“I think I may have used some language that I wouldn’t like my grandchildren to hear me use,’’ Mara said of his initial reaction to the news. “I could not believe, that here we haven’t even gone to training camp yet and we’ve lost two starters — one [left tackle Will Beatty] in the weight room and one to a fireworks accident. So it was more of a state of disbelief that I was in. I’ve been around a long time, seen a lot of things … but this one was a shock.’’
That's John Mara basically telling JJP enough is enough Â
...get your butt into the facility. Important to note he indicates the tender offer isn't getting signed sight unseen. If JPP wants a crack at that $14.8M he needs to be examined.
“We obviously are going to have to see him first and determine whether or not he’s capable of playing this year before we take one step further,’’ said Mara, who added it is not appropriate to even consider a long-term deal at this time.
“We’d like him to come in and report, and at the very least, learn the new defense that Steve Spagnuolo is putting in,’’ Mara said. “And to have some of the best doctors in the world, who are located within a few miles of this place, take a look at him and see if there’s anything further that can be done to help him.’’
I think he is probably following the advise of his agent ... Â
He currently does not have a contract, so it make sense that his agent would want to conceal the seriousness of his injury as much as possible to not further damage his value (if that is even possible at this point). At this point the Giants have the upper hand in the negotiations.
he gains nothing (IMO, and I admit I'm no expert) by not having the Giants examine him.
Sign the FT and the Giants put him on NFI and don't pay him.
Eventually they are going to have to examine him and the longer they wait the less time the Giants doctors have to institute their own recovery plan, etc.
just seems like he's making a bad situation worse.
And Mara seems pissed from reading his words (not that I blame him)
just pay him the 14.8 million easy peasy. No one really needs their dominant hand index finger or the use of their thumb specially NFL defensive ends seeking mega deals. It's all good big guy.
Again, I go back to LT. Yes, he wasn't a choir boy off the field, but LT's combination of physical skill and outstanding command of the mental aspects of the game made him a very, very rare talent.
JPP just has/had the physical tools. Antonio Pierce, for the most part, was mostly about the mental aspects of the game.
LT was outstanding in both.
RE: RE: Just reading Mara's words and not knowing his tone Â
this whole thing is a bloody mess. Unless the Giants simply dump him, JPP can drag his feet on this all summer.
Let him drag his feet, it doesn't cost the Giants anything. Giants have the leverage here. And I wouldn't cut him, I believe if they NFI him then next year if someone signs him (if he can even play football) they'll be eligible for a comp pick.
just pay him the 14.8 million easy peasy. No one really needs their dominant hand index finger or the use of their thumb specially NFL defensive ends seeking mega deals. It's all good big guy.
Right now, I'm only interested in the Giants getting something of value (either some effective playing time [unlikely] or some kind of compensation when he leaves) from / for JPP.
RE: I think he is probably following the advise of his agent ... Â
He currently does not have a contract, so it make sense that his agent would want to conceal the seriousness of his injury as much as possible to not further damage his value (if that is even possible at this point).
I think the opposite is the case. By keeping the Chinese Wall between JPP and team access to assess JPP's hand, it promotes an assessment of maximum damage, speculative to be sure. My opinion is that, being embargoed from a medical assessment, that is to say a factual, scientific assessment, the team and prospective employers of JPP are going to assume the worst.
If the hand "wasn't so bad/"I'm fine", then why put him in darkness?
It's a bit of a cop-out to blame his agent/advice Â
he's had enough time to come to a more reasonable decision. He fucked up royally and his response was to effectively lash out at the team, as if Mara lit the fireworks.
He's a schmuck. He's still our schmuck, but there's no getting around it.
just pay him the 14.8 million easy peasy. No one really needs their dominant hand index finger or the use of their thumb specially NFL defensive ends seeking mega deals. It's all good big guy.
What information came forward that would allow for us to discredit the opinions of more than one orthopedic surgeon, one of which worked for an NFL team for 17 seasons?
It may be bitter irony that JPP and the JPP of tight ends May both be Â
and I normally like the owners to be silent, but the timing here was perfectly orchestrated.
Mara wants JPP in camp, and examined by Giants medical staff. Hopefully JPP and whoever is advising him take this message as their best chance to salvage a relationship and JPP reports to camp this week with everyone else.
if he doesn't and he drags things out I don't see a good ending.
RE: Cutting him without examing him would be idiotic Â
and I normally like the owners to be silent, but the timing here was perfectly orchestrated.
Mara wants JPP in camp, and examined by Giants medical staff. Hopefully JPP and whoever is advising him take this message as their best chance to salvage a relationship and JPP reports to camp this week with everyone else.
if he doesn't and he drags things out I don't see a good ending.
Agent to JPP: "Go in to camp kid, just keep your hands in your pockets"
Which I think they should, how much is he going to get THIS SEASON from anyone else?? Can't they Giants put in a matching offer from any team that offers him a contract and wouldn't it likely be significantly less than the Tag number? And if, out of spite, he just doesn't want to sign with us for recinding the Tag, then which of you would be upset, I sure as hell won't be.
but if any circumstance calls for it, this is one. Let him play his game, wait til the last minute, then say 'no thanks'.
Giants cut loose early those who they want to be nice to. JPP wants to be a dick, I suspect the Giants will string him along just as he's stringing them along. He wants to be cut loose. They don't want him cut loose, or else they wouldn't have tagged him. he'll play them. if they're smart, they'll play him. hold out til there is no hope for his hand.
