Buster Olney & #8207;@Buster_ESPN 3m3 minutes ago
Reds willing to trade Jay Bruce to the Mets for Zack Wheeler now. Worth watching over the next 20 hours.
Ken Rosenthal
Meanwhile, #Mets didnt think Tulo was available, then backed off on Gomez. Also hearing possibility of Bruce, as mentioned by @Buster_ESPN.
the Mets are willing to sell low on Wheeler. Sure he may not come back strong but if he does he is at least a number 2. With how precarious starting pitching is, i'm surprised.
Ken Rosenthal
If #Mets get Bruce - and it is very much an if - Granderson likely would move from RF to CF and Lagares would become late-inning reserve.
Ken Rosenthal
If #Mets get Bruce - and it is very much an if - Granderson likely would move from RF to CF and Lagares would become late-inning reserve.
Thats what Im thinking and I don't hate it. Im betting Granderson doesn't embarrass himself.
Mike Vorkunov @Mike_Vorkunov 1m1 minute ago
Sandy Aderson: "It's very simple. Our doctors felt the health risk was too great. Houston's doctors apparently feel otherwise. That's it."
Not a great fit. Either conforto or granderson will need to play less or move granderson to CF and get weaker defensively. And the last thing we need is another ultra streaky player. Ugh.
is good he still had terrible lefty/righty splits in the minors. Granderson has never been good against left-handers.
If probably go Conforto-Granderson-Bruce against right-handers and Cuddyer-Lagares-Bruce against lefthanders. I think that would add some serious punch to the outfield.
Wheeler as the main part in a Bruce trade is a no brainer.
younger, under control longer, and having the better season. It sucks that he's not a CF but Id actually feel MORE comfortable giving up Wheeler for Bruce than Gomez.
For anyone who thinks the Astros trades proves the Mets are idiots
Look at the final Brewers - Astros trade. And compare it to what the Mets Brewers trade was going to be. I've been screaming for the Mets to work a deal with the Astros for Phillips for weeks now. So I like him a LOT. But, that was an absolutely horrible trade for the Brewers. Especially in comparison to what they were going to get from the Mets. Let the dust settle, this isn't a homerism rant, just reality.
Look at the final Brewers - Astros trade. And compare it to what the Mets Brewers trade was going to be. I've been screaming for the Mets to work a deal with the Astros for Phillips for weeks now. So I like him a LOT. But, that was an absolutely horrible trade for the Brewers. Especially in comparison to what they were going to get from the Mets. Let the dust settle, this isn't a homerism rant, just reality.
Brewers panicked and got hosed.
I'd much prefer to have been the team that got Gomez for what the Astros just did rather than be the team that significantly lowered Gomez' value.
He physically got huge over night and his production spiked through the roof for just two years after a career of mediocrity. Now he has hip issues, ect.and his numbers are WAY down.
Could be totally wrong but he fits the profile to a "T".
Look at the final Brewers - Astros trade. And compare it to what the Mets Brewers trade was going to be. I've been screaming for the Mets to work a deal with the Astros for Phillips for weeks now. So I like him a LOT. But, that was an absolutely horrible trade for the Brewers. Especially in comparison to what they were going to get from the Mets. Let the dust settle, this isn't a homerism rant, just reality.
Brewers panicked and got hosed.
I'd much prefer to have been the team that got Gomez for what the Astros just did rather than be the team that significantly lowered Gomez' value.
I know what Gomez has been.. but isn't it a red flag that he's had hip discomfort AND is batting .260, under 10 SB, Under 10HR?
do you realize what a drop off that is from his past few years? it's not an off year, it's a ridiculous fall off of a cliff.
If they got him, why should we have expected a jump back to normalcy? And if it IS his hip, what's to say he won't need surgery? and what's to say if he DOESN'T get surgery that his production stays where it is right now.
Too many questions before you trade Wheeler for him.
He physically got huge over night and his production spiked through the roof for just two years after a career of mediocrity. Now he has hip issues, ect.and his numbers are WAY down.
Could be totally wrong but he fits the profile to a "T".
maybe, but it points more at injury.
he was always projected to be a productive player, even when he was a string bean. I am sure he'll return to productive player, just depends on when he recoops
A Conforto-Granderson-Bruce outfield packs a lot more punch than a Conforto-Gomez-Granderson one.
The only question is how much defense in CF do we lose and is it justifiable? Having a better arm in RF might help us in that regard. Granderson has shown some pretty nice range this year. IDK. Could work. And we'd still have Lagares to take over in later innings.
I don't understand why we're just taking MIL and Boras at face value
Gomez is a speed player who isn't playing with speed. There's something bothering him that's causing him to not do the things that made him an all star. You even have a quote of him discussing in.
He physically got huge over night and his production spiked through the roof for just two years after a career of mediocrity. Now he has hip issues, ect.and his numbers are WAY down.
Could be totally wrong but he fits the profile to a "T".
maybe, but it points more at injury.
he was always projected to be a productive player, even when he was a string bean. I am sure he'll return to productive player, just depends on when he recoops
Not necessarily. For players who's games are built on speed, 30 is the magic number where these players tend to start declining. See Jose Reyes.
RE: I don't understand why we're just taking MIL and Boras at face value
Gomez is a speed player who isn't playing with speed. There's something bothering him that's causing him to not do the things that made him an all star. You even have a quote of him discussing in.
TTH, I agree with you.
Power and speed come from your legs and hips. Maybe it isn't his hips.. maybe it's a leg, a knee, a foot. Either way, something is up.
Like I said, it's not an off year. He's not "off".. he fell off a cliff.
RE: RE: RE: For anyone who thinks the Astros trades proves the Mets are idiots
Look at the final Brewers - Astros trade. And compare it to what the Mets Brewers trade was going to be. I've been screaming for the Mets to work a deal with the Astros for Phillips for weeks now. So I like him a LOT. But, that was an absolutely horrible trade for the Brewers. Especially in comparison to what they were going to get from the Mets. Let the dust settle, this isn't a homerism rant, just reality.
Brewers panicked and got hosed.
I'd much prefer to have been the team that got Gomez for what the Astros just did rather than be the team that significantly lowered Gomez' value.
I know what Gomez has been.. but isn't it a red flag that he's had hip discomfort AND is batting .260, under 10 SB, Under 10HR?
do you realize what a drop off that is from his past few years? it's not an off year, it's a ridiculous fall off of a cliff.
If they got him, why should we have expected a jump back to normalcy? And if it IS his hip, what's to say he won't need surgery? and what's to say if he DOESN'T get surgery that his production stays where it is right now.
Too many questions before you trade Wheeler for him.
A ridiculous fall of of a cliff? His BA is the 3rd highest of his career. OBP is also the 3rd highest. The only stat that he is way down on is stolen bases.
Gomez is a speed player who isn't playing with speed. There's something bothering him that's causing him to not do the things that made him an all star. You even have a quote of him discussing in.
Yup. Every post or comment Ive ever read about Gomez is he's a huge stolen base threat, 20 Homerun power, and gold glove CF. Thats literally where all his value lied. He is none of those things this year.
He physically got huge over night and his production spiked through the roof for just two years after a career of mediocrity. Now he has hip issues, ect.and his numbers are WAY down.
Could be totally wrong but he fits the profile to a "T".
maybe, but it points more at injury.
he was always projected to be a productive player, even when he was a string bean. I am sure he'll return to productive player, just depends on when he recoops
Not necessarily. For players who's games are built on speed, 30 is the magic number where these players tend to start declining. See Jose Reyes.
Look at the final Brewers - Astros trade. And compare it to what the Mets Brewers trade was going to be. I've been screaming for the Mets to work a deal with the Astros for Phillips for weeks now. So I like him a LOT. But, that was an absolutely horrible trade for the Brewers. Especially in comparison to what they were going to get from the Mets. Let the dust settle, this isn't a homerism rant, just reality.
Brewers panicked and got hosed.
I'd much prefer to have been the team that got Gomez for what the Astros just did rather than be the team that significantly lowered Gomez' value.
I know what Gomez has been.. but isn't it a red flag that he's had hip discomfort AND is batting .260, under 10 SB, Under 10HR?
do you realize what a drop off that is from his past few years? it's not an off year, it's a ridiculous fall off of a cliff.
If they got him, why should we have expected a jump back to normalcy? And if it IS his hip, what's to say he won't need surgery? and what's to say if he DOESN'T get surgery that his production stays where it is right now.
Too many questions before you trade Wheeler for him.
A ridiculous fall of of a cliff? His BA is the 3rd highest of his career. OBP is also the 3rd highest. The only stat that he is way down on is stolen bases.
Just because they are career high's doesn't mean they are good. A .260 hitter with 8 HR and no speed is not that intriguing sorry. Like I said, Kelly Johnson and Juan Uribe are each better offensively this year.
is good he still had terrible lefty/righty splits in the minors. Granderson has never been good against left-handers.
If probably go Conforto-Granderson-Bruce against right-handers and Cuddyer-Lagares-Bruce against lefthanders. I think that would add some serious punch to the outfield.
It actually works out well because Cuddyer probably can't play more than a few games a week anyway.
Look at the final Brewers - Astros trade. And compare it to what the Mets Brewers trade was going to be. I've been screaming for the Mets to work a deal with the Astros for Phillips for weeks now. So I like him a LOT. But, that was an absolutely horrible trade for the Brewers. Especially in comparison to what they were going to get from the Mets. Let the dust settle, this isn't a homerism rant, just reality.
Brewers panicked and got hosed.
I'd much prefer to have been the team that got Gomez for what the Astros just did rather than be the team that significantly lowered Gomez' value.
I know what Gomez has been.. but isn't it a red flag that he's had hip discomfort AND is batting .260, under 10 SB, Under 10HR?
do you realize what a drop off that is from his past few years? it's not an off year, it's a ridiculous fall off of a cliff.
If they got him, why should we have expected a jump back to normalcy? And if it IS his hip, what's to say he won't need surgery? and what's to say if he DOESN'T get surgery that his production stays where it is right now.
Too many questions before you trade Wheeler for him.
A ridiculous fall of of a cliff? His BA is the 3rd highest of his career. OBP is also the 3rd highest. The only stat that he is way down on is stolen bases.
SB 37>40>34 now SEVEN
HR 19>24>23 now EIGHT
that's power and speed.
if he was a .320 hitter, then your BA stat would be relevant. .262 BA really isn't a stat to hang his hat on.
is good he still had terrible lefty/righty splits in the minors. Granderson has never been good against left-handers.
If probably go Conforto-Granderson-Bruce against right-handers and Cuddyer-Lagares-Bruce against lefthanders. I think that would add some serious punch to the outfield.
It actually works out well because Cuddyer probably can't play more than a few games a week anyway.
Yup and you can still use Cuddyer off the bench mostly or to give Duda a day off. Its growing on me big time. Bruce would still be a very nice addition.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: For anyone who thinks the Astros trades proves the Mets are idiots
Look at the final Brewers - Astros trade. And compare it to what the Mets Brewers trade was going to be. I've been screaming for the Mets to work a deal with the Astros for Phillips for weeks now. So I like him a LOT. But, that was an absolutely horrible trade for the Brewers. Especially in comparison to what they were going to get from the Mets. Let the dust settle, this isn't a homerism rant, just reality.
Brewers panicked and got hosed.
I'd much prefer to have been the team that got Gomez for what the Astros just did rather than be the team that significantly lowered Gomez' value.
I know what Gomez has been.. but isn't it a red flag that he's had hip discomfort AND is batting .260, under 10 SB, Under 10HR?
do you realize what a drop off that is from his past few years? it's not an off year, it's a ridiculous fall off of a cliff.
If they got him, why should we have expected a jump back to normalcy? And if it IS his hip, what's to say he won't need surgery? and what's to say if he DOESN'T get surgery that his production stays where it is right now.
Too many questions before you trade Wheeler for him.
A ridiculous fall of of a cliff? His BA is the 3rd highest of his career. OBP is also the 3rd highest. The only stat that he is way down on is stolen bases.
SB 37>40>34 now SEVEN
HR 19>24>23 now EIGHT
that's power and speed.
if he was a .320 hitter, then your BA stat would be relevant. .262 BA really isn't a stat to hang his hat on.
Yes the stolen bases are way down but when you look at homeruns you have to look at the number of games he played in which is literally half or the previous season so of course he is going to have less homers.
He said his numbers are way off and they clearly are not that was the point of my post.
Its cool man but I tend to agree with him. Gomez is a power/speed guy and both of those most crucial numbers are down. Hitting .260 without pop doesn't mean a whole lot.
He said his numbers are way off and they clearly are not that was the point of my post.
the numbers that refer to a lower body injury are way off.
if you don't agree that his power and speed numbers are way off, that's fine. but if you do think they are, there is a direct correlation between speed/power and lower body.
He said his numbers are way off and they clearly are not that was the point of my post.
Its cool man but I tend to agree with him. Gomez is a power/speed guy and both of those most crucial numbers are down. Hitting .260 without pop doesn't mean a whole lot.
Yeah I wasn't arguing to suggest they should have made the trade I was just pointing out a very incorrect statement that all of his numbers were dramatically down.
Look at the final Brewers - Astros trade. And compare it to what the Mets Brewers trade was going to be. I've been screaming for the Mets to work a deal with the Astros for Phillips for weeks now. So I like him a LOT. But, that was an absolutely horrible trade for the Brewers. Especially in comparison to what they were going to get from the Mets. Let the dust settle, this isn't a homerism rant, just reality.
Brewers panicked and got hosed.
I'd much prefer to have been the team that got Gomez for what the Astros just did rather than be the team that significantly lowered Gomez' value.
I know what Gomez has been.. but isn't it a red flag that he's had hip discomfort AND is batting .260, under 10 SB, Under 10HR?
do you realize what a drop off that is from his past few years? it's not an off year, it's a ridiculous fall off of a cliff.
If they got him, why should we have expected a jump back to normalcy? And if it IS his hip, what's to say he won't need surgery? and what's to say if he DOESN'T get surgery that his production stays where it is right now.
Too many questions before you trade Wheeler for him.
A ridiculous fall of of a cliff? His BA is the 3rd highest of his career. OBP is also the 3rd highest. The only stat that he is way down on is stolen bases.
SB 37>40>34 now SEVEN
HR 19>24>23 now EIGHT
that's power and speed.
if he was a .320 hitter, then your BA stat would be relevant. .262 BA really isn't a stat to hang his hat on.
Yes the stolen bases are way down but when you look at homeruns you have to look at the number of games he played in which is literally half or the previous season so of course he is going to have less homers.
Still down though. At best your saying he'll hit 15-16 HR then. He hit 24 last year. He's actually on pace to hit 12 playing the "majority" of the season. He only missed two weeks.
He said his numbers are way off and they clearly are not that was the point of my post.
Its cool man but I tend to agree with him. Gomez is a power/speed guy and both of those most crucial numbers are down. Hitting .260 without pop doesn't mean a whole lot.
Yeah I wasn't arguing to suggest they should have made the trade I was just pointing out a very incorrect statement that all of his numbers were dramatically down.
He said his numbers are way off and they clearly are not that was the point of my post.
the numbers that refer to a lower body injury are way off.
if you don't agree that his power and speed numbers are way off, that's fine. but if you do think they are, there is a direct correlation between speed/power and lower body.
I agreed that his speed numbers were way off but his power numbers weren't when you look at the number of at bats. He has 8 homers in 314 at bats. Last year he had 23 in 644 at bats so of course he is going to have a lot less when he has literally less than half the number of at bats than last season.
Gomez has 8 homers in 74 games. If you project that over a full season that is 18 homers. If you project it to what he played the previous two seasons it would be 16 homers.
Gomez has 8 homers in 74 games. If you project that over a full season that is 18 homers. If you project it to what he played the previous two seasons it would be 16 homers.
Come on dude. Seriously? Don't you start too. Im going off of abats. He hit 24 homeruns in 644 atbats last year. He's hit 8 homeruns in 314 abats this year or roughly half. He's well off his mark from last season.
he's somebody else's headache. If he magically turns into MVP Gomez over the next two months and next year Ill obviously regret it but too early to tell now.
Andy Martino
Think about Wheeler this way: Pitches in July 2016. Big-time innings limit 2017. So you're waiting until 2018 for 200 innings.
that's fine, but no matter what way you cut it he's their #5 starter.
they don't need him to be a savior.
IF they don't trade Wheeler, I'm fine with that. They can't have enough pitchers. Hopefully the days of Gee/Figeroa and company are gone. (Even though I bitched about Dickey being on the staff, woops lol)
I really don't. Your getting a gold glove caliber player in RF with a golden arm which would dramatically upgrade that position. Granderson arm in CF would be better than Lagares's currently and Granderson is showing pretty good range this year. Against lefties I would still go Cuddyer-Lagares- Bruce. Against righties Conforto-Granderson-Bruce. Sure we lose some defense in CF but you upgrade defense in RF also.
If we were able to land Parra or Gomez shutting down Lagares was a no brainer imo. It appears we aren't landing a CF. If we are able to sign a COF Lagares has to play regularly. Bruce and Granderson get the lions share of AB's and you either send Conforto down or he sits.
Conforto is the future he isn't the now. You don't acquire a Bruce to platoon or sit Grandy who is our best hitter. The rookie takes a back seat. It's not ideal but that's how it has to be. I'd return Conforto to the minor to play everyday. He'll be back in a month anyway.
anymore anyway. Kirk has started like 4 of the last 5 games. Lagares will play against left-handed pitchers and come in for late inning defense. Most reports swirling around suggest Granderson would get some time in CF, even if its in some sort of a rotation.
I like Bruce a lot and he has a cannon arm but I don't think he's quite that good in the field.
He's been a gold glove finalist in the past and he has a gun for an arm. Link - ( New Window )
I don't get to see a ton of Reds games.. I've seen him make nice plays but the metrics don't seem to really reflect that. I can't stand defensive metrics, though. So.. there's that.
has a bazooka. Would be a welcomed sight after watching Granderson's arm. I really don't think the OF would take a major hit defensively. Lagares isn't playing full time anymore anyway. Granderson has logged a TON of innings in CF.
I don't see the big appeal of Bruce, he's basically a .250 hitter who's power numbers are inflated for playing in Cincinnati. IMO Wheeler would be giving up too much for him.
making the postseason, with Collins as manager, no matter what trade they make.
They just don't have the horses this season. Their bullpen is falling apart now.
Hopefully next season will be the real deal.
Wouldn't get crazy about the bullpen just yet.
Familia wasn't going to continue having a Mariano-type season. He has to work through this. Clippard will settle in, and there are arms in there pitching well.
Granderson hasn't played CF in years and wasn't all that great htere
To be clear I wasn't knocking him. I just meant his defense is mostly based on his arm. His range was better in his youth. He's more than fine out there. Granderson every day in CF is going to be another story.
Granderson can't play CF anymore. He doesn't have the range.
Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 9m9 minutes ago
1 reason #Mets are willing to include Wheeler in trade talks is emergence of a healthy Michael Fulmer. Scouts who have seen say Fulmer
Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 9m9 minutes ago
Is 96-97 mph, wipeout slider, still developing change. Works both sides of plate. Throws inside. High praise from many #Mets
for Bruce, but i wouldnt want to give up anymore then wheeler. I mean that seems like a pretty fair trade. Does CIN have any bullpen pieces other then Chapman we might be able to get wiith Bruce?
Andy Martino
Gap to bridge between #mets #reds last night involved whether Wheeler enough. "Should b interesting" said 1 official of today. Still talking
cause some log jam issues, but the Mets must find the prices on rentals like Upton/Cespedes too much. If they are going to give up a wheeler its got to be for a guy that you at least can get a season+ out of.
