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NFT: Story of a Minnesota dentist, who killed a popular lion

RC02XX : 7/28/2015 7:47 pm
Let me start off by first stating that I am not at all opposed to hunting and both a way of life and sport. However, there are times when big game hunting by rich tourists become sadistic. Yes, I understand that these tourism hunting do help with keeping these conservatories funded, but often these animals are older animals, who are more burden than good in the wild. This latest story of the illegal hunting, beheading, and skinning of a well known lion named Cecil isn't one of those stories.

As the latest updates are coming in, a Minnesota based dentist named Walter Palmer was behind the illegal hunting. While he states that he was duped by his guides, he had previously pled guilty to poaching of a black bear several years ago, so he does have a past history of poaching. Not only that, he sounds like a scumbag as he also settled on a sexual harassment suit. Obviously, we know what kind of Internet retribution can be dealt out, and it appears that this asshole is getting some much deserved loving from the Internet.

The truly sad thing is that the death of this pride leader lion may lead to the death of several (maybe even up to a dozen from some reports) cubs as a new alpha male will kill off all of Cecil's cubs. Ugh.

Quote:
A big-game hunter from the Twin Cities acknowledged Tuesday that he killed a beloved lion in Zimbabwe with a bow and arrow, but said he regrets what he did and believed that his guides were leading him on a legal hunt.

Walter J. Palmer, 55, of Eden Prairie, a practicing dentist in Bloomington, issued a statement addressing the killing on July 1 of Cecil, which has sparked outrage around the globe.

“I hired several professional guides, and they secured all proper permits,” the statement read. “To my knowledge, everything about this trip was legal and properly handled and conducted.

“I had no idea that the lion I took was a known, local favorite, was collared and part of a study until the end of the hunt. I relied on the expertise of my local professional guides to ensure a legal hunt.”

Palmer, who has on his record a conviction for poaching a bear in Wisconsin several years ago, said he has not been contacted by any authorities in Zimbabwe or the U.S. about his killing the lion, but added he will cooperate with investigators. The public relations firm that worked with Palmer on the statement said he was in the Twin Cities on Tuesday.

Link - ( New Window )
Shortly after he promised to cooperate  
mattlawson : 7/28/2015 7:56 pm : link
He had his assistant destroy his phone.
I hope he does get charged  
buford : 7/28/2015 7:57 pm : link
I am not buying that he didn't know it was illegal. It's disgusting and horrible.
RE: Shortly after he promised to cooperate  
MOOPS : 7/28/2015 8:16 pm : link
In comment 12390031 mattlawson said:
Quote:
He had his assistant destroy his phone.


I think he's looking at a four safari suspension minimum.
He hired a public relations firm to help him make a statement  
gtt350 : 7/28/2015 8:16 pm : link
pretty much says it all
It's like everyone on social media  
AnyoneButPhilly : 7/28/2015 8:20 pm : link
All of the sudden stopped giving a crap about the Confederate flag and now everyone is pretending to he outraged by this guy. The internet has the attention span of a 7 year old
.  
steve in ky : 7/28/2015 8:24 pm : link
Any true outdoorsman hates poaching. If in fact it is true that he has already been convicted of poaching he has proven he has no respect for the laws that protect animals or the animals themselves.

If it weren't for that fact I would tend to give him the benefit of the doubt that the guides took advantage of him for his $50000 and that he did believe it was all legal. His previous actions makes me believe he would do this knowingly if he believed he could get away with it.
RE: Shortly after he promised to cooperate  
schabadoo : 7/28/2015 8:34 pm : link
In comment 12390031 mattlawson said:
Quote:
He had his assistant destroy his phone.


They tried to destroy the monitoring collar, so pretty similar. Maybe closer to Hernandez destroying his home video system.

He shot this thing and then it wandered for 40 hours before they shot it. That's brutal.
Fuck him  
Bill in UT : 7/28/2015 8:43 pm : link
Dentists are all assholes. I hate killing animals for sport.
RE: It's like everyone on social media  
Wuphat : 7/28/2015 8:52 pm : link
In comment 12390081 AnyoneButPhilly said:
Quote:
All of the sudden stopped giving a crap about the Confederate flag and now everyone is pretending to he outraged by this guy. The internet has the attention span of a 7 year old


Well, SC took it down, so there's not really much to protest there anymore.

It was really never about individuals owning or displaying the flag, but rather ostensible government endorsement that was the issue.

He's not "hunting" anything  
B in ALB : 7/28/2015 8:56 pm : link
He's hiring locals who are gouging his ignorant bitch ass to put him in a position to easily spike a defenseless animal outside it's protected habitat.

This guy and those like him are chicken hawk coward pieces of shit.

I hope his dental business goes straight in the shitter.
you have to be a shitty person to be a dentist, though.  
BrettNYG10 : 7/28/2015 8:58 pm : link
.
RE: RE: It's like everyone on social media  
AnyoneButPhilly : 7/28/2015 9:06 pm : link
In comment 12390171 Wuphat said:
Quote:
In comment 12390081 AnyoneButPhilly said:


Quote:


All of the sudden stopped giving a crap about the Confederate flag and now everyone is pretending to he outraged by this guy. The internet has the attention span of a 7 year old



Well, SC took it down, so there's not really much to protest there anymore.

It was really never about individuals owning or displaying the flag, but rather ostensible government endorsement that was the issue.


Isn't it still part of Mississippi's state flag?
It is  
Wuphat : 7/28/2015 9:11 pm : link
But I think people recognize that it will take much more time to effect change in that case.

Fuck this guy. This pisses me off.  
drkenneth : 7/28/2015 9:31 pm : link
Guy deserves everything he gets.
F him  
spike : 7/28/2015 9:39 pm : link
drop him off inside the lions cage
Dr. Palmer, how do you feel about this?  
manh george : 7/28/2015 9:42 pm : link
"People are beginning to nickname you "Lunch."
Now this dickless fuck  
B in ALB : 7/28/2015 11:09 pm : link
regrets killing the lion but still takes no responsibility. Instead he blames the local guides.

Hey, pussy. Fuck you.
Link - ( New Window )
Hunting for sport  
Knineteen : 7/28/2015 11:56 pm : link
is such a pathetic act.

Hooray, you shot an animal, at a distance, with technology!
This.  
GruningsOnTheHill : 7/29/2015 5:10 am : link
Quote:
Hunting for sport
Knineteen : 7/28/2015 11:56 pm : link : reply
is such a pathetic act.

Hooray, you shot an animal, at a distance, with technology!


+1 on this.
RE: It's like everyone on social media  
Randy in CT : 7/29/2015 7:21 am : link
In comment 12390081 AnyoneButPhilly said:
Quote:
All of the sudden stopped giving a crap about the Confederate flag and now everyone is pretending to he outraged by this guy. The internet has the attention span of a 7 year old
People can be upset at a variety of things simultaneously.
RE: Hunting for sport  
BrettNYG10 : 7/29/2015 7:24 am : link
In comment 12390547 Knineteen said:
Quote:
is such a pathetic act.

Hooray, you shot an animal, at a distance, with technology!


