Great at drafting? IFA signing? Spent a lot before the new rules were in place?
A little of both. They do spend quite a bit on IFA's (Osuna quietly has been amazing http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/osunaro01.shtml and they do draft very well. They mix it up college/HS with upside and while it sounds funny on paper they do a fantastic job scouting Canada.
pretty wild the Blue Jays can deal 2 premium prospects in baseball + Becerra, land Donaldson and Tulo (2 elite players) and still be able to add Price (with remaining talent in the system).
are going to try and make this seem like it's the Mets, especially their beat reporters. They still want to trade Gomez and the beat reporters will act like they are doing the Brewers a favor by pushing this agenda and 'helping' Gomez's trade value so the team can still try and trade him before the deadline and that they can then be rewarded with some information down the line.
I'm an anti-Wilpon as anyone else but Gomez has a very fair deal and has another affordable year instead of just being a rental. I really think the docs saw something with his hip and that's why the deal is off.
and it has implications. I buy the facts. The implications? Well, consider the source. It's a MILW beat writer. He writes what info he can get. It's odd to call Melvin diplomatic when he's plainly airing all this dirty laundry.
The problem with the implications -- Mets cheaped out on the deal -- is that the story still has holes in in. For example, the Mets asked for a comp pick back before asking for a pick. So maybe they werent hard up. Problem #1. Problem #2 with the story is way bigger. It skips the crucial step where the Brewers announced the trade. I could buy a story that the Mets nixed a trade as it was getting close because the Wilpons are cheap. But if they agreed to a trade, I really dont buy them nixing it because of pure money fears. And I think the worst of the Wilpons.
The Mets are going to take it on the chin here, at least in the media. Unlike Melvin who is saying Gomez is 100% healthy (which is plainly bullshit), the Mets cant put their version of facts out there. They cant say he had cortisone shots or went to 5 doctors or that they have no idea if it is a groin or hip or whatever.
Dave Gershman @Dave_Gershman 7s7 seconds ago
Names discussed are Flores, Niese, Fulmer. DET pushing for Wheeler
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Dave Gershman @Dave_Gershman 33s33 seconds ago
Again, still hearing Mets talks w/ Tigers for Cespedes ongoing after fallout yesterday. DET would need to take salary for deal to happen
Flores is only 23 and will likely put up Gomez type numbers sometime soon IMO. Wheeler, alone, should have gotten it done. Call me a homer but I'm happy that fell through - think we can do better if we're trading those two. Plus, Gomez' arrow looks like it's pointing down (the hip?).
be looking for? I agree that trading Wheeler for a rental would be brutal, but a bat is definitely needed.
I just can't understand how it always comes down to how much salary the other team is going to eat. SPEND THE FUCKING MONEY AND THE TRADEOFF WILL BE ASSES IN THE SEATS LATE INTO SEPTEMBER. Holy shit is the ownership frustrating.
What's next, we go back to MLB and ask for another loan?
even handle the salary for 2 months of Cespedes? What a joke. Wheeler or Fulmer going to DET would be a disaster for a rental who isn't a superstar. Niese would weaken our rotation and make no sense (unless Matz somehow starts throwing yesterday).
I wouldn't be thrilled with Flores/Cespedes but seems the least offensive of the rumors. If we have to give up a better prospect because we can't handle the salary then I don't really know what to say.
Would Cespedes remaining salary even equal the Wright insurance money?
will never put up Gomez type numbers. That is ludicrous. Gomez was MVP caliber the past few seasons.
Think about the source of a claim that asinine. Not even worth responding to...
Anyway.. if you told me the Mets would lock Cespedes up long-term, I'd deal Wheeler. Knowing I'll never get that assurance and that he'd almost certainly be a rental, Wheeler is too much to give up.
How about salary dump of Austin Jackson and hope he just hates Starbucks? #Mets
I do too - hadn't thought of it until Shecky brought up Seattle and then looked at their roster. He's had 2 awful years there but he'd add some athleticism and he's the kind of guy who can go a short term tear.
will never put up Gomez type numbers. That is ludicrous. Gomez was MVP caliber the past few seasons.