Bruce makes the Mets a better team right now and it's not even debatable. We aren't getting Wheeler's best until 2017 and the emergence of Fulmer is playing a large role in this.
We tried for the CF (Gomez, Parra) and SS (Tulo) and failed to get a deal done. This is the best we're going to do now. It'd still be a good get.
that Bruce will be better than Conforto in 2016? If we make this trade, we'll need to send Conforto to the minors until 2017 to get him everyday ABs.
I think Bruce is a 2015 upgrade and maybe with his reasonable contract we can move him and recoup part of the Wheeler cost to acquire him if Conforto is raking so bad we can't keep him in the minors anymore.
wondering how we didn't get a deal for Tulo done. The return Toronto gave CO wasn't that big. Tulo would've made us contenders immediately. Sandy was clearly interested and even admitted to talking to the Rockies about him. I wonder if the Wilpons money issues were the main impediment.
Why do we have to keep Conforto in the minors in 2017? There are other options. We could deal Granderson this winter or give him a few games here and there in CF for now.
Even if Conforto goes back down now, he'll be Sept. call up anyway.
On one hand, he's pure middle of the order lefty power, 28 years old, team option for 2017, 100-rbipotential (97, 99, 109 in '11-'12-'13. He'd look pretty good in a 3-4-5 lineup of Duda-Wright-Bruce (L-R-L) to me.
On the other hand, in a good year he'll get to 150Ks and not be a high average hitter.
I think I'm just being a picky B-R.com reader. In the current environment for baseball, a power bat like this is a pretty rare commodity to have available.
Question - Wheeler for Bruce or Nimmo + Fulmer for Upton?
I prefer Upton to Bruce since he's a power hitter, but I don't think we can spend the money to resign him. After yesterday's display I'm pretty convinced out of everybody that was out there Upton is the best pure RH hitter and that's what we need.
But obviously it's 99% likely he'd be a pure rental vs. 3 years of Bruce. I think Bruce is a damn good player, just think he and Duda are really really similar in both good ways and bad ones.
Bruce strikes out.. a lot of power hitters do. The high average power hitters who don't K are the elite, cream of the crop players.
And essentially "doubling" what Granderson is giving us right now is a good thing, not a bad thing. Bruce is quite a bit younger than Granderson and is a bit better overall anyway.
this lienup could really use another Granderson. He has been pretty solid this year.
My only issue would be fitting in Conforto, Bruce, and Granderson next year without playing Curtils 100+ games in center. But hey we want to go for it now and im sure we could always look to move Bruce in the winter if we were that worried bout it.
Why do we have to keep Conforto in the minors in 2017? There are other options. We could deal Granderson this winter or give him a few games here and there in CF for now.
Even if Conforto goes back down now, he'll be Sept. call up anyway.
I don't think using Conforto as a 4th OF really makes sense at this stage in his career. This is a kid who we think is going to rake, and sooner rather than later. I want him getting max ABs. Sept. callup is fine, and I think in 2015, sending Conforto back to AA is fine, I guess I just don't see how it works for us in 2015.
Trading Granderson (and maybe selling high based on the increasingly good year he's having) might be possible but he's been our best lineup regular this year and the return would be minimal given his contract and age.
Yes - a 2nd Granderson (slightly better version) is a HUGE upgrade
Only problem with Granderson is his age and potential for regression, if he plays like this again next year his contract he is an asset.
The Gomez fiasco was enormously deflating to this organization in combination with the blown saves & 2 losses to Pads. Not impossible to come back from, but they need to win 2/3 this weekend in the worst way. Losing more ground to the Nats and taking the gut punches they've taken the last 48 hours might be the straw that breaks the camels back.
I'm over worrying about Conforto. He's fine to go back to the minors in 2015, and Bruce would likely be moveable next year if we were really that worried about things.
Chris Cotillo @ChrisCotillo 2m2 minutes ago
Source: Astros have some interest in Rays' relievers Boxberger, McGee and Jepsen, though nothing serious at this time.
Wonder if the Mets have any interest in the Rays RP. Doubt they would be cheap though.
Joe Giglio
@JoeGiglioSports
Since 2008, only 4 OF in MLB have more HR than Jay Bruce. If the Mets land him for a SP coming off Tommy John, it's a no-brainer
Bruce makes the Mets a better team right now and it's not even debatable. We aren't getting Wheeler's best until 2017 and the emergence of Fulmer is playing a large role in this.
We tried for the CF (Gomez, Parra) and SS (Tulo) and failed to get a deal done. This is the best we're going to do now. It'd still be a good get.
The point really shouldn't be does he make them a little better or not. The point should be if you are going to trade a guy like Wheeler is this who you use him for? IMO Bruce is not worth trading a top trading piece for. Save trading Wheeler for something better. After all this time waiting to build the team right around this young staff don't make panic trades at this point and settle for average return for your top prospects.
I always feel like adding talent is paramount. Let the position stuff sort out on its own. I think people get too worried about who slots in where. If we're too overcrowded, we can move someone this winter. Assets are assets.
Joe Giglio
@JoeGiglioSports
Since 2008, only 4 OF in MLB have more HR than Jay Bruce. If the Mets land him for a SP coming off Tommy John, it's a no-brainer
2015 GAB and Citifield have had very similar HR rates.
Bruce makes the Mets a better team right now and it's not even debatable. We aren't getting Wheeler's best until 2017 and the emergence of Fulmer is playing a large role in this.
We tried for the CF (Gomez, Parra) and SS (Tulo) and failed to get a deal done. This is the best we're going to do now. It'd still be a good get.
The point really shouldn't be does he make them a little better or not. The point should be if you are going to trade a guy like Wheeler is this who you use him for? IMO Bruce is not worth trading a top trading piece for. Save trading Wheeler for something better. After all this time waiting to build the team right around this young staff don't make panic trades at this point and settle for average return for your top prospects.
This isn't a panic trade. We need offense and Bruce is signed through 2017. Wheeler is unlikely to even provide much until then.
Who do you suggest dealing Wheeler for? We're not getting a better player than Bruce if Wheeler is the main piece.
The emergence of Fulmer is likely the reason for the org viewing Wheeler as more expendable now. We still have a lot of pitching.
"Medical due dilligence" is now going to be a Mets thing forever
MLB Trade Rumors @mlbtraderumors 36s36 seconds ago
#Mets & #Reds are "pretty far along" on Jay Bruce deal, doing "due diligence on medicals" per @AdamRubinESPN. Latest: http://bit.ly/1MXsCAN
Are going to be pissed, when they give up some of your favorites just so the Reds pay some of the contract. They're the big market team and are likely begging the small market team for money.
Clear upgrade, not old, great contract. I do reserve the right to change my view if the "other pieces" are something really bad but on it's face Wheeler and Bruce? No-brainer for me.
These past few days have been pretty fucking awful in the sports sense...
Must say I'm really worried about this trade. Looks like it'll happen which is great I guess, but I think the second piece will be significant and it'll be tied to getting money back. It won't change the larger narrative. I hope he helps but we will lose something with brandy in center.
for a little money back. Not sure why its such a big deal. Was just watching somebody on MLB the other night and they said ALL GMs ask for some money back. The worst they can say is no.
Clear upgrade, not old, great contract. I do reserve the right to change my view if the "other pieces" are something really bad but on it's face Wheeler and Bruce? No-brainer for me.
What if its Nimmo? Think I d be a little bummed. Im sure you'll be fine though. ;)
If the Mets are willing to pay the remainder of Bruce's deal (and pick up his option in 2017), the 2nd piece really should not be major at all.
This is where the Mets can prove that the "flexibility" is either there or isn't. If they force CIN to eat money and give up more for it, there's really no denying anymore than finances are still handicapping this franchise pretty badly.
What if we have to to get money back at the cost of another good piece? How can that not be really disappointing?
From what I understand a little money isn't changing the prospects all that much. Most GMs identify players they like in a trade. If they stings a little, the other team will often ask for a little money to offset it. Now if the Reds are taking on a HUGE amount of money? Thats totally different. But a million or two isn't changing the prospect package all that much IMO.
I'm talking about the size of the second piece for money. I think we'll know when we see the deal. But man it'd be nice to just step up on the money give up as little as possible.
for Bruce seems reasonable. If we give up a major second piece and we also receive significant cash in return, Mets' fans will have a right to be furious at the Wilpons.
Here's an interesting thought I just had that stemmed from the Bruce vs. Grandy talk. Offensively I think we'd all agree that offensively Granderson has been better than Gomez this season. But what about defensively? If Gomez isn't running full speed due to injury (likely given SB #'s) what do their numbers look like?
I'm not a huge fan of any overall defensive metrics, but I did think the catch distribution from Inside Edge might be relevant here:
Obviously sample size is an issue, but the biggest take away for me is that neither player has made any plays that far out of their zone this season whereas both made several in 2014. In 2014 Granderson made 3 "unlikely" plays and 4 "even" plays. Gomez made 2 "remote" plays and 1 "even" play.
Also this year Jay Bruce has made more unlikely (1) and even plays (3) than both. Though obviously Gomez has logged the majority of his plays in a tougher position. With Lagares on the bench as a late game sub I really think Granderson to CF is a viable option.
to compare defensive metrics at RF and centerfield.
But I think Bruce will be an upgrade over Conforto the rest of the season and hopefully next year the Mets can trade Granderson and go with Bruce and Conforto in the corners along with a surgeried Lagares.
for Bruce seems reasonable. If we give up a major second piece and we also receive significant cash in return, Mets' fans will have a right to be furious at the Wilpons.
If it was straight up they wouldn't have had to be working late on it. They're working on money for extra prospects.
Here's an interesting thought I just had that stemmed from the Bruce vs. Grandy talk. Offensively I think we'd all agree that offensively Granderson has been better than Gomez this season. But what about defensively? If Gomez isn't running full speed due to injury (likely given SB #'s) what do their numbers look like?
I'm not a huge fan of any overall defensive metrics, but I did think the catch distribution from Inside Edge might be relevant here:
.
Can't speak for Gomez but those stats aren't correct for Grandy as I've seen at least five ball he let drop which should be considered likely for him and routine for others.
I'm open to seeing Grandy tested out in CF w/ Conforto up for 1 week
I genuinely believe he will get better reads there (his biggest deficiency in RF IMO) and his arm at this point is same as Lagares (his 2nd biggest deficiency in RF).
If Conforto is hitting great, then you have a quandry, but likely a good one. If not and balls are falling in often, you put Lagares back in a little more rested and send the kid down.
about it but Conforto is going to have to start hitting. And soon. If he's not ready yet, all this OF alignment talk has been for nothing.
Agreed, and its the elephant in the room right now. He still has a great approach and works the count. You can tell he will be a good hitter, but it just might not be this year. Interested to see how long of a leash he has. A lot has to do with what happens today at the deadline and Cuddy coming back.
at least those that I've seen that are available to fans. I'm sure teams are far more advanced at this point. The main takeaway for me there was on the difficult chances thing. Historically Gomez has made several remote & unlikely catches, this year he isn't the same way he isn't stealing bases.
RE: I'm open to seeing Grandy tested out in CF w/ Conforto up for 1 week
In comment 12395632 Eric on Li said:
[quote] I genuinely believe he will get better reads there (his biggest deficiency in RF IMO) and his arm at this point is same as Lagares (his 2nd biggest deficiency in RF).
/quote]
for Bruce seems reasonable. If we give up a major second piece and we also receive significant cash in return, Mets' fans will have a right to be furious at the Wilpons.
If it was straight up they wouldn't have had to be working late on it. They're working on money for extra prospects.
I can't see how Wheeler alone gets Bruce.
RE: I'm open to seeing Grandy tested out in CF w/ Conforto up for 1 week
I genuinely believe he will get better reads there (his biggest deficiency in RF IMO) and his arm at this point is same as Lagares (his 2nd biggest deficiency in RF).
If Conforto is hitting great, then you have a quandry, but likely a good one. If not and balls are falling in often, you put Lagares back in a little more rested and send the kid down.
I'm with you, I'd try it. I don't think this is anywhere near as "experimental" or weird as putting Murphy or Duda in LF. Granderson has logged thousands of MLB innings in CF.
No, it's not ideal and there's going to be a clear dropoff from Lagares but if he's not "butcher" bad, it could be worth it.
If it doesn't work out, send Conforto back for a few weeks and bring him back up in Sept. We can sort out 2016 this winter.
if Conforto can catch fire it would change things. Ive said it many times but I like a Conforto-Granderson-Bruce allignment against righthanders and a Cuddyer-Lagares-Bruce OF against lefthanders. Think that would be solid and you'd still have Lagares to come in late in a game.
Dont see the harm in trying it. Granderson didn't embarrass himself in CF last year the few times he was there. If its really bad, you go back to Lagares/Kirk.
first they have O'Dowd telling them.. "the Mets asking for money is not a big deal. I ALWAYS asked for money, and every other GM asked for money from me.. it creates flexibility"
the same idiots are making a big deal today about the Mets asking for money as a reason why the Gomez deal didn't go on.
I would LOVE for this Bruce deal to go down to watch them speechless.
Bruce has such a terrible 2014. Negative WAR, .217 avg., only 18 HR. He's been solid this year, but that's a scary season. I wouldn't offer Wheeler plus for him.
RE: 2012 - I tend to agree, free defensive stats seem to be very dodgy
at least those that I've seen that are available to fans. I'm sure teams are far more advanced at this point. The main takeaway for me there was on the difficult chances thing. Historically Gomez has made several remote & unlikely catches, this year he isn't the same way he isn't stealing bases.
I see. IMO, Gomez is damaged goods.
I'm not really excited for any of these players as i think the Mets need a bonafide #3 hitter and everybody they've looked at isn't that. I'd be happier with a Bruce than Gomez b/c he adds some pop yet no way I'm offering more than Wheels and low level prospect.
Personally, i prefer Wheels in a package for a better player than any of these guys the media has shown interest in (Tulo was too costly and risky IMO and Gomez has something wrong with his leg i think). I like Bruce more than the others but for a ransom and i think Wheels is pretty close to a ransom for a .250 hitter with pop.
Bruce has such a terrible 2014. Negative WAR, .217 avg., only 18 HR. He's been solid this year, but that's a scary season. I wouldn't offer Wheeler plus for him.
pssht.. it just means they missed the boat to get him on the cheap last year ;)
Bruce's 2014 was a pretty clear outlier. You don't even have to dig too deep to play "which one of these things doesn't belong" and see that it was 2014.
Grandy's defensive WAR in centerfield from baseball reference weas -0.3 in 2011, -0.7 in 2012, and 0.2 in 2013, do you think he has fallen off that much speed wise from 2012-2013 to 2015?
Bruce has such a terrible 2014. Negative WAR, .217 avg., only 18 HR. He's been solid this year, but that's a scary season. I wouldn't offer Wheeler plus for him.
Yes he's had one awful year in the last five. It happens. Bruce is very streaky so we need to be aware of it but he's having a great "typical Bruce" season in 2015.
Grandy's defensive WAR in centerfield from baseball reference weas -0.3 in 2011, -0.7 in 2012, and 0.2 in 2013, do you think he has fallen off that much speed wise from 2012-2013 to 2015?
Nope. He'll still be 34 at the start of the 2016 season. He's really not THAT old.
wants to see conforto, i think u need to send him down. He got his cup of coffee. Granderson, lagares/kirk, bruce. Playing granderson in CF negates his value.
Granderson isn't going to be around much longer. Conforto was brought up in a hurry. He's not obligated to be at the big club this early and it's not like he's too hot to take out of the lineup. By september he'll be a bench player anyway.
Michael Baron retweeted
Steve Gelbs @SteveGelbs 1m1 minute ago
RE: Bruce - Overall numbers may not jump off page. Got off to brutal start tho. Since 5/22 (59 GP): .295 BA, .916 OPS, 10 HR, 40 RBI. #Mets
Buster Olney retweeted
Brittany Ghiroli
Brittany Ghiroli retweeted Ken Rosenthal
Interesting- would indicate Brewers price changed. Was thought to be not enough yesterday. Brittany Ghiroli added,
Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal
Source: #Orioles closing in on #Brewers Parra. Deal expected to be Parra for RHP Zack Davies, straight up.
on Parra, disagree on Gomez. They got back a very nice return. Hader a lefty that touches 96 (136 k's in 123 innings this season, Phillips a potential starting OF, Domingo Santana the ultimate lottery ticket having a beast season (PCL inflated of course).
I'd be happy with a 1:1 trade or Wheeler plus a B prospect. Hopefully, the Coupons don't ask for cash in exchange for upping the talent we send. I hope that Wilmer is not part of this.
Bruce v. Gomez, I like Bruce. More predictable production and we have him under control longer.
Buster Olney
Bruce makes $12m '15, $12.5m '16, $13m option/buyout '17. Or more than Carlos Gomez will earn. Mets could kill conspiracy theories w/ a deal
Buster Olney
Bruce makes $12m '15, $12.5m '16, $13m option/buyout '17. Or more than Carlos Gomez will earn. Mets could kill conspiracy theories w/ a deal
Unless of course the Mets force the Reds to eat the difference.
I admit I woke up today pretty numb to what may happen today
I won't get worked up unless a deal is announced and confirmed. Especially if Wheeler is the main piece. Waiting on another medical review with clenched sphincter isn't my idea of a fun afternoon.
phillips could arguably be #2 on the mets behind conforto, he's that good and that's who Brewers got along with 3 others for Gomez, Fiers, and cash. He's the #1 prospect on the Astros.
Buster Olney
Bruce makes $12m '15, $12.5m '16, $13m option/buyout '17. Or more than Carlos Gomez will earn. Mets could kill conspiracy theories w/ a deal
Unless of course the Mets force the Reds to eat the difference.
I don't see it like that. I see it as, next year when they lose Murphy/Colon/Parnell/Gee, they will replace them with inexpensive rookies.
There's a way for them to add Bruce and have a LOWER payroll next year.
may land in Toronto. If Granderson is really going to play CF how about Dickey and Pillar for Niese? Metrics love Pillar in CF and he has 15 steals, maybe a good option for late in the game for both Granderson and Conforto?
may land in Toronto. If Granderson is really going to play CF how about Dickey and Pillar for Niese? Metrics love Pillar in CF and he has 15 steals, maybe a good option for late in the game for both Granderson and Conforto?
Really, the Mets are going to eat more money?? I would do that in a heartbeat. Can't have enough CF who can play defense.
may land in Toronto. If Granderson is really going to play CF how about Dickey and Pillar for Niese? Metrics love Pillar in CF and he has 15 steals, maybe a good option for late in the game for both Granderson and Conforto?
Really, the Mets are going to eat more money?? I would do that in a heartbeat. Can't have enough CF who can play defense.
I take that back, Dickey is a FA after this year. Salary dump-ish for the jays
RE: Lets wrap this up so Bruce can make the game tonight!
may land in Toronto. If Granderson is really going to play CF how about Dickey and Pillar for Niese? Metrics love Pillar in CF and he has 15 steals, maybe a good option for late in the game for both Granderson and Conforto?
Really, the Mets are going to eat more money?? I would do that in a heartbeat. Can't have enough CF who can play defense.
More money? Niese is owed more than Dickey. FA after the year = clears 9 million
But Niese is much better than Dickey and Granderson is MUCH better than Pillar. Id hate that deal.
Pillar has been worth 2.1 WAR, is GREAT in CF (which is why you would be adding him, late innings for Granderson/Conforto) and has 15 steals. What does Granderson have to do with Pillar? The Mets would clear 9 million for next season as well.
