seems to play the best "team" defense. They way they run to the ball and hustle...Marinelli has them overachieving.
And they should have an improved pass rush with Hardy, Randy Gregory, and an improved DeMarcus Lawrence. They make me nervous. Their weakness is clearly their secondary which I think the Giants can really exploit.
If the whole JPP incident wouldn't have happened....I was really starting to like our defense...on paper.
Save for Seattle and possibly a few others, who in the league
They don't. But if we can avoid a tidal wave of injuries & get solid contributions from some people we should be ok. For sure the run D will be improved.
Has a nice group together. But they always seem to under-achieve at some points.
Giants have some good potential if the Safeties align with promise. The corners are already very solid so if a Safety steps up in a big way it'll be gravy. Rest is just health. Beason and Hankins are pivotal players to be healthy this year.
All three LB positions, DT other than Hankins, CB depth, SS, and all the DEs have much to prove.
We have Hankins, Beason, Prince, DRC, and I'll add Collins and OO based on talent as very good football players. The rest has much to prove on the actual football field of play.
Dallas was the highest ranked NFC East defense... at 19.
It's a crapshoot. I honestly don't have a definitive opinion. I'm inclined to say Dallas again. Not because they're so good on D, but that line and running game is going to once again be great and likely keep the defense off the field more often than us, Washington or Philly.
seems to play the best "team" defense. They way they run to the ball and hustle...Marinelli has them overachieving.
And they should have an improved pass rush with Hardy, Randy Gregory, and an improved DeMarcus Lawrence. They make me nervous. Their weakness is clearly their secondary which I think the Giants can really exploit.
If the whole JPP incident wouldn't have happened....I was really starting to like our defense...on paper.
Good response and I think I would agree with Dallas or Washington having best D in our division.
With new coordinator and possibly no JPP, I am not sure I would put the Giants on top, or at least to start the season .. :-)
Can't say the Giants (even with a 10 fingered JPP) until they improve against the run.
Dallas D was the top ranked in the division last year (IIRC), but that had more to do with Murray and their OL dominating TOP. Let's see how they do without Murray averaging 5.5 ypc. Not a fan of their secondary and their LBs have as many health questions as the Giants.
this is largely the same personnel that gave up 6000 yards last season, with a few hopefully incremental upgrades now in place. There is much to prove.
the JPP loss...Perhaps the biggest improvement of all comes in terms of adjustments-Fewell was lacking in this and was extremely transparent imv..Spags' strength is in adjustments and working well with what he has..
but they were often absolutely historically bad last season, injuries weren't the entire story. An embarrassing lack of toughness and physicality, and it needs to change.
RE: Injuries and a poor DC were contributing factors
but they were often absolutely historically bad last season, injuries weren't the entire story. An embarrassing lack of toughness and physicality, and it needs to change.
I think it's a crap shoot. Whoever stays the healthiest will be the best in the division, but like last year, none will be in the top half of the league.
seems to play the best "team" defense. They way they run to the ball and hustle...Marinelli has them overachieving.
And they should have an improved pass rush with Hardy, Randy Gregory, and an improved DeMarcus Lawrence. They make me nervous. Their weakness is clearly their secondary which I think the Giants can really exploit.
If the whole JPP incident wouldn't have happened....I was really starting to like our defense...on paper.
No dominant unit. It's an offensive league and the great defenses in this day and age are rare. If we had a healthy JPP I'd argue we might have the edge over our rivals. That ship has sailed unfortunately.
Unless he reverts to the mean, you can make a pretty good case for Philly as the best defense in the division on paper. I think their front seven is the best. The secondary? Well, they need to be right about Byron Maxwell.
As for Dallas, whether they are decent up front depends in large part on what they get from Hardy. Having his suspension reduced so dramatically was a huge break, but he still has to produce. He and the kids, Lawrence and Gregory, have to provide a pass rush.
but that can change, esp since they have almost an entirely new secondary......and will be interesting to see how the LB from Buffalo plays coming of ACL.
The thing that hurts them, is again, Chip Kelly. No regard for time of possession and that defense has played the most snaps the last two years I believe.
When you compare them, versus a team like Seattle, the disparity is huge.
Time of possession is extremely important in the NFL IMO. Kelly will tell you points (well no kidding, that's obvious the team that scores more wins). When you are tired, it's easier to quit. The Eagles defense is worn out by year's end.
When his offense isn't clicking, he's exposing his defense to not only more minutes but putting his team potentially in a hole in regards to the scoreboard.
