Buster Olney & #8207;@Buster_ESPN 3m3 minutes ago
Reds willing to trade Jay Bruce to the Mets for Zack Wheeler now. Worth watching over the next 20 hours.
I'm over worrying about Conforto. He's fine to go back to the minors in 2015, and Bruce would likely be moveable next year if we were really that worried about things.
Chris Cotillo @ChrisCotillo 2m2 minutes ago
Source: Astros have some interest in Rays' relievers Boxberger, McGee and Jepsen, though nothing serious at this time.
Wonder if the Mets have any interest in the Rays RP. Doubt they would be cheap though.
Joe Giglio
@JoeGiglioSports
Since 2008, only 4 OF in MLB have more HR than Jay Bruce. If the Mets land him for a SP coming off Tommy John, it's a no-brainer
Bruce makes the Mets a better team right now and it's not even debatable. We aren't getting Wheeler's best until 2017 and the emergence of Fulmer is playing a large role in this.
We tried for the CF (Gomez, Parra) and SS (Tulo) and failed to get a deal done. This is the best we're going to do now. It'd still be a good get.
The point really shouldn't be does he make them a little better or not. The point should be if you are going to trade a guy like Wheeler is this who you use him for? IMO Bruce is not worth trading a top trading piece for. Save trading Wheeler for something better. After all this time waiting to build the team right around this young staff don't make panic trades at this point and settle for average return for your top prospects.
I always feel like adding talent is paramount. Let the position stuff sort out on its own. I think people get too worried about who slots in where. If we're too overcrowded, we can move someone this winter. Assets are assets.
Joe Giglio
@JoeGiglioSports
Since 2008, only 4 OF in MLB have more HR than Jay Bruce. If the Mets land him for a SP coming off Tommy John, it's a no-brainer
2015 GAB and Citifield have had very similar HR rates.
Bruce makes the Mets a better team right now and it's not even debatable. We aren't getting Wheeler's best until 2017 and the emergence of Fulmer is playing a large role in this.
We tried for the CF (Gomez, Parra) and SS (Tulo) and failed to get a deal done. This is the best we're going to do now. It'd still be a good get.
The point really shouldn't be does he make them a little better or not. The point should be if you are going to trade a guy like Wheeler is this who you use him for? IMO Bruce is not worth trading a top trading piece for. Save trading Wheeler for something better. After all this time waiting to build the team right around this young staff don't make panic trades at this point and settle for average return for your top prospects.
This isn't a panic trade. We need offense and Bruce is signed through 2017. Wheeler is unlikely to even provide much until then.
Who do you suggest dealing Wheeler for? We're not getting a better player than Bruce if Wheeler is the main piece.
The emergence of Fulmer is likely the reason for the org viewing Wheeler as more expendable now. We still have a lot of pitching.
"Medical due dilligence" is now going to be a Mets thing forever
MLB Trade Rumors @mlbtraderumors 36s36 seconds ago
#Mets & #Reds are "pretty far along" on Jay Bruce deal, doing "due diligence on medicals" per @AdamRubinESPN. Latest: http://bit.ly/1MXsCAN
Are going to be pissed, when they give up some of your favorites just so the Reds pay some of the contract. They're the big market team and are likely begging the small market team for money.
Clear upgrade, not old, great contract. I do reserve the right to change my view if the "other pieces" are something really bad but on it's face Wheeler and Bruce? No-brainer for me.
These past few days have been pretty fucking awful in the sports sense...
Must say I'm really worried about this trade. Looks like it'll happen which is great I guess, but I think the second piece will be significant and it'll be tied to getting money back. It won't change the larger narrative. I hope he helps but we will lose something with brandy in center.
for a little money back. Not sure why its such a big deal. Was just watching somebody on MLB the other night and they said ALL GMs ask for some money back. The worst they can say is no.
Clear upgrade, not old, great contract. I do reserve the right to change my view if the "other pieces" are something really bad but on it's face Wheeler and Bruce? No-brainer for me.