If nothing else, there is no rush to cut him loose.
the problem for the Giants here is this. Even if JPP can pass a physical, if he is completely out of football shape and has missed all of the classroom work, he probably won't get many snaps per game for probably a month. There are three months in a season. Do the Giants want to pay $925,000 per week on JPP?
Time to cut bait. This year is going to be lost. If he does recover down the road, he won't be a Giant anyway.
It is not time to do anything. Which is why the Giants aren't doing anything. This is a wait-until-you-have-more-information time, not a do-something-right-now time.
Moore and Owa are locks. Ayers was our best DE last year, and Selvie was just signed. Wynn has flashed and they would be foolish to cut him. So this asshole is going to saunter in three games in and we have to cut one of those players. Screw him, he isn't even going to be on the team next year.
the Giants might want to frontload a deal for Eli at least in year 1 (with lower years 2 and 3) using some of the JPP money to make the best of the situation
RE: RE: Just reading Mara's words and not knowing his tone Â
If I were JPP, I tread lightly now and cooperate if I want to still be a Giant.
I think JPP wants money with being a Giant not 1st on the priority list.
Of course he does. I am sure Big Jawn would love these stout young fellows to play for nothing for the love of Big Blue and the greater enrichment of the Mara and Tisch families, but that's not life and anyone that thinks that it is or should be is either naive or stupid.
The Giants could have JPP in tomorrow; just sign off on the N-FIL. They won't do that and so he won't sign.
that JPPs camp is worried that the Giants medical team won't like what they see if they examine him.
If the prognosis was good wouldn't it be in his best interest to let them look at the hand, take the 14 mil, and get a shiny new contract here or elsewhere next off season?
If they look at him then pull the tag the entire NFL is going to know the is finished....And I'm starting to think he is finished.
RE: It's a bit of a cop-out to blame his agent/advice Â
he's had enough time to come to a more reasonable decision. He fucked up royally and his response was to effectively lash out at the team, as if Mara lit the fireworks.
He's a schmuck. He's still our schmuck, but there's no getting around it.
He's making a reasonable decision; he will sign his tender when his doctor says he can play OR if the Giants pull the tender, he will be a free agent and available to the highest bidder. And don't fool yourselves; there will be bidders. He's not holding news conferences and negotiating in the newspapers.
And let's stop with this "best doctors in the world" bullshit. JPP's camp knows who these doctors will be working for and he's not betting $925,000 for six weeks on the outcome.
Of course the Giants aren't going to like what they see Â
That was clear from Mr. Mara's statement. IMO if he refuses to allow such an examination the team can file a grievance and hold onto his rights without paying him. See you in court JPP and no $$$ for you. He'd be an even bigger idiot than he has been to date if he adopts such a scorched earth policy.
Given the atrocious advice he's been receiving to date from his camp nothing would surprise me at this point.
RE: RE: RE: Just reading Mara's words and not knowing his tone Â
Just think how nice it would be to have JPP back on the active roster around mid-season and Will Beatty a couple of weeks later. It will be the reverse of the last few years.
way I see a possible somewhat positive outcome here is if JPP signs a compromise tender NOW and gets his butt into camp.
Eric - quick question - if JPP never signs the tender, and the team never pulls it, would they still own his rights for 1 more season? I apologize in advance if this has been asked and I missed the response.
I see almost zero reasom to have JPP on this team in 2015. Â
JPP had an explosion in his hand so bad, that the finger and knuckle had to be amputated, the thumb fractured, and skin graphs to his arm.
This is major trauma to his right hand. There is no way he can recover and be effective this year. JPP and his camp know this and that's why he's been so evasive.
JPP might be ready to play in 2016. 14 months post injury..maybe
I think he's done here. They are going to pull the tender, and I wouldn't be shocked if they do it as soon as camp opens.
I agree with this. John Mara is clearly livid about sending his guys down there and having them sent away. It is a slap in the face to the organization. It may well have been the case that the Giants would have taken a look at the hand and said 'Whoa, this man can't play football with that hand." and pulled the tender. But they would have taken care of him in some way and perhaps left the door open for his return.
But now, they are setting up a tender-pull. I am sure that JPP's agent was in a panic and at all costs did not want to let the Giants see that hand.
The agent and doctor are hoping that a prosthetic miracle saves the day.What a terrible shame.
I don't they're a prosthetic miracle as much as waiting both the skin grafts and thumb to heal. I'd put more stock in the thumb healing than those skin grafts being ready. I'm not even considering a prosthetic anything. The finger is gone.
he's had enough time to come to a more reasonable decision. He fucked up royally and his response was to effectively lash out at the team, as if Mara lit the fireworks.
He's a schmuck. He's still our schmuck, but there's no getting around it.
He's making a reasonable decision; he will sign his tender when his doctor says he can play OR if the Giants pull the tender, he will be a free agent and available to the highest bidder. And don't fool yourselves; there will be bidders. He's not holding news conferences and negotiating in the newspapers.
And let's stop with this "best doctors in the world" bullshit. JPP's camp knows who these doctors will be working for and he's not betting $925,000 for six weeks on the outcome.
I'm not niave about players wanting the $$ After all, what did ole gy says: "its about the money".. But, on the other hand, you have a former player coming back on a 1 day contract to retire as a " giant"
The guy blew his hand up. It is still amazing to me that anyone would think he'd play, let alone play well, in 2015.
Some simple research indicates that many, if not all, skin grafts don't have sweat or oil glands so the site has to be lubricated a lot to prevent drying out. It appears this takes a minimum of two-three months before glands appear. I doubt the area is ready for the possible trauma of football for a while.
