everyone is healthy, everyone is completely back to pre surgery strength and command. I don't know, I go back and forth on all 5 of them. They each
can make a case for being the best on this staff. Who has the highest ceiling?
guess I'd still have Harvey #1 but hard to say if he's ever as good as what he was before surgery. Not saying he won't be but who knows? Right now deGrom is an ace, hard to project anyone being better than that.
I'd like to see Wheeler's command with a pain free arm
debate to have. I think the team is now poised to go on a run. Getting to 10 games over .500 should be attainable. They have the easiest schedule for the remainder of the year than any other team in MLB.
RE: I'd like to see Wheeler's command with a pain free arm
might be he never would of had great command, but I want to see for myself
Wheeler wasn't hurt his entire pro career. His command has never been even average. He's 26 in May, his command is extremely unlikely to suddenly be much better.
where every pitch out of his hand was spotted exactly where he wanted. I'm sorry but I don't believe he has pitched pain free in years. We shall see soon enough
where every pitch out of his hand was spotted exactly where he wanted. I'm sorry but I don't believe he has pitched pain free in years. We shall see soon enough
So he's pitched with a bum elbow for 5 years? I'm not buying that sorry.
post TJ and Ula nerve surgery and still doesn't have command, I'll concede that he will never have the command necessary to dominate. But I'll make that judgement by watching not reading.
I wouldn't trade Herrera for a rental. He's our future at 2B.
post TJ and Ula nerve surgery and still doesn't have command, I'll concede that he will never have the command necessary to dominate. But I'll make that judgement by watching not reading.
Is there precedent for TJ surgery improving a guy's control?
Bruce, reduce the price by taking back Phillips as part of the deal. The more I think about it, the price for Reddick would likely be silly if Beane got that for Zobrist and Clippard.
Nimmo, Cessa and a 3rd piece for Bruce and Phillips do it
RE: I would only move Herrera for non-rental players
was pulled early last night. Haven't seen any update ala injury, rest, trade etc. I'd deal Herrera for Reddick if he's the big piece. Reddick is exactly what the doctor ordered (without giving up one of the pitchers). Huge personality, players hard, top 10 RF in almost every category and good salary.
has been worth 4.5, 2.8, 2.5 and now 2.5 WAR again the past 4 seasons, above average base runner. ZIPS is projecting him to finish with 3.6 WAR this season which would add 1.1 wins to the Mets over their LF situation. 1.1 wins could easily make the difference. The 2 trades they made so far are projected to add .5 (they likely lost a small % of that to losing Mejia).
But adding a RF means what for Granderson/Conforto?
Either Conforto has to go back down or Granderson has to go to CF. I'm not exactly enamored with either option. Both of those things kind of subtract from the addition.
was pulled early last night. Haven't seen any update ala injury, rest, trade etc. I'd deal Herrera for Reddick if he's the big piece. Reddick is exactly what the doctor ordered (without giving up one of the pitchers). Huge personality, players hard, top 10 RF in almost every category and good salary.
Beccerra pulled too. wasn't he? Looked like it from the box score.
RE: But adding a RF means what for Granderson/Conforto?
Either Conforto has to go back down or Granderson has to go to CF. I'm not exactly enamored with either option. Both of those things kind of subtract from the addition.
Reddick has experience in CF and LF. If we are limited to CF only then we likely aren't adding a bat at all. Parra's CF defense also has horrendous marks the past 2 seasons so given his price I'm not sure his position even helps
change up and Warthen Slider. He is able to go from pitching backwards the first time through the lineup( breaking ball putting them away with a fastball) then reverse it the next time through the lineup and keep the hitters totally off balanced
was pulled early last night. Haven't seen any update ala injury, rest, trade etc. I'd deal Herrera for Reddick if he's the big piece. Reddick is exactly what the doctor ordered (without giving up one of the pitchers). Huge personality, players hard, top 10 RF in almost every category and good salary.
Beccerra pulled too. wasn't he? Looked like it from the box score.
Yup he was pulled early too. Herrera and Becerra for a Bruce or Gomez i'd be fine with. For a rental I'd absolutely puke.
Clearly the Mets aren't operating that way if they've spoken to CIN about Bruce. I just wouldn't be thrilled about either sending Conforto back or having to put someone out of position in CF.
The defensive grading on Parra doesn't really sway me. I put close to zero stock in that stuff. I have a hard time believing a GG OFer would suddenly be a disaster just 2 years later at age 28.
I dont know who has the best ceiling. Harvey, deGrom, and Thor all have cy young ability. Matz and Wheeler have the arms for it at least.
Im going to be sad as shit if 2013 was peak Harvey. Im really counting on him to be an ace next season. But I'm also counting on a carousel where one of these kids is always down with TJS.
Clearly the Mets aren't operating that way if they've spoken to CIN about Bruce. I just wouldn't be thrilled about either sending Conforto back or having to put someone out of position in CF.
The defensive grading on Parra doesn't really sway me. I put close to zero stock in that stuff. I have a hard time believing a GG OFer would suddenly be a disaster just 2 years later at age 28.
But Parra is a rental with a very high price which you just said you didn't want. Which CF is a non-rental that will cost anything less than top guys that also represents a clear upgrade? Horrendous will Venable? It's Gomez or bust basically by your rules. Parra has had a great season and tons of teams are in. I'm not giving up 2 big prospects (or even 1 TOP) guy for .5 of Parra. Seems very silly to me. They already turned down Meisner for him, Law had Meisner as the Mets #6 prospect. I'm not huge on Nimmo but Nimmo+ for half a year of Parra would be disappointing
Thor - as others have mentioned, he is younger and no arm issues.
Matz is interesting, and it is a big if, long term health wise, offers something even harder to find - power starting lefty. there are just so few in the league
Right now, Harvey is 3rd on the team
Wheeler clearly has the arm, but until the control issues get corrected, he is going to expend too much energy and deal with too many runners. Him at no 5 however is ridiculous
Thor - as others have mentioned, he is younger and no arm issues.
Matz is interesting, and it is a big if, long term health wise, offers something even harder to find - power starting lefty. there are just so few in the league
Right now, Harvey is 3rd on the team
Wheeler clearly has the arm, but until the control issues get corrected, he is going to expend too much energy and deal with too many runners. Him at no 5 however is ridiculous
What? How would me ranking Wheeler 5th be "ridiculous" given what you just said? Who would be 5th then?
Clearly the Mets aren't operating that way if they've spoken to CIN about Bruce. I just wouldn't be thrilled about either sending Conforto back or having to put someone out of position in CF.
The defensive grading on Parra doesn't really sway me. I put close to zero stock in that stuff. I have a hard time believing a GG OFer would suddenly be a disaster just 2 years later at age 28.
But Parra is a rental with a very high price which you just said you didn't want. Which CF is a non-rental that will cost anything less than top guys that also represents a clear upgrade? Horrendous will Venable? It's Gomez or bust basically by your rules. Parra has had a great season and tons of teams are in. I'm not giving up 2 big prospects (or even 1 TOP) guy for .5 of Parra. Seems very silly to me. They already turned down Meisner for him, Law had Meisner as the Mets #6 prospect. I'm not huge on Nimmo but Nimmo+ for half a year of Parra would be disappointing
LOL, dude.. there are no "rules"
I never said I "didn't want a rental" I said I wouldn't give up Herrera for one. Big difference.
Second of all, yes.. I think Gomez is the best fit. Doesn't mean I would be out on everyone else. I am just curious as to what happens with Conforto or Granderson if we acquire a CO. I think the biggest way to improve the team is to add someone who doesn't require sending Conforto down. Which yeah, narrows it down to Gomez or Parra. Doesn't mean I wouldn't want Bruce, Reddick or Cespedes if we could get any of them. In fact, I've been very much in favor of Bruce this entire time.
I believe that Thor will be the best pitcher out of this current crop of studs that we are currently witnessing. His stuff is just filthy and so consistent.
Then dump Murphy and recoup a prospect. Jump for joy on that one.
I'm still the only one who sees these rental prices and wonders why Murphy hasn't been shipped off already...
No, I wonder the same thing, now that there are MULTIPLE cheaper and possibly better options available.
I suggested weeks ago, that whether the Mets were buyers or sellers at the deadline, Murphy should be gone. I really hope they do not offer him the QO after the season if he's still here.
That's why this team NEEDS to make the playoffs this year. They need each of these kids on the public stage, they need to be the talk of baseball for at least a week in October. Leading to a ton of talk all offseason. You can't buy that energy and PR, oh wait - yes you can :)
Team could use his shot in the arm. His personality. His flair. Basically, he is the second base version of a Jimmy Rollins. This team could actually use it.
Secondly, he immediately makes Murphy available to recoupe a prospect. Third, Herrera can now be used as a chip, you have that flexibility. Imagine what can be acquired for Wheeler, Herrera and Fulmer in the offseason!?!?!?
Phillips production would still provide you $10-$15mm in "value" according to WAR, with the potential of more with little downside risk of less. That happens to be his contract cost. So far from an albatross contract to be taking on in a typical salary dump.
Team is an INSTANT contender this year, next year and the following year.
I'd prefer Reddick to Bruce, but Beane said he was done dealing
so even if he's just posturing it will likely take a lot to get him. My first choice Gomez will also likely take a lot to get, and Parra is a rental.
As for the OP question, I genuinely have no idea and I think that's the craziest thing about this rotation. A good case can be made for any of the top 3 right now. By the end of this season they will have possibly compiled 2 ROY trophies, 1 all star game start, 1 all star game record inning, 2 top 5 CY vote finishes, and all 3 may have career ERA's under 3. Matz hasn't pitched enough the majors yet to be in consideration.
in a heartbeat. Especially if it helped recoup a prospect and reduce the price on Bruce. Phillips is more of a winning player than Murphy and better defensively. Don't see Sandy doing that much "wheeling and dealing", but if you look at what Zobrist just brought back maybe there's someone out there looking to pay a slightly reduce price for Murphy?
don't want Parra at all. They reportedly already have been offered a "few" top 100 names by various teams. I would hate to even deal Fulmer, have him become a 2-3 starter in 2016 for .5 season of Parra.
Team could use his shot in the arm. His personality. His flair. Basically, he is the second base version of a Jimmy Rollins. This team could actually use it.
Secondly, he immediately makes Murphy available to recoupe a prospect. Third, Herrera can now be used as a chip, you have that flexibility. Imagine what can be acquired for Wheeler, Herrera and Fulmer in the offseason!?!?!?
Phillips production would still provide you $10-$15mm in "value" according to WAR, with the potential of more with little downside risk of less. That happens to be his contract cost. So far from an albatross contract to be taking on in a typical salary dump.
Team is an INSTANT contender this year, next year and the following year.
I agree with you, I would be completely in favor of it. Could you realistically see the Mets taking on money like that though? I would be absolutely shocked. This would also involve a little creativity which.. we know isn't exactly the forte of this FO.
I wouldn't want to give away Herrera unless you were getting someone that could be around long-term.
Phillips would be BECAUSE he would bring down the talent price on Bruce. He'd be a salary dump. If that allowed Herrera to be the centerpiece of a Bruce deal it's a no-brainer.
i think deGrom might have the highest upside, remember he doesnt have a lot of pitching experience and he's doing it at the highest level. The only downside is that he is the oldest among the "young guys". Him and Syndergaard are really close for me however.
These guys will all be pushing each other for years to come. Who knows who ends up with the best career but it is safe to say that all their careers will benefit from being on the same staff together.
1 Harvey - why? Simply because we already know he has proven he is Cy Young caliber and dominant. Filthy stuff with one of the best mental makeups for a pitcher imaginable.
2 DeGrom - great stuff, track record is being proven. Not the same as Harvey, but mental makeup to trust in a game 7
3 Thor - ridiculous stuff to go with the upside of his youth. Scary to think might he might become when he puts it all together and has learned how to pitch. Can't crack my top two for simple lack of mental makeup needed in the biggest of games - though he seems to have improved leaps and bounds there.
4 Matz - completely unproven other than two great starts. Very good stuff, but doesn't have the control nor command of the above three. Bulldog attitude is off the charts, but will always have a shoulder concern for me.
5 Wheeler - I've never been a big fan of his around here, so this is an easy one for me. I've always called him John Maine... Due to trade value, I'd keep Niese over him as a 5th starter personally.
fact is the Mets have not spent a SINGLE "new" dollar this season so whatever the reason, Sandy, Fred. It's disgusting to me. I like you a lot but you consistently claim Fred is willing to spend but there is ZERO proof of that. They saved 6.1 as of yesterday on Mejia and Wright and will save the remainder of Mejia's money now.
1) Thor- He's a beast physically. So strong. Intimidating presence on the mound. His fastball is consistently overpowering.
2) Harvey- His repertoire of pitches and command are rare. Tough mentality. Wants the ball.
3) DeGrom- Natural movement on his ball is electric. Aggressive mindset to attack hitters.
I'll stop there for me Wheeler is a notch below these three and I need to see more of Matz and his durability could be a problem.
Three legit aces on one staff is crazy. I don't know if I've ever seen a group of five as good as these guys can be if/when we get everyone healthy and in the rotation.
It can probably absorb a dickhead like Puig without too much trouble. As with any deal it would depend on the price. If talent was the only consideration it is a no brainer.
You know position, Fred will spend it's Sandy who is holding back. Whether that's right or wrong, ultimately doesn't matter since they haven't been spending. Which is frustrating to every single fan.
But. The article itself. Not on it's cover - the actual meat and potatoes of what's written - you find the article fair? Not looking to debate it since no one is right or wrong, just asking your opinion. Since you are probably one of the most knowledgeable Mets fan here, and one of the most frustrated on the lack of spending.
Puig hasn't been great this year but his contract is hugely valuable.. locked up 3 more years for cheap. They can't stand him in LA, though... and he'd cost a LOT. Can't see it happening.
This makes no sense. Sandy won't deal just to do something and he isn't going to radically overpay. The $$$ comes from the Wilponsis. This has been going on for years. You really think sandy preferred bargain basement shopping on guys like Chris Young and his ilk? Does that sound like fun for a GM?
You put a lot of smart and interesting stuff out Shecky but you'll need a shovel to sell this one.
1. I've given up trying to understand the loan stuff. That's beyond my paygrade
2. Sandy claims they have money to spend, but to this point they 100% have not. I don't see how fans can continue to "buy" this until proven otherwise.
3. The claim was made if the fans come out the payroll would go up. Then the team themselves claims 17% increase in sales yet (again it's not 7/31 yet) the math works out to the Mets actually SAVING money on the season for Mejia+Wright vs. the 2 trades.
They're hustling the A's to pick up salary in a non-salary dump trade. Tells you all you need to know.
What Im less impressed by is the end of that article. I just cant fault the Mets for not trading for Tulo, Reyes, or Cargo. Those guys are huge injury risks. The only available guy who really gets my juices flowing is Gomez, who could require a Lagares plus a really high end guy (Matz, Conforto etc), plus. You just cant speak to any potential trade without knowing the particulars, and with injured guys, the extent of the injury.
Sandy likely has limits (most GM's do) but maybe his limits have been higher than he has used to this point preferring to wait until the right timing and opportunity to use it all.
He obviously doesn't have unlimited money at his disposal and with this pitching staff if he builds it right this team can be set for championship type potential for years to come. Better he is cautious and tries to get it right than forcing things at this point and blowing it. He may have only one really good chance at getting this right.
that Wilpons are broke? There are Met fans who haven't figured out that the Mets are being run like a team that's gone bankrupt? PT Barnum was right.
I'm a circus lover, what can I say. Visited their museum in Sarasota many a times...
Torrag - So no one is buying my bullshit still lol? I just bought a boatload of manure and have no one left to sell too. DAMN.
Other than Z, perhaps I am the last Mets fan standing thinking we are in a very good place right now. I've been heartbroken each of the last twice this week though, so I am getting more and more frustrated like everyone else.
topic a bit but despite their praise I don't think people realize how INSANELY good the Cardinals have been at cultivating talent. If you look at their roster it's mind boggling.
Pedro Lopez quotes on Nimmo don't exactly boost his trade value lol #Mets
B-Mets manager Pedro Lopez said. "Unfortunately, after he got hurt he wasn't the same. I don't think the jumps and the routes were the same. I guess, due to the injury he couldn't reach that last gear like he used to. I'll tell you, he did a good job. I think his at-bats were better. I think he was growing as a hitter, as a player overall."
and
Quote:
"When you got knee problems, that's going to effect you because you can't use your lower half the way that you're supposed to, and he's still afraid a little bit," Natera said. "You can see it when he's running too. He's not the same runner, even in the outfield. You don't see the same jump because he knee is not 100 percent. No doubt, that will effect his power a little bit. At least now, maybe because of that, he uses his hands much better."
Pitching is the most valuable commodity to have in baseball and we have it in spades.
Our recent moves make a playoff berth a reasonable possibility. Those are good things.
We're still a legit middle of the order bat away from being true contenders. That isn't easy to find without compromising the organization.
BTW Sandy seemed a little annoyed that Tulo was dealt to Toronto. Guess work here but he probably feels he had the best offer on the table. We know the owners lied to Tulo about consulting him on destination. With his health the last place he would have chosen is the worst turf in the league.
Not sure how any Mets fan can be down on them right now
there a difference between being down or "not excited" and being really disappointed they won't spend money to help the team? EVERYONE agreed they needed a bat.
there a difference between being down or "not excited" and being really disappointed they won't spend money to help the team? EVERYONE agreed they needed a bat.
Debating between "down" or "disappointed" really is just semantics isn't it?
there a difference between being down or "not excited" and being really disappointed they won't spend money to help the team? EVERYONE agreed they needed a bat.
Debating between "down" or "disappointed" really is just semantics isn't it?
Totally disagree. Excited about aspects of the team, disappointed ownership refuses to do more. If that's your rationale the Mets could do NOTHING all off-season and you would be happy because of the young pitching. If that's your rationale why do we even talk about making additions or needs?
"I've learned so much from [pitching coach Dan Warthen], [Matt] Harvey and [Jacob] deGrom, and even Bartolo [Colon], even with the language barrier. It's a lot of fun being able to watch him go out there and have as much fun as he does"
Bartolo, the great mentor of the kids. "even Bartolo", as if it was a surprise. And what has he learned? "To have fun" lol
the Wilpon's didn't allow SA to go after because of $$$?
They haven't added a single dollar in payroll. You don't find that to be unusual for a playoff contending team with one of the lowest payrolls in baseball with CLEAR needs? How about some bench speed? A second lefty? No needs at all?
I think it's just insulting to keep telling your fans you are willing to spend money to improve the team but continually do not back it up.
I am sure they think they are fooling the majority of the fans into thinking adding Uribe, KJ and Clippard has meant "spending" but as we all know, they actually didn't spend a time.
And this doesn't mean they have to go out and just dole out some 150M contract just to do it.. but even in smaller trades, if they'd be more willing to take on money, the cost would be less in terms of talent. It does make a difference.
has been a while since I looked into it. Some of my knowledge comes from speaking with 2 friends who worked on the Madoff bankruptcy. Essentially the commercial real estate market crashed, the Wilpons needed $$ to pay of real estate obligations (e.g. tenants go under and rents cant be replaced) -- whammy #1. Their Madoff account went from being the rainy day fund to a potential and ultimate source of massive liability -- whammy #2.
