At this stage,I'm not counting on him to play. Skin grafts etc my guess is he can't even practice for at least another month. Add on all the things you mentioned, and no time training during recovery and you're looking at missing regular season games.
I'm wondering if they'll be able to procure a trade for him, if that winds up being in the team's best interests in the end. If so, I'd like to see some asset management skill being employed.
It costs the Giants absolutely nothing to hold onto JPP until they examine the hand. They gain nothing by withdrawing the tender immediately. Quite frankly, those calling for that sound really stupid. The Giants gain nothing AT THIS CURRENT moment from doing that.
Why would you potentially give up on a rare commodity, a pass rushing defensive end when it costs you effectively nothing to hold onto it right now. As Eric mentioned, what happens if he's fine by October and could be good as new next year?
If his hand is screwed, they can cut bait, whenever that time comes after examining it with no cost.
So for those worrying about the cap money being rolled over, that is still in play AFTER they see the hand.
Those worried about a distraction, Coughlin will shut that down real quick with the media.
as big as JPP's I fully expect a tweet or video in the coming weeks showing off his magically healed hand.
Before the incident it sounded like he was a popular guy in his neighborhood, a handful of his neighbors were tweeting about him. Does he live like an agoraphobe now behind the veil of drawn curtains?
to treat this with anything but patience. JPP had thumb surgery and his finger cut off 3 weeks ago. He blew his damn self up just this very month.
He's not ready to play football I would think. Wouldn't surprise me if despite his being a professional, he's not ready to focus mentally on much but regaining his own health.
We're not losing much not having him in camp. Bigger distraction to the fans I think who perceive the team as a sum of its incremental elements than to the team who prepare to play and are conditioned to take advantage of opportunities.
Meanwhile as many have pointed out Giants hold all the cards and he's making nothing until under contract and healthy.
At this point you count him out. If he can play and contribute positivily this year he'll be worth whatever pro-rated portion of his $14.8mm tender that he earns. After that the team still gets to decide whether they want to be involved in the bidding for JPP's services going forward.
If he flames out the Giants will have at least given him the opportunity to win his severance package. Even if he sits out the maximum 10 weeks specified by the CBA, he'll still earn $5+ million from the Giants this year. That should be enough money for a guy in his 20's to finance a walk away from pro football and consider a new career.
But the Giants can't see the future and don't need to. Patience is the call.
and it will continue. JPP's going to be forced at some point to allow NYG's doctors examine the hand if he stands any chance of being paid a dime.
At this point, it still looks like they're trying to bluff the team into guaranteeing as much money as possible, which in itself is a bad sign for his hand/prognosis, at least in terms of being able to play in 2015.
Yes, when his doctor says he can play so he's got some backup and a case to take to the union if the team's chosen doctors say differently and the team tries to put him on the NFIL to the tune of $6 million.
and if Big Jawn had patience, he wouldn't be out giving interviews saying what he is saying. He's trying to force this issue through the newspapers.
to be called out by the owner of an organization to be handling your business in an unprofessional manner ... this idiot is done, like few of us have been saying from the start ... its not just the amputation, but his entire hand is a mess, ontop of his cavalier attitude and timing of the injury he is no longer worth the problem ...
I get the impression you are trying to paint the giants as the ones erring on this issue. As far as I can tell, they've played it nearly perfectly given the situation.
If people are finding fault with ownership here, my guess is they would find fault with ownership on anything.
JPP is the best available DE unless you count the guy that just got released....
JPP has F'd himself and NYG brass can be hard or soft as they please without any PR backlash and soft as this point only gives them goodwill among all future FAs...
I get the impression you are trying to paint the giants as the ones erring on this issue. As far as I can tell, they've played it nearly perfectly given the situation.
If people are finding fault with ownership here, my guess is they would find fault with ownership on anything.
Not finding fault. Simply pointing out that far from "bad advice", "stupidity" "greedy" and similar comments, the player's side here has a strategy that it has also pursued and why they have pursued it and that the team is doing some negotiating through friendly press- a long tradition here.
There is a lot of money on the table, and I don't fault the team for trying to part with as little of it as possible - but I, unlike many here, don't fault the player for trying to get as much of it as possible either.
This is as cut and dry as JPP simply trying to get as much money as he can. This is about him knowingly deceiving the giants and withholding information and trying to get them to bend the rules. He is hurt through a non-football incident and very likely won't be ready to play when the season begins. Because he refused the giants staff access to him in the hospital, has not reported, and has not been examined by any giants staff or doctors, the Giants can't properly determine their next course of action. JPP's telling them he will accept the tag if they agree not to place him on the NFI list is basically extortion. The problem with that is the Giants have more leverage than he does at this point.
But, I also wouldn't agree to his demands. I would have him examined and have him rehabbing with the team doctors. If he can't agree to do so, he remains unsigned, but under Giants control. And, I would only let him sign the tender if he gives up this notion that he can't be placed on the NFI list. If wanted $14.8M guaranteed, then he shouldn't have blown his hand apart playing with illegal fireworks. It's just that simple. they have cap space, so they don't have to release him just on his whim.
