Fulmer might be a stud, but I was at the Met's v A's when Wheeler first felt his elbow and was almost scratched and got lit up, anyway, my point is that Cepedes took the most violent swing I've seen since Sheffield.
Fulmer might be a stud, but I was at the Met's v A's when Wheeler first felt his elbow and was almost scratched and got lit up, anyway, my point is that Cepedes took the most violent swing I've seen since Sheffield.
Fulmer might be a stud, but I was at the Met's v A's when Wheeler first felt his elbow and was almost scratched and got lit up, anyway, my point is that Cepedes took the most violent swing I've seen since Sheffield.
was signed for next year, I'd fucking love this trade. As it went down... I'm OK with it. This guy is a difference maker and we're going to have some fun the next two months. I just really hope we're going to try and extend him if things go well.
I'd be angry if they didn't do anything but offer us a
"we tried our best" They get killed for not making moves, so even if Fulmer is VerlanderII I dont care. He tried to improve the team and he did. Bravo!
Hope we can resign Cespedes to a long-term contract.
which helps balance the lineup till wright gets back. He has a bazooka for an arm, he swings hard and gets himself out, but he can mash with anyone in the game from the right side
RE: I'd be angry if they didn't do anything but offer us a
"we tried our best" They get killed for not making moves, so even if Fulmer is VerlanderII I dont care. He tried to improve the team and he did. Bravo!
This isn't the boyscouts. You don't get merits for trying hard. If Fulmer is Verlander II and Cespedes bombs we will absolutely care and should care.
I don't like this trade at all for the Mets. Cespedes is having a career year batting in a great lineup. He's not a selective hitter so getting good pitches to hit is key for him. He won't get nearly as many with the Mets.
Of re-signing Cespedes, I read he has an odd contract stipulation that he cannot re-sign with a team between five days after The World Series and May15th of the next year which is why Detroit wanted to trade him or they couldnt re-sign him.
Lets just never trade anyone in case they might be great. let's just rip on SA & the Wilpon's, that is more of our comfort zone that to take chances and try to win
That would certainly be the end of me referring to our ownership as the Wilponsis. I'd welcome it haha.
Agreed. But this is a guy who has been quite honest about wanting to have a shot at being a FA so you are looking at a bidding war with a GM who admits he hates megadeals with a cheap owner. It's realisitcally 7-8 years 20 per, I'd love to be shocked but I would be just that.
Detroit wanted to trade him because he wasn't eligible for a QO. Which means they would lose him for nothing. No compensation whatsoever.
The article I linked mentions that as well. I just found that contract stipulation pretty weird. Ill take him as a rental and as Dan says the Mets will likely not pay him the money he is looking for.
I would really like this trade. However, this team just lost 2 of three at home vs the Padres and will lose a good trade chip in Fulmer for nothing if we dont make the playoffs. I would have preferred trading Wheeler/Fulmer for a non rental but that would mean the owners would have to commit to spending more money.
the last two years. Now he hits in stacked lineup and of course does better and we give up our best pitching prospect hoping for that level of production? And just for a rental? It doesn't make sense to me. Bruce I could see because he's not a rental.
World Series and Conforto replaces Cespedes next year. Or maybe we trade Granderson and re-sign Cespedes. Who knows? That's next year. Can't say this organization didn't take a chance which is what we all wanted. If we lose the trade we lose the trade but everyone's been screaming for EXACTLY this!
It really isn't debatable. He's made us contenders without giving up the farm. There is half an hour or so left if the deadline is EDT correct? Add a bullpen arm and let's go for it.
like the move but I'd be absolutely stunned if he remains a Met. 7 years 140-ish is probably his next deal, if not more.
The fact that this is a NY team worth over a billion dollars and we're concerned about being able to re-sign him is a shame.
Well that's my point. If he performs and does really well and earns his money we SHOULD be thinking "he's coming back". Yankees, Cubs, Rangers, Red Sox, Dodgers etc those fans expect that. Ours are expected to accept the opposite. He hits .350 with 8 homers down the stretch "we just think the contract was too rich for our blood".
that currently fields a rotation of 4 legitimate #1/2 starters and another #2/3 who will ultimately be our 5th starter. Plus Jon Niese, plus Rafael Montero.
We were also fielding a AAA lineup for most of the season and have managed to stay within 3 games of a division lead.
If you "don't like" this trade, you are clueless OR you are just ok with saying "next year" every year.
200 million for Cano I have a feeling we can sign Cespedes, especially with so many players coming off the books. Trade Granderson and we'll have the funds. But who cares about that now? Our lineup just went from the joke of the league to damn respectable. TDA and Cespedes tonight is a massive boost.
Cespedes was the most valuable player on the Tigers thus far in 2015. Give me a break with this "he was only hitting well because of a stacked lineup" narrative. Cabrera has missed like 25 games and it didn't make any difference in his production.
if you don't agree with everyone's opinion you are clueless and stupid. None of us are pro scouts and can truly evaluate how good someone will become, hell even pro scouts get that wrong, see deGrom. Yet we are idiots if we don't like that same thing some other web posted doesn't agree with.
the last two years. Now he hits in stacked lineup and of course does better and we give up our best pitching prospect hoping for that level of production? And just for a rental? It doesn't make sense to me. Bruce I could see because he's not a rental.
He batted .750 the last two years? Fascinating....
And it's debatable that Fulmer is our "best" pitching prospect. He's one of a handful, but can't possibly say unequivocally he's the "best".
But even if he was - they have Harvey, Thor, deGrom now, plus Matz on the mend, and Montero (hopefully this shoulder thing heals). Plus Niese.
And no one is expecting him to match his Detroit totals. But he'll help this lineup signficantly. Yes, he's a free swinger, but he'll get some protection in this lineup.
...counting on Montero for anything is getting dicey after more shoulder pain and yet another examination which revealed nothing.
I'm referring to the next 3-4 years when Gee, Colon, and Niese are gone and Wheeler is back. We have a ton of 5 starter types we can use right now. And Matz should be back soon.
He's had health and durability problems. There have been pitchers that really struggled with a similar injury. Playoff race or not they should take a conservative approach with him.
RE: RE: The dude was about a .750 hitter hitting in normal lineups
the last two years. Now he hits in stacked lineup and of course does better and we give up our best pitching prospect hoping for that level of production? And just for a rental? It doesn't make sense to me. Bruce I could see because he's not a rental.
He batted .750 the last two years? Fascinating....
because we're deep... no. You use your assets wisely regardless of big league depth. Wisely would be acquiring a hitter who is around for years to come.
Thing we are doing here is to win a WS. And this might be the best shot we have. Who knows where we are at next year. Get Matz, Wright, Blevins, and Goedell back and we have the horses to make some noise.
because we're deep... no. You use your assets wisely regardless of big league depth. Wisely would be acquiring a hitter who is around for years to come.
Holy fuck - you don't think Sandy tried that??? Of course that's what everyone wants - a guy like that is going to cost a helluva lot more than a Fulmer.
Even if they got Bruce, he was only locked up for the next two seasons after this one.
And they can STILL lock Cespedes up for "years to come" if Wilpon would open up the fucking purse strings and act like the big market team they are; however, that is a topic for another day.
To not like this deal is fucking moronic. Don't love it? Ok, fair enough. But to not even like it. Completely Ridiculous...
Some of you guys would seriously never make a single move if you were GM's.. it's like you guys just want to sit on prospects and potential forever. Crazy.
We are FINALLY about to see a legitimate big league team on the field in Flushing in this stadium for basically the first time since it was built.. and people are still not satisfied.
