so he'll need to prove he's still got enough athletic gifts, KWALL's right in that his numbers a year ago raise questions.
I think his #'s have something to do w/being in a new offense & a young QB learning to be a pro.He did have a career high 73 catches although his 9.1 avg was a career low. At the price we're getting him, questions on Cruz,OBJ's health & his knowledge of the O, this is a no brainer!
so he'll need to prove he's still got enough athletic gifts, KWALL's right in that his numbers a year ago raise questions.
Sure they do, but as a 4th receiver with vet/championship experience, with an OC who knows his strengths (and weaknesses) and can play to them as needed, this is a no-lose, no-brainer signing imo..If he's truly toast or close to it, we wave bye-bye and very little, if anything, is lost..
I'm not knocking the signing, if you read my prior posts
just stating he'll need to earn a roster spot, and he'll probably wind up the #4 WR on the depth chart. A potentially good add and worth bringing him in even for competition only.
Quality depth and four WRs is a good thing, perhaps he'll help compress RR's numbers ahead of extension talks.
Washington, and Recent draft pick Davis to me seem to be the 5-6 WR.
Then you have Parker, and Edwards. I hope Edwards can get stashed on PS. But other than camp compettition I just don't see the aging vet on the decline as beating out any of these young guys.
I'm just not that concerned with his numbers in Oakland..Not sure how he was used and what system was in place there..I guess we'll know, sooner, rather than later..
He is veteran depth with a proven track record in the NFL, coming to a system he is familiar with. He does not push anyone off the roster who deserves a spot. He is here to compete, and push someone off the roster if he outperforms them. That is exactly what every team tries to do in training camp - have several viable options that push each other to play better.
I am not sure how there is any downside to this signing at all. Did he get a deal that makes him un-cuttable this year?
Is Jones's lack of speed a bigger issue in an offense predicated on a three step drop? I imagine quickness is more important in this system than the prior one, which allowed for longer developing routes.
He had 666 yards & 6 TDs with a rookie QB who had no time to throw the ball & Jones was the only legit option. So he saw all of the defenses attention. My good friend is a Raiders fan so I watched a decent amount of their games. If he had a veteran QB he would have been around 900-1000 yards & 9-10 TDs.
I try to make it my business to watch all new QBs with potential in year 1..He took many a beating, yet continually brushed himself off and got back on the horse..I think this kid's gonna be a heckuva QB moving forward
If he finds the sticks on 3rd down he would be worth keeping.
It was probably worse then what Eli has been going through the last two years.
I only watched them a handful of times last year and they were awful. And to your point, they had no weapons. Our OL had streaks of decent play last year IMO.
had to groan the minute we signed Dwayne Harris. Don't they do the exact same thing? With Harris being bigger, stronger, faster and more highly compensated?
Harris backs up Cruz, with Washington and James Jones vs. Geremy Davis outside.
I think people on BBI value Washington a lot more than the staff
from what I've gathered since a year ago, you're on target. Fans over-emphasize his pre-season performance versus players also low on the depth chart, while TC had to address CW's complaining in the press.
from what I've gathered since a year ago, you're on target. Fans over-emphasize his pre-season performance versus players also low on the depth chart, while TC had to address CW's complaining in the press.
A lesson well learned years ago when I predicted stardom for Damon Washington off of what I (thought I) saw in camp..Haven't made that mistake since though I did think Bradshaw was gonna be special..
His height is a useful addition to the WR group if he can learn to play. He hasn't actually done anything. I see the point in holding on to him, but I where he is on the depth chart is perfect for him.
Tim Carter, Sinorice Moss, Derek Hagan, Ramses Barden, Jerrel Jernigan
All these fine gentlemen have started at WR for the Giants during the Coughlin era. David Tyree belongs on that list of scrub starters too, but one catch elevated him slightly above scrub status.
Not to mention the longer list of scrub WRs who have seen meaningful snaps for Coughlin's Giants because of injuries.