Pierre-Paul could refuse to sign the Franchise tender and sit out the season: If Pierre-Paul is physically and mentally unable to play in 2015, this might be the best scenario for him. That way he becomes an unrestricted free agent in 2016 and the Giants will have to decide whether or not they want to tender him again with the Franchise tag at an even higher rate than $14.813 million.
Were a total hoax. Think about it. Has JPP's camp ever acknowledged the extent of the injury? He never had an amputation or broken bones, just the grafts. Joke's on Mara. JPP says "eff you, BBI and somebody better pay me some money!"
Derp.
RE: Why would his agent want to make this his money grab? Â
Tells me his hand is f'd. Unless he just hates the Giants, why keep it secret?
Bingo. I been saying this since that Sunday. All positive news was coming from JPP side after the fact that local Miami media broke the story and they called BS on that positive stuff real quick. As I said I trust local guys coverage because they have sources in that hospital. Schefter and ESPN was pushing the positive news from JPP camp until the situation was obvious it wasn't some scrapes and bruises and then they brought some pics.
in mind that JPP's hand could be not as messed up as many think, and he wants the Giants to cut ties with him so he can be a UFA.
I don't think this is what is going on, but it is possible.
It's possible yet i would think he would have kept the lines of communication open while other franchise tag players were scoring windfall deals. His silence could indicate he's a real good card player or ?
JPP's agent thinks there's no percentage in giving the Giants doctors access to his hand while it's still recovering. The less they know about the injury the less ammunition they have if they want to fail him on a physical and place him on NFI. He wants to wait until he thinks JPP can pass a physical before giving the Giants access to see JPP's hand
Only he, JPP, and JPP's doctors know if that day is coming up sooner or later. And until that day comes, the only leverage he has is the Giants desire to get him into meeting rooms and learning the new defense ASAP. It's a weak chip, but it's the only one he has, so he is playing it.
Pierre-Paul could refuse to sign the Franchise tender and sit out the season: If Pierre-Paul is physically and mentally unable to play in 2015, this might be the best scenario for him. That way he becomes an unrestricted free agent in 2016 and the Giants will have to decide whether or not they want to tender him again with the Franchise tag at an even higher rate than $14.813 million.
Options for Jason Pierre-Paul and Giants Moving Forward - ( New Window )
Thanks Eric. Again I apologize. I obviously missed the article when you posted. At this point, I really don't think anybody knows what JPP wants. I agree with John Mara, JPP is getting some very bad advice.
JPP's agent thinks there's no percentage in giving the Giants doctors access to his hand while it's still recovering. The less they know about the injury the less ammunition they have if they want to fail him on a physical and place him on NFI. He wants to wait until he thinks JPP can pass a physical before giving the Giants access to see JPP's hand
Only he, JPP, and JPP's doctors know if that day is coming up sooner or later. And until that day comes, the only leverage he has is the Giants desire to get him into meeting rooms and learning the new defense ASAP. It's a weak chip, but it's the only one he has, so he is playing it.
his other leverage is free agency and need. Giants can't pull the tender without making him a free agent and the Giants need him because they have a clown car of defensive ends behind him.
Pierre-Paul could refuse to sign the Franchise tender and sit out the season: If Pierre-Paul is physically and mentally unable to play in 2015, this might be the best scenario for him. That way he becomes an unrestricted free agent in 2016 and the Giants will have to decide whether or not they want to tender him again with the Franchise tag at an even higher rate than $14.813 million.
Options for Jason Pierre-Paul and Giants Moving Forward - ( New Window )
Thanks Eric. Again I apologize. I obviously missed the article when you posted. At this point, I really don't think anybody knows what JPP wants. I agree with John Mara, JPP is getting some very bad advice.
I wonder what other players have the same agent?
Really? Which side is trying to negotiate in the newspapers?
Of course being a giant isn't a priority that's stating the obvious. He's a free agent basically missing a finger and refuses to be seen by team doctors. He isn't under contract so he doesn't have to. In good faith one would assume he would want to and have access to the best physicians in the country. He can dig his feet in and sit and become a free agent and see what the market is for a guy missing a finger who has back issues and also hasn't been the same side 2011. Good luck to him. We should move on
It only would be if the Giants really wanted to retain him, which they never should have wanted to do.
I see this as a question of luck. The timing was enormously unlucky for JPP, and enormously lucky for the Giants. Paying JPP another contract would have been a tremendously stupid mistake, even if he never blew his hand up. JPP's stupidity saved them from themselves.
As I said on my first post on the subject when the news broke, he did them a major favor.
Cut bait. He and his agent are assholes. He still hasn't even Â
called the Giants. As Eric and I (and others) said in the camp preview thread, this is exactly the type of distraction they don't need from a guy who in all likelihood can't play. Fuck him.
in mind that JPP's hand could be not as messed up as many think, and he wants the Giants to cut ties with him so he can be a UFA.
I don't think this is what is going on, but it is possible.
If I'm JPP, I'd be more concerned sbout somehow earning that 14.8..He might and I underscore might, be able to secure a big (on the surface) contract, but I doubt very much that the guaranteed money would equal the 14.8 he might get if he reports and follows the Giants "protocol." Imo
I'd tell him to go fk himself and withdraw the tender. I can't believe that the Giants are so desperate that they are fooling themselves into believing JPP will be able to play in any games this year at a performance level above their third string DEs.
If he plays a single game in 2015 I'll be shocked and if he does, I'll bet he doesn't make a single tackle! In fact, I would expect the offensive lineman across from him to taunt and tease him into making penalties that will hurt the Giants.
Again, I don't think this is happening, but say his hand is in better shape than thought.
