at an even higher rate than $14.813 million.


Options for Jason Pierre-Paul and Giants Moving Forward - ( New Window )

Thanks Eric. Again I apologize. I obviously missed the article when you posted. At this point, I really don't think anybody knows what JPP wants. I agree with John Mara, JPP is getting some very bad advice.

I wonder what other players have the same agent?
RE: My guess is that...  
HomerJones45 : 7/29/2015 7:54 am : link
In comment 12390579 Milton said:
Quote:
JPP's agent thinks there's no percentage in giving the Giants doctors access to his hand while it's still recovering. The less they know about the injury the less ammunition they have if they want to fail him on a physical and place him on NFI. He wants to wait until he thinks JPP can pass a physical before giving the Giants access to see JPP's hand

Only he, JPP, and JPP's doctors know if that day is coming up sooner or later. And until that day comes, the only leverage he has is the Giants desire to get him into meeting rooms and learning the new defense ASAP. It's a weak chip, but it's the only one he has, so he is playing it.
his other leverage is free agency and need. Giants can't pull the tender without making him a free agent and the Giants need him because they have a clown car of defensive ends behind him.
RE: RE: Mike in Philly  
HomerJones45 : 7/29/2015 8:13 am : link
In comment 12390582 Mike in Philly said:
Quote:
In comment 12390529 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:




Quote:


Pierre-Paul could refuse to sign the Franchise tender and sit out the season: If Pierre-Paul is physically and mentally unable to play in 2015, this might be the best scenario for him. That way he becomes an unrestricted free agent in 2016 and the Giants will have to decide whether or not they want to tender him again with the Franchise tag at an even higher rate than $14.813 million.


Options for Jason Pierre-Paul and Giants Moving Forward - ( New Window )


Thanks Eric. Again I apologize. I obviously missed the article when you posted. At this point, I really don't think anybody knows what JPP wants. I agree with John Mara, JPP is getting some very bad advice.

I wonder what other players have the same agent?
Really? Which side is trying to negotiate in the newspapers?
Jpp has no leverage  
Tuckrule : 7/29/2015 8:14 am : link
Of course being a giant isn't a priority that's stating the obvious. He's a free agent basically missing a finger and refuses to be seen by team doctors. He isn't under contract so he doesn't have to. In good faith one would assume he would want to and have access to the best physicians in the country. He can dig his feet in and sit and become a free agent and see what the market is for a guy missing a finger who has back issues and also hasn't been the same side 2011. Good luck to him. We should move on
I've never seen this as a question of leverage  
Go Terps : 7/29/2015 8:26 am : link
It only would be if the Giants really wanted to retain him, which they never should have wanted to do.

I see this as a question of luck. The timing was enormously unlucky for JPP, and enormously lucky for the Giants. Paying JPP another contract would have been a tremendously stupid mistake, even if he never blew his hand up. JPP's stupidity saved them from themselves.

As I said on my first post on the subject when the news broke, he did them a major favor.
Cut bait. He and his agent are assholes. He still hasn't even  
Victor in CT : 7/29/2015 8:47 am : link
called the Giants. As Eric and I (and others) said in the camp preview thread, this is exactly the type of distraction they don't need from a guy who in all likelihood can't play. Fuck him.
RE: Keep  
Big Blue '56 : 7/29/2015 8:48 am : link
In comment 12390533 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
in mind that JPP's hand could be not as messed up as many think, and he wants the Giants to cut ties with him so he can be a UFA.

I don't think this is what is going on, but it is possible.


If I'm JPP, I'd be more concerned sbout somehow earning that 14.8..He might and I underscore might, be able to secure a big (on the surface) contract, but I doubt very much that the guaranteed money would equal the 14.8 he might get if he reports and follows the Giants "protocol." Imo
As an UFA,  
Big Blue '56 : 7/29/2015 8:48 am : link
that is
Mara is a better man than I  
nicky43 : 7/29/2015 8:58 am : link
I'd tell him to go fk himself and withdraw the tender. I can't believe that the Giants are so desperate that they are fooling themselves into believing JPP will be able to play in any games this year at a performance level above their third string DEs.