Worry about next year later. We are getting our catcher back and added another legit RH power bat. Maybe David Wright shocks the world and returns in 3 weeks. Who knows.
I'm looking forward to relevant fucking baseball in September and hopefully October for the first time in a LONG time. It has been long enough.
Luckily for the Mets you can give up a guy like Fulmer when you are going to send Thor, Harvey, deGrom, Matz, Wheeler to the mound for the next 5+ seasons.
Some of you guys would seriously never make a single move if you were GM's.. it's like you guys just want to sit on prospects and potential forever. Crazy.
We are FINALLY about to see a legitimate big league team on the field in Flushing in this stadium for basically the first time since it was built.. and people are still not satisfied.
Worry about next year later. We are getting our catcher back and added another legit RH power bat. Maybe David Wright shocks the world and returns in 3 weeks. Who knows.
I'm looking forward to relevant fucking baseball in September and hopefully October for the first time in a LONG time. It has been long enough.
my comments are somehow changed... I like the move and support the move. I'm speaking beyond this year and wishing I knew our owners cared enough that if he's awesome we keep him. Even the most optimistic of you have to admit he could hit .350 with 10 homers and you would still be iffy on Fred paying up.
my comments are somehow changed... I like the move and support the move. I'm speaking beyond this year and wishing I knew our owners cared enough that if he's awesome we keep him. Even the most optimistic of you have to admit he could hit .350 with 10 homers and you would still be iffy on Fred paying up.
I'm not worried about it. The deal for what it is, is one major prospect for one of the best bats available for a playoff run. That's the going rate. I hope we can sign him in the offseason but I've segmented that into something totally different.
Is Cadaver going to require surgery at some point?
Just announced he's about to start a rehab assignment. Rosenthal was drunk earlier. Cuddyer will be back soon and I love having a right handed power bat on the bench even if he is WAY overpaid now.
were strong rumors he didn't feel comfortable in RF despite him claiming otherwise. Then didn't play a single game there in Boston or Detroit and now Sandy says he's the LF. He must off the record tell teams he doesn't like RF.
I never said I was against the trade just that I didn't "really like it." The Mets have a decent size window with the current pitching staff and I'd rather used the trade chips to acquire someone that will help for more than 3 months. If the Mets win the division it was a great trade, if they fail to make the playoffs it was not. Like a draft you have to wait awhile to see how good or bad this trade was.
Collins now has his chance. He's had the 'talent' excuse to cover up for his head scratching moves and mediocre results. The horses are in the barn. Get it done or GTFO.
I never said I was against the trade just that I didn't "really like it." The Mets have a decent size window with the current pitching staff and I'd rather used the trade chips to acquire someone that will help for more than 3 months. If the Mets win the division it was a great trade, if they fail to make the playoffs it was not. Like a draft you have to wait awhile to see how good or bad this trade was.
That's not really fair either. Sometimes you have to make a deal regardless of who ends up winning it in the long run. Fulmer could be the next Nolan Ryan but I still make this trade 10 times out of 10 due to the current circumstances. Fans were about to burn down Citifield without a move like this. It had to be done.
fair or not, thats usually how trades are evalauted.
Its not so much what Fulmer becomes, he was a trade chip, but could he have been traded now (I assume Sandy tried and got a no ) or off season for a longer term solution? Great example listed above about Melvin Mora. If the Mets won the World Series it would have been great. However, they didn't, he went back to Baltimore and the Mets were left with neither player.
I respect all your opinions, I'm just stating this might not be as great as some are making it out to be. All trades involve risk and this may or may not pan out is my point. I sure hope it does.
Cespedes contract states his team must release him after the season. CBA rules say any team that releases a player CANNOT re-sign him as a free agent until May 15th. So there is very little chance the Mets keep him past this year regardless of the owners willingness to spend or not spend.
that Zack Wheeler called Sandy directly today and said to please not trade him. He really wants to be part of the New York Mets and Sandy said that had a major impact on him. I don't know if I've ever heard of a player doing that but it's great to hear. I saw a different demeanor in Zack Wheeler this spring before he got hurt and I liked what I saw. I love this even more. Guys want to be here, playing for the Mets. Wilmer crying, Zack calling and asking to not be traded. It's a fun team and guys like it.
Ok, I'm convinced. Cespedes is going to go off here and love it here and re-sign in the offseason! LGM!
Cespedes contract states his team must release him after the season. CBA rules say any team that releases a player CANNOT re-sign him as a free agent until May 15th. So there is very little chance the Mets keep him past this year regardless of the owners willingness to spend or not spend.
Cespedes contract states his team must release him after the season. CBA rules say any team that releases a player CANNOT re-sign him as a free agent until May 15th. So there is very little chance the Mets keep him past this year regardless of the owners willingness to spend or not spend.
I thought that was strictly to do with the QO. I think any team can sign a free agent.
within that article sums it up a little different.
If I read it correctly, they can redo a contract until 5 days after the WS, if nothing is done by then, they cannot talk until May 15th.
I never said I was against the trade just that I didn't "really like it." The Mets have a decent size window with the current pitching staff and I'd rather used the trade chips to acquire someone that will help for more than 3 months. If the Mets win the division it was a great trade, if they fail to make the playoffs it was not. Like a draft you have to wait awhile to see how good or bad this trade was.
That's not really fair either. Sometimes you have to make a deal regardless of who ends up winning it in the long run. Fulmer could be the next Nolan Ryan but I still make this trade 10 times out of 10 due to the current circumstances. Fans were about to burn down Citifield without a move like this. It had to be done.
That logic is very flawed. If the Mets miss the playoffs and Cespedes walks in free agency and Fulmer becomes a great starting pitcher then the trade was a big mistake. You can't make moves to appease the fans thats when you fail as a GM. Now I am not knocking the trade. I am a Braves fan ask me how I feel about the trade of JD Drew for Adam Wainright. At the time the Braves traded a solid prospect for a young power bat with star potential who was supposed to be the missing piece to a championship. Now Atlanta didn't win it all Drew walked and Wainright became one of the best starters in baseball. Now I doubt you praised Atlanta for making that trade because they were going for it.
Collins now has his chance. He's had the 'talent' excuse to cover up for his head scratching moves and mediocre results. The horses are in the barn. Get it done or GTFO.
Are we making this guy our savior for the season? A player who hasn't hit more than 26 homeruns in his career?
Can this one bat get us over the top? So much so, that Collins loses credibility if he doesn't?
If the Mets fall short this year and Cespedes goes elsewhere and Fulmer winds up being good, I still don't think it's a mistake. Sometimes you have to take chances and be a little aggressive. It's not like this trade wrecks the Mets future somehow. They'll still have a lot of pitching, Conforto will be ready next year, maybe Cecchini is ready.. maybe they add another bat somehow.
The only downer is how much did SA piss off Boras with pulling out of the Gomez deal. How important is this. Well Boras has a lot to say about where Harvey signs as a FA
If the Mets fall short this year and Cespedes goes elsewhere and Fulmer winds up being good, I still don't think it's a mistake. Sometimes you have to take chances and be a little aggressive. It's not like this trade wrecks the Mets future somehow. They'll still have a lot of pitching, Conforto will be ready next year, maybe Cecchini is ready.. maybe they add another bat somehow.
This isn't a 2015 or bust move.
I agree. In no way did they mortgage the future in this deal. This isn't selling out for a misguided haymaker at making the playoffs. If this team gets in, with this starting pitching, they can do some damage.
wow wheeler called sandy and asked not to be traded
One of them is a legit stud. If you consider TDA's return and Conforto's call up that's five hitters. It's no longer a borderline AAA lineup. Granderson is raking. duda has come to life.