There was one asset left which could give them $$ to stay alive while the RE market sorted out and to cover Madoff costs. That was the Mets. So they extracted money from the Mets. Essentially took out loans against the Mets/SNY assets and used the loan proceeds to cover whammy #1-2. But it was a real perfect storm for the Wilpons, since the Mets were already in a lot of debt because of Citifield. The timing of Citifield was really whammy #3, because it meant that the RE/Madoff debts they put onto the Mets rendered the team highly leveraged. And like a lot of highly leveraged companies, the goal has been essentially to stay alive long enough for growth and inflation and a bit of debt servicing to whittle away at the debt.
we acquired Zobrist without paying the Zobrist price tag. Uribe and Johnson give you all the flexibility Zobrist would have position wise, and both their bats make up for Zobrists as far as this season. They are all around the same age, and all having similar seasons. In fact, you can probably make the case that two of three are better than one but since its "Zobrist" Ill say its about even.
We also strengthened the bullpen, Mejia suspension or not, which I didn't even anticipate. Acquiring another teams closer who will be available for the postseason was a nice move.
Kirk, Conforto, Tejada, Flores, and Johnson are fighting for a couple positions and most are playing pretty well lately. Not sure if OF and SS is even that huge of a need anymore and those were really the only two positions we could upgrade.
It sounds like the prices on some the remaining players are exorbitant so if this is what we have, this is what we have. Im not in the least bit upset about it. I would have been pissed if we did NOTHING, but we absolutely improved the roster.
2015 Mets are 15th/15 in runs scored. A bit different don't you think?
Mets were 8th in scoring last year and have played the first half without many crucial pieces. TDA, Murphy, Wright, Uribe, Johnson, Conforto could easily give us what last years team was giving us as we head into the playoffs. And you know that wasn't my point at all anyway. Some of the earlier Giants teams had Posey and Panda and not a whole lot else and they won championships. Im sure every Giant fan, especially during their first run, was saying... "Oh Shit, I wish we had another bat" As they entered the playoffs . Pitching wins in the playoffs period.
The problem is that since we've won all 3 of the games we've played since the moves, it kind of gives off the sense that "everything is fixed, we're ready to compete" and sucks people into overvaluing the moves made... but we're going to hit rough patches again. It's just how it ebbs and flows. And if we don't add one more piece, I guarantee a time will come in September where we are all saying "goddamn it... if we just had that one more bat it could have made the difference"
If Wright is back then Uribe/Johnson aren't changing much. How is Uribe playing with Murphy and Wright in there? Can't just add up every player regardless of position and say "well they are adding X". If Wright is at 3b and Murphy at 2b where is Uribe making an impact besides the bench?
teams thought they were a TRUE BAT away from being a contender as well.
You flat out said you would be very disappointed if Sandy didn't add a bat. Talk about back tracking.
They added two bats? Like I said, Uribe AND Johnson was on par with adding a Zobrist. Would I like another? Yeah I would. I think Parra would still be a nice add in the outfield but we bolstered the team already.
could probably get Jose Reyes without giving anything up as a salary dump. Even if Reyes has declined, I think we'd all agree that he's a better player than Tejada.
Reyes would be the perfect bridge to Cecchini/Rosario. The deal would likely be dead money in the back-end, but we'd be better today and 2016.
the Mets chances with the Team on the field today, I will like them more on Friday when TDA replaces Plawecki. I will like them a lot more if Wright is playing 3b on August 15th. I will like them more if Matz takes the hill on august 15t. I like them more if Blevins is coming out of the pen on August 15th
we acquired Zobrist without paying the Zobrist price tag. Uribe and Johnson give you all the flexibility Zobrist would have position wise, and both their bats make up for Zobrists as far as this season. They are all around the same age, and all having similar seasons. In fact, you can probably make the case that two of three are better than one but since its "Zobrist" Ill say its about even.
Zobrist isn't the kind of bat we're talking about anyway. Nor is Parra. If those guys are Sandy's 'bullet' we've been sold a bill of goods ...again. Except many of us aren't buying. Then there are others that slurp up anything the team spews on the sidewalk gratefully. Right Z?
there a difference between being down or "not excited" and being really disappointed they won't spend money to help the team? EVERYONE agreed they needed a bat.
Debating between "down" or "disappointed" really is just semantics isn't it?
Totally disagree. Excited about aspects of the team, disappointed ownership refuses to do more. If that's your rationale the Mets could do NOTHING all off-season and you would be happy because of the young pitching. If that's your rationale why do we even talk about making additions or needs?
But they haven't done nothing so that's a silly and moot point. If they truly did absolutely nothing maybe I would be down/disappointed in them as well but that isn't the case.
IMO talking about options and possibilities is one of the fun things about baseball however they not making a move that I perhaps thought about doesn't cause me any angst.
RE: The new York Mets as seen through beer goggles
we acquired Zobrist without paying the Zobrist price tag. Uribe and Johnson give you all the flexibility Zobrist would have position wise, and both their bats make up for Zobrists as far as this season. They are all around the same age, and all having similar seasons. In fact, you can probably make the case that two of three are better than one but since its "Zobrist" Ill say its about even.
Zobrist isn't the kind of bat we're talking about anyway. Nor is Parra. If those guys are Sandy's 'bullet' we've been sold a bill of goods ...again. Except many of us aren't buying. Then there are others that slurp up anything the team spews on the sidewalk gratefully. Right Z?
I said from the beginning that was pretty much exactly who I wanted. Zobrist and Parra. So fuck off.
the Mets chances with the Team on the field today, I will like them more on Friday when TDA replaces Plawecki. I will like them a lot more if Wright is playing 3b on August 15th. I will like them more if Matz takes the hill on august 15t. I like them more if Blevins is coming out of the pen on August 15th
Wright will not be playing 3b for the Mets on 8/15
could probably get Jose Reyes without giving anything up as a salary dump. Even if Reyes has declined, I think we'd all agree that he's a better player than Tejada.
Reyes would be the perfect bridge to Cecchini/Rosario. The deal would likely be dead money in the back-end, but we'd be better today and 2016.
They don't want Reyes. Reyes isn't good. I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand.
the Mets chances with the Team on the field today, I will like them more on Friday when TDA replaces Plawecki. I will like them a lot more if Wright is playing 3b on August 15th. I will like them more if Matz takes the hill on august 15t. I like them more if Blevins is coming out of the pen on August 15th
We all would but banking on just half of those things would be very optimistic let alone all of them.
We're talking about a catcher who gets hurt every time someone bumps into him, a 3B with a serious spinal condition, a RP who is looking at being out about 3x longer than the initial timetable (if at all) and a SP who has already been under the knife and made it through a whopping 2 starts before being shelved.
unless he trips over a rake. Matz has healed but not completely, but he will. Wright could be set back in a heart beat, so I'll give you that. Blevins is a head scratcher and I'll give you that also
If Wright is back then Uribe/Johnson aren't changing much. How is Uribe playing with Murphy and Wright in there? Can't just add up every player regardless of position and say "well they are adding X". If Wright is at 3b and Murphy at 2b where is Uribe making an impact besides the bench?
I don't think Wright will play full time and even if he plays close to it going from having the worst bench in baseball to a bench full of quality major league players wouldn't be improving the team??
How has that prediction worked out for you? Seeing as the team hasn't added a red cent to date. Yep that reads .00
In fairness I do think Sandy is actively trying to add a legit bat with an economical price tag. Gomez @ 2/18M or Jay Bruce @2/26M fit the profile. It isn't as easy as it sounds. The price tags in terms of talent compensation are high.
Dan great point as far as penny pinching on the bench and a lefty arm are concerned. It's hard to take claims of salary flexibility seriously when the team won't dole out chump change to bolster a playoff push.
So you think Ruben Tejada will be better than Reyes RoS 2015 and in 2016?
Im not even sure Tejada will be a starter next year, but if he was? Yeah probably. Reyes's defense is AWFUL at this point in his career and he is giving his teams roughly "Tejada level" offense. After two years of sucking he's going to get better at 33 next year? Yeah. ok.
not a doctor but I don't understand Blevins. How does 6 weeks turn into 12 and still not cleared? Isn't there a pretty standard timeline to a bone healing?
So you think Ruben Tejada will be better than Reyes RoS 2015 and in 2016?
Im not even sure Tejada will be a starter next year, but if he was? Yeah probably. Reyes's defense is AWFUL at this point in his career and he is giving his teams roughly "Tejada level" offense. After two years of sucking he's going to get better at 33 next year? Yeah. ok.
Cool. I'll save this and we'll compare at the end of 2015 and 2016.
There's def a possibility that I'm wrong and Reyes is washed up and Tejada will continue to be solid, but my expectation is that Reyes is worth at least two extra wins over the next 8 months of baseball.
How has that prediction worked out for you? Seeing as the team hasn't added a red cent to date. Yep that reads .00
In fairness I do think Sandy is actively trying to add a legit bat with an economical price tag. Gomez @ 2/18M or Jay Bruce @2/26M fit the profile. It isn't as easy as it sounds. The price tags in terms of talent compensation are high.
Dan great point as far as penny pinching on the bench and a lefty arm are concerned. It's hard to take claims of salary flexibility seriously when the team won't dole out chump change to bolster a playoff push.
No I didn't say we would be taking on salary fuck face. I said we likely have some level of flexibility should we want or need to take on a a contract. We've already added 5.5 million, well more than what Zobrist would have costed, and its pretty clear with who the Mets have been concocted with, they CAN add more.
Should be a great atmosphere. I hope you get the sharp Harvey. His post TJ season has been a bit uneven. His last start was a step in a positive direction after walking 4 in his previous three trips to the mound.
So you think Ruben Tejada will be better than Reyes RoS 2015 and in 2016?
Im not even sure Tejada will be a starter next year, but if he was? Yeah probably. Reyes's defense is AWFUL at this point in his career and he is giving his teams roughly "Tejada level" offense. After two years of sucking he's going to get better at 33 next year? Yeah. ok.
Cool. I'll save this and we'll compare at the end of 2015 and 2016.
There's def a possibility that I'm wrong and Reyes is washed up and Tejada will continue to be solid, but my expectation is that Reyes is worth at least two extra wins over the next 8 months of baseball.
Please do. Going to be pretty pointless unless Tejada is starting full time however.
head to the game Friday night. Should be an electric atmosphere with Harvey vs. Gio and first place on the line.
I'm going Friday as well. Excited to see Harvey, I keep being worried I'll get stuck with Niese lol
I've gone to half a dozen games this year and have gotten one of Colon/Gee/Niese each time. I don't think there's rain scheduled tonight/tomorrow, so I think we're safe.
vs. Strasburg was the best game I've been to in CitiField in terms of crowd. I used to go to far more games in Shea but ended up with Bobby Jones, Trachsel and Mark Clark more than I'd like to recall.
Z, we haven't added a cent to payroll. Zilch. Don't know where you are getting 5.5 from. It's well documented at this point that all we've spent were savings. There's no net + in terms of payroll.
Please do. Going to be pretty pointless unless Tejada is starting full time however.
Then why even bother to bring up Tejada's stats in 4 months of baseball unless to say the guy we have is as good as Reyes?
Im pointing it out because NEITHER is a difference maker. Tejada playing in only a pat time role until recently has already acquired MORE WAR then Reyes. They are both roughly the same hitter. Would you consider Tejada's bat awesome or something? I sure wouldn't. The point is Reyes is WORST than Tejada. Why should we take on a contract and give up prospects for somebody worst then we have? It makes no sense. And Tejada isn't the answer either. He's doing a decent job but I would be looking to replace him again in the offseason or moving to Cecchini in 2016.
I always got Steve Trachsel. that is why I keep writing that next year this time, if they all stay healthy and come back, you can buy your tickets 2 months in advance and get a stud. I'll continue to write this on the cold bleak days this winter
Gordon Wittenmyer
@GDubCub
Source: Latos, Morse to Dodgers for prospects. At least one competitive balance pick also to Dodgers. W/ Latos off board Haren still in play
against the Giants in the playoffs, I forget what year it was, pitched one of the greatest games of all time under the circumstances. loved Bobby Jones
against the Giants in the playoffs, I forget what year it was, pitched one of the greatest games of all time under the circumstances. loved Bobby Jones
I was there for that. All things considered the most important pitching performance I ever saw live. Best ever was Pedro vs. the Yankees, had like 17-18 k's for the Sox.
Z, we haven't added a cent to payroll. Zilch. Don't know where you are getting 5.5 from. It's well documented at this point that all we've spent were savings. There's no net + in terms of payroll.
We were getting whatever insurance we got from Wright and the Mejia suspensions regardless so yes we added payroll over the deadline that we didnt have to. Its not the Mets fault if unforeseen tragedies have happened they will get repaid a little bit back on.
I have no idea why some of you are so hung up on the payroll anyway. We were sitting here wondering if they would do anything a week ago. They went out and acquired three players that cost almost twice as much as Zobrsist. They also acquired two players that cost almost 4 million in the spring. What's the point here? Those players aren't good enough because nobody will be happy unless they spend 20 million on a player? Makes no sense.
Im pointing it out because NEITHER is a difference maker. Tejada playing in only a pat time role until recently has already acquired MORE WAR then Reyes. They are both roughly the same hitter. Would you consider Tejada's bat awesome or something? I sure wouldn't. The point is Reyes is WORST than Tejada. Why should we take on a contract and give up prospects for somebody worst then we have? It makes no sense. And Tejada isn't the answer either. He's doing a decent job but I would be looking to replace him again in the offseason or moving to Cecchini in 2016.
IMO, you're ignoring some useful data. There's more to go on when projecting future performance than 90 or so games in 2015. Just last year Reyes had a year that Tejada will likely never be able to have.
I think Reyes is a pretty damn good bet to outproduce Tejada for RoS 2015 and 2016, especially now that he's off of the turf. I sincerely doubt we'd have to give up any prospects of significance to get Reyes.
game against the Yankees was the most dominate performance I ever saw. They knew what wat he going to throw and there was nothing they could do about except turn around and go back to the dugout
Z...We were getting whatever insurance we got from Wright and the Mejia suspensions regardless so yes we added payroll over the deadline that we didn't have to
against the Giants in the playoffs, I forget what year it was, pitched one of the greatest games of all time under the circumstances. loved Bobby Jones
wait which Bobby Jones? did the Mets have two Bobby Jones' at the same time.
Im pointing it out because NEITHER is a difference maker. Tejada playing in only a pat time role until recently has already acquired MORE WAR then Reyes. They are both roughly the same hitter. Would you consider Tejada's bat awesome or something? I sure wouldn't. The point is Reyes is WORST than Tejada. Why should we take on a contract and give up prospects for somebody worst then we have? It makes no sense. And Tejada isn't the answer either. He's doing a decent job but I would be looking to replace him again in the offseason or moving to Cecchini in 2016.
IMO, you're ignoring some useful data. There's more to go on when projecting future performance than 90 or so games in 2015. Just last year Reyes had a year that Tejada will likely never be able to have.
I think Reyes is a pretty damn good bet to outproduce Tejada for RoS 2015 and 2016, especially now that he's off of the turf. I sincerely doubt we'd have to give up any prospects of significance to get Reyes.
Reyes fWAR:
2012 3.9
2013 2.2
2014 3.4
2015 1.1
Tejada fWAR:
2012 1.7
2013 -0.3
2014 1.3
2015 1.3
Your seriously going back to 2012 to make a case that Reyes has been better than Tejada over the last 5 years?? lol. Wow. I think we all know that. Congratulations. I was speaking to this season in which Reyes has played most of. He's now old and a terrible defensive SS. He's not likely to get better.
Z...We were getting whatever insurance we got from Wright and the Mejia suspensions regardless so yes we added payroll over the deadline that we didn't have to
Clueless.
Yeah and I guess widely being reported as having serious conversations about Bruce, Tulo, Gomez ect is all a ruse for the sake of making fans on the BBI web site happy. We have no money to spend. Completely broke again., All for show folks.
against the Giants in the playoffs, I forget what year it was, pitched one of the greatest games of all time under the circumstances. loved Bobby Jones
wait which Bobby Jones? did the Mets have two Bobby Jones' at the same time.
Was it racist to call the other one "Black Bobby Jones"? lol
Z, we haven't added a cent to payroll. Zilch. Don't know where you are getting 5.5 from. It's well documented at this point that all we've spent were savings. There's no net + in terms of payroll.
We were getting whatever insurance we got from Wright and the Mejia suspensions regardless so yes we added payroll over the deadline that we didnt have to. Its not the Mets fault if unforeseen tragedies have happened they will get repaid a little bit back on.
I have no idea why some of you are so hung up on the payroll anyway. We were sitting here wondering if they would do anything a week ago. They went out and acquired three players that cost almost twice as much as Zobrsist. They also acquired two players that cost almost 4 million in the spring. What's the point here? Those players aren't good enough because nobody will be happy unless they spend 20 million on a player? Makes no sense.
Oh lord, you're kidding me right?
We are hung up on the payroll because despite a thousand empty assurances that we "have money to spend" and "have flexibility", not one thing has been done to back those statements.
We can take on a contract? Show us! Stop telling us you can. Stop needing cash to be a part of trades which forces us to give up better prospects. Prove it.
the Mets chances with the Team on the field today, I will like them more on Friday when TDA replaces Plawecki. I will like them a lot more if Wright is playing 3b on August 15th. I will like them more if Matz takes the hill on august 15t. I like them more if Blevins is coming out of the pen on August 15th
BAN THE MAN
There is no anti Plawecki talk allowed here!!
Z, we haven't added a cent to payroll. Zilch. Don't know where you are getting 5.5 from. It's well documented at this point that all we've spent were savings. There's no net + in terms of payroll.
We were getting whatever insurance we got from Wright and the Mejia suspensions regardless so yes we added payroll over the deadline that we didnt have to. Its not the Mets fault if unforeseen tragedies have happened they will get repaid a little bit back on.
I have no idea why some of you are so hung up on the payroll anyway. We were sitting here wondering if they would do anything a week ago. They went out and acquired three players that cost almost twice as much as Zobrsist. They also acquired two players that cost almost 4 million in the spring. What's the point here? Those players aren't good enough because nobody will be happy unless they spend 20 million on a player? Makes no sense.
Oh lord, you're kidding me right?
We are hung up on the payroll because despite a thousand empty assurances that we "have money to spend" and "have flexibility", not one thing has been done to back those statements.
We can take on a contract? Show us! Stop telling us you can. Stop needing cash to be a part of trades which forces us to give up better prospects. Prove it.
Got it. So prove it. Gut our entire system. Lets trade Wheeler, Herrera, and half our future away so we can prove to Arc that we have the ability to take on a contract. That makes perfect sense to me.
And just so you know. Oakland was steadfast on Meisner. Sandy only asked for a million bucks back because he knew Beane wasn't budging. Just because we got back a million bucks out of almost 4 doesn't mean we could have suddenly given up Tyler Pill in a trade. lol
be nice to add SOME team speed but I guess they will rely on Ceciliani or Herrera post 9/1
I agree wholeheartedly with you there Dan. Unfortunately we've got a FO who doesn't believe in speed nor a manager who believes in using speed. I still think the biggest need on the team (and organizationally) is a leadoff sparkplug.
Z, we haven't added a cent to payroll. Zilch. Don't know where you are getting 5.5 from. It's well documented at this point that all we've spent were savings. There's no net + in terms of payroll.
We were getting whatever insurance we got from Wright and the Mejia suspensions regardless so yes we added payroll over the deadline that we didnt have to. Its not the Mets fault if unforeseen tragedies have happened they will get repaid a little bit back on.
I have no idea why some of you are so hung up on the payroll anyway. We were sitting here wondering if they would do anything a week ago. They went out and acquired three players that cost almost twice as much as Zobrsist. They also acquired two players that cost almost 4 million in the spring. What's the point here? Those players aren't good enough because nobody will be happy unless they spend 20 million on a player? Makes no sense.
Oh lord, you're kidding me right?
We are hung up on the payroll because despite a thousand empty assurances that we "have money to spend" and "have flexibility", not one thing has been done to back those statements.
We can take on a contract? Show us! Stop telling us you can. Stop needing cash to be a part of trades which forces us to give up better prospects. Prove it.