To that end, though, even if they do release him, I honestly don't see anyone guaranteeing him anywhere near the $14.8M. As Eric says, a team or two may pay him nice chunk of money and it may even be more than he would earn once coming off the NFI list. But, nobody is guaranteeing him a full salary, especially sight unseen. There is no reason for the Giants to simply relinquish control to his rights.
if it isn't thought that JPP can significantly contribute for 3/4ths of the season, you pull the tender. Obviously, that can't be determined if he holds out of camp, so you can essentially screw him by holding out as long as possible until the tender is pulled. That's not the Giants usual MO, but JPP has forced this on himself.
They might already be looking at alternate options on how to spend some of his cap hit - bringing Jake Long in for another look is one of them, IMO.
This is as cut and dry as JPP simply trying to get as much money as he can. This is about him knowingly deceiving the giants and withholding information and trying to get them to bend the rules. He is hurt through a non-football incident and very likely won't be ready to play when the season begins. Because he refused the giants staff access to him in the hospital, has not reported, and has not been examined by any giants staff or doctors, the Giants can't properly determine their next course of action. JPP's telling them he will accept the tag if they agree not to place him on the NFI list is basically extortion. The problem with that is the Giants have more leverage than he does at this point.
Nonsense. He isn't bending anything and the Giants are not entitled to all the information they wish so they can decide whether to put him on the NFIL.
I would love to see the reactions around here if a BBI'r posted "I got into an accident and my employer wants to examine me and provide all my medical records so they can decide whether to keep me as an employee. Should I be a "team" player and let them have everything or should I play my cards close to my vest? Oh, btw, there is $15 million at stake."
This is as cut and dry as JPP simply trying to get as much money as he can. This is about him knowingly deceiving the giants and withholding information and trying to get them to bend the rules. He is hurt through a non-football incident and very likely won't be ready to play when the season begins. Because he refused the giants staff access to him in the hospital, has not reported, and has not been examined by any giants staff or doctors, the Giants can't properly determine their next course of action. JPP's telling them he will accept the tag if they agree not to place him on the NFI list is basically extortion. The problem with that is the Giants have more leverage than he does at this point.
This is as cut and dry as JPP simply trying to get as much money as he can. This is about him knowingly deceiving the giants and withholding information and trying to get them to bend the rules. He is hurt through a non-football incident and very likely won't be ready to play when the season begins. Because he refused the giants staff access to him in the hospital, has not reported, and has not been examined by any giants staff or doctors, the Giants can't properly determine their next course of action. JPP's telling them he will accept the tag if they agree not to place him on the NFI list is basically extortion. The problem with that is the Giants have more leverage than he does at this point.
"extortion"? Grow up. It's called "bargaining."
If you mention the word extortion again, I'll have your legs broken. - Mayor Carmine di Pasto
it really isn't very effective when the employer holds the cards here.
The bottom line is that JPP's strategy changed as a result of the accident. While he could have possibly been offered and/or signed a long-term deal or at least have signed the tender for 2015, because of the injury, he basically went into a CYA mode, barred the team from helping him (which the Giants most likely would have done given their past efforts in helping out injured guys with their team of respected doctors), and painted himself into a corner.
In terms of bargaining, it hasn't worked out too well since the team can do nothing and not suffer. The way he has gone about it you can look at as bargaining, but it has been both ineffective and amateurish.
This is as cut and dry as JPP simply trying to get as much money as he can. This is about him knowingly deceiving the giants and withholding information and trying to get them to bend the rules. He is hurt through a non-football incident and very likely won't be ready to play when the season begins. Because he refused the giants staff access to him in the hospital, has not reported, and has not been examined by any giants staff or doctors, the Giants can't properly determine their next course of action. JPP's telling them he will accept the tag if they agree not to place him on the NFI list is basically extortion. The problem with that is the Giants have more leverage than he does at this point.
"extortion"? Grow up. It's called "bargaining."
Homer - JPP has not been using normal bargaining/negotiating tactics. He has been overly aggressive and delusional. Yes, I would equate what he is doing to low level extortion.
about the way JPP and his "agent" handled the situation with the Giants who went down to the hospital to see him . Its about time JPP was made to understand who is really on his side in this and not like his agent who is only in it for what he can get out of JPP.
I'm wondering if they'll be able to procure a trade for him, if that winds up being in the team's best interests in the end. If so, I'd like to see some asset management skill being employed.
It costs the Giants absolutely nothing to hold onto JPP until they examine the hand. They gain nothing by withdrawing the tender immediately. Quite frankly, those calling for that sound really stupid. The Giants gain nothing AT THIS CURRENT moment from doing that.