Agreed.
I heard the lion had terrorist ties to ISIS...  
BamaBlue : 7/29/2015 7:44 am : link
sounds like he got what he deserved. Scumbag lion.
I'm not a fan of most of these life ruining crusades...  
Dunedin81 : 7/29/2015 8:22 am : link
But fuck this guy. I hope they extradite him and he spends the rest of his life in an African prison.
I'm in Eden Prairie right now  
markky : 7/29/2015 8:25 am : link
hard to believe someone would have to fly from here to Africa to go hunting.
Jesus..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/29/2015 8:34 am : link
he could have saved thousands of dollars just by going to Milwaukee.
RE: Shortly after he promised to cooperate  
I Love Clams Casino : 7/29/2015 8:37 am : link
In comment 12390031 mattlawson said:
Quote:
He had his assistant destroy his phone.


Yew, yew...I see what you did there, yew

I can't even begin to put my disgust in words about this  
Giants4246 : 7/29/2015 8:38 am : link
This guy is a vile piece of shit, i hope he gets hit by a bus today. People are flooding his facebook page and the yelp page for his dental practice with nasty comments and he deserves every last bit of it.
I'm not going to chime in  
Headhunter : 7/29/2015 8:42 am : link
because I was told it was wrong and hypocritical to wish ill on people
Great idea...  
BamaBlue : 7/29/2015 8:48 am : link
In comment 12390703 Headhunter said:
Quote:
RE: I'm not going to chime inbecause I was told it was wrong and hypocritical to wish ill on people


It comes across as disingenuous when you start a thread about someone saying something stupid, then wish they would be hit by a bus. Stupid + Stupid = Hypocritical
Not going there  
Headhunter : 7/29/2015 8:51 am : link
carry on guys
RE: RE: Hunting for sport  
Moondawg : 7/29/2015 9:57 am : link
In comment 12390599 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
In comment 12390547 Knineteen said:


Quote:


is such a pathetic act.

Hooray, you shot an animal, at a distance, with technology!



Agreed.


Largely agree.
As someone who has never hunted, and used to fish but doesn't  
Greg from LI : 7/29/2015 10:04 am : link
anymore, I find it curious how we pick and choose which circumstances are acceptable for killing animals. Some people have no issue with hunting in general but are angered by stories like this. Other people hate all hunting, but don't have a problem with fishing. Still others might deplore both hunting and fishing, but continually buy and eat meat from commercially slaughtered animals.

I'm not making a value judgment here. The logic of it all just seems really weird to me.
I have nothing against hunting  
RiffRaff : 7/29/2015 10:11 am : link
if you consume the animal like Dear Hunting. But hunting other game like Lions or Giraffes for the only reason to kill it for sport is disgusting and pathetic. This asshole dentist is getting exactly what he deserves.
RE: As someone who has never hunted, and used to fish but doesn't  
BrettNYG10 : 7/29/2015 10:13 am : link
In comment 12390877 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
anymore, I find it curious how we pick and choose which circumstances are acceptable for killing animals. Some people have no issue with hunting in general but are angered by stories like this. Other people hate all hunting, but don't have a problem with fishing. Still others might deplore both hunting and fishing, but continually buy and eat meat from commercially slaughtered animals.

I'm not making a value judgment here. The logic of it all just seems really weird to me.


Don't have an issue killing what you eat. Not for me, but it'd be inconsistent of me to criticize as a meat-eater.

Killing animals strictly for sport is creepy IMO.
eh....the animal is dead either way  
Greg from LI : 7/29/2015 10:14 am : link
.
RE: As someone who has never hunted, and used to fish but doesn't  
steve in ky : 7/29/2015 10:18 am : link
In comment 12390877 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
anymore, I find it curious how we pick and choose which circumstances are acceptable for killing animals. Some people have no issue with hunting in general but are angered by stories like this. Other people hate all hunting, but don't have a problem with fishing. Still others might deplore both hunting and fishing, but continually buy and eat meat from commercially slaughtered animals.

I'm not making a value judgment here. The logic of it all just seems really weird to me.


I agree to this point; unless someone chooses not to eat any meat and wear any leather it is hypocritical to judge others who legally hunt or fish.

I have no problem with those who wish to hunt or fish legally or those who choose not to but everyone should keep in mind that in many states the conservation departments budgets are largely funded by the sportsman who do hunt and fish from the fees generated from them. I know in Kentucky the Fish and Wildlife department is solely funded by this and as a result animal life has flourished even including the reintroduction of species to the state that had previously long disappeared. It is largely the sportsman who support the welfare of the wildlife.

Poaching is another thing entirely and most sportsman look opon that with disgust.




RE: Great idea...  
Wuphat : 7/29/2015 10:22 am : link
In comment 12390722 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 12390703 Headhunter said:


Quote:


RE: I'm not going to chime inbecause I was told it was wrong and hypocritical to wish ill on people



It comes across as disingenuous when you start a thread about someone saying something stupid, then wish they would be hit by a bus. Stupid + Stupid = Hypocritical


This
This isn't hunting. This is poaching.  
drkenneth : 7/29/2015 10:37 am : link
Read the fucking story. It's a cowardly act and this guy deserves everything he gets.

I have no issues with hunting/fishing (I fish), as long as it's done responsibility. This is the farthest thing from that.
RE: eh....the animal is dead either way  
schabadoo : 7/29/2015 10:37 am : link
In comment 12390908 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
.


It was a protected animal on a refuge. May as well go to the zoo and open fire.
RE: eh....the animal is dead either way  
drkenneth : 7/29/2015 10:38 am : link
In comment 12390908 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
.


Did you read the story? Or are you just being you?
and now for the story of John Doe who killed an  
chris r : 7/29/2015 10:39 am : link
anonymous cow.
I read the story  
Greg from LI : 7/29/2015 10:42 am : link
What's the source of all the harrumphing? That they baited the lion? Maybe I'm crazy, but isn't that exactly what fishing is? Why is one so much different than the other?

Again, I'm not throwing stones at you here. I genuinely don't see what the fundamental differences are.
RE: As someone who has never hunted, and used to fish but doesn't  
Moondawg : 7/29/2015 10:43 am : link
In comment 12390877 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
anymore, I find it curious how we pick and choose which circumstances are acceptable for killing animals. Some people have no issue with hunting in general but are angered by stories like this. Other people hate all hunting, but don't have a problem with fishing. Still others might deplore both hunting and fishing, but continually buy and eat meat from commercially slaughtered animals.

I'm not making a value judgment here. The logic of it all just seems really weird to me.


Life is always sloppy and we do our best to be decent people in a challenging world. I'm a vegetarian; my general policy is not to kill or harm animals (esp, those of more sophisticated cognitive machinery) unless there is a good reason. In many cases, "because it tastes good" seems like a pretty weak reason. Killing predatory animals that are a danger to humans or to eco-systems seems like a fair reason to hunt. "Because I enjoy killing things" seems like a very weak reason.