What if its Nimmo? Think I d be a little bummed. Im sure you'll be fine though. ;)
If the Mets are willing to pay the remainder of Bruce's deal (and pick up his option in 2017), the 2nd piece really should not be major at all.
This is where the Mets can prove that the "flexibility" is either there or isn't. If they force CIN to eat money and give up more for it, there's really no denying anymore than finances are still handicapping this franchise pretty badly.
What if we have to to get money back at the cost of another good piece? How can that not be really disappointing?
From what I understand a little money isn't changing the prospects all that much. Most GMs identify players they like in a trade. If they stings a little, the other team will often ask for a little money to offset it. Now if the Reds are taking on a HUGE amount of money? Thats totally different. But a million or two isn't changing the prospect package all that much IMO.
I'm talking about the size of the second piece for money. I think we'll know when we see the deal. But man it'd be nice to just step up on the money give up as little as possible.
for Bruce seems reasonable. If we give up a major second piece and we also receive significant cash in return, Mets' fans will have a right to be furious at the Wilpons.
Here's an interesting thought I just had that stemmed from the Bruce vs. Grandy talk. Offensively I think we'd all agree that offensively Granderson has been better than Gomez this season. But what about defensively? If Gomez isn't running full speed due to injury (likely given SB #'s) what do their numbers look like?
I'm not a huge fan of any overall defensive metrics, but I did think the catch distribution from Inside Edge might be relevant here:
Obviously sample size is an issue, but the biggest take away for me is that neither player has made any plays that far out of their zone this season whereas both made several in 2014. In 2014 Granderson made 3 "unlikely" plays and 4 "even" plays. Gomez made 2 "remote" plays and 1 "even" play.
Also this year Jay Bruce has made more unlikely (1) and even plays (3) than both. Though obviously Gomez has logged the majority of his plays in a tougher position. With Lagares on the bench as a late game sub I really think Granderson to CF is a viable option.
to compare defensive metrics at RF and centerfield.
But I think Bruce will be an upgrade over Conforto the rest of the season and hopefully next year the Mets can trade Granderson and go with Bruce and Conforto in the corners along with a surgeried Lagares.
for Bruce seems reasonable. If we give up a major second piece and we also receive significant cash in return, Mets' fans will have a right to be furious at the Wilpons.
If it was straight up they wouldn't have had to be working late on it. They're working on money for extra prospects.
Here's an interesting thought I just had that stemmed from the Bruce vs. Grandy talk. Offensively I think we'd all agree that offensively Granderson has been better than Gomez this season. But what about defensively? If Gomez isn't running full speed due to injury (likely given SB #'s) what do their numbers look like?
I'm not a huge fan of any overall defensive metrics, but I did think the catch distribution from Inside Edge might be relevant here:
.
Can't speak for Gomez but those stats aren't correct for Grandy as I've seen at least five ball he let drop which should be considered likely for him and routine for others.
I'm open to seeing Grandy tested out in CF w/ Conforto up for 1 week
I genuinely believe he will get better reads there (his biggest deficiency in RF IMO) and his arm at this point is same as Lagares (his 2nd biggest deficiency in RF).
If Conforto is hitting great, then you have a quandry, but likely a good one. If not and balls are falling in often, you put Lagares back in a little more rested and send the kid down.
about it but Conforto is going to have to start hitting. And soon. If he's not ready yet, all this OF alignment talk has been for nothing.
Agreed, and its the elephant in the room right now. He still has a great approach and works the count. You can tell he will be a good hitter, but it just might not be this year. Interested to see how long of a leash he has. A lot has to do with what happens today at the deadline and Cuddy coming back.
at least those that I've seen that are available to fans. I'm sure teams are far more advanced at this point. The main takeaway for me there was on the difficult chances thing. Historically Gomez has made several remote & unlikely catches, this year he isn't the same way he isn't stealing bases.
RE: I'm open to seeing Grandy tested out in CF w/ Conforto up for 1 week
In comment 12395632 Eric on Li said:
[quote] I genuinely believe he will get better reads there (his biggest deficiency in RF IMO) and his arm at this point is same as Lagares (his 2nd biggest deficiency in RF).
