I have a higher opinion than most of Wheeler. I think his fastball has great movement. But like arc said, you don't really get the real Wheeler until 2017
You get a really good CF, leaving Granderson and Conforto in the corners. Sucks losing Wheeler who I think can be a real good No. 2 to at worst a Solid 3. But you have give talent to a acquire talent.
but with the emergence of Fulmer he may have never had a roster spot. I think Wheeler is going to be a very solid pitcher. Hell, I still think Flores is going to be a 20 HR bat somewhere in the infield also. Mets had to do this though.
I actually think it's quite fair for both sides. Gomez is under control for next season, Wheeler probably won't even play until the middle of the season (if even that) and Flores is who knows. Wheeler is probably the 5th starter on this team if and when he came back.
But Flores wasn't going to have a spot here. Also, another way to look at this is we got a huge piece without giving up a single prospect. Everyone is still in tact. Conforto, Nimmo, Cecchini, Fulmer, Herrera, Smith, ect.
Gonna be tough watching Wheeler head up there rotation though and see Flores hitting 20 HR a year for the next 6 years. Great move for us today but in a couple years we might end up hating playing the Brewers. lol.
Have to think about this trade. Sad to see Flores go.
Waldman speaking during the Yankee broadcast that more is expected to happen at Citi Field. Not sure if somebody is in her ear or she's she just acting nuts again.
Jeff Passan @JeffPassan
Source: If Mets trade for Carlos Gomez does come to fruition, Juan Lagares expected to go to the Brewers. Name has been prominent in talks.
Jeff Passan @JeffPassan
Another source says Juan Lagares is not in current incarnation of Mets talks with Brewers in potential Carlos Gomez deal. So there's that.
and I always find it a little odd bringing a player back that was our property. Hope Gomez can stay healthy and continue to be an all-star caliber player.
Lagares will have massive value when he gets healthy
if you are going to acquire real talent and have a better chance of making a run. With the Nats having a less stellar than expected season it makes perfect sense to push some chips in and go for it.
Wheeler is a long way away from helping on the field and at some point someone has to be deemed a surplus. Add to that the fact that you still never know 100% how a pitcher comes back from surgery I think this was a smart risk in trading him. Flores was given his chance and really had no place here with Herrra likely the best option at 2nd for the future. Maybe he will hit in the pros at some point but he hasn't for the Mets and simply ran out of chances.
Jeff Passan @JeffPassan
Source: If Mets trade for Carlos Gomez does come to fruition, Juan Lagares expected to go to the Brewers. Name has been prominent in talks.
Jeff Passan @JeffPassan
Another source says Juan Lagares is not in current incarnation of Mets talks with Brewers in potential Carlos Gomez deal. So there's that.
I thought Gomez had two more years after this one. The deal is a bit shakier to me with just 1 year left. There is a lot of production left in Wheeler's pre-FA years.
I thought Gomez had two more years after this one. The deal is a bit shakier to me with just 1 year left. There is a lot of production left in Wheeler's pre-FA years.
we will also have option of qualifying offer I believe
Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 1h1 hour ago
Was told #Brewers asked for Dilson Herrera and #Mets refused since already were including Wheeler. Accepted Flores as 2d item
Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 2m2 minutes ago
Was told players agreed upon in #Mets deal with #Brewers. Gomez for Wilmer/Wheeler. Alderson says now no deal.
to force Mets hand and Sandy is calling the bluff/power play.
Don't think it's the Mets either...think it is Milwaukee taking a look at Wheeler's medicals and having second thoughts
What could they possibly have been expecting when looking at the medical records of a player just off TJ surgery? Just so fucking weird. I have no idea how something like this goes so sideways. Makes no sense.
And of course, tulo goes nuts tonight for Toronto.
Agent or team that's now supposedly backing out also? I don't think medicals are blowing this up.
I think Milwaukee leaked all of this once the players had been agreed to and I think the overall deal hadn't been agreed to yet, possibly even haggling over $ or something. I think they tried to put Alderson in a position where he couldn't unring a bell and he is calling their bluff. Possibly at his own expense, but calling it none the less.
The may have rejected him based on the medical records though. which would be a rough sign for us, though I doubt Sandy would knowingly trade damaged goods like that.
The may have rejected him based on the medical records though. which would be a rough sign for us, though I doubt Sandy would knowingly trade damaged goods like that.
Again. Wheeler started throwing the other day. How bad could he be? And Sheck says its not even remotely that so who the hell knows. This is crazy.
RE: zero percent change that Wheeler took a physical
The may have rejected him based on the medical records though. which would be a rough sign for us, though I doubt Sandy would knowingly trade damaged goods like that.
Or Sandy thought that Wheeler wasn't damaged goods but the Brewers are more finicky and thought otherwise
whoever those are (likely MIL people). Milwaukee had told Gomez about the trade, so again, clearly they thought the deal was agreed to when it apparently wasn't.
Not to be a downer, but I bet this fell apart over money. They had agreed on players and there's not much else that could have been in discussion since physicals didn't happen yet. Milwaukee thought they could muscle it through and now Alderson is breaking off entirely.
How about Gomez failed the medical reports?? He's had a series of injuries and hip issues. Milwaukee had already told Gomez's camp the deal was done so what if WE squashed it??
How about Gomez failed the medical reports?? He's had a series of injuries and hip issues. Milwaukee had already told Gomez's camp the deal was done so what if WE squashed it??
How about Gomez failed the medical reports?? He's had a series of injuries and hip issues. Milwaukee had already told Gomez's camp the deal was done so what if WE squashed it??
Good thought. It could really be almost anything at this point but I hadn't thought of that possibility.
How about Gomez failed the medical reports?? He's had a series of injuries and hip issues. Milwaukee had already told Gomez's camp the deal was done so what if WE squashed it??
That's possible.
With Sandy saying so definitely there will not be a trade this deadline wouldn't it make more sense?? Because you figure if it was on Wheeler the door might still be open for a different combination of players.
Joe DeMayo @PSLToFlushing 31s31 seconds ago
Mets sources confirmed. Brewers sources confirmed. Scott Boras (Gomez's agent) was under the impression he was a Met. It was Zack's medical.
Joe DeMayo @PSLToFlushing 31s31 seconds ago
Mets sources confirmed. Brewers sources confirmed. Scott Boras (Gomez's agent) was under the impression he was a Met. It was Zack's medical.
Except Shecky just said that couldn't be further from the truth. Who to believe... Hmmm.
Matt Ehalt @MattEhalt 1m1 minute ago
Not sure if this is out there but The Record hears it was on the Brewers end that this deal fell through, not the Mets.
his hitting is at the level its been either. So next year maybe yeah. And giving up legit assets for a two year rental isn't what the Mets should be doing anyway.
Tom @Haudricourt 35m35 minutes ago
That was the quickest review of medical records ever, if that's what actually happened.
Tom @Haudricourt 14m14 minutes ago
I sincerely doubt that #Brewers told Gomez he had been traded if there was no deal. Had to have heard from social media or elsewhere.
(and that's from a Milwaukee beat guy)
I think the Brewers got cold feet (after telling Gomez he was traded) OR there were still aspects that were never agreed to and Sandy broke off negotiations. After the Parra stuff and Shecky's post, I'm blaming the Brewers. The Mets clearly never thought it was done, hence why they didn't pull Flores. Someone in Milwaukee jumped the gun. And clearly Sherman's source (and probably a lot of his slanted opinions against Alderson) was in Boras' camp.
Bob Nightengale @BNightengale 3m3 minutes ago
The #Brewers rejected the #Mets trade because of concerns over Wheeler"s physical and still plan to trade Gomez by Friday.
RE: keep it up - I still don't think it was Wheeler's medical
Tom @Haudricourt 35m35 minutes ago
That was the quickest review of medical records ever, if that's what actually happened.
Tom @Haudricourt 14m14 minutes ago
I sincerely doubt that #Brewers told Gomez he had been traded if there was no deal. Had to have heard from social media or elsewhere.
(and that's from a Milwaukee beat guy)
I think the Brewers got cold feet (after telling Gomez he was traded) OR there were still aspects that were never agreed to and Sandy broke off negotiations. After the Parra stuff and Shecky's post, I'm blaming the Brewers. The Mets clearly never thought it was done, hence why they didn't pull Flores. Someone in Milwaukee jumped the gun. And clearly Sherman's source (and probably a lot of his slanted opinions against Alderson) was in Boras' camp.
I don't know. A bunch of outlets are saying the deal was done apparently coming from Boras himself and others. Apparently SOMEBODY failed a medical report. Not sure if it was Wheeler or Gomez though.
Young Unsweetened @KFCBarstool
If the Brewers agreed to trade for a guy in the middle of Tommy John and then backed out because he wasnt healthy, they are ASSHOLES.
Most on twitter now reporting it was Brewers that backed out
I think they just got cold feet and are now conveniently blaming medicals.
Andy Martino @MartinoNYDN
Sources: As we suspected, medicals were issue that broke the trade. Dont have player nailed down so wont report. But that's what happened
Have to think about this trade. Sad to see Flores go.
Waldman speaking during the Yankee broadcast that more is expected to happen at Citi Field. Not sure if somebody is in her ear or she's she just acting nuts again.
Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal 40s40 seconds ago
#Brewers GM Melvin: Were disappointed the deal did not get done. We felt very confident it would get done. We werent fearful of it not.
The last thing we needed was to trade Wheeler and Flores for
Gomez was the issue. Oh well. If thats the case I'm really glad we didn't pull the trigger. That was my biggest fear. Gomez comes here and his down year this year was a result of him being damaged goods. Nothing would be worst then to see Wheeler go on to be a successful pitcher with them while Gomez is on and off the DL her with us.
But now you can't trade Flores or Wheeler by Friday. It would be cruel to trade Flores now. Sandy personally apologized to him for "what he went through." So, how can he possibly use Wilmer as a trade chip now?
I love Wilmer. He is going to consistently hit eventually. He's only 23 and by the time he is 25 he will be killing the ball. He just needs more time to figure out major league pitching.
What a strange night.
Also, does anyone hit more "soft" home runs than Lucas Duda?
But now you can't trade Flores or Wheeler by Friday. It would be cruel to trade Flores now. Sandy personally apologized to him for "what he went through." So, how can he possibly use Wilmer as a trade chip now?
I love Wilmer. He is going to consistently hit eventually. He's only 23 and by the time he is 25 he will be killing the ball. He just needs more time to figure out major league pitching.
What a strange night.
Also, does anyone hit more "soft" home runs than Lucas Duda?
I actually think Flores can flourish here as a future Mets third baseman. DW can't play forever and we don't have a 3rd base prospect in the system.
But now you can't trade Flores or Wheeler by Friday. It would be cruel to trade Flores now. Sandy personally apologized to him for "what he went through." So, how can he possibly use Wilmer as a trade chip now?
I love Wilmer. He is going to consistently hit eventually. He's only 23 and by the time he is 25 he will be killing the ball. He just needs more time to figure out major league pitching.
What a strange night.
Also, does anyone hit more "soft" home runs than Lucas Duda?
Bob NightengaleVerified account
@BNightengale
MLB executives are absolutely convinced #Tigers David Price will wind up with the #Dodgers, who likely will have to part with Urias.
I'll say this, yesterday again proves Sandy is a hell of a negotiater
he almost always gets more and gives up less than we expect. Wish he'd have used that skill more over the past few years but he seems to be motivated to make up for lost time.
Amidst all the chaos last night Carig tweeted an interesting nugget, which was that Sandy is going for it now in large part because of how great Thor has been because they didn't expect him to be so good right away. He also said they viewed Gomez as a much better fit than any other targets out there, so at this point I'd be a little surprised if they get another big deal done.
Bob NightengaleVerified account
@BNightengale
MLB executives are absolutely convinced #Tigers David Price will wind up with the #Dodgers, who likely will have to part with Urias.
Bob NightengaleVerified account
@BNightengale
MLB executives are absolutely convinced #Tigers David Price will wind up with the #Dodgers, who likely will have to part with Urias.
obviously haven't seen the medicals so maybe Gomez is really truly damaged but I would have still done the deal. The contract is too good to ignore. He's so cheap the Mets could add Gomez AND another bat in the off-season without having to suspend disbelief.
which was the main report people used to say it was done. I would not for a second put it past Boras to try to generate the frenzy we saw last night to put more pressure on the Mets to complete the deal.
The Mets can't make that trade if Gomez' hip is still compromised. The PR shitstorm that would ensue if he wound up on the DL and the way Sandy would get KILLED for trading for damaged goods wouldn't be worth it.
I was really excited about getting Gomez and it's a huge kick in the balls not to have it happen but if we're going to part with Wheeler in a deal, you have to do it for a guy who is healthy.
obviously haven't seen the medicals so maybe Gomez is really truly damaged but I would have still done the deal. The contract is too good to ignore. He's so cheap the Mets could add Gomez AND another bat in the off-season without having to suspend disbelief.
For me it would have come down to a degenerative thing that needs surgery vs. something that won't affect him next year. If it's the first one it's tough to deal for a player whose game is based on athleticism, even though we were giving up somewhat damaged goods ourselves.
just saying I'm no doctor but I will say I'll be absolutely bummed if Gomez ends up having a big 2016. Both because of the 2015 impact and next year. He may be very damaged and the Mets made the right move but if he has a big 2016 I think the Mets will look really bad here #LOLMetsDoctorsAsUsual etc
Yeah but they'd look much worse if he came here and wound up missing time because of an injury they already knew about. Sandy would get crucified.
The Mets are going to get killed no matter what they do in most cases, it's just how it is. I agree it's a huge bummer if Gomez has a big 2016 but there's just no way of knowing right now.. it'd all be guesswork.