Don't think it's impossible for Flores to put up Gomez type numbers at some point sans the steals. It's probably a top 10% outcome for him, and also ignores that a big part of Gomez' value comes from playing CF.
Dave Gershman @Dave_Gershman 33s33 seconds ago
Again, still hearing Mets talks w/ Tigers for Cespedes ongoing after fallout yesterday. DET would need to take salary for deal to happen
Fucking Wilpons. We'll overpay in talent because they cant balance their personal finances.
Gomez has posted a 118 OPS+ the past 4 seasons, Wilmer Flores averaging 24 homers 32 2b's and 7 triples over 162, Wilmer Flores is one day going to do that? Gomez also (while not a high OBP guy) still has averaged 40+ walks per season Flores has a career .281 OBP and an 81 OPS+
Daniel Wexler @WexlerRules 3h3 hours ago
@injuryexpert Will, maybe I missed it, given what you know what is the long term prognosis for Gomez's hip? Thanks.
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Will Carroll @injuryexpert 12s12 seconds ago
@WexlerRules he's fine
- Talks with MIL went on all day, Flores never entered into conversations until after game started.
- Milwaukee was extremely aggressive shopping Gomez.
- Deal was never agreed to when it got leaked. (don't know who leaked it)
- When it got to medicals the Mets saw something and doctors said "no way"
- Brewers still wanted to deal, Mets didn't, Brewers got upset with Mets
- Francesa hearing money stuff not true, Lagares never in deal
- Deal blew up for 1 reason - Gomez health
- Biggest problem with Mets was leaving Flores out there
- They need to turn around and get another player, only way to fix this
- Milwaukee is no longer a possibility to deal with (Parra out)
- Cespedes is not 1 of their options
- 2 offensive options out there they are trying to obtain (doesn't know who they are, CarGonz, Upton, Reddick)
Gomez has posted a 118 OPS+ the past 4 seasons, Wilmer Flores averaging 24 homers 32 2b's and 7 triples over 162, Wilmer Flores is one day going to do that? Gomez also (while not a high OBP guy) still has averaged 40+ walks per season Flores has a career .281 OBP and an 81 OPS+
Dan, Flores' numbers are actually a bit better than Gomez' numbers were at the same age. Why could Gomez develop but Flores can't? You can't compare Flores at 23 to Gomez at 29. Doesn't work that way.
- Talks with MIL went on all day, Flores never entered into conversations until after game started.
- Milwaukee was extremely aggressive shopping Gomez.
- Deal was never agreed to when it got leaked. (don't know who leaked it)
- When it got to medicals the Mets saw something and doctors said "no way"
- Brewers still wanted to deal, Mets didn't, Brewers got upset with Mets
- Francesa hearing money stuff not true, Lagares never in deal
- Deal blew up for 1 reason - Gomez health
- Biggest problem with Mets was leaving Flores out there
- They need to turn around and get another player, only way to fix this
- Milwaukee is no longer a possibility to deal with (Parra out)
- Cespedes is not 1 of their options
- 2 offensive options out there they are trying to obtain (doesn't know who they are, CarGonz, Upton, Reddick)
How the hell does Francesa, of all people, have all of t his information?
Gomez has posted a 118 OPS+ the past 4 seasons, Wilmer Flores averaging 24 homers 32 2b's and 7 triples over 162, Wilmer Flores is one day going to do that? Gomez also (while not a high OBP guy) still has averaged 40+ walks per season Flores has a career .281 OBP and an 81 OPS+
Dan, Flores' numbers are actually a bit better than Gomez' numbers were at the same age. Why could Gomez develop but Flores can't? You can't compare Flores at 23 to Gomez at 29. Doesn't work that way.
In that case every 23 year old has good odds of being as good as player X. Flores has been terrible by every measure beyond a few homers. No reason to believe some unbelievable development is on it's way. .281 OBP alone is horrifying.