After what Cruz did in 2010 was going to be hard not to compare them. The difference is Cruz got a shot due to injury and kept making plays after a rough beginning. Washington may never get the chance.
busted his arse in practice, further demonstrating his grasp of assignments and his professionalism. He got "it", CW's complaints indicate he does not.
We haven't heard much of CW's practice prowess, other than TC indicating his grasp of the route tree and playbook had not been good enough, nor has his contributions on special teams.
It's up to the player to earn reps, not the other way around.
busted his arse in practice, further demonstrating his grasp of assignments and his professionalism. He got "it", CW's complaints indicate he does not.
We haven't heard much of CW's practice prowess, other than TC indicating his grasp of the route tree and playbook had not been good enough, nor has his contributions on special teams.
It's up to the player to earn reps, not the other way around.
Is that true?
I thought he had a shitty preseason in 2011, being on the verge of being cut.
But because of his ingame performance from preseason 2010 he was kept around.
Then he only got a shot after Hixon blew out his knee week 2 and blew up in game against Philly
other than the Jets game, but indications were he was busting his arse across the board. Personality shined, hard work kept him in good graces, etc. Coaches indicated Cruz needed to translate it all to game performance, which he eventually did. Off the top of my head I don't recall his 2010.
I hope he doesn't take playing time away from him.
I think maybe the Giants coaching staff has given up on Corey Washington ever being able to block or, despite his height advantage, break free of coverage.
RE: Tim Carter, Sinorice Moss, Derek Hagan, Ramses Barden, Jerrel Jernigan
All these fine gentlemen have started at WR for the Giants during the Coughlin era. David Tyree belongs on that list of scrub starters too, but one catch elevated him slightly above scrub status.
Not to mention the longer list of scrub WRs who have seen meaningful snaps for Coughlin's Giants because of injuries.
Depth is good. Good depth is very good.
At least Tyree was a Special Teams terror. The others mentioned were all just useless.
...a guy like Jones also gives you the option of working Beckham in the slot if it gives you the best matchup. Kind of lost in the all the superficial aspects of his rookie year but it's very clear that the kid's mental grasp of the game is very strong. I don't think working multiple positions would inhibit him as much as it does other younger receivers trying to find a fit and trying to cover him with a free release is just stupid.
Not to mention there's now a little more fuel behind the fire they have to light under Randle to keep him on track in that the guy they brought in can probably hit the ground running and has been productive in a similar system; not a UDFA who had a couple good practices. Although from a long term perspective I would hope it ends up coming from a youngster as well as I don't think Jones wheels will make him a part of the future.
I imaging in light of the JPP situation it's clear that if the season is going to go anywhere the offense needs to come out swinging and give guys like Moore and OO a better chance to make an impact by playing with a lead (something that is kind of a rarity for going on 5 years). This is a decent little piece of insurance that the personnel on the outside is up to task.
other than the Jets game, but indications were he was busting his arse across the board. Personality shined, hard work kept him in good graces, etc. Coaches indicated Cruz needed to translate it all to game performance, which he eventually did. Off the top of my head I don't recall his 2010.
Sure you do..His spectacular Jets game in pre-season
busted his arse in practice, further demonstrating his grasp of assignments and his professionalism. He got "it", CW's complaints indicate he does not.
We haven't heard much of CW's practice prowess, other than TC indicating his grasp of the route tree and playbook had not been good enough, nor has his contributions on special teams.
It's up to the player to earn reps, not the other way around.
Is that true?
I thought he had a shitty preseason in 2011, being on the verge of being cut.
But because of his ingame performance from preseason 2010 he was kept around.
Then he only got a shot after Hixon blew out his knee week 2 and blew up in game against Philly
Am I mis-remembering?
Cruz was stashed away on IR in 2010 with a hamstring injury when the Giants needed to clear up roster spots...and subsequently could have used Cruz later in the year when Steve Smith got hurt.