Yeah but they'd look much worse if he came here and wound up missing time because of an injury they already knew about. Sandy would get crucified.
The Mets are going to get killed no matter what they do in most cases, it's just how it is. I agree it's a huge bummer if Gomez has a big 2016 but there's just no way of knowing right now.. it'd all be guesswork.
Disagree on the last part. It would be your doctors giving you an accurate prognosis, not a "guess". If he has a big 2016 people are going to be absolutely furious (rightfully so). Just remember all of the other previous Mets medical gaffes. He may yet be very damaged but if he's putting up a 4.0+ WAR 2016 It's going to hurt very badly.
just saying I'm no doctor but I will say I'll be absolutely bummed if Gomez ends up having a big 2016. Both because of the 2015 impact and next year. He may be very damaged and the Mets made the right move but if he has a big 2016 I think the Mets will look really bad here #LOLMetsDoctorsAsUsual etc
Yeah but they'd look much worse if he came here and wound up missing time because of an injury they already knew about. Sandy would get crucified.
The Mets are going to get killed no matter what they do in most cases, it's just how it is. I agree it's a huge bummer if Gomez has a big 2016 but there's just no way of knowing right now.. it'd all be guesswork.
Disagree on the last part. It would be your doctors giving you an accurate prognosis, not a "guess". If he has a big 2016 people are going to be absolutely furious (rightfully so). Just remember all of the other previous Mets medical gaffes. He may yet be very damaged but if he's putting up a 4.0+ WAR 2016 It's going to hurt very badly.
I'm assuming the prognosis is that he's NOT going to be completely free of this issue in 2016. But there's no way of knowing if he'll aggravate it or not between now and then anyway. Milwaukee doesn't have him running at all, he's stolen zero bases this month.
The doctors can determine whether or not it's degenerative but if he continues to play on it, they can't predict whether he'll re-injure it or not. It's tricky.
it's not degenerative and the Mets passed then I will be furious. He doesn't need to be running much this season to help the Mets (still on pace to be worth 3.2 WAR this season without running much). If it turns out 2016 is compromised/it's a longer term concern then obviously the Mets made the right move.
it's not degenerative and the Mets passed then I will be furious. He doesn't need to be running much this season to help the Mets (still on pace to be worth 3.2 WAR this season without running much). If it turns out 2016 is compromised/it's a longer term concern then obviously the Mets made the right move.
Kaminsky is quite a get for Moss, Cardinals can afford it though
it's not degenerative and the Mets passed then I will be furious. He doesn't need to be running much this season to help the Mets (still on pace to be worth 3.2 WAR this season without running much). If it turns out 2016 is compromised/it's a longer term concern then obviously the Mets made the right move.
Kaminsky is quite a get for Moss, Cardinals can afford it though
If he is impaired and the Mets didn't pass on him you'd be furious. Really no winning with this one. Maybe the Brewers could've been more honest about his condition?
RE: if the Dodgers can't win with Price, Kershaw and Greinke
They may as well just fold as a franchise. Good lord.
I'll admit it. I'm hoping the Dodgers tank with their $310mm payroll.
Add Price, subtract Price. Now a $330mm payroll. Even more reason to root against them.
But it's still an uncharacteristic panic move for the Cardinals, and a flat-out terrible deal. Brandon Moss has been garbage this year.
Cardinals somehow find a way to get guys like Moss going. I'm convinced they have some sort of black magic. Make a minor Freese deal and add Grichuk who is quietly a stud.
also suggest like the SF Giants, NE Patriots and Spurs, Cardinals get the benefit of the doubt on all moves for me. I remember people even blasted the Holliday deal, people thought they would be buried by the Pujols move/leaving, they just keep on trucking.
On the one hand I'd like seeing the Dodgers win for Donnie
On the other hand, I'll laugh my ass off if they get bounced from the NLDS in 4 again because I hate LA fans.
Hard to root for a team who may have payroll coming OFF the books than all but one other team had in payroll for 2915 (Yankees). Yet would still be a top five payroll next year and have the most committed money in baseball already to 2017. I'm hoping they blow it, because them winning anything is just not good for the game.
Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 1m1 minute ago
"We take a lot of pride in that. We dont think anything is wrong with him besides any nick that happens to any ballplayer." (Cont)
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Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 2m2 minutes ago
Melvin: "I dont believe Carlos Gomez has a phsycial issue. Our training staff won best in baseball the last 2 years." (cont)
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Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 2m2 minutes ago
Checked with #Brewers GM Doug Melvin again this morning and he said #Mets had concerns with Gomez medicals but Milw does not.
but gomez was such a good fit. Really bummed this trade didnt go through.
I best dissapointment for me in not getting a ones is simple. This team desperately needs an asshole. No disrespect to Flores, but he cried out on the field last night. This team needs an asshole in the worst way.
Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 51s51 seconds ago
Gomez had MRI 3-4 weeks back for an abductor issue. Not hip. Medical report said no problem with abductor or hip
obviously haven't seen the medicals so maybe Gomez is really truly damaged but I would have still done the deal. The contract is too good to ignore. He's so cheap the Mets could add Gomez AND another bat in the off-season without having to suspend disbelief.
I totally disagree. We were already paying full price+ for a healthy Gomez. Figure he has 8 fWAR left on his contract. I really think that Wheeler's 3.5 remaining pre-arb years are 11 fWAR or better. Wilmer could be a zero, but it's gotta be 50-50 that he starts hitting and gives us 6-10 fWAR over his last 4 seasons. So lets conservatively say that's 12-15 fWAR for 8fWAR. Add a touch of value to the Gomez side since he is more likely than Wheeler or Flores to return a comp pick. Im not doing back flips but I can deal with that trade.
Now put that 8+ fWAR at substantial risk. Unless an injury is minor, you just never know. What if Gomez shuts it down on 3/15 after not getting better in the offseason to get hip surgery so that he's more healthy for UFA? Speculation yes, but he's been dealing with this hip issue for the whole season along with a hammy early and groin soreness of late. Legs are scary, especially for guys who make a living running.
Im not trading Wheeler and Flores for potentially damages goods. This team has too good of a young core to swing wildly like that.
If Carlos Gomez is totally fine and there's no issue, why has he stolen just ONE base since June 6th? This is a guy who swiped 34 last year and 40 the year before.
Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 1m1 minute ago
#Mets faced '16 with 4 OFs making big $. Probably were being uber cautious with Gomez's medicals to have that payroll issue #Brewers
Pretty sad that at this point Lagares counts as "big money" for us. Isnt he making like 7 mill?
projection for Zack Wheeler going forward is 100% guesswork. TONS of pitchers never make it back to even close to their past "glory" and the Mets have already acknowledged Wheeler had more extensive surgery than others. I don't think it's fair to assume he's coming back and going to be worth "X" the rest of the way and my whole opinion is based on IF it turns out Gomez injury is a minor deal. If it's a minor deal then why is he shutting it down NEXT season on 3/5? The guy has been an MVP caliber player (10th in fWAR last year). Also while I'm all about the stats, a players impact on the 2015 vs. someone NOT playing can't be overstated. If Gomez is worth even 1 extra win this year that can be the difference between a WS and sitting at home.
If Carlos Gomez is totally fine and there's no issue, why has he stolen just ONE base since June 6th? This is a guy who swiped 34 last year and 40 the year before.
I'm not suggesting he's "fine". I'm stating if this is a "concern about pulling it further" issue and he's "very likely" to be 100% next year then I'm going to be very upset.
Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 1m1 minute ago
"We take a lot of pride in that. We dont think anything is wrong with him besides any nick that happens to any ballplayer." (Cont)
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Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 2m2 minutes ago
Melvin: "I dont believe Carlos Gomez has a phsycial issue. Our training staff won best in baseball the last 2 years." (cont)
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Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 2m2 minutes ago
Checked with #Brewers GM Doug Melvin again this morning and he said #Mets had concerns with Gomez medicals but Milw does not.
Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 1m1 minute ago
"We take a lot of pride in that. We dont think anything is wrong with him besides any nick that happens to any ballplayer." (Cont)
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Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 2m2 minutes ago
Melvin: "I dont believe Carlos Gomez has a phsycial issue. Our training staff won best in baseball the last 2 years." (cont)
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Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 2m2 minutes ago
Checked with #Brewers GM Doug Melvin again this morning and he said #Mets had concerns with Gomez medicals but Milw does not.
Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 51s51 seconds ago
Gomez had MRI 3-4 weeks back for an abductor issue. Not hip. Medical report said no problem with abductor or hip
Joel Sherman is getting spun. And abductor is not a specific muscle. It is a muscle that draws the limb away from the median plane of the body. There are several muscles that draw the leg away from the body like this, and one (glutius medius) is often called the "hip abductor". Moreover, MLB.com reported last month that the MRI was on his hip:
Quote:
Seeking to rule out the possibility of a structural injury, Carlos Gomez and the Brewers received some peace of mind on Tuesday after the outfielder underwent an MRI on his bothersome right hip.
headed to see doctors. Remember the Mets supposedly found "no injury" with Montero and were perplexed as to why he was taking so long. This is the type of thing that causes me to doubt the Gomez decision.
If Carlos Gomez is totally fine and there's no issue, why has he stolen just ONE base since June 6th? This is a guy who swiped 34 last year and 40 the year before.
I'm not suggesting he's "fine". I'm stating if this is a "concern about pulling it further" issue and he's "very likely" to be 100% next year then I'm going to be very upset.
Ok, well if he's not fine now you can't give up a big piece for him. It's too easy to wait and see what happens and decide the Mets should have done the opposite. Doesn't work that way in real time.
They're obviously being cautious. Too cautious? I don't know. What I do know is that if he were to aggravate the injury and wind up shelved, Alderson would get absolutely annihilated for dealing for damaged goods.
Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 1m1 minute ago
#Mets faced '16 with 4 OFs making big $. Probably were being uber cautious with Gomez's medicals to have that payroll issue #Brewers
Pretty sad that at this point Lagares counts as "big money" for us. Isnt he making like 7 mill?
Just an educated guess, but I think Joel Sherman is effectively acting as Boras's mouthpiece right now.
drafted in 2013, has thrown 73.2 innings, won't throw another one until 2017. That's going to be a rough way to go about having a career. Sucks.
Matz dealt with a lot of stuff early too. We should only be so lucky. It looked like Taylor had rebounded from a disaster of a year he had last year and even if he could not be a starter, as a lefty with his groundball tendencies may have had some potential out of the bullpen
headed to see doctors. Remember the Mets supposedly found "no injury" with Montero and were perplexed as to why he was taking so long. This is the type of thing that causes me to doubt the Gomez decision.
Maybe they should send Montero to the Brewers doctors and training staff.
drafted in 2013, has thrown 73.2 innings, won't throw another one until 2017. That's going to be a rough way to go about having a career. Sucks.
Matz dealt with a lot of stuff early too. We should only be so lucky. It looked like Taylor had rebounded from a disaster of a year he had last year and even if he could not be a starter, as a lefty with his groundball tendencies may have had some potential out of the bullpen
Matz had much better pure stuff. Taylor was 86-88 per Jeff P
Andy Martino @MartinoNYDN 7s8 seconds ago
#Mets not on Justin Upton because, in part, preference is to avoid half season rentals.
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drafted in 2013, has thrown 73.2 innings, won't throw another one until 2017. That's going to be a rough way to go about having a career. Sucks.
This was inevitable. During a start
"What's he throwing?"
85
"What about his fastball?"
Hasnt thrown one
2 minutes later
"You won't believe this. That WAS his fastball"
If you point was still do the trade if Gomez only had a minor injury/soreness, than I understand. That's just not how I read the original post.
Also, fair enough on Wheeler.
My point was I'll be really disappointed if it turns out his injury is simply a "now" thing ie soreness/scared to run to pull it further vs. a major issue. No way I do the deal if it's something degenerative. I just hope it's not something on the brink of a "pull" that would cost him weeks and that's the reasoning. If he's expected to be 100% next season with zero ill effects I'll be bummed.
Interesting that Mets have a rash of TJ issues AFTER Peterson left but not during his tenure.
A lot of them are happening pre-MLB level, though. Does Warthen have any control over how they're taught in the lower levels ?
To my knowledge Ron Romanick is still the Mets pitching coordinator and is a well thought of guy (also hasn't been here that long). Still the numbers are staggering, it's 16-17 guys without even digging deep. Bet it's 20+
Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal
Can confirm much of what @Joelsherman1 reported: #Mets asked #Brewers if they wanted Lagares. MIL wanted Flores rather than Lagares $$. #Mets also asked #Brewers about getting comp pick and/or cash in deal. MIL said no. Deal was agreed to, pending medicals. #Mets backed out. As I reported, #Mets had concern over hip issue. Gomez missed time in June with reported problem; some say it was more groin-related. Gomezs agent, Scott Boras, says Gomez has never seen a hip doctor or had hip issue. #Mets believe scrutiny was justified and warranted.
Tom @Haudricourt
The more details I get on nixed Gomez trade, the more it sounds as if it became more financial matter than medical matter. Anyone surprised?
Not sure why Boras would have any credibility here
so I'll just go on the assumption that his hip was not encouraging enough to agree to. They need someone who can help right now. Makes no sense to acquire an injured player.
Tom @Haudricourt
The more details I get on nixed Gomez trade, the more it sounds as if it became more financial matter than medical matter. Anyone surprised?
Maybe The deal was done and Alderson brought it to the Owner and he said no we cant afford it?
Interesting that Mets have a rash of TJ issues AFTER Peterson left but not during his tenure.
A lot of them are happening pre-MLB level, though. Does Warthen have any control over how they're taught in the lower levels ?