I was going to start a new thread but I think the Mets fan audience in here would have some great answers. Especially some of you that are plugged into the team. I read on Cerrone's blog:
"MLB is planning a meeting between Mets and Brewers management to discuss the relationship between the two teams and what happened Thursday night in their reported deal for Carlos Gomez, according to a tweet from MetsBlogs Matthew Cerrone (July 31, 10:45 am)."
I am really uncomfortable with Sandy Alderson and the Mets current relationship with other GMs. I know Boras can be difficult to deal with but it doesn't bode well for the Mets if the top agent in the league does not like how you operate. Furthermore, Is there a consequence for Sandys actions? Will other teams front office be hesitant to deal with Sandy and the Mets? The Mets backing out and now the rumors of it being financial is concerning to me. I thought I read that Tulowitzki would have refused a trade to the Mets. Why? (I know the Yankees are on Bruces list). Its a New York team. I get the feeling that this Bruce trade does not happen and if the Reds are asking too much, I am fine with that. I am wondering if the Mets and Sandy have now ostracized themselves from the league when it comes to effective trade talks. (Although, I believe Billy Beane had some kind words for his former colleague).
Between Kirk N and Lagares, they have plenty of CF defense
is having a little bit better season than I thought but he would still be a pretty big downgrade from Granderson. Id just as soon hope Lagares heals up by next year if we want a glove first CF.
I was going to start a new thread but I think the Mets fan audience in here would have some great answers. Especially some of you that are plugged into the team. I read on Cerrone's blog:
"MLB is planning a meeting between Mets and Brewers management to discuss the relationship between the two teams and what happened Thursday night in their reported deal for Carlos Gomez, according to a tweet from MetsBlogs Matthew Cerrone (July 31, 10:45 am)."
I am really uncomfortable with Sandy Alderson and the Mets current relationship with other GMs. I know Boras can be difficult to deal with but it doesn't bode well for the Mets if the top agent in the league does not like how you operate. Furthermore, Is there a consequence for Sandys actions? Will other teams front office be hesitant to deal with Sandy and the Mets? The Mets backing out and now the rumors of it being financial is concerning to me. I thought I read that Tulowitzki would have refused a trade to the Mets. Why? (I know the Yankees are on Bruces list). Its a New York team. I get the feeling that this Bruce trade does not happen and if the Reds are asking too much, I am fine with that. I am wondering if the Mets and Sandy have now ostracized themselves from the league when it comes to effective trade talks. (Although, I believe Billy Beane had some kind words for his former colleague).
I wouldnt treat it as a huge deal, Sandy's made plenty of trades with many teams over the years including transactions this season involving kirk, uribe/johnson, blevins, Clippard, and Alex Torres
I was going to start a new thread but I think the Mets fan audience in here would have some great answers. Especially some of you that are plugged into the team. I read on Cerrone's blog:
"MLB is planning a meeting between Mets and Brewers management to discuss the relationship between the two teams and what happened Thursday night in their reported deal for Carlos Gomez, according to a tweet from MetsBlogs Matthew Cerrone (July 31, 10:45 am)."
I am really uncomfortable with Sandy Alderson and the Mets current relationship with other GMs. I know Boras can be difficult to deal with but it doesn't bode well for the Mets if the top agent in the league does not like how you operate. Furthermore, Is there a consequence for Sandys actions? Will other teams front office be hesitant to deal with Sandy and the Mets? The Mets backing out and now the rumors of it being financial is concerning to me. I thought I read that Tulowitzki would have refused a trade to the Mets. Why? (I know the Yankees are on Bruces list). Its a New York team. I get the feeling that this Bruce trade does not happen and if the Reds are asking too much, I am fine with that. I am wondering if the Mets and Sandy have now ostracized themselves from the league when it comes to effective trade talks. (Although, I believe Billy Beane had some kind words for his former colleague).
You are assuming wrongdoing here though. Deciding not to greenlight a trade because of medical concerns is a legitimate reason, and Boras trying to stand up for his client is totally fine too. It's in Boras' best interest to deny anything is wrong with Gomez.
This can't be financial. Gomez is on a value contract, and the Mets are now looking heavily at /near a deal for a MORE expensive player.
But Niese is much better than Dickey and Granderson is MUCH better than Pillar. Id hate that deal.
Pillar has been worth 2.1 WAR, is GREAT in CF (which is why you would be adding him, late innings for Granderson/Conforto) and has 15 steals. What does Granderson have to do with Pillar? The Mets would clear 9 million for next season as well.
Your trading away arguably our top offensive weapon for a glove guy? I think they would have a lot to do with each other. Especially sine they'd be taking each other's spot in the OF. Regardless of the money freed up it makes us a worst team today and for this playoff run. I know its just a suggestion, but Im not a fan. All good.
does Lagares or Granderson have to do with it? For the 2015 Mets Pillar would add defense and speed to the bench (we could use both), Dickey and Niese have near identical FIPS, Dickey would be better between some fireballers, I can only imagine facing degrom, Harvey and then Dickey etc and Pillar isn't even arbitration eligible until 2018. THe Mets would ALSO clear Niese's 2016 salary. If Lagares bounces back then the Mets have 2 good defensive CF options for next season. 1 being insanely cheap.
the hell are you talking about? Granderson is reportedly our starting CF if this deal happens. I sure as hell don't want Conforto/Granderson out there every single night late in games down the stretch (not to mention we don't even know how bad Granderson may be in CF at this point. It's not unreasonable to believe there is a real chance it ends up being Granderson-Lagares-Bruce. Pillar gives them a good late inning option who adds speed. Even late throwing in Pillar AND Lagares helps them late.
i'm not crazy about trading for bruce and rather get a rental like upton who won't cost wheeler. Wheeler as your 5th starter is nuts. I also think they need a right handed bat more.
looking at Dickey for Niese being a push that saves them 9 million for next year (where we shouldn't be spending 9 million on a Dickey OR a Niese with our projected SP) and Pillar adds speed and defense. Dickey also a better option out of the pen should we make the playoffs.
I don't think the Mets should be in any hurry to give up Niese.
How many teams have a guy like that as their #5 starter as he would be in a Harvey, de Grom, Sydegaard, Matz, Niese rotation? And he's lefty, so if Matz continues to have injury issues they have protection on a team friendly deal.
And not that he needs the help, but Niese being successful makes Benigno look dumber. :-)
looking at Dickey for Niese being a push that saves them 9 million for next year (where we shouldn't be spending 9 million on a Dickey OR a Niese with our projected SP) and Pillar adds speed and defense. Dickey also a better option out of the pen should we make the playoffs.
Yeah that make sense and would be fine.
rotation assuming the trade Wheeler for Bruce or some other bat.
Wheeler as our 5th starter would be great... but first off, we aren't going to see that until a year from now and he's unlikely to even be "right" until 2017.
I'd be just as excited about seeing Fulmer emerge and take that spot.
i'm not crazy about trading for bruce and rather get a rental like upton who won't cost wheeler. Wheeler as your 5th starter is nuts. I also think they need a right handed bat more.
Well, you get two righties back with Wright and TDA.
Marc Carig ✔ @MarcCarig
Don't have specifics on other names but Mets are positioning themselves to go in several different directions. All to help outfield.
might be their best player. He's not being benched or traded and I'm not advocating that at all. I'm saying assuming they add a CO and Granderson is the CF 1. It's a LOCK he won't be good, he hasn't been good in CF in a long, long time 2. Having a late inning replacement for both he and Conforto that ALSO adds some speed would be nice, Dickey has been as good as Niese, has experience pitching out of the pen and the Mets can save money assuming they decline Dickey's option. I'd much prefer 9 million to spend on offense next year than Jon Niese.
The Mets are going to shed $44M off of payroll next year with UFAs and Mejia suspension along:
Colon > not replace in starting rotation
Uribe > Wright
Clippard > Rookie
Murphy > Herrera
Parnell > Rookie
Blevins > Rookie (or re-sign)
Johnson > cheap utility sign or rookie
Mejia > Rookie
I know Duda is due a raise, but I still do not see a rise in salary next year even WITH Bruce.
There's a lot of arbitration raises but then again you also might be trading Niese, Granderson, or trying to eat some of Cuddyer's contract to find a taker also.
might be their best player. He's not being benched or traded and I'm not advocating that at all. I'm saying assuming they add a CO and Granderson is the CF 1. It's a LOCK he won't be good, he hasn't been good in CF in a long, long time 2. Having a late inning replacement for both he and Conforto that ALSO adds some speed would be nice, Dickey has been as good as Niese, has experience pitching out of the pen and the Mets can save money assuming they decline Dickey's option. I'd much prefer 9 million to spend on offense next year than Jon Niese.
in theory, you're spot on.
in reality, what position are they going to spend on???
might be their best player. He's not being benched or traded and I'm not advocating that at all. I'm saying assuming they add a CO and Granderson is the CF 1. It's a LOCK he won't be good, he hasn't been good in CF in a long, long time 2. Having a late inning replacement for both he and Conforto that ALSO adds some speed would be nice, Dickey has been as good as Niese, has experience pitching out of the pen and the Mets can save money assuming they decline Dickey's option. I'd much prefer 9 million to spend on offense next year than Jon Niese.
The Mets are going to shed $44M off of payroll next year with UFAs and Mejia suspension along:
Colon > not replace in starting rotation
Uribe > Wright
Clippard > Rookie
Murphy > Herrera
Parnell > Rookie
Blevins > Rookie (or re-sign)
Johnson > cheap utility sign or rookie
Mejia > Rookie
I know Duda is due a raise, but I still do not see a rise in salary next year even WITH Bruce.
There's a lot of arbitration raises but then again you also might be trading Niese, Granderson, or trying to eat some of Cuddyer's contract to find a taker also.
Z, I get the arb thing.. but it doesn't come close to matching up with what's coming off of the books.
The Mets are going to shed $44M off of payroll next year with UFAs and Mejia suspension along:
Colon > not replace in starting rotation
Uribe > Wright
Clippard > Rookie
Murphy > Herrera
Parnell > Rookie
Blevins > Rookie (or re-sign)
Johnson > cheap utility sign or rookie
Mejia > Rookie
I know Duda is due a raise, but I still do not see a rise in salary next year even WITH Bruce.
Mets have 60 million committed + arbitration for Duda, Harvey, Familia, Tejada. Harvey+ Duda will eat up roughly 15, Familia around 5-6, Tejada about 3. You are also ignoring Cuddyer's salary goes up 4.5 million, Niese's goes up 2. Pre-Bruce trade they are already going to be over 85 million committed.
Marc Carig @MarcCarig 10m10 minutes ago
Mets are looking at guys other than Jay Bruce. Heard they are focused in strictly on outfielders at this point.
Marc Carig @MarcCarig 8m8 minutes ago
Don't have specifics on other names but Mets are positioning themselves to go in several different directions. All to help outfield.
Mets probably leaked this. Reds probably balking at sending money in the trade. lol
Buster Olney
There is some speculation within the industry about a possible BOS/Cubs/Padres three-way blockbuster taking shape. Lots of pieces that fit.
Buster Olney
There is some speculation within the industry about a possible BOS/Cubs/Padres three-way blockbuster taking shape. Lots of pieces that fit.
Peter Gammons @pgammo 30m30 minutes ago
After medical came back on Gomez, deal would have been made had Brewers given comp pick to even concerns
So we would have done the deal if we got a comp pick back? That's super frustrating to have it fall apart over something so minor. If it were a degenerative condition, blow it up, but if it's a minor injury they just wanted to be safe about this organization continues to shoot itself in the face over minutia. The comp pick wasn't worth all the negative momentum over the past 30 hours.
Peter Gammons @pgammo 30m30 minutes ago
After medical came back on Gomez, deal would have been made had Brewers given comp pick to even concerns
So we would have done the deal if we got a comp pick back? That's super frustrating to have it fall apart over something so minor. If it were a degenerative condition, blow it up, but if it's a minor injury they just wanted to be safe about this organization continues to shoot itself in the face over minutia. The comp pick wasn't worth all the negative momentum over the past 30 hours.
conversation could've been:
"he's obviously injured and won't fully help our club THIS YEAR, but it will heal enough for next year.. to supplement this, we would like a comp"
makes sense.
RE: I'm assuming Gammons means our talks with MIL? If so, bizarre
Peter Gammons @pgammo 30m30 minutes ago
After medical came back on Gomez, deal would have been made had Brewers given comp pick to even concerns
So we would have done the deal if we got a comp pick back? That's super frustrating to have it fall apart over something so minor. If it were a degenerative condition, blow it up, but if it's a minor injury they just wanted to be safe about this organization continues to shoot itself in the face over minutia. The comp pick wasn't worth all the negative momentum over the past 30 hours.
That's yet another opinion. Who knows where he heard that from. Could very well be Milwaukee's side. Im not believing any of it and moving on. Bruce is making a lot more money than Gomez was.
Marc Carig ✔ @MarcCarig
I'm told that while Mets could add something else (ie a reliever), it would be secondary piece. The clear focus is on an outfielder.
1. TBD
2. He's playing every day & even though not up to his full potential we still badly wanted him prior to medical review. So not buying this.
I'd have traded for Gomez if there's confidence he can still reach his full potential, I understand objecting if it's degenerative or requires surgery. Seems more like we were just haggling without any definitive info one way or the other.
I wish I understood why cespedes isn't in the conversation more. I like that he's a pure rental. Should be much cheaper in price given he can't be hit with the QO. Want a righty bat. Tigers are clearly selling. Could it really be the right field thing? Find that super strange.
of an upside play but I like Cingrani, said so on twitter and he started following me lol. Hoover isn't obtainable, Diaz wouldn't be terrible but he's basically only usable vs. lefties. Not much there, no.
I wish I understood why cespedes isn't in the conversation more. I like that he's a pure rental. Should be much cheaper in price given he can't be hit with the QO. Want a righty bat. Tigers are clearly selling. Could it really be the right field thing? Find that super strange.
I know! Thats who I have a boner for but its a 2 month rental. Bruce makes more sense long term actually.
of an upside play but I like Cingrani, said so on twitter and he started following me lol. Hoover isn't obtainable, Diaz wouldn't be terrible but he's basically only usable vs. lefties. Not much there, no.
Cingrani walks a ton of guys, is he more of a loogy?
I'm going to guess we don't get Bruce, and instead get a rental bat cheaper than expected. Nimmo + Gselleman for Upton. Sandy has long coveted Upton, Cespedes is out there also and may be even cheaper to get since he won't bring DET a comp pick. I predict Sandy lands his white whale finally, and though it's not ideal since it's a rental it strengthens the lineup more than any other potential option out there (including Bruce IMO).
I wish I understood why cespedes isn't in the conversation more. I like that he's a pure rental. Should be much cheaper in price given he can't be hit with the QO. Want a righty bat. Tigers are clearly selling. Could it really be the right field thing? Find that super strange.
I know! Thats who I have a boner for but its a 2 month rental. Bruce makes more sense long term actually.
under performing due to injury. And if Lagares is having a down year strictly due to the elbow, do they even need Gomez next year when you would probably want Conforto to be full time in LF, a healthy Lagares in CF, Grandy in RF, Cuddyer on bench as an experienced bat, occasional fill in at 1B/LF/RF?
Reds have said Hoover is unavailable. Groomed to replace Chapman. Not a FA until after 2018. If you are getting Hoover you are giving up another very solid prospect so pass.
I'm going to guess we don't get Bruce, and instead get a rental bat cheaper than expected. Nimmo + Gselleman for Upton. Sandy has long coveted Upton, Cespedes is out there also and may be even cheaper to get since he won't bring DET a comp pick. I predict Sandy lands his white whale finally, and though it's not ideal since it's a rental it strengthens the lineup more than any other potential option out there (including Bruce IMO).
I would much rather the went after Upton than Bruce.
I hope Sandy really goes for it and makes that happen and doesn't settle for what I fear would be a big disappointment in Bruce.
of an upside play but I like Cingrani, said so on twitter and he started following me lol. Hoover isn't obtainable, Diaz wouldn't be terrible but he's basically only usable vs. lefties. Not much there, no.
Cingrani walks a ton of guys, is he more of a loogy?
I actually still think he can be a starter but yeah better vs, lefties.
I'm going to guess we don't get Bruce, and instead get a rental bat cheaper than expected. Nimmo + Gselleman for Upton. Sandy has long coveted Upton, Cespedes is out there also and may be even cheaper to get since he won't bring DET a comp pick. I predict Sandy lands his white whale finally, and though it's not ideal since it's a rental it strengthens the lineup more than any other potential option out there (including Bruce IMO).
The last 2 days were such massive kicks to the nuts that I actually wouldn't be surprised if we completely whiffed and wound up with nothing more than a spare part or a BP arm.
No excuse and they should have won that last game regardless but in my gut I think that if it had never rained they would have won that game easily. They lost all the momentum and it was a fresh start for SD and things sometime just happen.
the animosity between the Wilpons and Boras played a role in nixing the Gomez deal?
After the whole Beltran fiasco, maybe Jeff was afraid Boras would advise Gomez to have hip surgery, so that he would be healthy heading into free agency
I think what happened is that with a 7-1 lead, Terry decided to give guys work in the pen in a non-pressure situation to keep them sharp or with Parnell work out the kinks.
Probably not a bad idea but it just mushroomed on him.
Ironically, if Mets were ahead 2-1 or 3-1, he probably would have left Niese in and then gone Clippard and Familia, and the Mets likely would have won,
Anthony DiComo ✔ @AnthonyDiComo
My understanding is #Mets have at least CONSIDERED Cespedes. Doesn't mean it was serious talk, but sounds like they're exploring everything.
Anthony DiComo ✔ @AnthonyDiComo
My understanding is #Mets have at least CONSIDERED Cespedes. Doesn't mean it was serious talk, but sounds like they're exploring everything.
They have 4 hours to make something happen. Looks like they might not get Bruce after all
I think what happened is that with a 7-1 lead, Terry decided to give guys work in the pen in a non-pressure situation to keep them sharp or with Parnell work out the kinks.
Probably not a bad idea but it just mushroomed on him.
Ironically, if Mets were ahead 2-1 or 3-1, he probably would have left Niese in and then gone Clippard and Familia, and the Mets likely would have won,
Niese wasn't good in the 6th. We were probably seeing a reliever in the 7th. No one out of the ordinary was used.
they know exactly what it would take to get Bruce and are now calling around to see if they can get any other better deal. Better be careful they dont piss Cincinnati off though.
I've never seen a manager worse at handling a pitching staff than him. Has no sense of turning points in a game and making adjustments on the fly. Anyway you cut it he's a terrible in-game manager.
The closer this team comes to approaching respectability the more he is exposed with his questionable decisions. He's costing us critical games in a playoff race.
He's also awful in a press conference and with the media. What is the upside to having this loser as our manager? I didn't get extending him at the time, still don't and never will.
I've never seen a manager worse at handling a pitching staff than him. Has no sense of turning points in a game and making adjustments on the fly. Anyway you cut it he's a terrible in-game manager.
The closer this team comes to approaching respectability the more he is exposed with his questionable decisions. He's costing us critical games in a playoff race.
He's also awful in a press conference and with the media. What is the upside to having this loser as our manager? I didn't get extending him at the time, still don't and never will.
He was probably the most affordable, from the bargain bin of managers
Anthony DiComo ✔ @AnthonyDiComo
I just asked an executive point blank if Upton remains possible. "Anybody," came the response. So yeah, #Mets casting a wide net indeed.
Alright, they're casting a large net.. but the deadline is quickly approaching so they'd better start focusing on someone. Otherwise they're going to be left with their tails between their legs.