Giants release him and then he allows other teams to examine him to see the hand. It would be a shitty thing to do but many players get really pissed off about the Franchise tag.
I'd tell him to go fk himself and withdraw the tender. I can't believe that the Giants are so desperate that they are fooling themselves into believing JPP will be able to play in any games this year at a performance level above their third string DEs.
If he plays a single game in 2015 I'll be shocked and if he does, I'll bet he doesn't make a single tackle! In fact, I would expect the offensive lineman across from him to taunt and tease him into making penalties that will hurt the Giants.
Again, I don't think this is happening, but say his hand is in better shape than thought.
Giants release him and then he allows other teams to examine him to see the hand. It would be a shitty thing to do but many players get really pissed off about the Franchise tag.
E, I hear you..Even if his hand checks out and is deemed good to go down the road(to what extent is the BIG question) , who in their right mind is going to guarantee him much money? I just don't see it, despite the stupid we've seen around the NFL..
and it will continue. JPP's going to be forced at some point to allow NYG's doctors examine the hand if he stands any chance of being paid a dime.
At this point, it still looks like they're trying to bluff the team into guaranteeing as much money as possible, which in itself is a bad sign for his hand/prognosis, at least in terms of being able to play in 2015.
Agree JonC. If it was better than the speculation and healing quickly Â
He'll show up before Week 1 and be forced to consider a compromise contact, or he'll sit, unpaid, in 2015.
If he can play and wants out, put him on the trade block, teams with interest can check out his hand and make offers, if he's still worth something.
I wouldn't cut bait without examining his hand, otherwise you're giving him the out he's trying to construct. There should be consequences for his actions, and it's a business transaction for both sides.
and that's the worst case scenario for the Giants because if he shows up in Week 1, he'll not only be out of football shape (last practice being December 2014) but he won't know anything about the defense. Even if his hand was OK to play with (big if), how effective would he be in September and October when the Giants have four NFC East games?
no one in their right mind is going to do anything UNTIL his hand is fully examined by the Giants..Not sure why this would be even open for discussion unless I'm missing something...
At this stage,I'm not counting on him to play. Skin grafts etc my guess is he can't even practice for at least another month. Add on all the things you mentioned, and no time training during recovery and you're looking at missing regular season games.
I'm wondering if they'll be able to procure a trade for him, if that winds up being in the team's best interests in the end. If so, I'd like to see some asset management skill being employed.
It costs the Giants absolutely nothing to hold onto JPP until they examine the hand. They gain nothing by withdrawing the tender immediately. Quite frankly, those calling for that sound really stupid. The Giants gain nothing AT THIS CURRENT moment from doing that.
Why would you potentially give up on a rare commodity, a pass rushing defensive end when it costs you effectively nothing to hold onto it right now. As Eric mentioned, what happens if he's fine by October and could be good as new next year?
If his hand is screwed, they can cut bait, whenever that time comes after examining it with no cost.
So for those worrying about the cap money being rolled over, that is still in play AFTER they see the hand.
Those worried about a distraction, Coughlin will shut that down real quick with the media.
as big as JPP's I fully expect a tweet or video in the coming weeks showing off his magically healed hand.
Before the incident it sounded like he was a popular guy in his neighborhood, a handful of his neighbors were tweeting about him. Does he live like an agoraphobe now behind the veil of drawn curtains?
to treat this with anything but patience. JPP had thumb surgery and his finger cut off 3 weeks ago. He blew his damn self up just this very month.
He's not ready to play football I would think. Wouldn't surprise me if despite his being a professional, he's not ready to focus mentally on much but regaining his own health.
We're not losing much not having him in camp. Bigger distraction to the fans I think who perceive the team as a sum of its incremental elements than to the team who prepare to play and are conditioned to take advantage of opportunities.
Meanwhile as many have pointed out Giants hold all the cards and he's making nothing until under contract and healthy.
At this point you count him out. If he can play and contribute positivily this year he'll be worth whatever pro-rated portion of his $14.8mm tender that he earns. After that the team still gets to decide whether they want to be involved in the bidding for JPP's services going forward.
If he flames out the Giants will have at least given him the opportunity to win his severance package. Even if he sits out the maximum 10 weeks specified by the CBA, he'll still earn $5+ million from the Giants this year. That should be enough money for a guy in his 20's to finance a walk away from pro football and consider a new career.
But the Giants can't see the future and don't need to. Patience is the call.
and it will continue. JPP's going to be forced at some point to allow NYG's doctors examine the hand if he stands any chance of being paid a dime.
At this point, it still looks like they're trying to bluff the team into guaranteeing as much money as possible, which in itself is a bad sign for his hand/prognosis, at least in terms of being able to play in 2015.
Yes, when his doctor says he can play so he's got some backup and a case to take to the union if the team's chosen doctors say differently and the team tries to put him on the NFIL to the tune of $6 million.
and if Big Jawn had patience, he wouldn't be out giving interviews saying what he is saying. He's trying to force this issue through the newspapers.
to be called out by the owner of an organization to be handling your business in an unprofessional manner ... this idiot is done, like few of us have been saying from the start ... its not just the amputation, but his entire hand is a mess, ontop of his cavalier attitude and timing of the injury he is no longer worth the problem ...
I get the impression you are trying to paint the giants as the ones erring on this issue. As far as I can tell, they've played it nearly perfectly given the situation.
If people are finding fault with ownership here, my guess is they would find fault with ownership on anything.
JPP is the best available DE unless you count the guy that just got released....
JPP has F'd himself and NYG brass can be hard or soft as they please without any PR backlash and soft as this point only gives them goodwill among all future FAs...