The Collins apologists cite our anemic offense and gloss over his failures to navigate critical moments or push the right buttons on the pitching staff.
If he can't guide this team to the postseason he should get the axe.
Jerry Seinfeld ✔@JerrySeinfeld
Oh my god. @Mets
I can't believe I can actually say this, but is it true that there is now
"A Cespedis for the rest of us"?
#mets
#T7L
5:22 PM - 31 Jul 2015
First of all that is about the opposite appraoch that Sandy takes. It was done because this is an anemic offense to go along with one of the best pitching staffs in baseball. The offense needed upgrades, period. They have the pitchers going well this year and you never know what's going to happen next year, God forbid Thor or Degrom get hurt, etc. They have a chance to go for it this year instead of always 'waiting for next year' and that's what they are doing. The offense has been pathetic and it has been upgraded. It sucks to lose Fulmer but we dealt from a position of strengh there. We've got the "Fab 5" plus Niese and Montero and they can always sign a 5th starter type in FA if it ever came to that.
They have a shot and are finally going for it. Good for them and that's why the trade was done. If things go well they can work out the contract issues, especially using that loophole of redoing a contract up until 5 days after the World Series. Hopefully he loves it here and does well and that gets worked out.
the last couple months are otherworldly. And if he stays healthy, he's got a shot to be a decent mlb player at the very least.
He has to stay healthy and keep up with the performance. He's a very good get for a rental but he's also the type of guy u can give up for one esp if you depth in that position.
RE: This trade is like the one that brought Wheeler here for Beltran,
Ok with giving up Fulmer to get a good bat but I would not be happy if Cespedes walks. I liked the Bruce deal bc we would have had him for a couple of years after this one.
Oh well, it should be an exciting couple of months, at least..
I caught SNY's replay of Alderson talking about the trade
One part I thought stuck out. He said acquiring a player like this would help the offense, but also provide energy for the clubhouse, the fans *and change the way this team is perceived*
And he also said he wasn't happy about giving up what he gave up.
I'm not going to close the door on the possibility that maybe they made this deal with an attempt to keep him in mind. If you want to change the way this franchise is perceived, signing him long term does that, just like spending the money for Beltran and Pedro did 10 years ago.
If the Mets fall short this year and Cespedes goes elsewhere and Fulmer winds up being good, I still don't think it's a mistake. Sometimes you have to take chances and be a little aggressive. It's not like this trade wrecks the Mets future somehow. They'll still have a lot of pitching, Conforto will be ready next year, maybe Cecchini is ready.. maybe they add another bat somehow.
This isn't a 2015 or bust move.
Ok, I'll bite. Managing a professional sports organization successfully revolves predominantly around proper asset management. Expending assets to a losing cause (not winning the championship) is futile and a waste of said assets of which the opportunity cost is continouslyl building on said assets for a more realistic chance at winning a championship. If the time is not right, discarding assets for a meaningless jolt of happiness is futile. If Cespedes bolts and/or the Mets do not capitalize on this trade with a WS than how do you justify discarding valuable assets that could've been utilized at a more opportune time for the club?
You care about meaningful baseball in September and October? Great. Did you enjoy watching our Rangers shaking hands without hoisting the Cup each of the last few seasons? Perhaps you did. Fuck that. Win or build to win. I don't she'll out money and time to come close enough without tasting it.
how is a trade of your second best minor league asset
for a guy under contract only for this year not a 2015 or bust move? That is the very definition of a win now move.
And this was a massive overpay for a rental. Look at what the Os got Parra for. Its almost as though the Mets were so eager to show the world that they would be active for a change that they backed themselves into a corner negotiating wise.
Some of you guys would just sit on assets forever if you could. You'd never trade anyone, never make a move and be too scared to be aggressive.
We've been doing nothing but stockpiling assets for FIVE YEARS now.
The Mets need offense. We have been watching arguably the best staff in baseball get anchored all year by a pitiful, anemic offense. Terrible run production. And somehow, we were still above .500.
Now we have a legitimate MLB lineup to go along with the pitching and are 2 games out of our division with 2 months of baseball to play. We've positioned ourselves nicely to make a run.
And again, this isn't 2015 or bust. It's just not. We will still have an excellent rotation next year. Michael Fulmer is not a known quantity at the MLB level yet. Trading him away stings but you give talent to get talent. That's how it works. The Mets are a better team now than they were yesterday.
If you guys want to just sit on prospects and never move anyone, go on ahead. You'll be watching a team that can't make the postseason for another 5 years. Then the pitchers will be gone and then we'll have nothing. Enjoy.
And give me a fucking break with "look what the O's got Parra for"..
Some of you guys would just sit on assets forever if you could. You'd never trade anyone, never make a move and be too scared to be aggressive.
We've been doing nothing but stockpiling assets for FIVE YEARS now.
The Mets need offense. We have been watching arguably the best staff in baseball get anchored all year by a pitiful, anemic offense. Terrible run production. And somehow, we were still above .500.
Now we have a legitimate MLB lineup to go along with the pitching and are 2 games out of our division with 2 months of baseball to play. We've positioned ourselves nicely to make a run.
And again, this isn't 2015 or bust. It's just not. We will still have an excellent rotation next year. Michael Fulmer is not a known quantity at the MLB level yet. Trading him away stings but you give talent to get talent. That's how it works. The Mets are a better team now than they were yesterday.
If you guys want to just sit on prospects and never move anyone, go on ahead. You'll be watching a team that can't make the postseason for another 5 years. Then the pitchers will be gone and then we'll have nothing. Enjoy.
Yep. The Mets fandom has gotten so used to the slogan "Wait until next year" and waiting on prospects who didn't pan out (generation K, FMart, Milledge).
This is our once in a millenium chance at a title and we have to go for it all within the next 4-5 years.
But who fucking cares about 5 yrs from now? Sports is about winning championships and if you have a chance for one you go for it. You rely on the scouts to restock and the coaches to develop the next batch of guys. as much as we kill the organization, these guys seem to be doing just that
Some of you guys would just sit on assets forever if you could. You'd never trade anyone, never make a move and be too scared to be aggressive.
We've been doing nothing but stockpiling assets for FIVE YEARS now.
The Mets need offense. We have been watching arguably the best staff in baseball get anchored all year by a pitiful, anemic offense. Terrible run production. And somehow, we were still above .500.
Now we have a legitimate MLB lineup to go along with the pitching and are 2 games out of our division with 2 months of baseball to play. We've positioned ourselves nicely to make a run.
And again, this isn't 2015 or bust. It's just not. We will still have an excellent rotation next year. Michael Fulmer is not a known quantity at the MLB level yet. Trading him away stings but you give talent to get talent. That's how it works. The Mets are a better team now than they were yesterday.
If you guys want to just sit on prospects and never move anyone, go on ahead. You'll be watching a team that can't make the postseason for another 5 years. Then the pitchers will be gone and then we'll have nothing. Enjoy.
Fulmer could have helped the Mets next year and beyond but there are no guarantees. And this is NOT a move that precludes the Mets from competing beyond this year.
Teams that truly make "all in, this year or bust" moves have significantly lower chances of being good the following season(s) and usually have to blow the whole thing up or their window gets significantly smaller. This is literally nowhere near one of those situations.
If Cespedes catapults this team into October and gives us a chance with this pitching staff, I don't know how anyone could possibly complain.
Fulmer wasn't even close to the best prospect given up at the deadline, either.
I'm looking forward to watching the Mets actually compete for the NLE again.