Tejada is a turd but this idea Flores hasn't been given ample chance is ridiculous. 200 major league games is more "time" than most "non monster" prospects get. He's been an utter failure offensively. Defense better than the "awful" people expected but that combination = not valuable.
- Talks with MIL went on all day, Flores never entered into conversations until after game started.
- Milwaukee was extremely aggressive shopping Gomez.
- Deal was never agreed to when it got leaked. (don't know who leaked it)
- When it got to medicals the Mets saw something and doctors said "no way"
- Brewers still wanted to deal, Mets didn't, Brewers got upset with Mets
- Francesa hearing money stuff not true, Lagares never in deal
- Deal blew up for 1 reason - Gomez health
- Biggest problem with Mets was leaving Flores out there
- They need to turn around and get another player, only way to fix this
- Milwaukee is no longer a possibility to deal with (Parra out)
- Cespedes is not 1 of their options
- 2 offensive options out there they are trying to obtain (doesn't know who they are, CarGonz, Upton, Reddick)
This sounds likely. Also would explain why the Mets started Flores.
Gotta wait and see. 2 days ago everyone was so sure Gomez was costing "the moon" and that wound up not being the case.
Too much BS out there.
Zack Wheeler was still a pretty high price for a guy signed for one more season. Bruce is signed for 2 more and the Reds likely know the Mets are desperate now. I'd be pretty shocked if Wheeler/Flores were enough at this point.
reported last night that it was the hip that blew up the trade:
Quote:
As it turns out, it was the Mets' concern over Gomez's hip that nixed his trade to the Mets, two sources told the Journal Sentinel early Thursday morning.
After noting that his paper's first report was that Wheeler's meds nixed it:
Quote:
Late Wednesday evening it was reported, including in the Journal Sentinel newspaper, that the reason the trade fell through was that the Brewers
(and BTW, attributing the Wheeler report to his paper is scummy -- he reported it via twitter).
So this asshole has now reported that it was (1) Wheeler's arm, (2) Gomez's hip (according to "sources", and now (3) strongly suggesting it was the Mets' cheapness. In the course of about 16 hours. With no sourcing for the insinuations about the Mets's motives. Seems like crappy reporting.
Also, his article said that "HIPAA laws prevented Brewers general manager Doug Melvin from commenting on anyone's physical issues." Which is pretty funny because now Melvin is talking about Gomez's physical issues. Again, what gives? Link - ( New Window )
Gotta wait and see. 2 days ago everyone was so sure Gomez was costing "the moon" and that wound up not being the case.
Too much BS out there.
Zack Wheeler was still a pretty high price for a guy signed for one more season. Bruce is signed for 2 more and the Reds likely know the Mets are desperate now. I'd be pretty shocked if Wheeler/Flores were enough at this point.
Wheeler in a Bruce deal is way, way different than Wheeler in a Cespedes deal though.
no doubt. I was merely responding to the price for Bruce. Wheeler for a rental would be absolutely awful. Wheeler for Bruce is something I'd sign for this instant, I just would be surprised if the Gomez package netted Bruce.
Gomez has posted a 118 OPS+ the past 4 seasons, Wilmer Flores averaging 24 homers 32 2b's and 7 triples over 162, Wilmer Flores is one day going to do that? Gomez also (while not a high OBP guy) still has averaged 40+ walks per season Flores has a career .281 OBP and an 81 OPS+
Dan, Flores' numbers are actually a bit better than Gomez' numbers were at the same age. Why could Gomez develop but Flores can't? You can't compare Flores at 23 to Gomez at 29. Doesn't work that way.
In that case every 23 year old has good odds of being as good as player X. Flores has been terrible by every measure beyond a few homers. No reason to believe some unbelievable development is on it's way. .281 OBP alone is horrifying.
Dan, you may be correct, except that Flores always put up outstanding stats in the minors the entire time he was there. The talent is there...it's not like there is nothing to fall back on.