/quote]
for Bruce seems reasonable. If we give up a major second piece and we also receive significant cash in return, Mets' fans will have a right to be furious at the Wilpons.
If it was straight up they wouldn't have had to be working late on it. They're working on money for extra prospects.
I can't see how Wheeler alone gets Bruce.
RE: I'm open to seeing Grandy tested out in CF w/ Conforto up for 1 week
I genuinely believe he will get better reads there (his biggest deficiency in RF IMO) and his arm at this point is same as Lagares (his 2nd biggest deficiency in RF).
If Conforto is hitting great, then you have a quandry, but likely a good one. If not and balls are falling in often, you put Lagares back in a little more rested and send the kid down.
I'm with you, I'd try it. I don't think this is anywhere near as "experimental" or weird as putting Murphy or Duda in LF. Granderson has logged thousands of MLB innings in CF.
No, it's not ideal and there's going to be a clear dropoff from Lagares but if he's not "butcher" bad, it could be worth it.
If it doesn't work out, send Conforto back for a few weeks and bring him back up in Sept. We can sort out 2016 this winter.
if Conforto can catch fire it would change things. Ive said it many times but I like a Conforto-Granderson-Bruce allignment against righthanders and a Cuddyer-Lagares-Bruce OF against lefthanders. Think that would be solid and you'd still have Lagares to come in late in a game.
Dont see the harm in trying it. Granderson didn't embarrass himself in CF last year the few times he was there. If its really bad, you go back to Lagares/Kirk.
first they have O'Dowd telling them.. "the Mets asking for money is not a big deal. I ALWAYS asked for money, and every other GM asked for money from me.. it creates flexibility"
the same idiots are making a big deal today about the Mets asking for money as a reason why the Gomez deal didn't go on.
I would LOVE for this Bruce deal to go down to watch them speechless.
Bruce has such a terrible 2014. Negative WAR, .217 avg., only 18 HR. He's been solid this year, but that's a scary season. I wouldn't offer Wheeler plus for him.
RE: 2012 - I tend to agree, free defensive stats seem to be very dodgy
at least those that I've seen that are available to fans. I'm sure teams are far more advanced at this point. The main takeaway for me there was on the difficult chances thing. Historically Gomez has made several remote & unlikely catches, this year he isn't the same way he isn't stealing bases.
I see. IMO, Gomez is damaged goods.
I'm not really excited for any of these players as i think the Mets need a bonafide #3 hitter and everybody they've looked at isn't that. I'd be happier with a Bruce than Gomez b/c he adds some pop yet no way I'm offering more than Wheels and low level prospect.
Personally, i prefer Wheels in a package for a better player than any of these guys the media has shown interest in (Tulo was too costly and risky IMO and Gomez has something wrong with his leg i think). I like Bruce more than the others but for a ransom and i think Wheels is pretty close to a ransom for a .250 hitter with pop.
Bruce has such a terrible 2014. Negative WAR, .217 avg., only 18 HR. He's been solid this year, but that's a scary season. I wouldn't offer Wheeler plus for him.
pssht.. it just means they missed the boat to get him on the cheap last year ;)
Bruce's 2014 was a pretty clear outlier. You don't even have to dig too deep to play "which one of these things doesn't belong" and see that it was 2014.
Source: Astros have some interest in Rays' relievers Boxberger, McGee and Jepsen, though nothing serious at this time.
Wonder if the Mets have any interest in the Rays RP. Doubt they would be cheap though.
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Joe Giglio
@JoeGiglioSports
Since 2008, only 4 OF in MLB have more HR than Jay Bruce. If the Mets land him for a SP coming off Tommy John, it's a no-brainer
We tried for the CF (Gomez, Parra) and SS (Tulo) and failed to get a deal done. This is the best we're going to do now. It'd still be a good get.
