Moore and Owa are locks. Ayers was our best DE last year, and Selvie was just signed. Wynn has flashed and they would be foolish to cut him. So this asshole is going to saunter in three games in and we have to cut one of those players. Screw him, he isn't even going to be on the team next year.
the Giants might want to frontload a deal for Eli at least in year 1 (with lower years 2 and 3) using some of the JPP money to make the best of the situation
RE: RE: Just reading Mara's words and not knowing his tone
If I were JPP, I tread lightly now and cooperate if I want to still be a Giant.
I think JPP wants money with being a Giant not 1st on the priority list.
Of course he does. I am sure Big Jawn would love these stout young fellows to play for nothing for the love of Big Blue and the greater enrichment of the Mara and Tisch families, but that's not life and anyone that thinks that it is or should be is either naive or stupid.
The Giants could have JPP in tomorrow; just sign off on the N-FIL. They won't do that and so he won't sign.
that JPPs camp is worried that the Giants medical team won't like what they see if they examine him.
If the prognosis was good wouldn't it be in his best interest to let them look at the hand, take the 14 mil, and get a shiny new contract here or elsewhere next off season?
If they look at him then pull the tag the entire NFL is going to know the is finished....And I'm starting to think he is finished.
RE: It's a bit of a cop-out to blame his agent/advice
he's had enough time to come to a more reasonable decision. He fucked up royally and his response was to effectively lash out at the team, as if Mara lit the fireworks.
He's a schmuck. He's still our schmuck, but there's no getting around it.
He's making a reasonable decision; he will sign his tender when his doctor says he can play OR if the Giants pull the tender, he will be a free agent and available to the highest bidder. And don't fool yourselves; there will be bidders. He's not holding news conferences and negotiating in the newspapers.
And let's stop with this "best doctors in the world" bullshit. JPP's camp knows who these doctors will be working for and he's not betting $925,000 for six weeks on the outcome.
Of course the Giants aren't going to like what they see
That was clear from Mr. Mara's statement. IMO if he refuses to allow such an examination the team can file a grievance and hold onto his rights without paying him. See you in court JPP and no $$$ for you. He'd be an even bigger idiot than he has been to date if he adopts such a scorched earth policy.
Given the atrocious advice he's been receiving to date from his camp nothing would surprise me at this point.
RE: RE: RE: Just reading Mara's words and not knowing his tone
Just think how nice it would be to have JPP back on the active roster around mid-season and Will Beatty a couple of weeks later. It will be the reverse of the last few years.
way I see a possible somewhat positive outcome here is if JPP signs a compromise tender NOW and gets his butt into camp.
Eric - quick question - if JPP never signs the tender, and the team never pulls it, would they still own his rights for 1 more season? I apologize in advance if this has been asked and I missed the response.
I see almost zero reasom to have JPP on this team in 2015.
JPP had an explosion in his hand so bad, that the finger and knuckle had to be amputated, the thumb fractured, and skin graphs to his arm.
This is major trauma to his right hand. There is no way he can recover and be effective this year. JPP and his camp know this and that's why he's been so evasive.
JPP might be ready to play in 2016. 14 months post injury..maybe
I think he's done here. They are going to pull the tender, and I wouldn't be shocked if they do it as soon as camp opens.
I agree with this. John Mara is clearly livid about sending his guys down there and having them sent away. It is a slap in the face to the organization. It may well have been the case that the Giants would have taken a look at the hand and said 'Whoa, this man can't play football with that hand." and pulled the tender. But they would have taken care of him in some way and perhaps left the door open for his return.
But now, they are setting up a tender-pull. I am sure that JPP's agent was in a panic and at all costs did not want to let the Giants see that hand.
The agent and doctor are hoping that a prosthetic miracle saves the day.What a terrible shame.
I don't they're a prosthetic miracle as much as waiting both the skin grafts and thumb to heal. I'd put more stock in the thumb healing than those skin grafts being ready. I'm not even considering a prosthetic anything. The finger is gone.
he's had enough time to come to a more reasonable decision. He fucked up royally and his response was to effectively lash out at the team, as if Mara lit the fireworks.
He's a schmuck. He's still our schmuck, but there's no getting around it.