Got it. So prove it. Gut our entire system. Lets trade Wheeler, Herrera, and half our future away so we can prove to Arc that we have the ability to take on a contract. That makes perfect sense to me.
And just so you know. Oakland was steadfast on Meisner. Sandy only asked for a million bucks back because he knew Beane wasn't budging. Just because we got back a million bucks out of almost 4 doesn't mean we could have suddenly given up Tyler Pill in a trade. lol
Yes, Z.. because there are zero moves to be made that don't include our absolute best prospects.
You'll believe anything this FO feeds you. It's incredible.
that would be an interesting flier, in all likelihood as a waiver trade if we miss out on bigger fish. Pesky veteran speed guys always seem to have their moment in big games. I'd prefer him to Byrd since he can play CF, even though I'm sure he's lost a few steps at age 35.
be nice to add SOME team speed but I guess they will rely on Ceciliani or Herrera post 9/1
I agree wholeheartedly with you there Dan. Unfortunately we've got a FO who doesn't believe in speed nor a manager who believes in using speed. I still think the biggest need on the team (and organizationally) is a leadoff sparkplug.
Simon mentioned Rajai Davis, I thought about maybe Crisp for Cuddyer until I saw Davis was -17 DRS last season! WOW. Not much speed to be had.
and it certainly is too small a sample to judge, he can carry the team on his back till the end of the season like he did last year.I'm not banking on it, but he is a difference maker when hitting
Z, we haven't added a cent to payroll. Zilch. Don't know where you are getting 5.5 from. It's well documented at this point that all we've spent were savings. There's no net + in terms of payroll.
We were getting whatever insurance we got from Wright and the Mejia suspensions regardless so yes we added payroll over the deadline that we didnt have to. Its not the Mets fault if unforeseen tragedies have happened they will get repaid a little bit back on.
I have no idea why some of you are so hung up on the payroll anyway. We were sitting here wondering if they would do anything a week ago. They went out and acquired three players that cost almost twice as much as Zobrsist. They also acquired two players that cost almost 4 million in the spring. What's the point here? Those players aren't good enough because nobody will be happy unless they spend 20 million on a player? Makes no sense.
Oh lord, you're kidding me right?
We are hung up on the payroll because despite a thousand empty assurances that we "have money to spend" and "have flexibility", not one thing has been done to back those statements.
We can take on a contract? Show us! Stop telling us you can. Stop needing cash to be a part of trades which forces us to give up better prospects. Prove it.
Got it. So prove it. Gut our entire system. Lets trade Wheeler, Herrera, and half our future away so we can prove to Arc that we have the ability to take on a contract. That makes perfect sense to me.
And just so you know. Oakland was steadfast on Meisner. Sandy only asked for a million bucks back because he knew Beane wasn't budging. Just because we got back a million bucks out of almost 4 doesn't mean we could have suddenly given up Tyler Pill in a trade. lol
Yes, Z.. because there are zero moves to be made that don't include our absolute best prospects.
You'll believe anything this FO feeds you. It's incredible.
Isn't that exactly the kind of player we are all referring to though? The huge difference maker like Gomez, or Tulo, or Cespedes? Do we really need more depth moves? The back end of the roster looks pretty strong all of the sudden. Unfortunately the big guys are going to cost a lot, possibly too much. Even Dan has said Parra's price tag is now through the roof and probably not worth it.
He needs some help. TDA can help. Duda can help. Cadaver is done. We're still going to be offensively challenged even with Uribe and Johnson. But it's better than it was.
It doesn't have to be so cut and dry, though. That's what bugs me. And the reason I keep bringing up payroll is because the price on Bruce would be less if we were willing to take Phillips' contract back with him (and Phillips is still a pretty good regular)
There are plenty examples of how being able to kick in money/take money back can improve the club without paying such a hefty price in terms of prospects. I just wish the Mets would show the ability to do that. It helps and absolutely can make a difference.
Fans who can't acknowledge the good and bad about their teams
from Dan sure.. but how do we know that is even a remote possibility?? For all we know that has zero chance of even being a remote possibility whether we had the payroll to take it on or not. Plus we have a huge glut at second base right now with Murphy, Johnson, AND Flores. Plus Herrera in AAA. 4 2nd baseman basically available today and we want to pay an overpaid 5th?
I personally think we can get Bruce without that but who knows whats really going on here.
It's times like these I feel the need to get literary.
Quote:
The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function.
F. Scott Fitzgerald
If you are referring to me what part of the roster do I not see the bad in? I would like a huge MVP caliber bat in the middle of the lineup as much as the next guy but it might not be doable or all that easy to pull off. And Im not up for mortgaging the future either. I think we likely have enough right now to compete. Especially with TDA back Friday and possibly Wright the end of August.
You need to find a leadoff man to go that route HH
For the record, I don't trust ownership to make a trade to add payroll. I would love to be surprised of course. And if the Wilpons do take on salary, I would certainly applaud the move.
RE: This thread has gone from which pitcher has the highest ceiling
For the record, I don't trust ownership to make a trade to add payroll. I would love to be surprised of course. And if the Wilpons do take on salary, I would certainly applaud the move.
No offense to the original topic but how long could this thread possibly be on that one topic?
RE: RE: Fans who can't acknowledge the good and bad about their teams
It's times like these I feel the need to get literary.
Quote:
The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function.
F. Scott Fitzgerald
If you are referring to me what part of the roster do I not see the bad in? I would like a huge MVP caliber bat in the middle of the lineup as much as the next guy but it might not be doable or all that easy to pull off. And Im not up for mortgaging the future either. I think we likely have enough right now to compete. Especially with TDA back Friday and possibly Wright the end of August.
I just can't remember you criticizing the Mets. And God knows that they've been bad for long enough to deserve a ton of a criticism. We can enjoy this amazing young pitching and being in it (though the Nats haven't been great) while knocking them for past and current mismanagement, no?
Parra. Still hope we can add him and he won't cost us a ton. I know he was a gold glover two years ago and weirdly his defensive numbers are down being jerked around in three different positions but at 28 I think he would'nt kill us in CF. He'd be better than Granderson there and you still have Lagares to take over late in a game.
RE: Fans who can't acknowledge the good and bad about their teams
I would try Conforto hitting lead off. it's not etched in stone he stays there, he will be their eventual # 3 hitter, but why not give it a shot for a week to 10 days?
RE: RE: This thread has gone from which pitcher has the highest ceiling
For the record, I don't trust ownership to make a trade to add payroll. I would love to be surprised of course. And if the Wilpons do take on salary, I would certainly applaud the move.
No offense to the original topic but how long could this thread possibly be on that one topic?
I agree. Sorry my sarcasm alert button was turned off. :)
Everyone has expected a Padres salary purge for weeks
It's times like these I feel the need to get literary.
Quote:
The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function.
F. Scott Fitzgerald
If you are referring to me what part of the roster do I not see the bad in? I would like a huge MVP caliber bat in the middle of the lineup as much as the next guy but it might not be doable or all that easy to pull off. And Im not up for mortgaging the future either. I think we likely have enough right now to compete. Especially with TDA back Friday and possibly Wright the end of August.
I just can't remember you criticizing the Mets. And God knows that they've been bad for long enough to deserve a ton of a criticism. We can enjoy this amazing young pitching and being in it (though the Nats haven't been great) while knocking them for past and current mismanagement, no?
I criticize Collins. I fault the Wilpons for the entire Madoff situations and I especially don't like Jeff. There's many players I hate on the team. I am a big believer in Sandy and I absolutely support him and his process. I think he has turned this team around and has us built for many years of sustained success. That said I don't think Sandy is having the best year. Think he should have pulled the trigger earlier on getting rid of Cambell. I never was thrilled with the A. Torres trade and even more keeping him this long... He's not perfect and I share my gripes.
sounds like a guy resurrected who can be an impact lefty out of the pen
Very excited. He reportedly has hit 99 multiple times. A hard throwing lefty out of the pen of that caliber would be an awesome find. Former first round pick.
he feels healthy and in control. Lefties over 95 mph will always find a spot on a roster. Going to start following him *unless he like everyone else i follow is traded by 4:00pm on Friday
Mets have done a nice job with pitching reclamations
even though he is having a horrific couple of months. I wouldn't give up a ton but I think he would add a much needed presence and hopefully heats up again soon.
any plus games from Bartolo is like stealing. You just want to get past
Bartolo & Niese( no disrespect to those guys, they've been above and beyond) and get to deGrom Harvey Thor and hopefully Matz. The bigger the game, these guys( the young guys) step up their games
with Upton is you need to give the Padres "more than" the first round pick they will get if/when he walks.
Yeah. Thats what I was thinking too. So Maybe Montero is worth more than a first round comp pick? About as far as I would go.
Find it hard to believe he's viewed as such when Beane turned down Montero for Zobrist. If Montero were healthy having a big year I think it changes things. "Lost season" working his way back dims his value.
unless he's part of the future i.e. can take Granderson's spot and grow with the pitching long term. If we get that player, I'd look to sell high on Granderson this offseason and get out of that contract. I think there's a big risk of him regressing to the poor form of the past few seasons.
I just meant in worth as far as being better than a first round comp pick. Upton has been so bad lately Im guessing his value has plummeted as well. At least Zobrist had severely heated up before being traded.
why is Wheeler's name out there? you talk about lowest value point, has to be for Wheeler unless you just want to give him away
Shoulder is often career ending and Wheeler when healthy still has sex appeal. Big tall arm with mid 90's FB. Would anyone honestly prefer Montero over Wheeler if you could only keep one on BBI? And I say that as a Wheeler critique and Montero fan.
What is your basis for saying it was Meisner or no deal?
What could we have had from Oakland instead of the $1 million? A prospect? IFA money? Is it your position that the $1 million was just completely free and we couldnt have gotten anything else instead? Again, your basis please.
And what alternative transactions might we have considered if we didnt need to fit into a small market budget? Fangraphs said Steve Cishek was had for a non-prospect. Might we have been better off with him? I dont know, but getting back money in BOTH recent deals is awfully telling -- it tells me that the Wilpons were unwilling to add payroll beyond the Wright insurance funds, and that we got talent and paid prices commensurate with that unwillingness to pony up.
What is your basis for saying it was Meisner or no deal?
What could we have had from Oakland instead of the $1 million? A prospect? IFA money? Is it your position that the $1 million was just completely free and we couldnt have gotten anything else instead? Again, your basis please.
And what alternative transactions might we have considered if we didnt need to fit into a small market budget? Fangraphs said Steve Cishek was had for a non-prospect. Might we have been better off with him? I dont know, but getting back money in BOTH recent deals is awfully telling -- it tells me that the Wilpons were unwilling to add payroll beyond the Wright insurance funds, and that we got talent and paid prices commensurate with that unwillingness to pony up.
Its been widely reported that Beane was insistent on Meisner. Clippard had almost 4 million left on his deal and we are paying close to 3 million of it. That IS taking on most of the deal. If you honestly think we were closing the deal without Meisner if we had paid the extra million then I don't know what to tell you. It is my opinion that is not the case here.
"Clippard, who is a free agent after this season, is owed approximately $3 million for the rest of this season. A team source said that the As are paying at least $1 million of that."
still want to keep painting me as someone who is saying there is NO money issues and we have unlimited funds. lol. I have NEVER said that and have to explain myself almost daily here. Seems to me Sandy was targeting some pretty big fish. I have long said flexibility probably only means a 10-15 million dollar buffer, if that. Getting a million bucks here, 500,000 bucks here I'm sure is prudent if thats the case. And no I don't think that changing what we gave up all that much. The Uribe and Johnson deal was an absolute steal and its widely reported Meisner was Beane's target for Clippard and they had long been scouting each other for months.
"Clippard, who is a free agent after this season, is owed approximately $3 million for the rest of this season. A team source said that the As are paying at least $1 million of that."
Yeah I thought it was like 3.8 and they were paying a million of that but Id have to double check. It could have been 3 and 1. Doesn't change what Im saying whatsoever.
maybe I missed it. Where is the report that Meisner was a deal breaker irregardless of the $1 million?
And in any event, if we were willing to take on more salary then there may have been better/talent-cheaper options. Big market teams use $$ like a weapon. The Mets are down there with the Poors, trying to fashion a competitive team on a relative shoestring budget. There isnt another NY area team that spends like a small market team, excepting the Islanders who have been a joke for years (and were recently sold).
Alex (Ct): What is the latest feeling o. Dilso. Herrera? Is he still the answer for the Mets at 2nd next he? Whatprojection do you have on him?
Ben Badler: Still very optimistic about his future. Hes had a couple of very brief stints in the major leagues that have shown flashes of his potential but overall werent good enough, but hes a 21-year-old pure hitter with good balance and a quick stroke whos dominated at every level, including this year in Triple-A. If you give him consistent playing time, he can develop into an above-average regular.
Nick (Right Field): Do you think Hi-A might have been a little to big of a jump for Marcos Molina. How do you project him going forward?
Ben Badler: The competition level was fine, he just got hurt. When he was healthy, he had frontline starter potential.
Sandy (Queens): What can you tell me about Luis Carpio?
Ben Badler: A personal favorite of mine we put into our Top 30 for July 2 a couple years ago. Very young kid for his signing class whos hit better than I would have expected given his aggressive assignment this year to the Appy League. Nice, level line drive stroke, good pitch recognition, understands the strike zone and will always be more about OBP over power with a chance to stay at shortstop. Scrappy, gamer type too that managers will love. Stock is definitely up this year.
Jonathan (NYC): Hey Ben, I know most prospect lists had Thor maxing out as #2, but now seeing what Thor is doing in the majors, do you think he has an ace-ceiling? And if so where was his improvements from the minors? Thanks!
Ben Badler: I had him the top pitching prospect coming into the season and thought at the time he could be an ace, which is a label I only throw on a small, elite group of minor league pitchers. Its overpowering stuff that he commands and holds deep into the game.
Last year impending FA Andrew Miller fetched significantly more than Meisner and I don't think there was any money that changed hands as part of the deal.
The counterpoint that is Paplebon this year, but he was a different case since he had a huge option year next year and he had a lot of leverage to hold up the deal (reduced his market).
Meisner was pretty fair value and though I'd agree the need to have 1M kicked in is confounding, I don't believe that money is the difference between the A's accepting a lesser prospect. If it was I would 100% agree and be pretty furious with the organization.
make that same deal if you replace Conforto with any of Nimmo, Cecchini, Fulmer or Herrera and be very excited about it. I'd be dreaming big after that one.
RE: PEDs and his personality and the way he handled himself
Colon is at the end. I don't feel any particular sort of way for colon other than laughing when he actually gets a hit.
But if Colon is pitching a 1 game playoff, you will cheer for him correct? I personally cheer for the laundry and accept I have cheered for (and will continue to) cheer for cheaters, homophobes, racists and jerks. Before this last suspension we were all prepared to cheer for Mejia, we all cheered for Mota etc etc.
serious question because that's the only guy out there that would get me thinking seriously. Though I'm sure they'd ask for Wheeler also, and to me that's possibly way too rich given his #'s this season.
Segura has just been so awful. Huge downgrade from Tejada and yes Im serious. Braun is paid a ton and should really be a salary dump. If your giving up a huge package for Braun they should be kicking in some salary. If they did I could probably get on board with a Nimmo, Cecchini, Herrera, ect package, sure.
Miller was a lefty with better numbers and WAY better stuff than Clippard. Going on the assumption that better stuff is more likely to translate in the playoffs, Miller had way more value.
Also, Im not an expert on Balt's system so the prospect may have sucked. But unless the system is terrible, I dont think you trade your #3 prospect for a UFA reliever at the deadline. I think that's stupid. We got Pitt's #9 and #11 prospects for Byrd and Buck, and one of those was a RP himself, and Byrd > Miller. Though I possibly under-rate the value of specific relievers, especially when the Royals made bullpens cool again.
serious question because that's the only guy out there that would get me thinking seriously. Though I'm sure they'd ask for Wheeler also, and to me that's possibly way too rich given his #'s this season.
They'd ask for way more than Conforto and Wheeler. Your giving up Syndergaard or Matz for Puig.
is a 2 - 2.5 WAR player making 3 WAR money. With age (nearly 32) and PEDs concerns. Why does he have positive value enough to get a prospect haul back? He should be a semi-salary dump, or else free agents are getting way underpaid at $~7/fWAR.
is a 2 - 2.5 WAR player making 3 WAR money. With age (nearly 32) and PEDs concerns. Why does he have positive value enough to get a prospect haul back? He should be a semi-salary dump, or else free agents are getting way underpaid at $~7/fWAR.
serious question because that's the only guy out there that would get me thinking seriously. Though I'm sure they'd ask for Wheeler also, and to me that's possibly way too rich given his #'s this season.
Puig just scares me. So many reports that they just can't stand him. Great talent but I don't know if I want to bring that into this clubhouse.
Though I might be wrong here in assuming that Matz is Jewish
Im higher on Nimmo than most so Id try swap that for Rosario or somebody but gun to my head I probably do it. Think he'd add another dynamic to this team this year and give us a much needed leadoff hitter.
I know ppl are down on Nimmo but i think he's got a chance to be a solid player and I know you have to give up something to get something. But that sucks for me.
RE: RE: Though I might be wrong here in assuming that Matz is Jewish
Parra is really a .330 hitter. He's been a bit lucky it appears. His BABIP is high but checking back on his history literally every season of his career his BABIP is 30-to 50 points higher than his average. He certainly looks like he might be one of those players that will ALWAYS have a higher BABIP.
Parra is really a .330 hitter. He's been a bit lucky it appears. His BABIP is high but checking back on his history literally every season of his career his BABIP is 30-to 50 points higher than his average. He certainly looks like he might be one of those players that will ALWAYS have a higher BABIP.
It's not his BABIP they don't believe in. Article goes in depth. They think this is a fluke season (which does sometimes happen). His approach apparently is all over the place but has been lucky this year.
"ts a mess. Small samples blah blah blah, but theres no discernible game plan here. There should be a game plan you think there would be one, given the ISO heat maps but theres not. And thats why Im reluctant to declare Parra has transcended the need for a timeshare (regardless of the abilities of his counterpart) and surely why Manager Craig Counsell has yet to permit it. Parras four extra-base hits (of 14 total hits) against lefties this year very truthfully happened and we can never take that away from him. But that make the accomplishment any less of an anomaly, and it looks to me like Parra didnt as much earn the XBHs as much as he simply happened into them. I acknowledge that just because he doesnt swing often at a certain pitch location doesnt mean hes incapable of hitting that pitch location with authority. However, youd expect that a hitter swings most at pitches he thinks he can hit best. This is my concern, dude.
His true quality of batsmanship, therefore, comes back to the question of his batting average on balls in play (BABIP). My expected BABIP (xBABIP) equation pegs Parra for a .341 xBABIP, largely validating his current .351 BABIP that, if the season ended now, would represent a career-best rate. Parra has always been a high-BABIP guy .325 career, .305 at his worst but not necessarily with consistency. In other words, another .300-plus batting average next year asks a lot.
Still, Parra, 28, is theoretically entering his prime; his batted ball profile could actually improve or, if anything, remain stable and not regress next year, and he could prove me (edit: and Sarris and Sporer) wrong. But the lifted truck behind us has its high beams blasting into the rear-view mirror and theyre hard to ignore and theyre really bright but if you squint hard enough the bumper sticker says Six Years of Predominantly Mediocre Offense. Losses in his batted ball gains will correspond with losses in power and BABIP, reducing Parra to his former self.