It's the icing on the cake. Realistically there is no cake without another bat. A playoff flirtation and perhaps a quick one and done as a weak division winner. Is that a step forward form recent times? Yes. It's also a missed opportunity to capitalize on a chance to contend for a championship this year. Right now.
think they will make a deal. I'd be surprised if they didn't. Just don't wanna hear "deals CAN be made after the deadline" etc as a rallying cry if they don't.
Talk about an opinion out of left field with nothing to back it up
not a great player but might be a good fit with Mets.
He plays CF
He can bat lead off or ninth
He is LH, so he can switch off with Lagares
Hit over 300 last year and batting 298 this year
He has one more arbitration year before free agency
He is a very good base stealer
Seems like he fits a lot of the criteria the Mets are looking for. Obviously Bruce is a better hitter but is Revere a fall back option?
Can't really just say "Parra was had for cheap, Mets should have made that deal" because they wanted more than that from us when we had initiated talks, then we moved onto Gomez, deal fell through, relationship was already fractured by the time MIL realized they had overplayed their hand on Parra and had to accept less for him.
Not saying you're wrong but it's apparent. Doesn't hit for much of an average and plays in a bandbox. You completely dismiss his atrocious 2014 based on your opinion his knee never recovered. I'd like to add him but not on an overpay. There are some valid concerns with the guy.
At this point Im guessing cheap. Commercial real estate has roared back. But either way -- cheap or poor -- they shouldnt continue to own and operate a NYC baseball team like this.
Not saying you're wrong but it's apparent. Doesn't hit for much of an average and plays in a bandbox. You completely dismiss his atrocious 2014 based on your opinion his knee never recovered. I'd like to add him but not on an overpay. There are some valid concerns with the guy.
He had an outlier HORRENDOUS season where he had knee surgery, came back in 17 days and now is having another year EXACTLY in line with his career numbers. You don't think it's a pretty fair bet the knee was the issue? What are the valid concerns? He had one bad season? He's back to what he was. Bandbox means nothing, Citifeld is average 1.268 homers per game, GAB 1.37 and that's with the Mets horrendous lineup. He's the OPPOSITE of inconsistent. He's exactly consistent. More so than most players in baseball. 250+ 340+ 90+ 25+ every single season.
The day Doubleday decided to walk away and ceded the team
Jon Heyman @JonHeymanCBS 3m3 minutes ago New York, USA
mets greatest concern is lagares in CF. so rajai davis & venable could work. but upton/cespedes more lineup impact.
Could you imagine if they got upton and cespedes. That would be insane. Of course Davis and Venable is 9000 times more likely.
Bruce finished 10th in MVP voting 2 times in the last 3 seasons, 3 30 homer seasons, may do it again. Like I said the second piece would dictate my view but "inconsistent" is laughable. We gave Granderson 4 years 60 million at 33 years old coming off of a 221 game run at .231/.319/.469 yet Jay Bruce's 2014 is too much to overcome?
Mets talking about Cespedes according to Rosenthal
Jon Heyman @JonHeymanCBS 3m3 minutes ago New York, USA
mets greatest concern is lagares in CF. so rajai davis & venable could work. but upton/cespedes more lineup impact.
Could you imagine if they got upton and cespedes. That would be insane. Of course Davis and Venable is 9000 times more likely.
He means one or the other. No way we'd acquire both. Literally no chance.
Even if it's the latter (and I'm not saying it is), then they need to sell the team to someone who will properly invest in this team. Period. They play in the biggest market and their payroll is laughable...
Jim Bowden
@JimBowden_ESPN
Put your seat belts on there will be a flurry of trades that are done but won't be announced until final hour according to several GMs
Bruce has questions. If he didn't why would they trade him at all given his reasonable contract. I think he's a good player and would help us. If they are asking for significantly more than the Wheeler/Flores type package we had on the table for Gomez I would walk away. If you wouldn't that's fine.
the Wilpon's, spending, not spending, cheapness, is so tiring, we all agree on it, but keep repeating it over and over to what purpose? Do you think they will sell?
Bruce has questions. If he didn't why would they trade him at all given his reasonable contract. I think he's a good player and would help us. If they are asking for significantly more than the Wheeler/Flores type package we had on the table for Gomez I would walk away. If you wouldn't that's fine.
The issue is calling him "inconsistent". If that's the case so is David Wright who also had a bad year (2011), then so are numerous players. Inconsistent is flat false. 1 bad season where you have knee surgery now gives you an inconsistent label?
if next season Jacob degrom hurts his knee, has surgery, comes back after 17 days, sucks the rest of the way... comes back in 2017 to his career numbers, wouldn't MOST people agree it's likely the knee was the issue?
for the ?? The Reds are rebuilding. They have an absolute superstar who isn't young (Votto) and not a ton around him. Makes total sense to deal Bruce if they can get back enough value. They aren't going to be good next season either.
the Marlins are looking to make deals. I wonder if we could add Marcel Ozuna as a buy low candidate. I doubt they'd be interested in Niese though and Wheeler/Fulmer is too much to offer.
He doesn't hit for average. His 2014 was a train wreck. He takes advantage of that ballpark.
What's the most you would offer for him? Give us a trade scenario.
1. I'd 100% give the Gomez package without thinking twice
2. If we are assuming Wheeler is 100% in the deal then I wouldn't give up any of Smith, Cecchini, Fulmer or Nimmo. I'd waffle on Rosario, I'd absolutely give Montero (despite being a fan). I'd be open to any other name.
Barring 'official announcements' they have proven they are unreliable and not worth getting your panties in a bunch over. They have a job to do and that's to generate hits/interest. They'll tyrow just about anything out there with minimal justification just to have something out there.
I would basically mirror the players available for a deal for Bruce. So if we find out that was on the table and it wasn't enough for the Reds how can you kill the Mets before knowing how it played out?
I would basically mirror the players available for a deal for Bruce. So if we find out that was on the table and it wasn't enough for the Reds how can you kill the Mets before knowing how it played out?
Torrag,
100% mean this non-snarkily but I think you keep missing my qualifiers... I'm saying IF the issue is the Mets are calling out his "inconsistency" AND "I can't judge it without seeing the second piece". 1 for 1 I do that trade and really like it. Second piece matters but "inconsistent" is simply not fair.
This is all part of the game. The Mets leak information as a ploy to get the Reds nervous. They say they are in on "many" bats. They knew all about Bruce's numbers long before entering a negotiation. And he might be the target all along.
what I dont get is how do you get upset about something that is being reported to be happening"Mets close to Bruce" without knowing for a fact what are involved in the actual conversations between the GM's? It's not like there is an embedded reported in the Mets war room
although id really want to resign him and i doubt that happens. I also dont really like that WAS is on him, they are a lot more aggressive then we are.
If the package is fair the verbage 'inconsistent' doesn't matter to me
All I care about is what we pay for the guy in talent. If they are asking for more and our PR guys want to spin it so what. At that point he doesn't play for us so bash away.
I would have made an offer to Boston this past offseason rather than go the Cuddyer route.
Bring him in, sign him and let him play LF for however long. Conforto looks like a good young talent but we don't need to rely on him this season. Send him down and let him develop outside of a pennant race.
This offseason or next, we can worry about the makeup of the OF and maybe try to move Grandy along to open up RF for Conforto.
I'd start my offer to Detroit with Wheeler and Nimmo, what else would it take? I'd definitely listen to Detroit.
although id really want to resign him and i doubt that happens. I also dont really like that WAS is on him, they are a lot more aggressive then we are.
I think they could sign Cespedes. He probably only costs an extra 5 million a year or so then Bruce annually. But Ill worry about that next year.
It's just funny. No matter how many times bad info gets put out there, we continue to cling to every tweet and react to it as if it's 100% true or likely. And I 100% include myself in this, I am as bad as anyone.
Just gotta take a step back and take everything with a grain of salt.
These reporters are like MLB hitters. Even the best ones only put out legitimate, useful information about 3 out of every 10 times.
if Wilpon is a gambler and can read the Real Estate in 2,3,4,5 years from now and where he should be financially, he could invest in 5 long term contracts if he sees a boom. If he bets wrong, MLB will take over the team and sell it.
spending $100 million. And the union doesnt want to really complain, because the freedom to spend as much or as little as the owner desires is what the union wants. There are going to be more Dodgers than Mets. Salary floors beget salary caps.
Enough info has been out there now to make the fans believe the Mets tried.. now here comes the part where the Reds "backed out" or the price was too steep. :)
Highly doubt the Mets are
ZGiants98 : 2:03 pm : link : reply
Engaging in these deals to prove a point to the fans.
But the only way to change the perception is for the Wilponsi led Mets to actually do something to significantly take on payroll at the deadline. If they get shut out they will and deserve to hear about it until they make it happen.
Is dead and Mets are going hard after Cespedes. Oh man, will I be pumped with Cespedes. Duda and Cespedes back to back 3 and 4 is what this team has needed for forever. Lol.
oel Sherman @Joelsherman1 4m4 minutes ago
#Mets continue to add bat(s), but the optimism is down a bit from earlier today. Still 1:45 to get something done. Do think trying hard
Opinions? It would take a mega offer to get an extension done in the negotiating window to buyout his trip to the open market.
Excellent question. Also wonder how willing the Mets are to trade something decent for a guy, fans "fall for" him and then the Mets let him walk unwilling to give him 130-150 million? Imagine the hammering they would take.
And it's a huge series but yeah, going to be majorly bummed. I'm starting to think as the clock winds down teams might ask MORE from us knowing we are desperate.
Tigers have to trade Cespedes though. They can't offer him a QO.
would be a fun add but if they give up Wheeler for him I'm done for the rest of the season, you can quote me on that.
"Cespedes
DanMetroMan : 2:22 pm : link : reply
would be a fun add but if they give up Wheeler for him I'm done for the rest of the season, you can quote me on that.
"
So, Bruce was just about done.. these guys were tweeting that they were just about at the stage of exchanging medical info.. now it's not happening.
It's so hard to believe ANY of this shit. 10 minutes from now, everyone will be tweeting that the Mets and Tigers can't find a match for Cespedes and talks are dead.
You know it feels like Sandy has to win EVERY trade. Sometimes you help yourself with a trade that isn't a WIN. There are other factors such as the PLAYERS psychology.
So, Bruce was just about done.. these guys were tweeting that they were just about at the stage of exchanging medical info.. now it's not happening.
It's so hard to believe ANY of this shit. 10 minutes from now, everyone will be tweeting that the Mets and Tigers can't find a match for Cespedes and talks are dead.
Team like the Reds aren't going to pay a lot of the contract for Bruce. You know thats what happened. Mets aren't willing to take on a lot of money. Its the elephant in the room
for Cespedes would be Sandy shamed into a terrible move. I don't see it happening but I'd be absolutely furious and be taking a break.
Wheeler for any rental would be pretty bad.
Wouldn't it ultimately depend of they were able to retain him? If they gamble and lose him yes mistake but if they gamble and he ends up signing a new deal with the Mets maybe it ends up a great deal.
is going to command a contract similar to David Wright's. You honestly see the Mets Sandy/Fred giving out a 7-8 year deal with 130-150 million? Does that seem likely? Further... they could have done that regardless of trading for him.
is also on record as saying he is looking forward to being a FA and talking to teams so it's not likely he's suddenly reupping on a team friendly deal.
I just think taking a break doesn't make a sense and you might as well enjoy the benefit of the rental by watching the team with the improved lineup and fighting for a playoff spot if we made the hypothetical overpayment. I totally get your sentiment on this though Dan.
If you trade Granderson, maybe you could sign Cespedes for 100 Mil +.
Either way Cespedes is the biggest bat available this entire deadline. We all wanted a move to improve THIS team. If we bring in Cespedes Im going to be ecstatic. Ill worry about Cespedes in the offseason along with every other option out there.
@Dave_Gershman
Mets making push to offset salary by including Niese in potential deal for OF, perhaps Cespedes. Tigers asking for Wheeler, obv.
disgusting.. sad thing is, these "small market" teams are making moves to make them better.. the Mets need to ADD a starting pitcher to off-set salary (if true)
don't give away 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019 value for 2 months of Cespedes. It's ridiculous. He's a solid player, he's not Piazza in his prime. The Mets STILL likely miss the playoffs with him. Take a shot with a Nimmo type overpay? Okay. Not Wheeler, that's ridiculous.
is going to command a contract similar to David Wright's. You honestly see the Mets Sandy/Fred giving out a 7-8 year deal with 130-150 million? Does that seem likely? Further... they could have done that regardless of trading for him.
Assuming that they would want to sing him then by trading for him it gives them two benefits; first they get the help they need this season as they make a run, waiting until next season doesn't help them at all. Two it gives them an inside track on signing him.
All I'm saying is if they do trade for him the final judgment has to be withheld until we see the final outcome.
If that were the case they wouldn't let Sandy even enter into the discussions only to balk and walk away because of money. Makes them look like a joke.
think they aren't going to get anyone. The FO is shrewd with giving up talent and the wilpons have no money. Dombrowski is no dummy, you're not going to pull a fast one on him.
think they aren't going to get anyone. The FO is shrewd with giving up talent and the wilpons have no money. Dombrowski is no dummy, you're not going to pull a fast one on him.
The only thing that has me confident is the Tigers HAVE to trade Cespedes or they get nothing. It puts pressure on them too.
Do they still have time to do their due diligence afterwards? Things like reviewing medical records etc.; or does all of that have to be done prior to the deadline?
If it means we avoid any type of wheeler for a rental deal. I could kind of be ok with giving him up for bruce (I keep going back and forth) but I hate giving up long term assets with an ownership group that won't replace top end talent via free agency.
but man I wish we just accepted f'ing Gomez. Hard to comprehend turning down Medicals for a guy playing everyday when your giving up a guy on the shelf with TJS. Plus there wasn't any long term financial risk. Ugh.
than a substantial overpay for a rental.
I know there are no guarantees and people could be hurt, but next year Thor will be up for the full season, as will Matz and Fulmer is waiting to replace someone who gets injured. Plus Conforto and Hererra have more time to be ready to contribute.
be interesting to see what happens with Gomez and what else eventually leaks in that regard. The Astros are trying to win the world series this year, are known to be a very smart front office, and didn't see anything wrong with Gomez medicals.
be interesting to see what happens with Gomez and what else eventually leaks in that regard. The Astros are trying to win the world series this year, are known to be a very smart front office, and didn't see anything wrong with Gomez medicals.
Except the whole world can see Gomez is playing injured. They had the ability to take on more risk than we did considering Wright and everything else. Its really pretty simple.
Trade for 2 guys who are (an improvement) but nothing more than bench players on a good team.
Trade for Clippard out of necessity because of Mejia.
Create and back out of a significant trade "for effect".
Work tirelessly to the deadline while accomplishing nothing, again to sell us all the bill of goods.
Tonight Alderson will tell you he like what they were able to do and wishes they could have done something more significant. He'll remind us all that TDA is back and that they are optimistic on DW.
So there is little need to overpay when there is no guarantee they will make it to the dance. They aren't the Astros, Dodgers, Cardinals, Yanks that are already leading and trying to hold off other teams.
But the wilpons are expecting huge crowds this weekend, if they dont upgrade the team, dont fucking go! Let them see 14k on a friday night with harvey pitching. But again, people can spend and do what they want and it is fun to go to a ball game at the nice citi field. Wilpons will never be gone ughhhh
We don't know they didn't 'see anything they didn't like'. They may be taking a risk on his health. He sure isn't running like the same guy from the past. His range in CF is diminished and his base running production has dropped off a cliff. They could be going for it now and decided it was a chance they would take.
We don't know they didn't 'see anything they didn't like'. They may be taking a risk on his health. He sure isn't running like the same guy from the past. His range in CF is diminished and his base running production has dropped off a cliff. They could be going for it now and decided it was a chance they would take.
100% Torrag.
leverage is that any team in baseball would add him for...
A kid that is a long way from the bigs but has upside and a first round reclamation pitcher showing signs of life. If it happens that is a deal we can swalllow.
one major prospect for the best bat on the market rental or not. See Zack Wheeler/Beltran trade. The benefit is we get to keep one of our proven young starters who has already done it at the major league level which is what it would have cost for a 1.2 year trade. The length goes up, the price goes up.
They can take Rosario and marry him for all I care if it means we are getting Cespedes.
Smoker/Rosario for Cespedes you have to do. But again, this is coming from a random poster who provided no source or link and we're all running with it. Odds are there's nothing to it.
at least I'm not. I'm discussing it's merits. I've learned my lesson. I'm not getting amped up until we have an official ...MLB sanctioned ...reported ...finalized ...deal. Haha.
Cespedes is on the block because he can't be QO'd. Which means he walks and they get no compensation for him. Nothing. It's a clean break. That's bad asset management.
Cespedes is on the block because he can't be QO'd. Which means he walks and they get no compensation for him. Nothing. It's a clean break. That's bad asset management.
Cespedes is on the block because he can't be QO'd. Which means he walks and they get no compensation for him. Nothing. It's a clean break. That's bad asset management.
but isn't that failing your fanbase by giving up while 3.5 out?
Cespedes is on the block because he can't be QO'd. Which means he walks and they get no compensation for him. Nothing. It's a clean break. That's bad asset management.
We dont have a long term solution yet at SS, and that's one of the toughest positions to BS your way through.
Cecchini is getting pretty close. His bat has made some serious progress this year. He's got some fielding/throwing mechanics to work on but the bat really arrived this year.
Cespedes is on the block because he can't be QO'd. Which means he walks and they get no compensation for him. Nothing. It's a clean break. That's bad asset management.
You mean how the Mets lost Reyes?
Mets did QO Reyes. Got Place kri and a Reynolds as comp.
We dont have a long term solution yet at SS, and that's one of the toughest positions to BS your way through.
Come on Deej. He is the one you can absolutely trade. We have to part with somebody. You prefer Fulmer, Nimmo, Cecchini, Smith, Conforto?? Lets be a bit realistic here.
The Mets would choose Bruce because the financial commitment to Bruce is a fraction of the deal Cespedes is going to sign. It would be a similar call as when they signed Bay instead of pursuing Holiday.
RE: If teams agree on a trade prior to the deadline
Do they still have time to do their due diligence afterwards? Things like reviewing medical records etc.; or does all of that have to be done prior to the deadline?
Cespedes is on the block because he can't be QO'd. Which means he walks and they get no compensation for him. Nothing. It's a clean break. That's bad asset management.
You mean how the Mets lost Reyes?
Mets did QO Reyes. Got Place kri and a Reynolds as comp.
Not Reynolds. It was Plawecki and what ended up being Ivan Wilson.
We dont have a long term solution yet at SS, and that's one of the toughest positions to BS your way through.
Come on Deej. He is the one you can absolutely trade. We have to part with somebody. You prefer Fulmer, Nimmo, Cecchini, Smith, Conforto?? Lets be a bit realistic here.
Assuming that what we're getting back is a fair return for each of these players (acknowledging they have different values), Fulmer and Smith are the ones I trade most quickly. Then probably Nimmo. Last is the SSs and Conforto.
I mean, what's the argument to trade Rosario while sitting on Fulmer? What are the chances we're hard up for a SS in 2-3 years? Same question about a front of rotation pitcher.
WTH are you talking baout the Mets got draft comp for reyes
As far as 'failing your fan base' goes. I don't care when other teams fail their fans. Only when ours fails us. Which happens all too often. We're staring it right in the face again today if we can't get a bat to legitimize our playoff chances.
and they call up an OF from the minors. Wow. Would be funny if the deal has been agreed to and they've just been waiting to announce it all this time to punk us.
I'm wary of dealing with Sandy this close to the deadline. It's not at all clear that he's operating with the necessary authority to say "yes" to a deal.
Tony Paul @TonyPaul1984 1m1 minute ago
If #Mets can get over the fact that Yoenis Cespedes had chicken pox as a child, he's going to New York. #Tigers
It's not at all clear that he's operating with the necessary authority to say "yes" to a deal.