Unless he reverts to the mean, you can make a pretty good case for Philly as the best defense in the division on paper. I think their front seven is the best. The secondary? Well, they need to be right about Byron Maxwell.
As for Dallas, whether they are decent up front depends in large part on what they get from Hardy. Having his suspension reduced so dramatically was a huge break, but he still has to produce. He and the kids, Lawrence and Gregory, have to provide a pass rush.
I'd say it's a good bet Barwin reverts back to the mean....he's not THAT good.
I would say Connor Barwin and Fletcher Cox are their best players on D, but I'm not ready to say they're pro-bowl caliber just yet.
Fletcher Cox is a All Pro level talent. Mychal Kendricks is a Pro Bowl level player. Barwin is very good. I really like Rowe in the draft. And Jenkins and Maxwell are both good players.
Boykin is a terrific slot CB and Vinny Curry is a very good rotational pass rusher...
I would say Connor Barwin and Fletcher Cox are their best players on D, but I'm not ready to say they're pro-bowl caliber just yet.
Fletcher Cox is a All Pro level talent. Mychal Kendricks is a Pro Bowl level player. Barwin is very good. I really like Rowe in the draft. And Jenkins and Maxwell are both good players.
Boykin is a terrific slot CB and Vinny Curry is a very good rotational pass rusher...
And the really weird thing? Boykin, Kendricks, and Curry are all probably leaving next year...........for some reason, Kelly doesn't value them.
Philly has thought our secondary sucks for the last decade
but they were often absolutely historically bad last season, injuries weren't the entire story. An embarrassing lack of toughness and physicality, and it needs to change.
To piggyback off BB'56, I think scheme, ability to adjust, and a very different (more aggressive) attitude will make some evident positive differences as the season progresses. This with the usual caveat about injuries, of course.
ahead of Eagles if Dallas was ranked 19th last season. I think it will be interesting to see how good the Eagles defense can be. If their offense can prove people wrong with those changes they made I think they can do well this season.
8 of our probable 11 on D are suspect. With Hankins, Prince and DRC the only sure things and Prince is coming off a serious injury. I'd say the Eagles have the strongest 11 on D.
count Beason as a strength for the Giants is just nuts ... he's broken and hasn't played a full season yet for the Giants and almost certainly never will ... the fact he's still penciled in as the starter speaks volumes about the holes this team has yet to fill
I am hoping we finish no worse than 10th in run defense even without JPP. That would mean we'd have to stay otherwise VERY healthy.
I'm not counting on JPP.
I am counting on Beason, Ellis, Wynn, Kennard, Taylor and Collins to be healthy & stout against the run.
I do expect we'll struggle on defense for the first four or so games of the year. Mistakes in the secondary means guys like WR Dez Bryant will torch us UNLESS our corners play standout ball.
RE: Dallas was the highest ranked NFC East defense... at 19.
It's a crapshoot. I honestly don't have a definitive opinion. I'm inclined to say Dallas again. Not because they're so good on D, but that line and running game is going to once again be great and likely keep the defense off the field more often than us, Washington or Philly.
Yep. They will control tons of clock and keep that D very very fresh.
Now it's anyone's guess.
And they should have an improved pass rush with Hardy, Randy Gregory, and an improved DeMarcus Lawrence. They make me nervous. Their weakness is clearly their secondary which I think the Giants can really exploit.
If the whole JPP incident wouldn't have happened....I was really starting to like our defense...on paper.
With an average OL and an average D put forth by Spags, we should be vying for a spot in the tourney, imv..Then it's Eli time
JPP, Jenkins, Hankins,Odigizuwa, Beason, McClain, Prince, DRC, Landon Collins, Ayers....that's alot of good players.
I'll settle for mid-pack.
Giants have some good potential if the Safeties align with promise. The corners are already very solid so if a Safety steps up in a big way it'll be gravy. Rest is just health. Beason and Hankins are pivotal players to be healthy this year.
The Giants defense lacks talent, period. Even with a healthy JPP.
We have Hankins, Beason, Prince, DRC, and I'll add Collins and OO based on talent as very good football players. The rest has much to prove on the actual football field of play.
And they should have an improved pass rush with Hardy, Randy Gregory, and an improved DeMarcus Lawrence. They make me nervous. Their weakness is clearly their secondary which I think the Giants can really exploit.
If the whole JPP incident wouldn't have happened....I was really starting to like our defense...on paper.