For now, Parra is a serviceable fantasy outfielder in that hell contribute, albeit modestly, to every standard offensive category. But I am loath to expect he wont regress next year. Parra epitomizes the hot hand (depending on your definition of hot and, maybe, hand), and I advocate riding it, depending on your needs. But I dont anticipate valuable production from Parra beyond this season."
strange how Nimmo goes from talking about the power he unlocked in ST with Kevin Long to not homering in now 60 straight games.
Zero is an incredible number. Though if what his manager said in that linked article is true re his knee. It would explain a lot about lack of a lot of HRs. Just not sure how he has zero...
strange how Nimmo goes from talking about the power he unlocked in ST with Kevin Long to not homering in now 60 straight games.
Zero is an incredible number. Though if what his manager said in that linked article is true re his knee. It would explain a lot about lack of a lot of HRs. Just not sure how he has zero...
with blaming Nimmo's knee injury is he also didn't homer a single time over 28 games between his 2nd homer and getting hurt. I don't doubt his knee could be an issue since then but just strikes me as weird a guy of that build could show so little power and suddenly walk less.
since April 14th either. He missed a nice chunk of time due to injury. I just don't understand the obsession with homeruns and Nimmo. It was always said it would develop late with him due to how raw he was when he was drafted if at all. He's flashed some homerun ability at different points but as a future leadoff type Im far more concerned with his ability to hit for average, take a walk, and hopefully be able to stick in CF where his value would be best utilized.
Pie in the sky everything works out and talent is utilized I see him as a Choo or Gardner type with less speed.
I would do Nimmo for Parra. Not the most ideal but I'd still do it. I'm just not that high on Nimmo. Never was. I had Conforto pegged as "the guy" from basically right after he was drafted.
Everyone always raves about him, the person, the talent, etc. works hard.
But. The one critique I heard about him always stuck with me. Does he love the game? He doesn't have the Harvey personality, the DeGrom personality, cechinni, or Conforto personality. All different but ultimately gym rats who love the game. I've heard Nimmo works hard and a good student, but does he truly LOVE the game?
Reason I mention that is, I wonder if the injuries have taken their toll. And more importantly the expectations and criticism?
I've always maintained if you were expecting some middle of the order basher you were going to be severely disappointed. Gardner hit 17 homeruns once in his life but is generally much lower than that. Kind of how I always saw Nimmo if he fulfilled his potential. He'll run into a few but on base ability was always going to be his calling card.
I still think Lagares has to have a left-handed platoon mate over the next couple years also and Nimmo could make a nice part of that platoon in 2016.
Everyone always raves about him, the person, the talent, etc. works hard.
But. The one critique I heard about him always stuck with me. Does he love the game? He doesn't have the Harvey personality, the DeGrom personality, cechinni, or Conforto personality. All different but ultimately gym rats who love the game. I've heard Nimmo works hard and a good student, but does he truly LOVE the game?
Reason I mention that is, I wonder if the injuries have taken their toll. And more importantly the expectations and criticism?
Im seriously confused about this. People in the organization rave about him, the talent, the person, works hard but your wondering if he loves baseball?
RE: Not sure why home runs are a sticking point anyway
Unless you're a special kind of all-star in waiting.
He has one steal and isn't walking like he had previously. Which stats this year should we be focusing on? Law was unimpressed (after liking him previously). I think the critiques are more than fair. should be noted Law was on the Smith and Cecchini bandwagons even when they were struggling
but if Nimmo wasn't a first round pick, no one would be talking about him.
I highly doubt he'd be a top 50 on BA currently with multiple appearances and consistently in the top 100 if it was only because he was a first round pick. Cecchini was nowhere near a list until this year and upcoming year and he is also a first round pick.
but here some information from post-draft reports on Nimmo.
and from some of the stuff I read about him not having a high school team and all the travel he had to do to play I don't know if I'd question his love for the game? But he did get $2M at 18 years old, maybe burnout? If anything. Just going by what Shecky posted and trying to read between the lines.
Quote:
I want to make it to New York as quick as possible and please everyone in New York and be an All-Star and be all that stuff everyone wants from their first-rounder. But its going to take a few years to do that, but I cant wait to get started. I love goals.
You can see Nimmo already has a big-league personality.
His American Legion coach Tagg Lain runs the Cheyenne Post Six program that produces a 70-game schedule, a schedule this year that included a week of spring training in Arizona so that the bevy of scouts following Brandon could watch daily eight-hour workouts.
Ive coached Bryce Harper in the Tournament of Stars, says Lain, who has coached 18 years and has won nine of the last 10 American Legion state championships with Post Six. Thats when I told [tournament officials] that Ive got a guy who is that close to Bryce. There is not a huge gap between those two guys.
but if Nimmo wasn't a first round pick, no one would be talking about him.
I highly doubt he'd be a top 50 on BA currently with multiple appearances and consistently in the top 100 if it was only because he was a first round pick. Cecchini was nowhere near a list until this year and upcoming year and he is also a first round pick.
What do you like about him? What are his plus tools? The best I can see is that he's got good plate discipline. Besides that he's decidedly average or worse in every facet of baseball as far as I can tell. I don't think that's enough. And he's not even young anymore.
Said his swing looked long, that he's turned into a ground ball machine and that his year was disappointing. Not just about the homers
We just had this discussion like a week ago. Don't think we need to re-hash it. His OBP is over .350 (yes his BABIP is a little high but also SSS), his wRC+ in AA is 111 and so far in Vegas 190. He's also had a injury riddled season and for all we know is being told NOT to run. His ability to stick in CF all this time is a big PLUS as far as Im concerned and I believe the bat is holding its own, even if not spectacular yet. We also know he gets red hot at times and puts up video game numbers for a few weeks at a time and we haven't seen that this year yet either. Also still 2-3 years younger than everyone in his league.
Unless you're a special kind of all-star in waiting.
He has one steal and isn't walking like he had previously. Which stats this year should we be focusing on? Law was unimpressed (after liking him previously). I think the critiques are more than fair. should be noted Law was on the Smith and Cecchini bandwagons even when they were struggling
I was only referencing judging prospects on home runs. That's like the last stat I'd look at. Everything else is fair game.
but if Nimmo wasn't a first round pick, no one would be talking about him.
I highly doubt he'd be a top 50 on BA currently with multiple appearances and consistently in the top 100 if it was only because he was a first round pick. Cecchini was nowhere near a list until this year and upcoming year and he is also a first round pick.
What do you like about him? What are his plus tools? The best I can see is that he's got good plate discipline. Besides that he's decidedly average or worse in every facet of baseball as far as I can tell. I don't think that's enough. And he's not even young anymore.
Wow. This is a mess. He's not young anymore?? He's 22 in AAA. 22 year olds are just getting drafted out of college this summer. He is 2-3 years younger than his level. He's hitting for average, always has a great eye, and he's playing a respectable CF from every report Ive read. What more do you want? Babe Ruth power and 70 stolen bases? Nobody's saying this is the next Bryce Harper here but he's still solid prospect.
I checked he was something like 38th in both wrc+ and woba for contest. 111 isn't a positive for a guy you are hoping to be a difference maker. If you are okay with him merely being a good platoon OF/Dejesus type this fine but that's not what people are expecting/wanting
I checked he was something like 38th in both wrc+ and woba for contest. 111 isn't a positive for a guy you are hoping to be a difference maker. If you are okay with him merely being a good platoon OF/Dejesus type this fine but that's not what people are expecting/wanting
Thats actually exactly what Im expecting though. A platoon partner for Lagares.
but if Nimmo wasn't a first round pick, no one would be talking about him.
I highly doubt he'd be a top 50 on BA currently with multiple appearances and consistently in the top 100 if it was only because he was a first round pick. Cecchini was nowhere near a list until this year and upcoming year and he is also a first round pick.
What do you like about him? What are his plus tools? The best I can see is that he's got good plate discipline. Besides that he's decidedly average or worse in every facet of baseball as far as I can tell. I don't think that's enough. And he's not even young anymore.
Wow. This is a mess. He's not young anymore?? He's 22 in AAA. 22 year olds are just getting drafted out of college this summer. He is 2-3 years younger than his level. He's hitting for average, always has a great eye, and he's playing a respectable CF from every report Ive read. What more do you want? Babe Ruth power and 70 stolen bases? Nobody's saying this is the next Bryce Harper here but he's still solid prospect.
What are his plus tools? Besides great eye you haven't named one.
And you'd hope a 22 year old would be developed enough to hit a home run or two ever sixty games.
I checked he was something like 38th in both wrc+ and woba for contest. 111 isn't a positive for a guy you are hoping to be a difference maker. If you are okay with him merely being a good platoon OF/Dejesus type this fine but that's not what people are expecting/wanting
Thats actually exactly what Im expecting though. A platoon partner for Lagares.
And if that's your want/expectation then you have a good shot at getting that but I think the vast majority are expecting a core player, "another Conforto", maybe even an all-star.
Still think he has a chance to be a good ball player. It can all click out of nowhere. Wally may jumpstart him. Anything can happen.
Since you mention DeJesus. Surprised him and David Murphy have gotten no mention. Sure Parra is a better player, but would anyone really have been upset if the Mets gave up non prospects and received those two to add to the bench? Very underrated and under the radar trades I thought.
tools?? What are Smith's PLUS tools?? Not every prospect is a 5 tool talent. Some players just do a lot of things well. Nimmo's hit tool seems to be developing pretty well and might be a "plus". His defense has always been solid. His power might yet still be developing and it might not but as a leadoff type Im not too concerned about it.
I checked he was something like 38th in both wrc+ and woba for contest. 111 isn't a positive for a guy you are hoping to be a difference maker. If you are okay with him merely being a good platoon OF/Dejesus type this fine but that's not what people are expecting/wanting
Thats actually exactly what Im expecting though. A platoon partner for Lagares.
And if that's your want/expectation then you have a good shot at getting that but I think the vast majority are expecting a core player, "another Conforto", maybe even an all-star.
We could be off on our perceptions but I really don't think thats the perception around here. I really doubt people are looking at Nimmo as a future all-star anymore. I see solid player that could contribute but not some all-star at all.
I checked he was something like 38th in both wrc+ and woba for contest. 111 isn't a positive for a guy you are hoping to be a difference maker. If you are okay with him merely being a good platoon OF/Dejesus type this fine but that's not what people are expecting/wanting
Thats actually exactly what Im expecting though. A platoon partner for Lagares.
So you think we'd always be talking about a guy who is projected as a platoon player if he wasn't a first rounder?
Still think he has a chance to be a good ball player. It can all click out of nowhere. Wally may jumpstart him. Anything can happen.
Since you mention DeJesus. Surprised him and David Murphy have gotten no mention. Sure Parra is a better player, but would anyone really have been upset if the Mets gave up non prospects and received those two to add to the bench? Very underrated and under the radar trades I thought.
The Mets have enhanced their inconsistent offense with the additions of Juan Uribe and Kelly Johnson but still have their sights clearly on a big bat, with Justin Upton, Carlos Gonzalez, Carlos Gomez, Gerardo Parra and Jay Bruce among the better targets.
I think the VAST majority of Mets fans are expecting Brandon Nimmo to be an above average every day player who hits 20+ homers, steals bases (this 100% isn't going to happen) and posts a big OBP. Cecchini is having a better offensive season and he's a SS and is younger and nobody is projecting stardom for Cecchini.
Dude, seriously you are a fucking joke. We all laughed and I admitted my mistake looking at the numbers. Who the fuck are you anyway? Where were you over the last few years when HH, Arc, Dan, and others were in the weeds talking baseball? Fucking bandwagon fan thats wants to join the bus now? Going to target me and make swipes at me daily now? Fuck off. You haven't earned your stripes here. Not even close.
I think the VAST majority of Mets fans are expecting Brandon Nimmo to be an above average every day player who hits 20+ homers, steals bases (this 100% isn't going to happen) and posts a big OBP. Cecchini is having a better offensive season and he's a SS and is younger and nobody is projecting stardom for Cecchini.
Well then Id be shocked? People here are expecting 20+ homeruns from Nimmo right now??? Wow. Not disagreeing with you but as a social experiment anybody here agree with that? Is that how you all are viewing Nimmo currently??
is underrated. If I told you guys "we traded Wheeler for a guy who finished top 10 in MVP voting twice in the last 3 seasons, had hit 30+ homers 3 times and will be 29 for the entire 2016 season (and under contract for 2017) both at below market rates, almost everyone would be happy.
RE: And if you don't want be be called out daily ...
Lol. If you don't think you are targeting me daily here over the last week or so you are absolutely delusional. GTFO. Thanks for showing up for the playoff run. How convenient for you.
Brewers would reportedly need to be 'blown away' to deal Gomez
is underrated. If I told you guys "we traded Wheeler for a guy who finished top 10 in MVP voting twice in the last 3 seasons, had hit 30+ homers 3 times and will be 29 for the entire 2016 season (and under contract for 2017) both at below market rates, almost everyone would be happy.
I do it and and make it work. Bruce and Granderson are locks for two OF spots. Conforto, and whoever splits CF with Granderson can rotate it around and we should be fine.
about Bruce is playing in Cincinnati and that short porch but he's still a good enough player that I role the dice and not think twice.
Side comment, I was talking to a die hard Cincinnati fan the other day and I mentioned Bruce and he sort of just rolled his eyes. Had more of a "good riddance" attitude about him. Said he is VERY streaky.
In terms of quality of player he is very good and I think Wheeler is fair value given the contract. His profile (feast or famine lefty who K's a lot) is inconveniently similar to Duda and he may take Conforto out of the lineup, but he's still a good enough player that it could be worth it. Just may be better deals out there.
You just tried a Vegas performance comparison of a player that hasn't been there a week. You'll say almost anything to support your position. No matter how far fetched.
As far as Bruce and 30 homers. I don't have his home/road splits but his home ballpark is a bandbox. Again at his dollar value he's a good player. I don't necessarily think 'underrated' is a label he warrants but hey that's your opinion.
Votto gets on base as well as anyone in baseball. Who cares how he does it. Dude is an awesome player.
Wheeler for Bruce? Sign me up. Still don't know how that OF alignment works but I would love to land Bruce. Has a team option for a reasonable 13M in 2017, IIRC as well.. so he'd be far from a rental. Underrated player because of his crappy 2014.
RE: I don't need to target you. You bring it on yourself.
You just tried a Vegas performance comparison of a player that hasn't been there a week. You'll say almost anything to support your position. No matter how far fetched.
As far as Bruce and 30 homers. I don't have his home/road splits but his home ballpark is a bandbox. Again at his dollar value he's a good player. I don't necessarily think 'underrated' is a label he warrants but hey that's your opinion.
If you actually read what I posted, his AAA numbers meant nothing nor did it support what I was saying. We all know Nimmo Just got promoted to Vegas. And I especially knew Dan knew that. Wasn't trying to trick anyone. lol. But keep being the complete imbecile you are and coming after me like a scorned teenager that stole your girlfriend.
is an irrational one. It seems every time I've seen him play the Mets, I've seen him strikeout. I know this can't be true, yet that is what my I see in my mind's eye when I read his name
RE: I've got to be nearing year 20 of posting here.
2010- 5.1 WAR
2011- 3.0 WAR
2012 2.5 WAR
2013 4.2 WAR
2014 -0.8 WAR (battled a knee issue all year)
2015 1.9 WAR (on pace for 3.0 WAR per ZIPS)
He's 9th in wRC+ amongst RF's this season
He's 9th in wOBA
He's 8th in homers
9th in OBP
9th in RBI
2008-2013 115 OPS+
2014 was horrid
2015 125 OPS+
By WAR value he's already been worth 15.5 million in 2015 and has been worth 30+ twice in his career. He's signed through 2017 at 12.5 and 13 million where guys like Upton are going to get 100+
Mets post's say 5 years ago here were few and far in between. If you started one, before the mods laid down the law about Yankee and Met fans posting on each others threads,you posted and got heat and ridicule. Met fans the few, did fire back and instigate at times. However, today, BBI has evolved into the best site on the Internet IMO to talk intelligent Met baseball
You said it as part of your argument. Now you disown it? I don't think you were trying to trick anyone. You're just so myopic you get excited and anything that supports your position becomes gospel. It's called grasping at straws. You're quite good at it. Not surprising with all the practice you have. I get it you're an optimistic Met fan. That's not a bad thing. It's just cloying when taken to such extremes. You're a good foil though for the reasonable, realistic Mets fans. Keep up the good work. Such as it is.
By WAR value he's already been worth 15.5 million in 2015 etc...
As I said I think he's a good dollar value. I'll stand by my opinion he isn't a star player or dynamic. Above average regular? Absolutley. Do I want him if the price is fair? I do.
kick in some cash and deal Ellsbury? Gardner makes Ellsbury expendable in CF and they have to hate that contract. Maybe cut it in half and send them Montero and Flores (2b?). Maybe Wheeler if they eat a ton of money.
Ellsbury is a guy I thought the Mets should have signed, though not at that contract for that many years.
RE: By WAR value he's already been worth 15.5 million in 2015 etc...
As I said I think he's a good dollar value. I'll stand by my opinion he isn't a star player or dynamic. Above average regular? Absolutley. Do I want him if the price is fair? I do.
I'm not suggesting he's a superstar. I'm suggesting his resume is better than people are giving him credit for. He'd be the best offensive player on the Mets (not including Wright until we see Wright)
You said it as part of your argument. Now you disown it? I don't think you were trying to trick anyone. You're just so myopic you get excited and anything that supports your position becomes gospel. It's called grasping at straws. You're quite good at it. Not surprising with all the practice you have. I get it you're an optimistic Met fan. That's not a bad thing. It's just cloying when taken to such extremes. You're a good foil though for the reasonable, realistic Mets fans. Keep up the good work. Such as it is.
I IMMEDIATELY laughed and said my bad. Owned up to it almost immediately as I was just scanning his numbers briefly. I could have also said his wRC+ was 165 over the course of his time St. Lucie last year also which would have strengthened my case further but I didn't. If you actually took the time to read what I was saying rather than nitpicking one little aspect that I immediately apologized for, I was simply saying that he has held his own with the bat.
pj.. the Mets and Yankees would never deal with each other in any capacity beyond dealing spare parts. Francesa talks about this often but he's correct. The Mets would never ever send the Yankees a young pitcher who could turn into a superstar across town or vice versa. The risk that they'd never live it down and be reminded of it every day is too great for either team.
I know it sounds silly and like a bad reason not to do a deal if one made sense but that's just how it is.
kick in some cash and deal Ellsbury? Gardner makes Ellsbury expendable in CF and they have to hate that contract. Maybe cut it in half and send them Montero and Flores (2b?). Maybe Wheeler if they eat a ton of money.
Ellsbury is a guy I thought the Mets should have signed, though not at that contract for that many years.
Isn't Gardner the everyday LF and Ellsbury the every day CF?? Why would they trade one of their best players heading towards the playoffs in first place??
giving Tejada a rest. Didn't think i'd ever write that sentence this season and not worry about getting ridiculed
I figured this would be the case. Flores will start every game at second against left-handed pitchers and move around giving other players a day off here and there at SS, ect.
the ball does fly out, except for Uribe's shot which I thought was out of Citi Field off the bat
If you look at the replay closely it look like it did hit the yellow. I think it actually was a homerun but we were already celebrating and walking off the field. No need to look at it. lol.
Unfortunately that isn't setting the bar too high these days barring Granderson no one is thriving. I really don't think we're that far apart on how we see Bruce. You like him a little more than I do.
why I signed up 14 years ago, to talk sports, along the way, I lost my way and got involved with stuff that wasn't sports. I was a jerk but it stopped being fun having 38 pissing matches going on at the same time. I really forgot who I was friends with and who I was fighting with. Thanks for listening, no more NFT's for me, all Mets ll Giants all of the time
have been an abomination but this is yet another guys prone to streakiness. Id still add him if the price was reasonable and hope he catches fire again shortly.