If your medical people advise you to nix the Gomez trade because they don't like what they see you respect that. You want to criticize their medical track record fine I understand. That's who he has to work with.
If the Reds think Bruce is worth more than the offer on the table that is their call not Sandy's.
about losing fulmer if they were to resign cespedes, but im not too confident in that. That said we kept wheeler so im happy about that. You werent getting Cespedes for Gsellman and Montero, you have to give to get.
@GottliebShow
The #Mets= worlds most annoying shopper-bought a CF,kept receipt,took him back,thought about Bruce,too expensive,got Cespedes on sale rack
Fulmer would hurt as much as Wheeler for me. That's a steep price. This team could win a championship with Cespedes. It's a longshot but it is possible. If it turns out to be Fulmer I think you'd have to do it.
Still have Wheeler back next June and Montero and Niese. We should be fine. And the dream rotation is still in tact. I knew it would be somebody good though.
Fulmer would hurt as much as Wheeler for me. That's a steep price. This team could win a championship with Cespedes. It's a longshot but it is possible. If it turns out to be Fulmer I think you'd have to do it.
Smoker is a reclamation prospect but throws mid to high 90's from the left side. Killing it in AA right now but he's sorta old at 26.
and I've never seen a picture of Fulmer.Fulmer might be great and win a couple of Cy Youngs but I am thrilled to see that ZW will be on the bump for the Mets next June, thrilled
We might be able to coax Fred into opening his checkbook. Especially if Cespedes gets here and goes on a romp. That's what we have to hope for as Mets fans on both counts.
Now fire Collins so he doesn't hold the team back.
Are the Mets sending a jet or helicopter to pick..
But I am so fucking happy right now. I'm sorry but this is a much bigger bat than Gomez. Back to an A+ deadline for me. Three big bats and a setup man/closer is as much as we could have ever dreamed for and we got the best bat on the entire market(sorry Tulo). Now let's get some players back and make the damn playoffs.
RE: Are the Mets sending a jet or helicopter to pick..
Jared Diamond @jareddiamond
What a spectacular trade deadline for Sandy Alderson, acquiring four major contributors without giving up a big prospect or big-leaguer.
Jared Diamond @jareddiamond
What a spectacular trade deadline for Sandy Alderson, acquiring four major contributors without giving up a big prospect or big-leaguer.
He did great. The team is much better than a week ago.
Jared Diamond @jareddiamond
What a spectacular trade deadline for Sandy Alderson, acquiring four major contributors without giving up a big prospect or big-leaguer.
He did great. The team is much better than a week ago.
Fulmer is not a big prospect yet but if he continues like this, he will be
at some point this organization had to give up a pitcher for a bat. If you told me we would add Cespedes and still have The big 5 plus Niese and Montero, I'd say we did pretty well.
Of course there is the caveat of locking up Cespedes but let's worry about that in November. We have a pennant race to win.
I have looked at Mazzoni or Wieck's numbers in San Diego. Once they are gone, I dont care. Fulmer could win a Cy Young or 2 but i dont care about him anymore
Secondary stuff and command are not consistently there, but if he can still throw 97 with the same movement, he has the potential in time to be a 1/2 starter.
Even with the injury, I think Wheeler's chances of being a frontline starter are better than Fulmer's.
I have looked at Mazzoni or Wieck's numbers in San Diego. Once they are gone, I dont care. Fulmer could win a Cy Young or 2 but i dont care about him anymore
we complained we are never in on any of the good ones. Now we have one and we are worried about next year if he's gone? Please explain?
Let me ask you this: Are you self-aware that you prioritize the present Mets over the future Mets much more than many posters here? It's not a criticism -- there is no right or wrong balance there. But at times you seem unable to even grasp why people are worried about what happens next, after the season is over.
We need a bat now. We can do something this year!! Let's ride this wave. Maybe we re sign cespedes maybe we don't but let's stop being typical met fans and relish the act that we have a legit chance right now. It's time to change the mindset. We traded a AA and a A pitcher for an allstar.
No disrespect I like you as a poster a lot, but I've been playing the"future" game for the last 5-6 years, that was the thing that kept me going, but finally have a team that can truly compete night in and night out this season feels different. I'll always be looking to the future, but I can now enjoy the present. Hope that answers you
No disrespect I like you as a poster a lot, but I've been playing the"future" game for the last 5-6 years, that was the thing that kept me going, but finally have a team that can truly compete night in and night out this season feels different. I'll always be looking to the future, but I can now enjoy the present. Hope that answers you
Exactly!!! It's not doom and gloom and wait till next year anymore. Let's get into the dance and make a scene!!!
I just think getting to the 1st round is a real long shot
I didnt want to put a lot of eggs into the 2015 basket. One WC is spoken for, and getting to the WC is only 50% getting to the playoffs. Its mostly division or bust, and the Nats are just more talented.
Im not necessarily for or against this trade. I was more worried about giving 2, 3, 4 important pieces. But my preference was to get pieces back that had some term on them.
We might be able to coax Fred into opening his checkbook. Especially if Cespedes gets here and goes on a romp. That's what we have to hope for as Mets fans on both counts.
Now fire Collins so he doesn't hold the team back.
watched as recently as this season Eric Campbell hitting clean up. Muno Cecilini Kirk Recker Mayberry were nice guys, but would you pay to watch them hit?
watched as recently as this season Eric Campbell hitting clean up. Muno Cecilini Kirk Recker Mayberry were nice guys, but would you pay to watch them hit?
Meanwhile, #Mets didnt think Tulo was available, then backed off on Gomez. Also hearing possibility of Bruce, as mentioned by @Buster_ESPN.
Confirmed the #Reds have interest in Zack Wheeler. Guessing it take more than him to get Bruce.
Reds beat writer
If #Mets get Bruce - and it is very much an if - Granderson likely would move from RF to CF and Lagares would become late-inning reserve.
If #Mets get Bruce - and it is very much an if - Granderson likely would move from RF to CF and Lagares would become late-inning reserve.
Thats what Im thinking and I don't hate it. Im betting Granderson doesn't embarrass himself.
#Reds Bruce is owed the balance of his $12M salary this season and $12.5M next season. Has $13M club option or $1M buyout for 2017.
#Reds Bruce is owed the balance of his $12M salary this season and $12.5M next season. Has $13M club option or $1M buyout for 2017.
So in other words... MORE than Gomez.
John Fay retweeted Ben Hamm
#Reds said they arent trading and no. John Fay added,
Ben Hamm @bmhamm
@johnfayman do you think that wheeler for frazier would be a good trade?
Not trading frazier
Not trading frazier
mmmm
I also doubt the Mets would take on that much salary.
The trade predictions that Mets fans make are very entertaining.
Hey, we could toss in a Mejia.
When healthy Gomez is the better player and fit
Sandy Aderson: "It's very simple. Our doctors felt the health risk was too great. Houston's doctors apparently feel otherwise. That's it."
I don't think Conforto needs to be an everyday OF this year or next.
Nope. They need a righty bat to be honest
If probably go Conforto-Granderson-Bruce against right-handers and Cuddyer-Lagares-Bruce against lefthanders. I think that would add some serious punch to the outfield.
Brewers panicked and got hosed.
I believe Sandy on this one. If Gomez's hip wasn't an issue, explain his production.
The Mets are being cautios.. if he needed surgery and missed significant time, it would set the Mets back for nothing.
Wheeler for Bruce doesn't sound right.. like someone said, it's likely Wheeler + for Bruce. Let's see if it comes to that.
Brewers panicked and got hosed.
I'd much prefer to have been the team that got Gomez for what the Astros just did rather than be the team that significantly lowered Gomez' value.
He obviously doesn't have all Gomez's tools and doesn't play CF but if you talk strictly about hitting, he might be a shade better.
He also hits LHP and RHP equally well this season
But if the Mets don't get bruce or someone else, it will be hard to argue that money was not an issue--especially after the Astros traded for Gomez
He physically got huge over night and his production spiked through the roof for just two years after a career of mediocrity. Now he has hip issues, ect.and his numbers are WAY down.
Could be totally wrong but he fits the profile to a "T".
Two losers and only one winner in this. And that's the Astros.
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Look at the final Brewers - Astros trade. And compare it to what the Mets Brewers trade was going to be. I've been screaming for the Mets to work a deal with the Astros for Phillips for weeks now. So I like him a LOT. But, that was an absolutely horrible trade for the Brewers. Especially in comparison to what they were going to get from the Mets. Let the dust settle, this isn't a homerism rant, just reality.
Brewers panicked and got hosed.
I'd much prefer to have been the team that got Gomez for what the Astros just did rather than be the team that significantly lowered Gomez' value.
I know what Gomez has been.. but isn't it a red flag that he's had hip discomfort AND is batting .260, under 10 SB, Under 10HR?
do you realize what a drop off that is from his past few years? it's not an off year, it's a ridiculous fall off of a cliff.
If they got him, why should we have expected a jump back to normalcy? And if it IS his hip, what's to say he won't need surgery? and what's to say if he DOESN'T get surgery that his production stays where it is right now.
Too many questions before you trade Wheeler for him.
He physically got huge over night and his production spiked through the roof for just two years after a career of mediocrity. Now he has hip issues, ect.and his numbers are WAY down.
Could be totally wrong but he fits the profile to a "T".
maybe, but it points more at injury.
he was always projected to be a productive player, even when he was a string bean. I am sure he'll return to productive player, just depends on when he recoops
The only question is how much defense in CF do we lose and is it justifiable? Having a better arm in RF might help us in that regard. Granderson has shown some pretty nice range this year. IDK. Could work. And we'd still have Lagares to take over in later innings.
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but I actually think Gomez was a juicer.
He physically got huge over night and his production spiked through the roof for just two years after a career of mediocrity. Now he has hip issues, ect.and his numbers are WAY down.
Could be totally wrong but he fits the profile to a "T".
maybe, but it points more at injury.
he was always projected to be a productive player, even when he was a string bean. I am sure he'll return to productive player, just depends on when he recoops
Not necessarily. For players who's games are built on speed, 30 is the magic number where these players tend to start declining. See Jose Reyes.
TTH, I agree with you.
Power and speed come from your legs and hips. Maybe it isn't his hips.. maybe it's a leg, a knee, a foot. Either way, something is up.
Like I said, it's not an off year. He's not "off".. he fell off a cliff.
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In comment 12394999 Shecky said:
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Look at the final Brewers - Astros trade. And compare it to what the Mets Brewers trade was going to be. I've been screaming for the Mets to work a deal with the Astros for Phillips for weeks now. So I like him a LOT. But, that was an absolutely horrible trade for the Brewers. Especially in comparison to what they were going to get from the Mets. Let the dust settle, this isn't a homerism rant, just reality.
Brewers panicked and got hosed.
I'd much prefer to have been the team that got Gomez for what the Astros just did rather than be the team that significantly lowered Gomez' value.
I know what Gomez has been.. but isn't it a red flag that he's had hip discomfort AND is batting .260, under 10 SB, Under 10HR?
do you realize what a drop off that is from his past few years? it's not an off year, it's a ridiculous fall off of a cliff.
If they got him, why should we have expected a jump back to normalcy? And if it IS his hip, what's to say he won't need surgery? and what's to say if he DOESN'T get surgery that his production stays where it is right now.
Too many questions before you trade Wheeler for him.
A ridiculous fall of of a cliff? His BA is the 3rd highest of his career. OBP is also the 3rd highest. The only stat that he is way down on is stolen bases.
Yup. Every post or comment Ive ever read about Gomez is he's a huge stolen base threat, 20 Homerun power, and gold glove CF. Thats literally where all his value lied. He is none of those things this year.
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In comment 12395015 ZGiants98 said:
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but I actually think Gomez was a juicer.
He physically got huge over night and his production spiked through the roof for just two years after a career of mediocrity. Now he has hip issues, ect.and his numbers are WAY down.
Could be totally wrong but he fits the profile to a "T".
maybe, but it points more at injury.
he was always projected to be a productive player, even when he was a string bean. I am sure he'll return to productive player, just depends on when he recoops
Not necessarily. For players who's games are built on speed, 30 is the magic number where these players tend to start declining. See Jose Reyes.
right. gradual decline. Not from 35+ steals to 7.
Sources: #Mets trying to land #Reds Bruce. Also exploring other options. Wheeler most likely would go to CIN and maybe one other piece.
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In comment 12395007 arcarsenal said:
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In comment 12394999 Shecky said:
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Look at the final Brewers - Astros trade. And compare it to what the Mets Brewers trade was going to be. I've been screaming for the Mets to work a deal with the Astros for Phillips for weeks now. So I like him a LOT. But, that was an absolutely horrible trade for the Brewers. Especially in comparison to what they were going to get from the Mets. Let the dust settle, this isn't a homerism rant, just reality.
Brewers panicked and got hosed.
I'd much prefer to have been the team that got Gomez for what the Astros just did rather than be the team that significantly lowered Gomez' value.
I know what Gomez has been.. but isn't it a red flag that he's had hip discomfort AND is batting .260, under 10 SB, Under 10HR?
do you realize what a drop off that is from his past few years? it's not an off year, it's a ridiculous fall off of a cliff.
If they got him, why should we have expected a jump back to normalcy? And if it IS his hip, what's to say he won't need surgery? and what's to say if he DOESN'T get surgery that his production stays where it is right now.
Too many questions before you trade Wheeler for him.
A ridiculous fall of of a cliff? His BA is the 3rd highest of his career. OBP is also the 3rd highest. The only stat that he is way down on is stolen bases.
Just because they are career high's doesn't mean they are good. A .260 hitter with 8 HR and no speed is not that intriguing sorry. Like I said, Kelly Johnson and Juan Uribe are each better offensively this year.
If probably go Conforto-Granderson-Bruce against right-handers and Cuddyer-Lagares-Bruce against lefthanders. I think that would add some serious punch to the outfield.
It actually works out well because Cuddyer probably can't play more than a few games a week anyway.
John Fay retweeted James
Because theyve talked to other teams about him. John Fay added,
James @theAgent_Z
@johnfayman Why do you think Bruce is considered a trade piece? Hard enough to trying to fill the LF hole...
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In comment 12395007 arcarsenal said:
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In comment 12394999 Shecky said:
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Look at the final Brewers - Astros trade. And compare it to what the Mets Brewers trade was going to be. I've been screaming for the Mets to work a deal with the Astros for Phillips for weeks now. So I like him a LOT. But, that was an absolutely horrible trade for the Brewers. Especially in comparison to what they were going to get from the Mets. Let the dust settle, this isn't a homerism rant, just reality.
Brewers panicked and got hosed.
I'd much prefer to have been the team that got Gomez for what the Astros just did rather than be the team that significantly lowered Gomez' value.
I know what Gomez has been.. but isn't it a red flag that he's had hip discomfort AND is batting .260, under 10 SB, Under 10HR?
do you realize what a drop off that is from his past few years? it's not an off year, it's a ridiculous fall off of a cliff.
If they got him, why should we have expected a jump back to normalcy? And if it IS his hip, what's to say he won't need surgery? and what's to say if he DOESN'T get surgery that his production stays where it is right now.
Too many questions before you trade Wheeler for him.
A ridiculous fall of of a cliff? His BA is the 3rd highest of his career. OBP is also the 3rd highest. The only stat that he is way down on is stolen bases.
SB 37>40>34 now SEVEN
HR 19>24>23 now EIGHT
that's power and speed.
if he was a .320 hitter, then your BA stat would be relevant. .262 BA really isn't a stat to hang his hat on.
Sources: #Mets trying to land #Reds Bruce. Also exploring other options. Wheeler most likely would go to CIN and maybe one other piece.
NOTE ... "Also exploring other options"
Why not concentrate on other guys that may be available?
Jeez.
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is good he still had terrible lefty/righty splits in the minors. Granderson has never been good against left-handers.
If probably go Conforto-Granderson-Bruce against right-handers and Cuddyer-Lagares-Bruce against lefthanders. I think that would add some serious punch to the outfield.
It actually works out well because Cuddyer probably can't play more than a few games a week anyway.
Yup and you can still use Cuddyer off the bench mostly or to give Duda a day off. Its growing on me big time. Bruce would still be a very nice addition.
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In comment 12395020 feelflows said:
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In comment 12395007 arcarsenal said:
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In comment 12394999 Shecky said:
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Look at the final Brewers - Astros trade. And compare it to what the Mets Brewers trade was going to be. I've been screaming for the Mets to work a deal with the Astros for Phillips for weeks now. So I like him a LOT. But, that was an absolutely horrible trade for the Brewers. Especially in comparison to what they were going to get from the Mets. Let the dust settle, this isn't a homerism rant, just reality.
Brewers panicked and got hosed.
I'd much prefer to have been the team that got Gomez for what the Astros just did rather than be the team that significantly lowered Gomez' value.
I know what Gomez has been.. but isn't it a red flag that he's had hip discomfort AND is batting .260, under 10 SB, Under 10HR?
do you realize what a drop off that is from his past few years? it's not an off year, it's a ridiculous fall off of a cliff.
If they got him, why should we have expected a jump back to normalcy? And if it IS his hip, what's to say he won't need surgery? and what's to say if he DOESN'T get surgery that his production stays where it is right now.
Too many questions before you trade Wheeler for him.
A ridiculous fall of of a cliff? His BA is the 3rd highest of his career. OBP is also the 3rd highest. The only stat that he is way down on is stolen bases.
SB 37>40>34 now SEVEN
HR 19>24>23 now EIGHT
that's power and speed.
if he was a .320 hitter, then your BA stat would be relevant. .262 BA really isn't a stat to hang his hat on.
Yes the stolen bases are way down but when you look at homeruns you have to look at the number of games he played in which is literally half or the previous season so of course he is going to have less homers.
Sources: #Orioles talking to #Brewers about Parra. Earlier, @LookoutLanding mentioned that RHP Zach Davies could go to MIL.
Its cool man but I tend to agree with him. Gomez is a power/speed guy and both of those most crucial numbers are down. Hitting .260 without pop doesn't mean a whole lot.
the numbers that refer to a lower body injury are way off.
if you don't agree that his power and speed numbers are way off, that's fine. but if you do think they are, there is a direct correlation between speed/power and lower body.
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He said his numbers are way off and they clearly are not that was the point of my post.
Its cool man but I tend to agree with him. Gomez is a power/speed guy and both of those most crucial numbers are down. Hitting .260 without pop doesn't mean a whole lot.
Yeah I wasn't arguing to suggest they should have made the trade I was just pointing out a very incorrect statement that all of his numbers were dramatically down.
I'm just saying, from here, I can see where they may have looked close at his medical records and had 2nd thoughts.
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In comment 12395031 Jay on the Island said:
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In comment 12395020 feelflows said:
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In comment 12395007 arcarsenal said:
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In comment 12394999 Shecky said:
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Look at the final Brewers - Astros trade. And compare it to what the Mets Brewers trade was going to be. I've been screaming for the Mets to work a deal with the Astros for Phillips for weeks now. So I like him a LOT. But, that was an absolutely horrible trade for the Brewers. Especially in comparison to what they were going to get from the Mets. Let the dust settle, this isn't a homerism rant, just reality.
Brewers panicked and got hosed.
I'd much prefer to have been the team that got Gomez for what the Astros just did rather than be the team that significantly lowered Gomez' value.
I know what Gomez has been.. but isn't it a red flag that he's had hip discomfort AND is batting .260, under 10 SB, Under 10HR?
do you realize what a drop off that is from his past few years? it's not an off year, it's a ridiculous fall off of a cliff.
