Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 51s51 seconds ago
Gomez had MRI 3-4 weeks back for an abductor issue. Not hip. Medical report said no problem with abductor or hip
obviously haven't seen the medicals so maybe Gomez is really truly damaged but I would have still done the deal. The contract is too good to ignore. He's so cheap the Mets could add Gomez AND another bat in the off-season without having to suspend disbelief.
I totally disagree. We were already paying full price+ for a healthy Gomez. Figure he has 8 fWAR left on his contract. I really think that Wheeler's 3.5 remaining pre-arb years are 11 fWAR or better. Wilmer could be a zero, but it's gotta be 50-50 that he starts hitting and gives us 6-10 fWAR over his last 4 seasons. So lets conservatively say that's 12-15 fWAR for 8fWAR. Add a touch of value to the Gomez side since he is more likely than Wheeler or Flores to return a comp pick. Im not doing back flips but I can deal with that trade.
Now put that 8+ fWAR at substantial risk. Unless an injury is minor, you just never know. What if Gomez shuts it down on 3/15 after not getting better in the offseason to get hip surgery so that he's more healthy for UFA? Speculation yes, but he's been dealing with this hip issue for the whole season along with a hammy early and groin soreness of late. Legs are scary, especially for guys who make a living running.
Im not trading Wheeler and Flores for potentially damages goods. This team has too good of a young core to swing wildly like that.
If Carlos Gomez is totally fine and there's no issue, why has he stolen just ONE base since June 6th? This is a guy who swiped 34 last year and 40 the year before.
Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 1m1 minute ago
#Mets faced '16 with 4 OFs making big $. Probably were being uber cautious with Gomez's medicals to have that payroll issue #Brewers
Pretty sad that at this point Lagares counts as "big money" for us. Isnt he making like 7 mill?
projection for Zack Wheeler going forward is 100% guesswork. TONS of pitchers never make it back to even close to their past "glory" and the Mets have already acknowledged Wheeler had more extensive surgery than others. I don't think it's fair to assume he's coming back and going to be worth "X" the rest of the way and my whole opinion is based on IF it turns out Gomez injury is a minor deal. If it's a minor deal then why is he shutting it down NEXT season on 3/5? The guy has been an MVP caliber player (10th in fWAR last year). Also while I'm all about the stats, a players impact on the 2015 vs. someone NOT playing can't be overstated. If Gomez is worth even 1 extra win this year that can be the difference between a WS and sitting at home.
If Carlos Gomez is totally fine and there's no issue, why has he stolen just ONE base since June 6th? This is a guy who swiped 34 last year and 40 the year before.
I'm not suggesting he's "fine". I'm stating if this is a "concern about pulling it further" issue and he's "very likely" to be 100% next year then I'm going to be very upset.
Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 1m1 minute ago
"We take a lot of pride in that. We dont think anything is wrong with him besides any nick that happens to any ballplayer." (Cont)
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Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 2m2 minutes ago
Melvin: "I dont believe Carlos Gomez has a phsycial issue. Our training staff won best in baseball the last 2 years." (cont)
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Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 2m2 minutes ago
Checked with #Brewers GM Doug Melvin again this morning and he said #Mets had concerns with Gomez medicals but Milw does not.
Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 1m1 minute ago
"We take a lot of pride in that. We dont think anything is wrong with him besides any nick that happens to any ballplayer." (Cont)
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Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 2m2 minutes ago
Melvin: "I dont believe Carlos Gomez has a phsycial issue. Our training staff won best in baseball the last 2 years." (cont)
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Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 2m2 minutes ago
Checked with #Brewers GM Doug Melvin again this morning and he said #Mets had concerns with Gomez medicals but Milw does not.
Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 51s51 seconds ago
Gomez had MRI 3-4 weeks back for an abductor issue. Not hip. Medical report said no problem with abductor or hip
Joel Sherman is getting spun. And abductor is not a specific muscle. It is a muscle that draws the limb away from the median plane of the body. There are several muscles that draw the leg away from the body like this, and one (glutius medius) is often called the "hip abductor". Moreover, MLB.com reported last month that the MRI was on his hip:
Quote:
Seeking to rule out the possibility of a structural injury, Carlos Gomez and the Brewers received some peace of mind on Tuesday after the outfielder underwent an MRI on his bothersome right hip.
headed to see doctors. Remember the Mets supposedly found "no injury" with Montero and were perplexed as to why he was taking so long. This is the type of thing that causes me to doubt the Gomez decision.