The point really shouldn't be does he make them a little better or not. The point should be if you are going to trade a guy like Wheeler is this who you use him for? IMO Bruce is not worth trading a top trading piece for. Save trading Wheeler for something better. After all this time waiting to build the team right around this young staff don't make panic trades at this point and settle for average return for your top prospects.
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Joe Giglio
@JoeGiglioSports
Since 2008, only 4 OF in MLB have more HR than Jay Bruce. If the Mets land him for a SP coming off Tommy John, it's a no-brainer
2015 GAB and Citifield have had very similar HR rates.
Quote:
Bruce makes the Mets a better team right now and it's not even debatable. We aren't getting Wheeler's best until 2017 and the emergence of Fulmer is playing a large role in this.
We tried for the CF (Gomez, Parra) and SS (Tulo) and failed to get a deal done. This is the best we're going to do now. It'd still be a good get.
The point really shouldn't be does he make them a little better or not. The point should be if you are going to trade a guy like Wheeler is this who you use him for? IMO Bruce is not worth trading a top trading piece for. Save trading Wheeler for something better. After all this time waiting to build the team right around this young staff don't make panic trades at this point and settle for average return for your top prospects.
This isn't a panic trade. We need offense and Bruce is signed through 2017. Wheeler is unlikely to even provide much until then.
Who do you suggest dealing Wheeler for? We're not getting a better player than Bruce if Wheeler is the main piece.
The emergence of Fulmer is likely the reason for the org viewing Wheeler as more expendable now. We still have a lot of pitching.
#Mets & #Reds are "pretty far along" on Jay Bruce deal, doing "due diligence on medicals" per @AdamRubinESPN. Latest: http://bit.ly/1MXsCAN
Lets get this done so we can all feel good again.
Lets get this done so we can all feel good again.
Clear upgrade, not old, great contract. I do reserve the right to change my view if the "other pieces" are something really bad but on it's face Wheeler and Bruce? No-brainer for me.
Must say I'm really worried about this trade. Looks like it'll happen which is great I guess, but I think the second piece will be significant and it'll be tied to getting money back. It won't change the larger narrative. I hope he helps but we will lose something with brandy in center.
Ill be very happy. Im getting nervous about second pieces though.
Quote:
get! Dan's original target!
Lets get this done so we can all feel good again.
Clear upgrade, not old, great contract. I do reserve the right to change my view if the "other pieces" are something really bad but on it's face Wheeler and Bruce? No-brainer for me.
What if its Nimmo? Think I d be a little bummed. Im sure you'll be fine though. ;)
This is where the Mets can prove that the "flexibility" is either there or isn't. If they force CIN to eat money and give up more for it, there's really no denying anymore than finances are still handicapping this franchise pretty badly.
From what I understand a little money isn't changing the prospects all that much. Most GMs identify players they like in a trade. If they stings a little, the other team will often ask for a little money to offset it. Now if the Reds are taking on a HUGE amount of money? Thats totally different. But a million or two isn't changing the prospect package all that much IMO.
Com'on, whatever happens today is hardly a defining moment unless they land a bonafide star (which Bruce isn't).
It can be top 10. Somebody like Gsellman and Im fine.
I'm not a huge fan of any overall defensive metrics, but I did think the catch distribution from Inside Edge might be relevant here:
Curtis Granderson (mostly RF)
Routine (90-100%) - 98.9% (184 chances)
Likely (60-90%) - 100% (4 chances)
Even (40-60%) - 0% (1 chance)
Unlike (10-40%) - 0% (2 chances)
Remote (1-10%) - 0% (6 chances)
Impossible (0%) - 0% (37 chances)
Carlos Gomez (mostly CF)
Routine (90-100%) - 100% (157 chances)
Likely (60-90%) - 57.1% (7 chances)
Even (40-60%) - 0% (0 chances)
Unlikely (10-40%) - 0% (0 chances)
Remote (1-10%) - 0% (8 chances)
Impossible (0%) - 0% (35 chances)
Obviously sample size is an issue, but the biggest take away for me is that neither player has made any plays that far out of their zone this season whereas both made several in 2014. In 2014 Granderson made 3 "unlikely" plays and 4 "even" plays. Gomez made 2 "remote" plays and 1 "even" play.