The point is that his numbers, offensively at least, were better than Gomez' numbers were at the same age. It's not outlandish that Flores can develop into a really nice offensive player (minus the speed) given time and stability.
Gomez' OBP at age 23 was...as you put it...horrifying at .287. It didn't even eclipse .300 until age 26 when it was .305.
Probably right but it's possible it won't take much more. Maybe throw in a Gsellman and that gets it done. Would really, really prefer a player who isn't a pure rental.
Probably right but it's possible it won't take much more. Maybe throw in a Gsellman and that gets it done. Would really, really prefer a player who isn't a pure rental.
To be clear I'm not suggesting suddenly it's Wheeler AND Matz or something. I just suspect if Bruce is traded it's at a higher price than the agreed to Gomez deal.
Probably right but it's possible it won't take much more. Maybe throw in a Gsellman and that gets it done. Would really, really prefer a player who isn't a pure rental.
To be clear I'm not suggesting suddenly it's Wheeler AND Matz or something. I just suspect if Bruce is traded it's at a higher price than the agreed to Gomez deal.
I agree, it would make sense. The extra year of being able to control Bruce adds a little to his price tag as it should.
problem with this whole thing is that there is no accountability for reporters. So things like "Source says it became a financial issue" get thrown out from "reputable" writers and whether it's true or not doesn't matter. It's all speculation and reporting fast, accuracy be damned because it's on social media.
These "sources" use the writers to further their personal agenda's and the writers buy right into it.
Jim Bowden @JimBowden_ESPN 14s15 seconds ago
LAD get Latos,Wood,Avilan,Johnson, Peraza, Morse, Arroyo ATL get Olivera,Rodriguez,draft pick,Bird FL save16-18m, Araujo,Guzman,Brigham DONE
A little of both. They do spend quite a bit on IFA's (Osuna quietly has been amazing http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/osunaro01.shtml and they do draft very well. They mix it up college/HS with upside and while it sounds funny on paper they do a fantastic job scouting Canada.
They have talent to spare, aging team thogh
I'm an anti-Wilpon as anyone else but Gomez has a very fair deal and has another affordable year instead of just being a rental. I really think the docs saw something with his hip and that's why the deal is off.
The problem with the implications -- Mets cheaped out on the deal -- is that the story still has holes in in. For example, the Mets asked for a comp pick back before asking for a pick. So maybe they werent hard up. Problem #1. Problem #2 with the story is way bigger. It skips the crucial step where the Brewers announced the trade. I could buy a story that the Mets nixed a trade as it was getting close because the Wilpons are cheap. But if they agreed to a trade, I really dont buy them nixing it because of pure money fears. And I think the worst of the Wilpons.
The Mets are going to take it on the chin here, at least in the media. Unlike Melvin who is saying Gomez is 100% healthy (which is plainly bullshit), the Mets cant put their version of facts out there. They cant say he had cortisone shots or went to 5 doctors or that they have no idea if it is a groin or hip or whatever.
Dave Gershman @Dave_Gershman 7s7 seconds ago
Names discussed are Flores, Niese, Fulmer. DET pushing for Wheeler
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Dave Gershman @Dave_Gershman 33s33 seconds ago
Again, still hearing Mets talks w/ Tigers for Cespedes ongoing after fallout yesterday. DET would need to take salary for deal to happen
How about salary dump of Austin Jackson and hope he just hates Starbucks? #Mets
I just can't understand how it always comes down to how much salary the other team is going to eat. SPEND THE FUCKING MONEY AND THE TRADEOFF WILL BE ASSES IN THE SEATS LATE INTO SEPTEMBER. Holy shit is the ownership frustrating.
What's next, we go back to MLB and ask for another loan?
I wouldn't be thrilled with Flores/Cespedes but seems the least offensive of the rumors. If we have to give up a better prospect because we can't handle the salary then I don't really know what to say.
Would Cespedes remaining salary even equal the Wright insurance money?
Think about the source of a claim that asinine. Not even worth responding to...