If Carlos Gomez is totally fine and there's no issue, why has he stolen just ONE base since June 6th? This is a guy who swiped 34 last year and 40 the year before.
I'm not suggesting he's "fine". I'm stating if this is a "concern about pulling it further" issue and he's "very likely" to be 100% next year then I'm going to be very upset.
Ok, well if he's not fine now you can't give up a big piece for him. It's too easy to wait and see what happens and decide the Mets should have done the opposite. Doesn't work that way in real time.
They're obviously being cautious. Too cautious? I don't know. What I do know is that if he were to aggravate the injury and wind up shelved, Alderson would get absolutely annihilated for dealing for damaged goods.
Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 1m1 minute ago
#Mets faced '16 with 4 OFs making big $. Probably were being uber cautious with Gomez's medicals to have that payroll issue #Brewers
Pretty sad that at this point Lagares counts as "big money" for us. Isnt he making like 7 mill?
Just an educated guess, but I think Joel Sherman is effectively acting as Boras's mouthpiece right now.
drafted in 2013, has thrown 73.2 innings, won't throw another one until 2017. That's going to be a rough way to go about having a career. Sucks.
Matz dealt with a lot of stuff early too. We should only be so lucky. It looked like Taylor had rebounded from a disaster of a year he had last year and even if he could not be a starter, as a lefty with his groundball tendencies may have had some potential out of the bullpen
headed to see doctors. Remember the Mets supposedly found "no injury" with Montero and were perplexed as to why he was taking so long. This is the type of thing that causes me to doubt the Gomez decision.
Maybe they should send Montero to the Brewers doctors and training staff.
drafted in 2013, has thrown 73.2 innings, won't throw another one until 2017. That's going to be a rough way to go about having a career. Sucks.
Matz dealt with a lot of stuff early too. We should only be so lucky. It looked like Taylor had rebounded from a disaster of a year he had last year and even if he could not be a starter, as a lefty with his groundball tendencies may have had some potential out of the bullpen
Matz had much better pure stuff. Taylor was 86-88 per Jeff P
Andy Martino @MartinoNYDN 7s8 seconds ago
#Mets not on Justin Upton because, in part, preference is to avoid half season rentals.
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drafted in 2013, has thrown 73.2 innings, won't throw another one until 2017. That's going to be a rough way to go about having a career. Sucks.
This was inevitable. During a start
"What's he throwing?"
85
"What about his fastball?"
Hasnt thrown one
2 minutes later
"You won't believe this. That WAS his fastball"
If you point was still do the trade if Gomez only had a minor injury/soreness, than I understand. That's just not how I read the original post.
Also, fair enough on Wheeler.
My point was I'll be really disappointed if it turns out his injury is simply a "now" thing ie soreness/scared to run to pull it further vs. a major issue. No way I do the deal if it's something degenerative. I just hope it's not something on the brink of a "pull" that would cost him weeks and that's the reasoning. If he's expected to be 100% next season with zero ill effects I'll be bummed.
Interesting that Mets have a rash of TJ issues AFTER Peterson left but not during his tenure.
A lot of them are happening pre-MLB level, though. Does Warthen have any control over how they're taught in the lower levels ?
To my knowledge Ron Romanick is still the Mets pitching coordinator and is a well thought of guy (also hasn't been here that long). Still the numbers are staggering, it's 16-17 guys without even digging deep. Bet it's 20+
Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal
Can confirm much of what @Joelsherman1 reported: #Mets asked #Brewers if they wanted Lagares. MIL wanted Flores rather than Lagares $$. #Mets also asked #Brewers about getting comp pick and/or cash in deal. MIL said no. Deal was agreed to, pending medicals. #Mets backed out. As I reported, #Mets had concern over hip issue. Gomez missed time in June with reported problem; some say it was more groin-related. Gomezs agent, Scott Boras, says Gomez has never seen a hip doctor or had hip issue. #Mets believe scrutiny was justified and warranted.