To my knowledge Ron Romanick is still the Mets pitching coordinator and is a well thought of guy (also hasn't been here that long). Still the numbers are staggering, it's 16-17 guys without even digging deep. Bet it's 20+
It certainly seems high. I'd be interested to know if it's technique related or not.
I wondered how long it would take before media types started saying we squashed the deal due to "finances". I wonder what Shecky would have to say about that.
Tom @Haudricourt
The more details I get on nixed Gomez trade, the more it sounds as if it became more financial matter than medical matter. Anyone surprised?
wow..so the Brewers beat writer is claiming that there is no health related issues with Gomez? Anyone surprised?
if there ISN'T a health issue with Gomez, then he's either having a miserable year or in rapid decline.
If I were Gomez I'd be telling EVERYONE that I'm not 100%, so I can explain my year.
Said on wfan that sandy and terry met for a few hours to discuss the team before yesterdays game and obviously no mention of the trade being a possibility
Tom @Haudricourt
The more details I get on nixed Gomez trade, the more it sounds as if it became more financial matter than medical matter. Anyone surprised?
wow..so the Brewers beat writer is claiming that there is no health related issues with Gomez? Anyone surprised?
if there ISN'T a health issue with Gomez, then he's either having a miserable year or in rapid decline.
If I were Gomez I'd be telling EVERYONE that I'm not 100%, so I can explain my year.
Yeah that makes perfect sense. Especially considering Gomez himself was quoted saying he is "scared" to run because of his hip. lol
I wondered how long it would take before media types started saying we squashed the deal due to "finances". I wonder what Shecky would have to say about that.
Well, the Mets have certainly earned that scrutiny.
I wouldn't be surprised if Gomez remained healthy for the rest of this year/next year (in relation to his "hip issue")
Even I wouldn't buy the 'finances' chatter and I'm quite Anti-Wilpon
You have to be a real tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist to think that this fell apart because the Mets suddenly realized Carlos Gomez's contract when the deal was agreed in principle.
Tom @Haudricourt
The more details I get on nixed Gomez trade, the more it sounds as if it became more financial matter than medical matter. Anyone surprised?
Maybe The deal was done and Alderson brought it to the Owner and he said no we cant afford it?
Seems very unlikely. You wouldnt say it was done and exchange medicals if ownership wouldnt allow it anyway.
More likely to me is that Boras and Melvin are on a vindictive media campaign right now. Boras is spouting nonsense like 'hey's obviously 100% healthy, he's playing!'. Tell it to Juan Lagares. And Boras has been railing about the Mets' unwillingness to spend for a few seasons now. As for Melvin, his organization looks foolish for announcing a trade that wasnt final, and he needs to protect his reputation by making sure people dont think he's been peddling damaged goods.
Just think about Haudricourt's tweet. Who is the source with the Mets who would know enough to leak that it was financial and have the motive to do it? And leak it to a Milwaukee press guy? No one. This is a two-way pile on the Mets because Boras and Melvin have a joint interest in painting this as another Wilpon folly.
have to remember Mets related sources leaked stuff like "Mets don't think the Rockies seriously intend to trade Tulo" and then he gets traded for an underwhelming package 2 days later. Does anyone really doubt that if ownership was willing to spend money on the team, we'd have Tulo on the team right now?
I wondered how long it would take before media types started saying we squashed the deal due to "finances". I wonder what Shecky would have to say about that.
Well, the Mets have certainly earned that scrutiny.
I wouldn't be surprised if Gomez remained healthy for the rest of this year/next year (in relation to his "hip issue")
He might remain healthy-ish but if the guy isn't stealing bases anymore, his defense is down, and he's barely hitting homeruns how much value is he to us? I understand he's still on pace to be a 3 WAR player because just about any offense in CF is extremely valuable but Lagares was a 4 WAR player last year. I was all about adding a healthy Gomez and was hoping he would bounce back to 2013-2014 levels but now I seriously doubt that will ever be the case and 2015 is the "real" Gomez or even worst.
I wondered how long it would take before media types started saying we squashed the deal due to "finances". I wonder what Shecky would have to say about that.
Well, the Mets have certainly earned that scrutiny.
I wouldn't be surprised if Gomez remained healthy for the rest of this year/next year (in relation to his "hip issue")
They just made two trades, completed this one pending medicals, but suddenly it's the 'finances'.
Yes, let's scrutinize this chestnut.
is it for certain that it was the Mets who backed out?
Well, the Mets still haven't added any salary this year so until they do, people are going to continue speculate that they can't. They were the ones that pulled out of the deal, so..
Not saying it's right or wrong but can't expect people to suddenly change their tune just because they got "close" to a deal. The deal didn't happen. Close only counts in horseshoe and hand grenades.. or whatever it is.
I wondered how long it would take before media types started saying we squashed the deal due to "finances". I wonder what Shecky would have to say about that.
Well, the Mets have certainly earned that scrutiny.
I wouldn't be surprised if Gomez remained healthy for the rest of this year/next year (in relation to his "hip issue")
He might remain healthy-ish but if the guy isn't stealing bases anymore, his defense is down, and he's barely hitting homeruns how much value is he to us? I understand he's still on pace to be a 3 WAR player because just about any offense in CF is extremely valuable but Lagares was a 4 WAR player last year. I was all about adding a healthy Gomez and was hoping he would bounce back to 2013-2014 levels but now I seriously doubt that will ever be the case and 2015 is the "real" Gomez or even worst.
The worst thing would be if he becomes yet another Jason Bay if the trade was completed.
Mets have also loved to talk about how they almost got players in FA and made major offers but somehow they always end up with second tier guys. Would be funny for them to not improve the team by tomorrow and then point to this as a way of saying "see we tried!"
I do think that this Gomez mess is what it looks like. The teams had a deal and the Mets likely saw something in the medical records that they didn't like. However, none of us were privy to the inner negotiations and we can only rely on what leaks through and what has happened while the Wilpons have run the Mets. Given how the Wilpons have run the team, anyone dismissing the possibility that payroll could've had something to do with this simply hasn't been paying attention IMO.
I wondered how long it would take before media types started saying we squashed the deal due to "finances". I wonder what Shecky would have to say about that.
Well, the Mets have certainly earned that scrutiny.
I wouldn't be surprised if Gomez remained healthy for the rest of this year/next year (in relation to his "hip issue")
He might remain healthy-ish but if the guy isn't stealing bases anymore, his defense is down, and he's barely hitting homeruns how much value is he to us? I understand he's still on pace to be a 3 WAR player because just about any offense in CF is extremely valuable but Lagares was a 4 WAR player last year. I was all about adding a healthy Gomez and was hoping he would bounce back to 2013-2014 levels but now I seriously doubt that will ever be the case and 2015 is the "real" Gomez or even worst.
Yes, but they knew ALL of this stuff before getting in so deep. One has to wonder what made is all change? The deal was obviously as close to done as you can get. It's not like they didn't have all of this info to begin with.
here is valid EXCEPT "becomign another Jason Bay". He's owed less money than Michael Cuddyer and about half of what Granderson is making next season. Deal could have ended up poorly but 100% because of losing Wheeler, not because Gomez "became Bay".
I wondered how long it would take before media types started saying we squashed the deal due to "finances". I wonder what Shecky would have to say about that.
Well, the Mets have certainly earned that scrutiny.
I wouldn't be surprised if Gomez remained healthy for the rest of this year/next year (in relation to his "hip issue")
They just made two trades, completed this one pending medicals, but suddenly it's the 'finances'.
Yes, let's scrutinize this chestnut.
Don't know why you are up my a$$ a lot lately. All I said is that the Mets have earned their scrutiny. Don't think that's so far fetched.
But I'll add you to the "they made two minor trades, they are awesome" crowd.
I wondered how long it would take before media types started saying we squashed the deal due to "finances". I wonder what Shecky would have to say about that.
Well, the Mets have certainly earned that scrutiny.
I wouldn't be surprised if Gomez remained healthy for the rest of this year/next year (in relation to his "hip issue")
They just made two trades, completed this one pending medicals, but suddenly it's the 'finances'.
Yes, let's scrutinize this chestnut.
Don't know why you are up my a$$ a lot lately. All I said is that the Mets have earned their scrutiny. Don't think that's so far fetched.
But I'll add you to the "they made two minor trades, they are awesome" crowd.
No, they've shown a willingness lately to make deals. They are currently an active trading partner. I don't see how it makes any sense that they'd squash an agreed-to deal for a player they very much want over financing. Financing they wasn't a surprise and very straightforward.
It doesn't make any sense.
I hope it wasn't money & can't imagine it was- too many easy solutions
For the rest of this season it was less than 4M and Sandy could have easily guaranteed ownership he'd cut back somewhere else in the offseason. Plus they'd have made money right away on some more ticket sales.
Boras is totally FOS and whether or not you believe the Mets story, Gomez has the same # of SB since June as Michael Cuddyer. If another team acquires Gomez for a premium return and says "no problem with his medical" then I'll grab my pitch fork.
It does not make any sense that they'd duck out at the last minute like MIL was hiding the contract until the last second. They knew what they were getting into financially.
Brewers and Boras are in scramble mode till now, since they both have the most to lose based on how this is perceived. Be interesting how this canvas gets painted the next 28 hours.
"willingness" to make deals and actually "making" the deals
are two different things. We've seen (or at least heard) about their "willingness" to make deals and come up with nothing. Not shockingly, their two deals both come along with $$ and they STILL haven't increased the payroll. It would't surprise me in the least bit if they were trying to get $$ as a part of the trade and that's what made if fall apart. OR, it could also be Gomez' medicals. Who the hell knows. But I can at least see both sides where you, apparently, cannot.
This team has been overwhelmed with financial scrutiny for years. But it doesn't make sense now because YOU don't want it to? Please.
I'm not saying that I'm 100% right about it but they have certainly earned the scrutiny. Wake me up when they actually spend money.
RE: I hope it wasn't money & can't imagine it was- too many easy solutions
For the rest of this season it was less than 4M and Sandy could have easily guaranteed ownership he'd cut back somewhere else in the offseason. Plus they'd have made money right away on some more ticket sales.
Boras is totally FOS and whether or not you believe the Mets story, Gomez has the same # of SB since June as Michael Cuddyer. If another team acquires Gomez for a premium return and says "no problem with his medical" then I'll grab my pitch fork.
While I agree with 99% of this, I think Id also need to see Gomez produce with his new team as well. If some team acquires him and says "no problem" , Id also want to see that he's not an injured mess from now until the end of the year. If he's still not stealing bases and is struggling, Ill stick with the Mets decision.
are two different things. We've seen (or at least heard) about their "willingness" to make deals and come up with nothing. Not shockingly, their two deals both come along with $$ and they STILL haven't increased the payroll. It would't surprise me in the least bit if they were trying to get $$ as a part of the trade and that's what made if fall apart. OR, it could also be Gomez' medicals. Who the hell knows. But I can at least see both sides where you, apparently, cannot.
This team has been overwhelmed with financial scrutiny for years. But it doesn't make sense now because YOU don't want it to? Please.
I'm not saying that I'm 100% right about it but they have certainly earned the scrutiny. Wake me up when they actually spend money.
They went thru the entire process, agreed to the deal, and then pulled out over finances?
It makes no sense.
Sandy last night said 'we will not be trading for Gomez'. Not 'we're negotiating', 'it's ongoing', etc. If it was financial why would the door be closed? If it was medical, then it makes sense.
Brewers and Boras are in scramble mode till now, since they both have the most to lose based on how this is perceived. Be interesting how this canvas gets painted the next 28 hours.
100% agreed Shecky, I'm not buying anything from Sherman (Boras) or Brewers FO. Until another team corroborates Gomez health by dealing something good for him, I'm buying the hip problems.
sight that a huge component of this deal was that Gomez was going to help us THIS year. We are going for the playoffs and acquiring pieces for NOW. Even if he heals up in the off-season and has a solid season next year we were acquiring for TWO playoff runs, not one.
Next year is a new year and we'll have a full bevy of options to us in the off-season. We also may or not be anywhere close to contention next year. You never know. If Gomez wasn't helping us NOW, I fail to see the point in acquiring him. Especially with the injury risk attached.
Just to prove the Mets wrong. Not out of spite. But if he doesn't get moved now, teams talk. They speculate. And it will be tougher to move him in the offseason with one year only left on his deal. Throw in Boras who will probably want to renegotiate the Gomez deal with a trade. His value is at a peak now unless he absolutely goes nuts the next two months. Which is always possible with a kid like Gomez.
I don't know Shecky, I think in the offseason he could be worth more
He was by far the best fit of those readily available. Mets moved their best trading chip in Wheeler. It worked. But then it didn't. Time to move on unfortunately.
Absolutely HAVE to win today's game. Can't lose a series at home to Padres, especially after losing ground last night.
Told someone they backed out because of the hip. Brewers tried to say wheeler was the prob right after last night and now the finance thing. Hopefully the mets respond to this by getting another good player
That source said in initial talks, the Mets wanted the Brewers to take centerfielder Juan Lagares in the trade. The Brewers said no, in part because Lagares has an elbow issue but also because he has a four-year, $23 million contract extension that kicks in next year and they didn't want to pick up the money.
So, after further talks, it was decided that the Brewers would take Flores in addition to Wheeler, who is recovering from Tommy John surgery and won't be able to pitch before next June. The source said the Mets then asked the Brewers to throw in the 2016 Competitive Balance Round B pick they were recently awarded and the Brewers said no.