He's making a reasonable decision; he will sign his tender when his doctor says he can play OR if the Giants pull the tender, he will be a free agent and available to the highest bidder. And don't fool yourselves; there will be bidders. He's not holding news conferences and negotiating in the newspapers.
And let's stop with this "best doctors in the world" bullshit. JPP's camp knows who these doctors will be working for and he's not betting $925,000 for six weeks on the outcome.
I'm not niave about players wanting the $$ After all, what did ole gy says: "its about the money".. But, on the other hand, you have a former player coming back on a 1 day contract to retire as a " giant"
The guy blew his hand up. It is still amazing to me that anyone would think he'd play, let alone play well, in 2015.
Some simple research indicates that many, if not all, skin grafts don't have sweat or oil glands so the site has to be lubricated a lot to prevent drying out. It appears this takes a minimum of two-three months before glands appear. I doubt the area is ready for the possible trauma of football for a while.
Pierre-Paul could refuse to sign the Franchise tender and sit out the season: If Pierre-Paul is physically and mentally unable to play in 2015, this might be the best scenario for him. That way he becomes an unrestricted free agent in 2016 and the Giants will have to decide whether or not they want to tender him again with the Franchise tag at an even higher rate than $14.813 million.
Were a total hoax. Think about it. Has JPP's camp ever acknowledged the extent of the injury? He never had an amputation or broken bones, just the grafts. Joke's on Mara. JPP says "eff you, BBI and somebody better pay me some money!"
Derp.
RE: Why would his agent want to make this his money grab?
Tells me his hand is f'd. Unless he just hates the Giants, why keep it secret?
Bingo. I been saying this since that Sunday. All positive news was coming from JPP side after the fact that local Miami media broke the story and they called BS on that positive stuff real quick. As I said I trust local guys coverage because they have sources in that hospital. Schefter and ESPN was pushing the positive news from JPP camp until the situation was obvious it wasn't some scrapes and bruises and then they brought some pics.
in mind that JPP's hand could be not as messed up as many think, and he wants the Giants to cut ties with him so he can be a UFA.
I don't think this is what is going on, but it is possible.
It's possible yet i would think he would have kept the lines of communication open while other franchise tag players were scoring windfall deals. His silence could indicate he's a real good card player or ?
JPP's agent thinks there's no percentage in giving the Giants doctors access to his hand while it's still recovering. The less they know about the injury the less ammunition they have if they want to fail him on a physical and place him on NFI. He wants to wait until he thinks JPP can pass a physical before giving the Giants access to see JPP's hand
Only he, JPP, and JPP's doctors know if that day is coming up sooner or later. And until that day comes, the only leverage he has is the Giants desire to get him into meeting rooms and learning the new defense ASAP. It's a weak chip, but it's the only one he has, so he is playing it.
Pierre-Paul could refuse to sign the Franchise tender and sit out the season: If Pierre-Paul is physically and mentally unable to play in 2015, this might be the best scenario for him. That way he becomes an unrestricted free agent in 2016 and the Giants will have to decide whether or not they want to tender him again with the Franchise tag at an even higher rate than $14.813 million.
Options for Jason Pierre-Paul and Giants Moving Forward - ( New Window )
Thanks Eric. Again I apologize. I obviously missed the article when you posted. At this point, I really don't think anybody knows what JPP wants. I agree with John Mara, JPP is getting some very bad advice.
JPP's agent thinks there's no percentage in giving the Giants doctors access to his hand while it's still recovering. The less they know about the injury the less ammunition they have if they want to fail him on a physical and place him on NFI. He wants to wait until he thinks JPP can pass a physical before giving the Giants access to see JPP's hand
Only he, JPP, and JPP's doctors know if that day is coming up sooner or later. And until that day comes, the only leverage he has is the Giants desire to get him into meeting rooms and learning the new defense ASAP. It's a weak chip, but it's the only one he has, so he is playing it.
his other leverage is free agency and need. Giants can't pull the tender without making him a free agent and the Giants need him because they have a clown car of defensive ends behind him.