If he plays a single game in 2015 I'll be shocked and if he does, I'll bet he doesn't make a single tackle! In fact, I would expect the offensive lineman across from him to taunt and tease him into making penalties that will hurt the Giants.

What a freaking knuckle-head!


Big Blue '56  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/29/2015 9:01 am : link
Again, I don't think this is happening, but say his hand is in better shape than thought.

Giants release him and then he allows other teams to examine him to see the hand. It would be a shitty thing to do but many players get really pissed off about the Franchise tag.
RE: Mara is a better man than I  
Victor in CT : 7/29/2015 9:01 am : link
In comment 12390740 nicky43 said:
Quote:
I'd tell him to go fk himself and withdraw the tender. I can't believe that the Giants are so desperate that they are fooling themselves into believing JPP will be able to play in any games this year at a performance level above their third string DEs.

If he plays a single game in 2015 I'll be shocked and if he does, I'll bet he doesn't make a single tackle! In fact, I would expect the offensive lineman across from him to taunt and tease him into making penalties that will hurt the Giants.

What a freaking knuckle-head!



Agree. JM is a very patient man.
RE: Big Blue '56  
Big Blue '56 : 7/29/2015 9:04 am : link
In comment 12390745 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Again, I don't think this is happening, but say his hand is in better shape than thought.

Giants release him and then he allows other teams to examine him to see the hand. It would be a shitty thing to do but many players get really pissed off about the Franchise tag.


E, I hear you..Even if his hand checks out and is deemed good to go down the road(to what extent is the BIG question) , who in their right mind is going to guarantee him much money? I just don't see it, despite the stupid we've seen around the NFL..
This has dragged on nearly one month  
JonC : 7/29/2015 9:06 am : link
and it will continue. JPP's going to be forced at some point to allow NYG's doctors examine the hand if he stands any chance of being paid a dime.

At this point, it still looks like they're trying to bluff the team into guaranteeing as much money as possible, which in itself is a bad sign for his hand/prognosis, at least in terms of being able to play in 2015.
Agree JonC. If it was better than the speculation and healing quickly  
Victor in CT : 7/29/2015 9:08 am : link
he would show it. Not showing it, nor communicating in any way with the Giants tells me that it is at the worse end of the speculation.
BB'56  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/29/2015 9:15 am : link
The Redskins or Raiders immediately come to mind.
Victor  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/29/2015 9:17 am : link
Most likely, you are correct. But again, the strategy may be to frustrate the Giants enough that they just wash their hands (pun intended) of him.

I've said from Day 1...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/29/2015 9:21 am : link
that patience is a virtue here. the Giants gain little to nothing by withdrawing the tender quickly, and they hold all the cards on JPP's future.

I'd like them to pull the tender - I think they will pull the tender - but there really is no need to rush to do it.
Hold tight  
JonC : 7/29/2015 9:22 am : link
He'll show up before Week 1 and be forced to consider a compromise contact, or he'll sit, unpaid, in 2015.

If he can play and wants out, put him on the trade block, teams with interest can check out his hand and make offers, if he's still worth something.

I wouldn't cut bait without examining his hand, otherwise you're giving him the out he's trying to construct. There should be consequences for his actions, and it's a business transaction for both sides.
RE: Victor  
Victor in CT : 7/29/2015 9:25 am : link
In comment 12390786 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Most likely, you are correct. But again, the strategy may be to frustrate the Giants enough that they just wash their hands (pun intended) of him.


boom-CHEE!
JonC  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/29/2015 9:28 am : link
and that's the worst case scenario for the Giants because if he shows up in Week 1, he'll not only be out of football shape (last practice being December 2014) but he won't know anything about the defense. Even if his hand was OK to play with (big if), how effective would he be in September and October when the Giants have four NFC East games?
Whether one is fer or agin keeping him,  
Big Blue '56 : 7/29/2015 9:28 am : link
no one in their right mind is going to do anything UNTIL his hand is fully examined by the Giants..Not sure why this would be even open for discussion unless I'm missing something...
Big Blue '56  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/29/2015 9:30 am : link
Because the fan sentiment right now is to simply dump him without seeing the hand.