The source said the Brewers then were asked to put some money in the trade to cover part of what's remaining on Gomez's contract, including a $9 million salary next year. Considering the talent level of Gomez and his reasonable contract, the Brewers understandably declined to put any cash into the deal.
It was only then, according to the source, that the Mets came back and said they were calling off the deal because of concerns over Gomez's medical records.
So, this became a financial issue in the end, which many people would say is not surprising considering the financial constraints the Mets have been operating under in recent years.
And I'm guessing the Brewers are none too thrilled about how this transpired, though the diplomatic Melvin would never say so. Link - ( New Window )
have money issues, I believe that narrative more than any other. So the Mets are hamstrung because of finances. Just makes the GM's job a little harder.
That source said in initial talks, the Mets wanted the Brewers to take centerfielder Juan Lagares in the trade. The Brewers said no, in part because Lagares has an elbow issue but also because he has a four-year, $23 million contract extension that kicks in next year and they didn't want to pick up the money.
So, after further talks, it was decided that the Brewers would take Flores in addition to Wheeler, who is recovering from Tommy John surgery and won't be able to pitch before next June. The source said the Mets then asked the Brewers to throw in the 2016 Competitive Balance Round B pick they were recently awarded and the Brewers said no.
The source said the Brewers then were asked to put some money in the trade to cover part of what's remaining on Gomez's contract, including a $9 million salary next year. Considering the talent level of Gomez and his reasonable contract, the Brewers understandably declined to put any cash into the deal.
It was only then, according to the source, that the Mets came back and said they were calling off the deal because of concerns over Gomez's medical records.
So, this became a financial issue in the end, which many people would say is not surprising considering the financial constraints the Mets have been operating under in recent years.
And I'm guessing the Brewers are none too thrilled about how this transpired, though the diplomatic Melvin would never say so. Link - ( New Window )
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DMM - that article could be 100% factual (probably is)
and the hip could still be the issue. I just don't think Gomez makes enough $ to kill the deal over that - even for the Wilponzis. He has less than $3M left to be paid this season and next season he's scheduled to make less than all 3 Yankees starting OF'ers and both of our current corners. I don't blame Sandy at all for trying to get cash or a pick or anything in a negotiation and they did have an agreement after all. That article doesn't claim to know why the trade blew up or dispute the terms had been agreed to. Just that they asked for $.
That source said in initial talks, the Mets wanted the Brewers to take centerfielder Juan Lagares in the trade. The Brewers said no, in part because Lagares has an elbow issue but also because he has a four-year, $23 million contract extension that kicks in next year and they didn't want to pick up the money.
So, after further talks, it was decided that the Brewers would take Flores in addition to Wheeler, who is recovering from Tommy John surgery and won't be able to pitch before next June. The source said the Mets then asked the Brewers to throw in the 2016 Competitive Balance Round B pick they were recently awarded and the Brewers said no.
The source said the Brewers then were asked to put some money in the trade to cover part of what's remaining on Gomez's contract, including a $9 million salary next year. Considering the talent level of Gomez and his reasonable contract, the Brewers understandably declined to put any cash into the deal.
It was only then, according to the source, that the Mets came back and said they were calling off the deal because of concerns over Gomez's medical records.
So, this became a financial issue in the end, which many people would say is not surprising considering the financial constraints the Mets have been operating under in recent years.
And I'm guessing the Brewers are none too thrilled about how this transpired, though the diplomatic Melvin would never say so. Link - ( New Window )
When during this process did the Brewers start informing people that the deal was done? This makes it sound like it was never close to done.
That completely contradicts the $ argument considering Gomez makes what we paid Chris Young last year and less than we gave Cuddyer. His contract is such a steal it just can't be the hold up. Can't be.
So the Brewers declined the better player in Legares, instead opting for Flores. Because of Legares very reasonable contract. Yet the deal fell through because the Mets cheated out at the last second. Time to move on, believe whichever narrative you'd like.
are two different things. We've seen (or at least heard) about their "willingness" to make deals and come up with nothing. Not shockingly, their two deals both come along with $$ and they STILL haven't increased the payroll. It would't surprise me in the least bit if they were trying to get $$ as a part of the trade and that's what made if fall apart. OR, it could also be Gomez' medicals. Who the hell knows. But I can at least see both sides where you, apparently, cannot.
This team has been overwhelmed with financial scrutiny for years. But it doesn't make sense now because YOU don't want it to? Please.
I'm not saying that I'm 100% right about it but they have certainly earned the scrutiny. Wake me up when they actually spend money.
They went thru the entire process, agreed to the deal, and then pulled out over finances?
It makes no sense.
Sandy last night said 'we will not be trading for Gomez'. Not 'we're negotiating', 'it's ongoing', etc. If it was financial why would the door be closed? If it was medical, then it makes sense.
Maybe. How the hell would any of us know what the parameters were and why they backed out? It's not a secret that Gomez has underperformed this year and he's battling an injury of some type. Don't know what more the medical record could show since he has been playing all along (but it's possible that something could be there).
What we DO know is that they are (and have been) way stingy with finances and have demanded cash back with each of their trades (at the expense of their prospects). Nor have they actually spent any extra money despite all of their "willingness" to trade.
I'm not saying I'm right, but it's certainly not far-fetched. They've earned the scrutiny.
Great at drafting? IFA signing? Spent a lot before the new rules were in place?
A little of both. They do spend quite a bit on IFA's (Osuna quietly has been amazing http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/osunaro01.shtml and they do draft very well. They mix it up college/HS with upside and while it sounds funny on paper they do a fantastic job scouting Canada.
pretty wild the Blue Jays can deal 2 premium prospects in baseball + Becerra, land Donaldson and Tulo (2 elite players) and still be able to add Price (with remaining talent in the system).
are going to try and make this seem like it's the Mets, especially their beat reporters. They still want to trade Gomez and the beat reporters will act like they are doing the Brewers a favor by pushing this agenda and 'helping' Gomez's trade value so the team can still try and trade him before the deadline and that they can then be rewarded with some information down the line.
I'm an anti-Wilpon as anyone else but Gomez has a very fair deal and has another affordable year instead of just being a rental. I really think the docs saw something with his hip and that's why the deal is off.
and it has implications. I buy the facts. The implications? Well, consider the source. It's a MILW beat writer. He writes what info he can get. It's odd to call Melvin diplomatic when he's plainly airing all this dirty laundry.
The problem with the implications -- Mets cheaped out on the deal -- is that the story still has holes in in. For example, the Mets asked for a comp pick back before asking for a pick. So maybe they werent hard up. Problem #1. Problem #2 with the story is way bigger. It skips the crucial step where the Brewers announced the trade. I could buy a story that the Mets nixed a trade as it was getting close because the Wilpons are cheap. But if they agreed to a trade, I really dont buy them nixing it because of pure money fears. And I think the worst of the Wilpons.
The Mets are going to take it on the chin here, at least in the media. Unlike Melvin who is saying Gomez is 100% healthy (which is plainly bullshit), the Mets cant put their version of facts out there. They cant say he had cortisone shots or went to 5 doctors or that they have no idea if it is a groin or hip or whatever.
Dave Gershman @Dave_Gershman 7s7 seconds ago
Names discussed are Flores, Niese, Fulmer. DET pushing for Wheeler
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Dave Gershman @Dave_Gershman 33s33 seconds ago
Again, still hearing Mets talks w/ Tigers for Cespedes ongoing after fallout yesterday. DET would need to take salary for deal to happen
Flores is only 23 and will likely put up Gomez type numbers sometime soon IMO. Wheeler, alone, should have gotten it done. Call me a homer but I'm happy that fell through - think we can do better if we're trading those two. Plus, Gomez' arrow looks like it's pointing down (the hip?).
be looking for? I agree that trading Wheeler for a rental would be brutal, but a bat is definitely needed.
I just can't understand how it always comes down to how much salary the other team is going to eat. SPEND THE FUCKING MONEY AND THE TRADEOFF WILL BE ASSES IN THE SEATS LATE INTO SEPTEMBER. Holy shit is the ownership frustrating.
What's next, we go back to MLB and ask for another loan?
even handle the salary for 2 months of Cespedes? What a joke. Wheeler or Fulmer going to DET would be a disaster for a rental who isn't a superstar. Niese would weaken our rotation and make no sense (unless Matz somehow starts throwing yesterday).
I wouldn't be thrilled with Flores/Cespedes but seems the least offensive of the rumors. If we have to give up a better prospect because we can't handle the salary then I don't really know what to say.
Would Cespedes remaining salary even equal the Wright insurance money?
will never put up Gomez type numbers. That is ludicrous. Gomez was MVP caliber the past few seasons.
Think about the source of a claim that asinine. Not even worth responding to...
Anyway.. if you told me the Mets would lock Cespedes up long-term, I'd deal Wheeler. Knowing I'll never get that assurance and that he'd almost certainly be a rental, Wheeler is too much to give up.
How about salary dump of Austin Jackson and hope he just hates Starbucks? #Mets
I do too - hadn't thought of it until Shecky brought up Seattle and then looked at their roster. He's had 2 awful years there but he'd add some athleticism and he's the kind of guy who can go a short term tear.
will never put up Gomez type numbers. That is ludicrous. Gomez was MVP caliber the past few seasons.
Don't think it's impossible for Flores to put up Gomez type numbers at some point sans the steals. It's probably a top 10% outcome for him, and also ignores that a big part of Gomez' value comes from playing CF.
Dave Gershman @Dave_Gershman 33s33 seconds ago
Again, still hearing Mets talks w/ Tigers for Cespedes ongoing after fallout yesterday. DET would need to take salary for deal to happen
Fucking Wilpons. We'll overpay in talent because they cant balance their personal finances.
Gomez has posted a 118 OPS+ the past 4 seasons, Wilmer Flores averaging 24 homers 32 2b's and 7 triples over 162, Wilmer Flores is one day going to do that? Gomez also (while not a high OBP guy) still has averaged 40+ walks per season Flores has a career .281 OBP and an 81 OPS+
Daniel Wexler @WexlerRules 3h3 hours ago
@injuryexpert Will, maybe I missed it, given what you know what is the long term prognosis for Gomez's hip? Thanks.
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Will Carroll @injuryexpert 12s12 seconds ago
@WexlerRules he's fine
- Talks with MIL went on all day, Flores never entered into conversations until after game started.
- Milwaukee was extremely aggressive shopping Gomez.
- Deal was never agreed to when it got leaked. (don't know who leaked it)
- When it got to medicals the Mets saw something and doctors said "no way"
- Brewers still wanted to deal, Mets didn't, Brewers got upset with Mets
- Francesa hearing money stuff not true, Lagares never in deal
- Deal blew up for 1 reason - Gomez health
- Biggest problem with Mets was leaving Flores out there
- They need to turn around and get another player, only way to fix this
- Milwaukee is no longer a possibility to deal with (Parra out)
- Cespedes is not 1 of their options
- 2 offensive options out there they are trying to obtain (doesn't know who they are, CarGonz, Upton, Reddick)
Gomez has posted a 118 OPS+ the past 4 seasons, Wilmer Flores averaging 24 homers 32 2b's and 7 triples over 162, Wilmer Flores is one day going to do that? Gomez also (while not a high OBP guy) still has averaged 40+ walks per season Flores has a career .281 OBP and an 81 OPS+
Dan, Flores' numbers are actually a bit better than Gomez' numbers were at the same age. Why could Gomez develop but Flores can't? You can't compare Flores at 23 to Gomez at 29. Doesn't work that way.
- Talks with MIL went on all day, Flores never entered into conversations until after game started.
- Milwaukee was extremely aggressive shopping Gomez.
- Deal was never agreed to when it got leaked. (don't know who leaked it)
- When it got to medicals the Mets saw something and doctors said "no way"
- Brewers still wanted to deal, Mets didn't, Brewers got upset with Mets
- Francesa hearing money stuff not true, Lagares never in deal
- Deal blew up for 1 reason - Gomez health
- Biggest problem with Mets was leaving Flores out there
- They need to turn around and get another player, only way to fix this
- Milwaukee is no longer a possibility to deal with (Parra out)
- Cespedes is not 1 of their options
- 2 offensive options out there they are trying to obtain (doesn't know who they are, CarGonz, Upton, Reddick)
How the hell does Francesa, of all people, have all of t his information?
Gomez has posted a 118 OPS+ the past 4 seasons, Wilmer Flores averaging 24 homers 32 2b's and 7 triples over 162, Wilmer Flores is one day going to do that? Gomez also (while not a high OBP guy) still has averaged 40+ walks per season Flores has a career .281 OBP and an 81 OPS+
Dan, Flores' numbers are actually a bit better than Gomez' numbers were at the same age. Why could Gomez develop but Flores can't? You can't compare Flores at 23 to Gomez at 29. Doesn't work that way.
In that case every 23 year old has good odds of being as good as player X. Flores has been terrible by every measure beyond a few homers. No reason to believe some unbelievable development is on it's way. .281 OBP alone is horrifying.
Tejada is a turd but this idea Flores hasn't been given ample chance is ridiculous. 200 major league games is more "time" than most "non monster" prospects get. He's been an utter failure offensively. Defense better than the "awful" people expected but that combination = not valuable.
- Talks with MIL went on all day, Flores never entered into conversations until after game started.
- Milwaukee was extremely aggressive shopping Gomez.
- Deal was never agreed to when it got leaked. (don't know who leaked it)
- When it got to medicals the Mets saw something and doctors said "no way"
- Brewers still wanted to deal, Mets didn't, Brewers got upset with Mets
- Francesa hearing money stuff not true, Lagares never in deal
- Deal blew up for 1 reason - Gomez health
- Biggest problem with Mets was leaving Flores out there
- They need to turn around and get another player, only way to fix this
- Milwaukee is no longer a possibility to deal with (Parra out)
- Cespedes is not 1 of their options
- 2 offensive options out there they are trying to obtain (doesn't know who they are, CarGonz, Upton, Reddick)
This sounds likely. Also would explain why the Mets started Flores.