Ok, I'll bite. Managing a professional sports organization successfully revolves predominantly around proper asset management. Expending assets to a losing cause (not winning the championship) is futile and a waste of said assets of which the opportunity cost is continouslyl building on said assets for a more realistic chance at winning a championship. If the time is not right, discarding assets for a meaningless jolt of happiness is futile. If Cespedes bolts and/or the Mets do not capitalize on this trade with a WS than how do you justify discarding valuable assets that could've been utilized at a more opportune time for the club?
You care about meaningful baseball in September and October? Great. Did you enjoy watching our Rangers shaking hands without hoisting the Cup each of the last few seasons? Perhaps you did. Fuck that. Win or build to win. I don't she'll out money and time to come close enough without tasting it.
This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard and I'm glad you don't run the Mets franchise (or any other pro franchise)...because you would fail.
"Expending assets to a losing cause (not winning the championship) is futile and a waste of said assets"
I guess you can tell the future? Gimme a break. The whole point of expending assets is to provide your team with a better chance to WIN...certainly not to expect to lose. Winning is not guaranteed no matter how good you team is. I figured you would understand this as you are a Rangers fan.
Prospects are a crapshoot. Most never even pan out. The Mets have done an amazing job of stockpiling their assets that they have put them in a position to make moves like this without hurting the major league ballclub. Sure, it stings, but these are moves you have to make.
Let's flip it around...what if Fulmer never amounts to anything. This would be a wasted opportunity. You are okay with this?
and with the addition of the four players we acquired, it should be even better (assuming we stay in the hunt). I think the owners kept their word when they said they'd increase the payroll if attendance went up and I think they'll follow through in the off season to continue with a higher payroll.
Just by glancing at the numbers, the Mets increased payroll this season by $9-10 million with these moves.
Fulmer could have helped the Mets next year and beyond but there are no guarantees. And this is NOT a move that precludes the Mets from competing beyond this year.
Teams that truly make "all in, this year or bust" moves have significantly lower chances of being good the following season(s) and usually have to blow the whole thing up or their window gets significantly smaller. This is literally nowhere near one of those situations.
If Cespedes catapults this team into October and gives us a chance with this pitching staff, I don't know how anyone could possibly complain.
Fulmer wasn't even close to the best prospect given up at the deadline, either.
I'm looking forward to watching the Mets actually compete for the NLE again.
You're not understanding the concept of an asset. Whether or not he had a spot with the big league club was irrelevant. Fulmer was one of the Mets best trade assets. And was traded for a rental whose numbers are inflated by a) a great lineup and b) a great month.
Its a very high risk move. And Parra is having a similar year and plays a higher value position. So given that they're both rentals, they're fairly comparable in value.
Because of lineup? Give it a rest man. He has avg over 20hrs and 80rbi in the majors. He started out on a similar offense as the mets in oakland. If you think cespedes and parra are comparable you are a lunatic.
If you are going to compare Parra and Cespedes as if they are the
Cespedes has been the most valuable player on the team this year. He's not succeeding because of them and his production remained constant with Cabrera out of the lineup. He and Parra are not even remotely comparable players. I know you like to use the OPS column and nothing else but if you actually watch these two players, they are nothing alike.
And yes, I understand exactly what an "asset" is and Fulmer was far from the only one we had. Fulmer wasn't even in the top 10 as far as prospects that were dealt at the deadline.
You're banking on complete hypotheticals. I know what Yoenis Cespedes is at the MLB level. You don't know what Michael Fulmer will be.
The alternative was, what.. not making a move because it would have involved losing an asset? Sitting out another postseason? Go get em next year?
Boy.. we haven't seen enough of that over the years. Let's just keep waiting.
Fulmer has looked awesome, but this time last yr he's an afterthought
Same with Meisner. In the offseason Sickels had Meisner at #20 in our top 20 and Fulmer as an honorable mention. Fangraphs had Fulmer at #12 and Meisner at #22. Law had them #15-16. That isn't meant to diminish their respective performances to date or their value at this moment, just sort of a reminder that this organization has done a great job finding arms and has earned some benefit of doubt because every year we've had 2-3 new prospects "breakout". He's about to undergo TJS, but Blake Taylor as an example was a former 2nd round pick HS thrower who right now we don't think anything of. In 2-3 years he could be right where Fulmer is now, who also had battled a ton of injuries early in his career. Andrew Church is another 2nd round HS pick in Brooklyn right now. Last year they picked some interesting arms like Secrest, Prevost and Manoah, this year they took a ton of arms. It may take a season or two to see it reflected on the prospect sites, but I have no doubt they will rebuild the pitching depth. Not to mention Montero, Bowman, Ynoa, Molina (also inj).
Trading Wheeler vs. Fulmer is a very interesting strategic debate. Someone on twitter posted yesterday that the successful return rate of TJS (70%ish) is more than triple that of a prospect in AA panning out (20%) and I think it's likely undeniable that Wheeler has more value since he's proven he's a major league pitcher. I'd have much spent that extra value to get a player committed beyond one season, but it wasn't in the cards I guess. Everything I've heard about Fulmer's performance this season reminded me of Matz last year, so it certainly stings to lose him, but I'm glad to still have Wheeler who has already shown what he can do. There are never any guarantees with prospects.
On the other side of the ledger, Cespedes gives us the best chance of anyone who got traded to help get our 3 aces to the playoffs, period. Those 3 arms are our organizational strength and right now all 3 are healthy and we are 2 games out of first place. No guarantees that will every be the case again, and any time it is we should be go for it.
Fulmer could have helped the Mets next year and beyond but there are no guarantees. And this is NOT a move that precludes the Mets from competing beyond this year.
Teams that truly make "all in, this year or bust" moves have significantly lower chances of being good the following season(s) and usually have to blow the whole thing up or their window gets significantly smaller. This is literally nowhere near one of those situations.
If Cespedes catapults this team into October and gives us a chance with this pitching staff, I don't know how anyone could possibly complain.
Fulmer wasn't even close to the best prospect given up at the deadline, either.
I'm looking forward to watching the Mets actually compete for the NLE again.
You're not understanding the concept of an asset. Whether or not he had a spot with the big league club was irrelevant. Fulmer was one of the Mets best trade assets. And was traded for a rental whose numbers are inflated by a) a great lineup and b) a great month.
Its a very high risk move. And Parra is having a similar year and plays a higher value position. So given that they're both rentals, they're fairly comparable in value.
It was an overpay.
You're completely clueless about Cespedes. His numbers are inflated because of a great lineup and a great month? Wtf? First of all, that lineup has NOT been great. He's been the best player in the team. vMart and Miggy have been banged up and haven't been on the field for a big portion of the season. Secondly, what the hell is wrong with having a great month? That doesn't count? You'd rather acquire a player that's having an awful month? And thirdly, he has been playing his home games in Yellowstone.
Cespedes is a very good player. An all around player. Stop making things up to fit your argument
RE: how is a trade of your second best minor league asset
for a guy under contract only for this year not a 2015 or bust move? That is the very definition of a win now move.
And this was a massive overpay for a rental. Look at what the Os got Parra for. Its almost as though the Mets were so eager to show the world that they would be active for a change that they backed themselves into a corner negotiating wise.
It's the same as the Giants moving Wheeler for a rental named Beltrran. The Mets have taken a two month risk with hopes it's three months. Is it worth it? We will see
Second best prospect or asset nor did he fill a position of need. law had him at "4" on his current list but that's only assuming Conforto and Matz were graduated and they each technicly haven't yet.
In reality ALL the first round picks AND Matz were ahead of Fulmer AND they all are about to fill holes on this team in the next few years. As for assets, Plawecki and Herrera may have lost their prospect status but they are also ahead of Fulmer and could have been used as chips.