I get the impression you are trying to paint the giants as the ones erring on this issue. As far as I can tell, they've played it nearly perfectly given the situation.
If people are finding fault with ownership here, my guess is they would find fault with ownership on anything.
Not finding fault. Simply pointing out that far from "bad advice", "stupidity" "greedy" and similar comments, the player's side here has a strategy that it has also pursued and why they have pursued it and that the team is doing some negotiating through friendly press- a long tradition here.
There is a lot of money on the table, and I don't fault the team for trying to part with as little of it as possible - but I, unlike many here, don't fault the player for trying to get as much of it as possible either.
This is as cut and dry as JPP simply trying to get as much money as he can. This is about him knowingly deceiving the giants and withholding information and trying to get them to bend the rules. He is hurt through a non-football incident and very likely won't be ready to play when the season begins. Because he refused the giants staff access to him in the hospital, has not reported, and has not been examined by any giants staff or doctors, the Giants can't properly determine their next course of action. JPP's telling them he will accept the tag if they agree not to place him on the NFI list is basically extortion. The problem with that is the Giants have more leverage than he does at this point.
But, I also wouldn't agree to his demands. I would have him examined and have him rehabbing with the team doctors. If he can't agree to do so, he remains unsigned, but under Giants control. And, I would only let him sign the tender if he gives up this notion that he can't be placed on the NFI list. If wanted $14.8M guaranteed, then he shouldn't have blown his hand apart playing with illegal fireworks. It's just that simple. they have cap space, so they don't have to release him just on his whim.
To that end, though, even if they do release him, I honestly don't see anyone guaranteeing him anywhere near the $14.8M. As Eric says, a team or two may pay him nice chunk of money and it may even be more than he would earn once coming off the NFI list. But, nobody is guaranteeing him a full salary, especially sight unseen. There is no reason for the Giants to simply relinquish control to his rights.
if it isn't thought that JPP can significantly contribute for 3/4ths of the season, you pull the tender. Obviously, that can't be determined if he holds out of camp, so you can essentially screw him by holding out as long as possible until the tender is pulled. That's not the Giants usual MO, but JPP has forced this on himself.
They might already be looking at alternate options on how to spend some of his cap hit - bringing Jake Long in for another look is one of them, IMO.
This is as cut and dry as JPP simply trying to get as much money as he can. This is about him knowingly deceiving the giants and withholding information and trying to get them to bend the rules. He is hurt through a non-football incident and very likely won't be ready to play when the season begins. Because he refused the giants staff access to him in the hospital, has not reported, and has not been examined by any giants staff or doctors, the Giants can't properly determine their next course of action. JPP's telling them he will accept the tag if they agree not to place him on the NFI list is basically extortion. The problem with that is the Giants have more leverage than he does at this point.
Nonsense. He isn't bending anything and the Giants are not entitled to all the information they wish so they can decide whether to put him on the NFIL.
I would love to see the reactions around here if a BBI'r posted "I got into an accident and my employer wants to examine me and provide all my medical records so they can decide whether to keep me as an employee. Should I be a "team" player and let them have everything or should I play my cards close to my vest? Oh, btw, there is $15 million at stake."
This is as cut and dry as JPP simply trying to get as much money as he can. This is about him knowingly deceiving the giants and withholding information and trying to get them to bend the rules. He is hurt through a non-football incident and very likely won't be ready to play when the season begins. Because he refused the giants staff access to him in the hospital, has not reported, and has not been examined by any giants staff or doctors, the Giants can't properly determine their next course of action. JPP's telling them he will accept the tag if they agree not to place him on the NFI list is basically extortion. The problem with that is the Giants have more leverage than he does at this point.
This is as cut and dry as JPP simply trying to get as much money as he can. This is about him knowingly deceiving the giants and withholding information and trying to get them to bend the rules. He is hurt through a non-football incident and very likely won't be ready to play when the season begins. Because he refused the giants staff access to him in the hospital, has not reported, and has not been examined by any giants staff or doctors, the Giants can't properly determine their next course of action. JPP's telling them he will accept the tag if they agree not to place him on the NFI list is basically extortion. The problem with that is the Giants have more leverage than he does at this point.
"extortion"? Grow up. It's called "bargaining."
If you mention the word extortion again, I'll have your legs broken. - Mayor Carmine di Pasto
it really isn't very effective when the employer holds the cards here.
The bottom line is that JPP's strategy changed as a result of the accident. While he could have possibly been offered and/or signed a long-term deal or at least have signed the tender for 2015, because of the injury, he basically went into a CYA mode, barred the team from helping him (which the Giants most likely would have done given their past efforts in helping out injured guys with their team of respected doctors), and painted himself into a corner.
In terms of bargaining, it hasn't worked out too well since the team can do nothing and not suffer. The way he has gone about it you can look at as bargaining, but it has been both ineffective and amateurish.
This is as cut and dry as JPP simply trying to get as much money as he can. This is about him knowingly deceiving the giants and withholding information and trying to get them to bend the rules. He is hurt through a non-football incident and very likely won't be ready to play when the season begins. Because he refused the giants staff access to him in the hospital, has not reported, and has not been examined by any giants staff or doctors, the Giants can't properly determine their next course of action. JPP's telling them he will accept the tag if they agree not to place him on the NFI list is basically extortion. The problem with that is the Giants have more leverage than he does at this point.
"extortion"? Grow up. It's called "bargaining."
Homer - JPP has not been using normal bargaining/negotiating tactics. He has been overly aggressive and delusional. Yes, I would equate what he is doing to low level extortion.