Gotta wait and see. 2 days ago everyone was so sure Gomez was costing "the moon" and that wound up not being the case.
Too much BS out there.
Zack Wheeler was still a pretty high price for a guy signed for one more season. Bruce is signed for 2 more and the Reds likely know the Mets are desperate now. I'd be pretty shocked if Wheeler/Flores were enough at this point.
reported last night that it was the hip that blew up the trade:
Quote:
As it turns out, it was the Mets' concern over Gomez's hip that nixed his trade to the Mets, two sources told the Journal Sentinel early Thursday morning.
After noting that his paper's first report was that Wheeler's meds nixed it:
Quote:
Late Wednesday evening it was reported, including in the Journal Sentinel newspaper, that the reason the trade fell through was that the Brewers
(and BTW, attributing the Wheeler report to his paper is scummy -- he reported it via twitter).
So this asshole has now reported that it was (1) Wheeler's arm, (2) Gomez's hip (according to "sources", and now (3) strongly suggesting it was the Mets' cheapness. In the course of about 16 hours. With no sourcing for the insinuations about the Mets's motives. Seems like crappy reporting.
Also, his article said that "HIPAA laws prevented Brewers general manager Doug Melvin from commenting on anyone's physical issues." Which is pretty funny because now Melvin is talking about Gomez's physical issues. Again, what gives? Link - ( New Window )
Gotta wait and see. 2 days ago everyone was so sure Gomez was costing "the moon" and that wound up not being the case.
Too much BS out there.
Zack Wheeler was still a pretty high price for a guy signed for one more season. Bruce is signed for 2 more and the Reds likely know the Mets are desperate now. I'd be pretty shocked if Wheeler/Flores were enough at this point.
Wheeler in a Bruce deal is way, way different than Wheeler in a Cespedes deal though.
no doubt. I was merely responding to the price for Bruce. Wheeler for a rental would be absolutely awful. Wheeler for Bruce is something I'd sign for this instant, I just would be surprised if the Gomez package netted Bruce.
Gomez has posted a 118 OPS+ the past 4 seasons, Wilmer Flores averaging 24 homers 32 2b's and 7 triples over 162, Wilmer Flores is one day going to do that? Gomez also (while not a high OBP guy) still has averaged 40+ walks per season Flores has a career .281 OBP and an 81 OPS+
Dan, Flores' numbers are actually a bit better than Gomez' numbers were at the same age. Why could Gomez develop but Flores can't? You can't compare Flores at 23 to Gomez at 29. Doesn't work that way.
In that case every 23 year old has good odds of being as good as player X. Flores has been terrible by every measure beyond a few homers. No reason to believe some unbelievable development is on it's way. .281 OBP alone is horrifying.
Dan, you may be correct, except that Flores always put up outstanding stats in the minors the entire time he was there. The talent is there...it's not like there is nothing to fall back on.
The point is that his numbers, offensively at least, were better than Gomez' numbers were at the same age. It's not outlandish that Flores can develop into a really nice offensive player (minus the speed) given time and stability.
Gomez' OBP at age 23 was...as you put it...horrifying at .287. It didn't even eclipse .300 until age 26 when it was .305.
Probably right but it's possible it won't take much more. Maybe throw in a Gsellman and that gets it done. Would really, really prefer a player who isn't a pure rental.
Probably right but it's possible it won't take much more. Maybe throw in a Gsellman and that gets it done. Would really, really prefer a player who isn't a pure rental.
To be clear I'm not suggesting suddenly it's Wheeler AND Matz or something. I just suspect if Bruce is traded it's at a higher price than the agreed to Gomez deal.
Probably right but it's possible it won't take much more. Maybe throw in a Gsellman and that gets it done. Would really, really prefer a player who isn't a pure rental.
To be clear I'm not suggesting suddenly it's Wheeler AND Matz or something. I just suspect if Bruce is traded it's at a higher price than the agreed to Gomez deal.
I agree, it would make sense. The extra year of being able to control Bruce adds a little to his price tag as it should.
problem with this whole thing is that there is no accountability for reporters. So things like "Source says it became a financial issue" get thrown out from "reputable" writers and whether it's true or not doesn't matter. It's all speculation and reporting fast, accuracy be damned because it's on social media.
These "sources" use the writers to further their personal agenda's and the writers buy right into it.
Jim Bowden @JimBowden_ESPN 14s15 seconds ago
LAD get Latos,Wood,Avilan,Johnson, Peraza, Morse, Arroyo ATL get Olivera,Rodriguez,draft pick,Bird FL save16-18m, Araujo,Guzman,Brigham DONE
I have a higher opinion than most of Wheeler. I think his fastball has great movement. But like arc said, you don't really get the real Wheeler until 2017
I can dig it. Don't like giving up Wilmer this soon but hard to argue against this kind of deal.
Bats are the priority for the Mets. This is a big one to bring to the lineup everyday.
Flores wasn't going to get much playing time in NY.
Apparently reviewing medical records so its not official.
Have to think about this trade. Sad to see Flores go.
Waldman speaking during the Yankee broadcast that more is expected to happen at Citi Field. Not sure if somebody is in her ear or she's she just acting nuts again.
Source: If Mets trade for Carlos Gomez does come to fruition, Juan Lagares expected to go to the Brewers. Name has been prominent in talks.
Jeff Passan @JeffPassan
Another source says Juan Lagares is not in current incarnation of Mets talks with Brewers in potential Carlos Gomez deal. So there's that.
whos head would be in the game
Wheeler is a long way away from helping on the field and at some point someone has to be deemed a surplus. Add to that the fact that you still never know 100% how a pitcher comes back from surgery I think this was a smart risk in trading him. Flores was given his chance and really had no place here with Herrra likely the best option at 2nd for the future. Maybe he will hit in the pros at some point but he hasn't for the Mets and simply ran out of chances.
I wonder if Sandy looks to move Lagares now?
Source: If Mets trade for Carlos Gomez does come to fruition, Juan Lagares expected to go to the Brewers. Name has been prominent in talks.
Jeff Passan @JeffPassan
Another source says Juan Lagares is not in current incarnation of Mets talks with Brewers in potential Carlos Gomez deal. So there's that.
LOL.. brutal. Way to put info out there, Jeff!
Asked official involved with Gomez trade why Flores is still in game. Reply: No deal is done. The entire world has jumped the gun.
we will also have option of qualifying offer I believe
Was told #Brewers asked for Dilson Herrera and #Mets refused since already were including Wheeler. Accepted Flores as 2d item
Alderson says there is no trade. "Unfortunately social media got ahead of the facts"
Collins was saying no trade as well.
That would be nuts
Sandy Alderson insists "there is no trade. Unfortunately, social media got ahead of the facts." Says Gomez deal "will not transpire." #Mets
will not transpire, not on hold or not done yet, will not transpire
Whoa! Sandy Alderson says trade trade "has not and will not transpire." ... That sounds definitive no.
Maybe somehow this will light a fire under Wilmer and be a turning point for him.
Whoa! Sandy Alderson says trade trade "has not and will not transpire." ... That sounds definitive no.
Da fuq? This is one of the most bizarre trade deadlines ever
Don't think it's the Mets either...think it is Milwaukee taking a look at Wheeler's medicals and having second thoughts
I think it is Milwaukee's fault because they think Wheeler is permanently damaged goods
lol Collins did the right thing all night long.
I think it is Milwaukee's fault because they think Wheeler is permanently damaged goods
I don't know. Wheeler is already throwing. How bad could he be?
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to force Mets hand and Sandy is calling the bluff/power play.
Don't think it's the Mets either...think it is Milwaukee taking a look at Wheeler's medicals and having second thoughts
If true that would be reported.
Was told players agreed upon in #Mets deal with #Brewers. Gomez for Wilmer/Wheeler. Alderson says now no deal.
Not even remotely close to being the case Z. Get a good nights sleep
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to force Mets hand and Sandy is calling the bluff/power play.
Don't think it's the Mets either...think it is Milwaukee taking a look at Wheeler's medicals and having second thoughts
What could they possibly have been expecting when looking at the medical records of a player just off TJ surgery? Just so fucking weird. I have no idea how something like this goes so sideways. Makes no sense.
And of course, tulo goes nuts tonight for Toronto.
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have flunked the physical? What a nightmare.
Not even remotely close to being the case Z. Get a good nights sleep
Shecky, give us a hint
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have flunked the physical? What a nightmare.
Not even remotely close to being the case Z. Get a good nights sleep
I meant medical report. lol. Have any idea here Sheck?
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have flunked the physical? What a nightmare.
Not even remotely close to being the case Z. Get a good nights sleep
Sheck, I know you know the truth....and I really really want to know.
Come on, share with me buddy!!
I think Milwaukee leaked all of this once the players had been agreed to and I think the overall deal hadn't been agreed to yet, possibly even haggling over $ or something. I think they tried to put Alderson in a position where he couldn't unring a bell and he is calling their bluff. Possibly at his own expense, but calling it none the less.
The may have rejected him based on the medical records though. which would be a rough sign for us, though I doubt Sandy would knowingly trade damaged goods like that.
Wow is right. The press jumps the gun announcing a trade that hasn't happened, and now somehow it's the Mets' fault?
The may have rejected him based on the medical records though. which would be a rough sign for us, though I doubt Sandy would knowingly trade damaged goods like that.
Again. Wheeler started throwing the other day. How bad could he be? And Sheck says its not even remotely that so who the hell knows. This is crazy.
The may have rejected him based on the medical records though. which would be a rough sign for us, though I doubt Sandy would knowingly trade damaged goods like that.
Or Sandy thought that Wheeler wasn't damaged goods but the Brewers are more finicky and thought otherwise
Yup.
Just unbelievably typical.. regardless of who's fault it is. It's just another kick in the dick in a long, long line of them.
It's all good, I understand if you can't but I'm jealous.
Not to be a downer, but I bet this fell apart over money. They had agreed on players and there's not much else that could have been in discussion since physicals didn't happen yet. Milwaukee thought they could muscle it through and now Alderson is breaking off entirely.
That's possible.
Should I?? So much discussion I wasn't sure?
Good thought. It could really be almost anything at this point but I hadn't thought of that possibility.
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How about Gomez failed the medical reports?? He's had a series of injuries and hip issues. Milwaukee had already told Gomez's camp the deal was done so what if WE squashed it??
That's possible.
With Sandy saying so definitely there will not be a trade this deadline wouldn't it make more sense?? Because you figure if it was on Wheeler the door might still be open for a different combination of players.
Maybe he was still on the phone?
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Tell everyone there was no deal in inning 7 after watching flores cry on the field? Why did he wait the entire night?
Maybe he was still on the phone?
Yeah he was likely pretty involved at the time.
Unreal isn't it.
Mets sources confirmed. Brewers sources confirmed. Scott Boras (Gomez's agent) was under the impression he was a Met. It was Zack's medical.
Mets sources confirmed. Brewers sources confirmed. Scott Boras (Gomez's agent) was under the impression he was a Met. It was Zack's medical.
Except Shecky just said that couldn't be further from the truth. Who to believe... Hmmm.
Not sure if this is out there but The Record hears it was on the Brewers end that this deal fell through, not the Mets.
Hm
I want to be perfectly clear because I've heard this from all angles now: the trade was DONE, pending medicals. And now it's not happening.
no clue if true
he's under contract for one year. He's a FA in 2017. how quickly?
So fingers crossed this doesn't happen.
Keep it for the discussion if nothing else
That was the quickest review of medical records ever, if that's what actually happened.
Tom @Haudricourt 14m14 minutes ago
I sincerely doubt that #Brewers told Gomez he had been traded if there was no deal. Had to have heard from social media or elsewhere.
(and that's from a Milwaukee beat guy)
I think the Brewers got cold feet (after telling Gomez he was traded) OR there were still aspects that were never agreed to and Sandy broke off negotiations. After the Parra stuff and Shecky's post, I'm blaming the Brewers. The Mets clearly never thought it was done, hence why they didn't pull Flores. Someone in Milwaukee jumped the gun. And clearly Sherman's source (and probably a lot of his slanted opinions against Alderson) was in Boras' camp.
I would imagine Sandy will try to bring in somebody after all this but I doubt its anyone from the Brewers.
Also reading its not permissible for GMs to discuss medical records at all, so we might never know who failed it. Im guessing it was Gomez.
The #Brewers rejected the #Mets trade because of concerns over Wheeler"s physical and still plan to trade Gomez by Friday.
That was the quickest review of medical records ever, if that's what actually happened.
Tom @Haudricourt 14m14 minutes ago
I sincerely doubt that #Brewers told Gomez he had been traded if there was no deal. Had to have heard from social media or elsewhere.
(and that's from a Milwaukee beat guy)
I think the Brewers got cold feet (after telling Gomez he was traded) OR there were still aspects that were never agreed to and Sandy broke off negotiations. After the Parra stuff and Shecky's post, I'm blaming the Brewers. The Mets clearly never thought it was done, hence why they didn't pull Flores. Someone in Milwaukee jumped the gun. And clearly Sherman's source (and probably a lot of his slanted opinions against Alderson) was in Boras' camp.
I don't know. A bunch of outlets are saying the deal was done apparently coming from Boras himself and others. Apparently SOMEBODY failed a medical report. Not sure if it was Wheeler or Gomez though.
I would delete it and create a new thread with a new title just so people don't get confused
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delete this thread or keep it? LOL. ??