So we keep Matz, Conforto, Cecchini, Plawecki, Herrera, Nimmo, and Smith. How are we not set up for the future again?
The going rate for a star player rental is a good prospect. Check what David Price went for. We were lucky Fulmer beefed up his value so much because he was an afterthought heading into 2015.
Hes a quality at-bat, Scherzer said. Hes good.
Scherzer should know. In 13 plate appearances against him, Cespedes is 5-for-11 with a homer and two walks.
Hes hit a couple home runs off me, Scherzer said, off by one. So dont make mistakes. Link - ( New Window )
I know I risk jinxing him here (whatever, jinxes aren't real) but every time he goes out I just know he's going to dominate. He's so fucking good right now. And Harvey looks like he's really getting his mojo back now. Thor has emerged big time.. I just want to see Matz get in on this and take Colon's spot
but I am convinced if they got Cespedes for free, people would complain that he is holding Conforto back. Everyone is entitled to thei opinion, but to me this is winning a lottery and complaining about the taxes they deduct.
but I am convinced if they got Cespedes for free, people would complain that he is holding Conforto back. Everyone is entitled to thei opinion, but to me this is winning a lottery and complaining about the taxes they deduct.
Lol. So true. There's nothing left to complain about I guess. Sandy gave us everything we wanted.
RE: I have the ultimate faith in deGrom right now.
I know I risk jinxing him here (whatever, jinxes aren't real) but every time he goes out I just know he's going to dominate. He's so fucking good right now. And Harvey looks like he's really getting his mojo back now. Thor has emerged big time.. I just want to see Matz get in on this and take Colon's spot
He has to be in the conversation for Cy Young and I probably have him in the top 4-5 pitchers in the game. Hell, Harvey and Syndergaard might be in the top 10. Lol
I would think JdG is 2nd in the CY conversation right now
Definitely have a ton of faith in him and between Cespedes arriving and getting to face Joe Ross again for the 2nd time in 10 days I have a good feeling about today.
as Mike Piazza's home run against the Braves after 9/11.
It was a great moment. It really was. It was the type of moment that makes you realize exactly why we care so much about sports and what it's all about. Just an incredible turnaround and story and one that no Met fan will ever forget.
Definitely have a ton of faith in him and between Cespedes arriving and getting to face Joe Ross again for the 2nd time in 10 days I have a good feeling about today.
I wonder if the deGrom vs Greinke game has any merit if all things end up pretty equal?
They could have done more to promote the addition on Cespedes last night at the game. They played a commercial saying he will play tomorrow but they could have made some sort of announcement at some point regarding the addition
Greinke would need to struggle down the stretch to get things anywhere close to equal (his ERA is still more than half a run better than DeGrom's) so if that happens and their numbers end up close it will just depend on whether or not JdG finishes strong. Whoever finishes stronger/contributes more to their team's finish will likely be the main tie breaker if numbers are equal.
Recall a single cy young matchup where 1 head to head matchup ever came into play. i mean wouldn't in theory a big start vs the nats be more impressive than a game vs greinke? In fact I think the smallest sample size for a player to win a major award was when Chipper shit all over us and won mvp
Greinke would need to struggle down the stretch to get things anywhere close to equal (his ERA is still more than half a run better than DeGrom's) so if that happens and their numbers end up close it will just depend on whether or not JdG finishes strong. Whoever finishes stronger/contributes more to their team's finish will likely be the main tie breaker if numbers are equal.
I agree. Was more just throwing it out there. In a head to head deGrom was the better pitcher. I think Greinke's numbers will come down a little. He's been so otherworldly this year, I actually could see his ERA coming back a half a run. Wouldn't surprise me.
Recall a single cy young matchup where 1 head to head matchup ever came into play. i mean wouldn't in theory a big start vs the nats be more impressive than a game vs greinke? In fact I think the smallest sample size for a player to win a major award was when Chipper shit all over us and won mvp
Yeah I meant it if it was a dead tie considering everything else. Highly unlikely, I agree
there isnt much difference between deGrom, Scherzer, and Cole. deGrom is .20 better in ERA, but the other guys have more Ks and Ws and play on better teams. As silly as Wins are as a category, Cole might win 20+. That will garner him votes.
as Mike Piazza's home run against the Braves after 9/11.
It was a great moment. It really was. It was the type of moment that makes you realize exactly why we care so much about sports and what it's all about. Just an incredible turnaround and story and one that no Met fan will ever forget.
Until they put him back up on the block, next season, before the deadline lol
This is the opportunity that the Mets will have to change the perception of the ownership by going toe to toe for Cepedes. You can laugh at the idea or laugh at me, but I think they will be a serious player for him. Time will tell but I believe they have ability to get it done. Remember Colon, Murphy, Parnell and others come off the books
contract so adding payroll isn't out of the question.
I really want to focus on this year at this time but there's a lot of moving parts for 2016.
Does Conforto deserve a CO spot in 2016? I would say by then most likely. How about Granderson? After this season does he deserve a spot? And then you also have Cuddyer making 12.5 million. I think we'd have to trade Granderson which should be doable. Maybe even eat most of Cuddyer's contract and trade him also. Then I could absolutely see us offering Upton, Cespedes, or Heyward a deal. Too much to think about now. All I know is we have a playoff roster now. Please please please stay relatively healthy for just two more months.
he is that rare combination in a right handed bat that is rare in the game today. This is the guy that can play till he is in his mid to late 30's and be an impact bat. As much as I like Conforto and love what Granderson is giving them, you lock up Cespedes for 6-7 years and you have barring injury a stud in the middle of your order to support the pitching that will be the foundation
he is that rare combination in a right handed bat that is rare in the game today. This is the guy that can play till he is in his mid to late 30's and be an impact bat. As much as I like Conforto and love what Granderson is giving them, you lock up Cespedes for 6-7 years and you have barring injury a stud in the middle of your order to support the pitching that will be the foundation
has earned absolutely nothing at this point. Not knocking him but he should have to compete for a spot.
Sure but if you go into the season WITH Cespedes and Granderson as your CO, there is ZERO chance Conforto can compete for anything.
Shit happens. I don't worry about Conforto if Cespedes earns his money this final 2 months and Granderson plays this well all year. Conforto can wait his turn if they play well enough to block him.
they would make it work. There are not a lot of Right Handed power hitters in baseball that hit for average and can run and throw. They have to build a case for him to want to sign and go all out to get it done
line is you don't move on from a Cespedes (assuming he produces) to "fit in" maybes like Conforto and Nimmo unless you are once again... rebuilding. Rookies generally DON'T perform up to even league average stanards (especially position players) are we kicking the ball down the hall to 2017 now? No thanks.
PS remember the 1 game sample size on Nimmo of a "190 wRC+" well now it's a crisp 19 lol
2-17 through 4 games (yes a ridiculously small sample size)
Cespedes is on pace for 44 doubles, 3 triples, 28 homers 96 rbi while hitting .293 and worth a projected 5.8 WAR. Now I don't think he's going to post 6 WAR seasons very often (or even again necessarily) but you most certainly can't let that go because of maybes like Conforto/Nimmo. This isn't letting Daniel Murphy walk because of Herrera. This would be akin to letting a healthy Wright walk because you have Wilmer Flores.
I only see Nimmo in a platoon 4th OF role anyway so he isn't who Im referring to here really other than him being in the mix. I think Nimmo replaces Kirk as a perfect platoon mate for Lagares. At least thats my hope.
Conforto on the other hand was approaching top 20 prospects in the game status and most thought he was already ready. By next year, Im assuming we will have to clear a spot eventually unless he's just a complete bust.