There are some good reasons to hunt and in many cases to eat meat. But usually, imho, the reasons people give are really a matter of laziness or selfishness and don't override what I think is a basic moral obligation not to harm beings that can experience pain.
RE: RE: Great idea...  
Moondawg : 7/29/2015 10:44 am : link
In comment 12390918 Wuphat said:
Quote:
In comment 12390722 BamaBlue said:


Quote:


In comment 12390703 Headhunter said:


Quote:


RE: I'm not going to chime inbecause I was told it was wrong and hypocritical to wish ill on people



It comes across as disingenuous when you start a thread about someone saying something stupid, then wish they would be hit by a bus. Stupid + Stupid = Hypocritical



This


After a while, we just realize that there are people whose emotional need to get attention trumps the need for consistency, right?
They baited him out of a protected preserve for a trophy kill  
schabadoo : 7/29/2015 10:46 am : link
.
RE: RE: RE: Great idea...  
Wuphat : 7/29/2015 10:46 am : link
In comment 12390977 Moondawg said:
Quote:
In comment 12390918 Wuphat said:


Quote:


In comment 12390722 BamaBlue said:


Quote:


In comment 12390703 Headhunter said:


Quote:


RE: I'm not going to chime inbecause I was told it was wrong and hypocritical to wish ill on people



It comes across as disingenuous when you start a thread about someone saying something stupid, then wish they would be hit by a bus. Stupid + Stupid = Hypocritical



This



After a while, we just realize that there are people whose emotional need to get attention trumps the need for consistency, right?


I was leaning towards idiocy, but we can be generous and go that way, I guess.
Well, we are often driven to idiocy by unchecked  
Moondawg : 7/29/2015 10:47 am : link
emotional needs, so let's find harmony in our analyses.
Fair enough  
Wuphat : 7/29/2015 10:48 am : link
...
Moondawg  
Greg from LI : 7/29/2015 10:49 am : link
I understand that philosphy, and that's why I stopped fishing years ago. That went in stages - first I stopped keeping any fish I caught, only catching and releasing. But sometimes you gut-hook a fish, and it bleeds out and there's nothing you can do about that. This bothered me greatly, so I just quit fishing. Couldn't find any more enjoyment in it anymore.

But on the other hand, I'm not going to stop eating meat, hypocritical as that may be. Humans are natural omnivores and I want to eat meat. I deal with this by being as removed from the production of the meat as possible. Don't know what exactly what goes on in those places, don't want to know either. Anyway, my point was simply that, to me, it's much more of a binary question - do you kill animals, or not? Creating arbitrary boundries for such things seems irrelevent.
Hunting or slaughering animals for food  
Don in DC : 7/29/2015 10:51 am : link
is part of human nature.

Hunting and killing an animal for fun or "sport" is creepy, and is indicative of a sadistic and/or sociopathic mindset.
there must be a shitload of sociopathic cats, then  
Greg from LI : 7/29/2015 10:53 am : link
Killer whales, too
RE: Moondawg  
Moondawg : 7/29/2015 10:53 am : link
In comment 12390994 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
I understand that philosphy, and that's why I stopped fishing years ago. That went in stages - first I stopped keeping any fish I caught, only catching and releasing. But sometimes you gut-hook a fish, and it bleeds out and there's nothing you can do about that. This bothered me greatly, so I just quit fishing. Couldn't find any more enjoyment in it anymore.

But on the other hand, I'm not going to stop eating meat, hypocritical as that may be. Humans are natural omnivores and I want to eat meat. I deal with this by being as removed from the production of the meat as possible. Don't know what exactly what goes on in those places, don't want to know either. Anyway, my point was simply that, to me, it's much more of a binary question - do you kill animals, or not? Creating arbitrary boundries for such things seems irrelevent.


My point is that it's usually not a simple as a rule like that. There are various kinds of animals, and some have much less in terms of cognitive lives than others. As a rule, avoiding killing is best, but there are some reasons to do so, esp. if you actually need to to survive.

In frankness, and without spite, your omnivore argument is weak, imho. Human males are also rapists in terms of evolutionary history. The alpha male takes what he wants and the genes of the strongest are spread widely. But that doesn't make it okay for us now, does it? If you don't need to kill to be healthy or to survive, why do it? If you actually need it, that's another thing.
Why do it?  
Greg from LI : 7/29/2015 10:55 am : link
Well, because steaks and bacon are tasty, of course :)
Baited him, blinded him with lights, then shot him and didn't kill him  
oghwga : 7/29/2015 10:56 am : link
Then tracked it for forty hours and finally finished it off. Not sure why that would give you a thrill worth 50k just to hang a head on the wall. Creepy.
Plus now the Cubs will be killed and eaten.

Every deer hunter I know respects the animal and eats what he kills.

This guy's a douchey but maybe this will bring awareness and raise money.

The whole crazy death threat thing is a little out of whack.
To put it differently  
Moondawg : 7/29/2015 10:57 am : link
what is it about something that makes hurting it unnecessarily a bad thing? And do many animals have that something? I'd say that there are two things

1. a capacity to experience pain (which means we should avoid causing it if we can)

and

2. a life that it can, in some way, enjoy for itself. Animals are different from stones and chairs in this regard; there is something there that carries on its life for some purpose, even if it doesn't understand that purpose. (which means killing it unnecessarily is wrong)

What "we" are as humans is really secondary, imho.
RE: I read the story  
steve in ky : 7/29/2015 10:58 am : link
In comment 12390965 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
What's the source of all the harrumphing? That they baited the lion? Maybe I'm crazy, but isn't that exactly what fishing is? Why is one so much different than the other?

Again, I'm not throwing stones at you here. I genuinely don't see what the fundamental differences are.


legally fishing/hunting and you strictly stay within the limits set by the wildlife departments who study and monitor each species and set seasonal/daily limits and guidelines so as to best ensure the species overall best well being. Some Jethro just going out there and thumbing his nose at that just to satisfy some personal desire by illegally poaching is the antithesis of what most outdoor sportsman who greatly appreciates and respects the animal. That is before even taking consideration into poaching doesn't put money into but instead steals money from the system which helps the animals.

You're a smart guy surly you can see the difference between the two.

RE: Why do it?  
Moondawg : 7/29/2015 10:58 am : link
In comment 12391020 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Well, because steaks and bacon are tasty, of course :)


Yep. And if an alien race came to earth that was remarkably more cognitively advanced than us, I'd argue with them that morally, it would be wrong to liquidate us for protien; even our stupid lives of hugging our kids, and playing video games, and gardening, and talking about the Giants has value for us, even if in the big picture, much of it is kind of shallow.
oh man, I already know how that story goes  
Greg from LI : 7/29/2015 11:02 am : link
RE: RE: Moondawg  
Mr. Bungle : 7/29/2015 11:05 am : link
In comment 12391012 Moondawg said:
Quote:
If you actually need it, that's another thing.

Vitamin B12.
RE: RE: RE: Moondawg  
Moondawg : 7/29/2015 11:10 am : link
In comment 12391061 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
In comment 12391012 Moondawg said:


Quote:


If you actually need it, that's another thing.


Vitamin B12.