I would delete it and create a new thread with a new title just so people don't get confused
I got more votes for keep. A lot of good discussion in this one.
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If the Brewers agreed to trade for a guy in the middle of Tommy John and then backed out because he wasnt healthy, they are ASSHOLES.
Andy Martino @MartinoNYDN
Sources: As we suspected, medicals were issue that broke the trade. Dont have player nailed down so wont report. But that's what happened
The Padres interim manager basically admitted to pulling Kemp and Upton late to troll the media. That's amazing.
He was probably in the middle of actually doing the deal.
Have to think about this trade. Sad to see Flores go.
Waldman speaking during the Yankee broadcast that more is expected to happen at Citi Field. Not sure if somebody is in her ear or she's she just acting nuts again.
Guess she wasn't nuts
Matz?
We don't know that Niese won't still be here
Sources: #Mets backed out of trade due to concern over hip issue with #Brewers Gomez.
#Brewers GM Melvin: Were disappointed the deal did not get done. We felt very confident it would get done. We werent fearful of it not.
We might have dodged a bullet.
I love Wilmer. He is going to consistently hit eventually. He's only 23 and by the time he is 25 he will be killing the ball. He just needs more time to figure out major league pitching.
What a strange night.
Also, does anyone hit more "soft" home runs than Lucas Duda?
There he is!!!
Chickenhawk asshole! Where's your response to the Iran thread? Douche.
I love Wilmer. He is going to consistently hit eventually. He's only 23 and by the time he is 25 he will be killing the ball. He just needs more time to figure out major league pitching.
What a strange night.
Also, does anyone hit more "soft" home runs than Lucas Duda?
I actually think Flores can flourish here as a future Mets third baseman. DW can't play forever and we don't have a 3rd base prospect in the system.
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.
We don't know that Niese won't still be here
Or Montero.
I love Wilmer. He is going to consistently hit eventually. He's only 23 and by the time he is 25 he will be killing the ball. He just needs more time to figure out major league pitching.
What a strange night.
Also, does anyone hit more "soft" home runs than Lucas Duda?
A HR hit 450 feet is soft?
They have now done it twice in two weeks lol
Not Shocking that went over his head.
Rory : 7/29/2015 10:03 pm : link : reply
Nobody likes on this board
**Making friends since 2012**
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giants2012 Aren't you the guy
Rory : 7/29/2015 10:03 pm : link : reply
Nobody likes on this board
**Making friends since 2012**
up the meds skippy
Quote:
Quote:
giants2012 Aren't you the guy
Rory : 7/29/2015 10:03 pm : link : reply
Nobody likes on this board
**Making friends since 2012**
up the meds skippy
Skimmed through it a bit before going to bed. Watched the game but wasn't near a computer lol
@BNightengale
MLB executives are absolutely convinced #Tigers David Price will wind up with the #Dodgers, who likely will have to part with Urias.
Amidst all the chaos last night Carig tweeted an interesting nugget, which was that Sandy is going for it now in large part because of how great Thor has been because they didn't expect him to be so good right away. He also said they viewed Gomez as a much better fit than any other targets out there, so at this point I'd be a little surprised if they get another big deal done.
maybe Sandy realizes defense is very important with a solid pitching staff and big ballpark?
I am confident that Flores will be a better offensive player than Herrera, but I don't think Herrera will be a poor offensive player.
He HAS shown to have a good glove and very good range.
@BNightengale
MLB executives are absolutely convinced #Tigers David Price will wind up with the #Dodgers, who likely will have to part with Urias.
YEESH.. talk about going for it NOW.
@BNightengale
MLB executives are absolutely convinced #Tigers David Price will wind up with the #Dodgers, who likely will have to part with Urias.
Thats a huge get by the Tigers if true
I was really excited about getting Gomez and it's a huge kick in the balls not to have it happen but if we're going to part with Wheeler in a deal, you have to do it for a guy who is healthy.
If I were a seller, I'd be looking to raise my prices if I see 718 on the caller ID.
For me it would have come down to a degenerative thing that needs surgery vs. something that won't affect him next year. If it's the first one it's tough to deal for a player whose game is based on athleticism, even though we were giving up somewhat damaged goods ourselves.
Great get by tigers regardless.
If I were a seller, I'd be looking to raise my prices if I see 718 on the caller ID.
I trust sandy in these matters...i hardly doubt somebody is going to pull a fast one over him.
The Mets are going to get killed no matter what they do in most cases, it's just how it is. I agree it's a huge bummer if Gomez has a big 2016 but there's just no way of knowing right now.. it'd all be guesswork.
Isn't pitching harder to find? I would part with seager before parting with Urias or any pitching of his caliber.
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The Mets are going to get killed no matter what they do in most cases, it's just how it is. I agree it's a huge bummer if Gomez has a big 2016 but there's just no way of knowing right now.. it'd all be guesswork.
Disagree on the last part. It would be your doctors giving you an accurate prognosis, not a "guess". If he has a big 2016 people are going to be absolutely furious (rightfully so). Just remember all of the other previous Mets medical gaffes. He may yet be very damaged but if he's putting up a 4.0+ WAR 2016 It's going to hurt very badly.
How can you NOT trust the Mets doctors??
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they can get Urias for Price it's a ridiculous no-brainer. Urias might be the best pitching prospect since Felix Hernandez.
Isn't pitching harder to find? I would part with seager before parting with Urias or any pitching of his caliber.
Pitching is actually EASIER to find in todays game. Offense is down, good offense harder to find.
I don't really get what the Mets did wrong here.
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Yeah but they'd look much worse if he came here and wound up missing time because of an injury they already knew about. Sandy would get crucified.
The Mets are going to get killed no matter what they do in most cases, it's just how it is. I agree it's a huge bummer if Gomez has a big 2016 but there's just no way of knowing right now.. it'd all be guesswork.
Disagree on the last part. It would be your doctors giving you an accurate prognosis, not a "guess". If he has a big 2016 people are going to be absolutely furious (rightfully so). Just remember all of the other previous Mets medical gaffes. He may yet be very damaged but if he's putting up a 4.0+ WAR 2016 It's going to hurt very badly.
I'm assuming the prognosis is that he's NOT going to be completely free of this issue in 2016. But there's no way of knowing if he'll aggravate it or not between now and then anyway. Milwaukee doesn't have him running at all, he's stolen zero bases this month.
The doctors can determine whether or not it's degenerative but if he continues to play on it, they can't predict whether he'll re-injure it or not. It's tricky.
Did I just read that right? Padres manager said he pulled Upton and Kemp to fuck with the media????
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#LOLMETS Link - ( New Window )
I don't really get what the Mets did wrong here.
They dont say the Mets did anything wrong but for some reason used #LOLMets.
Three consecutive no hitters in the playoffs if the mets are "lucky" enough to face them
FWIW, checked this AM, it doesn't sound like Mets are done trying to get a bat.
Kaminsky is quite a get for Moss, Cardinals can afford it though
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#LOLMETS Link - ( New Window )
Did I just read that right? Padres manager said he pulled Upton and Kemp to fuck with the media????
Well, that and it was like 7-1 at the time. But it is funny.
Kaminsky is quite a get for Moss, Cardinals can afford it though
If he is impaired and the Mets didn't pass on him you'd be furious. Really no winning with this one. Maybe the Brewers could've been more honest about his condition?
Dodgers are really going for it it. They are like the last generation Yankees, spending like crazy AND a loaded farm.
I'll admit it. I'm hoping the Dodgers tank with their $310mm payroll.
Add Price, subtract Price. Now a $330mm payroll. Even more reason to root against them.
Cardinals somehow find a way to get guys like Moss going. I'm convinced they have some sort of black magic. Make a minor Freese deal and add Grichuk who is quietly a stud.
On the other hand, I'll laugh my ass off if they get bounced from the NLDS in 4 again because I hate LA fans.
On the other hand, I'll laugh my ass off if they get bounced from the NLDS in 4 again because I hate LA fans.
Hard to root for a team who may have payroll coming OFF the books than all but one other team had in payroll for 2915 (Yankees). Yet would still be a top five payroll next year and have the most committed money in baseball already to 2017. I'm hoping they blow it, because them winning anything is just not good for the game.
That is a GREAT question.
"We take a lot of pride in that. We dont think anything is wrong with him besides any nick that happens to any ballplayer." (Cont)
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Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 2m2 minutes ago
Melvin: "I dont believe Carlos Gomez has a phsycial issue. Our training staff won best in baseball the last 2 years." (cont)
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Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 2m2 minutes ago
Checked with #Brewers GM Doug Melvin again this morning and he said #Mets had concerns with Gomez medicals but Milw does not.
I best dissapointment for me in not getting a ones is simple. This team desperately needs an asshole. No disrespect to Flores, but he cried out on the field last night. This team needs an asshole in the worst way.
Gomez had MRI 3-4 weeks back for an abductor issue. Not hip. Medical report said no problem with abductor or hip
Melvin: "I dont believe Carlos Gomez has a phsycial issue. Our training staff won best in baseball the last 2 years." (cont)
.
HAAAAAAA
Touch Mr Melvin.
I totally disagree. We were already paying full price+ for a healthy Gomez. Figure he has 8 fWAR left on his contract. I really think that Wheeler's 3.5 remaining pre-arb years are 11 fWAR or better. Wilmer could be a zero, but it's gotta be 50-50 that he starts hitting and gives us 6-10 fWAR over his last 4 seasons. So lets conservatively say that's 12-15 fWAR for 8fWAR. Add a touch of value to the Gomez side since he is more likely than Wheeler or Flores to return a comp pick. Im not doing back flips but I can deal with that trade.
Now put that 8+ fWAR at substantial risk. Unless an injury is minor, you just never know. What if Gomez shuts it down on 3/15 after not getting better in the offseason to get hip surgery so that he's more healthy for UFA? Speculation yes, but he's been dealing with this hip issue for the whole season along with a hammy early and groin soreness of late. Legs are scary, especially for guys who make a living running.
Im not trading Wheeler and Flores for potentially damages goods. This team has too good of a young core to swing wildly like that.
#Mets faced '16 with 4 OFs making big $. Probably were being uber cautious with Gomez's medicals to have that payroll issue #Brewers
Pretty sad that at this point Lagares counts as "big money" for us. Isnt he making like 7 mill?
I'm not suggesting he's "fine". I'm stating if this is a "concern about pulling it further" issue and he's "very likely" to be 100% next year then I'm going to be very upset.
"We take a lot of pride in that. We dont think anything is wrong with him besides any nick that happens to any ballplayer." (Cont)
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Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 2m2 minutes ago
Melvin: "I dont believe Carlos Gomez has a phsycial issue. Our training staff won best in baseball the last 2 years." (cont)
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Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 2m2 minutes ago
Checked with #Brewers GM Doug Melvin again this morning and he said #Mets had concerns with Gomez medicals but Milw does not.
So where'd that gomez quote come from?
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Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 1m1 minute ago
"We take a lot of pride in that. We dont think anything is wrong with him besides any nick that happens to any ballplayer." (Cont)
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Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 2m2 minutes ago
Melvin: "I dont believe Carlos Gomez has a phsycial issue. Our training staff won best in baseball the last 2 years." (cont)
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Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 2m2 minutes ago
Checked with #Brewers GM Doug Melvin again this morning and he said #Mets had concerns with Gomez medicals but Milw does not.
So where'd that gomez quote come from?
?? From the Brewers GM. Not from me.
Gomez had MRI 3-4 weeks back for an abductor issue. Not hip. Medical report said no problem with abductor or hip
Joel Sherman is getting spun. And abductor is not a specific muscle. It is a muscle that draws the limb away from the median plane of the body. There are several muscles that draw the leg away from the body like this, and one (glutius medius) is often called the "hip abductor". Moreover, MLB.com reported last month that the MRI was on his hip:
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If Carlos Gomez is totally fine and there's no issue, why has he stolen just ONE base since June 6th? This is a guy who swiped 34 last year and 40 the year before.
I'm not suggesting he's "fine". I'm stating if this is a "concern about pulling it further" issue and he's "very likely" to be 100% next year then I'm going to be very upset.
Ok, well if he's not fine now you can't give up a big piece for him. It's too easy to wait and see what happens and decide the Mets should have done the opposite. Doesn't work that way in real time.
They're obviously being cautious. Too cautious? I don't know. What I do know is that if he were to aggravate the injury and wind up shelved, Alderson would get absolutely annihilated for dealing for damaged goods.
#Mets faced '16 with 4 OFs making big $. Probably were being uber cautious with Gomez's medicals to have that payroll issue #Brewers
Pretty sad that at this point Lagares counts as "big money" for us. Isnt he making like 7 mill?
Just an educated guess, but I think Joel Sherman is effectively acting as Boras's mouthpiece right now.
Matz dealt with a lot of stuff early too. We should only be so lucky. It looked like Taylor had rebounded from a disaster of a year he had last year and even if he could not be a starter, as a lefty with his groundball tendencies may have had some potential out of the bullpen
Maybe they should send Montero to the Brewers doctors and training staff.
Harvey
deGrom
Wheeler
Hefner
Magliozzi
Blake Taylor
Chris Flexen
Luis Mateo
Bashlor
Parnell
Walters
Luis Silva
Logan Taylor
Sounds like Ty Hensley.
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drafted in 2013, has thrown 73.2 innings, won't throw another one until 2017. That's going to be a rough way to go about having a career. Sucks.
Matz dealt with a lot of stuff early too. We should only be so lucky. It looked like Taylor had rebounded from a disaster of a year he had last year and even if he could not be a starter, as a lefty with his groundball tendencies may have had some potential out of the bullpen
Matz had much better pure stuff. Taylor was 86-88 per Jeff P
#Mets not on Justin Upton because, in part, preference is to avoid half season rentals.