Pierre-Paul could refuse to sign the Franchise tender and sit out the season: If Pierre-Paul is physically and mentally unable to play in 2015, this might be the best scenario for him. That way he becomes an unrestricted free agent in 2016 and the Giants will have to decide whether or not they want to tender him again with the Franchise tag at an even higher rate than $14.813 million.
Options for Jason Pierre-Paul and Giants Moving Forward - ( New Window )
Thanks Eric. Again I apologize. I obviously missed the article when you posted. At this point, I really don't think anybody knows what JPP wants. I agree with John Mara, JPP is getting some very bad advice.
I wonder what other players have the same agent?
Really? Which side is trying to negotiate in the newspapers?
Of course being a giant isn't a priority that's stating the obvious. He's a free agent basically missing a finger and refuses to be seen by team doctors. He isn't under contract so he doesn't have to. In good faith one would assume he would want to and have access to the best physicians in the country. He can dig his feet in and sit and become a free agent and see what the market is for a guy missing a finger who has back issues and also hasn't been the same side 2011. Good luck to him. We should move on
It only would be if the Giants really wanted to retain him, which they never should have wanted to do.
I see this as a question of luck. The timing was enormously unlucky for JPP, and enormously lucky for the Giants. Paying JPP another contract would have been a tremendously stupid mistake, even if he never blew his hand up. JPP's stupidity saved them from themselves.
As I said on my first post on the subject when the news broke, he did them a major favor.
Cut bait. He and his agent are assholes. He still hasn't even
called the Giants. As Eric and I (and others) said in the camp preview thread, this is exactly the type of distraction they don't need from a guy who in all likelihood can't play. Fuck him.
in mind that JPP's hand could be not as messed up as many think, and he wants the Giants to cut ties with him so he can be a UFA.
I don't think this is what is going on, but it is possible.
If I'm JPP, I'd be more concerned sbout somehow earning that 14.8..He might and I underscore might, be able to secure a big (on the surface) contract, but I doubt very much that the guaranteed money would equal the 14.8 he might get if he reports and follows the Giants "protocol." Imo
I'd tell him to go fk himself and withdraw the tender. I can't believe that the Giants are so desperate that they are fooling themselves into believing JPP will be able to play in any games this year at a performance level above their third string DEs.
If he plays a single game in 2015 I'll be shocked and if he does, I'll bet he doesn't make a single tackle! In fact, I would expect the offensive lineman across from him to taunt and tease him into making penalties that will hurt the Giants.
Again, I don't think this is happening, but say his hand is in better shape than thought.
Giants release him and then he allows other teams to examine him to see the hand. It would be a shitty thing to do but many players get really pissed off about the Franchise tag.
I'd tell him to go fk himself and withdraw the tender. I can't believe that the Giants are so desperate that they are fooling themselves into believing JPP will be able to play in any games this year at a performance level above their third string DEs.
If he plays a single game in 2015 I'll be shocked and if he does, I'll bet he doesn't make a single tackle! In fact, I would expect the offensive lineman across from him to taunt and tease him into making penalties that will hurt the Giants.
Again, I don't think this is happening, but say his hand is in better shape than thought.
Giants release him and then he allows other teams to examine him to see the hand. It would be a shitty thing to do but many players get really pissed off about the Franchise tag.
E, I hear you..Even if his hand checks out and is deemed good to go down the road(to what extent is the BIG question) , who in their right mind is going to guarantee him much money? I just don't see it, despite the stupid we've seen around the NFL..
and it will continue. JPP's going to be forced at some point to allow NYG's doctors examine the hand if he stands any chance of being paid a dime.
At this point, it still looks like they're trying to bluff the team into guaranteeing as much money as possible, which in itself is a bad sign for his hand/prognosis, at least in terms of being able to play in 2015.
Agree JonC. If it was better than the speculation and healing quickly
He'll show up before Week 1 and be forced to consider a compromise contact, or he'll sit, unpaid, in 2015.
If he can play and wants out, put him on the trade block, teams with interest can check out his hand and make offers, if he's still worth something.
I wouldn't cut bait without examining his hand, otherwise you're giving him the out he's trying to construct. There should be consequences for his actions, and it's a business transaction for both sides.
and that's the worst case scenario for the Giants because if he shows up in Week 1, he'll not only be out of football shape (last practice being December 2014) but he won't know anything about the defense. Even if his hand was OK to play with (big if), how effective would he be in September and October when the Giants have four NFC East games?
no one in their right mind is going to do anything UNTIL his hand is fully examined by the Giants..Not sure why this would be even open for discussion unless I'm missing something...