Anyway.. if you told me the Mets would lock Cespedes up long-term, I'd deal Wheeler. Knowing I'll never get that assurance and that he'd almost certainly be a rental, Wheeler is too much to give up.
How about salary dump of Austin Jackson and hope he just hates Starbucks? #Mets
I do too - hadn't thought of it until Shecky brought up Seattle and then looked at their roster. He's had 2 awful years there but he'd add some athleticism and he's the kind of guy who can go a short term tear.
Don't think it's impossible for Flores to put up Gomez type numbers at some point sans the steals. It's probably a top 10% outcome for him, and also ignores that a big part of Gomez' value comes from playing CF.
Dave Gershman @Dave_Gershman 33s33 seconds ago
Again, still hearing Mets talks w/ Tigers for Cespedes ongoing after fallout yesterday. DET would need to take salary for deal to happen
Fucking Wilpons. We'll overpay in talent because they cant balance their personal finances.
Daniel Wexler @WexlerRules 3h3 hours ago
@injuryexpert Will, maybe I missed it, given what you know what is the long term prognosis for Gomez's hip? Thanks.
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Will Carroll @injuryexpert 12s12 seconds ago
@WexlerRules he's fine
- Milwaukee was extremely aggressive shopping Gomez.
- Deal was never agreed to when it got leaked. (don't know who leaked it)
- When it got to medicals the Mets saw something and doctors said "no way"
- Brewers still wanted to deal, Mets didn't, Brewers got upset with Mets
- Francesa hearing money stuff not true, Lagares never in deal
- Deal blew up for 1 reason - Gomez health
- Biggest problem with Mets was leaving Flores out there
- They need to turn around and get another player, only way to fix this
- Milwaukee is no longer a possibility to deal with (Parra out)
- Cespedes is not 1 of their options
- 2 offensive options out there they are trying to obtain (doesn't know who they are, CarGonz, Upton, Reddick)
Dan, Flores' numbers are actually a bit better than Gomez' numbers were at the same age. Why could Gomez develop but Flores can't? You can't compare Flores at 23 to Gomez at 29. Doesn't work that way.
- Milwaukee was extremely aggressive shopping Gomez.
- Deal was never agreed to when it got leaked. (don't know who leaked it)
- When it got to medicals the Mets saw something and doctors said "no way"
- Brewers still wanted to deal, Mets didn't, Brewers got upset with Mets
- Francesa hearing money stuff not true, Lagares never in deal
- Deal blew up for 1 reason - Gomez health
- Biggest problem with Mets was leaving Flores out there
- They need to turn around and get another player, only way to fix this
- Milwaukee is no longer a possibility to deal with (Parra out)
- Cespedes is not 1 of their options
- 2 offensive options out there they are trying to obtain (doesn't know who they are, CarGonz, Upton, Reddick)
How the hell does Francesa, of all people, have all of t his information?
Quote:
Gomez has posted a 118 OPS+ the past 4 seasons, Wilmer Flores averaging 24 homers 32 2b's and 7 triples over 162, Wilmer Flores is one day going to do that? Gomez also (while not a high OBP guy) still has averaged 40+ walks per season Flores has a career .281 OBP and an 81 OPS+
Dan, Flores' numbers are actually a bit better than Gomez' numbers were at the same age. Why could Gomez develop but Flores can't? You can't compare Flores at 23 to Gomez at 29. Doesn't work that way.
In that case every 23 year old has good odds of being as good as player X. Flores has been terrible by every measure beyond a few homers. No reason to believe some unbelievable development is on it's way. .281 OBP alone is horrifying.
Generally I agree but
1. Francesa is close with Jeff
2. He claimed yesterday the cost for Cespedes would be Syndergaard. Which is absolutely ridiculous and unbelievable.
- Milwaukee was extremely aggressive shopping Gomez.
