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Why Flowers Should Be The Right Tackle

jingle_jangle : 7/29/2015 3:33 pm
First, a longtime lurker who finally got the courage to join the fray!


I have read a lot of discussion about our tackle position and I wanted to throw in my two cents.

The Giants should stick with their plan of having Flowers start off at RT. In my view, it is far likelier that he will be more adept at pass protection at RT his rookie year than LT. Further, it allows Beatty to return to LT when he comes back later this year. Putting Flowers at LT to start risks having two major issues at tackle rather then likely one. The vacant LT position, hopefully Jake Long, with a little TE help should be able to hold down the fort adequately enough until Beatty comes back.

Besides it would always be easier to insert Flowers at LT over the course of the year if need be rather than pull him from LT if say Beatty returns, or he is not up to the challenge.

I say stick with the plan...thoughts?
1) as of now, Newhouse or Moseley would then be the LT  
Victor in CT : 7/29/2015 3:38 pm : link
2) you don't know if Pugh will be ready to play by Oct as eli4life pointed out on another thread

3) Flowers was drafted to be the future LT. Well, the future is now.

4) If they do get Long in here, let him make the move to RT. I'd rather have an experienced Long deal with Schwartz/Jerry at RG than Flowers.
They have to sign Long for this to make sense  
BillT : 7/29/2015 3:38 pm : link
What if they don't. Or what if Long isn't up to LT duty and can only play RT. It's a ok idea but it depends on other things happening that haven't happened yet.
should say Beatty, not Pugh  
Victor in CT : 7/29/2015 3:38 pm : link
sorry
It's not crazy to think that  
Enoch : 7/29/2015 3:40 pm : link
Flowers might have a bumpier start at RT than he would at LT. His college experience was all on the left side, and NFL DEs move around for matchup purposes so often these days that I'm not sure it's true anymore that an RT is going to consistently see the easier matchups in the passing game.
Welcome to crazyville  
Torrag : 7/29/2015 3:43 pm : link
...and you're wrong Flowers should be the LT given Beatty's injury and the current roster options. It isn't really debatable but that's what BBI is here for.
You say that in your view  
Giantology : 7/29/2015 3:46 pm : link
"it is far likelier that he will be more adept at pass protection at RT his rookie year than LT"

What is this view based on?
the focus on Flowers at RT  
JonC : 7/29/2015 3:47 pm : link
leaves a gaping hole at LT, the most important position on the OL.

There is perhaps no better LT on the roster.
RE: You say that in your view  
chris r : 7/29/2015 3:47 pm : link
In comment 12391970 Giantology said:
Quote:
"it is far likelier that he will be more adept at pass protection at RT his rookie year than LT"

What is this view based on?


Because RT is a much less demanding position pass protection wise?
RE: You say that in your view  
jingle_jangle : 7/29/2015 3:51 pm : link
In comment 12391970 Giantology said:
Quote:
"it is far likelier that he will be more adept at pass protection at RT his rookie year than LT"

What is this view based on?


The quality of De's on the two sides and the fact that at least Eli can see that side.
I dont  
jingle_jangle : 7/29/2015 3:52 pm : link
disagree with the general sentiment here.

But here is my question: Then Will Beatty is finished as a Giant?
RE: RE: You say that in your view  
Giantology : 7/29/2015 3:52 pm : link
In comment 12391975 chris r said:
Quote:
In comment 12391970 Giantology said:


Quote:


"it is far likelier that he will be more adept at pass protection at RT his rookie year than LT"

What is this view based on?



Because RT is a much less demanding position pass protection wise?


I don't think that is necessarily true. At least, not as true as it used to be.

Pressure comes from all sides and just about every team moves their best pass rushers around throughout the game.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/04/29/examining-pressure-are-left-tackles-overvalued/ - ( New Window )
RE: 1) as of now, Newhouse or Moseley would then be the LT  
jingle_jangle : 7/29/2015 3:54 pm : link
In comment 12391935 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
2) you don't know if Pugh will be ready to play by Oct as eli4life pointed out on another thread

3) Flowers was drafted to be the future LT. Well, the future is now.

4) If they do get Long in here, let him make the move to RT. I'd rather have an experienced Long deal with Schwartz/Jerry at RG than Flowers.


True, but as of now they will be RT, with the LT an unpolished rookie.

I just see RT as safer for Flowers to begin with, as the Giants clearly planned, and then do the best we can to hold the fort till Will returns.

I do see the points you are making here though. They are def valid.
LT maybe overrated but the  
chris r : 7/29/2015 3:56 pm : link
average RE is a better passrusher than the average LE so its still a more demanding position pass protection wise.
Beatty is on his way out  
JonC : 7/29/2015 4:00 pm : link
also really don't know how much he'll be able to play this season.
You also discount the fact that  
Bob in Newburgh : 7/29/2015 4:02 pm : link
Flowers was a starting LT, at least the last 2 years in college.