Tom @Haudricourt
The more details I get on nixed Gomez trade, the more it sounds as if it became more financial matter than medical matter. Anyone surprised?
Not sure why Boras would have any credibility here
so I'll just go on the assumption that his hip was not encouraging enough to agree to. They need someone who can help right now. Makes no sense to acquire an injured player.
Tom @Haudricourt
The more details I get on nixed Gomez trade, the more it sounds as if it became more financial matter than medical matter. Anyone surprised?
Maybe The deal was done and Alderson brought it to the Owner and he said no we cant afford it?
Interesting that Mets have a rash of TJ issues AFTER Peterson left but not during his tenure.
A lot of them are happening pre-MLB level, though. Does Warthen have any control over how they're taught in the lower levels ?
To my knowledge Ron Romanick is still the Mets pitching coordinator and is a well thought of guy (also hasn't been here that long). Still the numbers are staggering, it's 16-17 guys without even digging deep. Bet it's 20+
It certainly seems high. I'd be interested to know if it's technique related or not.
I wondered how long it would take before media types started saying we squashed the deal due to "finances". I wonder what Shecky would have to say about that.
Tom @Haudricourt
The more details I get on nixed Gomez trade, the more it sounds as if it became more financial matter than medical matter. Anyone surprised?
wow..so the Brewers beat writer is claiming that there is no health related issues with Gomez? Anyone surprised?
if there ISN'T a health issue with Gomez, then he's either having a miserable year or in rapid decline.
If I were Gomez I'd be telling EVERYONE that I'm not 100%, so I can explain my year.
Said on wfan that sandy and terry met for a few hours to discuss the team before yesterdays game and obviously no mention of the trade being a possibility
Tom @Haudricourt
The more details I get on nixed Gomez trade, the more it sounds as if it became more financial matter than medical matter. Anyone surprised?
wow..so the Brewers beat writer is claiming that there is no health related issues with Gomez? Anyone surprised?
if there ISN'T a health issue with Gomez, then he's either having a miserable year or in rapid decline.
If I were Gomez I'd be telling EVERYONE that I'm not 100%, so I can explain my year.
Yeah that makes perfect sense. Especially considering Gomez himself was quoted saying he is "scared" to run because of his hip. lol
I wondered how long it would take before media types started saying we squashed the deal due to "finances". I wonder what Shecky would have to say about that.
Well, the Mets have certainly earned that scrutiny.
I wouldn't be surprised if Gomez remained healthy for the rest of this year/next year (in relation to his "hip issue")
Even I wouldn't buy the 'finances' chatter and I'm quite Anti-Wilpon
You have to be a real tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist to think that this fell apart because the Mets suddenly realized Carlos Gomez's contract when the deal was agreed in principle.
Gomez had MRI 3-4 weeks back for an abductor issue. Not hip. Medical report said no problem with abductor or hip
Melvin: "I dont believe Carlos Gomez has a phsycial issue. Our training staff won best in baseball the last 2 years." (cont)
.
HAAAAAAA
Touch Mr Melvin.
I totally disagree. We were already paying full price+ for a healthy Gomez. Figure he has 8 fWAR left on his contract. I really think that Wheeler's 3.5 remaining pre-arb years are 11 fWAR or better. Wilmer could be a zero, but it's gotta be 50-50 that he starts hitting and gives us 6-10 fWAR over his last 4 seasons. So lets conservatively say that's 12-15 fWAR for 8fWAR. Add a touch of value to the Gomez side since he is more likely than Wheeler or Flores to return a comp pick. Im not doing back flips but I can deal with that trade.
Now put that 8+ fWAR at substantial risk. Unless an injury is minor, you just never know. What if Gomez shuts it down on 3/15 after not getting better in the offseason to get hip surgery so that he's more healthy for UFA? Speculation yes, but he's been dealing with this hip issue for the whole season along with a hammy early and groin soreness of late. Legs are scary, especially for guys who make a living running.
Im not trading Wheeler and Flores for potentially damages goods. This team has too good of a young core to swing wildly like that.
#Mets faced '16 with 4 OFs making big $. Probably were being uber cautious with Gomez's medicals to have that payroll issue #Brewers
Pretty sad that at this point Lagares counts as "big money" for us. Isnt he making like 7 mill?