Misses a LOT of bats and is lefty. Hasn't been able to stay healthy but 199 major league innings 219 k's. Command is a major issue but 9.9 k/9 lefties don't grow on trees. Was worth 1.5 WAR in half a season as a starter in 2013. Career vs. lefties .202/.296/.327 2.83 FIP
Misses a LOT of bats and is lefty. Hasn't been able to stay healthy but 199 major league innings 219 k's. Command is a major issue but 9.9 k/9 lefties don't grow on trees. Was worth 1.5 WAR in half a season as a starter in 2013. Career vs. lefties .202/.296/.327 2.83 FIP
WAY more than a comp pick. He's probably approaching top 50 lists if he keeps this up this season and into the offseason. Remember that most of the big MLB prospects go in the top 15 or so. Your talking about a pick in the 30-50 range. Montero, Rosario, and any one of our name prospects has more value than that.
RE: I wouldn't want to deal Fulmer for an Upton rental
Joel Sherman 49s
as @jaysonst said #Tigers have reversed and told teams they will listen on Price, Cespedes, etc. Changes face of marke
Oh man. Cespedes would be the ultimate rental.
Rental is the key word. Have a couple days after world series to resign him. Then he is gone for good.
I get that but as far as impact bat we could add right now? I think Cespedes would be the biggest addition that could help us THIS year. He'd probably cost less than Gomez, Bruce, and others as well because of his rental status.
I come to accept we are going to get a bat
Headhunter : 3:45 pm : link : reply
and we are going to lose a player(s) that are going to cause us pain. I'm preparing myself
Could be good news if it's the right bat and we don't give up the farm...
be absolutely stunned dealing Wheeler for Upton right now, Fulmer wouldn't shock me. Nor would an expanded deal.
No way we'd give up Wheeler for any rental. I think we'd part with Fulmer for Cespedes but for an abysmal Upton who has been worst player in baseball bad for almost two months? I think he'd cost less personally.
and we are going to lose a player(s) that are going to cause us pain. I'm preparing myself
I normally like to take a long view of things and not be shortsighted, but you've got Harvey, DeGrom, Syndergaard, and Matz under team control for a while. Would you really miss Fulmer?
I'd give up Fulmer in an Upton deal but you have to tell me that the Mets are serious about signing him long-term. If it's going to be a pure rental, I totally change my tune on it.
has let me down more than Cuddyer. I was chirping during Spring Training that he was a steal and I expect 25 home runs 90 rbi, I was so sure
He's been a huge let down for me too obviously but the story isn't completely written. He could still be a useful platoon player, clutch bat off the bench in the playoffs. The cruel joke is he was actually heating up at the time of his knee injury, but thats life as a Mets fan.
as far as overall expectations but even in a horrible year filled with ice cold streaks where he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, he still hit 8 homeruns and had a wRC+ of 95 in roughly half a season.
He was also having his best month in July hitting .310 over 10 games, with 2 homeruns.
We expected WAY more but if you tilt your expectations now as a guy thats going to replace Campbell in a couple weeks thats still a massive upgrade for the bench. He's also owned lefties for his career. With a pretty lefty heavy lineup I think he might still have some use for this team.
as far as overall expectations but even in a horrible year filled with ice cold streaks where he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, he still hit 8 homeruns and had a wRC+ of 95 in roughly half a season.
He was also having his best month in July hitting .310 over 10 games, with 2 homeruns.
We expected WAY more but if you tilt your expectations now as a guy thats going to replace Campbell in a couple weeks thats still a massive upgrade for the bench. He's also owned lefties for his career. With a pretty lefty heavy lineup I think he might still have some use for this team.
RE: RE: I come to accept we are going to get a bat
and we are going to lose a player(s) that are going to cause us pain. I'm preparing myself
I normally like to take a long view of things and not be shortsighted, but you've got Harvey, DeGrom, Syndergaard, and Matz under team control for a while. Would you really miss Fulmer?
Just seems like too much value for a struggling Upton regardless of that however.
Wheeler and Cecchini to Detroit, Price to the Dodgers, Puig to the Mets, see it's that easy! #Mets
We talked about 3 teams yesterday (I think it was Shecky?) but he said our FO just isn't creative enough - I actually think something like that makes a lot of sense though. Though I'd want to swap in Nimmo for Cecchini.
Wheeler and Cecchini to Detroit, Price to the Dodgers, Puig to the Mets, see it's that easy! #Mets
We talked about 3 teams yesterday (I think it was Shecky?) but he said our FO just isn't creative enough - I actually think something like that makes a lot of sense though. Though I'd want to swap in Nimmo for Cecchini.
As would I but we have enough pitching to roll the dice on an UBER talent like Puig. This team could use some swag, some flavor, some gusto amongst the position players. Signed through 2019. Fun to watch. DO IT!
and we are going to lose a player(s) that are going to cause us pain. I'm preparing myself
I normally like to take a long view of things and not be shortsighted, but you've got Harvey, DeGrom, Syndergaard, and Matz under team control for a while. Would you really miss Fulmer?
An asset is worth what an asset is worth. Fulmer is not less valuable simply because we have lots of good SPs already. He is more tradable because of that reason, but not less valuable.
Also, Fulmer might not debut until 2017. 2018 if he gets hurt (remember, he's only 22).
I'd rather deal Wheeler than Fulmer. It'd be nice to have another bigtime pitcher come up who is a few years behind on the arb/fa clock than the rest of the pitchers.
Would Wheeler/Fulmer have similiar value around to other teams?
Mike Puma @NYPost_Mets
Was told the Mets aren't in on Cespedes at this point.
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Jon Heyman @JonHeymanCBS
david price on market could aid rangers, as dodgers & others will look closely at price now. (texas not in rental market)
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Jon Heyman @JonHeymanCBS
after phils yet again ask for severino or judge, yanks will talk to tigers on price. cbsprt.co/1MVdbsM
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Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1
[Rajai] Davis plays all 3 OF spots, can start for Grandy v. tough LH, adds speed element off bench #Mets lack. #Tigers
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Jayson Stark @jaysonst
Third club in #Dodgers-#Marlins believed to be a team that winds up with Michael Morse. He has no apparent fit on the Dodgers roster.
Jerry CrasnickVerified account
@jcrasnick
A MLB exec on Gerardo Parra: "I wonder if the Brewers over-played their hand on him. I just expected him to be gone by now.''
I could see that because I don't think anyone out there is going to view him as an impact player. And obviously anyone looking for an impact rental has bigger fish to go after.
Jerry Crasnick @jcrasnick 12s13 seconds ago
#Mets leverage with Parra and Will Venable enhanced by other deals. #Royals and #Angels no longer have openings for LH OF bats.
I could see that because I don't think anyone out there is going to view him as an impact player. And obviously anyone looking for an impact rental has bigger fish to go after.
Thats why I thought his value would fall by Friday. I think we are going to see a lot of movement at the last minute this year.
I said earlier and re-iterate I hope the trade carousel comes to a halt and Milwaukee is left empty handed. Now Meisner 'bullet' has been spent so that potential deal has evaporated..
and Tigers have some level of pressure to deal their guys. Though, if the Brewers are of the belief this is the real Parra they could always offer him the QO. Gomez on the other hand, no reason to change their ask.
looks like we should be able to land someone, will just come down to how much Sandy is willing to give/who they think fits best. Gomez has long been #1 on that list for me but seems like the Brewers aren't going to their ask for him from anyone. I'd still guess Parra is the most likely acquisition.
stinks and Gsellman is a lesser prospect than Meisner so if that's what the brewers do they screwed up.
We are assuming if the Brewers overplayed their hand and the price drops. I don't think they have a prayer at getting Fulmer and out of the first round picks Nimmo is the only one they'd have a shot at. Don't think Sandy does that either. Gsellman/Cessa and Reynolds. Take it or leave it. Something like that.
If your giving up a coupe guys like that it ends up worth it either way IMO. How much worst could he be? I think he'd at least contribute in the OF mix and give us an intriguing option at the top of the lineup. If he goes cold you just go in a different direction in the offseason. Not going to cry over a Gsellman type but Nimmo I might.
think if they offered Montero for Zobrist, push comes to shove he's moved for Parra.
Sure, I agree. But if Sandy ends up with more leverage than anticipated maybe he can come up with a lesser combination. I don't know. Wont be terribly upset if we lost Montero either.
[quote]Sure but now we are hearing that many teams are no longer in the Parra sweepstakes.[/quote[
There is a general feeling this has become more of a buyers market. I haven't read or seen a reference to the Parra situation specifically. As usual you craft the dialogue to suit your position.
like Rosario who is a sexy name, is cracking top 100 and 50 boards, but might be a bit overrated. His projection is based on his tools but it really hasn't materialized yet. He also has Cecchini above him and a million SS behind him. Wouldn't hurt the Mets at all IMO.
[quote]Sure but now we are hearing that many teams are no longer in the Parra sweepstakes.[/quote[
There is a general feeling this has become more of a buyers market. I haven't read or seen a reference to the Parra situation specifically. As usual you craft the dialogue to suit your position.
I guess somebody as brain dead as you would have trouble understanding
@jcrasnick
#Mets leverage with Parra and Will Venable enhanced by other deals. #Royals and #Angels no longer have openings for LH OF bats.
I'd prefer to move a piece like Rosario for Parra instead of another arm. I readily admit ranking young positional talent in the pipeline is guesswork on my part.
Wheeler wasn't hurt his entire pro career. His command has never been even average. He's 26 in May, his command is extremely unlikely to suddenly be much better.
Reddick 3-4 triple short of the cycle
Cespedes 2-4 home run
Bruce 1-4 rbi
Gomez 1-4 rbi, double, run
Wheeler 81 Minor league games 4.0 BB/9
deGrom minors majors 2.2
Harvey 2.2
Thor 2.6, and so far 2.1
Matz (minors) 3.0
So he's pitched with a bum elbow for 5 years? I'm not buying that sorry.
Agreed. Though for Gomez I would, hip concern and all. Gomez could help put the 2015 team in the playoffs and beyond
Is there precedent for TJ surgery improving a guy's control?
Nimmo, Cessa and a 3rd piece for Bruce and Phillips do it
Reddick isn't a rental, signed through next year
He's still just 22 years old for another month.
Matz didn't hit the majors until 24, Harvey 23, deGrom 26 and Wheeler 23 and of the 5 only Thor hasn't had TJ.
And as his manager describes him he throws 97mph with a hook from hell, if he harnesses his potential I can see him with the highest upside.
Beccerra pulled too. wasn't he? Looked like it from the box score.
Reddick has experience in CF and LF. If we are limited to CF only then we likely aren't adding a bat at all. Parra's CF defense also has horrendous marks the past 2 seasons so given his price I'm not sure his position even helps
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was pulled early last night. Haven't seen any update ala injury, rest, trade etc. I'd deal Herrera for Reddick if he's the big piece. Reddick is exactly what the doctor ordered (without giving up one of the pitchers). Huge personality, players hard, top 10 RF in almost every category and good salary.
Beccerra pulled too. wasn't he? Looked like it from the box score.
Yup he was pulled early too. Herrera and Becerra for a Bruce or Gomez i'd be fine with. For a rental I'd absolutely puke.
The defensive grading on Parra doesn't really sway me. I put close to zero stock in that stuff. I have a hard time believing a GG OFer would suddenly be a disaster just 2 years later at age 28.
he'll make that Dickey trade even more lopsided.
he has to be top 10 prospect right now, maybe top 3 position player.
vs the top 20 mlb prospects he's batting .343 in 111 plate appearances (if I read that right).
I would not trade him and Herrera for a rental.
Im going to be sad as shit if 2013 was peak Harvey. Im really counting on him to be an ace next season. But I'm also counting on a carousel where one of these kids is always down with TJS.
The defensive grading on Parra doesn't really sway me. I put close to zero stock in that stuff. I have a hard time believing a GG OFer would suddenly be a disaster just 2 years later at age 28.
But Parra is a rental with a very high price which you just said you didn't want. Which CF is a non-rental that will cost anything less than top guys that also represents a clear upgrade? Horrendous will Venable? It's Gomez or bust basically by your rules. Parra has had a great season and tons of teams are in. I'm not giving up 2 big prospects (or even 1 TOP) guy for .5 of Parra. Seems very silly to me. They already turned down Meisner for him, Law had Meisner as the Mets #6 prospect. I'm not huge on Nimmo but Nimmo+ for half a year of Parra would be disappointing
Matz is interesting, and it is a big if, long term health wise, offers something even harder to find - power starting lefty. there are just so few in the league
Right now, Harvey is 3rd on the team
Wheeler clearly has the arm, but until the control issues get corrected, he is going to expend too much energy and deal with too many runners. Him at no 5 however is ridiculous
I'm still the only one who sees these rental prices and wonders why Murphy hasn't been shipped off already...
Matz is interesting, and it is a big if, long term health wise, offers something even harder to find - power starting lefty. there are just so few in the league
Right now, Harvey is 3rd on the team
Wheeler clearly has the arm, but until the control issues get corrected, he is going to expend too much energy and deal with too many runners. Him at no 5 however is ridiculous
What? How would me ranking Wheeler 5th be "ridiculous" given what you just said? Who would be 5th then?
I'm still the only one who sees these rental prices and wonders why Murphy hasn't been shipped off already...
While Phillips is merely a dump I still think he's the type reenergized in a pennant race with a new team. If ti brings down the price, do it up.
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Clearly the Mets aren't operating that way if they've spoken to CIN about Bruce. I just wouldn't be thrilled about either sending Conforto back or having to put someone out of position in CF.
The defensive grading on Parra doesn't really sway me. I put close to zero stock in that stuff. I have a hard time believing a GG OFer would suddenly be a disaster just 2 years later at age 28.
But Parra is a rental with a very high price which you just said you didn't want. Which CF is a non-rental that will cost anything less than top guys that also represents a clear upgrade? Horrendous will Venable? It's Gomez or bust basically by your rules. Parra has had a great season and tons of teams are in. I'm not giving up 2 big prospects (or even 1 TOP) guy for .5 of Parra. Seems very silly to me. They already turned down Meisner for him, Law had Meisner as the Mets #6 prospect. I'm not huge on Nimmo but Nimmo+ for half a year of Parra would be disappointing
LOL, dude.. there are no "rules"
I never said I "didn't want a rental" I said I wouldn't give up Herrera for one. Big difference.
Second of all, yes.. I think Gomez is the best fit. Doesn't mean I would be out on everyone else. I am just curious as to what happens with Conforto or Granderson if we acquire a CO. I think the biggest way to improve the team is to add someone who doesn't require sending Conforto down. Which yeah, narrows it down to Gomez or Parra. Doesn't mean I wouldn't want Bruce, Reddick or Cespedes if we could get any of them. In fact, I've been very much in favor of Bruce this entire time.
I'm still the only one who sees these rental prices and wonders why Murphy hasn't been shipped off already...
No, I wonder the same thing, now that there are MULTIPLE cheaper and possibly better options available.
I suggested weeks ago, that whether the Mets were buyers or sellers at the deadline, Murphy should be gone. I really hope they do not offer him the QO after the season if he's still here.
Is there a better 1-3 right now?
I'd be all for it I just don't see the Mets adding payroll like that.
That's why this team NEEDS to make the playoffs this year. They need each of these kids on the public stage, they need to be the talk of baseball for at least a week in October. Leading to a ton of talk all offseason. You can't buy that energy and PR, oh wait - yes you can :)
Secondly, he immediately makes Murphy available to recoupe a prospect. Third, Herrera can now be used as a chip, you have that flexibility. Imagine what can be acquired for Wheeler, Herrera and Fulmer in the offseason!?!?!?
Phillips production would still provide you $10-$15mm in "value" according to WAR, with the potential of more with little downside risk of less. That happens to be his contract cost. So far from an albatross contract to be taking on in a typical salary dump.
Team is an INSTANT contender this year, next year and the following year.
As for the OP question, I genuinely have no idea and I think that's the craziest thing about this rotation. A good case can be made for any of the top 3 right now. By the end of this season they will have possibly compiled 2 ROY trophies, 1 all star game start, 1 all star game record inning, 2 top 5 CY vote finishes, and all 3 may have career ERA's under 3. Matz hasn't pitched enough the majors yet to be in consideration.
Secondly, he immediately makes Murphy available to recoupe a prospect. Third, Herrera can now be used as a chip, you have that flexibility. Imagine what can be acquired for Wheeler, Herrera and Fulmer in the offseason!?!?!?
Phillips production would still provide you $10-$15mm in "value" according to WAR, with the potential of more with little downside risk of less. That happens to be his contract cost. So far from an albatross contract to be taking on in a typical salary dump.
Team is an INSTANT contender this year, next year and the following year.
I agree with you, I would be completely in favor of it. Could you realistically see the Mets taking on money like that though? I would be absolutely shocked. This would also involve a little creativity which.. we know isn't exactly the forte of this FO.
Link - ( New Window )
Phillips would be BECAUSE he would bring down the talent price on Bruce. He'd be a salary dump. If that allowed Herrera to be the centerpiece of a Bruce deal it's a no-brainer.
1 Harvey - why? Simply because we already know he has proven he is Cy Young caliber and dominant. Filthy stuff with one of the best mental makeups for a pitcher imaginable.
2 DeGrom - great stuff, track record is being proven. Not the same as Harvey, but mental makeup to trust in a game 7
3 Thor - ridiculous stuff to go with the upside of his youth. Scary to think might he might become when he puts it all together and has learned how to pitch. Can't crack my top two for simple lack of mental makeup needed in the biggest of games - though he seems to have improved leaps and bounds there.
4 Matz - completely unproven other than two great starts. Very good stuff, but doesn't have the control nor command of the above three. Bulldog attitude is off the charts, but will always have a shoulder concern for me.
5 Wheeler - I've never been a big fan of his around here, so this is an easy one for me. I've always called him John Maine... Due to trade value, I'd keep Niese over him as a 5th starter personally.
Michael Fulmer last 9 starts at Double-A
53 1/3 IP
0.68 ERA
61 K, 9 BB
1 HR allowed
Do you agree with the article Dan?
Michael Fulmer last 9 starts at Double-A
53 1/3 IP
0.68 ERA
61 K, 9 BB
1 HR allowed
WOW, knew he was on a roll, but had no clue his numbers were looking THAT good the last two months. PROMOTE that man!!
2) Harvey- His repertoire of pitches and command are rare. Tough mentality. Wants the ball.
3) DeGrom- Natural movement on his ball is electric. Aggressive mindset to attack hitters.
I'll stop there for me Wheeler is a notch below these three and I need to see more of Matz and his durability could be a problem.
Three legit aces on one staff is crazy. I don't know if I've ever seen a group of five as good as these guys can be if/when we get everyone healthy and in the rotation.
makes more sense lol sorry.
I also wonder if he's really 24.
But. The article itself. Not on it's cover - the actual meat and potatoes of what's written - you find the article fair? Not looking to debate it since no one is right or wrong, just asking your opinion. Since you are probably one of the most knowledgeable Mets fan here, and one of the most frustrated on the lack of spending.
You put a lot of smart and interesting stuff out Shecky but you'll need a shovel to sell this one.
2. Sandy claims they have money to spend, but to this point they 100% have not. I don't see how fans can continue to "buy" this until proven otherwise.
3. The claim was made if the fans come out the payroll would go up. Then the team themselves claims 17% increase in sales yet (again it's not 7/31 yet) the math works out to the Mets actually SAVING money on the season for Mejia+Wright vs. the 2 trades.
4. Wilpons aren't going anywhere.
I also wonder if he's really 24.
It's a little scary, his numbers are trending down since 2013. He might need a change of scenery but his cost could come down.
I guess when you go from playing in Cuba to living the high life, it would turn anyone a little nuts.