I'll stop soon, because I don't want to get preachy. Most of us don't need to eat meat to get B12. You don't need to kill an animal to eat dairy or eggs, and in any case, most of us are lucky enough to have supplements easily available. This is really more conscience-assuaging, like the "human nature" arguments imho.
I'd personally love to break this motherfuckers legs  
Giants4246 : 7/29/2015 11:12 am : link
And if i lived in minnesota i'd probably pay him a visit. It's utterly amazing he paid 50 grand for this ridiculous hunt but he probably slams the door in the girl scouts face when she's trying to sell him a box of cookies. I hope he gets charged to the fullest extent of the law and i hope his practice gets burned to the ground.
Moondog  
steve in ky : 7/29/2015 11:15 am : link
In many cases if it weren't for the financial support generated from hunters and fisherman many species populations would be in much worse shape.

RE: RE: RE: RE: Moondawg  
buford : 7/29/2015 11:17 am : link
In comment 12391085 Moondawg said:
Quote:
In comment 12391061 Mr. Bungle said:


Quote:


In comment 12391012 Moondawg said:


Quote:


If you actually need it, that's another thing.


Vitamin B12.



I'll stop soon, because I don't want to get preachy. Most of us don't need to eat meat to get B12. You don't need to kill an animal to eat dairy or eggs, and in any case, most of us are lucky enough to have supplements easily available. This is really more conscience-assuaging, like the "human nature" arguments imho.


Meat is the best source. 80% of vegetarians are low in B12, which can cause a lot of issues. But killing animals for meat is one thing, this glamor hunting is completely different.
RE: Moondog  
Moondawg : 7/29/2015 11:18 am : link
In comment 12391118 steve in ky said:
Quote:
In many cases if it weren't for the financial support generated from hunters and fisherman many species populations would be in much worse shape.


I agree, steve; above, I noted that I'm not anti-hunting as an absolute rule. And there's definitely a big difference between the guy who respects the game, and eats what he kills and the industrialized killing of the slaughterhouse.
RE: Moondog  
Moondawg : 7/29/2015 11:22 am : link
In comment 12391118 steve in ky said:
Quote:
In many cases if it weren't for the financial support generated from hunters and fisherman many species populations would be in much worse shape.


Steve, I respect you, so now attempt to give you a hard time. I'm not anti-hunting or meat eating as an absolute rule.

Here's a serious question: would you find it morally problematic if some kind of "predator" species did to us what we do as hunters of animals? They kept our species alive, and even helped it flourish, because they enjoyed hunting and killing us.

If you have moral problems with that scenario, then what's the relevant distinction?
I'm "not" attempting to give you a hard time  
Moondawg : 7/29/2015 11:22 am : link
.
RE: RE: Moondog  
steve in ky : 7/29/2015 11:23 am : link
In comment 12391137 Moondawg said:
Quote:
In comment 12391118 steve in ky said:


Quote:


In many cases if it weren't for the financial support generated from hunters and fisherman many species populations would be in much worse shape.




I agree, steve; above, I noted that I'm not anti-hunting as an absolute rule. And there's definitely a big difference between the guy who respects the game, and eats what he kills and the industrialized killing of the slaughterhouse.


Sorry I missed that one amongst the ones about aliens liquidating us for protein (grin)
RE: RE: Moondog  
steve in ky : 7/29/2015 11:35 am : link
In comment 12391155 Moondawg said:
Quote:
In comment 12391118 steve in ky said:


Quote:


In many cases if it weren't for the financial support generated from hunters and fisherman many species populations would be in much worse shape.




Steve, I respect you, so now attempt to give you a hard time. I'm not anti-hunting or meat eating as an absolute rule.

Here's a serious question: would you find it morally problematic if some kind of "predator" species did to us what we do as hunters of animals? They kept our species alive, and even helped it flourish, because they enjoyed hunting and killing us.

If you have moral problems with that scenario, then what's the relevant distinction?


I don't really believe in the threat of aliens taking over our planet over so I can't even honestly answer that.
RE: I'm  
steve in ky : 7/29/2015 11:36 am : link
In comment 12391162 Moondawg said:
Quote:
.


I know you aren't, neither am I you.
IT'S A COOKBOOK!!!!!  
buford : 7/29/2015 11:36 am : link
.
RE: RE: RE: Moondog  
Moondawg : 7/29/2015 11:39 am : link
In comment 12391218 steve in ky said:
Quote:
In comment 12391155 Moondawg said:


Quote:


In comment 12391118 steve in ky said:


Quote:


In many cases if it weren't for the financial support generated from hunters and fisherman many species populations would be in much worse shape.




Steve, I respect you, so now attempt to give you a hard time. I'm not anti-hunting or meat eating as an absolute rule.

Here's a serious question: would you find it morally problematic if some kind of "predator" species did to us what we do as hunters of animals? They kept our species alive, and even helped it flourish, because they enjoyed hunting and killing us.

If you have moral problems with that scenario, then what's the relevant distinction?



I don't really believe in the threat of aliens taking over our planet over so I can't even honestly answer that.


Steve, not the point; much of ethical reflection is about creative application of implicit rules "what if you were a woman? would you still think rape is ok?", etc. At the heart of the golden rule is the ability to put ourselves into another's shoes. This alien example was meant to put you into the shoes of an animal, as a kind of thought experiment.

But I'm done, anyway. Be well.
Me no like what he did  
Big Al : 7/29/2015 11:45 am : link
but I am just a bleeding heart liberal who watches National Geographic Wild.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Moondog  
steve in ky : 7/29/2015 11:48 am : link
In comment 12391242 Moondawg said:
Quote:
In comment 12391218 steve in ky said:


Quote:


In comment 12391155 Moondawg said:


Quote:


In comment 12391118 steve in ky said:


Quote:


In many cases if it weren't for the financial support generated from hunters and fisherman many species populations would be in much worse shape.




Steve, I respect you, so now attempt to give you a hard time. I'm not anti-hunting or meat eating as an absolute rule.

Here's a serious question: would you find it morally problematic if some kind of "predator" species did to us what we do as hunters of animals? They kept our species alive, and even helped it flourish, because they enjoyed hunting and killing us.

If you have moral problems with that scenario, then what's the relevant distinction?



I don't really believe in the threat of aliens taking over our planet over so I can't even honestly answer that.



Steve, not the point; much of ethical reflection is about creative application of implicit rules "what if you were a woman? would you still think rape is ok?", etc. At the heart of the golden rule is the ability to put ourselves into another's shoes. This alien example was meant to put you into the shoes of an animal, as a kind of thought experiment.

But I'm done, anyway. Be well.


Moondog I respect you and wasn't trying to dismiss your question, and I understood your point but in my opinion it is still isn't applicable to the relationship with man and animal on our earth. But like you suggest it's probably better leaving it alone at this point. That is getting into an entirely different discussion.
Anybody mention this yet?  
Randy in CT : 7/29/2015 12:06 pm : link
"A man by the same name and age, and from the same town, illegally killed a black bear in Wisconsin several years ago, according to court documents."
You guys suck...  
BamaBlue : 7/29/2015 12:14 pm : link
two pages and not one mention of the culpability of Donald Trup or Hillary Clinton in this Dentist v. beloved Lion tragedy. Com'on Geesh...
RE: Anybody mention this yet?  
UConn4523 : 7/29/2015 12:17 pm : link
In comment 12391332 Randy in CT said:
Quote:
"A man by the same name and age, and from the same town, illegally killed a black bear in Wisconsin several years ago, according to court documents."


