everyone is healthy, everyone is completely back to pre surgery strength and command. I don't know, I go back and forth on all 5 of them. They each
can make a case for being the best on this staff. Who has the highest ceiling?
guess I'd still have Harvey #1 but hard to say if he's ever as good as what he was before surgery. Not saying he won't be but who knows? Right now deGrom is an ace, hard to project anyone being better than that.
I'd like to see Wheeler's command with a pain free arm
debate to have. I think the team is now poised to go on a run. Getting to 10 games over .500 should be attainable. They have the easiest schedule for the remainder of the year than any other team in MLB.
RE: I'd like to see Wheeler's command with a pain free arm
might be he never would of had great command, but I want to see for myself
Wheeler wasn't hurt his entire pro career. His command has never been even average. He's 26 in May, his command is extremely unlikely to suddenly be much better.
where every pitch out of his hand was spotted exactly where he wanted. I'm sorry but I don't believe he has pitched pain free in years. We shall see soon enough
where every pitch out of his hand was spotted exactly where he wanted. I'm sorry but I don't believe he has pitched pain free in years. We shall see soon enough
So he's pitched with a bum elbow for 5 years? I'm not buying that sorry.
post TJ and Ula nerve surgery and still doesn't have command, I'll concede that he will never have the command necessary to dominate. But I'll make that judgement by watching not reading.
I wouldn't trade Herrera for a rental. He's our future at 2B.
post TJ and Ula nerve surgery and still doesn't have command, I'll concede that he will never have the command necessary to dominate. But I'll make that judgement by watching not reading.
Is there precedent for TJ surgery improving a guy's control?
Bruce, reduce the price by taking back Phillips as part of the deal. The more I think about it, the price for Reddick would likely be silly if Beane got that for Zobrist and Clippard.
Nimmo, Cessa and a 3rd piece for Bruce and Phillips do it
RE: I would only move Herrera for non-rental players
was pulled early last night. Haven't seen any update ala injury, rest, trade etc. I'd deal Herrera for Reddick if he's the big piece. Reddick is exactly what the doctor ordered (without giving up one of the pitchers). Huge personality, players hard, top 10 RF in almost every category and good salary.
has been worth 4.5, 2.8, 2.5 and now 2.5 WAR again the past 4 seasons, above average base runner. ZIPS is projecting him to finish with 3.6 WAR this season which would add 1.1 wins to the Mets over their LF situation. 1.1 wins could easily make the difference. The 2 trades they made so far are projected to add .5 (they likely lost a small % of that to losing Mejia).
But adding a RF means what for Granderson/Conforto?
Either Conforto has to go back down or Granderson has to go to CF. I'm not exactly enamored with either option. Both of those things kind of subtract from the addition.
was pulled early last night. Haven't seen any update ala injury, rest, trade etc. I'd deal Herrera for Reddick if he's the big piece. Reddick is exactly what the doctor ordered (without giving up one of the pitchers). Huge personality, players hard, top 10 RF in almost every category and good salary.
Beccerra pulled too. wasn't he? Looked like it from the box score.
RE: But adding a RF means what for Granderson/Conforto?
Either Conforto has to go back down or Granderson has to go to CF. I'm not exactly enamored with either option. Both of those things kind of subtract from the addition.
Reddick has experience in CF and LF. If we are limited to CF only then we likely aren't adding a bat at all. Parra's CF defense also has horrendous marks the past 2 seasons so given his price I'm not sure his position even helps
change up and Warthen Slider. He is able to go from pitching backwards the first time through the lineup( breaking ball putting them away with a fastball) then reverse it the next time through the lineup and keep the hitters totally off balanced
was pulled early last night. Haven't seen any update ala injury, rest, trade etc. I'd deal Herrera for Reddick if he's the big piece. Reddick is exactly what the doctor ordered (without giving up one of the pitchers). Huge personality, players hard, top 10 RF in almost every category and good salary.
Beccerra pulled too. wasn't he? Looked like it from the box score.