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Harvey
deGrom
Wheeler
Hefner
Magliozzi
Blake Taylor
Chris Flexen
Luis Mateo
Bashlor
Parnell
Walters
Luis Silva
Logan Taylor
Edgin too?
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Matz
Harvey
deGrom
Wheeler
Hefner
Magliozzi
Blake Taylor
Chris Flexen
Luis Mateo
Bashlor
Parnell
Walters
Luis Silva
Logan Taylor
Edgin too?
Yup forgot him as well. That's pretty nuts
Also, fair enough on Wheeler.
This was inevitable. During a start
"What's he throwing?"
85
"What about his fastball?"
Hasnt thrown one
2 minutes later
"You won't believe this. That WAS his fastball"
Also, fair enough on Wheeler.
My point was I'll be really disappointed if it turns out his injury is simply a "now" thing ie soreness/scared to run to pull it further vs. a major issue. No way I do the deal if it's something degenerative. I just hope it's not something on the brink of a "pull" that would cost him weeks and that's the reasoning. If he's expected to be 100% next season with zero ill effects I'll be bummed.
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In comment 12393514 DanMetroMan said:
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Matz
Harvey
deGrom
Wheeler
Hefner
Magliozzi
Blake Taylor
Chris Flexen
Luis Mateo
Bashlor
Parnell
Walters
Luis Silva
Logan Taylor
Edgin too?
Yup forgot him as well. That's pretty nuts
Marcos Molina as well?
A lot of them are happening pre-MLB level, though. Does Warthen have any control over how they're taught in the lower levels ?
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Interesting that Mets have a rash of TJ issues AFTER Peterson left but not during his tenure.
A lot of them are happening pre-MLB level, though. Does Warthen have any control over how they're taught in the lower levels ?
To my knowledge Ron Romanick is still the Mets pitching coordinator and is a well thought of guy (also hasn't been here that long). Still the numbers are staggering, it's 16-17 guys without even digging deep. Bet it's 20+
Can confirm much of what @Joelsherman1 reported: #Mets asked #Brewers if they wanted Lagares. MIL wanted Flores rather than Lagares $$. #Mets also asked #Brewers about getting comp pick and/or cash in deal. MIL said no. Deal was agreed to, pending medicals. #Mets backed out. As I reported, #Mets had concern over hip issue. Gomez missed time in June with reported problem; some say it was more groin-related. Gomezs agent, Scott Boras, says Gomez has never seen a hip doctor or had hip issue. #Mets believe scrutiny was justified and warranted.
Tom @Haudricourt
The more details I get on nixed Gomez trade, the more it sounds as if it became more financial matter than medical matter. Anyone surprised?
Tom @Haudricourt
The more details I get on nixed Gomez trade, the more it sounds as if it became more financial matter than medical matter. Anyone surprised?
Maybe The deal was done and Alderson brought it to the Owner and he said no we cant afford it?
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In comment 12393537 Shecky said:
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Interesting that Mets have a rash of TJ issues AFTER Peterson left but not during his tenure.
A lot of them are happening pre-MLB level, though. Does Warthen have any control over how they're taught in the lower levels ?
To my knowledge Ron Romanick is still the Mets pitching coordinator and is a well thought of guy (also hasn't been here that long). Still the numbers are staggering, it's 16-17 guys without even digging deep. Bet it's 20+
It certainly seems high. I'd be interested to know if it's technique related or not.
Tom @Haudricourt
The more details I get on nixed Gomez trade, the more it sounds as if it became more financial matter than medical matter. Anyone surprised?
wow..so the Brewers beat writer is claiming that there is no health related issues with Gomez? Anyone surprised?
if there ISN'T a health issue with Gomez, then he's either having a miserable year or in rapid decline.
If I were Gomez I'd be telling EVERYONE that I'm not 100%, so I can explain my year.
Had a couple non-Brewers industry folk speculate the same thing last night
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Tom @Haudricourt
The more details I get on nixed Gomez trade, the more it sounds as if it became more financial matter than medical matter. Anyone surprised?
wow..so the Brewers beat writer is claiming that there is no health related issues with Gomez? Anyone surprised?
if there ISN'T a health issue with Gomez, then he's either having a miserable year or in rapid decline.
If I were Gomez I'd be telling EVERYONE that I'm not 100%, so I can explain my year.
Yeah that makes perfect sense. Especially considering Gomez himself was quoted saying he is "scared" to run because of his hip. lol
Well, the Mets have certainly earned that scrutiny.
I wouldn't be surprised if Gomez remained healthy for the rest of this year/next year (in relation to his "hip issue")
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Tom @Haudricourt
The more details I get on nixed Gomez trade, the more it sounds as if it became more financial matter than medical matter. Anyone surprised?
Maybe The deal was done and Alderson brought it to the Owner and he said no we cant afford it?
Seems very unlikely. You wouldnt say it was done and exchange medicals if ownership wouldnt allow it anyway.
More likely to me is that Boras and Melvin are on a vindictive media campaign right now. Boras is spouting nonsense like 'hey's obviously 100% healthy, he's playing!'. Tell it to Juan Lagares. And Boras has been railing about the Mets' unwillingness to spend for a few seasons now. As for Melvin, his organization looks foolish for announcing a trade that wasnt final, and he needs to protect his reputation by making sure people dont think he's been peddling damaged goods.
Just think about Haudricourt's tweet. Who is the source with the Mets who would know enough to leak that it was financial and have the motive to do it? And leak it to a Milwaukee press guy? No one. This is a two-way pile on the Mets because Boras and Melvin have a joint interest in painting this as another Wilpon folly.
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I wondered how long it would take before media types started saying we squashed the deal due to "finances". I wonder what Shecky would have to say about that.
Well, the Mets have certainly earned that scrutiny.
I wouldn't be surprised if Gomez remained healthy for the rest of this year/next year (in relation to his "hip issue")
He might remain healthy-ish but if the guy isn't stealing bases anymore, his defense is down, and he's barely hitting homeruns how much value is he to us? I understand he's still on pace to be a 3 WAR player because just about any offense in CF is extremely valuable but Lagares was a 4 WAR player last year. I was all about adding a healthy Gomez and was hoping he would bounce back to 2013-2014 levels but now I seriously doubt that will ever be the case and 2015 is the "real" Gomez or even worst.
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I wondered how long it would take before media types started saying we squashed the deal due to "finances". I wonder what Shecky would have to say about that.
Well, the Mets have certainly earned that scrutiny.
I wouldn't be surprised if Gomez remained healthy for the rest of this year/next year (in relation to his "hip issue")
They just made two trades, completed this one pending medicals, but suddenly it's the 'finances'.
Yes, let's scrutinize this chestnut.
Not saying it's right or wrong but can't expect people to suddenly change their tune just because they got "close" to a deal. The deal didn't happen. Close only counts in horseshoe and hand grenades.. or whatever it is.
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In comment 12393576 ZGiants98 said:
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I wondered how long it would take before media types started saying we squashed the deal due to "finances". I wonder what Shecky would have to say about that.
Well, the Mets have certainly earned that scrutiny.
I wouldn't be surprised if Gomez remained healthy for the rest of this year/next year (in relation to his "hip issue")
He might remain healthy-ish but if the guy isn't stealing bases anymore, his defense is down, and he's barely hitting homeruns how much value is he to us? I understand he's still on pace to be a 3 WAR player because just about any offense in CF is extremely valuable but Lagares was a 4 WAR player last year. I was all about adding a healthy Gomez and was hoping he would bounce back to 2013-2014 levels but now I seriously doubt that will ever be the case and 2015 is the "real" Gomez or even worst.
The worst thing would be if he becomes yet another Jason Bay if the trade was completed.
I do think that this Gomez mess is what it looks like. The teams had a deal and the Mets likely saw something in the medical records that they didn't like. However, none of us were privy to the inner negotiations and we can only rely on what leaks through and what has happened while the Wilpons have run the Mets. Given how the Wilpons have run the team, anyone dismissing the possibility that payroll could've had something to do with this simply hasn't been paying attention IMO.
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In comment 12393576 ZGiants98 said:
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I wondered how long it would take before media types started saying we squashed the deal due to "finances". I wonder what Shecky would have to say about that.
Well, the Mets have certainly earned that scrutiny.
I wouldn't be surprised if Gomez remained healthy for the rest of this year/next year (in relation to his "hip issue")
He might remain healthy-ish but if the guy isn't stealing bases anymore, his defense is down, and he's barely hitting homeruns how much value is he to us? I understand he's still on pace to be a 3 WAR player because just about any offense in CF is extremely valuable but Lagares was a 4 WAR player last year. I was all about adding a healthy Gomez and was hoping he would bounce back to 2013-2014 levels but now I seriously doubt that will ever be the case and 2015 is the "real" Gomez or even worst.
Yes, but they knew ALL of this stuff before getting in so deep. One has to wonder what made is all change? The deal was obviously as close to done as you can get. It's not like they didn't have all of this info to begin with.
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In comment 12393576 ZGiants98 said:
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I wondered how long it would take before media types started saying we squashed the deal due to "finances". I wonder what Shecky would have to say about that.
Well, the Mets have certainly earned that scrutiny.
I wouldn't be surprised if Gomez remained healthy for the rest of this year/next year (in relation to his "hip issue")
They just made two trades, completed this one pending medicals, but suddenly it's the 'finances'.
Yes, let's scrutinize this chestnut.
Don't know why you are up my a$$ a lot lately. All I said is that the Mets have earned their scrutiny. Don't think that's so far fetched.
But I'll add you to the "they made two minor trades, they are awesome" crowd.
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In comment 12393593 PhiPsi125 said:
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In comment 12393576 ZGiants98 said:
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I wondered how long it would take before media types started saying we squashed the deal due to "finances". I wonder what Shecky would have to say about that.
Well, the Mets have certainly earned that scrutiny.
I wouldn't be surprised if Gomez remained healthy for the rest of this year/next year (in relation to his "hip issue")
They just made two trades, completed this one pending medicals, but suddenly it's the 'finances'.
Yes, let's scrutinize this chestnut.
Don't know why you are up my a$$ a lot lately. All I said is that the Mets have earned their scrutiny. Don't think that's so far fetched.
But I'll add you to the "they made two minor trades, they are awesome" crowd.
No, they've shown a willingness lately to make deals. They are currently an active trading partner. I don't see how it makes any sense that they'd squash an agreed-to deal for a player they very much want over financing. Financing they wasn't a surprise and very straightforward.
It doesn't make any sense.
Boras is totally FOS and whether or not you believe the Mets story, Gomez has the same # of SB since June as Michael Cuddyer. If another team acquires Gomez for a premium return and says "no problem with his medical" then I'll grab my pitch fork.
It does not make any sense that they'd duck out at the last minute like MIL was hiding the contract until the last second. They knew what they were getting into financially.
This team has been overwhelmed with financial scrutiny for years. But it doesn't make sense now because YOU don't want it to? Please.
I'm not saying that I'm 100% right about it but they have certainly earned the scrutiny. Wake me up when they actually spend money.
Boras is totally FOS and whether or not you believe the Mets story, Gomez has the same # of SB since June as Michael Cuddyer. If another team acquires Gomez for a premium return and says "no problem with his medical" then I'll grab my pitch fork.
While I agree with 99% of this, I think Id also need to see Gomez produce with his new team as well. If some team acquires him and says "no problem" , Id also want to see that he's not an injured mess from now until the end of the year. If he's still not stealing bases and is struggling, Ill stick with the Mets decision.
This team has been overwhelmed with financial scrutiny for years. But it doesn't make sense now because YOU don't want it to? Please.
I'm not saying that I'm 100% right about it but they have certainly earned the scrutiny. Wake me up when they actually spend money.
They went thru the entire process, agreed to the deal, and then pulled out over finances?
It makes no sense.
Sandy last night said 'we will not be trading for Gomez'. Not 'we're negotiating', 'it's ongoing', etc. If it was financial why would the door be closed? If it was medical, then it makes sense.
100% agreed Shecky, I'm not buying anything from Sherman (Boras) or Brewers FO. Until another team corroborates Gomez health by dealing something good for him, I'm buying the hip problems.
What have the Mets leaked?
It was the Brewers on Twitter last night saying goodbye to Gomez. Boras was informed of the trade.
Next year is a new year and we'll have a full bevy of options to us in the off-season. We also may or not be anywhere close to contention next year. You never know. If Gomez wasn't helping us NOW, I fail to see the point in acquiring him. Especially with the injury risk attached.
Absolutely HAVE to win today's game. Can't lose a series at home to Padres, especially after losing ground last night.
So, after further talks, it was decided that the Brewers would take Flores in addition to Wheeler, who is recovering from Tommy John surgery and won't be able to pitch before next June. The source said the Mets then asked the Brewers to throw in the 2016 Competitive Balance Round B pick they were recently awarded and the Brewers said no.
The source said the Brewers then were asked to put some money in the trade to cover part of what's remaining on Gomez's contract, including a $9 million salary next year. Considering the talent level of Gomez and his reasonable contract, the Brewers understandably declined to put any cash into the deal.
It was only then, according to the source, that the Mets came back and said they were calling off the deal because of concerns over Gomez's medical records.
So, this became a financial issue in the end, which many people would say is not surprising considering the financial constraints the Mets have been operating under in recent years.
And I'm guessing the Brewers are none too thrilled about how this transpired, though the diplomatic Melvin would never say so.