Yeah and in the Kimmel clip it aslo shows the jaguar (i think) elephant, etc that he killed. I think those were "legal" though.

Fuck this guy.
RE: I read the story  
drkenneth : 7/29/2015 12:26 pm : link
In comment 12390965 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
What's the source of all the harrumphing? That they baited the lion? Maybe I'm crazy, but isn't that exactly what fishing is? Why is one so much different than the other?

Again, I'm not throwing stones at you here. I genuinely don't see what the fundamental differences are.


You can practice catch and release when fishing. You can't un-kill something you just shot.

It's night and day.
I wonder if they can relocate the cubs  
pjcas18 : 7/29/2015 12:31 pm : link
so the new alpha male doesn't kill them.
RE: I read the story  
RC02XX : 7/29/2015 12:36 pm : link
In comment 12390965 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
What's the source of all the harrumphing? That they baited the lion? Maybe I'm crazy, but isn't that exactly what fishing is? Why is one so much different than the other?

Again, I'm not throwing stones at you here. I genuinely don't see what the fundamental differences are.


The issue with regards to my OP is that this lion lived on a sanctuary where it was protected. The guides (and most likely with the knowledge of this asshole dentist) lured it out of the protected area for the sole purpose of killing a magnificent beast. So unless these fish you're speaking of are swimming in some protected sanctuary and are lured out of the area to be fished, you're comparing apples to oranges.

Also, as noted earlier, I have no problems with sanctioned big game hunting that is legal and with the agreement with the conservatory to generate budget for broader conservation efforts. This isn't one of those cases.

And really, the second order effects of this illegal hunting/poaching is that now a large number of lion cubs will be killed as a result.
if people can't see the difference  
UConn4523 : 7/29/2015 1:09 pm : link
between killing a Lion and catching a bass, then its not worth talking about.
Its like fishing at seaworld  
RonPaulsBalls : 7/29/2015 1:12 pm : link
and then hanging shamu up in your office
RE: I wonder if they can relocate the cubs  
buford : 7/29/2015 1:31 pm : link
In comment 12391399 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
so the new alpha male doesn't kill them.


I have read that the females may go into heat immediately to try to distract the new alpha (who is named Jerhico) from killing all of Cecil's cubs.
if you want to hunt for  
chuckydee9 : 7/29/2015 1:41 pm : link
sport... at least make it fair... hunt something with a knife or bare hands and I would find it impressive... hunting something with a rifle and shotguns is weak sauce..
RE: if you want to hunt for  
Moondawg : 7/29/2015 1:45 pm : link
In comment 12391620 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:
sport... at least make it fair... hunt something with a knife or bare hands and I would find it impressive... hunting something with a rifle and shotguns is weak sauce..


Or, the ultimate sport. Hunting humans.
Link - ( New Window )
.  
BeerFridge : 7/29/2015 1:53 pm : link
RE: RE: I wonder if they can relocate the cubs  
RC02XX : 7/29/2015 1:58 pm : link
In comment 12391588 buford said:
Quote:
In comment 12391399 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


so the new alpha male doesn't kill them.



I have read that the females may go into heat immediately to try to distract the new alpha (who is named Jerhico) from killing all of Cecil's cubs.


I wish this was the case, but from everything I've heard since yesterday, the females actually can't go into heat if they're nursing or are taking care of cubs. So it's not even up to the lionesses on whether they want to go into heat or not.

I'm hoping that there is a way for the conservationists to grab the cubs, but I'm not sure that they'll get involved, as it will be messing with the natural order of how these prides work.
RE: if you want to hunt for  
RB^2 : 7/29/2015 2:16 pm : link
In comment 12391620 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:
sport... at least make it fair... hunt something with a knife or bare hands and I would find it impressive... hunting something with a rifle and shotguns is weak sauce..

King Charles XII of Sweden used to do this. At one point, he even thought a knife was unfair and just used whatever sticks or rocks he found in the woods. He was kind of a bad ass that way.
These fucking  
Danny L : 7/29/2015 2:21 pm : link
poachers have no clue what kind of damage they create by killing a male Lion in his prime when he is the head of his pride.
they have doomed the cubs and in some cases even some of the Lionesses when they try to protect those cubs.

Fact is, some prides do not survive when the dominant male gets killed/poached.

We wont be happy till they is nothing left on this planet but humans.
Just hope I wont be here to see it as it's going to be a tough day.
A world without wildlife in it is not a world worth living in.
I saw a fascinating  
Big Al : 7/29/2015 2:32 pm : link
NatGeo Wild show where a female lion saw a takeover imminent and left the pride taking some of the cubs including some not her own.. It was real rough for awhile avoiding male lions but the female lion was able to get the cubs through until they were old enough to be in their own. The female then rejoined the pride. Probably a rare occurrence.
I hate animals  
TheBigBlueOne : 7/29/2015 2:34 pm : link
but, I've always wanted to be part of a pitchfork and torch wielding mob.
Wow this guy is getting his livelihood torn apart  
RB^2 : 7/29/2015 2:46 pm : link
I can't say I have a ton of sympathy for him but damn, if you get on the internet's bad side, it's merciless. I'm not sure if I'm such a huge fan of this kind of vigilante justice. It's playing with fire, IMO.
RE: Wow this guy is getting his livelihood torn apart  
Greg from LI : 7/29/2015 2:48 pm : link
In comment 12391769 RB^2 said:
Quote:
I can't say I have a ton of sympathy for him but damn, if you get on the internet's bad side, it's merciless. I'm not sure if I'm such a huge fan of this kind of vigilante justice. It's playing with fire, IMO.


Yup. These are very dark roads to travel down.
The internet is  
B in ALB : 7/29/2015 2:50 pm : link
the judge, jury and in this case - the executioner of this guy. Pretty amazing.
RE: Wow this guy is getting his livelihood torn apart  
RC02XX : 7/29/2015 2:52 pm : link
In comment 12391769 RB^2 said:
Quote:
I can't say I have a ton of sympathy for him but damn, if you get on the internet's bad side, it's merciless. I'm not sure if I'm such a huge fan of this kind of vigilante justice. It's playing with fire, IMO.


There have been several threads in the past about the power of the Internet and social media having changed stupid mistakes committed by people into lasting legacies. It's definitely sad and scary.

In this case, fuck this guy. His explanation that he didn't know that the hunt wasn't legal seems bullshit based on his past incident of poaching. This guy didn't make a mistake, he consciously decided to be a sadistic fuck and make an illegal kill. He is reaping what he sowed at this point.
Greg  
RB^2 : 7/29/2015 2:52 pm : link
At some point, they'll get the wrong guy a la Richard Jewel, except back then it was with muskets, today it's with nukes.
RE: Wow this guy is getting his livelihood torn apart  
steve in ky : 7/29/2015 2:53 pm : link
In comment 12391769 RB^2 said:
Quote:
I can't say I have a ton of sympathy for him but damn, if you get on the internet's bad side, it's merciless. I'm not sure if I'm such a huge fan of this kind of vigilante justice. It's playing with fire, IMO.