I'm glad that Mara went public with his feelings Â
about the way JPP and his "agent" handled the situation with the Giants who went down to the hospital to see him . Its about time JPP was made to understand who is really on his side in this and not like his agent who is only in it for what he can get out of JPP.
“The fact that they went down there and hung around for two days and were not allowed to see him was very disappointing to me,’’ Mara said.
Sign the FT and the Giants put him on NFI and don't pay him.
Eventually they are going to have to examine him and the longer they wait the less time the Giants doctors have to institute their own recovery plan, etc.
just seems like he's making a bad situation worse.
And Mara seems pissed from reading his words (not that I blame him)
I think JPP wants money with being a Giant not 1st on the priority list.
Again, I go back to LT. Yes, he wasn't a choir boy off the field, but LT's combination of physical skill and outstanding command of the mental aspects of the game made him a very, very rare talent.
JPP just has/had the physical tools. Antonio Pierce, for the most part, was mostly about the mental aspects of the game.
LT was outstanding in both.
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If I were JPP, I tread lightly now and cooperate if I want to still be a Giant.
I think JPP wants money with being a Giant not 1st on the priority list.
Well then if so..I guess its buh-bye jpp
Let him drag his feet, it doesn't cost the Giants anything. Giants have the leverage here. And I wouldn't cut him, I believe if they NFI him then next year if someone signs him (if he can even play football) they'll be eligible for a comp pick.
Meh. No biggie, right? lel.
Right now, I'm only interested in the Giants getting something of value (either some effective playing time [unlikely] or some kind of compensation when he leaves) from / for JPP.
I think the opposite is the case. By keeping the Chinese Wall between JPP and team access to assess JPP's hand, it promotes an assessment of maximum damage, speculative to be sure. My opinion is that, being embargoed from a medical assessment, that is to say a factual, scientific assessment, the team and prospective employers of JPP are going to assume the worst.
If the hand "wasn't so bad/"I'm fine", then why put him in darkness?
He's a schmuck. He's still our schmuck, but there's no getting around it.
What information came forward that would allow for us to discredit the opinions of more than one orthopedic surgeon, one of which worked for an NFL team for 17 seasons?
I hope I am wrong.
Mara wants JPP in camp, and examined by Giants medical staff. Hopefully JPP and whoever is advising him take this message as their best chance to salvage a relationship and JPP reports to camp this week with everyone else.
if he doesn't and he drags things out I don't see a good ending.
Mara wants JPP in camp, and examined by Giants medical staff. Hopefully JPP and whoever is advising him take this message as their best chance to salvage a relationship and JPP reports to camp this week with everyone else.
if he doesn't and he drags things out I don't see a good ending.
Agent to JPP: "Go in to camp kid, just keep your hands in your pockets"
But the Giants could use the extra $15 million next year by rolling it over.
But the Giants could use the extra $15 million next year by rolling it over.
If he's on NFI all year, don't they recoup that $15M, players on NFI don't get paid, right?
and if he doesn't sign a contract he doesn't get paid anyway, I see no play for JPP here that the Giants don't have the leverage.
BTW...there was a chorus of posters saying the same thing from day one. Some chose not to listen.
Giants cut loose early those who they want to be nice to. JPP wants to be a dick, I suspect the Giants will string him along just as he's stringing them along. He wants to be cut loose. They don't want him cut loose, or else they wouldn't have tagged him. he'll play them. if they're smart, they'll play him. hold out til there is no hope for his hand.
If nothing else, there is no rush to cut him loose.
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If I were JPP, I tread lightly now and cooperate if I want to still be a Giant.
I think JPP wants money with being a Giant not 1st on the priority list.
The Giants could have JPP in tomorrow; just sign off on the N-FIL. They won't do that and so he won't sign.
If the prognosis was good wouldn't it be in his best interest to let them look at the hand, take the 14 mil, and get a shiny new contract here or elsewhere next off season?
If they look at him then pull the tag the entire NFL is going to know the is finished....And I'm starting to think he is finished.
He's a schmuck. He's still our schmuck, but there's no getting around it.
And let's stop with this "best doctors in the world" bullshit. JPP's camp knows who these doctors will be working for and he's not betting $925,000 for six weeks on the outcome.
Given the atrocious advice he's been receiving to date from his camp nothing would surprise me at this point.
Giants could have JPP in tomorrow; just sign off on the N-FIL. They won't do that and so he won't sign.
If he didn't want to be on the NFIL he shouldn't have blown his hand off. That is after all a non-football injury right?
He did this to himself and he doesn't want to face the consequences.
Eric - quick question - if JPP never signs the tender, and the team never pulls it, would they still own his rights for 1 more season? I apologize in advance if this has been asked and I missed the response.
This is major trauma to his right hand. There is no way he can recover and be effective this year. JPP and his camp know this and that's why he's been so evasive.
JPP might be ready to play in 2016. 14 months post injury..maybe
Cut Bait..
Thanks for the sticky!
I agree with this. John Mara is clearly livid about sending his guys down there and having them sent away. It is a slap in the face to the organization. It may well have been the case that the Giants would have taken a look at the hand and said 'Whoa, this man can't play football with that hand." and pulled the tender. But they would have taken care of him in some way and perhaps left the door open for his return.
But now, they are setting up a tender-pull. I am sure that JPP's agent was in a panic and at all costs did not want to let the Giants see that hand.
I don't they're a prosthetic miracle as much as waiting both the skin grafts and thumb to heal. I'd put more stock in the thumb healing than those skin grafts being ready. I'm not even considering a prosthetic anything. The finger is gone.
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Go Terps has this right from the beginning. As usual.