NOT to sign Cespedes. lol. Just that I think it would be prudent to trade Granderson in the offseason also then. Also you don't know how these contracts are going to work. With the Stanton deal and the way some of these contracts are escalating, we could offer a totally respectable 140 million dollar contract and some asshole team with bottomless pockets could offer him 240 million. Who the hell knows? Cant just say "we have to sign him" without any of understanding of how the market is going to play out.
NOT to sign Cespedes. lol. Just that I think it would be prudent to trade Granderson in the offseason also then. Also you don't know how these contracts are going to work. With the Stanton deal and the way some of these contracts are escalating, we could offer a totally respectable 140 million dollar contract and some asshole team with bottomless pockets could offer him 240 million. Who the hell knows? Cant just say "we have to sign him" without any of understanding of how the market is going to play out.
Ridiculous contract is valid. "Blocking" unproven guys is not.
For the "top prospects in the game type" you certainly have an eye on them getting a spot at some point. Im pretty sure the Cubs will be factoring Schwarber into their plans in 2016. They aren't looking to go sign a massive free agent to the exact spot he's expected to pay.
Like I said in an ideal world Conforto and Cespedes would be your two CO in 2016 with Grandeson going elsewhere. Maybe you sign a cheap vet in case Conforto struggles a little but at some point you also have to go through your growing pains at the major league level regardless. Cant keep Granderson and Cespedes for their entire contracts and tell Conforto we'll see him in 2018. At least, thats not what I would do.
payroll wise but if they go with Wright and Herrera at 2b/3b I'd love to find a way to bring back Uribe. 2b/3b emergency 1b and SS
Me too. I hope they've learned their lesson and sign a few Uribe/Johnson types for depth in 2016. Then again Sandy might believe they will be readily available at the deadline next year if we are in it. Also a Uribe or Johnson might look at their numbers this year and feel they can still start. Who knows?
of moving parts for 2016, like I said. Don't even really see the point of even thinking about it yet. Cespedes is going to a coveted free agent, no doubt about it. Sandy has long wanted a power, right handed bat. He's talked about it constantly. Im betting he offers him a reasonable deal assuming they can clear some pieces... Whether or not Cespedes loved his time as a Met or wants to go for the highest dollar? Who knows. With Upton and Heyward also free agents it should be an interesting market to say the least.
I mean for all we know we are the reigning World Series champs and we just brought in a boatload of extra revenue and the Wilpons insist on it! ;)
roster right now. If everything aligns and we are still adding Matz, Wright, and Blevins... and even Cuddyer for the bench... This team is going to be stacked.
It is now August, and any eta is strictly putting the hometown face on things.
You really think he is going to step right in and hit after this length of layoff?
Next step in this team moving forward is to permanently cut the cord with DW, whatever they have to do. They have his replacement - his name is Wilmer Flores. Much better prospect at the corner than at 2nd base with -- range.
And Granderson is a been there, done that. Use him in 2015, but you cannot let him block young OFs after that. Unlike Nimmo, who frankly I do not know what the floor and ceiling is, Conforto is going to hit.
But you can't let this idiot Collins ruin Conforto. If he takes an 0-fer in 2016 you run him back out. Playing the hot hand only works to a limited extent in baseball. If your best hitters start off slow (not uncommon) do they get a permanent seat on the bench so they can never hit?
If he's decent in CF it opens a whole other door for Conforto this season yet. Even just going from Lagares to Johnson is a huge upgrade offensively also.
On the trade. All I know is that I'm spending four hours in a car if things go well to take my 7 yr girl to the game tonight. I'm so excited for the vibe.
The. I'm doing it again tomorrow night with a couple of friends.
Interesting lineup. Why cespedes 3rd with Duda protecting him?
Wright is playing in baseball games in St. Lucie starting this week. We aren't supposed to be happy with this?? Seriously? Nobody's expecting him to come in and be Barry Bonds here. I don't even think he'll be the full time starter. But having him rotate in and be a part of this team will be a huge lift and we SHOULD be excited for that.
RE: Interesting lineup. Why cespedes 3rd with Duda protecting him?
Cespedes is hitting for a higher average. Similar pop. I like the lineup a lot actually. Swap Flores for Weight in a couple weeks and then tell me how it looks?
I don't know what Wright will or won't do after rehab, but neither do you. Cut ties? He started off the season hitting over .300 in the few games he played and you want to cut him if he is healthy? The stuff I read here, is sometimes worse than the comments section of Met.com and those are certifiable morons.
RE: Interesting lineup. Why cespedes 3rd with Duda protecting him?
I get wanting to put a potent offense on the field. Giving good teams extra outs usually ends badly. CF and SS are key defensive positions. They always have been and always will be.
It is now August, and any eta is strictly putting the hometown face on things.
You really think he is going to step right in and hit after this length of layoff?
Next step in this team moving forward is to permanently cut the cord with DW, whatever they have to do. They have his replacement - his name is Wilmer Flores. Much better prospect at the corner than at 2nd base with -- range.
I get wanting to put a potent offense on the field. Giving good teams extra outs usually ends badly. CF and SS are key defensive positions. They always have been and always will be.
It's risky. Assuming the Mets get the lead, bring in Lags late. Still risky
No
Nimmo, Rosario?
Tigers insider tells me Cespedes is heading to Mets for two right handers.
I hope they make a strong push to resign him after this season
Jennifer Hammond
@HammerFox2 Fuller and Cessa are the players on receiving end for #Tigers in Cespedes deal.
My guess is this is a pure rental and Conforto takes over next season.
He hits thunderous bombs.
So you rank Fulmer higher than Cespedes?
He's likely going to Vegas
I'd try Granderson in CF for a week. See what happens.
This isn't the boyscouts. You don't get merits for trying hard. If Fulmer is Verlander II and Cespedes bombs we will absolutely care and should care.
I don't like this trade at all for the Mets. Cespedes is having a career year batting in a great lineup. He's not a selective hitter so getting good pitches to hit is key for him. He won't get nearly as many with the Mets.
Once a contrarian....
Once a contrarian....
Can you refute the points I made or not. Somehow I doubt it.
Link - ( New Window )
Agreed. But this is a guy who has been quite honest about wanting to have a shot at being a FA so you are looking at a bidding war with a GM who admits he hates megadeals with a cheap owner. It's realisitcally 7-8 years 20 per, I'd love to be shocked but I would be just that.
The article I linked mentions that as well. I just found that contract stipulation pretty weird. Ill take him as a rental and as Dan says the Mets will likely not pay him the money he is looking for.
The fact that this is a NY team worth over a billion dollars and we're concerned about being able to re-sign him is a shame.
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like the move but I'd be absolutely stunned if he remains a Met. 7 years 140-ish is probably his next deal, if not more.
The fact that this is a NY team worth over a billion dollars and we're concerned about being able to re-sign him is a shame.
Well that's my point. If he performs and does really well and earns his money we SHOULD be thinking "he's coming back". Yankees, Cubs, Rangers, Red Sox, Dodgers etc those fans expect that. Ours are expected to accept the opposite. He hits .350 with 8 homers down the stretch "we just think the contract was too rich for our blood".
We were also fielding a AAA lineup for most of the season and have managed to stay within 3 games of a division lead.
If you "don't like" this trade, you are clueless OR you are just ok with saying "next year" every year.
Absolutely. Didnt mean to imply I wasnt happy with the trade, I am thrilled. This should be a fun end of the season.
Kevin999 : 4:39 pm : link : reply
if you don't agree with everyone's opinion you are clueless and stupid.
There are plenty of diverse opinions and back and forth discussion.
He batted .750 the last two years? Fascinating....