Why would you potentially give up on a rare commodity, a pass rushing defensive end when it costs you effectively nothing to hold onto it right now. As Eric mentioned, what happens if he's fine by October and could be good as new next year?
If his hand is screwed, they can cut bait, whenever that time comes after examining it with no cost.
So for those worrying about the cap money being rolled over, that is still in play AFTER they see the hand.
Those worried about a distraction, Coughlin will shut that down real quick with the media.
Upside: Old JPP
Downside: NOTHING
Simple Risk-Reward in play here
When his finger grows back............
;-)
Quote:
October?
When his finger grows back............
;-)
That sounds about right
Before the incident it sounded like he was a popular guy in his neighborhood, a handful of his neighbors were tweeting about him. Does he live like an agoraphobe now behind the veil of drawn curtains?
He's not ready to play football I would think. Wouldn't surprise me if despite his being a professional, he's not ready to focus mentally on much but regaining his own health.
We're not losing much not having him in camp. Bigger distraction to the fans I think who perceive the team as a sum of its incremental elements than to the team who prepare to play and are conditioned to take advantage of opportunities.
Meanwhile as many have pointed out Giants hold all the cards and he's making nothing until under contract and healthy.
At this point you count him out. If he can play and contribute positivily this year he'll be worth whatever pro-rated portion of his $14.8mm tender that he earns. After that the team still gets to decide whether they want to be involved in the bidding for JPP's services going forward.
If he flames out the Giants will have at least given him the opportunity to win his severance package. Even if he sits out the maximum 10 weeks specified by the CBA, he'll still earn $5+ million from the Giants this year. That should be enough money for a guy in his 20's to finance a walk away from pro football and consider a new career.
But the Giants can't see the future and don't need to. Patience is the call.
At this point, it still looks like they're trying to bluff the team into guaranteeing as much money as possible, which in itself is a bad sign for his hand/prognosis, at least in terms of being able to play in 2015.
and if Big Jawn had patience, he wouldn't be out giving interviews saying what he is saying. He's trying to force this issue through the newspapers.
If people are finding fault with ownership here, my guess is they would find fault with ownership on anything.
JPP is the best available DE unless you count the guy that just got released....
JPP has F'd himself and NYG brass can be hard or soft as they please without any PR backlash and soft as this point only gives them goodwill among all future FAs...
If people are finding fault with ownership here, my guess is they would find fault with ownership on anything.
There is a lot of money on the table, and I don't fault the team for trying to part with as little of it as possible - but I, unlike many here, don't fault the player for trying to get as much of it as possible either.
To that end, though, even if they do release him, I honestly don't see anyone guaranteeing him anywhere near the $14.8M. As Eric says, a team or two may pay him nice chunk of money and it may even be more than he would earn once coming off the NFI list. But, nobody is guaranteeing him a full salary, especially sight unseen. There is no reason for the Giants to simply relinquish control to his rights.
They might already be looking at alternate options on how to spend some of his cap hit - bringing Jake Long in for another look is one of them, IMO.
I would love to see the reactions around here if a BBI'r posted "I got into an accident and my employer wants to examine me and provide all my medical records so they can decide whether to keep me as an employee. Should I be a "team" player and let them have everything or should I play my cards close to my vest? Oh, btw, there is $15 million at stake."
Quote:
This is as cut and dry as JPP simply trying to get as much money as he can. This is about him knowingly deceiving the giants and withholding information and trying to get them to bend the rules. He is hurt through a non-football incident and very likely won't be ready to play when the season begins. Because he refused the giants staff access to him in the hospital, has not reported, and has not been examined by any giants staff or doctors, the Giants can't properly determine their next course of action. JPP's telling them he will accept the tag if they agree not to place him on the NFI list is basically extortion. The problem with that is the Giants have more leverage than he does at this point.
"extortion"? Grow up. It's called "bargaining."
If you mention the word extortion again, I'll have your legs broken. - Mayor Carmine di Pasto
The bottom line is that JPP's strategy changed as a result of the accident. While he could have possibly been offered and/or signed a long-term deal or at least have signed the tender for 2015, because of the injury, he basically went into a CYA mode, barred the team from helping him (which the Giants most likely would have done given their past efforts in helping out injured guys with their team of respected doctors), and painted himself into a corner.
In terms of bargaining, it hasn't worked out too well since the team can do nothing and not suffer. The way he has gone about it you can look at as bargaining, but it has been both ineffective and amateurish.
Quote:
This is as cut and dry as JPP simply trying to get as much money as he can. This is about him knowingly deceiving the giants and withholding information and trying to get them to bend the rules. He is hurt through a non-football incident and very likely won't be ready to play when the season begins. Because he refused the giants staff access to him in the hospital, has not reported, and has not been examined by any giants staff or doctors, the Giants can't properly determine their next course of action. JPP's telling them he will accept the tag if they agree not to place him on the NFI list is basically extortion. The problem with that is the Giants have more leverage than he does at this point.
"extortion"? Grow up. It's called "bargaining."