BTW...there was a chorus of posters saying the same thing from day one. Some chose not to listen.
Day 1? How about within minutes of hearing this jackass blew off his hand. Ties with this fuckhead should have been cut immediately!
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he's had enough time to come to a more reasonable decision. He fucked up royally and his response was to effectively lash out at the team, as if Mara lit the fireworks.
He's a schmuck. He's still our schmuck, but there's no getting around it.
He's making a reasonable decision; he will sign his tender when his doctor says he can play OR if the Giants pull the tender, he will be a free agent and available to the highest bidder. And don't fool yourselves; there will be bidders. He's not holding news conferences and negotiating in the newspapers.
And let's stop with this "best doctors in the world" bullshit. JPP's camp knows who these doctors will be working for and he's not betting $925,000 for six weeks on the outcome.
I'm not niave about players wanting the $$ After all, what did ole gy says: "its about the money".. But, on the other hand, you have a former player coming back on a 1 day contract to retire as a " giant"
What a shitty way to start a season. Cut bait before this becomes an even bigger distraction.
Some simple research indicates that many, if not all, skin grafts don't have sweat or oil glands so the site has to be lubricated a lot to prevent drying out. It appears this takes a minimum of two-three months before glands appear. I doubt the area is ready for the possible trauma of football for a while.
Options for Jason Pierre-Paul and Giants Moving Forward - ( New Window )
I don't think this is what is going on, but it is possible.
Derp.
Bingo. I been saying this since that Sunday. All positive news was coming from JPP side after the fact that local Miami media broke the story and they called BS on that positive stuff real quick. As I said I trust local guys coverage because they have sources in that hospital. Schefter and ESPN was pushing the positive news from JPP camp until the situation was obvious it wasn't some scrapes and bruises and then they brought some pics.
I don't think this is what is going on, but it is possible.
It's possible yet i would think he would have kept the lines of communication open while other franchise tag players were scoring windfall deals. His silence could indicate he's a real good card player or ?
We will see.
Only he, JPP, and JPP's doctors know if that day is coming up sooner or later. And until that day comes, the only leverage he has is the Giants desire to get him into meeting rooms and learning the new defense ASAP. It's a weak chip, but it's the only one he has, so he is playing it.
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Pierre-Paul could refuse to sign the Franchise tender and sit out the season: If Pierre-Paul is physically and mentally unable to play in 2015, this might be the best scenario for him. That way he becomes an unrestricted free agent in 2016 and the Giants will have to decide whether or not they want to tender him again with the Franchise tag at an even higher rate than $14.813 million.
Options for Jason Pierre-Paul and Giants Moving Forward - ( New Window )
Thanks Eric. Again I apologize. I obviously missed the article when you posted. At this point, I really don't think anybody knows what JPP wants. I agree with John Mara, JPP is getting some very bad advice.
I wonder what other players have the same agent?
Only he, JPP, and JPP's doctors know if that day is coming up sooner or later. And until that day comes, the only leverage he has is the Giants desire to get him into meeting rooms and learning the new defense ASAP. It's a weak chip, but it's the only one he has, so he is playing it.
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Pierre-Paul could refuse to sign the Franchise tender and sit out the season: If Pierre-Paul is physically and mentally unable to play in 2015, this might be the best scenario for him. That way he becomes an unrestricted free agent in 2016 and the Giants will have to decide whether or not they want to tender him again with the Franchise tag at an even higher rate than $14.813 million.
Options for Jason Pierre-Paul and Giants Moving Forward - ( New Window )
Thanks Eric. Again I apologize. I obviously missed the article when you posted. At this point, I really don't think anybody knows what JPP wants. I agree with John Mara, JPP is getting some very bad advice.
I wonder what other players have the same agent?
I see this as a question of luck. The timing was enormously unlucky for JPP, and enormously lucky for the Giants. Paying JPP another contract would have been a tremendously stupid mistake, even if he never blew his hand up. JPP's stupidity saved them from themselves.
As I said on my first post on the subject when the news broke, he did them a major favor.
I don't think this is what is going on, but it is possible.
If I'm JPP, I'd be more concerned sbout somehow earning that 14.8..He might and I underscore might, be able to secure a big (on the surface) contract, but I doubt very much that the guaranteed money would equal the 14.8 he might get if he reports and follows the Giants "protocol." Imo
If he plays a single game in 2015 I'll be shocked and if he does, I'll bet he doesn't make a single tackle! In fact, I would expect the offensive lineman across from him to taunt and tease him into making penalties that will hurt the Giants.
What a freaking knuckle-head!
Giants release him and then he allows other teams to examine him to see the hand. It would be a shitty thing to do but many players get really pissed off about the Franchise tag.
If he plays a single game in 2015 I'll be shocked and if he does, I'll bet he doesn't make a single tackle! In fact, I would expect the offensive lineman across from him to taunt and tease him into making penalties that will hurt the Giants.
What a freaking knuckle-head!
Agree. JM is a very patient man.
Giants release him and then he allows other teams to examine him to see the hand. It would be a shitty thing to do but many players get really pissed off about the Franchise tag.
E, I hear you..Even if his hand checks out and is deemed good to go down the road(to what extent is the BIG question) , who in their right mind is going to guarantee him much money? I just don't see it, despite the stupid we've seen around the NFL..
At this point, it still looks like they're trying to bluff the team into guaranteeing as much money as possible, which in itself is a bad sign for his hand/prognosis, at least in terms of being able to play in 2015.
I'd like them to pull the tender - I think they will pull the tender - but there really is no need to rush to do it.
If he can play and wants out, put him on the trade block, teams with interest can check out his hand and make offers, if he's still worth something.