And it's debatable that Fulmer is our "best" pitching prospect. He's one of a handful, but can't possibly say unequivocally he's the "best".
But even if he was - they have Harvey, Thor, deGrom now, plus Matz on the mend, and Montero (hopefully this shoulder thing heals). Plus Niese.
And no one is expecting him to match his Detroit totals. But he'll help this lineup signficantly. Yes, he's a free swinger, but he'll get some protection in this lineup.
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one thing I love about Mets threads
Kevin999 : 4:39 pm : link : reply
if you don't agree with everyone's opinion you are clueless and stupid.
There are plenty of diverse opinions and back and forth discussion.
Dont humor him. He's a fucking idiot.
and DW hopefully.
Losing Fulmer hurts. But he will probably need TJ surgery at some point (LOL!)
I'm referring to the next 3-4 years when Gee, Colon, and Niese are gone and Wheeler is back. We have a ton of 5 starter types we can use right now. And Matz should be back soon.
It ain't rocket science...
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the last two years. Now he hits in stacked lineup and of course does better and we give up our best pitching prospect hoping for that level of production? And just for a rental? It doesn't make sense to me. Bruce I could see because he's not a rental.
He batted .750 the last two years? Fascinating....
I'm sure you know what OPS is.
Hell I was just called an idiot for pointing this out.
some of you really need to chill out.
ZGiants98 : 4:44 pm : link : reply
Fulmer is going to end up a number 2 pitcher...
I wouldn't say I don't give a shit. I'll just say some trades you have to make if you want to be taken seriously.
THat sucks. I thought for sure Fred had a helicopter. And hes only in Baltimore
ZGiants98 : 4:44 pm : link : reply
Fulmer is going to end up a number 2 pitcher...
I wouldn't say I don't give a shit. I'll just say some trades you have to make if you want to be taken seriously.
Yeah it's a deal we had to make. A couple of pitching prospects we may never need. Have to roll the dice.
Yoenis Cespedes Verified account
@ynscspds
Thanks to the @tigers organization, my teammates & of course, the fans for your support this seasonNYC, see you soon!
Holy fuck - you don't think Sandy tried that??? Of course that's what everyone wants - a guy like that is going to cost a helluva lot more than a Fulmer.
Even if they got Bruce, he was only locked up for the next two seasons after this one.
And they can STILL lock Cespedes up for "years to come" if Wilpon would open up the fucking purse strings and act like the big market team they are; however, that is a topic for another day.
To not like this deal is fucking moronic. Don't love it? Ok, fair enough. But to not even like it. Completely Ridiculous...
We are FINALLY about to see a legitimate big league team on the field in Flushing in this stadium for basically the first time since it was built.. and people are still not satisfied.
Worry about next year later. We are getting our catcher back and added another legit RH power bat. Maybe David Wright shocks the world and returns in 3 weeks. Who knows.
I'm looking forward to relevant fucking baseball in September and hopefully October for the first time in a LONG time. It has been long enough.
Oddly enough, I was at the first game for another deadline acquisition back in 2000 Mike Bordick (against the Cards I believe).
He homered that day and we made the World Series but I hope this trade works out better for us lol.
One rival exec calls RHP Michael Fulmer, going from #Mets to #Tigers, an unbelievable get for a rental
Probably just option Conforto.
One rival exec calls RHP Michael Fulmer, going from #Mets to #Tigers, an unbelievable get for a rental
Just like Mets received "an unbelievable get" for a rental two years ago...
We are FINALLY about to see a legitimate big league team on the field in Flushing in this stadium for basically the first time since it was built.. and people are still not satisfied.
Worry about next year later. We are getting our catcher back and added another legit RH power bat. Maybe David Wright shocks the world and returns in 3 weeks. Who knows.
I'm looking forward to relevant fucking baseball in September and hopefully October for the first time in a LONG time. It has been long enough.
Amen arc.
Bye bye Muno, Mayberry, Cambell, and Recker.
...and I'm far from the most optimistic when it comes to the Wilponsis.
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DFA? Guess it's between him and Cambell.
Probably just option Conforto.
Get rid of AAA Campbell. He's not needed now. Besides Kirk is a capable CF and a competent bat. Campebll can't play CF
I'm not worried about it. The deal for what it is, is one major prospect for one of the best bats available for a playoff run. That's the going rate. I hope we can sign him in the offseason but I've segmented that into something totally different.
Oddly enough, I was at the first game for another deadline acquisition back in 2000 Mike Bordick (against the Cards I believe).
He homered that day and we made the World Series but I hope this trade works out better for us lol.
F'in Bordick. Melvin Mora turned out to be an awesome player for the Os
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In comment 12397084 ZGiants98 said:
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DFA? Guess it's between him and Cambell.
Probably just option Conforto.
Get rid of AAA Campbell. He's not needed now. Besides Kirk is a capable CF and a competent bat. Campebll can't play CF
Sure but Cuddyer was likely replacing Cambell soon anyway. It's likely going to come down to Kirk or Conforto.
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like he may be available to pinch hit late but not expecting him to play today.
THat sucks. I thought for sure Fred had a helicopter. And hes only in Baltimore
How long does the Amtrak ride take?
I agree but still wish as a NY club we could be more confident in our ownerships financial position.
Just announced he's about to start a rehab assignment. Rosenthal was drunk earlier. Cuddyer will be back soon and I love having a right handed power bat on the bench even if he is WAY overpaid now.
Link - ( New Window )
Yup.
Cannon arm, energy, fire... dare I say... entertainment value. I wish his shirt were on sale tonight at CitiField, I'd buy one.
Love not losing Wheels for a potential rental
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TTH maybe? Great arm.
Cannon arm, energy, fire... dare I say... entertainment value. I wish his shirt were on sale tonight at CitiField, I'd buy one.
Just what this team needs!!
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In comment 12397047 DanMetroMan said:
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like he may be available to pinch hit late but not expecting him to play today.
THat sucks. I thought for sure Fred had a helicopter. And hes only in Baltimore
How long does the Amtrak ride take?
The Acela takes about two hours and 20 minutes. If he leaves now he can be in Queens by 8:30ish.
Damn we wouldn't put that arm in RF?? That sucks.
DanMetroMan : 5:13 pm : link : reply
like Conforto is def going down.
Conforto is the future. There is no need to rush him.
He better be the new Mr October
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In comment 12397069 Rflairr said:
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In comment 12397047 DanMetroMan said:
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like he may be available to pinch hit late but not expecting him to play today.
THat sucks. I thought for sure Fred had a helicopter. And hes only in Baltimore
How long does the Amtrak ride take?
The Acela takes about two hours and 20 minutes. If he leaves now he can be in Queens by 8:30ish.
Buy him a freakin' ticket, Fred.
He better be the new Mr October
I'm going tonight. I wish they would quickly print up some t shirts lol
Time to get excited for the first time since Johan's gem against the Marlins the last Saturday of 08.
That's brilliant
yes. We need that tonight and the next two.
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"The Human Cespedes" on it
That's brilliant
It's been my Fantasy Baseball team name for the last 3 years haha
lol
That's not really fair either. Sometimes you have to make a deal regardless of who ends up winning it in the long run. Fulmer could be the next Nolan Ryan but I still make this trade 10 times out of 10 due to the current circumstances. Fans were about to burn down Citifield without a move like this. It had to be done.
I respect all your opinions, I'm just stating this might not be as great as some are making it out to be. All trades involve risk and this may or may not pan out is my point. I sure hope it does.
Ok, I'm convinced. Cespedes is going to go off here and love it here and re-sign in the offseason! LGM!
If he's a FA, how can a team release him?