If they got him, why should we have expected a jump back to normalcy? And if it IS his hip, what's to say he won't need surgery? and what's to say if he DOESN'T get surgery that his production stays where it is right now.
Too many questions before you trade Wheeler for him.
A ridiculous fall of of a cliff? His BA is the 3rd highest of his career. OBP is also the 3rd highest. The only stat that he is way down on is stolen bases.
SB 37>40>34 now SEVEN
HR 19>24>23 now EIGHT
that's power and speed.
if he was a .320 hitter, then your BA stat would be relevant. .262 BA really isn't a stat to hang his hat on.
Yes the stolen bases are way down but when you look at homeruns you have to look at the number of games he played in which is literally half or the previous season so of course he is going to have less homers.
Still down though. At best your saying he'll hit 15-16 HR then. He hit 24 last year. He's actually on pace to hit 12 playing the "majority" of the season. He only missed two weeks.
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In comment 12395046 Jay on the Island said:
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He said his numbers are way off and they clearly are not that was the point of my post.
Its cool man but I tend to agree with him. Gomez is a power/speed guy and both of those most crucial numbers are down. Hitting .260 without pop doesn't mean a whole lot.
Yeah I wasn't arguing to suggest they should have made the trade I was just pointing out a very incorrect statement that all of his numbers were dramatically down.
Gotcha.
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He said his numbers are way off and they clearly are not that was the point of my post.
the numbers that refer to a lower body injury are way off.
if you don't agree that his power and speed numbers are way off, that's fine. but if you do think they are, there is a direct correlation between speed/power and lower body.
I agreed that his speed numbers were way off but his power numbers weren't when you look at the number of at bats. He has 8 homers in 314 at bats. Last year he had 23 in 644 at bats so of course he is going to have a lot less when he has literally less than half the number of at bats than last season.
Sources: #Mets trying to land #Reds Bruce. Also exploring other options. Wheeler most likely would go to CIN and maybe one other piece.
flores
oh wait that was last night
Regarding #Orioles, Parra: Doubtful that offer of Davies would be enough. #Brewers setting high price on Parra; top 10 in NL in BA, SLG.
Come on dude. Seriously? Don't you start too. Im going off of abats. He hit 24 homeruns in 644 atbats last year. He's hit 8 homeruns in 314 abats this year or roughly half. He's well off his mark from last season.
Source confirms: #DBacks awaiting word on proposal to #Reds for Chapman. First reported: @JonHeymanCBS.
Heard a week ago #Mets #Reds had talked Bruce, Wheeler. Feeling now is prob would take Wheeler and another piece to get Bruce
Think about Wheeler this way: Pitches in July 2016. Big-time innings limit 2017. So you're waiting until 2018 for 200 innings.
Think about Wheeler this way: Pitches in July 2016. Big-time innings limit 2017. So you're waiting until 2018 for 200 innings.
that's fine, but no matter what way you cut it he's their #5 starter.
they don't need him to be a savior.
IF they don't trade Wheeler, I'm fine with that. They can't have enough pitchers. Hopefully the days of Gee/Figeroa and company are gone. (Even though I bitched about Dickey being on the staff, woops lol)
yeah, that deal has turned out badly so far
hoping he can become an asset coming off the bench
The optimist says maybe they learned their lesson.
The pessimist says you were dumb enough to give up a 1st round pick and rely on a catastrophically injury prone plsyer.
Jay Bruce no-trade list, per source: NYY, BOS, OAK, TB, MIA, MIN, TOR, ARZ. Can not block deal to Mets.
He has really come on after struggling a bit after being injured. The bat is legit. He just has to cut down on the errors (25 so far)
Why? Because Mets aren't on it? lol
obviously, he grew up an Orioles fan and hates the scolding hot weather? lol
It really is, lol
Three big buyers that are still active: #Astros (RP?), #BlueJays (SP? LF?), #Dodgers (SP?).
What about the Mets, Ken
Also, a hitter under control for next year (like Bruce) has been far preferable to Alderson than rental. Bruce def sometime to watch here
Three big buyers that are still active: #Astros (RP?), #BlueJays (SP? LF?), #Dodgers (SP?).
What about the Mets, Ken
Buyers probably means willing to take on money and not need the other team to help
2B Murphy
1B Duda
C d'Arnaud
RF Bruce
3B Uribe
LF Conforto
SS Tejada
P Pitcher
Swap Uribe with Wright the end of August and spell Conforto against tough lefties with Cuddyer. Boom.
Link - ( New Window )
He's been a gold glove finalist in the past and he has a gun for an arm.
Link - ( New Window )
Think teams are pulling an all nighter. This is the last night lol.
Conforto is the future he isn't the now. You don't acquire a Bruce to platoon or sit Grandy who is our best hitter. The rookie takes a back seat. It's not ideal but that's how it has to be. I'd return Conforto to the minor to play everyday. He'll be back in a month anyway.
4pm EDT
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I like Bruce a lot and he has a cannon arm but I don't think he's quite that good in the field.
He's been a gold glove finalist in the past and he has a gun for an arm. Link - ( New Window )
I don't get to see a ton of Reds games.. I've seen him make nice plays but the metrics don't seem to really reflect that. I can't stand defensive metrics, though. So.. there's that.
They just don't have the horses this season. Their bullpen is falling apart now.
Hopefully next season will be the real deal.
They just don't have the horses this season. Their bullpen is falling apart now.
Hopefully next season will be the real deal.
Wouldn't get crazy about the bullpen just yet.
Familia wasn't going to continue having a Mariano-type season. He has to work through this. Clippard will settle in, and there are arms in there pitching well.
To be clear I wasn't knocking him. I just meant his defense is mostly based on his arm. His range was better in his youth. He's more than fine out there. Granderson every day in CF is going to be another story.
Middle Infielder
Steady Reliever
???
Probably begging the Reds to pay as much of his contract as possible.
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1 reason #Mets are willing to include Wheeler in trade talks is emergence of a healthy Michael Fulmer. Scouts who have seen say Fulmer
Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 9m9 minutes ago
Is 96-97 mph, wipeout slider, still developing change. Works both sides of plate. Throws inside. High praise from many #Mets
I wish the mets wouldnt be so cheap with negotiations, asking for money back
Gap to bridge between #mets #reds last night involved whether Wheeler enough. "Should b interesting" said 1 official of today. Still talking
Keep hearing #Padres having difficulty moving Shields/Kemp/JUpton and ownership wants cut payroll.
Keep hearing #Padres having difficulty moving Shields/Kemp/JUpton and ownership wants cut payroll.
Well they can ask for lesser prospects. Anyways, the Mets wont take on the expensive contracts without money back so it wont work.
The Wilpons are all about money, and winning is second
We tried for the CF (Gomez, Parra) and SS (Tulo) and failed to get a deal done. This is the best we're going to do now. It'd still be a good get.
I think Bruce is a 2015 upgrade and maybe with his reasonable contract we can move him and recoup part of the Wheeler cost to acquire him if Conforto is raking so bad we can't keep him in the minors anymore.
Even if Conforto goes back down now, he'll be Sept. call up anyway.
Player A: .255/.790 OPS/119 OPS+/16 HR/125 wRC+ from RF
Player B: .257/.827/125/17/123 from RF.
One is Jay Bruce, the Curtis Granderson
On the other hand, in a good year he'll get to 150Ks and not be a high average hitter.
I think I'm just being a picky B-R.com reader. In the current environment for baseball, a power bat like this is a pretty rare commodity to have available.
But obviously it's 99% likely he'd be a pure rental vs. 3 years of Bruce. I think Bruce is a damn good player, just think he and Duda are really really similar in both good ways and bad ones.
And essentially "doubling" what Granderson is giving us right now is a good thing, not a bad thing. Bruce is quite a bit younger than Granderson and is a bit better overall anyway.
My only issue would be fitting in Conforto, Bruce, and Granderson next year without playing Curtils 100+ games in center. But hey we want to go for it now and im sure we could always look to move Bruce in the winter if we were that worried bout it.
Even if Conforto goes back down now, he'll be Sept. call up anyway.
I don't think using Conforto as a 4th OF really makes sense at this stage in his career. This is a kid who we think is going to rake, and sooner rather than later. I want him getting max ABs. Sept. callup is fine, and I think in 2015, sending Conforto back to AA is fine, I guess I just don't see how it works for us in 2015.
Trading Granderson (and maybe selling high based on the increasingly good year he's having) might be possible but he's been our best lineup regular this year and the return would be minimal given his contract and age.
The Gomez fiasco was enormously deflating to this organization in combination with the blown saves & 2 losses to Pads. Not impossible to come back from, but they need to win 2/3 this weekend in the worst way. Losing more ground to the Nats and taking the gut punches they've taken the last 48 hours might be the straw that breaks the camels back.
Source: Astros have some interest in Rays' relievers Boxberger, McGee and Jepsen, though nothing serious at this time.
Wonder if the Mets have any interest in the Rays RP. Doubt they would be cheap though.
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Joe Giglio
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Since 2008, only 4 OF in MLB have more HR than Jay Bruce. If the Mets land him for a SP coming off Tommy John, it's a no-brainer
We tried for the CF (Gomez, Parra) and SS (Tulo) and failed to get a deal done. This is the best we're going to do now. It'd still be a good get.
The point really shouldn't be does he make them a little better or not. The point should be if you are going to trade a guy like Wheeler is this who you use him for? IMO Bruce is not worth trading a top trading piece for. Save trading Wheeler for something better. After all this time waiting to build the team right around this young staff don't make panic trades at this point and settle for average return for your top prospects.
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Joe Giglio
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Since 2008, only 4 OF in MLB have more HR than Jay Bruce. If the Mets land him for a SP coming off Tommy John, it's a no-brainer
2015 GAB and Citifield have had very similar HR rates.
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Bruce makes the Mets a better team right now and it's not even debatable. We aren't getting Wheeler's best until 2017 and the emergence of Fulmer is playing a large role in this.
We tried for the CF (Gomez, Parra) and SS (Tulo) and failed to get a deal done. This is the best we're going to do now. It'd still be a good get.
The point really shouldn't be does he make them a little better or not. The point should be if you are going to trade a guy like Wheeler is this who you use him for? IMO Bruce is not worth trading a top trading piece for. Save trading Wheeler for something better. After all this time waiting to build the team right around this young staff don't make panic trades at this point and settle for average return for your top prospects.
This isn't a panic trade. We need offense and Bruce is signed through 2017. Wheeler is unlikely to even provide much until then.
Who do you suggest dealing Wheeler for? We're not getting a better player than Bruce if Wheeler is the main piece.
The emergence of Fulmer is likely the reason for the org viewing Wheeler as more expendable now. We still have a lot of pitching.
#Mets & #Reds are "pretty far along" on Jay Bruce deal, doing "due diligence on medicals" per @AdamRubinESPN. Latest: http://bit.ly/1MXsCAN
Lets get this done so we can all feel good again.
Lets get this done so we can all feel good again.
Clear upgrade, not old, great contract. I do reserve the right to change my view if the "other pieces" are something really bad but on it's face Wheeler and Bruce? No-brainer for me.
Must say I'm really worried about this trade. Looks like it'll happen which is great I guess, but I think the second piece will be significant and it'll be tied to getting money back. It won't change the larger narrative. I hope he helps but we will lose something with brandy in center.
Ill be very happy. Im getting nervous about second pieces though.
Quote:
get! Dan's original target!
Lets get this done so we can all feel good again.
Clear upgrade, not old, great contract. I do reserve the right to change my view if the "other pieces" are something really bad but on it's face Wheeler and Bruce? No-brainer for me.
What if its Nimmo? Think I d be a little bummed. Im sure you'll be fine though. ;)
This is where the Mets can prove that the "flexibility" is either there or isn't. If they force CIN to eat money and give up more for it, there's really no denying anymore than finances are still handicapping this franchise pretty badly.
From what I understand a little money isn't changing the prospects all that much. Most GMs identify players they like in a trade. If they stings a little, the other team will often ask for a little money to offset it. Now if the Reds are taking on a HUGE amount of money? Thats totally different. But a million or two isn't changing the prospect package all that much IMO.
Com'on, whatever happens today is hardly a defining moment unless they land a bonafide star (which Bruce isn't).
It can be top 10. Somebody like Gsellman and Im fine.
I'm not a huge fan of any overall defensive metrics, but I did think the catch distribution from Inside Edge might be relevant here:
Curtis Granderson (mostly RF)
Routine (90-100%) - 98.9% (184 chances)
Likely (60-90%) - 100% (4 chances)
Even (40-60%) - 0% (1 chance)
Unlike (10-40%) - 0% (2 chances)
Remote (1-10%) - 0% (6 chances)
Impossible (0%) - 0% (37 chances)
Carlos Gomez (mostly CF)
Routine (90-100%) - 100% (157 chances)
Likely (60-90%) - 57.1% (7 chances)
Even (40-60%) - 0% (0 chances)
Unlikely (10-40%) - 0% (0 chances)
Remote (1-10%) - 0% (8 chances)
Impossible (0%) - 0% (35 chances)
Obviously sample size is an issue, but the biggest take away for me is that neither player has made any plays that far out of their zone this season whereas both made several in 2014. In 2014 Granderson made 3 "unlikely" plays and 4 "even" plays. Gomez made 2 "remote" plays and 1 "even" play.
Also this year Jay Bruce has made more unlikely (1) and even plays (3) than both. Though obviously Gomez has logged the majority of his plays in a tougher position. With Lagares on the bench as a late game sub I really think Granderson to CF is a viable option.
if the Mets trade for Bruce, I'd be all for
Bruce
Lagares
Granderson
Conforto is going to be a great hitter, and he may already be. That being said, they need a glove in CF.
if the Mets trade for Bruce, I'd be all for
Bruce
Lagares
Granderson
Conforto is going to be a great hitter, and he may already be. That being said, they need a glove in CF.
That's what it's going to be. No doubt if they get Bruce, Conforto is going to Vegas
But I think Bruce will be an upgrade over Conforto the rest of the season and hopefully next year the Mets can trade Granderson and go with Bruce and Conforto in the corners along with a surgeried Lagares.
Just send him back down, let him get ABs.
If it was straight up they wouldn't have had to be working late on it. They're working on money for extra prospects.
I'm not a huge fan of any overall defensive metrics, but I did think the catch distribution from Inside Edge might be relevant here:
.
Can't speak for Gomez but those stats aren't correct for Grandy as I've seen at least five ball he let drop which should be considered likely for him and routine for others.
If Conforto is hitting great, then you have a quandry, but likely a good one. If not and balls are falling in often, you put Lagares back in a little more rested and send the kid down.
Quote:
but..
if the Mets trade for Bruce, I'd be all for
Bruce
Lagares
Granderson
Conforto is going to be a great hitter, and he may already be. That being said, they need a glove in CF.
That's what it's going to be. No doubt if they get Bruce, Conforto is going to Vegas
I'd keep him up until Cuddyer is healthy.
It's not like the Mets bench is stacked lol
Agreed, and its the elephant in the room right now. He still has a great approach and works the count. You can tell he will be a good hitter, but it just might not be this year. Interested to see how long of a leash he has. A lot has to do with what happens today at the deadline and Cuddy coming back.
[quote] I genuinely believe he will get better reads there (his biggest deficiency in RF IMO) and his arm at this point is same as Lagares (his 2nd biggest deficiency in RF).
/quote]
I give up lol
Quote:
for Bruce seems reasonable. If we give up a major second piece and we also receive significant cash in return, Mets' fans will have a right to be furious at the Wilpons.
If it was straight up they wouldn't have had to be working late on it. They're working on money for extra prospects.
I can't see how Wheeler alone gets Bruce.
If Conforto is hitting great, then you have a quandry, but likely a good one. If not and balls are falling in often, you put Lagares back in a little more rested and send the kid down.
I'm with you, I'd try it. I don't think this is anywhere near as "experimental" or weird as putting Murphy or Duda in LF. Granderson has logged thousands of MLB innings in CF.
No, it's not ideal and there's going to be a clear dropoff from Lagares but if he's not "butcher" bad, it could be worth it.
If it doesn't work out, send Conforto back for a few weeks and bring him back up in Sept. We can sort out 2016 this winter.
Dont see the harm in trying it. Granderson didn't embarrass himself in CF last year the few times he was there. If its really bad, you go back to Lagares/Kirk.
the same idiots are making a big deal today about the Mets asking for money as a reason why the Gomez deal didn't go on.
I would LOVE for this Bruce deal to go down to watch them speechless.
I see. IMO, Gomez is damaged goods.
I'm not really excited for any of these players as i think the Mets need a bonafide #3 hitter and everybody they've looked at isn't that. I'd be happier with a Bruce than Gomez b/c he adds some pop yet no way I'm offering more than Wheels and low level prospect.
Personally, i prefer Wheels in a package for a better player than any of these guys the media has shown interest in (Tulo was too costly and risky IMO and Gomez has something wrong with his leg i think). I like Bruce more than the others but for a ransom and i think Wheels is pretty close to a ransom for a .250 hitter with pop.
pssht.. it just means they missed the boat to get him on the cheap last year ;)
Yes he's had one awful year in the last five. It happens. Bruce is very streaky so we need to be aware of it but he's having a great "typical Bruce" season in 2015.
Nope. He'll still be 34 at the start of the 2016 season. He's really not THAT old.
Steve Gelbs @SteveGelbs 1m1 minute ago
RE: Bruce - Overall numbers may not jump off page. Got off to brutal start tho. Since 5/22 (59 GP): .295 BA, .916 OPS, 10 HR, 40 RBI. #Mets
The Mets docs are the best at ruining players
Source: #Orioles closing in on #Brewers Parra. Deal expected to be Parra for RHP Zack Davies, straight up.
Brittany Ghiroli
Brittany Ghiroli retweeted Ken Rosenthal
Interesting- would indicate Brewers price changed. Was thought to be not enough yesterday. Brittany Ghiroli added,
Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal
Source: #Orioles closing in on #Brewers Parra. Deal expected to be Parra for RHP Zack Davies, straight up.
Orioles have deal to acquire parra pending physicals
Joel Sherman
Heard #Mets may not be issue with Bruce, #Reds have to be comfortable with Wheeler (player coming back from TJ) as main piece
Parra is a rental, usually harder to get a better return.
Bruce v. Gomez, I like Bruce. More predictable production and we have him under control longer.
Bruce makes $12m '15, $12.5m '16, $13m option/buyout '17. Or more than Carlos Gomez will earn. Mets could kill conspiracy theories w/ a deal
Bruce makes $12m '15, $12.5m '16, $13m option/buyout '17. Or more than Carlos Gomez will earn. Mets could kill conspiracy theories w/ a deal
Unless of course the Mets force the Reds to eat the difference.
When a deal is official I'll do my fistpumps.
Quote:
Buster Olney
Bruce makes $12m '15, $12.5m '16, $13m option/buyout '17. Or more than Carlos Gomez will earn. Mets could kill conspiracy theories w/ a deal
Unless of course the Mets force the Reds to eat the difference.
I don't see it like that. I see it as, next year when they lose Murphy/Colon/Parnell/Gee, they will replace them with inexpensive rookies.
There's a way for them to add Bruce and have a LOWER payroll next year.
Mets and Reds getting closer on Zack Wheeler, Jay Bruce swap
Link - ( New Window )
Really, the Mets are going to eat more money?? I would do that in a heartbeat. Can't have enough CF who can play defense.
Mets and Reds getting closer on Zack Wheeler, Jay Bruce swap Link - ( New Window )
he's not lying!! there's a picture of the Mets doctors reviewing the records
Quote:
may land in Toronto. If Granderson is really going to play CF how about Dickey and Pillar for Niese? Metrics love Pillar in CF and he has 15 steals, maybe a good option for late in the game for both Granderson and Conforto?