I wouldn't cut bait without examining his hand, otherwise you're giving him the out he's trying to construct. There should be consequences for his actions, and it's a business transaction for both sides.
boom-CHEE!
Fatman's inclinations here are probably the most correct.
I'm wondering if they'll be able to procure a trade for him, if that winds up being in the team's best interests in the end. If so, I'd like to see some asset management skill being employed.
It costs the Giants absolutely nothing to hold onto JPP until they examine the hand. They gain nothing by withdrawing the tender immediately. Quite frankly, those calling for that sound really stupid. The Giants gain nothing AT THIS CURRENT moment from doing that.
Why would you potentially give up on a rare commodity, a pass rushing defensive end when it costs you effectively nothing to hold onto it right now. As Eric mentioned, what happens if he's fine by October and could be good as new next year?
If his hand is screwed, they can cut bait, whenever that time comes after examining it with no cost.
So for those worrying about the cap money being rolled over, that is still in play AFTER they see the hand.
Those worried about a distraction, Coughlin will shut that down real quick with the media.
Upside: Old JPP
Downside: NOTHING
Simple Risk-Reward in play here
When his finger grows back............
;-)
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October?
When his finger grows back............
;-)
That sounds about right
Before the incident it sounded like he was a popular guy in his neighborhood, a handful of his neighbors were tweeting about him. Does he live like an agoraphobe now behind the veil of drawn curtains?
He's not ready to play football I would think. Wouldn't surprise me if despite his being a professional, he's not ready to focus mentally on much but regaining his own health.
We're not losing much not having him in camp. Bigger distraction to the fans I think who perceive the team as a sum of its incremental elements than to the team who prepare to play and are conditioned to take advantage of opportunities.
Meanwhile as many have pointed out Giants hold all the cards and he's making nothing until under contract and healthy.
At this point you count him out. If he can play and contribute positivily this year he'll be worth whatever pro-rated portion of his $14.8mm tender that he earns. After that the team still gets to decide whether they want to be involved in the bidding for JPP's services going forward.
If he flames out the Giants will have at least given him the opportunity to win his severance package. Even if he sits out the maximum 10 weeks specified by the CBA, he'll still earn $5+ million from the Giants this year. That should be enough money for a guy in his 20's to finance a walk away from pro football and consider a new career.
But the Giants can't see the future and don't need to. Patience is the call.
At this point, it still looks like they're trying to bluff the team into guaranteeing as much money as possible, which in itself is a bad sign for his hand/prognosis, at least in terms of being able to play in 2015.
and if Big Jawn had patience, he wouldn't be out giving interviews saying what he is saying. He's trying to force this issue through the newspapers.
If people are finding fault with ownership here, my guess is they would find fault with ownership on anything.
JPP is the best available DE unless you count the guy that just got released....
JPP has F'd himself and NYG brass can be hard or soft as they please without any PR backlash and soft as this point only gives them goodwill among all future FAs...
If people are finding fault with ownership here, my guess is they would find fault with ownership on anything.
There is a lot of money on the table, and I don't fault the team for trying to part with as little of it as possible - but I, unlike many here, don't fault the player for trying to get as much of it as possible either.
To that end, though, even if they do release him, I honestly don't see anyone guaranteeing him anywhere near the $14.8M. As Eric says, a team or two may pay him nice chunk of money and it may even be more than he would earn once coming off the NFI list. But, nobody is guaranteeing him a full salary, especially sight unseen. There is no reason for the Giants to simply relinquish control to his rights.
They might already be looking at alternate options on how to spend some of his cap hit - bringing Jake Long in for another look is one of them, IMO.
I would love to see the reactions around here if a BBI'r posted "I got into an accident and my employer wants to examine me and provide all my medical records so they can decide whether to keep me as an employee. Should I be a "team" player and let them have everything or should I play my cards close to my vest? Oh, btw, there is $15 million at stake."
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This is as cut and dry as JPP simply trying to get as much money as he can. This is about him knowingly deceiving the giants and withholding information and trying to get them to bend the rules. He is hurt through a non-football incident and very likely won't be ready to play when the season begins. Because he refused the giants staff access to him in the hospital, has not reported, and has not been examined by any giants staff or doctors, the Giants can't properly determine their next course of action. JPP's telling them he will accept the tag if they agree not to place him on the NFI list is basically extortion. The problem with that is the Giants have more leverage than he does at this point.
"extortion"? Grow up. It's called "bargaining."
If you mention the word extortion again, I'll have your legs broken. - Mayor Carmine di Pasto
The bottom line is that JPP's strategy changed as a result of the accident. While he could have possibly been offered and/or signed a long-term deal or at least have signed the tender for 2015, because of the injury, he basically went into a CYA mode, barred the team from helping him (which the Giants most likely would have done given their past efforts in helping out injured guys with their team of respected doctors), and painted himself into a corner.
In terms of bargaining, it hasn't worked out too well since the team can do nothing and not suffer. The way he has gone about it you can look at as bargaining, but it has been both ineffective and amateurish.
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This is as cut and dry as JPP simply trying to get as much money as he can. This is about him knowingly deceiving the giants and withholding information and trying to get them to bend the rules. He is hurt through a non-football incident and very likely won't be ready to play when the season begins. Because he refused the giants staff access to him in the hospital, has not reported, and has not been examined by any giants staff or doctors, the Giants can't properly determine their next course of action. JPP's telling them he will accept the tag if they agree not to place him on the NFI list is basically extortion. The problem with that is the Giants have more leverage than he does at this point.
"extortion"? Grow up. It's called "bargaining."