Also this year Jay Bruce has made more unlikely (1) and even plays (3) than both. Though obviously Gomez has logged the majority of his plays in a tougher position. With Lagares on the bench as a late game sub I really think Granderson to CF is a viable option.
if the Mets trade for Bruce, I'd be all for
Bruce
Lagares
Granderson
Conforto is going to be a great hitter, and he may already be. That being said, they need a glove in CF.
if the Mets trade for Bruce, I'd be all for
Bruce
Lagares
Granderson
Conforto is going to be a great hitter, and he may already be. That being said, they need a glove in CF.
That's what it's going to be. No doubt if they get Bruce, Conforto is going to Vegas
But I think Bruce will be an upgrade over Conforto the rest of the season and hopefully next year the Mets can trade Granderson and go with Bruce and Conforto in the corners along with a surgeried Lagares.
Just send him back down, let him get ABs.
If it was straight up they wouldn't have had to be working late on it. They're working on money for extra prospects.
I'm not a huge fan of any overall defensive metrics, but I did think the catch distribution from Inside Edge might be relevant here:
.
Can't speak for Gomez but those stats aren't correct for Grandy as I've seen at least five ball he let drop which should be considered likely for him and routine for others.
If Conforto is hitting great, then you have a quandry, but likely a good one. If not and balls are falling in often, you put Lagares back in a little more rested and send the kid down.
Quote:
but..
if the Mets trade for Bruce, I'd be all for
Bruce
Lagares
Granderson
Conforto is going to be a great hitter, and he may already be. That being said, they need a glove in CF.
That's what it's going to be. No doubt if they get Bruce, Conforto is going to Vegas
I'd keep him up until Cuddyer is healthy.
It's not like the Mets bench is stacked lol
Agreed, and its the elephant in the room right now. He still has a great approach and works the count. You can tell he will be a good hitter, but it just might not be this year. Interested to see how long of a leash he has. A lot has to do with what happens today at the deadline and Cuddy coming back.
[quote] I genuinely believe he will get better reads there (his biggest deficiency in RF IMO) and his arm at this point is same as Lagares (his 2nd biggest deficiency in RF).
/quote]
I give up lol
Quote:
for Bruce seems reasonable. If we give up a major second piece and we also receive significant cash in return, Mets' fans will have a right to be furious at the Wilpons.
If it was straight up they wouldn't have had to be working late on it. They're working on money for extra prospects.
I can't see how Wheeler alone gets Bruce.
If Conforto is hitting great, then you have a quandry, but likely a good one. If not and balls are falling in often, you put Lagares back in a little more rested and send the kid down.
I'm with you, I'd try it. I don't think this is anywhere near as "experimental" or weird as putting Murphy or Duda in LF. Granderson has logged thousands of MLB innings in CF.
No, it's not ideal and there's going to be a clear dropoff from Lagares but if he's not "butcher" bad, it could be worth it.
If it doesn't work out, send Conforto back for a few weeks and bring him back up in Sept. We can sort out 2016 this winter.
Dont see the harm in trying it. Granderson didn't embarrass himself in CF last year the few times he was there. If its really bad, you go back to Lagares/Kirk.
the same idiots are making a big deal today about the Mets asking for money as a reason why the Gomez deal didn't go on.
I would LOVE for this Bruce deal to go down to watch them speechless.
I see. IMO, Gomez is damaged goods.
I'm not really excited for any of these players as i think the Mets need a bonafide #3 hitter and everybody they've looked at isn't that. I'd be happier with a Bruce than Gomez b/c he adds some pop yet no way I'm offering more than Wheels and low level prospect.
Personally, i prefer Wheels in a package for a better player than any of these guys the media has shown interest in (Tulo was too costly and risky IMO and Gomez has something wrong with his leg i think). I like Bruce more than the others but for a ransom and i think Wheels is pretty close to a ransom for a .250 hitter with pop.
pssht.. it just means they missed the boat to get him on the cheap last year ;)