I'm not suggesting he's "fine". I'm stating if this is a "concern about pulling it further" issue and he's "very likely" to be 100% next year then I'm going to be very upset.
"We take a lot of pride in that. We dont think anything is wrong with him besides any nick that happens to any ballplayer." (Cont)
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Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 2m2 minutes ago
Melvin: "I dont believe Carlos Gomez has a phsycial issue. Our training staff won best in baseball the last 2 years." (cont)
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Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 2m2 minutes ago
Checked with #Brewers GM Doug Melvin again this morning and he said #Mets had concerns with Gomez medicals but Milw does not.
So where'd that gomez quote come from?
Quote:
Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 1m1 minute ago
"We take a lot of pride in that. We dont think anything is wrong with him besides any nick that happens to any ballplayer." (Cont)
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Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 2m2 minutes ago
Melvin: "I dont believe Carlos Gomez has a phsycial issue. Our training staff won best in baseball the last 2 years." (cont)
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Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 2m2 minutes ago
Checked with #Brewers GM Doug Melvin again this morning and he said #Mets had concerns with Gomez medicals but Milw does not.
So where'd that gomez quote come from?
?? From the Brewers GM. Not from me.
Gomez had MRI 3-4 weeks back for an abductor issue. Not hip. Medical report said no problem with abductor or hip
Joel Sherman is getting spun. And abductor is not a specific muscle. It is a muscle that draws the limb away from the median plane of the body. There are several muscles that draw the leg away from the body like this, and one (glutius medius) is often called the "hip abductor". Moreover, MLB.com reported last month that the MRI was on his hip:
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
If Carlos Gomez is totally fine and there's no issue, why has he stolen just ONE base since June 6th? This is a guy who swiped 34 last year and 40 the year before.
I'm not suggesting he's "fine". I'm stating if this is a "concern about pulling it further" issue and he's "very likely" to be 100% next year then I'm going to be very upset.
Ok, well if he's not fine now you can't give up a big piece for him. It's too easy to wait and see what happens and decide the Mets should have done the opposite. Doesn't work that way in real time.
They're obviously being cautious. Too cautious? I don't know. What I do know is that if he were to aggravate the injury and wind up shelved, Alderson would get absolutely annihilated for dealing for damaged goods.
#Mets faced '16 with 4 OFs making big $. Probably were being uber cautious with Gomez's medicals to have that payroll issue #Brewers
Pretty sad that at this point Lagares counts as "big money" for us. Isnt he making like 7 mill?
Just an educated guess, but I think Joel Sherman is effectively acting as Boras's mouthpiece right now.
Matz dealt with a lot of stuff early too. We should only be so lucky. It looked like Taylor had rebounded from a disaster of a year he had last year and even if he could not be a starter, as a lefty with his groundball tendencies may have had some potential out of the bullpen
Maybe they should send Montero to the Brewers doctors and training staff.
Harvey
deGrom
Wheeler
Hefner
Magliozzi
Blake Taylor
Chris Flexen
Luis Mateo
Bashlor
Parnell
Walters
Luis Silva
Logan Taylor
Sounds like Ty Hensley.
Quote:
drafted in 2013, has thrown 73.2 innings, won't throw another one until 2017. That's going to be a rough way to go about having a career. Sucks.
Matz dealt with a lot of stuff early too. We should only be so lucky. It looked like Taylor had rebounded from a disaster of a year he had last year and even if he could not be a starter, as a lefty with his groundball tendencies may have had some potential out of the bullpen
Matz had much better pure stuff. Taylor was 86-88 per Jeff P
#Mets not on Justin Upton because, in part, preference is to avoid half season rentals.
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Harvey
deGrom
Wheeler
Hefner
Magliozzi
Blake Taylor
Chris Flexen
Luis Mateo
Bashlor
Parnell
Walters
Luis Silva
Logan Taylor
Edgin too?
Quote:
Matz
Harvey
deGrom
Wheeler
Hefner
Magliozzi
Blake Taylor
Chris Flexen
Luis Mateo
Bashlor
Parnell
Walters
Luis Silva
Logan Taylor
Edgin too?