Link - ( New Window )
So, after further talks, it was decided that the Brewers would take Flores in addition to Wheeler, who is recovering from Tommy John surgery and won't be able to pitch before next June. The source said the Mets then asked the Brewers to throw in the 2016 Competitive Balance Round B pick they were recently awarded and the Brewers said no.
The source said the Brewers then were asked to put some money in the trade to cover part of what's remaining on Gomez's contract, including a $9 million salary next year. Considering the talent level of Gomez and his reasonable contract, the Brewers understandably declined to put any cash into the deal.
It was only then, according to the source, that the Mets came back and said they were calling off the deal because of concerns over Gomez's medical records.
So, this became a financial issue in the end, which many people would say is not surprising considering the financial constraints the Mets have been operating under in recent years.
And I'm guessing the Brewers are none too thrilled about how this transpired, though the diplomatic Melvin would never say so. Link - ( New Window )
Sucks, but this is the most believable story.
@jonmorosi
A #BlueJays offer of LHP Daniel Norris, LHP Matt Boyd, and CF Anthony Alford may be enough to get David Price from #Tigers.
So, after further talks, it was decided that the Brewers would take Flores in addition to Wheeler, who is recovering from Tommy John surgery and won't be able to pitch before next June. The source said the Mets then asked the Brewers to throw in the 2016 Competitive Balance Round B pick they were recently awarded and the Brewers said no.
The source said the Brewers then were asked to put some money in the trade to cover part of what's remaining on Gomez's contract, including a $9 million salary next year. Considering the talent level of Gomez and his reasonable contract, the Brewers understandably declined to put any cash into the deal.
It was only then, according to the source, that the Mets came back and said they were calling off the deal because of concerns over Gomez's medical records.
So, this became a financial issue in the end, which many people would say is not surprising considering the financial constraints the Mets have been operating under in recent years.
And I'm guessing the Brewers are none too thrilled about how this transpired, though the diplomatic Melvin would never say so. Link - ( New Window )
When during this process did the Brewers start informing people that the deal was done? This makes it sound like it was never close to done.
It's not like Gomez came in for a physical and was seen by a doctor. This is so obvious it had to do with $$$ issues.
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are two different things. We've seen (or at least heard) about their "willingness" to make deals and come up with nothing. Not shockingly, their two deals both come along with $$ and they STILL haven't increased the payroll. It would't surprise me in the least bit if they were trying to get $$ as a part of the trade and that's what made if fall apart. OR, it could also be Gomez' medicals. Who the hell knows. But I can at least see both sides where you, apparently, cannot.
This team has been overwhelmed with financial scrutiny for years. But it doesn't make sense now because YOU don't want it to? Please.
I'm not saying that I'm 100% right about it but they have certainly earned the scrutiny. Wake me up when they actually spend money.
They went thru the entire process, agreed to the deal, and then pulled out over finances?
It makes no sense.
Sandy last night said 'we will not be trading for Gomez'. Not 'we're negotiating', 'it's ongoing', etc. If it was financial why would the door be closed? If it was medical, then it makes sense.
Maybe. How the hell would any of us know what the parameters were and why they backed out? It's not a secret that Gomez has underperformed this year and he's battling an injury of some type. Don't know what more the medical record could show since he has been playing all along (but it's possible that something could be there).
What we DO know is that they are (and have been) way stingy with finances and have demanded cash back with each of their trades (at the expense of their prospects). Nor have they actually spent any extra money despite all of their "willingness" to trade.
I'm not saying I'm right, but it's certainly not far-fetched. They've earned the scrutiny.
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Or they actually found something wrong in the medical reports? Wow. lol
It's not like Gomez came in for a physical and was seen by a doctor. This is so obvious it had to do with $$$ issues.
What relevance does this have? He doesn't need to physically be there to have his medical information.
A little of both. They do spend quite a bit on IFA's (Osuna quietly has been amazing http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/osunaro01.shtml and they do draft very well. They mix it up college/HS with upside and while it sounds funny on paper they do a fantastic job scouting Canada.
They have talent to spare, aging team thogh
I'm an anti-Wilpon as anyone else but Gomez has a very fair deal and has another affordable year instead of just being a rental. I really think the docs saw something with his hip and that's why the deal is off.
The problem with the implications -- Mets cheaped out on the deal -- is that the story still has holes in in. For example, the Mets asked for a comp pick back before asking for a pick. So maybe they werent hard up. Problem #1. Problem #2 with the story is way bigger. It skips the crucial step where the Brewers announced the trade. I could buy a story that the Mets nixed a trade as it was getting close because the Wilpons are cheap. But if they agreed to a trade, I really dont buy them nixing it because of pure money fears. And I think the worst of the Wilpons.
The Mets are going to take it on the chin here, at least in the media. Unlike Melvin who is saying Gomez is 100% healthy (which is plainly bullshit), the Mets cant put their version of facts out there. They cant say he had cortisone shots or went to 5 doctors or that they have no idea if it is a groin or hip or whatever.
Dave Gershman @Dave_Gershman 7s7 seconds ago
Names discussed are Flores, Niese, Fulmer. DET pushing for Wheeler
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Dave Gershman @Dave_Gershman 33s33 seconds ago
Again, still hearing Mets talks w/ Tigers for Cespedes ongoing after fallout yesterday. DET would need to take salary for deal to happen
How about salary dump of Austin Jackson and hope he just hates Starbucks? #Mets
I just can't understand how it always comes down to how much salary the other team is going to eat. SPEND THE FUCKING MONEY AND THE TRADEOFF WILL BE ASSES IN THE SEATS LATE INTO SEPTEMBER. Holy shit is the ownership frustrating.
What's next, we go back to MLB and ask for another loan?
I wouldn't be thrilled with Flores/Cespedes but seems the least offensive of the rumors. If we have to give up a better prospect because we can't handle the salary then I don't really know what to say.
Would Cespedes remaining salary even equal the Wright insurance money?
Think about the source of a claim that asinine. Not even worth responding to...
Anyway.. if you told me the Mets would lock Cespedes up long-term, I'd deal Wheeler. Knowing I'll never get that assurance and that he'd almost certainly be a rental, Wheeler is too much to give up.
How about salary dump of Austin Jackson and hope he just hates Starbucks? #Mets
I do too - hadn't thought of it until Shecky brought up Seattle and then looked at their roster. He's had 2 awful years there but he'd add some athleticism and he's the kind of guy who can go a short term tear.
Don't think it's impossible for Flores to put up Gomez type numbers at some point sans the steals. It's probably a top 10% outcome for him, and also ignores that a big part of Gomez' value comes from playing CF.
Dave Gershman @Dave_Gershman 33s33 seconds ago
Again, still hearing Mets talks w/ Tigers for Cespedes ongoing after fallout yesterday. DET would need to take salary for deal to happen
Fucking Wilpons. We'll overpay in talent because they cant balance their personal finances.
Daniel Wexler @WexlerRules 3h3 hours ago
@injuryexpert Will, maybe I missed it, given what you know what is the long term prognosis for Gomez's hip? Thanks.
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Will Carroll @injuryexpert 12s12 seconds ago
@WexlerRules he's fine
- Milwaukee was extremely aggressive shopping Gomez.
- Deal was never agreed to when it got leaked. (don't know who leaked it)
- When it got to medicals the Mets saw something and doctors said "no way"
- Brewers still wanted to deal, Mets didn't, Brewers got upset with Mets
- Francesa hearing money stuff not true, Lagares never in deal
- Deal blew up for 1 reason - Gomez health
- Biggest problem with Mets was leaving Flores out there
- They need to turn around and get another player, only way to fix this
- Milwaukee is no longer a possibility to deal with (Parra out)
- Cespedes is not 1 of their options
- 2 offensive options out there they are trying to obtain (doesn't know who they are, CarGonz, Upton, Reddick)
Dan, Flores' numbers are actually a bit better than Gomez' numbers were at the same age. Why could Gomez develop but Flores can't? You can't compare Flores at 23 to Gomez at 29. Doesn't work that way.
- Milwaukee was extremely aggressive shopping Gomez.
- Deal was never agreed to when it got leaked. (don't know who leaked it)
- When it got to medicals the Mets saw something and doctors said "no way"
- Brewers still wanted to deal, Mets didn't, Brewers got upset with Mets
- Francesa hearing money stuff not true, Lagares never in deal
- Deal blew up for 1 reason - Gomez health
- Biggest problem with Mets was leaving Flores out there
- They need to turn around and get another player, only way to fix this
- Milwaukee is no longer a possibility to deal with (Parra out)
- Cespedes is not 1 of their options
- 2 offensive options out there they are trying to obtain (doesn't know who they are, CarGonz, Upton, Reddick)
How the hell does Francesa, of all people, have all of t his information?
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Gomez has posted a 118 OPS+ the past 4 seasons, Wilmer Flores averaging 24 homers 32 2b's and 7 triples over 162, Wilmer Flores is one day going to do that? Gomez also (while not a high OBP guy) still has averaged 40+ walks per season Flores has a career .281 OBP and an 81 OPS+
Dan, Flores' numbers are actually a bit better than Gomez' numbers were at the same age. Why could Gomez develop but Flores can't? You can't compare Flores at 23 to Gomez at 29. Doesn't work that way.
In that case every 23 year old has good odds of being as good as player X. Flores has been terrible by every measure beyond a few homers. No reason to believe some unbelievable development is on it's way. .281 OBP alone is horrifying.
Generally I agree but
1. Francesa is close with Jeff
2. He claimed yesterday the cost for Cespedes would be Syndergaard. Which is absolutely ridiculous and unbelievable.
- Milwaukee was extremely aggressive shopping Gomez.
- Deal was never agreed to when it got leaked. (don't know who leaked it)
- When it got to medicals the Mets saw something and doctors said "no way"
- Brewers still wanted to deal, Mets didn't, Brewers got upset with Mets
- Francesa hearing money stuff not true, Lagares never in deal
- Deal blew up for 1 reason - Gomez health
- Biggest problem with Mets was leaving Flores out there
- They need to turn around and get another player, only way to fix this
- Milwaukee is no longer a possibility to deal with (Parra out)
- Cespedes is not 1 of their options
- 2 offensive options out there they are trying to obtain (doesn't know who they are, CarGonz, Upton, Reddick)
This sounds likely. Also would explain why the Mets started Flores.
Too much BS out there.
Too much BS out there.
Zack Wheeler was still a pretty high price for a guy signed for one more season. Bruce is signed for 2 more and the Reds likely know the Mets are desperate now. I'd be pretty shocked if Wheeler/Flores were enough at this point.
After noting that his paper's first report was that Wheeler's meds nixed it:
(and BTW, attributing the Wheeler report to his paper is scummy -- he reported it via twitter).
So this asshole has now reported that it was (1) Wheeler's arm, (2) Gomez's hip (according to "sources", and now (3) strongly suggesting it was the Mets' cheapness. In the course of about 16 hours. With no sourcing for the insinuations about the Mets's motives. Seems like crappy reporting.
Also, his article said that "HIPAA laws prevented Brewers general manager Doug Melvin from commenting on anyone's physical issues." Which is pretty funny because now Melvin is talking about Gomez's physical issues. Again, what gives?
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Gotta wait and see. 2 days ago everyone was so sure Gomez was costing "the moon" and that wound up not being the case.
Too much BS out there.
Zack Wheeler was still a pretty high price for a guy signed for one more season. Bruce is signed for 2 more and the Reds likely know the Mets are desperate now. I'd be pretty shocked if Wheeler/Flores were enough at this point.
Wheeler in a Bruce deal is way, way different than Wheeler in a Cespedes deal though.
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In comment 12393904 DanMetroMan said:
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Gomez has posted a 118 OPS+ the past 4 seasons, Wilmer Flores averaging 24 homers 32 2b's and 7 triples over 162, Wilmer Flores is one day going to do that? Gomez also (while not a high OBP guy) still has averaged 40+ walks per season Flores has a career .281 OBP and an 81 OPS+
Dan, Flores' numbers are actually a bit better than Gomez' numbers were at the same age. Why could Gomez develop but Flores can't? You can't compare Flores at 23 to Gomez at 29. Doesn't work that way.
In that case every 23 year old has good odds of being as good as player X. Flores has been terrible by every measure beyond a few homers. No reason to believe some unbelievable development is on it's way. .281 OBP alone is horrifying.
Dan, you may be correct, except that Flores always put up outstanding stats in the minors the entire time he was there. The talent is there...it's not like there is nothing to fall back on.
The point is that his numbers, offensively at least, were better than Gomez' numbers were at the same age. It's not outlandish that Flores can develop into a really nice offensive player (minus the speed) given time and stability.
Gomez' OBP at age 23 was...as you put it...horrifying at .287. It didn't even eclipse .300 until age 26 when it was .305.
To be clear I'm not suggesting suddenly it's Wheeler AND Matz or something. I just suspect if Bruce is traded it's at a higher price than the agreed to Gomez deal.
"Walk off homer! and for one night in October, Jay is the most popular Bruce in the NY/NJ area" Future after game 7 of WS #Mets
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Probably right but it's possible it won't take much more. Maybe throw in a Gsellman and that gets it done. Would really, really prefer a player who isn't a pure rental.
To be clear I'm not suggesting suddenly it's Wheeler AND Matz or something. I just suspect if Bruce is traded it's at a higher price than the agreed to Gomez deal.
I agree, it would make sense. The extra year of being able to control Bruce adds a little to his price tag as it should.
These "sources" use the writers to further their personal agenda's and the writers buy right into it.
LAD get Latos,Wood,Avilan,Johnson, Peraza, Morse, Arroyo ATL get Olivera,Rodriguez,draft pick,Bird FL save16-18m, Araujo,Guzman,Brigham DONE