I know he is getting blasted on the internet but are many of his patients actually leaving his practice? That really is the bottom line here because if most of them stay he really will just face more embarrassment than financial loss, discounting any possible charges that he may face.

It's hard to find a good dentist that you trust. I don't know if he is good or not but if his patients like him I'm not so sure too many up and leave him over this.
RE: RE: Wow this guy is getting his livelihood torn apart  
RB^2 : 7/29/2015 3:05 pm : link
In comment 12391791 steve in ky said:
Quote:

I know he is getting blasted on the internet but are many of his patients actually leaving his practice? That really is the bottom line here because if most of them stay he really will just face more embarrassment than financial loss, discounting any possible charges that he may face.

It's hard to find a good dentist that you trust. I don't know if he is good or not but if his patients like him I'm not so sure too many up and leave him over this.

Steve,
That may depend on how quickly this dies down. His patients may not want to deal with any demonstrators or media that may be camped outside his practice and may just go to a different dentist.
That's also a good point  
steve in ky : 7/29/2015 3:11 pm : link
I was just pointing out that a doctor losing patients is a little different than people not shopping at a certain store or eating at a certain restaurant. They usually have a personal connection with him and may feel more loyal than a casual customer of something else. I know with my doctor and dentist I view them as friends as well and have build a personal relationship with them over the years.

Will be interesting to see how it falls out.
everyone will forget about this in a week  
ron mexico : 7/29/2015 3:13 pm : link
his practice will be fine

I don't know about that  
UConn4523 : 7/29/2015 3:43 pm : link
when you have almost 3,000 negative reviews, you can kiss future business goodbye. Maybe his current clients stay but to say the majority will would be a stretch.
Google Reviews - ( New Window )
Somehow, I suspect people actually looking for a dentist  
Greg from LI : 7/29/2015 4:01 pm : link
will discount the one star reviews of the internet outrage brigades
RE: Somehow, I suspect people actually looking for a dentist  
RC02XX : 7/29/2015 4:10 pm : link
In comment 12392010 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
will discount the one star reviews of the internet outrage brigades


Maybe so. But when people are making decisions on numerous available dentists available, I think that a bad publicity is bad publicity, especially when it comes to stories about poaching, lying to the feds, etc. So maybe his loyal patients will stay, but others may not want to deal with someone as unscrupulous as this jackass.
No doubt  
Greg from LI : 7/29/2015 4:12 pm : link
I just don't think a bunch of bogus Yahoo reviews will have anything to do with it.
Most Yelp users  
RB^2 : 7/29/2015 4:16 pm : link
sort by rating, so having 1000+ bad reviews is a big deal because it pushes his business to the bottom of the pile.
Every new dentist I have every used I learned about from asking  
steve in ky : 7/29/2015 4:19 pm : link
someone who's judgment I trusted who they liked and used. I guess many people look online for reviews but I still prefer first hand recommendations for something like a new dentist. It's not like trying out a new restaurant for lunch.

Sure he might see some negative effects but one large postcard mailing in his area offering a free cleaning would likely get many new people giving him a try as well.
You are lying if  
UConn4523 : 7/29/2015 4:51 pm : link
you say you'd go to this guy regardless of this shit storm. Unless you live in a town with 1 or 2 dentists, why bother with a guy like this?

And people are giving 5 star reviews so their reviews are filtered to the top so even the 5 star ones are bad. His business is fucked. I see Jews pieces each month about business going under. Many of them stem from bad online riviews which slowly stall business growth. It's the world we live in now, fair or not. For this guy, it's more than fair.
Jews pieces? Wha?  
Greg from LI : 7/29/2015 4:53 pm : link
Anyway.....is he a good dentist? If he is, then I'd consider going to him regardless of all this. Too many bad dentists out there.
I won't call anybody a liar  
steve in ky : 7/29/2015 4:57 pm : link
But I think most people are fooling themselves if they all think that they would actually leave their trusted family dentist whom the like because of this. I think they would choose to give him the benefit of the doubt since they know and like him that he was a victim of sorts and was lied to and bilked out of his money by unethical guides.

Some would for sure, most likely won't.
RE: Jews pieces? Wha?  
Semipro Lineman : 7/29/2015 4:59 pm : link

plus I think there's a sizeable chunk of people who are tired of the  
Greg from LI : 7/29/2015 5:00 pm : link
internet mobs out to ruin people's livelihoods. They might not like this guy, but neither do they believe his professional practice should be reduced to shambles over this.
RE: plus I think there's a sizeable chunk of people who are tired of the  
kicker : 7/29/2015 5:17 pm : link
In comment 12392185 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
internet mobs out to ruin people's livelihoods. They might not like this guy, but neither do they believe his professional practice should be reduced to shambles over this.


I think this is the effective counterpoint to Friedman's bullshit assertion that anti-discrimination regulations are idiotic.

The bully pulpit of the internet does not wield a scalpel.
Haha Jew Pieces  
UConn4523 : 7/29/2015 5:30 pm : link
my anti Semitic auto correct showed its colors.

News pieces was what should have been said.
RE: Haha Jew Pieces  
Moondawg : 7/29/2015 5:40 pm : link
In comment 12392233 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
my anti Semitic auto correct showed its colors.

News pieces was what should have been said.


Too late. DESTROY HIM, INTERNET!
Too soon?  
BamaBlue : 7/29/2015 5:50 pm : link
RE: Too soon?  
BrettNYG10 : 7/29/2015 5:51 pm : link
In comment 12392259 BamaBlue said:
Quote:


Very offensive.
Brett...  
BamaBlue : 7/29/2015 5:54 pm : link
I was hoping for 'disgusting', but 'very offensive' -- that dog will hunt (sorry).
Disgusting.  
BrettNYG10 : 7/29/2015 6:08 pm : link
.
I believe the preferred term is  
Greg from LI : 7/29/2015 6:10 pm : link
"problematic"
Guys...  
BamaBlue : 7/29/2015 6:16 pm : link
You're looking at this situation with the wrong perspective. Don't think of it as the disgusting slaughter of one (albiet 'popular') lion... think of it as a act to provide a happy and productive life for several hundred antelope.
RE: Guys...  
RC02XX : 7/29/2015 6:50 pm : link
In comment 12392297 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
You're looking at this situation with the wrong perspective. Don't think of it as the disgusting slaughter of one (albiet 'popular') lion... think of it as a act to provide a happy and productive life for several hundred antelope.


Always looking at the brighter side of things...you make me sick!
RE: Guys...  
Big Al : 7/29/2015 7:47 pm : link
In comment 12392297 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
You're looking at this situation with the wrong perspective. Don't think of it as the disgusting slaughter of one (albiet 'popular') lion... think of it as a act to provide a happy and productive life for several hundred antelope.
Without the predators, the prey overpoplulate and eventually die of starvation
Al...  
BamaBlue : 7/29/2015 9:10 pm : link
you really disappointed me. I never would have imagined you as an Antelope hater... or are you just so pro-Dentist, you can't be objective?
I do not like when lions  
Big Al : 7/29/2015 9:24 pm : link
attack those cute warthogs.
Fuck antelope.  
BrettNYG10 : 7/29/2015 9:28 pm : link
.
Antelopes are okay, fuck giraffes.  
Shepherdsam : 7/29/2015 9:31 pm : link

Always looking down on everyone.
Now I'm definitely an  
buford : 7/29/2015 9:50 pm : link
anti-Dentite.
RE: I do not like when lions  
RC02XX : 7/29/2015 11:43 pm : link
In comment 12392741 Big Al said:
Quote:
attack those cute warthogs.