What Im less impressed by is the end of that article. I just cant fault the Mets for not trading for Tulo, Reyes, or Cargo. Those guys are huge injury risks. The only available guy who really gets my juices flowing is Gomez, who could require a Lagares plus a really high end guy (Matz, Conforto etc), plus. You just cant speak to any potential trade without knowing the particulars, and with injured guys, the extent of the injury.
He obviously doesn't have unlimited money at his disposal and with this pitching staff if he builds it right this team can be set for championship type potential for years to come. Better he is cautious and tries to get it right than forcing things at this point and blowing it. He may have only one really good chance at getting this right.
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I just read an article about how absolutely hated he is by teammates, but that talent.
I also wonder if he's really 24.
It's a little scary, his numbers are trending down since 2013. He might need a change of scenery but his cost could come down.
Puig was worth 5.3 fWAR last year. Still roughly 3fWAR this year if he played all season.
I'm a circus lover, what can I say. Visited their museum in Sarasota many a times...
Torrag - So no one is buying my bullshit still lol? I just bought a boatload of manure and have no one left to sell too. DAMN.
Other than Z, perhaps I am the last Mets fan standing thinking we are in a very good place right now. I've been heartbroken each of the last twice this week though, so I am getting more and more frustrated like everyone else.
B-Mets manager Pedro Lopez said. "Unfortunately, after he got hurt he wasn't the same. I don't think the jumps and the routes were the same. I guess, due to the injury he couldn't reach that last gear like he used to. I'll tell you, he did a good job. I think his at-bats were better. I think he was growing as a hitter, as a player overall."
and
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"When you got knee problems, that's going to effect you because you can't use your lower half the way that you're supposed to, and he's still afraid a little bit," Natera said. "You can see it when he's running too. He's not the same runner, even in the outfield. You don't see the same jump because he knee is not 100 percent. No doubt, that will effect his power a little bit. At least now, maybe because of that, he uses his hands much better."
Our recent moves make a playoff berth a reasonable possibility. Those are good things.
We're still a legit middle of the order bat away from being true contenders. That isn't easy to find without compromising the organization.
BTW Sandy seemed a little annoyed that Tulo was dealt to Toronto. Guess work here but he probably feels he had the best offer on the table. We know the owners lied to Tulo about consulting him on destination. With his health the last place he would have chosen is the worst turf in the league.
Debating between "down" or "disappointed" really is just semantics isn't it?
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there a difference between being down or "not excited" and being really disappointed they won't spend money to help the team? EVERYONE agreed they needed a bat.
Debating between "down" or "disappointed" really is just semantics isn't it?
Totally disagree. Excited about aspects of the team, disappointed ownership refuses to do more. If that's your rationale the Mets could do NOTHING all off-season and you would be happy because of the young pitching. If that's your rationale why do we even talk about making additions or needs?
Bartolo, the great mentor of the kids. "even Bartolo", as if it was a surprise. And what has he learned? "To have fun" lol
You flat out said you would be very disappointed if Sandy didn't add a bat. Talk about back tracking.
They haven't added a single dollar in payroll. You don't find that to be unusual for a playoff contending team with one of the lowest payrolls in baseball with CLEAR needs? How about some bench speed? A second lefty? No needs at all?
I am sure they think they are fooling the majority of the fans into thinking adding Uribe, KJ and Clippard has meant "spending" but as we all know, they actually didn't spend a time.
And this doesn't mean they have to go out and just dole out some 150M contract just to do it.. but even in smaller trades, if they'd be more willing to take on money, the cost would be less in terms of talent. It does make a difference.
2015 Mets are 15th/15 in runs scored. A bit different don't you think?
There was one asset left which could give them $$ to stay alive while the RE market sorted out and to cover Madoff costs. That was the Mets. So they extracted money from the Mets. Essentially took out loans against the Mets/SNY assets and used the loan proceeds to cover whammy #1-2. But it was a real perfect storm for the Wilpons, since the Mets were already in a lot of debt because of Citifield. The timing of Citifield was really whammy #3, because it meant that the RE/Madoff debts they put onto the Mets rendered the team highly leveraged. And like a lot of highly leveraged companies, the goal has been essentially to stay alive long enough for growth and inflation and a bit of debt servicing to whittle away at the debt.
Be careful HH, I was called a racist for saying MUCH less than that!!
We also strengthened the bullpen, Mejia suspension or not, which I didn't even anticipate. Acquiring another teams closer who will be available for the postseason was a nice move.
Kirk, Conforto, Tejada, Flores, and Johnson are fighting for a couple positions and most are playing pretty well lately. Not sure if OF and SS is even that huge of a need anymore and those were really the only two positions we could upgrade.
It sounds like the prices on some the remaining players are exorbitant so if this is what we have, this is what we have. Im not in the least bit upset about it. I would have been pissed if we did NOTHING, but we absolutely improved the roster.
Uribe/Johnson are solid enough upgrades but 15/15 in runs scored need/needs more.
2015 Mets are 15th/15 in runs scored. A bit different don't you think?
Mets were 8th in scoring last year and have played the first half without many crucial pieces. TDA, Murphy, Wright, Uribe, Johnson, Conforto could easily give us what last years team was giving us as we head into the playoffs. And you know that wasn't my point at all anyway. Some of the earlier Giants teams had Posey and Panda and not a whole lot else and they won championships. Im sure every Giant fan, especially during their first run, was saying... "Oh Shit, I wish we had another bat" As they entered the playoffs . Pitching wins in the playoffs period.
Uribe/Johnson are solid enough upgrades but 15/15 in runs scored need/needs more.
It isn't a push if Mejia isn't available for the postseason even if they are equal players.
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and Mejia is a push by any metric/stat
Uribe/Johnson are solid enough upgrades but 15/15 in runs scored need/needs more.
It isn't a push if Mejia isn't available for the postseason even if they are equal players.
That only means something IF they make the playoffs, I'm talking about getting there.
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teams thought they were a TRUE BAT away from being a contender as well.
You flat out said you would be very disappointed if Sandy didn't add a bat. Talk about back tracking.
They added two bats? Like I said, Uribe AND Johnson was on par with adding a Zobrist. Would I like another? Yeah I would. I think Parra would still be a nice add in the outfield but we bolstered the team already.
Reyes would be the perfect bridge to Cecchini/Rosario. The deal would likely be dead money in the back-end, but we'd be better today and 2016.
Zobrist isn't the kind of bat we're talking about anyway. Nor is Parra. If those guys are Sandy's 'bullet' we've been sold a bill of goods ...again. Except many of us aren't buying. Then there are others that slurp up anything the team spews on the sidewalk gratefully. Right Z?
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In comment 12391023 DanMetroMan said:
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and Mejia is a push by any metric/stat
Uribe/Johnson are solid enough upgrades but 15/15 in runs scored need/needs more.
It isn't a push if Mejia isn't available for the postseason even if they are equal players.
That only means something IF they make the playoffs, I'm talking about getting there.
Thats fine. But if player one is equal to player two and only player two can make the postseason, you've improved the roster acquiring player two.
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In comment 12390973 DanMetroMan said:
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there a difference between being down or "not excited" and being really disappointed they won't spend money to help the team? EVERYONE agreed they needed a bat.
Debating between "down" or "disappointed" really is just semantics isn't it?
Totally disagree. Excited about aspects of the team, disappointed ownership refuses to do more. If that's your rationale the Mets could do NOTHING all off-season and you would be happy because of the young pitching. If that's your rationale why do we even talk about making additions or needs?
But they haven't done nothing so that's a silly and moot point. If they truly did absolutely nothing maybe I would be down/disappointed in them as well but that isn't the case.
IMO talking about options and possibilities is one of the fun things about baseball however they not making a move that I perhaps thought about doesn't cause me any angst.
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we acquired Zobrist without paying the Zobrist price tag. Uribe and Johnson give you all the flexibility Zobrist would have position wise, and both their bats make up for Zobrists as far as this season. They are all around the same age, and all having similar seasons. In fact, you can probably make the case that two of three are better than one but since its "Zobrist" Ill say its about even.
Zobrist isn't the kind of bat we're talking about anyway. Nor is Parra. If those guys are Sandy's 'bullet' we've been sold a bill of goods ...again. Except many of us aren't buying. Then there are others that slurp up anything the team spews on the sidewalk gratefully. Right Z?
I said from the beginning that was pretty much exactly who I wanted. Zobrist and Parra. So fuck off.
Wright will not be playing 3b for the Mets on 8/15
Reyes would be the perfect bridge to Cecchini/Rosario. The deal would likely be dead money in the back-end, but we'd be better today and 2016.
They don't want Reyes. Reyes isn't good. I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand.
Prevost (rehab) 3 innings 2 hits 0 runs 1 walk 3 k's
We all would but banking on just half of those things would be very optimistic let alone all of them.
We're talking about a catcher who gets hurt every time someone bumps into him, a 3B with a serious spinal condition, a RP who is looking at being out about 3x longer than the initial timetable (if at all) and a SP who has already been under the knife and made it through a whopping 2 starts before being shelved.
Ruben Tejada 1.3 WAR
Jose Reyes wRC+ 94
Ruben Tejada wRC+ 93
Ruben Tejada 1.3 WAR
Jose Reyes wRC+ 94
Ruben Tejada wRC+ 93
So you think Ruben Tejada will be better than Reyes RoS 2015 and in 2016?
I don't think Wright will play full time and even if he plays close to it going from having the worst bench in baseball to a bench full of quality major league players wouldn't be improving the team??
In fairness I do think Sandy is actively trying to add a legit bat with an economical price tag. Gomez @ 2/18M or Jay Bruce @2/26M fit the profile. It isn't as easy as it sounds. The price tags in terms of talent compensation are high.
Dan great point as far as penny pinching on the bench and a lefty arm are concerned. It's hard to take claims of salary flexibility seriously when the team won't dole out chump change to bolster a playoff push.
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Jose Reyes 1.1 WAR
Ruben Tejada 1.3 WAR
Jose Reyes wRC+ 94
Ruben Tejada wRC+ 93
So you think Ruben Tejada will be better than Reyes RoS 2015 and in 2016?
Im not even sure Tejada will be a starter next year, but if he was? Yeah probably. Reyes's defense is AWFUL at this point in his career and he is giving his teams roughly "Tejada level" offense. After two years of sucking he's going to get better at 33 next year? Yeah. ok.
I'm going Friday as well. Excited to see Harvey, I keep being worried I'll get stuck with Niese lol
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So you think Ruben Tejada will be better than Reyes RoS 2015 and in 2016?
Im not even sure Tejada will be a starter next year, but if he was? Yeah probably. Reyes's defense is AWFUL at this point in his career and he is giving his teams roughly "Tejada level" offense. After two years of sucking he's going to get better at 33 next year? Yeah. ok.
Cool. I'll save this and we'll compare at the end of 2015 and 2016.
There's def a possibility that I'm wrong and Reyes is washed up and Tejada will continue to be solid, but my expectation is that Reyes is worth at least two extra wins over the next 8 months of baseball.
In fairness I do think Sandy is actively trying to add a legit bat with an economical price tag. Gomez @ 2/18M or Jay Bruce @2/26M fit the profile. It isn't as easy as it sounds. The price tags in terms of talent compensation are high.
Dan great point as far as penny pinching on the bench and a lefty arm are concerned. It's hard to take claims of salary flexibility seriously when the team won't dole out chump change to bolster a playoff push.
No I didn't say we would be taking on salary fuck face. I said we likely have some level of flexibility should we want or need to take on a a contract. We've already added 5.5 million, well more than what Zobrist would have costed, and its pretty clear with who the Mets have been concocted with, they CAN add more.
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In comment 12391084 Metnut said:
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So you think Ruben Tejada will be better than Reyes RoS 2015 and in 2016?
Im not even sure Tejada will be a starter next year, but if he was? Yeah probably. Reyes's defense is AWFUL at this point in his career and he is giving his teams roughly "Tejada level" offense. After two years of sucking he's going to get better at 33 next year? Yeah. ok.
Cool. I'll save this and we'll compare at the end of 2015 and 2016.
There's def a possibility that I'm wrong and Reyes is washed up and Tejada will continue to be solid, but my expectation is that Reyes is worth at least two extra wins over the next 8 months of baseball.
Please do. Going to be pretty pointless unless Tejada is starting full time however.
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head to the game Friday night. Should be an electric atmosphere with Harvey vs. Gio and first place on the line.
I'm going Friday as well. Excited to see Harvey, I keep being worried I'll get stuck with Niese lol
I've gone to half a dozen games this year and have gotten one of Colon/Gee/Niese each time. I don't think there's rain scheduled tonight/tomorrow, so I think we're safe.
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Please do. Going to be pretty pointless unless Tejada is starting full time however.
Then why even bother to bring up Tejada's stats in 4 months of baseball unless to say the guy we have is as good as Reyes?
We've added zero. Zilch Bupkus. Nada. Nothing. No money at all.
We've spent the David Wright and Mejia savings. That is it.
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In comment 12391113 Metnut said:
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Please do. Going to be pretty pointless unless Tejada is starting full time however.
Then why even bother to bring up Tejada's stats in 4 months of baseball unless to say the guy we have is as good as Reyes?
Im pointing it out because NEITHER is a difference maker. Tejada playing in only a pat time role until recently has already acquired MORE WAR then Reyes. They are both roughly the same hitter. Would you consider Tejada's bat awesome or something? I sure wouldn't. The point is Reyes is WORST than Tejada. Why should we take on a contract and give up prospects for somebody worst then we have? It makes no sense. And Tejada isn't the answer either. He's doing a decent job but I would be looking to replace him again in the offseason or moving to Cecchini in 2016.
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Source: Latos, Morse to Dodgers for prospects. At least one competitive balance pick also to Dodgers. W/ Latos off board Haren still in play
I was there for that. All things considered the most important pitching performance I ever saw live. Best ever was Pedro vs. the Yankees, had like 17-18 k's for the Sox.
We were getting whatever insurance we got from Wright and the Mejia suspensions regardless so yes we added payroll over the deadline that we didnt have to. Its not the Mets fault if unforeseen tragedies have happened they will get repaid a little bit back on.
I have no idea why some of you are so hung up on the payroll anyway. We were sitting here wondering if they would do anything a week ago. They went out and acquired three players that cost almost twice as much as Zobrsist. They also acquired two players that cost almost 4 million in the spring. What's the point here? Those players aren't good enough because nobody will be happy unless they spend 20 million on a player? Makes no sense.
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In comment 12391124 ZGiants98 said:
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In comment 12391113 Metnut said:
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Im pointing it out because NEITHER is a difference maker. Tejada playing in only a pat time role until recently has already acquired MORE WAR then Reyes. They are both roughly the same hitter. Would you consider Tejada's bat awesome or something? I sure wouldn't. The point is Reyes is WORST than Tejada. Why should we take on a contract and give up prospects for somebody worst then we have? It makes no sense. And Tejada isn't the answer either. He's doing a decent job but I would be looking to replace him again in the offseason or moving to Cecchini in 2016.
IMO, you're ignoring some useful data. There's more to go on when projecting future performance than 90 or so games in 2015. Just last year Reyes had a year that Tejada will likely never be able to have.
I think Reyes is a pretty damn good bet to outproduce Tejada for RoS 2015 and 2016, especially now that he's off of the turf. I sincerely doubt we'd have to give up any prospects of significance to get Reyes.
Reyes fWAR:
2012 3.9
2013 2.2
2014 3.4
2015 1.1
Tejada fWAR:
2012 1.7
2013 -0.3
2014 1.3
2015 1.3
Clueless.
wait which Bobby Jones? did the Mets have two Bobby Jones' at the same time.
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In comment 12391129 Metnut said:
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In comment 12391124 ZGiants98 said:
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In comment 12391113 Metnut said:
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Im pointing it out because NEITHER is a difference maker. Tejada playing in only a pat time role until recently has already acquired MORE WAR then Reyes. They are both roughly the same hitter. Would you consider Tejada's bat awesome or something? I sure wouldn't. The point is Reyes is WORST than Tejada. Why should we take on a contract and give up prospects for somebody worst then we have? It makes no sense. And Tejada isn't the answer either. He's doing a decent job but I would be looking to replace him again in the offseason or moving to Cecchini in 2016.
IMO, you're ignoring some useful data. There's more to go on when projecting future performance than 90 or so games in 2015. Just last year Reyes had a year that Tejada will likely never be able to have.
I think Reyes is a pretty damn good bet to outproduce Tejada for RoS 2015 and 2016, especially now that he's off of the turf. I sincerely doubt we'd have to give up any prospects of significance to get Reyes.
Reyes fWAR:
2012 3.9
2013 2.2
2014 3.4
2015 1.1
Tejada fWAR:
2012 1.7
2013 -0.3
2014 1.3
2015 1.3
Your seriously going back to 2012 to make a case that Reyes has been better than Tejada over the last 5 years?? lol. Wow. I think we all know that. Congratulations. I was speaking to this season in which Reyes has played most of. He's now old and a terrible defensive SS. He's not likely to get better.
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Z...We were getting whatever insurance we got from Wright and the Mejia suspensions regardless so yes we added payroll over the deadline that we didn't have to
Clueless.
Yeah and I guess widely being reported as having serious conversations about Bruce, Tulo, Gomez ect is all a ruse for the sake of making fans on the BBI web site happy. We have no money to spend. Completely broke again., All for show folks.
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against the Giants in the playoffs, I forget what year it was, pitched one of the greatest games of all time under the circumstances. loved Bobby Jones
wait which Bobby Jones? did the Mets have two Bobby Jones' at the same time.
Was it racist to call the other one "Black Bobby Jones"? lol
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Z, we haven't added a cent to payroll. Zilch. Don't know where you are getting 5.5 from. It's well documented at this point that all we've spent were savings. There's no net + in terms of payroll.
We were getting whatever insurance we got from Wright and the Mejia suspensions regardless so yes we added payroll over the deadline that we didnt have to. Its not the Mets fault if unforeseen tragedies have happened they will get repaid a little bit back on.
I have no idea why some of you are so hung up on the payroll anyway. We were sitting here wondering if they would do anything a week ago. They went out and acquired three players that cost almost twice as much as Zobrsist. They also acquired two players that cost almost 4 million in the spring. What's the point here? Those players aren't good enough because nobody will be happy unless they spend 20 million on a player? Makes no sense.
Oh lord, you're kidding me right?
We are hung up on the payroll because despite a thousand empty assurances that we "have money to spend" and "have flexibility", not one thing has been done to back those statements.
We can take on a contract? Show us! Stop telling us you can. Stop needing cash to be a part of trades which forces us to give up better prospects. Prove it.
BAN THE MAN
There is no anti Plawecki talk allowed here!!
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In comment 12391157 arcarsenal said:
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Z, we haven't added a cent to payroll. Zilch. Don't know where you are getting 5.5 from. It's well documented at this point that all we've spent were savings. There's no net + in terms of payroll.
We were getting whatever insurance we got from Wright and the Mejia suspensions regardless so yes we added payroll over the deadline that we didnt have to. Its not the Mets fault if unforeseen tragedies have happened they will get repaid a little bit back on.
I have no idea why some of you are so hung up on the payroll anyway. We were sitting here wondering if they would do anything a week ago. They went out and acquired three players that cost almost twice as much as Zobrsist. They also acquired two players that cost almost 4 million in the spring. What's the point here? Those players aren't good enough because nobody will be happy unless they spend 20 million on a player? Makes no sense.
Oh lord, you're kidding me right?
We are hung up on the payroll because despite a thousand empty assurances that we "have money to spend" and "have flexibility", not one thing has been done to back those statements.
We can take on a contract? Show us! Stop telling us you can. Stop needing cash to be a part of trades which forces us to give up better prospects. Prove it.