Good response and I think I would agree with Dallas or Washington having best D in our division.
With new coordinator and possibly no JPP, I am not sure I would put the Giants on top, or at least to start the season .. :-)
The Giants defense lacks talent, period. Even with a healthy JPP.
Which players did I mention, are not good players or unproven? Odigizuwa for sure...but it sounds like he's a talented guy.
Dallas D was the top ranked in the division last year (IIRC), but that had more to do with Murray and their OL dominating TOP. Let's see how they do without Murray averaging 5.5 ypc. Not a fan of their secondary and their LBs have as many health questions as the Giants.
What NYG must demonstrate is at least solid run defense, a lack of which has repeatedly killed them in recent seasons.
We shall see of course
That's fair
I think it's a crap shoot. Whoever stays the healthiest will be the best in the division, but like last year, none will be in the top half of the league.
And they should have an improved pass rush with Hardy, Randy Gregory, and an improved DeMarcus Lawrence. They make me nervous. Their weakness is clearly their secondary which I think the Giants can really exploit.
If the whole JPP incident wouldn't have happened....I was really starting to like our defense...on paper.
I would say this as well.
I would say Connor Barwin and Fletcher Cox are their best players on D, but I'm not ready to say they're pro-bowl caliber just yet.
As for Dallas, whether they are decent up front depends in large part on what they get from Hardy. Having his suspension reduced so dramatically was a huge break, but he still has to produce. He and the kids, Lawrence and Gregory, have to provide a pass rush.
The thing that hurts them, is again, Chip Kelly. No regard for time of possession and that defense has played the most snaps the last two years I believe.
When you compare them, versus a team like Seattle, the disparity is huge.
Time of possession is extremely important in the NFL IMO. Kelly will tell you points (well no kidding, that's obvious the team that scores more wins). When you are tired, it's easier to quit. The Eagles defense is worn out by year's end.
When his offense isn't clicking, he's exposing his defense to not only more minutes but putting his team potentially in a hole in regards to the scoreboard.
The defense goes as he goes.
As for Dallas, whether they are decent up front depends in large part on what they get from Hardy. Having his suspension reduced so dramatically was a huge break, but he still has to produce. He and the kids, Lawrence and Gregory, have to provide a pass rush.
I'd say it's a good bet Barwin reverts back to the mean....he's not THAT good.
Quote:
have on defense that is Pro Bowl caliber?
I would say Connor Barwin and Fletcher Cox are their best players on D, but I'm not ready to say they're pro-bowl caliber just yet.
Fletcher Cox is a All Pro level talent. Mychal Kendricks is a Pro Bowl level player. Barwin is very good. I really like Rowe in the draft. And Jenkins and Maxwell are both good players.
Boykin is a terrific slot CB and Vinny Curry is a very good rotational pass rusher...
No linebacking, no secondary, and JPP now gone (their words).
It's funny, we kinda think we have the best combo of corners when healthy, but they think our CBs suck.
Perception.
Quote:
In comment 12391499 Fish said:
Quote:
have on defense that is Pro Bowl caliber?
I would say Connor Barwin and Fletcher Cox are their best players on D, but I'm not ready to say they're pro-bowl caliber just yet.
Fletcher Cox is a All Pro level talent. Mychal Kendricks is a Pro Bowl level player. Barwin is very good. I really like Rowe in the draft. And Jenkins and Maxwell are both good players.
Boykin is a terrific slot CB and Vinny Curry is a very good rotational pass rusher...
And the really weird thing? Boykin, Kendricks, and Curry are all probably leaving next year...........for some reason, Kelly doesn't value them.
To piggyback off BB'56, I think scheme, ability to adjust, and a very different (more aggressive) attitude will make some evident positive differences as the season progresses. This with the usual caveat about injuries, of course.
The Giants defense lacks talent, period. Even with a healthy JPP.
So, unproven players equal untalented players?
I guess Dallas has the best. Obviously the best in the division last year but as others point out, seemed to smoke and mirrors and DeMarco Murray.
Every team has concerns all over the D.
Therefore, sorry to say it, Dallas has the best D.
I'm not counting on JPP.
I am counting on Beason, Ellis, Wynn, Kennard, Taylor and Collins to be healthy & stout against the run.
I do expect we'll struggle on defense for the first four or so games of the year. Mistakes in the secondary means guys like WR Dez Bryant will torch us UNLESS our corners play standout ball.
Yep. They will control tons of clock and keep that D very very fresh.