I don't know...I thought lions were friends with warthogs...

You guys may be right about his practice being in jeopardy  
steve in ky : 7/30/2015 12:41 am : link
Apparently he is laying low and is referring patents elsewhere. Something I didn't expect he would do. Once you send people away they likely aren't coming back.

I'm sorry for his employees, who may be out of jobs...  
RC02XX : 7/30/2015 1:52 am : link
But this asshole brought this shit on himself, so he has no one else to blame but himself.

And I seriously doubt that he didn't know that his kill was illegal, especially with the whole tracking device being on the lion. And with his previous history of poaching and lying to the authority, the dude is a scumbag sack if lying shit.
RE: I'm sorry for his employees, who may be out of jobs...  
BlueLou : 7/30/2015 5:25 am : link
In comment 12393135 RC02XX said:
Quote:
But this asshole brought this shit on himself, so he has no one else to blame but himself.

And I seriously doubt that he didn't know that his kill was illegal, especially with the whole tracking device being on the lion. And with his previous history of poaching and lying to the authority, the dude is a scumbag sack if lying shit.


IMO Ronnie nailed this guy.

Pardon if the attached video has already been linked.
The man who killed Cecil the lion. - ( New Window )
There have been protests outside of his practice  
buford : 7/30/2015 6:30 am : link
and he wrote this letter to his patients:

Quote:
July 28, 2015

To my valued patients:

As you may have already heard, I have been in the news over the last few days for reasons that have nothing to do with my profession or the care I provide for you. I want you to know of this situation and my involvement

In addition to spending time with my family, one of my passions outside dentistry is hunting. I’ve been a life-long hunter since I was a child growing up in North Dakota. I don’t often talk about hunting with my patients because it can be a divisive and emotionally charged topic. I understand and respect that not everyone shares the same views on hunting.

In early July, I was in Zimbabwe on a bow hunting trip for big game. I hired several professional guides and they secured all proper permits. To my knowledge, everything about this trip was legal and properly handled and conducted.

I had no idea that the lion I took was a known, local favorite, was collared and part of a study until the end of the hunt. I relied on the expertise of my local professional guides to ensure a legal hunt.

I have not been contacted by authorities in Zimbabwe or in the U.S. about this situation, but will assist them in any inquiries they may have.

Again, I deeply regret that my pursuit of an activity I love and practice responsibly and legally resulted in the taking of this lion. That was never my intention.

The media interest in this matter – along with a substantial number of comments and calls from people who are angered by this situation and by the practice of hunting in general – has disrupted our business and our ability to see our patients. For that disruption, I apologize profoundly for this inconvenience and promise you that we will do our best to resume normal operations as soon as possible. We are working to have patients with immediate needs referred to other dentists and will keep you informed of any additional developments.

On behalf of all of us at River Bluff Dental, thank you for your support.

Sincerely,

Walter J. Palmer, DDS
River Bluff Dental
I'm looking at this particular line of his letter to his patients...  
RC02XX : 7/30/2015 7:31 am : link
Quote:
I had no idea that the lion I took was a known, local favorite, was collared and part of a study until the end of the hunt. I relied on the expertise of my local professional guides to ensure a legal hunt.


I'll play along. So say that he didn't realize until after the lion had been killed that it was a protected lion due to his tracking collar. Was he ever going to come forward and admit his (and his guides') mistake? Or was he going to play the same dumb game that he played in his previous poaching expedition when not only did he move the bear carcass to make it seem like it was killed in a sanction area but also lie to federal agents about it? Was he going to ever own up to his "mistake" as he calls it if he wasn't caught? Or was he going to merely marvel at the trophy head of Cecil, as he hoped that no one would ever find out about his actions?

While I may not agree with his choice of a hobby, I won't hold it against him for his desire to kill animals with his bow and arrow as long as they are done legally and with proper precautions. However, when his latest action stinks of similar unscrupulous dishonesty/deception as his previous action with poaching the bear (which he admitted to and was punished for), it's hard to see him as anything but a scumbag, who is now contrite because he was caught and is feeling the backlash. I'm not sure that I even buy the sincerity in his apology and am not sure if he even give a shit about the second order effects of his killing, which may/will lead to the deaths of many other members of that pride. He's doing a masterful job of deflecting the blame to his local "professional" guides.

In the end, mistakes are made, but people own up to them. I doubt that this asshole would have ever owned up to his if not caught and bludgeoned by the public.
RE: RE: I do not like when lions  
Big Al : 7/30/2015 7:51 am : link
In comment 12393056 RC02XX said:
Quote:
In comment 12392741 Big Al said:


Quote:


attack those cute warthogs.



I don't know...I thought lions were friends with warthogs...

Cats sometimes like to play with their lunch.
Ronnie, somewhere I read that a warrant for Dr. Palmer's arrest  
BlueLou : 7/30/2015 7:55 am : link
has been issued in Zimbabwe. So if this dentist isn't a lying sack of donkey dung you think he'd go back to testify against the "professional guides" who set him up to poach, right?


Odds of that happening?
RE: Ronnie, somewhere I read that a warrant for Dr. Palmer's arrest  
RC02XX : 7/30/2015 8:02 am : link
In comment 12393187 BlueLou said:
Quote:
has been issued in Zimbabwe. So if this dentist isn't a lying sack of donkey dung you think he'd go back to testify against the "professional guides" who set him up to poach, right?


Odds of that happening?


We'll see. I'm sure if given an immunity and a hefty fine, he will cooperate. Otherwise, I doubt that he will put himself in a position to get potential jail time in Zimbabwe, no matter what he says now.
I am not a fan of trophy hunting and I don't like what this guy did  
oghwga : 7/30/2015 9:05 am : link
but the outrage is a little much. The president of PETA said publicly that this guy should be hanged. Hanged.

He is getting death threats and his family is in hiding.

A tad bit of an overreaction.
I doubt very many people would voluntarily return to Africa without  
steve in ky : 7/30/2015 9:05 am : link
some assurance of immunity. Can't really come down hard on him for that.
RE: I am not a fan of trophy hunting and I don't like what this guy did  
steve in ky : 7/30/2015 9:08 am : link
In comment 12393258 oghwga said:
Quote:
but the outrage is a little much. The president of PETA said publicly that this guy should be hanged. Hanged.

He is getting death threats and his family is in hiding.

A tad bit of an overreaction.


I can never understand how so easily some people wish death on another person. Pathetic
the death threats  
UConn4523 : 7/30/2015 9:22 am : link
are ridiculous, but his business going under would be justified.
RE: I am not a fan of trophy hunting and I don't like what this guy did  
RC02XX : 7/30/2015 11:16 am : link
In comment 12393258 oghwga said:
Quote:
but the outrage is a little much. The president of PETA said publicly that this guy should be hanged. Hanged.