Quote:
If I were JPP, I tread lightly now and cooperate if I want to still be a Giant.
I think JPP wants money with being a Giant not 1st on the priority list.
The Giants could have JPP in tomorrow; just sign off on the N-FIL. They won't do that and so he won't sign.
If the prognosis was good wouldn't it be in his best interest to let them look at the hand, take the 14 mil, and get a shiny new contract here or elsewhere next off season?
If they look at him then pull the tag the entire NFL is going to know the is finished....And I'm starting to think he is finished.
He's a schmuck. He's still our schmuck, but there's no getting around it.
And let's stop with this "best doctors in the world" bullshit. JPP's camp knows who these doctors will be working for and he's not betting $925,000 for six weeks on the outcome.
Given the atrocious advice he's been receiving to date from his camp nothing would surprise me at this point.
Giants could have JPP in tomorrow; just sign off on the N-FIL. They won't do that and so he won't sign.
If he didn't want to be on the NFIL he shouldn't have blown his hand off. That is after all a non-football injury right?
He did this to himself and he doesn't want to face the consequences.
Eric - quick question - if JPP never signs the tender, and the team never pulls it, would they still own his rights for 1 more season? I apologize in advance if this has been asked and I missed the response.
This is major trauma to his right hand. There is no way he can recover and be effective this year. JPP and his camp know this and that's why he's been so evasive.
JPP might be ready to play in 2016. 14 months post injury..maybe
Cut Bait..
Thanks for the sticky!
I agree with this. John Mara is clearly livid about sending his guys down there and having them sent away. It is a slap in the face to the organization. It may well have been the case that the Giants would have taken a look at the hand and said 'Whoa, this man can't play football with that hand." and pulled the tender. But they would have taken care of him in some way and perhaps left the door open for his return.
But now, they are setting up a tender-pull. I am sure that JPP's agent was in a panic and at all costs did not want to let the Giants see that hand.
I don't they're a prosthetic miracle as much as waiting both the skin grafts and thumb to heal. I'd put more stock in the thumb healing than those skin grafts being ready. I'm not even considering a prosthetic anything. The finger is gone.
Quote:
Go Terps has this right from the beginning. As usual.
BTW...there was a chorus of posters saying the same thing from day one. Some chose not to listen.
Day 1? How about within minutes of hearing this jackass blew off his hand. Ties with this fuckhead should have been cut immediately!
Quote:
he's had enough time to come to a more reasonable decision. He fucked up royally and his response was to effectively lash out at the team, as if Mara lit the fireworks.
He's a schmuck. He's still our schmuck, but there's no getting around it.
He's making a reasonable decision; he will sign his tender when his doctor says he can play OR if the Giants pull the tender, he will be a free agent and available to the highest bidder. And don't fool yourselves; there will be bidders. He's not holding news conferences and negotiating in the newspapers.
And let's stop with this "best doctors in the world" bullshit. JPP's camp knows who these doctors will be working for and he's not betting $925,000 for six weeks on the outcome.
I'm not niave about players wanting the $$ After all, what did ole gy says: "its about the money".. But, on the other hand, you have a former player coming back on a 1 day contract to retire as a " giant"
What a shitty way to start a season. Cut bait before this becomes an even bigger distraction.
Some simple research indicates that many, if not all, skin grafts don't have sweat or oil glands so the site has to be lubricated a lot to prevent drying out. It appears this takes a minimum of two-three months before glands appear. I doubt the area is ready for the possible trauma of football for a while.
Options for Jason Pierre-Paul and Giants Moving Forward - ( New Window )
I don't think this is what is going on, but it is possible.
Derp.
Bingo. I been saying this since that Sunday. All positive news was coming from JPP side after the fact that local Miami media broke the story and they called BS on that positive stuff real quick. As I said I trust local guys coverage because they have sources in that hospital. Schefter and ESPN was pushing the positive news from JPP camp until the situation was obvious it wasn't some scrapes and bruises and then they brought some pics.