And Cruz had a critical drop in the 2011 opener in Washington that cost the Giants a first down and he was benched. The Giants actually brought in Brandon Stokely to take his spot in the slot and he played there for the Rams game. When Hixon tore his ACL on that circus catch in the end zone, that gave Cruz his chance and he made the most of it in Philly in Week 3 and that was that.
Stats. He was targeted more last year than any other year in his career. If he makes the team he helps with depth and teaching other receivers the ins and outs of the offense.
other than the Jets game, but indications were he was busting his arse across the board. Personality shined, hard work kept him in good graces, etc. Coaches indicated Cruz needed to translate it all to game performance, which he eventually did. Off the top of my head I don't recall his 2010.
Sure you do..His spectacular Jets game in pre-season
I'd forgotten that game was 2010. But, what I'd heard was he was doing all the right things in 2011, just needed to perform in games, which he eventually did as Matt recalls. Some public talk was he had one foot out the door late in 2011 camp, but reality was no one was outplaying Cruz either.
Beckham
Cruz
Randle
Parker
Harris
Jones
Washington
Davis
Out of those 8 receivers, the Giants have 5 guys they can feel confident with marching out on the field Week 1. The depth allows them time to bring Cruz along slowly, and a period of learning the offense for Harris and the rookie.
And when an injury pops up they won't be left in a bad spot. Green Bay has always been deep at WR, so this is also consistent with what McAdoo has worked with in the past.
Can jones play the slot? If he is a security blanket he better be able to play the slot. We are a better team when Cruz is able to play the slot full time.
camp reports on Cruz when Cruz was a rookie were always fun to read. he was constantly getting behind the secondary. Even TC went out of the way to tell the writers they should be paying closer attention. I have seen any of that with washington.....
I feel like this is like the Brandon Stokely signing
if he makes the team, we have a dependable veteran. If he doesn't, at least he helped push the younger guys like CW and helped them catch up on their assignments and reads.
a major move but it shows me the team is quietly putting together team that may be able to make some noise this year, especially if they bring in Jake Long...
Quote:
Yup. On the same page.
glad to hear it!
Sonofa...
I think his #'s have something to do w/being in a new offense & a young QB learning to be a pro.He did have a career high 73 catches although his 9.1 avg was a career low. At the price we're getting him, questions on Cruz,OBJ's health & his knowledge of the O, this is a no brainer!
Sure they do, but as a 4th receiver with vet/championship experience, with an OC who knows his strengths (and weaknesses) and can play to them as needed, this is a no-lose, no-brainer signing imo..If he's truly toast or close to it, we wave bye-bye and very little, if anything, is lost..
Quality depth and four WRs is a good thing, perhaps he'll help compress RR's numbers ahead of extension talks.
Beckham, Cruz, Randle, Harris are locks.
Washington, and Recent draft pick Davis to me seem to be the 5-6 WR.
Then you have Parker, and Edwards. I hope Edwards can get stashed on PS. But other than camp compettition I just don't see the aging vet on the decline as beating out any of these young guys.
I am not sure how there is any downside to this signing at all. Did he get a deal that makes him un-cuttable this year?
Question if NYG considering using 4 WR sets more frequently would they keep 7? Don't know how they could without being thin someplace else.
Quote:
Yup. On the same page.
glad to hear it!
He meant the better Jon.
Is Jones's lack of speed a bigger issue in an offense predicated on a three step drop? I imagine quickness is more important in this system than the prior one, which allowed for longer developing routes.
I only watched them a handful of times last year and they were awful. And to your point, they had no weapons. Our OL had streaks of decent play last year IMO.
LOL! My sentiments exactly though I'm sure he bring needed depth.
Ben Edwards to IR is my guess.
Harris backs up Cruz, with Washington and James Jones vs. Geremy Davis outside.