Got it. So prove it. Gut our entire system. Lets trade Wheeler, Herrera, and half our future away so we can prove to Arc that we have the ability to take on a contract. That makes perfect sense to me.
And just so you know. Oakland was steadfast on Meisner. Sandy only asked for a million bucks back because he knew Beane wasn't budging. Just because we got back a million bucks out of almost 4 doesn't mean we could have suddenly given up Tyler Pill in a trade. lol
I agree wholeheartedly with you there Dan. Unfortunately we've got a FO who doesn't believe in speed nor a manager who believes in using speed. I still think the biggest need on the team (and organizationally) is a leadoff sparkplug.
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In comment 12391188 ZGiants98 said:
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In comment 12391157 arcarsenal said:
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Z, we haven't added a cent to payroll. Zilch. Don't know where you are getting 5.5 from. It's well documented at this point that all we've spent were savings. There's no net + in terms of payroll.
We were getting whatever insurance we got from Wright and the Mejia suspensions regardless so yes we added payroll over the deadline that we didnt have to. Its not the Mets fault if unforeseen tragedies have happened they will get repaid a little bit back on.
I have no idea why some of you are so hung up on the payroll anyway. We were sitting here wondering if they would do anything a week ago. They went out and acquired three players that cost almost twice as much as Zobrsist. They also acquired two players that cost almost 4 million in the spring. What's the point here? Those players aren't good enough because nobody will be happy unless they spend 20 million on a player? Makes no sense.
Oh lord, you're kidding me right?
We are hung up on the payroll because despite a thousand empty assurances that we "have money to spend" and "have flexibility", not one thing has been done to back those statements.
We can take on a contract? Show us! Stop telling us you can. Stop needing cash to be a part of trades which forces us to give up better prospects. Prove it.
Got it. So prove it. Gut our entire system. Lets trade Wheeler, Herrera, and half our future away so we can prove to Arc that we have the ability to take on a contract. That makes perfect sense to me.
And just so you know. Oakland was steadfast on Meisner. Sandy only asked for a million bucks back because he knew Beane wasn't budging. Just because we got back a million bucks out of almost 4 doesn't mean we could have suddenly given up Tyler Pill in a trade. lol
Yes, Z.. because there are zero moves to be made that don't include our absolute best prospects.
You'll believe anything this FO feeds you. It's incredible.
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be nice to add SOME team speed but I guess they will rely on Ceciliani or Herrera post 9/1
I agree wholeheartedly with you there Dan. Unfortunately we've got a FO who doesn't believe in speed nor a manager who believes in using speed. I still think the biggest need on the team (and organizationally) is a leadoff sparkplug.
Simon mentioned Rajai Davis, I thought about maybe Crisp for Cuddyer until I saw Davis was -17 DRS last season! WOW. Not much speed to be had.
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In comment 12391226 arcarsenal said:
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In comment 12391188 ZGiants98 said:
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In comment 12391157 arcarsenal said:
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Z, we haven't added a cent to payroll. Zilch. Don't know where you are getting 5.5 from. It's well documented at this point that all we've spent were savings. There's no net + in terms of payroll.
We were getting whatever insurance we got from Wright and the Mejia suspensions regardless so yes we added payroll over the deadline that we didnt have to. Its not the Mets fault if unforeseen tragedies have happened they will get repaid a little bit back on.
I have no idea why some of you are so hung up on the payroll anyway. We were sitting here wondering if they would do anything a week ago. They went out and acquired three players that cost almost twice as much as Zobrsist. They also acquired two players that cost almost 4 million in the spring. What's the point here? Those players aren't good enough because nobody will be happy unless they spend 20 million on a player? Makes no sense.
Oh lord, you're kidding me right?
We are hung up on the payroll because despite a thousand empty assurances that we "have money to spend" and "have flexibility", not one thing has been done to back those statements.
We can take on a contract? Show us! Stop telling us you can. Stop needing cash to be a part of trades which forces us to give up better prospects. Prove it.
Got it. So prove it. Gut our entire system. Lets trade Wheeler, Herrera, and half our future away so we can prove to Arc that we have the ability to take on a contract. That makes perfect sense to me.
And just so you know. Oakland was steadfast on Meisner. Sandy only asked for a million bucks back because he knew Beane wasn't budging. Just because we got back a million bucks out of almost 4 doesn't mean we could have suddenly given up Tyler Pill in a trade. lol
Yes, Z.. because there are zero moves to be made that don't include our absolute best prospects.
You'll believe anything this FO feeds you. It's incredible.
Isn't that exactly the kind of player we are all referring to though? The huge difference maker like Gomez, or Tulo, or Cespedes? Do we really need more depth moves? The back end of the roster looks pretty strong all of the sudden. Unfortunately the big guys are going to cost a lot, possibly too much. Even Dan has said Parra's price tag is now through the roof and probably not worth it.
There are plenty examples of how being able to kick in money/take money back can improve the club without paying such a hefty price in terms of prospects. I just wish the Mets would show the ability to do that. It helps and absolutely can make a difference.
It's times like these I feel the need to get literary.
F. Scott Fitzgerald
I personally think we can get Bruce without that but who knows whats really going on here.
It's times like these I feel the need to get literary.
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The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function.
F. Scott Fitzgerald
If you are referring to me what part of the roster do I not see the bad in? I would like a huge MVP caliber bat in the middle of the lineup as much as the next guy but it might not be doable or all that easy to pull off. And Im not up for mortgaging the future either. I think we likely have enough right now to compete. Especially with TDA back Friday and possibly Wright the end of August.
For the record, I don't trust ownership to make a trade to add payroll. I would love to be surprised of course. And if the Wilpons do take on salary, I would certainly applaud the move.
For the record, I don't trust ownership to make a trade to add payroll. I would love to be surprised of course. And if the Wilpons do take on salary, I would certainly applaud the move.
No offense to the original topic but how long could this thread possibly be on that one topic?
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are annoying as F.
It's times like these I feel the need to get literary.
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The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function.
F. Scott Fitzgerald
If you are referring to me what part of the roster do I not see the bad in? I would like a huge MVP caliber bat in the middle of the lineup as much as the next guy but it might not be doable or all that easy to pull off. And Im not up for mortgaging the future either. I think we likely have enough right now to compete. Especially with TDA back Friday and possibly Wright the end of August.
I just can't remember you criticizing the Mets. And God knows that they've been bad for long enough to deserve a ton of a criticism. We can enjoy this amazing young pitching and being in it (though the Nats haven't been great) while knocking them for past and current mismanagement, no?
Jayson Stark @jaysonst
Teams speaking with the #Padres say theyre about to get super-active & think theyre positioning themselves to make a huge deal.
Parra. Still hope we can add him and he won't cost us a ton. I know he was a gold glover two years ago and weirdly his defensive numbers are down being jerked around in three different positions but at 28 I think he would'nt kill us in CF. He'd be better than Granderson there and you still have Lagares to take over late in a game.
It's times like these I feel the need to get literary.
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The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function.
F. Scott Fitzgerald
I think most fans can acknowledge the good and the bad, but for some they can enjoy the good without the need to dwell and harp on the bad.
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to what is the Wilpons payroll ceiling.
For the record, I don't trust ownership to make a trade to add payroll. I would love to be surprised of course. And if the Wilpons do take on salary, I would certainly applaud the move.
No offense to the original topic but how long could this thread possibly be on that one topic?
I agree. Sorry my sarcasm alert button was turned off. :)
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In comment 12391296 chris r said:
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are annoying as F.
It's times like these I feel the need to get literary.
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The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function.
F. Scott Fitzgerald
If you are referring to me what part of the roster do I not see the bad in? I would like a huge MVP caliber bat in the middle of the lineup as much as the next guy but it might not be doable or all that easy to pull off. And Im not up for mortgaging the future either. I think we likely have enough right now to compete. Especially with TDA back Friday and possibly Wright the end of August.
I just can't remember you criticizing the Mets. And God knows that they've been bad for long enough to deserve a ton of a criticism. We can enjoy this amazing young pitching and being in it (though the Nats haven't been great) while knocking them for past and current mismanagement, no?
I criticize Collins. I fault the Wilpons for the entire Madoff situations and I especially don't like Jeff. There's many players I hate on the team. I am a big believer in Sandy and I absolutely support him and his process. I think he has turned this team around and has us built for many years of sustained success. That said I don't think Sandy is having the best year. Think he should have pulled the trigger earlier on getting rid of Cambell. I never was thrilled with the A. Torres trade and even more keeping him this long... He's not perfect and I share my gripes.
He brought something up that was directed at me. I answered it. Fuck off you twit.
Very excited. He reportedly has hit 99 multiple times. A hard throwing lefty out of the pen of that caliber would be an awesome find. Former first round pick.
If we can find the touch to identify position players and bats to complement our success in the pitching realm we'll be a force to reckon with.
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What is this therapy? or a baseball discussion. Put a sock in it you attention whore.
He brought something up that was directed at me. I answered it. Fuck off you twit.
It was more broad actually. There seems to be an inordinate amount of pom pom Giants fans on here too. Anyway sorry for the OT.
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In comment 12391339 Torrag said:
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What is this therapy? or a baseball discussion. Put a sock in it you attention whore.
He brought something up that was directed at me. I answered it. Fuck off you twit.
It was more broad actually. There seems to be an inordinate amount of pom pom Giants fans on here too. Anyway sorry for the OT.
Well sorry I elaborated. lol. I thought I was discussing baseball and the Mets but silly me.
Bartolo & Niese( no disrespect to those guys, they've been above and beyond) and get to deGrom Harvey Thor and hopefully Matz. The bigger the game, these guys( the young guys) step up their games
Yeah. Thats what I was thinking too. So Maybe Montero is worth more than a first round comp pick? About as far as I would go.
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with Upton is you need to give the Padres "more than" the first round pick they will get if/when he walks.
Yeah. Thats what I was thinking too. So Maybe Montero is worth more than a first round comp pick? About as far as I would go.
Find it hard to believe he's viewed as such when Beane turned down Montero for Zobrist. If Montero were healthy having a big year I think it changes things. "Lost season" working his way back dims his value.
Shoulder is often career ending and Wheeler when healthy still has sex appeal. Big tall arm with mid 90's FB. Would anyone honestly prefer Montero over Wheeler if you could only keep one on BBI? And I say that as a Wheeler critique and Montero fan.
What could we have had from Oakland instead of the $1 million? A prospect? IFA money? Is it your position that the $1 million was just completely free and we couldnt have gotten anything else instead? Again, your basis please.
And what alternative transactions might we have considered if we didnt need to fit into a small market budget? Fangraphs said Steve Cishek was had for a non-prospect. Might we have been better off with him? I dont know, but getting back money in BOTH recent deals is awfully telling -- it tells me that the Wilpons were unwilling to add payroll beyond the Wright insurance funds, and that we got talent and paid prices commensurate with that unwillingness to pony up.
What could we have had from Oakland instead of the $1 million? A prospect? IFA money? Is it your position that the $1 million was just completely free and we couldnt have gotten anything else instead? Again, your basis please.
And what alternative transactions might we have considered if we didnt need to fit into a small market budget? Fangraphs said Steve Cishek was had for a non-prospect. Might we have been better off with him? I dont know, but getting back money in BOTH recent deals is awfully telling -- it tells me that the Wilpons were unwilling to add payroll beyond the Wright insurance funds, and that we got talent and paid prices commensurate with that unwillingness to pony up.
Its been widely reported that Beane was insistent on Meisner. Clippard had almost 4 million left on his deal and we are paying close to 3 million of it. That IS taking on most of the deal. If you honestly think we were closing the deal without Meisner if we had paid the extra million then I don't know what to tell you. It is my opinion that is not the case here.
"Clippard, who is a free agent after this season, is owed approximately $3 million for the rest of this season. A team source said that the As are paying at least $1 million of that."
Remember 6 days ago Mets lost in DC we lamented could have been 1 back missed a chance--well--check the standings today
"Clippard, who is a free agent after this season, is owed approximately $3 million for the rest of this season. A team source said that the As are paying at least $1 million of that."
Yeah I thought it was like 3.8 and they were paying a million of that but Id have to double check. It could have been 3 and 1. Doesn't change what Im saying whatsoever.
And in any event, if we were willing to take on more salary then there may have been better/talent-cheaper options. Big market teams use $$ like a weapon. The Mets are down there with the Poors, trying to fashion a competitive team on a relative shoestring budget. There isnt another NY area team that spends like a small market team, excepting the Islanders who have been a joke for years (and were recently sold).
Wheeler
Niese
For
Braun
Segura
Proposed on MLB network as a suggestion. O'Dowd loved it.
It's not being discussed by the teams, just a fun discussion for fans.
Wheeler
Niese
For
Braun
Segura
Proposed on MLB network as a suggestion. O'Dowd loved it.
It's not being discussed by the teams, just a fun discussion for fans.
Absolutely not. Braun is owed big money. Swap Conforto for Nimmo and I'd do it though
Ben Badler: Still very optimistic about his future. Hes had a couple of very brief stints in the major leagues that have shown flashes of his potential but overall werent good enough, but hes a 21-year-old pure hitter with good balance and a quick stroke whos dominated at every level, including this year in Triple-A. If you give him consistent playing time, he can develop into an above-average regular.
Nick (Right Field): Do you think Hi-A might have been a little to big of a jump for Marcos Molina. How do you project him going forward?
Ben Badler: The competition level was fine, he just got hurt. When he was healthy, he had frontline starter potential.
Sandy (Queens): What can you tell me about Luis Carpio?
Ben Badler: A personal favorite of mine we put into our Top 30 for July 2 a couple years ago. Very young kid for his signing class whos hit better than I would have expected given his aggressive assignment this year to the Appy League. Nice, level line drive stroke, good pitch recognition, understands the strike zone and will always be more about OBP over power with a chance to stay at shortstop. Scrappy, gamer type too that managers will love. Stock is definitely up this year.
Jonathan (NYC): Hey Ben, I know most prospect lists had Thor maxing out as #2, but now seeing what Thor is doing in the majors, do you think he has an ace-ceiling? And if so where was his improvements from the minors? Thanks!
Ben Badler: I had him the top pitching prospect coming into the season and thought at the time he could be an ace, which is a label I only throw on a small, elite group of minor league pitchers. Its overpowering stuff that he commands and holds deep into the game.
The counterpoint that is Paplebon this year, but he was a different case since he had a huge option year next year and he had a lot of leverage to hold up the deal (reduced his market).
Meisner was pretty fair value and though I'd agree the need to have 1M kicked in is confounding, I don't believe that money is the difference between the A's accepting a lesser prospect. If it was I would 100% agree and be pretty furious with the organization.
Wheeler
Niese
For
Braun
Segura
Proposed on MLB network as a suggestion. O'Dowd loved it.
It's not being discussed by the teams, just a fun discussion for fans.
Same answer as Dan, not dealing Conforto. Would be willing to swap in Herrera or Nimmo.
Why? PED's? Will you cheer Colon down the stretch?
Colon is at the end. I don't feel any particular sort of way for colon other than laughing when he actually gets a hit.
Colon is at the end. I don't feel any particular sort of way for colon other than laughing when he actually gets a hit.
But if Colon is pitching a 1 game playoff, you will cheer for him correct? I personally cheer for the laundry and accept I have cheered for (and will continue to) cheer for cheaters, homophobes, racists and jerks. Before this last suspension we were all prepared to cheer for Mejia, we all cheered for Mota etc etc.
Also, Im not an expert on Balt's system so the prospect may have sucked. But unless the system is terrible, I dont think you trade your #3 prospect for a UFA reliever at the deadline. I think that's stupid. We got Pitt's #9 and #11 prospects for Byrd and Buck, and one of those was a RP himself, and Byrd > Miller. Though I possibly under-rate the value of specific relievers, especially when the Royals made bullpens cool again.
They'd ask for way more than Conforto and Wheeler. Your giving up Syndergaard or Matz for Puig.
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Yup.
nice jinx lol
I like that Matz is represented as an ace already : )
Mets have held opponents to two runs or fewer 43 times this year, the fourth-most games in MLB. The Mets are 34-9 in those games.
Puig just scares me. So many reports that they just can't stand him. Great talent but I don't know if I want to bring that into this clubhouse.
here ya go
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@fangraphs not believers in Parra http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/gerardo-parra-career-year-or-productive-mirage/ #Mets
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Im higher on Nimmo than most so Id try swap that for Rosario or somebody but gun to my head I probably do it. Think he'd add another dynamic to this team this year and give us a much needed leadoff hitter.
I know ppl are down on Nimmo but i think he's got a chance to be a solid player and I know you have to give up something to get something. But that sucks for me.
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the name threw me off.
here ya go Link - ( New Window )
Now I don't feel so bad for assuming. Thanks!
It's not his BABIP they don't believe in. Article goes in depth. They think this is a fluke season (which does sometimes happen). His approach apparently is all over the place but has been lucky this year.
His true quality of batsmanship, therefore, comes back to the question of his batting average on balls in play (BABIP). My expected BABIP (xBABIP) equation pegs Parra for a .341 xBABIP, largely validating his current .351 BABIP that, if the season ended now, would represent a career-best rate. Parra has always been a high-BABIP guy .325 career, .305 at his worst but not necessarily with consistency. In other words, another .300-plus batting average next year asks a lot.
Still, Parra, 28, is theoretically entering his prime; his batted ball profile could actually improve or, if anything, remain stable and not regress next year, and he could prove me (edit: and Sarris and Sporer) wrong. But the lifted truck behind us has its high beams blasting into the rear-view mirror and theyre hard to ignore and theyre really bright but if you squint hard enough the bumper sticker says Six Years of Predominantly Mediocre Offense. Losses in his batted ball gains will correspond with losses in power and BABIP, reducing Parra to his former self.
For now, Parra is a serviceable fantasy outfielder in that hell contribute, albeit modestly, to every standard offensive category. But I am loath to expect he wont regress next year. Parra epitomizes the hot hand (depending on your definition of hot and, maybe, hand), and I advocate riding it, depending on your needs. But I dont anticipate valuable production from Parra beyond this season."
Zero is an incredible number. Though if what his manager said in that linked article is true re his knee. It would explain a lot about lack of a lot of HRs. Just not sure how he has zero...
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strange how Nimmo goes from talking about the power he unlocked in ST with Kevin Long to not homering in now 60 straight games.
Zero is an incredible number. Though if what his manager said in that linked article is true re his knee. It would explain a lot about lack of a lot of HRs. Just not sure how he has zero...
Yup. Last homer came April 14th
Pie in the sky everything works out and talent is utilized I see him as a Choo or Gardner type with less speed.
Unless you're a special kind of all-star in waiting.
But. The one critique I heard about him always stuck with me. Does he love the game? He doesn't have the Harvey personality, the DeGrom personality, cechinni, or Conforto personality. All different but ultimately gym rats who love the game. I've heard Nimmo works hard and a good student, but does he truly LOVE the game?
Reason I mention that is, I wonder if the injuries have taken their toll. And more importantly the expectations and criticism?
I still think Lagares has to have a left-handed platoon mate over the next couple years also and Nimmo could make a nice part of that platoon in 2016.
But. The one critique I heard about him always stuck with me. Does he love the game? He doesn't have the Harvey personality, the DeGrom personality, cechinni, or Conforto personality. All different but ultimately gym rats who love the game. I've heard Nimmo works hard and a good student, but does he truly LOVE the game?
Reason I mention that is, I wonder if the injuries have taken their toll. And more importantly the expectations and criticism?
Im seriously confused about this. People in the organization rave about him, the talent, the person, works hard but your wondering if he loves baseball?
Unless you're a special kind of all-star in waiting.