Yup he was pulled early too. Herrera and Becerra for a Bruce or Gomez i'd be fine with. For a rental I'd absolutely puke.
Clearly the Mets aren't operating that way if they've spoken to CIN about Bruce. I just wouldn't be thrilled about either sending Conforto back or having to put someone out of position in CF.
The defensive grading on Parra doesn't really sway me. I put close to zero stock in that stuff. I have a hard time believing a GG OFer would suddenly be a disaster just 2 years later at age 28.
I dont know who has the best ceiling. Harvey, deGrom, and Thor all have cy young ability. Matz and Wheeler have the arms for it at least.
Im going to be sad as shit if 2013 was peak Harvey. Im really counting on him to be an ace next season. But I'm also counting on a carousel where one of these kids is always down with TJS.
Clearly the Mets aren't operating that way if they've spoken to CIN about Bruce. I just wouldn't be thrilled about either sending Conforto back or having to put someone out of position in CF.
The defensive grading on Parra doesn't really sway me. I put close to zero stock in that stuff. I have a hard time believing a GG OFer would suddenly be a disaster just 2 years later at age 28.
But Parra is a rental with a very high price which you just said you didn't want. Which CF is a non-rental that will cost anything less than top guys that also represents a clear upgrade? Horrendous will Venable? It's Gomez or bust basically by your rules. Parra has had a great season and tons of teams are in. I'm not giving up 2 big prospects (or even 1 TOP) guy for .5 of Parra. Seems very silly to me. They already turned down Meisner for him, Law had Meisner as the Mets #6 prospect. I'm not huge on Nimmo but Nimmo+ for half a year of Parra would be disappointing
Thor - as others have mentioned, he is younger and no arm issues.
Matz is interesting, and it is a big if, long term health wise, offers something even harder to find - power starting lefty. there are just so few in the league
Right now, Harvey is 3rd on the team
Wheeler clearly has the arm, but until the control issues get corrected, he is going to expend too much energy and deal with too many runners. Him at no 5 however is ridiculous
Thor - as others have mentioned, he is younger and no arm issues.
Matz is interesting, and it is a big if, long term health wise, offers something even harder to find - power starting lefty. there are just so few in the league
Right now, Harvey is 3rd on the team
Wheeler clearly has the arm, but until the control issues get corrected, he is going to expend too much energy and deal with too many runners. Him at no 5 however is ridiculous
What? How would me ranking Wheeler 5th be "ridiculous" given what you just said? Who would be 5th then?
Clearly the Mets aren't operating that way if they've spoken to CIN about Bruce. I just wouldn't be thrilled about either sending Conforto back or having to put someone out of position in CF.
The defensive grading on Parra doesn't really sway me. I put close to zero stock in that stuff. I have a hard time believing a GG OFer would suddenly be a disaster just 2 years later at age 28.
But Parra is a rental with a very high price which you just said you didn't want. Which CF is a non-rental that will cost anything less than top guys that also represents a clear upgrade? Horrendous will Venable? It's Gomez or bust basically by your rules. Parra has had a great season and tons of teams are in. I'm not giving up 2 big prospects (or even 1 TOP) guy for .5 of Parra. Seems very silly to me. They already turned down Meisner for him, Law had Meisner as the Mets #6 prospect. I'm not huge on Nimmo but Nimmo+ for half a year of Parra would be disappointing
LOL, dude.. there are no "rules"
I never said I "didn't want a rental" I said I wouldn't give up Herrera for one. Big difference.
Second of all, yes.. I think Gomez is the best fit. Doesn't mean I would be out on everyone else. I am just curious as to what happens with Conforto or Granderson if we acquire a CO. I think the biggest way to improve the team is to add someone who doesn't require sending Conforto down. Which yeah, narrows it down to Gomez or Parra. Doesn't mean I wouldn't want Bruce, Reddick or Cespedes if we could get any of them. In fact, I've been very much in favor of Bruce this entire time.
I believe that Thor will be the best pitcher out of this current crop of studs that we are currently witnessing. His stuff is just filthy and so consistent.