A lesson well learned years ago when I predicted stardom for Damon Washington off of what I (thought I) saw in camp..Haven't made that mistake since though I did think Bradshaw was gonna be special..
Not to mention the longer list of scrub WRs who have seen meaningful snaps for Coughlin's Giants because of injuries.
Depth is good. Good depth is very good.
We haven't heard much of CW's practice prowess, other than TC indicating his grasp of the route tree and playbook had not been good enough, nor has his contributions on special teams.
It's up to the player to earn reps, not the other way around.
We haven't heard much of CW's practice prowess, other than TC indicating his grasp of the route tree and playbook had not been good enough, nor has his contributions on special teams.
It's up to the player to earn reps, not the other way around.
Is that true?
I thought he had a shitty preseason in 2011, being on the verge of being cut.
But because of his ingame performance from preseason 2010 he was kept around.
Then he only got a shot after Hixon blew out his knee week 2 and blew up in game against Philly
Am I mis-remembering?
Not to mention the longer list of scrub WRs who have seen meaningful snaps for Coughlin's Giants because of injuries.
Depth is good. Good depth is very good.
At least Tyree was a Special Teams terror. The others mentioned were all just useless.
Not to mention there's now a little more fuel behind the fire they have to light under Randle to keep him on track in that the guy they brought in can probably hit the ground running and has been productive in a similar system; not a UDFA who had a couple good practices. Although from a long term perspective I would hope it ends up coming from a youngster as well as I don't think Jones wheels will make him a part of the future.
I imaging in light of the JPP situation it's clear that if the season is going to go anywhere the offense needs to come out swinging and give guys like Moore and OO a better chance to make an impact by playing with a lead (something that is kind of a rarity for going on 5 years). This is a decent little piece of insurance that the personnel on the outside is up to task.
Sure you do..His spectacular Jets game in pre-season
Quote:
busted his arse in practice, further demonstrating his grasp of assignments and his professionalism. He got "it", CW's complaints indicate he does not.
We haven't heard much of CW's practice prowess, other than TC indicating his grasp of the route tree and playbook had not been good enough, nor has his contributions on special teams.
It's up to the player to earn reps, not the other way around.
Is that true?
I thought he had a shitty preseason in 2011, being on the verge of being cut.
But because of his ingame performance from preseason 2010 he was kept around.
Then he only got a shot after Hixon blew out his knee week 2 and blew up in game against Philly
Am I mis-remembering?
Cruz was stashed away on IR in 2010 with a hamstring injury when the Giants needed to clear up roster spots...and subsequently could have used Cruz later in the year when Steve Smith got hurt.
And Cruz had a critical drop in the 2011 opener in Washington that cost the Giants a first down and he was benched. The Giants actually brought in Brandon Stokely to take his spot in the slot and he played there for the Rams game. When Hixon tore his ACL on that circus catch in the end zone, that gave Cruz his chance and he made the most of it in Philly in Week 3 and that was that.
Quote:
other than the Jets game, but indications were he was busting his arse across the board. Personality shined, hard work kept him in good graces, etc. Coaches indicated Cruz needed to translate it all to game performance, which he eventually did. Off the top of my head I don't recall his 2010.
Sure you do..His spectacular Jets game in pre-season
I'd forgotten that game was 2010. But, what I'd heard was he was doing all the right things in 2011, just needed to perform in games, which he eventually did as Matt recalls. Some public talk was he had one foot out the door late in 2011 camp, but reality was no one was outplaying Cruz either.
Cruz
Randle
Parker
Harris
Jones
Washington
Davis
Out of those 8 receivers, the Giants have 5 guys they can feel confident with marching out on the field Week 1. The depth allows them time to bring Cruz along slowly, and a period of learning the offense for Harris and the rookie.
And when an injury pops up they won't be left in a bad spot. Green Bay has always been deep at WR, so this is also consistent with what McAdoo has worked with in the past.