He has one steal and isn't walking like he had previously. Which stats this year should we be focusing on? Law was unimpressed (after liking him previously). I think the critiques are more than fair. should be noted Law was on the Smith and Cecchini bandwagons even when they were struggling
I highly doubt he'd be a top 50 on BA currently with multiple appearances and consistently in the top 100 if it was only because he was a first round pick. Cecchini was nowhere near a list until this year and upcoming year and he is also a first round pick.
and from some of the stuff I read about him not having a high school team and all the travel he had to do to play I don't know if I'd question his love for the game? But he did get $2M at 18 years old, maybe burnout? If anything. Just going by what Shecky posted and trying to read between the lines.
You can see Nimmo already has a big-league personality.
His American Legion coach Tagg Lain runs the Cheyenne Post Six program that produces a 70-game schedule, a schedule this year that included a week of spring training in Arizona so that the bevy of scouts following Brandon could watch daily eight-hour workouts.
Ive coached Bryce Harper in the Tournament of Stars, says Lain, who has coached 18 years and has won nine of the last 10 American Legion state championships with Post Six. Thats when I told [tournament officials] that Ive got a guy who is that close to Bryce. There is not a huge gap between those two guys.
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but if Nimmo wasn't a first round pick, no one would be talking about him.
I highly doubt he'd be a top 50 on BA currently with multiple appearances and consistently in the top 100 if it was only because he was a first round pick. Cecchini was nowhere near a list until this year and upcoming year and he is also a first round pick.
What do you like about him? What are his plus tools? The best I can see is that he's got good plate discipline. Besides that he's decidedly average or worse in every facet of baseball as far as I can tell. I don't think that's enough. And he's not even young anymore.
We just had this discussion like a week ago. Don't think we need to re-hash it. His OBP is over .350 (yes his BABIP is a little high but also SSS), his wRC+ in AA is 111 and so far in Vegas 190. He's also had a injury riddled season and for all we know is being told NOT to run. His ability to stick in CF all this time is a big PLUS as far as Im concerned and I believe the bat is holding its own, even if not spectacular yet. We also know he gets red hot at times and puts up video game numbers for a few weeks at a time and we haven't seen that this year yet either. Also still 2-3 years younger than everyone in his league.
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Home runs are projections until your mid-20s.
Unless you're a special kind of all-star in waiting.
He has one steal and isn't walking like he had previously. Which stats this year should we be focusing on? Law was unimpressed (after liking him previously). I think the critiques are more than fair. should be noted Law was on the Smith and Cecchini bandwagons even when they were struggling
I was only referencing judging prospects on home runs. That's like the last stat I'd look at. Everything else is fair game.
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In comment 12391679 chris r said:
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but if Nimmo wasn't a first round pick, no one would be talking about him.
I highly doubt he'd be a top 50 on BA currently with multiple appearances and consistently in the top 100 if it was only because he was a first round pick. Cecchini was nowhere near a list until this year and upcoming year and he is also a first round pick.
What do you like about him? What are his plus tools? The best I can see is that he's got good plate discipline. Besides that he's decidedly average or worse in every facet of baseball as far as I can tell. I don't think that's enough. And he's not even young anymore.
Wow. This is a mess. He's not young anymore?? He's 22 in AAA. 22 year olds are just getting drafted out of college this summer. He is 2-3 years younger than his level. He's hitting for average, always has a great eye, and he's playing a respectable CF from every report Ive read. What more do you want? Babe Ruth power and 70 stolen bases? Nobody's saying this is the next Bryce Harper here but he's still solid prospect.
LOL
lol. Thought it was a few at least. My bad. Don't change anything I said.
Thats actually exactly what Im expecting though. A platoon partner for Lagares.
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In comment 12391707 ZGiants98 said:
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In comment 12391679 chris r said:
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but if Nimmo wasn't a first round pick, no one would be talking about him.
I highly doubt he'd be a top 50 on BA currently with multiple appearances and consistently in the top 100 if it was only because he was a first round pick. Cecchini was nowhere near a list until this year and upcoming year and he is also a first round pick.
What do you like about him? What are his plus tools? The best I can see is that he's got good plate discipline. Besides that he's decidedly average or worse in every facet of baseball as far as I can tell. I don't think that's enough. And he's not even young anymore.
Wow. This is a mess. He's not young anymore?? He's 22 in AAA. 22 year olds are just getting drafted out of college this summer. He is 2-3 years younger than his level. He's hitting for average, always has a great eye, and he's playing a respectable CF from every report Ive read. What more do you want? Babe Ruth power and 70 stolen bases? Nobody's saying this is the next Bryce Harper here but he's still solid prospect.
What are his plus tools? Besides great eye you haven't named one.
And you'd hope a 22 year old would be developed enough to hit a home run or two ever sixty games.
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I checked he was something like 38th in both wrc+ and woba for contest. 111 isn't a positive for a guy you are hoping to be a difference maker. If you are okay with him merely being a good platoon OF/Dejesus type this fine but that's not what people are expecting/wanting
Thats actually exactly what Im expecting though. A platoon partner for Lagares.
And if that's your want/expectation then you have a good shot at getting that but I think the vast majority are expecting a core player, "another Conforto", maybe even an all-star.
Since you mention DeJesus. Surprised him and David Murphy have gotten no mention. Sure Parra is a better player, but would anyone really have been upset if the Mets gave up non prospects and received those two to add to the bench? Very underrated and under the radar trades I thought.
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In comment 12391726 DanMetroMan said:
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I checked he was something like 38th in both wrc+ and woba for contest. 111 isn't a positive for a guy you are hoping to be a difference maker. If you are okay with him merely being a good platoon OF/Dejesus type this fine but that's not what people are expecting/wanting
Thats actually exactly what Im expecting though. A platoon partner for Lagares.
And if that's your want/expectation then you have a good shot at getting that but I think the vast majority are expecting a core player, "another Conforto", maybe even an all-star.
We could be off on our perceptions but I really don't think thats the perception around here. I really doubt people are looking at Nimmo as a future all-star anymore. I see solid player that could contribute but not some all-star at all.
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I checked he was something like 38th in both wrc+ and woba for contest. 111 isn't a positive for a guy you are hoping to be a difference maker. If you are okay with him merely being a good platoon OF/Dejesus type this fine but that's not what people are expecting/wanting
Thats actually exactly what Im expecting though. A platoon partner for Lagares.
So you think we'd always be talking about a guy who is projected as a platoon player if he wasn't a first rounder?
Since you mention DeJesus. Surprised him and David Murphy have gotten no mention. Sure Parra is a better player, but would anyone really have been upset if the Mets gave up non prospects and received those two to add to the bench? Very underrated and under the radar trades I thought.
Angels got them for literally nothing
Mets still seeking big bat - ( New Window )
Dude, seriously you are a fucking joke. We all laughed and I admitted my mistake looking at the numbers. Who the fuck are you anyway? Where were you over the last few years when HH, Arc, Dan, and others were in the weeds talking baseball? Fucking bandwagon fan thats wants to join the bus now? Going to target me and make swipes at me daily now? Fuck off. You haven't earned your stripes here. Not even close.
Well then Id be shocked? People here are expecting 20+ homeruns from Nimmo right now??? Wow. Not disagreeing with you but as a social experiment anybody here agree with that? Is that how you all are viewing Nimmo currently??
also in story, astros have checked on @JUST_JUP, zack wheeler discussed with reds in jay bruce talk
I've been an active poster on BBI for a decade moron.
I've been an active poster on BBI for a decade moron.
Not on Mets threads. Guess you are just a "Mets fan" when you want to be. Cool beans.
Lol. If you don't think you are targeting me daily here over the last week or so you are absolutely delusional. GTFO. Thanks for showing up for the playoff run. How convenient for you.
I do it and and make it work. Bruce and Granderson are locks for two OF spots. Conforto, and whoever splits CF with Granderson can rotate it around and we should be fine.
Side comment, I was talking to a die hard Cincinnati fan the other day and I mentioned Bruce and he sort of just rolled his eyes. Had more of a "good riddance" attitude about him. Said he is VERY streaky.
Might mean nothing but I found it interesting.
Like I said, Id love to add Bruce.
So you're all newbies to me.
As far as Bruce and 30 homers. I don't have his home/road splits but his home ballpark is a bandbox. Again at his dollar value he's a good player. I don't necessarily think 'underrated' is a label he warrants but hey that's your opinion.
Wheeler for Bruce? Sign me up. Still don't know how that OF alignment works but I would love to land Bruce. Has a team option for a reasonable 13M in 2017, IIRC as well.. so he'd be far from a rental. Underrated player because of his crappy 2014.
As far as Bruce and 30 homers. I don't have his home/road splits but his home ballpark is a bandbox. Again at his dollar value he's a good player. I don't necessarily think 'underrated' is a label he warrants but hey that's your opinion.
If you actually read what I posted, his AAA numbers meant nothing nor did it support what I was saying. We all know Nimmo Just got promoted to Vegas. And I especially knew Dan knew that. Wasn't trying to trick anyone. lol. But keep being the complete imbecile you are and coming after me like a scorned teenager that stole your girlfriend.
So you're all newbies to me.
And your easily one of the best Mets posters here. Its not even a question.
2012 and 2013 he finished 10th in MVP voting
2010- 5.1 WAR
2011- 3.0 WAR
2012 2.5 WAR
2013 4.2 WAR
2014 -0.8 WAR (battled a knee issue all year)
2015 1.9 WAR (on pace for 3.0 WAR per ZIPS)
He's 9th in wRC+ amongst RF's this season
He's 9th in wOBA
He's 8th in homers
9th in OBP
9th in RBI
2008-2013 115 OPS+
2014 was horrid
2015 125 OPS+
By WAR value he's already been worth 15.5 million in 2015 and has been worth 30+ twice in his career. He's signed through 2017 at 12.5 and 13 million where guys like Upton are going to get 100+
GAB 1.37 homers per game (3rd)
Citifield 1.268 homers per game (6th)
And remember that includes the fact the Mets themselves don't have power hitters
Link - ( New Window )
Ellsbury is a guy I thought the Mets should have signed, though not at that contract for that many years.
I'm not suggesting he's a superstar. I'm suggesting his resume is better than people are giving him credit for. He'd be the best offensive player on the Mets (not including Wright until we see Wright)
I IMMEDIATELY laughed and said my bad. Owned up to it almost immediately as I was just scanning his numbers briefly. I could have also said his wRC+ was 165 over the course of his time St. Lucie last year also which would have strengthened my case further but I didn't. If you actually took the time to read what I was saying rather than nitpicking one little aspect that I immediately apologized for, I was simply saying that he has held his own with the bat.
I know it sounds silly and like a bad reason not to do a deal if one made sense but that's just how it is.
@cgrand3 RF
Murphy 3B
Johnson 2B
Duda 1B
@mconforto8 LF
Nieuwenhuis CF
Flores SS
@Anthony_Recker C
Colon P
GAB 1.37 homers per game (3rd)
Citifield 1.268 homers per game (6th)
And remember that includes the fact the Mets themselves don't have power hitters
I'm pretty content with how the park plays these days. I think they finally got it right.
Also, this REALLY underscores how ridiculous DeGrom is. His home numbers are comical.
Ellsbury is a guy I thought the Mets should have signed, though not at that contract for that many years.
Isn't Gardner the everyday LF and Ellsbury the every day CF?? Why would they trade one of their best players heading towards the playoffs in first place??
I figured this would be the case. Flores will start every game at second against left-handed pitchers and move around giving other players a day off here and there at SS, ect.
HH killin' it today.
If you look at the replay closely it look like it did hit the yellow. I think it actually was a homerun but we were already celebrating and walking off the field. No need to look at it. lol.
Heyman also said Mets and Padres havent ruled out discussing an Upton deal again. #Mets #TradeDeadline
I know nothing about him - what do you like?
Heyman also said Mets and Padres havent ruled out discussing an Upton deal again. #Mets #TradeDeadline
Ive had a gut feeling for a while that Sandy has a hard on for the guy. Wouldn't surprise me at all. Especially now that his value might be lowered.
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would be a sweet buy low.
I know nothing about him - what do you like?
Misses a LOT of bats and is lefty. Hasn't been able to stay healthy but 199 major league innings 219 k's. Command is a major issue but 9.9 k/9 lefties don't grow on trees. Was worth 1.5 WAR in half a season as a starter in 2013. Career vs. lefties .202/.296/.327 2.83 FIP
Man. That would sting. Do it for Montero or Rosario and Im sold.
Should we be worried?
as @jaysonst said #Tigers have reversed and told teams they will listen on Price, Cespedes, etc. Changes face of marke
Yup. Was "blindsided" when a deal didn't materialize.
as @jaysonst said #Tigers have reversed and told teams they will listen on Price, Cespedes, etc. Changes face of marke
Oh man. Cespedes would be the ultimate rental.
Misses a LOT of bats and is lefty. Hasn't been able to stay healthy but 199 major league innings 219 k's. Command is a major issue but 9.9 k/9 lefties don't grow on trees. Was worth 1.5 WAR in half a season as a starter in 2013. Career vs. lefties .202/.296/.327 2.83 FIP
Interesting. So a good version of A Torres.
We could trade them Cuddyer who is apparently worth a first round pick
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Joel Sherman 49s
as @jaysonst said #Tigers have reversed and told teams they will listen on Price, Cespedes, etc. Changes face of marke
Oh man. Cespedes would be the ultimate rental.
Rental is the key word. Have a couple days after world series to resign him. Then he is gone for good.
According to sources there is a third team involved in the Dodgers/Marlins trade which is bigger than being reported
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In comment 12391941 Headhunter said:
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Joel Sherman 49s
as @jaysonst said #Tigers have reversed and told teams they will listen on Price, Cespedes, etc. Changes face of marke
Oh man. Cespedes would be the ultimate rental.
Rental is the key word. Have a couple days after world series to resign him. Then he is gone for good.
I get that but as far as impact bat we could add right now? I think Cespedes would be the biggest addition that could help us THIS year. He'd probably cost less than Gomez, Bruce, and others as well because of his rental status.
Headhunter : 3:45 pm : link : reply
and we are going to lose a player(s) that are going to cause us pain. I'm preparing myself
Could be good news if it's the right bat and we don't give up the farm...
No way we'd give up Wheeler for any rental. I think we'd part with Fulmer for Cespedes but for an abysmal Upton who has been worst player in baseball bad for almost two months? I think he'd cost less personally.
I normally like to take a long view of things and not be shortsighted, but you've got Harvey, DeGrom, Syndergaard, and Matz under team control for a while. Would you really miss Fulmer?
Fulmer and Cecchini for Upton, Kimbrel... WOWZAS!! lol jk
He's been a huge let down for me too obviously but the story isn't completely written. He could still be a useful platoon player, clutch bat off the bench in the playoffs. The cruel joke is he was actually heating up at the time of his knee injury, but thats life as a Mets fan.
Fulmer and Cecchini for Upton, Kimbrel... WOWZAS!! lol jk
Ok. Now your talking. lol. Done deal.
but he's a good clubhouse guy
He was also having his best month in July hitting .310 over 10 games, with 2 homeruns.
We expected WAY more but if you tilt your expectations now as a guy thats going to replace Campbell in a couple weeks thats still a massive upgrade for the bench. He's also owned lefties for his career. With a pretty lefty heavy lineup I think he might still have some use for this team.
He was also having his best month in July hitting .310 over 10 games, with 2 homeruns.
We expected WAY more but if you tilt your expectations now as a guy thats going to replace Campbell in a couple weeks thats still a massive upgrade for the bench. He's also owned lefties for his career. With a pretty lefty heavy lineup I think he might still have some use for this team.
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and we are going to lose a player(s) that are going to cause us pain. I'm preparing myself
I normally like to take a long view of things and not be shortsighted, but you've got Harvey, DeGrom, Syndergaard, and Matz under team control for a while. Would you really miss Fulmer?
Just seems like too much value for a struggling Upton regardless of that however.
We talked about 3 teams yesterday (I think it was Shecky?) but he said our FO just isn't creative enough - I actually think something like that makes a lot of sense though. Though I'd want to swap in Nimmo for Cecchini.
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Wheeler and Cecchini to Detroit, Price to the Dodgers, Puig to the Mets, see it's that easy! #Mets
We talked about 3 teams yesterday (I think it was Shecky?) but he said our FO just isn't creative enough - I actually think something like that makes a lot of sense though. Though I'd want to swap in Nimmo for Cecchini.
As would I but we have enough pitching to roll the dice on an UBER talent like Puig. This team could use some swag, some flavor, some gusto amongst the position players. Signed through 2019. Fun to watch. DO IT!
I'd still consider doing it.
And I was pissed they didn't sign Morse. We all make mistakes lol
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and we are going to lose a player(s) that are going to cause us pain. I'm preparing myself
I normally like to take a long view of things and not be shortsighted, but you've got Harvey, DeGrom, Syndergaard, and Matz under team control for a while. Would you really miss Fulmer?
An asset is worth what an asset is worth. Fulmer is not less valuable simply because we have lots of good SPs already. He is more tradable because of that reason, but not less valuable.
Also, Fulmer might not debut until 2017. 2018 if he gets hurt (remember, he's only 22).
Would Wheeler/Fulmer have similiar value around to other teams?
Was told the Mets aren't in on Cespedes at this point.
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Jon Heyman @JonHeymanCBS
david price on market could aid rangers, as dodgers & others will look closely at price now. (texas not in rental market)
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Jon Heyman @JonHeymanCBS
after phils yet again ask for severino or judge, yanks will talk to tigers on price. cbsprt.co/1MVdbsM
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Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1
[Rajai] Davis plays all 3 OF spots, can start for Grandy v. tough LH, adds speed element off bench #Mets lack. #Tigers
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Jayson Stark @jaysonst
Third club in #Dodgers-#Marlins believed to be a team that winds up with Michael Morse. He has no apparent fit on the Dodgers roster.
@jcrasnick
A MLB exec on Gerardo Parra: "I wonder if the Brewers over-played their hand on him. I just expected him to be gone by now.''
#Mets leverage with Parra and Will Venable enhanced by other deals. #Royals and #Angels no longer have openings for LH OF bats.
Thats why I thought his value would fall by Friday. I think we are going to see a lot of movement at the last minute this year.
#Mets leverage with Parra and Will Venable enhanced by other deals. #Royals and #Angels no longer have openings for LH OF bats.
We are assuming if the Brewers overplayed their hand and the price drops. I don't think they have a prayer at getting Fulmer and out of the first round picks Nimmo is the only one they'd have a shot at. Don't think Sandy does that either. Gsellman/Cessa and Reynolds. Take it or leave it. Something like that.
I still probably do that although that would sting a little too.
Sure but now we are hearing that many teams are no longer in the Parra sweepstakes. They may have overplayed their hand. We'll see.
Sure, I agree. But if Sandy ends up with more leverage than anticipated maybe he can come up with a lesser combination. I don't know. Wont be terribly upset if we lost Montero either.
There is a general feeling this has become more of a buyers market. I haven't read or seen a reference to the Parra situation specifically. As usual you craft the dialogue to suit your position.
There is a general feeling this has become more of a buyers market. I haven't read or seen a reference to the Parra situation specifically. As usual you craft the dialogue to suit your position.
I guess somebody as brain dead as you would have trouble understanding
@jcrasnick
#Mets leverage with Parra and Will Venable enhanced by other deals. #Royals and #Angels no longer have openings for LH OF bats.
Figures.
Ummmmm, you may want to look at DMM's 4:56 post before you continue to bash Z...
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I haven't read or seen a reference to the Parra situation specifically. As usual you craft the dialogue to suit your position.
Ummmmm, you may want to look at DMM's 4:56 post before you continue to bash Z...
Thanks Speedy. This guy has gotten to the point of just bashing me at every moment like a 12 year old. Complete moron.