Really, the Mets are going to eat more money?? I would do that in a heartbeat. Can't have enough CF who can play defense.
I take that back, Dickey is a FA after this year. Salary dump-ish for the jays
He's close by ... Reds at home in Cincy
Quote:
may land in Toronto. If Granderson is really going to play CF how about Dickey and Pillar for Niese? Metrics love Pillar in CF and he has 15 steals, maybe a good option for late in the game for both Granderson and Conforto?
Really, the Mets are going to eat more money?? I would do that in a heartbeat. Can't have enough CF who can play defense.
More money? Niese is owed more than Dickey. FA after the year = clears 9 million
Pillar has been worth 2.1 WAR, is GREAT in CF (which is why you would be adding him, late innings for Granderson/Conforto) and has 15 steals. What does Granderson have to do with Pillar? The Mets would clear 9 million for next season as well.
"MLB is planning a meeting between Mets and Brewers management to discuss the relationship between the two teams and what happened Thursday night in their reported deal for Carlos Gomez, according to a tweet from MetsBlogs Matthew Cerrone (July 31, 10:45 am)."
I am really uncomfortable with Sandy Alderson and the Mets current relationship with other GMs. I know Boras can be difficult to deal with but it doesn't bode well for the Mets if the top agent in the league does not like how you operate. Furthermore, Is there a consequence for Sandys actions? Will other teams front office be hesitant to deal with Sandy and the Mets? The Mets backing out and now the rumors of it being financial is concerning to me. I thought I read that Tulowitzki would have refused a trade to the Mets. Why? (I know the Yankees are on Bruces list). Its a New York team. I get the feeling that this Bruce trade does not happen and if the Reds are asking too much, I am fine with that. I am wondering if the Mets and Sandy have now ostracized themselves from the league when it comes to effective trade talks. (Although, I believe Billy Beane had some kind words for his former colleague).
"MLB is planning a meeting between Mets and Brewers management to discuss the relationship between the two teams and what happened Thursday night in their reported deal for Carlos Gomez, according to a tweet from MetsBlogs Matthew Cerrone (July 31, 10:45 am)."
I am really uncomfortable with Sandy Alderson and the Mets current relationship with other GMs. I know Boras can be difficult to deal with but it doesn't bode well for the Mets if the top agent in the league does not like how you operate. Furthermore, Is there a consequence for Sandys actions? Will other teams front office be hesitant to deal with Sandy and the Mets? The Mets backing out and now the rumors of it being financial is concerning to me. I thought I read that Tulowitzki would have refused a trade to the Mets. Why? (I know the Yankees are on Bruces list). Its a New York team. I get the feeling that this Bruce trade does not happen and if the Reds are asking too much, I am fine with that. I am wondering if the Mets and Sandy have now ostracized themselves from the league when it comes to effective trade talks. (Although, I believe Billy Beane had some kind words for his former colleague).
I wouldnt treat it as a huge deal, Sandy's made plenty of trades with many teams over the years including transactions this season involving kirk, uribe/johnson, blevins, Clippard, and Alex Torres
"MLB is planning a meeting between Mets and Brewers management to discuss the relationship between the two teams and what happened Thursday night in their reported deal for Carlos Gomez, according to a tweet from MetsBlogs Matthew Cerrone (July 31, 10:45 am)."
I am really uncomfortable with Sandy Alderson and the Mets current relationship with other GMs. I know Boras can be difficult to deal with but it doesn't bode well for the Mets if the top agent in the league does not like how you operate. Furthermore, Is there a consequence for Sandys actions? Will other teams front office be hesitant to deal with Sandy and the Mets? The Mets backing out and now the rumors of it being financial is concerning to me. I thought I read that Tulowitzki would have refused a trade to the Mets. Why? (I know the Yankees are on Bruces list). Its a New York team. I get the feeling that this Bruce trade does not happen and if the Reds are asking too much, I am fine with that. I am wondering if the Mets and Sandy have now ostracized themselves from the league when it comes to effective trade talks. (Although, I believe Billy Beane had some kind words for his former colleague).
You are assuming wrongdoing here though. Deciding not to greenlight a trade because of medical concerns is a legitimate reason, and Boras trying to stand up for his client is totally fine too. It's in Boras' best interest to deny anything is wrong with Gomez.
This can't be financial. Gomez is on a value contract, and the Mets are now looking heavily at /near a deal for a MORE expensive player.
Mets and Reds getting closer on Zack Wheeler, Jay Bruce swap Link - ( New Window )
Its coming down to money
Quote:
But Niese is much better than Dickey and Granderson is MUCH better than Pillar. Id hate that deal.
Pillar has been worth 2.1 WAR, is GREAT in CF (which is why you would be adding him, late innings for Granderson/Conforto) and has 15 steals. What does Granderson have to do with Pillar? The Mets would clear 9 million for next season as well.
Your trading away arguably our top offensive weapon for a glove guy? I think they would have a lot to do with each other. Especially sine they'd be taking each other's spot in the OF. Regardless of the money freed up it makes us a worst team today and for this playoff run. I know its just a suggestion, but Im not a fan. All good.
LOL. Wow. I thought you were saying Granderson and Niese for Pillar and Dickey. My bad Dan. All over the place today.
Mets are looking at guys other than Jay Bruce. Heard they are focused in strictly on outfielders at this point.
And not that he needs the help, but Niese being successful makes Benigno look dumber. :-)
Yeah that make sense and would be fine.
I'd be just as excited about seeing Fulmer emerge and take that spot.
Well, you get two righties back with Wright and TDA.
Don't have specifics on other names but Mets are positioning themselves to go in several different directions. All to help outfield.
The Mets are going to shed $44M off of payroll next year with UFAs and Mejia suspension along:
Colon > not replace in starting rotation
Uribe > Wright
Clippard > Rookie
Murphy > Herrera
Parnell > Rookie
Blevins > Rookie (or re-sign)
Johnson > cheap utility sign or rookie
Mejia > Rookie
I know Duda is due a raise, but I still do not see a rise in salary next year even WITH Bruce.
The Mets are going to shed $44M off of payroll next year with UFAs and Mejia suspension along:
Colon > not replace in starting rotation
Uribe > Wright
Clippard > Rookie
Murphy > Herrera
Parnell > Rookie
Blevins > Rookie (or re-sign)
Johnson > cheap utility sign or rookie
Mejia > Rookie
I know Duda is due a raise, but I still do not see a rise in salary next year even WITH Bruce.
There's a lot of arbitration raises but then again you also might be trading Niese, Granderson, or trying to eat some of Cuddyer's contract to find a taker also.
in theory, you're spot on.
in reality, what position are they going to spend on???
Yeah I get it Dan. Apologies. Read it wrong.
Quote:
is a big deal, except for THIS year
The Mets are going to shed $44M off of payroll next year with UFAs and Mejia suspension along:
Colon > not replace in starting rotation
Uribe > Wright
Clippard > Rookie
Murphy > Herrera
Parnell > Rookie
Blevins > Rookie (or re-sign)
Johnson > cheap utility sign or rookie
Mejia > Rookie
I know Duda is due a raise, but I still do not see a rise in salary next year even WITH Bruce.
There's a lot of arbitration raises but then again you also might be trading Niese, Granderson, or trying to eat some of Cuddyer's contract to find a taker also.
Z, I get the arb thing.. but it doesn't come close to matching up with what's coming off of the books.
The Mets are going to shed $44M off of payroll next year with UFAs and Mejia suspension along:
Colon > not replace in starting rotation
Uribe > Wright
Clippard > Rookie
Murphy > Herrera
Parnell > Rookie
Blevins > Rookie (or re-sign)
Johnson > cheap utility sign or rookie
Mejia > Rookie
I know Duda is due a raise, but I still do not see a rise in salary next year even WITH Bruce.
Mets have 60 million committed + arbitration for Duda, Harvey, Familia, Tejada. Harvey+ Duda will eat up roughly 15, Familia around 5-6, Tejada about 3. You are also ignoring Cuddyer's salary goes up 4.5 million, Niese's goes up 2. Pre-Bruce trade they are already going to be over 85 million committed.
Mets are looking at guys other than Jay Bruce. Heard they are focused in strictly on outfielders at this point.
Marc Carig @MarcCarig 8m8 minutes ago
Don't have specifics on other names but Mets are positioning themselves to go in several different directions. All to help outfield.
Mets probably leaked this. Reds probably balking at sending money in the trade. lol
There is some speculation within the industry about a possible BOS/Cubs/Padres three-way blockbuster taking shape. Lots of pieces that fit.
Granderson 16
Cuddyer 12.5
Niese 9.05
Duda (currently 4.2, arbitration eligible)
Harvey (arbitration eligible)
Familia (arbitration eligible, all-star closer, Mejia got 2.9, Familia good bet for at leas 5)
Tejada (arb eligible, currently 1.88
Lagares 2.5 (raise of 2 million)
I suspect Mejia will be non-tendered
There is some speculation within the industry about a possible BOS/Cubs/Padres three-way blockbuster taking shape. Lots of pieces that fit.
Looks like shields and upton are being moved
After medical came back on Gomez, deal would have been made had Brewers given comp pick to even concerns
So we would have done the deal if we got a comp pick back? That's super frustrating to have it fall apart over something so minor. If it were a degenerative condition, blow it up, but if it's a minor injury they just wanted to be safe about this organization continues to shoot itself in the face over minutia. The comp pick wasn't worth all the negative momentum over the past 30 hours.
Granderson 16
Cuddyer 12.5
Niese 9.05
Duda (currently 4.2, arbitration eligible)
Harvey (arbitration eligible)
Familia (arbitration eligible, all-star closer, Mejia got 2.9, Familia good bet for at leas 5)
Tejada (arb eligible, currently 1.88
Lagares 2.5 (raise of 2 million)
I suspect Mejia will be non-tendered
isn't Mejia free? I'm assuming suspension means he doesn't get paid.
Why not keep him until his suspension is over and re-evaluate? It doesn't cost anything.
After medical came back on Gomez, deal would have been made had Brewers given comp pick to even concerns
So we would have done the deal if we got a comp pick back? That's super frustrating to have it fall apart over something so minor. If it were a degenerative condition, blow it up, but if it's a minor injury they just wanted to be safe about this organization continues to shoot itself in the face over minutia. The comp pick wasn't worth all the negative momentum over the past 30 hours.
conversation could've been:
"he's obviously injured and won't fully help our club THIS YEAR, but it will heal enough for next year.. to supplement this, we would like a comp"
makes sense.
After medical came back on Gomez, deal would have been made had Brewers given comp pick to even concerns
So we would have done the deal if we got a comp pick back? That's super frustrating to have it fall apart over something so minor. If it were a degenerative condition, blow it up, but if it's a minor injury they just wanted to be safe about this organization continues to shoot itself in the face over minutia. The comp pick wasn't worth all the negative momentum over the past 30 hours.
That's yet another opinion. Who knows where he heard that from. Could very well be Milwaukee's side. Im not believing any of it and moving on. Bruce is making a lot more money than Gomez was.
I'm told that while Mets could add something else (ie a reliever), it would be secondary piece. The clear focus is on an outfielder.
2. He's playing every day & even though not up to his full potential we still badly wanted him prior to medical review. So not buying this.
I'd have traded for Gomez if there's confidence he can still reach his full potential, I understand objecting if it's degenerative or requires surgery. Seems more like we were just haggling without any definitive info one way or the other.
I know! Thats who I have a boner for but its a 2 month rental. Bruce makes more sense long term actually.
Cingrani walks a ton of guys, is he more of a loogy?
And you never know with the pitchers, they can get injured.
Its good to have backup starters who are competent
Quote:
I wish I understood why cespedes isn't in the conversation more. I like that he's a pure rental. Should be much cheaper in price given he can't be hit with the QO. Want a righty bat. Tigers are clearly selling. Could it really be the right field thing? Find that super strange.
I know! Thats who I have a boner for but its a 2 month rental. Bruce makes more sense long term actually.
Dude, nobody actually says "boner" anymore. Weirdo.
Lol
Reds have said Hoover is unavailable. Groomed to replace Chapman. Not a FA until after 2018. If you are getting Hoover you are giving up another very solid prospect so pass.
I would much rather the went after Upton than Bruce.
I hope Sandy really goes for it and makes that happen and doesn't settle for what I fear would be a big disappointment in Bruce.
Quote:
of an upside play but I like Cingrani, said so on twitter and he started following me lol. Hoover isn't obtainable, Diaz wouldn't be terrible but he's basically only usable vs. lefties. Not much there, no.
Cingrani walks a ton of guys, is he more of a loogy?
I actually still think he can be a starter but yeah better vs, lefties.
Robert Brender 2m
Michael Fulmer since June 12: 9 starts, 0.67 era, 4 earned runs in 53 innings, 61 strikeouts.
The last 2 days were such massive kicks to the nuts that I actually wouldn't be surprised if we completely whiffed and wound up with nothing more than a spare part or a BP arm.
Robert Gsellman's last 4 starts: 26.1 IP, 6 hits, 2 ER, 0.69 ERA.
Was told the Mets have "multiple" things going on in trade discussions at the moment.
No excuse and they should have won that last game regardless but in my gut I think that if it had never rained they would have won that game easily. They lost all the momentum and it was a fresh start for SD and things sometime just happen.
After the whole Beltran fiasco, maybe Jeff was afraid Boras would advise Gomez to have hip surgery, so that he would be healthy heading into free agency
I think what happened is that with a 7-1 lead, Terry decided to give guys work in the pen in a non-pressure situation to keep them sharp or with Parnell work out the kinks.
Probably not a bad idea but it just mushroomed on him.
Ironically, if Mets were ahead 2-1 or 3-1, he probably would have left Niese in and then gone Clippard and Familia, and the Mets likely would have won,
Dont get too excited. The Mets are experts at disappointing their fans
My understanding is #Mets have at least CONSIDERED Cespedes. Doesn't mean it was serious talk, but sounds like they're exploring everything.
My understanding is #Mets have at least CONSIDERED Cespedes. Doesn't mean it was serious talk, but sounds like they're exploring everything.
They have 4 hours to make something happen. Looks like they might not get Bruce after all
Also sounds like the Mets are discussing potential bullpen help.
Quote:
They lost to the Pads 2 out of 3 at home
I think what happened is that with a 7-1 lead, Terry decided to give guys work in the pen in a non-pressure situation to keep them sharp or with Parnell work out the kinks.
Probably not a bad idea but it just mushroomed on him.
Ironically, if Mets were ahead 2-1 or 3-1, he probably would have left Niese in and then gone Clippard and Familia, and the Mets likely would have won,
Niese wasn't good in the 6th. We were probably seeing a reliever in the 7th. No one out of the ordinary was used.
The closer this team comes to approaching respectability the more he is exposed with his questionable decisions. He's costing us critical games in a playoff race.
He's also awful in a press conference and with the media. What is the upside to having this loser as our manager? I didn't get extending him at the time, still don't and never will.
The closer this team comes to approaching respectability the more he is exposed with his questionable decisions. He's costing us critical games in a playoff race.
He's also awful in a press conference and with the media. What is the upside to having this loser as our manager? I didn't get extending him at the time, still don't and never will.
He was probably the most affordable, from the bargain bin of managers
"well..we feel with Blevins coming back, we are getting a player back better than what we could trade for"
- generic answer
I just asked an executive point blank if Upton remains possible. "Anybody," came the response. So yeah, #Mets casting a wide net indeed.
Not me.
Mets working on multiple fronts, and could add two bats. Remains possible, wouldn't say likely.
And to be clear, Jay Bruce still the most serious target and teams are pretty far along.
Rory : 12:29 pm : link : reply
already agreed on pending physicals and the Mets are positioning themselves for a plan B & C
Bravo!
Yeah you're right. Sadly they've been bucked and landed on their face most of the time.
He plays CF
He can bat lead off or ninth
He is LH, so he can switch off with Lagares
Hit over 300 last year and batting 298 this year
He has one more arbitration year before free agency
He is a very good base stealer
Seems like he fits a lot of the criteria the Mets are looking for. Obviously Bruce is a better hitter but is Revere a fall back option?
sucks defensively, no pop and doesn't walk. singles or nothing offensively
Sources: Possible #Mets could actually trade for 2 hitters today www.nydailynews.com
Sources: Possible #Mets could actually trade for 2 hitters today www.nydailynews.com
I could be a billionaire too
Jerry CrasnickVerified account
@jcrasnick
Hearing the Jay Bruce talks may have lost momentum. #Reds having second thoughts about #Mets trade package.
Bob Nightengale 1m
The #Mets concerns with #Reds Bruce is not only his salary, but vast inconsistencies at the plate.
yep. Not surprised.
Let's hope Wright is ready to rake when he returns
Link - ( New Window )
Joel Sherman 2m
#Mets are talking lots of scenarios and believe they will get bat(s)
Beat Writer / Columnist
At this point Im guessing cheap. Commercial real estate has roared back. But either way -- cheap or poor -- they shouldnt continue to own and operate a NYC baseball team like this.
Woooo hoooo Wilpons!
interesting
I hate the Mets PR department. Just do or don't do a trade. Don't knock the players to make yourself look "good". We can all see through it.
He had an outlier HORRENDOUS season where he had knee surgery, came back in 17 days and now is having another year EXACTLY in line with his career numbers. You don't think it's a pretty fair bet the knee was the issue? What are the valid concerns? He had one bad season? He's back to what he was. Bandbox means nothing, Citifeld is average 1.268 homers per game, GAB 1.37 and that's with the Mets horrendous lineup. He's the OPPOSITE of inconsistent. He's exactly consistent. More so than most players in baseball. 250+ 340+ 90+ 25+ every single season.
mets greatest concern is lagares in CF. so rajai davis & venable could work. but upton/cespedes more lineup impact.
Could you imagine if they got upton and cespedes. That would be insane. Of course Davis and Venable is 9000 times more likely.
2015: +116
2014: -63 (overall terrible season)
2013: -112
2012: +244
2011: +54
2010: +234
2009: +279
2008: +256
Career: +102
Looks like over his first 5 seasons there was a massive pro-home split. But last 3 years? Mild pro-road. Draw your own conclusions.
mets greatest concern is lagares in CF. so rajai davis & venable could work. but upton/cespedes more lineup impact.
Could you imagine if they got upton and cespedes. That would be insane. Of course Davis and Venable is 9000 times more likely.
He means one or the other. No way we'd acquire both. Literally no chance.
Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal 2m2 minutes ago
#Mets talking to #Tigers about Cespedes, sources tell me and @jonmorosi. One of their many options.
Even if it's the latter (and I'm not saying it is), then they need to sell the team to someone who will properly invest in this team. Period. They play in the biggest market and their payroll is laughable...
@JimBowden_ESPN
Put your seat belts on there will be a flurry of trades that are done but won't be announced until final hour according to several GMs
GAB is 14th in doubles per game, CitiField 8th
Bruce is going to wilt offensively in CitiField? Based on what?
Jerry CrasnickVerified account
@jcrasnick
Hearing the Jay Bruce talks may have lost momentum. #Reds having second thoughts about #Mets trade package.
Not surprising. Anyone really believe Alderson can pull off a big bat trade? The one time he did, he got cold feet and reneged.
The issue is calling him "inconsistent". If that's the case so is David Wright who also had a bad year (2011), then so are numerous players. Inconsistent is flat false. 1 bad season where you have knee surgery now gives you an inconsistent label?
Mets are talking to the Tigers about Yoenis Cespedes justmets.mlblogs.com twitter.com
No, not with this franchise you can't. :)
What's the most you would offer for him? Give us a trade scenario.