He is getting death threats and his family is in hiding.

A tad bit of an overreaction.


Agree. The whole death threat thing in this Internet age is pretty dumb, especially when it's posted by people using their personal facebook and twitter accounts. Don't these people know that they aren't anonymous when they make these idiotic threats?
Knowing how Dr. Palmer uses his money...  
Big Blue Blogger : 7/30/2015 11:38 am : link
...I would find it difficult to justify patronizing his business and funding his hobbies. On the other hand, most of his patients probably knew he was an avid hunter, so maybe they will rally around him. Time will tell.

My impression from past conversations with hunters is that thrill-seeking Ernest Hemingway/Teddy Roosevelt-wannabe tourists like Dr. Palmer are not very well regarded.
BBB  
manh george : 7/30/2015 12:02 pm : link
I am confident that the large proportion of his practice that consisted of families never gave that muc h thought to his tendency to be really brave against defenseless animals.

Btw, one of the likely tragedies here is the strong likelihood that the new alpha male, who is already known, will kill all existing cubs in the pride, based upon an instinctual tendency to maintain his own gene pool. Several articles have noted that the females with cubs will now immediately go into heat in an attempt to distract him, but it doesn't usually work. I am confident that if this occurs, it will be tracked, and the blame laid at the dentist's door. Contempt for him would then spike again.
Steve in Ky made some great points earlier in the thread...  
Big Blue Blogger : 7/30/2015 12:24 pm : link
...regarding the important role that hunting revenue plays in wildlife conservation efforts. The Zimbabwean authorities have stressed this aspect too - probably hoping that negative publicity from this case won't shut down their income stream.

The question is a tricky one. I think most of us would agree that it's fine for Wyoming to sell fishing licenses to fund efforts to protect endangered species. And most are repulsed by Zimbabwe selling licenses and quotas to tour operators that allow them to bait lions out of their protected habitats to be shot by rich tourists. Even if we believe that the money is needed for conservation efforts, and is being used that way, the repugnance remains. So where do you draw the line?

One surprising aspect of the Palmer case is how incredibly close his hunt was to being legal.
I think  
Big Al : 7/30/2015 12:35 pm : link
an analysis needs to be made of when you need to kill them to save them. Actually true sometimes but not always.
'What lion?' Zimbabweans ask, amid global Cecil circus  
ron mexico : 7/30/2015 4:28 pm : link
"What lion?" acting information minister Prisca Mupfumira asked in response to a request for comment about Cecil, who was at that moment topping global news bulletins and generating reams of abuse for his killer on websites in the United States and Europe.

"Are you saying that all this noise is about a dead lion? Lions are killed all the time in this country," said Tryphina Kaseke, a used-clothes hawker on the streets of Harare. "What is so special about this one?"

"Why are the Americans more concerned than us?" said Joseph Mabuwa, a 33-year-old father-of-two cleaning his car in the center of the capital. "We never hear them speak out when villagers are killed by lions and elephants in Hwange."
Link - ( New Window )
Eh...  
RC02XX : 7/30/2015 6:56 pm : link
I'm sure if you ask most of them whether conservation of wild animals is important, many will say it isn't all that important as I'm sure they're more concerned about making a living in what is still a third world nation. Seems pretty irrelevant what many of those people think.
Take this for what it's worth...  
RC02XX : 7/31/2015 7:41 am : link
May be the truth, half truth, or a lie...no matter, even if Palmer only found out after the lion was killed, he still proceeded to carry on without any remorse and got his trophy. Then went on ahead and asked to be set up with even a larger trophy. Definitely seems like a guy showing contrition and plenty of integrity.

Quote:
“Once we were established, and it was quiet, we first saw a lioness go past. And then a huge male – Cecil – came into view behind her. He was a magnificent animal.

“The client then fired using a bow and arrow, and it went away into the long grass. This was about 10 pm.”

Mr Bronkhorst said he had a sense that the lion was hit, but could not be sure.

“Bow and arrow wounds are different to gun wounds, and they don’t show much. But we couldn’t do anything that night.”

The four men went home for the night before returning to search for Cecil at dawn the next day.

“I was worried about the lion and what had happened,” said Mr Bronkhorst.

“We got there about 9am, and we found it and it was wounded, and the client then shot it, with his bow and arrow, and killed it.”

It was then the hunters went over to it, and saw it had a collar.

“I was devastated,” said Mr Bronkhorst, who immediately saw that he had killed a protected lion.

“I could not have seen the collar at night. We would never shoot a collared animal. I was devastated, and so was the client, we were both upset, and I panicked and took it off and put it in a tree.

“I should have taken it to Parks [the Zimbabwe Parks and Wildlfe Management Authority], I admit that. So we did what had to be done. We took the head and skin, as the client had paid for the trophy.

“I went to Parks and reported what had happened. I wish I had taken the collar.

“We then went back to my place near Hwange. The client asked if we would find him an elephant larger than 63 pounds, [the weight of one tusk] which is a very large elephant, but I told him I would not be able to find one so big, so the client left the next day and went to Bulawayo for the night and then flew out [to Johannesburg] midday the following day.

Link - ( New Window )
He was so devastated and distraught over what he had done  
montanagiant : 7/31/2015 8:28 am : link
That the only way to fix it was to go kill an elephant for its tusk
Just read on facebook that Cecil's brother, Jericho,  
732NYG : 8/1/2015 3:56 pm : link
who had stepped in as the new alpha and was protecting Cecil's cubs, has been killed by a poacher. People are shit.
Link to article on Jericho being poached  
Steve in South Jersey : 8/1/2015 4:07 pm : link
.

Link - ( New Window )
Quite a few are denying his brother was killed  
montanagiant : 8/1/2015 4:23 pm : link
Quote:
Brent Stapelkamp, a field researcher for the Hwange Lion Research Project monitoring Jericho’s GPS tag, told Reuters that he doesn’t think the lion is dead. “He looks alive and well to me as far as I can tell,” Stapelkamp said.


Also this asshole claimed in a statement that he would cooperate fully with authorities if asked to. Only problem is that the dickhead has disappeared now:
Quote:
Investigators for the service have knocked on the front door of Palmer’s house, stopped by his dental office, called his telephone numbers and filled his inbox with e-mails.

“I’m sure he knows” the government is looking for him, Ed Grace, chief of law enforcement for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, told The Washington Post on Thursday. “We’ve made repeated attempts to try and get in contact with him.”
The news of the death of Jerhico  
buford : 8/1/2015 5:37 pm : link
is not true.
Link - ( New Window )
Zimbabwe Seeks Extradition of U.S. Hunter  
Steve in South Jersey : 8/1/2015 5:54 pm : link
Quote:
African nation’s government said it would ask U.S. authorities to extradite the American dentist who killed Zimbabwe’s most famous lion, saying Walter Palmer needs to stand trial for violating national hunting laws.



Link - ( New Window )
.  
steve in ky : 8/1/2015 7:14 pm : link
Now I've heard it all
Animal psychic says she has talked to Cecil, and the dead lion has a lot to say - ( New Window )
Psychic cays that Cecil...  
manh george : 8/1/2015 7:19 pm : link
was the reincarnation of Roary Calhoun.
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