I don't think this is what is going on, but it is possible.
It's possible yet i would think he would have kept the lines of communication open while other franchise tag players were scoring windfall deals. His silence could indicate he's a real good card player or ?
We will see.
Only he, JPP, and JPP's doctors know if that day is coming up sooner or later. And until that day comes, the only leverage he has is the Giants desire to get him into meeting rooms and learning the new defense ASAP. It's a weak chip, but it's the only one he has, so he is playing it.
Quote:
Pierre-Paul could refuse to sign the Franchise tender and sit out the season: If Pierre-Paul is physically and mentally unable to play in 2015, this might be the best scenario for him. That way he becomes an unrestricted free agent in 2016 and the Giants will have to decide whether or not they want to tender him again with the Franchise tag at an even higher rate than $14.813 million.
Options for Jason Pierre-Paul and Giants Moving Forward - ( New Window )
Thanks Eric. Again I apologize. I obviously missed the article when you posted. At this point, I really don't think anybody knows what JPP wants. I agree with John Mara, JPP is getting some very bad advice.
I wonder what other players have the same agent?
Only he, JPP, and JPP's doctors know if that day is coming up sooner or later. And until that day comes, the only leverage he has is the Giants desire to get him into meeting rooms and learning the new defense ASAP. It's a weak chip, but it's the only one he has, so he is playing it.
Quote:
Quote:
Pierre-Paul could refuse to sign the Franchise tender and sit out the season: If Pierre-Paul is physically and mentally unable to play in 2015, this might be the best scenario for him. That way he becomes an unrestricted free agent in 2016 and the Giants will have to decide whether or not they want to tender him again with the Franchise tag at an even higher rate than $14.813 million.
Options for Jason Pierre-Paul and Giants Moving Forward - ( New Window )
Thanks Eric. Again I apologize. I obviously missed the article when you posted. At this point, I really don't think anybody knows what JPP wants. I agree with John Mara, JPP is getting some very bad advice.
I wonder what other players have the same agent?
I see this as a question of luck. The timing was enormously unlucky for JPP, and enormously lucky for the Giants. Paying JPP another contract would have been a tremendously stupid mistake, even if he never blew his hand up. JPP's stupidity saved them from themselves.
As I said on my first post on the subject when the news broke, he did them a major favor.
I don't think this is what is going on, but it is possible.
If I'm JPP, I'd be more concerned sbout somehow earning that 14.8..He might and I underscore might, be able to secure a big (on the surface) contract, but I doubt very much that the guaranteed money would equal the 14.8 he might get if he reports and follows the Giants "protocol." Imo
If he plays a single game in 2015 I'll be shocked and if he does, I'll bet he doesn't make a single tackle! In fact, I would expect the offensive lineman across from him to taunt and tease him into making penalties that will hurt the Giants.
What a freaking knuckle-head!
Giants release him and then he allows other teams to examine him to see the hand. It would be a shitty thing to do but many players get really pissed off about the Franchise tag.
If he plays a single game in 2015 I'll be shocked and if he does, I'll bet he doesn't make a single tackle! In fact, I would expect the offensive lineman across from him to taunt and tease him into making penalties that will hurt the Giants.
What a freaking knuckle-head!
Agree. JM is a very patient man.
Giants release him and then he allows other teams to examine him to see the hand. It would be a shitty thing to do but many players get really pissed off about the Franchise tag.
E, I hear you..Even if his hand checks out and is deemed good to go down the road(to what extent is the BIG question) , who in their right mind is going to guarantee him much money? I just don't see it, despite the stupid we've seen around the NFL..
At this point, it still looks like they're trying to bluff the team into guaranteeing as much money as possible, which in itself is a bad sign for his hand/prognosis, at least in terms of being able to play in 2015.
I'd like them to pull the tender - I think they will pull the tender - but there really is no need to rush to do it.
If he can play and wants out, put him on the trade block, teams with interest can check out his hand and make offers, if he's still worth something.
I wouldn't cut bait without examining his hand, otherwise you're giving him the out he's trying to construct. There should be consequences for his actions, and it's a business transaction for both sides.
boom-CHEE!
Fatman's inclinations here are probably the most correct.