What's the most you would offer for him? Give us a trade scenario.
1. I'd 100% give the Gomez package without thinking twice
2. If we are assuming Wheeler is 100% in the deal then I wouldn't give up any of Smith, Cecchini, Fulmer or Nimmo. I'd waffle on Rosario, I'd absolutely give Montero (despite being a fan). I'd be open to any other name.
Torrag,
100% mean this non-snarkily but I think you keep missing my qualifiers... I'm saying IF the issue is the Mets are calling out his "inconsistency" AND "I can't judge it without seeing the second piece". 1 for 1 I do that trade and really like it. Second piece matters but "inconsistent" is simply not fair.
This is all part of the game. The Mets leak information as a ploy to get the Reds nervous. They say they are in on "many" bats. They knew all about Bruce's numbers long before entering a negotiation. And he might be the target all along.
Bring him in, sign him and let him play LF for however long. Conforto looks like a good young talent but we don't need to rely on him this season. Send him down and let him develop outside of a pennant race.
This offseason or next, we can worry about the makeup of the OF and maybe try to move Grandy along to open up RF for Conforto.
I'd start my offer to Detroit with Wheeler and Nimmo, what else would it take? I'd definitely listen to Detroit.
I think they could sign Cespedes. He probably only costs an extra 5 million a year or so then Bruce annually. But Ill worry about that next year.
Just gotta take a step back and take everything with a grain of salt.
These reporters are like MLB hitters. Even the best ones only put out legitimate, useful information about 3 out of every 10 times.
Especially when daddy built the business and shows up at your casino with briefcases full of cash.
Trump is a guy born on 3rd who thinks he hit a home run. Fred Trump built that company. And very quietly.
Moreover, MLB didnt do anything about this:
I'm told Nationals do NOT have interest in Detroit OF Yoenis Cespedes.
Retweeted by Buster Olney
ZGiants98 : 2:03 pm : link : reply
Engaging in these deals to prove a point to the fans.
But the only way to change the perception is for the Wilponsi led Mets to actually do something to significantly take on payroll at the deadline. If they get shut out they will and deserve to hear about it until they make it happen.
#Mets still having talks on multiple outfield bats, sources say.
#Mets still discussing Yoenis Cespedes with the #Tigers, sources say.
or anything else.
Now Sherman reporting the "optimism is down" about landing a bat.
Question.. will you guys be able to stomach watching the game tonight if we get fed the "we tried but couldn't find a match" and nothing gets done?
It's such a huge game but I honestly don't know if I can.
He's not completely wrong, plays same position as your best hitter and is a lefty instead of a righty. He's not the ideal fit but not the best either.
#Mets continue to add bat(s), but the optimism is down a bit from earlier today. Still 1:45 to get something done. Do think trying hard
Excellent question. Also wonder how willing the Mets are to trade something decent for a guy, fans "fall for" him and then the Mets let him walk unwilling to give him 130-150 million? Imagine the hammering they would take.
Now Sherman reporting the "optimism is down" about landing a bat.
Question.. will you guys be able to stomach watching the game tonight if we get fed the "we tried but couldn't find a match" and nothing gets done?
It's such a huge game but I honestly don't know if I can.
Why not? That's been the company line for years. Don't know if expect anything less, really.
Tigers have to trade Cespedes though. They can't offer him a QO.
mets are making a push for yoenis cespedes. would be big move.
"Cespedes
DanMetroMan : 2:22 pm : link : reply
would be a fun add but if they give up Wheeler for him I'm done for the rest of the season, you can quote me on that.
"
Lol... I thought I was the only one.
#Mets are talking on Cespedes, which also is U-turn. His low OBP they initially thought was bad mix for team-wide problem in that area
#Mets are talking on Cespedes, which also is U-turn. His low OBP they initially thought was bad mix for team-wide problem in that area
it's hilarious that this is an alderson team lol
Why would you quit for the rest of the year? Cespedes is a rental.
Quote:
would be a fun add but if they give up Wheeler for him I'm done for the rest of the season, you can quote me on that.
Why would you quit for the rest of the year? Cespedes is a rental.
? I'm saying IF they dealt Wheeler for Cespedes I'm taking a break from the Mets. Would be truly embarrassing/horrendous.
Quote:
would be a fun add but if they give up Wheeler for him I'm done for the rest of the season, you can quote me on that.
Why would you quit for the rest of the year? Cespedes is a rental.
metnut, I think that's the point. Wheeler for a 2 month rental is ridiculous.
It's so hard to believe ANY of this shit. 10 minutes from now, everyone will be tweeting that the Mets and Tigers can't find a match for Cespedes and talks are dead.
**BREAKING MLB NEWS**
Cespedes traded to Mets looks done...
Pending those medicals so lets hold on here
Quote:
would be a fun add but if they give up Wheeler for him I'm done for the rest of the season, you can quote me on that.
Why would you quit for the rest of the year? Cespedes is a rental.
I'm not big on Nimmo but I guess I'd do it. That said it's basically giving away a potential 6+ year regular for .5 year of a player.
Just venting....and waiting
**BREAKING MLB NEWS**
Cespedes traded to Mets looks done...
Pending those medicals so lets hold on here
Please don't post Incarcerated Bob bullshit. Why do people even follow this guy? He's a fucking hack with zero sources.
Wheeler for any rental would be pretty bad.
Best read in Cespedes at moment is mixed indications. Possible but also told nothing serious. 4pm we'll all know. Obviously evolving
It's so hard to believe ANY of this shit. 10 minutes from now, everyone will be tweeting that the Mets and Tigers can't find a match for Cespedes and talks are dead.
Team like the Reds aren't going to pay a lot of the contract for Bruce. You know thats what happened. Mets aren't willing to take on a lot of money. Its the elephant in the room
Quote:
for Cespedes would be Sandy shamed into a terrible move. I don't see it happening but I'd be absolutely furious and be taking a break.
Wheeler for any rental would be pretty bad.
Wouldn't it ultimately depend of they were able to retain him? If they gamble and lose him yes mistake but if they gamble and he ends up signing a new deal with the Mets maybe it ends up a great deal.
Mets making push to offset salary by including Niese in potential deal for OF, perhaps Cespedes. Tigers asking for Wheeler, obv.
Best read in Cespedes at moment is mixed indications. Possible but also told nothing serious. 4pm we'll all know. Obviously evolving
No trade is happening because the Mets want the other teams kick in money.
Mets making push to offset salary by including Niese in potential deal for OF, perhaps Cespedes. Tigers asking for Wheeler, obv.
Unreal. Again its all about the money. Shameful
I just think taking a break doesn't make a sense and you might as well enjoy the benefit of the rental by watching the team with the improved lineup and fighting for a playoff spot if we made the hypothetical overpayment. I totally get your sentiment on this though Dan.
Either way Cespedes is the biggest bat available this entire deadline. We all wanted a move to improve THIS team. If we bring in Cespedes Im going to be ecstatic. Ill worry about Cespedes in the offseason along with every other option out there.
Mets making push to offset salary by including Niese in potential deal for OF, perhaps Cespedes. Tigers asking for Wheeler, obv.
disgusting.. sad thing is, these "small market" teams are making moves to make them better.. the Mets need to ADD a starting pitcher to off-set salary (if true)
Assuming that they would want to sing him then by trading for him it gives them two benefits; first they get the help they need this season as they make a run, waiting until next season doesn't help them at all. Two it gives them an inside track on signing him.
All I'm saying is if they do trade for him the final judgment has to be withheld until we see the final outcome.
Quote:
@Dave_Gershman
Mets making push to offset salary by including Niese in potential deal for OF, perhaps Cespedes. Tigers asking for Wheeler, obv.
Unreal. Again its all about the money. Shameful
Well, it's on Twitter...
60 games left, I guess he's owed about $3.9M?
Wilpons suck! - ( New Window )
Upton can be offered the QO so in theory the Padres can hold onto him. Cespedes can't be.
Jim Bowden (FWIW) says he heard Bob Castellini blocked the Bruce-Wheeler trade.
The only thing that has me confident is the Tigers HAVE to trade Cespedes or they get nothing. It puts pressure on them too.
Sure, why not. That worked well for Knicks fans.
Went through that with the guy that tried to buy partial ownership.
The wilpons were so offended at the positive response of someone else owning the team they ran him off and backed out of the deal.
Friday #Mets vs. #Nats:
Grandy RF
Murphy 2B
Cespedes LF
Duda 1B
Uribe 3B
d'Arnaud C
Nieuwenhuis CF
Tejada SS
Harvey RHP
Friday #Mets vs. #Nats:
Grandy RF
Murphy 2B
Cespedes LF
Duda 1B
Uribe 3B
d'Arnaud C
Nieuwenhuis CF
Tejada SS
Harvey RHP
TROLL. lol
Its going to sting. Im guessing two prospects we like.
Grandy RF
Murphy 2B
Cespedes LF
Wright 3B
Duda 1B
d'Arnaud C
Lagares CF
Tejada SS
Harvey RHP
TDA
Cespedes
Duda
Wright
Murhy
Conforto
Tejada
@AdamRubinESPN
Asked #Mets person if optimistic or pessimistic about trade. Answer: "We are trying."
Asked #Mets person if optimistic or pessimistic about trade. Answer: "We are trying."
Same story every time.
Well your going to be sadly disappointed. We aren't getting the best bat on the market for nothing. lol
And as far as this year he is a MUCH bigger add then Gomez.
I know there are no guarantees and people could be hurt, but next year Thor will be up for the full season, as will Matz and Fulmer is waiting to replace someone who gets injured. Plus Conforto and Hererra have more time to be ready to contribute.
Tigers: So if you cant pay him, give us more or better prospects so we'll cover his salary.
Mets: No.
Impasse.
Except the whole world can see Gomez is playing injured. They had the ability to take on more risk than we did considering Wright and everything else. Its really pretty simple.
It's good for the soul.
'God created Arrakis the Mets to train the faithful'
Their leverage is that any team in baseball would add him for second tier prospects.
Trade for Clippard out of necessity because of Mejia.
Create and back out of a significant trade "for effect".
Work tirelessly to the deadline while accomplishing nothing, again to sell us all the bill of goods.
Tonight Alderson will tell you he like what they were able to do and wishes they could have done something more significant. He'll remind us all that TDA is back and that they are optimistic on DW.
Same old.
So there is little need to overpay when there is no guarantee they will make it to the dance. They aren't the Astros, Dodgers, Cardinals, Yanks that are already leading and trying to hold off other teams.
That would be amazing. I would do a cartwheel.
Whoa that's interesting if true.
Hearing it where?
100% Torrag.
Quote:
Cespedes
Hearing it where?
I like rosario a lot but cecchini kinda smoothes that over
They can take Rosario and marry him for all I care if it means we are getting Cespedes.
Would figure DET would want something closer to ML ready.
Quote:
In comment 12396576 brunswick said:
Quote:
Cespedes
Hearing it where?
I like rosario a lot but cecchini kinda smoothes that over
And there is a bizillion SS in the organization at the lower levels coming up behind him.
Mets are 3 out of the playoffs and buyers
Tigers are 3.5 out of the playoffs and sellers?
Mets are 3 out of the playoffs and buyers
Tigers are 3.5 out of the playoffs and sellers?
Cespedes is in a walk year and looking for big money.
For this year? Cespedes. Long term? Bruce.
Cause the Tigers can't get a draft pick for him so better to get something for him then lose him potentially for nothing.
Mets are 3 out of the playoffs and buyers
Tigers are 3.5 out of the playoffs and sellers?
Tigers are 11 out in the division and have to leapfrog 4 other teams for the wild card.
Mets are 3 out in the division and 4.5 out of the wild card but has to catch 2 other teams.
I wouldn't want to give up a major prospect for either, but I hate trading for Bruce so I would rather they gamble on Cespedes at that point.
If it were lower level prospects I would be OK with Bruce but still prefer the gamble with Cespedes
The Tigers are real close to trading Yoenis Cespedes, per @BNightengale. #Mets, #Angels and #WhiteSox all linked.
You mean how the Mets lost Reyes?
but isn't that failing your fanbase by giving up while 3.5 out?
The Tigers are real close to trading Yoenis Cespedes, per @BNightengale. #Mets, #Angels and #WhiteSox all linked.
If mets, angels, and white sox colluded, then the tigers won't get their prospect. But that's probably not happening.
Quote:
Cespedes is on the block because he can't be QO'd. Which means he walks and they get no compensation for him. Nothing. It's a clean break. That's bad asset management.
You mean how the Mets lost Reyes?
Mets got comp for Reyes. I think KPlaw.
Been in touch with rival exec who recently checked on asking price for Cespedes rental: expecting elite prospect.
Cecchini is getting pretty close. His bat has made some serious progress this year. He's got some fielding/throwing mechanics to work on but the bat really arrived this year.
Quote:
Cespedes is on the block because he can't be QO'd. Which means he walks and they get no compensation for him. Nothing. It's a clean break. That's bad asset management.
You mean how the Mets lost Reyes?
Mets did QO Reyes. Got Place kri and a Reynolds as comp.
Come on Deej. He is the one you can absolutely trade. We have to part with somebody. You prefer Fulmer, Nimmo, Cecchini, Smith, Conforto?? Lets be a bit realistic here.
Anyone know the answer to this?
Quote:
In comment 12396649 Torrag said:
Quote:
Cespedes is on the block because he can't be QO'd. Which means he walks and they get no compensation for him. Nothing. It's a clean break. That's bad asset management.
You mean how the Mets lost Reyes?
Mets did QO Reyes. Got Place kri and a Reynolds as comp.
Not Reynolds. It was Plawecki and what ended up being Ivan Wilson.
MLBRosterMoves
@MLBRosterMoves
The @Reds recall OF Kyle Waldrop.
Quote:
We dont have a long term solution yet at SS, and that's one of the toughest positions to BS your way through.
Come on Deej. He is the one you can absolutely trade. We have to part with somebody. You prefer Fulmer, Nimmo, Cecchini, Smith, Conforto?? Lets be a bit realistic here.
Assuming that what we're getting back is a fair return for each of these players (acknowledging they have different values), Fulmer and Smith are the ones I trade most quickly. Then probably Nimmo. Last is the SSs and Conforto.
I mean, what's the argument to trade Rosario while sitting on Fulmer? What are the chances we're hard up for a SS in 2-3 years? Same question about a front of rotation pitcher.
As far as 'failing your fan base' goes. I don't care when other teams fail their fans. Only when ours fails us. Which happens all too often. We're staring it right in the face again today if we can't get a bat to legitimize our playoff chances.
Three-way trade could have #Tigers moving Yoenis Cespedes and Rajai Davis, possibly. Mets, White Sox appear to be involved.
If you check Twitter, this is what all the comments are like.
One rival executive believes that Cespedes is going to the #Mets
Lol. We are all a bit nutty right now.
(LOL)
(LOL)
The #Whitesox were aggressive, but fell short, and now out of #Tigers Cespedes sweepstakes
Source says Cespedes has been dealt to the Mets .
If #Mets can get over the fact that Yoenis Cespedes had chicken pox as a child, he's going to New York. #Tigers
If your medical people advise you to nix the Gomez trade because they don't like what they see you respect that. You want to criticize their medical track record fine I understand. That's who he has to work with.
If the Reds think Bruce is worth more than the offer on the table that is their call not Sandy's.
The #Whitesox were aggressive, but fell short, and now out of #Tigers Cespedes sweepstakes
This guy is all over the board...
Jayson Stark just said on ESPN that Cespedes has been traded to the Mets.
If true that's exciting.
Playoff run here we come!
Re: Cespedes -- @JaysonT reports Mets get him
I will says this @MLBBruceLevine is an awesome baseball source--one of the best in biz-I'd trust him
Source: #Mets get Cespedes. Bruce Levine first.
Source: #Mets get Cespedes. Bruce Levine first.
Its going to sting. Im positive, but I doubt its Wheeler.
So what did we give up
cespedes goes to mets for two minor leaguers
cespedes goes to mets for two minor leaguers
Tigers insider tells me Cespedes is heading to Mets for two right handers.
better not be wheeler
better not be wheeler
better not be wheeler
better not be wheeler
mets kept wheeler
Tigers insider tells me Cespedes is heading to Mets for two right handers.
Uh oh. Fulmer and Gsellman?
Tigers insider tells me Cespedes is heading to Mets for two right handers.
That could mean Fulmer & Gsellman
The man who broke the Cespedes story: @MLBBruceLevine.
Is he Woodward or Bernstein.
Gsellman/Smoker would be laughable. The coup of the century.
Presume that's Fulmer: RT @HammerFox2: Fuller and Cessa are the players on receiving end for #Tigers in Cespedes deal.
Fuller and Cessa are the players on receiving end for #Tigers in Cespedes deal.
@HammerFox2
Fuller and Cessa are the players on receiving end for #Tigers in Cespedes deal.
The #Mets= worlds most annoying shopper-bought a CF,kept receipt,took him back,thought about Bruce,too expensive,got Cespedes on sale rack
But at least we have Harvey, Thor, and JDG.
Just love that Sandy finally showed us that hes got a pulse and took a risk. Whether it pans out or not, I cant fault him for making the move.
Smoker is a reclamation prospect but throws mid to high 90's from the left side. Killing it in AA right now but he's sorta old at 26.
Just love that Sandy finally showed us that hes got a pulse and took a risk. Whether it pans out or not, I cant fault him for making the move.
About 4 mil left on his contract from what i read, i wonder if the mets are actually going ot pick that up
Montero still has sore shoulder. But Matz is on the mend as well
Now fire Collins so he doesn't hold the team back.
I think this is an excellent trade, let's hope they do what's necessary when it's time to retain him.
It's the Mets. They set up an Uber ride.
Quote:
him up from Baltimore??
It's the Mets. They set up an Uber ride.
Acela is faster and cheaper, sandy would advise that.
BTW bing lost conforto, nimmo, and fulmer. They are probably going to struggle
Quote:
him up from Baltimore??
It's the Mets. They set up an Uber ride.
He must becoming tomorrow because no way the Wilpons are paying the surge pricing on a Friday night.
What a spectacular trade deadline for Sandy Alderson, acquiring four major contributors without giving up a big prospect or big-leaguer.
Scout on Fulmer recently says development has taken a jump. Won't be long until MLB ready. Legit mid rotation guy.
What a spectacular trade deadline for Sandy Alderson, acquiring four major contributors without giving up a big prospect or big-leaguer.
He did great. The team is much better than a week ago.
Quote:
Jared Diamond @jareddiamond
What a spectacular trade deadline for Sandy Alderson, acquiring four major contributors without giving up a big prospect or big-leaguer.
He did great. The team is much better than a week ago.
Fulmer is not a big prospect yet but if he continues like this, he will be
Of course there is the caveat of locking up Cespedes but let's worry about that in November. We have a pennant race to win.
Jacob DeGrom is the second-best pitcher in the NL right now.
Matt Harvey.
If Fulmer makes an all star team in the future, who cares.
Even with the injury, I think Wheeler's chances of being a frontline starter are better than Fulmer's.
How about Reyes?
Let me ask you this: Are you self-aware that you prioritize the present Mets over the future Mets much more than many posters here? It's not a criticism -- there is no right or wrong balance there. But at times you seem unable to even grasp why people are worried about what happens next, after the season is over.
Exactly!!! It's not doom and gloom and wait till next year anymore. Let's get into the dance and make a scene!!!
Im not necessarily for or against this trade. I was more worried about giving 2, 3, 4 important pieces. But my preference was to get pieces back that had some term on them.
Now fire Collins so he doesn't hold the team back.
How much does Cadaver cost to sit on the DL now?
Yes. For a Las Vegas 51's ticket.