Fatman's inclinations here are probably the most correct.
And luckily..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/29/2015 9:36 am : link
John Mara seems to have the patience needed to deal with the situation correctly.
Just wait until he appears  
Giants2012 : 7/29/2015 9:39 am : link
and save the cash if he's a mess. Otherwise, who knows what contributions he can make. Doubt he's working out with skin grafts.

Eric  
JonC : 7/29/2015 9:50 am : link
At this stage,I'm not counting on him to play. Skin grafts etc my guess is he can't even practice for at least another month. Add on all the things you mentioned, and no time training during recovery and you're looking at missing regular season games.

I'm wondering if they'll be able to procure a trade for him, if that winds up being in the team's best interests in the end. If so, I'd like to see some asset management skill being employed.
FMIC, JonC, BB'56  
Brandon Walsh : 7/29/2015 9:51 am : link
Dead on here.

It costs the Giants absolutely nothing to hold onto JPP until they examine the hand. They gain nothing by withdrawing the tender immediately. Quite frankly, those calling for that sound really stupid. The Giants gain nothing AT THIS CURRENT moment from doing that.

Why would you potentially give up on a rare commodity, a pass rushing defensive end when it costs you effectively nothing to hold onto it right now. As Eric mentioned, what happens if he's fine by October and could be good as new next year?

If his hand is screwed, they can cut bait, whenever that time comes after examining it with no cost.

So for those worrying about the cap money being rolled over, that is still in play AFTER they see the hand.

Those worried about a distraction, Coughlin will shut that down real quick with the media.

Upside: Old JPP
Downside: NOTHING

Simple Risk-Reward in play here
So when will jpp allow them to check his hand?  
micky : 7/29/2015 9:58 am : link
October?
RE: So when will jpp allow them to check his hand?  
Victor in CT : 7/29/2015 10:00 am : link
In comment 12390866 micky said:
Quote:
October?


When his finger grows back............

;-)
RE: RE: So when will jpp allow them to check his hand?  
micky : 7/29/2015 10:02 am : link
In comment 12390868 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 12390866 micky said:


Quote:


October?



When his finger grows back............

;-)


That sounds about right
For someone with a brain as small and a mouth  
mikeygiants : 7/29/2015 10:03 am : link
as big as JPP's I fully expect a tweet or video in the coming weeks showing off his magically healed hand.

Before the incident it sounded like he was a popular guy in his neighborhood, a handful of his neighbors were tweeting about him. Does he live like an agoraphobe now behind the veil of drawn curtains?
absolutely absurd  
aquidneck : 7/29/2015 10:32 am : link
to treat this with anything but patience. JPP had thumb surgery and his finger cut off 3 weeks ago. He blew his damn self up just this very month.

He's not ready to play football I would think. Wouldn't surprise me if despite his being a professional, he's not ready to focus mentally on much but regaining his own health.

We're not losing much not having him in camp. Bigger distraction to the fans I think who perceive the team as a sum of its incremental elements than to the team who prepare to play and are conditioned to take advantage of opportunities.

Meanwhile as many have pointed out Giants hold all the cards and he's making nothing until under contract and healthy.

At this point you count him out. If he can play and contribute positivily this year he'll be worth whatever pro-rated portion of his $14.8mm tender that he earns. After that the team still gets to decide whether they want to be involved in the bidding for JPP's services going forward.

If he flames out the Giants will have at least given him the opportunity to win his severance package. Even if he sits out the maximum 10 weeks specified by the CBA, he'll still earn $5+ million from the Giants this year. That should be enough money for a guy in his 20's to finance a walk away from pro football and consider a new career.

But the Giants can't see the future and don't need to. Patience is the call.
RE: This has dragged on nearly one month  
HomerJones45 : 7/29/2015 10:42 am : link
In comment 12390762 JonC said:
Quote:
and it will continue. JPP's going to be forced at some point to allow NYG's doctors examine the hand if he stands any chance of being paid a dime.