Putting him at RT actually involves a change of position. Most handle switching sides okay to well, but some do not.
As the roster stands  
JonC : 7/29/2015 4:03 pm : link
if Flowers is at RT, then Newhouse is the LT.

I'd rather run with the reverse.
RE: As the roster stands  
jingle_jangle : 7/29/2015 4:04 pm : link
In comment 12392017 JonC said:
Quote:
if Flowers is at RT, then Newhouse is the LT.

I'd rather run with the reverse.


Yes, but at least in late October you can hopefully plug Beatty back in. At this point, newhouse or mosely or whatever will be the RT all year!
RE: LT maybe overrated but the  
chris r : 7/29/2015 4:05 pm : link
In comment 12391997 chris r said:
Quote:
average RE is a better passrusher than the average LE so its still a more demanding position pass protection wise.


Actually I see further down in the article the dispute that.
If EF plays LT well  
JonC : 7/29/2015 4:07 pm : link
I doubt they'll kick him to RT to put Beatty back in. Pro teams typically only shuffle OLs as a last resort. Either way, EF is the LT for now.
If their plan is Beatty to LT when healthy  
JonC : 7/29/2015 4:13 pm : link
the problem is still who's the best LT on the roster right now, for my money it's EF.
#1 in 2013 #2 in 2014 #1 in 2015  
arniefez : 7/29/2015 4:14 pm : link
and the OL is still a mess and the DL isn't much better. If the Giants are going to make the playoffs the OL and DL will have surprise us in a good way.
RE: If their plan is Beatty to LT when healthy  
jingle_jangle : 7/29/2015 4:17 pm : link
In comment 12392048 JonC said:
Quote:
the problem is still who's the best LT on the roster right now, for my money it's EF.


I agree with you...EF is the best LT out of active players. But if your gonna put WB back in then you cant pull EF from LT and then just plug him into RT can you?

Thats the crux of my point. Hold serve to October. Otherwise RT is destined to suck this year outside of a suprise from a Mosely type. To me the best line the Giants can field this year is WB at LT and EF at RT since WB cant play any other position.
So, who plays LT now  
JonC : 7/29/2015 4:20 pm : link
until WB is healthy? That's the crux of the debate.

If EF is playing well at LT, leave him there. Make it incumbent upon WB to prove he has utility moving forward, even if it's at RT for 1/2 the season. There's no real "clean" way through this ...
RE: So, who plays LT now  
Jay on the Island : 7/29/2015 4:26 pm : link
In comment 12392079 JonC said:
Quote:
until WB is healthy? That's the crux of the debate.

If EF is playing well at LT, leave him there. Make it incumbent upon WB to prove he has utility moving forward, even if it's at RT for 1/2 the season. There's no real "clean" way through this ...


Agreed I would be shocked if the Giants put Beatty back at LT if Flowers is playing well. They made it clear that they view Flowers as the LT of the future and I can't see them moving him if he is playing well at LT because he is only going to get better with experience. I think Beatty would be more likely to move to RT in that scenario.
i agree that in theory its best to have Flowers play at RT  
Mighty : 7/29/2015 4:36 pm : link
this year because its easier to get acclimated to the NFL in that spot and then move over to LT next year. However with the current players on the roster thats just not possible. That would leave Newhouse/Mosely playing LT which is much worse than the other way around.

If a team has a veteran OT that gets cut as a cap casualty though i can see it happening. I dont even see a Jake Long signing changing that because of his injury history. The last thing you want is EF starting at RT then Long getting reinjured say week 3 and then you are forced to move EF over to LT in week 3. Wherever you put EF you have to be fairly confident that you can keep him there consistently for the year.

The Beatty injury sealed it and you just gotta throw him into the fire and let him earn his high draft status. You want the best option to protect your QB blindside and right now he is it.
Without even getting into the discussion about Flowers  
Matt M. : 7/29/2015 4:39 pm : link
You have Long at LT. Well, first of all, he hasn't signed yet. second of all, he may not even pass a physical. Third of all, he has a history of injury problems now. This is who you are saying gives you a better option at LT?
With all the injuries that Long has sustained  
Jay on the Island : 7/29/2015 4:43 pm : link
I think the Giants interest in Long is to come in and play RT or possibly even guard. It does appear that the team really does like Pugh at guard and really doesn't want to move him from there unless they are forced to.
RE: the focus on Flowers at RT  
dguy901 : 7/29/2015 4:46 pm : link
In comment 12391972 JonC said:
Quote:
leaves a gaping hole at LT, the most important position on the OL.

There is perhaps no better LT on the roster.

Disagree! If Flowers stumbles in camp, the obvious move would be to move Pugh to LT. That is where he played in college and I believe his skillset is better suited to the left-side. You then have Flowers at ROT leaving Moseley and Herman to battle it out for LOG. Personnally, I think Herman would beat Moseley out. JMHO.
RE: RE: the focus on Flowers at RT  
Jay on the Island : 7/29/2015 4:55 pm : link
In comment 12392158 dguy901 said:
Quote:
In comment 12391972 JonC said:


Quote:


leaves a gaping hole at LT, the most important position on the OL.