Yup forgot him as well. That's pretty nuts
Also, fair enough on Wheeler.
This was inevitable. During a start
"What's he throwing?"
85
"What about his fastball?"
Hasnt thrown one
2 minutes later
"You won't believe this. That WAS his fastball"
Also, fair enough on Wheeler.
My point was I'll be really disappointed if it turns out his injury is simply a "now" thing ie soreness/scared to run to pull it further vs. a major issue. No way I do the deal if it's something degenerative. I just hope it's not something on the brink of a "pull" that would cost him weeks and that's the reasoning. If he's expected to be 100% next season with zero ill effects I'll be bummed.
Quote:
In comment 12393514 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Matz
Harvey
deGrom
Wheeler
Hefner
Magliozzi
Blake Taylor
Chris Flexen
Luis Mateo
Bashlor
Parnell
Walters
Luis Silva
Logan Taylor
Edgin too?
Yup forgot him as well. That's pretty nuts
Marcos Molina as well?
A lot of them are happening pre-MLB level, though. Does Warthen have any control over how they're taught in the lower levels ?
Quote:
Interesting that Mets have a rash of TJ issues AFTER Peterson left but not during his tenure.
A lot of them are happening pre-MLB level, though. Does Warthen have any control over how they're taught in the lower levels ?
To my knowledge Ron Romanick is still the Mets pitching coordinator and is a well thought of guy (also hasn't been here that long). Still the numbers are staggering, it's 16-17 guys without even digging deep. Bet it's 20+
Can confirm much of what @Joelsherman1 reported: #Mets asked #Brewers if they wanted Lagares. MIL wanted Flores rather than Lagares $$. #Mets also asked #Brewers about getting comp pick and/or cash in deal. MIL said no. Deal was agreed to, pending medicals. #Mets backed out. As I reported, #Mets had concern over hip issue. Gomez missed time in June with reported problem; some say it was more groin-related. Gomezs agent, Scott Boras, says Gomez has never seen a hip doctor or had hip issue. #Mets believe scrutiny was justified and warranted.
Tom @Haudricourt
The more details I get on nixed Gomez trade, the more it sounds as if it became more financial matter than medical matter. Anyone surprised?
Tom @Haudricourt
The more details I get on nixed Gomez trade, the more it sounds as if it became more financial matter than medical matter. Anyone surprised?
Maybe The deal was done and Alderson brought it to the Owner and he said no we cant afford it?
Quote:
In comment 12393537 Shecky said:
Quote:
Interesting that Mets have a rash of TJ issues AFTER Peterson left but not during his tenure.
A lot of them are happening pre-MLB level, though. Does Warthen have any control over how they're taught in the lower levels ?
To my knowledge Ron Romanick is still the Mets pitching coordinator and is a well thought of guy (also hasn't been here that long). Still the numbers are staggering, it's 16-17 guys without even digging deep. Bet it's 20+
It certainly seems high. I'd be interested to know if it's technique related or not.
Tom @Haudricourt
The more details I get on nixed Gomez trade, the more it sounds as if it became more financial matter than medical matter. Anyone surprised?
wow..so the Brewers beat writer is claiming that there is no health related issues with Gomez? Anyone surprised?
if there ISN'T a health issue with Gomez, then he's either having a miserable year or in rapid decline.
If I were Gomez I'd be telling EVERYONE that I'm not 100%, so I can explain my year.
Had a couple non-Brewers industry folk speculate the same thing last night
Quote:
Tom @Haudricourt
The more details I get on nixed Gomez trade, the more it sounds as if it became more financial matter than medical matter. Anyone surprised?
wow..so the Brewers beat writer is claiming that there is no health related issues with Gomez? Anyone surprised?
if there ISN'T a health issue with Gomez, then he's either having a miserable year or in rapid decline.
If I were Gomez I'd be telling EVERYONE that I'm not 100%, so I can explain my year.
Yeah that makes perfect sense. Especially considering Gomez himself was quoted saying he is "scared" to run because of his hip. lol
Well, the Mets have certainly earned that scrutiny.
I wouldn't be surprised if Gomez remained healthy for the rest of this year/next year (in relation to his "hip issue")