At this point, it still looks like they're trying to bluff the team into guaranteeing as much money as possible, which in itself is a bad sign for his hand/prognosis, at least in terms of being able to play in 2015.
Yes, when his doctor says he can play so he's got some backup and a case to take to the union if the team's chosen doctors say differently and the team tries to put him on the NFIL to the tune of $6 million.

and if Big Jawn had patience, he wouldn't be out giving interviews saying what he is saying. He's trying to force this issue through the newspapers.
That's fine for the other side of the coin  
JonC : 7/29/2015 10:48 am : link
Both sides of the coin hinge on him being examined and demonstrating he's healed and can play pro football before seeing any money.
pretty damning ...  
Hem Roid : 7/29/2015 11:20 am : link
to be called out by the owner of an organization to be handling your business in an unprofessional manner ... this idiot is done, like few of us have been saying from the start ... its not just the amputation, but his entire hand is a mess, ontop of his cavalier attitude and timing of the injury he is no longer worth the problem ...
Homer..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/29/2015 11:25 am : link
I get the impression you are trying to paint the giants as the ones erring on this issue. As far as I can tell, they've played it nearly perfectly given the situation.

If people are finding fault with ownership here, my guess is they would find fault with ownership on anything.
They are not deseparate  
MotownGIANTS : 7/29/2015 11:57 am : link
just being logical....

JPP is the best available DE unless you count the guy that just got released....

JPP has F'd himself and NYG brass can be hard or soft as they please without any PR backlash and soft as this point only gives them goodwill among all future FAs...
RE: Homer..  
HomerJones45 : 7/29/2015 12:38 pm : link
In comment 12391176 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
I get the impression you are trying to paint the giants as the ones erring on this issue. As far as I can tell, they've played it nearly perfectly given the situation.

If people are finding fault with ownership here, my guess is they would find fault with ownership on anything.
Not finding fault. Simply pointing out that far from "bad advice", "stupidity" "greedy" and similar comments, the player's side here has a strategy that it has also pursued and why they have pursued it and that the team is doing some negotiating through friendly press- a long tradition here.

There is a lot of money on the table, and I don't fault the team for trying to part with as little of it as possible - but I, unlike many here, don't fault the player for trying to get as much of it as possible either.
Homer  
Matt M. : 7/29/2015 1:06 pm : link
This is as cut and dry as JPP simply trying to get as much money as he can. This is about him knowingly deceiving the giants and withholding information and trying to get them to bend the rules. He is hurt through a non-football incident and very likely won't be ready to play when the season begins. Because he refused the giants staff access to him in the hospital, has not reported, and has not been examined by any giants staff or doctors, the Giants can't properly determine their next course of action. JPP's telling them he will accept the tag if they agree not to place him on the NFI list is basically extortion. The problem with that is the Giants have more leverage than he does at this point.
I wouldn't just dump him.  
Matt M. : 7/29/2015 1:11 pm : link
But, I also wouldn't agree to his demands. I would have him examined and have him rehabbing with the team doctors. If he can't agree to do so, he remains unsigned, but under Giants control. And, I would only let him sign the tender if he gives up this notion that he can't be placed on the NFI list. If wanted $14.8M guaranteed, then he shouldn't have blown his hand apart playing with illegal fireworks. It's just that simple. they have cap space, so they don't have to release him just on his whim.

To that end, though, even if they do release him, I honestly don't see anyone guaranteeing him anywhere near the $14.8M. As Eric says, a team or two may pay him nice chunk of money and it may even be more than he would earn once coming off the NFI list. But, nobody is guaranteeing him a full salary, especially sight unseen. There is no reason for the Giants to simply relinquish control to his rights.
I think it boils down to a very simple issue..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/29/2015 2:32 pm : link
if it isn't thought that JPP can significantly contribute for 3/4ths of the season, you pull the tender. Obviously, that can't be determined if he holds out of camp, so you can essentially screw him by holding out as long as possible until the tender is pulled. That's not the Giants usual MO, but JPP has forced this on himself.