Then dump Murphy and recoup a prospect. Jump for joy on that one.
I'm still the only one who sees these rental prices and wonders why Murphy hasn't been shipped off already...
No, I wonder the same thing, now that there are MULTIPLE cheaper and possibly better options available.
I suggested weeks ago, that whether the Mets were buyers or sellers at the deadline, Murphy should be gone. I really hope they do not offer him the QO after the season if he's still here.
That's why this team NEEDS to make the playoffs this year. They need each of these kids on the public stage, they need to be the talk of baseball for at least a week in October. Leading to a ton of talk all offseason. You can't buy that energy and PR, oh wait - yes you can :)
Team could use his shot in the arm. His personality. His flair. Basically, he is the second base version of a Jimmy Rollins. This team could actually use it.
Secondly, he immediately makes Murphy available to recoupe a prospect. Third, Herrera can now be used as a chip, you have that flexibility. Imagine what can be acquired for Wheeler, Herrera and Fulmer in the offseason!?!?!?
Phillips production would still provide you $10-$15mm in "value" according to WAR, with the potential of more with little downside risk of less. That happens to be his contract cost. So far from an albatross contract to be taking on in a typical salary dump.
Team is an INSTANT contender this year, next year and the following year.
Wheeler wasn't hurt his entire pro career. His command has never been even average. He's 26 in May, his command is extremely unlikely to suddenly be much better.
Reddick 3-4 triple short of the cycle
Cespedes 2-4 home run
Bruce 1-4 rbi
Gomez 1-4 rbi, double, run
Wheeler 81 Minor league games 4.0 BB/9
deGrom minors majors 2.2
Harvey 2.2
Thor 2.6, and so far 2.1
Matz (minors) 3.0
So he's pitched with a bum elbow for 5 years? I'm not buying that sorry.
Agreed. Though for Gomez I would, hip concern and all. Gomez could help put the 2015 team in the playoffs and beyond
Is there precedent for TJ surgery improving a guy's control?
Nimmo, Cessa and a 3rd piece for Bruce and Phillips do it
Reddick isn't a rental, signed through next year
He's still just 22 years old for another month.
Matz didn't hit the majors until 24, Harvey 23, deGrom 26 and Wheeler 23 and of the 5 only Thor hasn't had TJ.
And as his manager describes him he throws 97mph with a hook from hell, if he harnesses his potential I can see him with the highest upside.
Beccerra pulled too. wasn't he? Looked like it from the box score.
Reddick has experience in CF and LF. If we are limited to CF only then we likely aren't adding a bat at all. Parra's CF defense also has horrendous marks the past 2 seasons so given his price I'm not sure his position even helps
Quote:
was pulled early last night. Haven't seen any update ala injury, rest, trade etc. I'd deal Herrera for Reddick if he's the big piece. Reddick is exactly what the doctor ordered (without giving up one of the pitchers). Huge personality, players hard, top 10 RF in almost every category and good salary.
Beccerra pulled too. wasn't he? Looked like it from the box score.
Yup he was pulled early too. Herrera and Becerra for a Bruce or Gomez i'd be fine with. For a rental I'd absolutely puke.
The defensive grading on Parra doesn't really sway me. I put close to zero stock in that stuff. I have a hard time believing a GG OFer would suddenly be a disaster just 2 years later at age 28.
he'll make that Dickey trade even more lopsided.
he has to be top 10 prospect right now, maybe top 3 position player.
vs the top 20 mlb prospects he's batting .343 in 111 plate appearances (if I read that right).
I would not trade him and Herrera for a rental.
Im going to be sad as shit if 2013 was peak Harvey. Im really counting on him to be an ace next season. But I'm also counting on a carousel where one of these kids is always down with TJS.
The defensive grading on Parra doesn't really sway me. I put close to zero stock in that stuff. I have a hard time believing a GG OFer would suddenly be a disaster just 2 years later at age 28.