There is perhaps no better LT on the roster.


Disagree! If Flowers stumbles in camp, the obvious move would be to move Pugh to LT. That is where he played in college and I believe his skillset is better suited to the left-side. You then have Flowers at ROT leaving Moseley and Herman to battle it out for LOG. Personnally, I think Herman would beat Moseley out. JMHO.

First off it would be Jerry versus Mosley. What has Herman shown in 3 years that would make you think he has any chance of winning a roster spot let alone the starting LG position. Personally I think Hart has a significantly better shot of winning a starting spot than Herman.
There is probably no other offensive  
B in ALB : 7/29/2015 5:04 pm : link
system better suited to protecting a rookie LT - maybe the veer or broken bone?

He's going to make mistakes, we all know that. Patience is going to be in short supply I fear especially after last season's debacle.

I haven't seen enough of Newhouse to make a proper evaluation on technique - something I enjoy - but I can say Beatty is the one guy we didn't want to see go so early.

But maybe it's a blessing in disguise giving the kid a chance to shine. Sports can be weird like that sometimes.
EF  
OC2.0 : 7/29/2015 5:12 pm : link
Is the LT now & going fwd. The f/o has pretty much gone all in on it. Get used to it folks.
I think that if they sign Long and he's healthy it's smartest  
yatqb : 7/29/2015 5:32 pm : link
to have him at LT and Flowers at RT. But if we don't pick up another guy who can start and do relatively well at LT I think that our only choice is for FLowers to play there.
all  
jingle_jangle : 7/29/2015 5:47 pm : link
great opinions....as some have noted losing Beatty was a pure killer. This o-line could have been very good this year. Maybe they still can...
I can still see this as a rebuilding year.  
Spider 67 : 7/29/2015 5:51 pm : link
Reese's future, as well as the team's, will be determined by Richburg, Pugh and Flowers. Beaty will be back unless this injury is career threatening. These 3 (and Beaty when he comes back)should be playing where they're projected to play in the future. It's not easy for young linemen to bounce around between tackle & guard, left side & right. That's probably why they kept Richburg at guard last year rather than move him in the middle of the season.

This is on the job training year for the line. Same goes for the D-line & linebackers. If they pass the test, the Giants could be ready to seriously compete in 2016 because it'll be possible to fill their remaining holes after this season.
Given the current roster...  
raever : 7/29/2015 6:07 pm : link
Playing Flowers anywhere but at LT makes no sense. Both for this season and the future. If Long or Cherilus are acquired I could see moving him to RT but the organization feels ultimately he will play LT imo.
Pugh isn't playing LT with NYG  
JonC : 7/29/2015 6:51 pm : link
let it go.
Why not just  
AnishPatel : 7/29/2015 6:53 pm : link
start Flowers, if he earns it that is? If he needs help we can always have the RB chip or move the back to pass protect on that side and read out to in.

If Flowers is the long term option, I'd put him in. In fact, in this specific system, it's better to start him now and see how he does. If this was the previous system under Gilbride I would be more skeptical and could agree with you.

However, our system has changed and this benefits us, and makes it easier on the OTs. So I would be fine with Flowers as a LT if TC and staff think he has earned the job.
I think you should get on the horn to Flaherty,  
BlueLou : 7/29/2015 7:29 pm : link
chop chop.
The plan was always for Flowers to be LT and Pugh at LG  
blueblood : 7/30/2015 7:43 am : link
eventually most likely starting next year. The plan just got started a year earlier. Flowers played LT in college. He was also pretty good even with some technique issues that needs to be cleaned up.

Welcome to the fray!  
nicky43 : 7/30/2015 2:05 pm : link
Your idea may be a good one and who knows, they may end up doing that after seeing him with pads on in a few pre-season games.

If Flowers can't handle the LT spot  
TJ : 7/30/2015 2:29 pm : link
the 2nd best LT on the team is Justin Pugh. He's the only guy on the team who has ever started an NFL game at either tackle spot right? Maybe Schwartz has at RT? And Pugh played LT in college.

Pugh may be a much better fit at RT or LG than LT but I just don't see anyone on the team except Flowers who would be better there.
Flowers  
NJGiantFan84 : 7/30/2015 3:00 pm : link
at LT is not ideal. There are going to be growing pains. But I don't think you worry about what is best when a guy comes back. You have to be concerned with what is the best line at the start of the season. If Flowers at LT makes your line better, you go with him. Worry about what to do with Beatty if/when he returns.



I don't think it matters where you put him  
ghost718 : 7/30/2015 6:35 pm : link
Eli is gonna be running to the other side,maybe even straight backwards because you got Marshall Newhouse on the other end.
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