- Deal was never agreed to when it got leaked. (don't know who leaked it)
- When it got to medicals the Mets saw something and doctors said "no way"
- Brewers still wanted to deal, Mets didn't, Brewers got upset with Mets
- Francesa hearing money stuff not true, Lagares never in deal
- Deal blew up for 1 reason - Gomez health
- Biggest problem with Mets was leaving Flores out there
- They need to turn around and get another player, only way to fix this
- Milwaukee is no longer a possibility to deal with (Parra out)
- Cespedes is not 1 of their options
- 2 offensive options out there they are trying to obtain (doesn't know who they are, CarGonz, Upton, Reddick)
This sounds likely. Also would explain why the Mets started Flores.
Too much BS out there.
Too much BS out there.
Zack Wheeler was still a pretty high price for a guy signed for one more season. Bruce is signed for 2 more and the Reds likely know the Mets are desperate now. I'd be pretty shocked if Wheeler/Flores were enough at this point.
After noting that his paper's first report was that Wheeler's meds nixed it:
(and BTW, attributing the Wheeler report to his paper is scummy -- he reported it via twitter).
So this asshole has now reported that it was (1) Wheeler's arm, (2) Gomez's hip (according to "sources", and now (3) strongly suggesting it was the Mets' cheapness. In the course of about 16 hours. With no sourcing for the insinuations about the Mets's motives. Seems like crappy reporting.
Also, his article said that "HIPAA laws prevented Brewers general manager Doug Melvin from commenting on anyone's physical issues." Which is pretty funny because now Melvin is talking about Gomez's physical issues. Again, what gives?
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
Gotta wait and see. 2 days ago everyone was so sure Gomez was costing "the moon" and that wound up not being the case.
Too much BS out there.
Zack Wheeler was still a pretty high price for a guy signed for one more season. Bruce is signed for 2 more and the Reds likely know the Mets are desperate now. I'd be pretty shocked if Wheeler/Flores were enough at this point.
Wheeler in a Bruce deal is way, way different than Wheeler in a Cespedes deal though.
Quote:
In comment 12393904 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Gomez has posted a 118 OPS+ the past 4 seasons, Wilmer Flores averaging 24 homers 32 2b's and 7 triples over 162, Wilmer Flores is one day going to do that? Gomez also (while not a high OBP guy) still has averaged 40+ walks per season Flores has a career .281 OBP and an 81 OPS+
Dan, Flores' numbers are actually a bit better than Gomez' numbers were at the same age. Why could Gomez develop but Flores can't? You can't compare Flores at 23 to Gomez at 29. Doesn't work that way.
In that case every 23 year old has good odds of being as good as player X. Flores has been terrible by every measure beyond a few homers. No reason to believe some unbelievable development is on it's way. .281 OBP alone is horrifying.
Dan, you may be correct, except that Flores always put up outstanding stats in the minors the entire time he was there. The talent is there...it's not like there is nothing to fall back on.
The point is that his numbers, offensively at least, were better than Gomez' numbers were at the same age. It's not outlandish that Flores can develop into a really nice offensive player (minus the speed) given time and stability.
Gomez' OBP at age 23 was...as you put it...horrifying at .287. It didn't even eclipse .300 until age 26 when it was .305.
To be clear I'm not suggesting suddenly it's Wheeler AND Matz or something. I just suspect if Bruce is traded it's at a higher price than the agreed to Gomez deal.
"Walk off homer! and for one night in October, Jay is the most popular Bruce in the NY/NJ area" Future after game 7 of WS #Mets
Quote:
Probably right but it's possible it won't take much more. Maybe throw in a Gsellman and that gets it done. Would really, really prefer a player who isn't a pure rental.
To be clear I'm not suggesting suddenly it's Wheeler AND Matz or something. I just suspect if Bruce is traded it's at a higher price than the agreed to Gomez deal.
I agree, it would make sense. The extra year of being able to control Bruce adds a little to his price tag as it should.
These "sources" use the writers to further their personal agenda's and the writers buy right into it.
LAD get Latos,Wood,Avilan,Johnson, Peraza, Morse, Arroyo ATL get Olivera,Rodriguez,draft pick,Bird FL save16-18m, Araujo,Guzman,Brigham DONE