But Parra is a rental with a very high price which you just said you didn't want. Which CF is a non-rental that will cost anything less than top guys that also represents a clear upgrade? Horrendous will Venable? It's Gomez or bust basically by your rules. Parra has had a great season and tons of teams are in. I'm not giving up 2 big prospects (or even 1 TOP) guy for .5 of Parra. Seems very silly to me. They already turned down Meisner for him, Law had Meisner as the Mets #6 prospect. I'm not huge on Nimmo but Nimmo+ for half a year of Parra would be disappointing
Matz is interesting, and it is a big if, long term health wise, offers something even harder to find - power starting lefty. there are just so few in the league
Right now, Harvey is 3rd on the team
Wheeler clearly has the arm, but until the control issues get corrected, he is going to expend too much energy and deal with too many runners. Him at no 5 however is ridiculous
I'm still the only one who sees these rental prices and wonders why Murphy hasn't been shipped off already...
Matz is interesting, and it is a big if, long term health wise, offers something even harder to find - power starting lefty. there are just so few in the league
Right now, Harvey is 3rd on the team
Wheeler clearly has the arm, but until the control issues get corrected, he is going to expend too much energy and deal with too many runners. Him at no 5 however is ridiculous
What? How would me ranking Wheeler 5th be "ridiculous" given what you just said? Who would be 5th then?
I'm still the only one who sees these rental prices and wonders why Murphy hasn't been shipped off already...
While Phillips is merely a dump I still think he's the type reenergized in a pennant race with a new team. If ti brings down the price, do it up.
Quote:
Clearly the Mets aren't operating that way if they've spoken to CIN about Bruce. I just wouldn't be thrilled about either sending Conforto back or having to put someone out of position in CF.
The defensive grading on Parra doesn't really sway me. I put close to zero stock in that stuff. I have a hard time believing a GG OFer would suddenly be a disaster just 2 years later at age 28.
But Parra is a rental with a very high price which you just said you didn't want. Which CF is a non-rental that will cost anything less than top guys that also represents a clear upgrade? Horrendous will Venable? It's Gomez or bust basically by your rules. Parra has had a great season and tons of teams are in. I'm not giving up 2 big prospects (or even 1 TOP) guy for .5 of Parra. Seems very silly to me. They already turned down Meisner for him, Law had Meisner as the Mets #6 prospect. I'm not huge on Nimmo but Nimmo+ for half a year of Parra would be disappointing
LOL, dude.. there are no "rules"
I never said I "didn't want a rental" I said I wouldn't give up Herrera for one. Big difference.
Second of all, yes.. I think Gomez is the best fit. Doesn't mean I would be out on everyone else. I am just curious as to what happens with Conforto or Granderson if we acquire a CO. I think the biggest way to improve the team is to add someone who doesn't require sending Conforto down. Which yeah, narrows it down to Gomez or Parra. Doesn't mean I wouldn't want Bruce, Reddick or Cespedes if we could get any of them. In fact, I've been very much in favor of Bruce this entire time.
I'm still the only one who sees these rental prices and wonders why Murphy hasn't been shipped off already...
No, I wonder the same thing, now that there are MULTIPLE cheaper and possibly better options available.
I suggested weeks ago, that whether the Mets were buyers or sellers at the deadline, Murphy should be gone. I really hope they do not offer him the QO after the season if he's still here.
Is there a better 1-3 right now?
I'd be all for it I just don't see the Mets adding payroll like that.
That's why this team NEEDS to make the playoffs this year. They need each of these kids on the public stage, they need to be the talk of baseball for at least a week in October. Leading to a ton of talk all offseason. You can't buy that energy and PR, oh wait - yes you can :)
Secondly, he immediately makes Murphy available to recoupe a prospect. Third, Herrera can now be used as a chip, you have that flexibility. Imagine what can be acquired for Wheeler, Herrera and Fulmer in the offseason!?!?!?
Phillips production would still provide you $10-$15mm in "value" according to WAR, with the potential of more with little downside risk of less. That happens to be his contract cost. So far from an albatross contract to be taking on in a typical salary dump.
Team is an INSTANT contender this year, next year and the following year.