They might already be looking at alternate options on how to spend some of his cap hit - bringing Jake Long in for another look is one of them, IMO.
RE: Homer  
HomerJones45 : 7/29/2015 3:32 pm : link
In comment 12391502 Matt M. said:
Quote:
This is as cut and dry as JPP simply trying to get as much money as he can. This is about him knowingly deceiving the giants and withholding information and trying to get them to bend the rules. He is hurt through a non-football incident and very likely won't be ready to play when the season begins. Because he refused the giants staff access to him in the hospital, has not reported, and has not been examined by any giants staff or doctors, the Giants can't properly determine their next course of action. JPP's telling them he will accept the tag if they agree not to place him on the NFI list is basically extortion. The problem with that is the Giants have more leverage than he does at this point.
Nonsense. He isn't bending anything and the Giants are not entitled to all the information they wish so they can decide whether to put him on the NFIL.

I would love to see the reactions around here if a BBI'r posted "I got into an accident and my employer wants to examine me and provide all my medical records so they can decide whether to keep me as an employee. Should I be a "team" player and let them have everything or should I play my cards close to my vest? Oh, btw, there is $15 million at stake."
RE: Homer  
HomerJones45 : 7/29/2015 3:37 pm : link
In comment 12391502 Matt M. said:
Quote:
This is as cut and dry as JPP simply trying to get as much money as he can. This is about him knowingly deceiving the giants and withholding information and trying to get them to bend the rules. He is hurt through a non-football incident and very likely won't be ready to play when the season begins. Because he refused the giants staff access to him in the hospital, has not reported, and has not been examined by any giants staff or doctors, the Giants can't properly determine their next course of action. JPP's telling them he will accept the tag if they agree not to place him on the NFI list is basically extortion. The problem with that is the Giants have more leverage than he does at this point.
"extortion"? Grow up. It's called "bargaining."
RE: RE: Homer  
Victor in CT : 7/29/2015 3:43 pm : link
In comment 12391933 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 12391502 Matt M. said:


Quote:


This is as cut and dry as JPP simply trying to get as much money as he can. This is about him knowingly deceiving the giants and withholding information and trying to get them to bend the rules. He is hurt through a non-football incident and very likely won't be ready to play when the season begins. Because he refused the giants staff access to him in the hospital, has not reported, and has not been examined by any giants staff or doctors, the Giants can't properly determine their next course of action. JPP's telling them he will accept the tag if they agree not to place him on the NFI list is basically extortion. The problem with that is the Giants have more leverage than he does at this point.

"extortion"? Grow up. It's called "bargaining."


If you mention the word extortion again, I'll have your legs broken. - Mayor Carmine di Pasto
While it is bargaining..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/29/2015 4:10 pm : link
it really isn't very effective when the employer holds the cards here.

The bottom line is that JPP's strategy changed as a result of the accident. While he could have possibly been offered and/or signed a long-term deal or at least have signed the tender for 2015, because of the injury, he basically went into a CYA mode, barred the team from helping him (which the Giants most likely would have done given their past efforts in helping out injured guys with their team of respected doctors), and painted himself into a corner.

In terms of bargaining, it hasn't worked out too well since the team can do nothing and not suffer. The way he has gone about it you can look at as bargaining, but it has been both ineffective and amateurish.
RE: RE: Homer  
Matt M. : 7/29/2015 4:23 pm : link
In comment 12391933 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 12391502 Matt M. said:


Quote:


This is as cut and dry as JPP simply trying to get as much money as he can. This is about him knowingly deceiving the giants and withholding information and trying to get them to bend the rules. He is hurt through a non-football incident and very likely won't be ready to play when the season begins. Because he refused the giants staff access to him in the hospital, has not reported, and has not been examined by any giants staff or doctors, the Giants can't properly determine their next course of action. JPP's telling them he will accept the tag if they agree not to place him on the NFI list is basically extortion. The problem with that is the Giants have more leverage than he does at this point.

"extortion"? Grow up. It's called "bargaining."
Homer - JPP has not been using normal bargaining/negotiating tactics. He has been overly aggressive and delusional. Yes, I would equate what he is doing to low level extortion.
I'm glad that Mara went public with his feelings  
Jersey55 : 7/29/2015 4:35 pm : link
about the way JPP and his "agent" handled the situation with the Giants who went down to the hospital to see him . Its about time JPP was made to understand who is really on his side in this and not like his agent who is only in it for what he can get out of JPP.
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