Cespedes - ( New Window )
I thought that was strictly to do with the QO. I think any team can sign a free agent.
If I read it correctly, they can redo a contract until 5 days after the WS, if nothing is done by then, they cannot talk until May 15th.
more info - ( New Window )
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I never said I was against the trade just that I didn't "really like it." The Mets have a decent size window with the current pitching staff and I'd rather used the trade chips to acquire someone that will help for more than 3 months. If the Mets win the division it was a great trade, if they fail to make the playoffs it was not. Like a draft you have to wait awhile to see how good or bad this trade was.
That's not really fair either. Sometimes you have to make a deal regardless of who ends up winning it in the long run. Fulmer could be the next Nolan Ryan but I still make this trade 10 times out of 10 due to the current circumstances. Fans were about to burn down Citifield without a move like this. It had to be done.
That logic is very flawed. If the Mets miss the playoffs and Cespedes walks in free agency and Fulmer becomes a great starting pitcher then the trade was a big mistake. You can't make moves to appease the fans thats when you fail as a GM. Now I am not knocking the trade. I am a Braves fan ask me how I feel about the trade of JD Drew for Adam Wainright. At the time the Braves traded a solid prospect for a young power bat with star potential who was supposed to be the missing piece to a championship. Now Atlanta didn't win it all Drew walked and Wainright became one of the best starters in baseball. Now I doubt you praised Atlanta for making that trade because they were going for it.
Are we making this guy our savior for the season? A player who hasn't hit more than 26 homeruns in his career?
Can this one bat get us over the top? So much so, that Collins loses credibility if he doesn't?
This isn't a 2015 or bust move.
This isn't a 2015 or bust move.
I agree. In no way did they mortgage the future in this deal. This isn't selling out for a misguided haymaker at making the playoffs. If this team gets in, with this starting pitching, they can do some damage.
The Collins apologists cite our anemic offense and gloss over his failures to navigate critical moments or push the right buttons on the pitching staff.
If he can't guide this team to the postseason he should get the axe.
Oh my god. @Mets
I can't believe I can actually say this, but is it true that there is now
"A Cespedis for the rest of us"?
#mets
#T7L
5:22 PM - 31 Jul 2015
Fans of teams from multiple cities are lame.
They have a shot and are finally going for it. Good for them and that's why the trade was done. If things go well they can work out the contract issues, especially using that loophole of redoing a contract up until 5 days after the World Series. Hopefully he loves it here and does well and that gets worked out.
He has to stay healthy and keep up with the performance. He's a very good get for a rental but he's also the type of guy u can give up for one esp if you depth in that position.
Wheeler was the #6 pick in the draft, seen as a can't miss.
Oh well, it should be an exciting couple of months, at least..
And he also said he wasn't happy about giving up what he gave up.
I'm not going to close the door on the possibility that maybe they made this deal with an attempt to keep him in mind. If you want to change the way this franchise is perceived, signing him long term does that, just like spending the money for Beltran and Pedro did 10 years ago.
This isn't a 2015 or bust move.
Ok, I'll bite. Managing a professional sports organization successfully revolves predominantly around proper asset management. Expending assets to a losing cause (not winning the championship) is futile and a waste of said assets of which the opportunity cost is continouslyl building on said assets for a more realistic chance at winning a championship. If the time is not right, discarding assets for a meaningless jolt of happiness is futile. If Cespedes bolts and/or the Mets do not capitalize on this trade with a WS than how do you justify discarding valuable assets that could've been utilized at a more opportune time for the club?
You care about meaningful baseball in September and October? Great. Did you enjoy watching our Rangers shaking hands without hoisting the Cup each of the last few seasons? Perhaps you did. Fuck that. Win or build to win. I don't she'll out money and time to come close enough without tasting it.
And this was a massive overpay for a rental. Look at what the Os got Parra for. Its almost as though the Mets were so eager to show the world that they would be active for a change that they backed themselves into a corner negotiating wise.
We've been doing nothing but stockpiling assets for FIVE YEARS now.
The Mets need offense. We have been watching arguably the best staff in baseball get anchored all year by a pitiful, anemic offense. Terrible run production. And somehow, we were still above .500.
Now we have a legitimate MLB lineup to go along with the pitching and are 2 games out of our division with 2 months of baseball to play. We've positioned ourselves nicely to make a run.
And again, this isn't 2015 or bust. It's just not. We will still have an excellent rotation next year. Michael Fulmer is not a known quantity at the MLB level yet. Trading him away stings but you give talent to get talent. That's how it works. The Mets are a better team now than they were yesterday.
If you guys want to just sit on prospects and never move anyone, go on ahead. You'll be watching a team that can't make the postseason for another 5 years. Then the pitchers will be gone and then we'll have nothing. Enjoy.
We've been doing nothing but stockpiling assets for FIVE YEARS now.
The Mets need offense. We have been watching arguably the best staff in baseball get anchored all year by a pitiful, anemic offense. Terrible run production. And somehow, we were still above .500.
Now we have a legitimate MLB lineup to go along with the pitching and are 2 games out of our division with 2 months of baseball to play. We've positioned ourselves nicely to make a run.
And again, this isn't 2015 or bust. It's just not. We will still have an excellent rotation next year. Michael Fulmer is not a known quantity at the MLB level yet. Trading him away stings but you give talent to get talent. That's how it works. The Mets are a better team now than they were yesterday.
If you guys want to just sit on prospects and never move anyone, go on ahead. You'll be watching a team that can't make the postseason for another 5 years. Then the pitchers will be gone and then we'll have nothing. Enjoy.
Yep. The Mets fandom has gotten so used to the slogan "Wait until next year" and waiting on prospects who didn't pan out (generation K, FMart, Milledge).
This is our once in a millenium chance at a title and we have to go for it all within the next 4-5 years.
We've been doing nothing but stockpiling assets for FIVE YEARS now.
The Mets need offense. We have been watching arguably the best staff in baseball get anchored all year by a pitiful, anemic offense. Terrible run production. And somehow, we were still above .500.
Now we have a legitimate MLB lineup to go along with the pitching and are 2 games out of our division with 2 months of baseball to play. We've positioned ourselves nicely to make a run.
And again, this isn't 2015 or bust. It's just not. We will still have an excellent rotation next year. Michael Fulmer is not a known quantity at the MLB level yet. Trading him away stings but you give talent to get talent. That's how it works. The Mets are a better team now than they were yesterday.
If you guys want to just sit on prospects and never move anyone, go on ahead. You'll be watching a team that can't make the postseason for another 5 years. Then the pitchers will be gone and then we'll have nothing. Enjoy.
This
Teams that truly make "all in, this year or bust" moves have significantly lower chances of being good the following season(s) and usually have to blow the whole thing up or their window gets significantly smaller. This is literally nowhere near one of those situations.
If Cespedes catapults this team into October and gives us a chance with this pitching staff, I don't know how anyone could possibly complain.
Fulmer wasn't even close to the best prospect given up at the deadline, either.
I'm looking forward to watching the Mets actually compete for the NLE again.
Ok, I'll bite. Managing a professional sports organization successfully revolves predominantly around proper asset management. Expending assets to a losing cause (not winning the championship) is futile and a waste of said assets of which the opportunity cost is continouslyl building on said assets for a more realistic chance at winning a championship. If the time is not right, discarding assets for a meaningless jolt of happiness is futile. If Cespedes bolts and/or the Mets do not capitalize on this trade with a WS than how do you justify discarding valuable assets that could've been utilized at a more opportune time for the club?
You care about meaningful baseball in September and October? Great. Did you enjoy watching our Rangers shaking hands without hoisting the Cup each of the last few seasons? Perhaps you did. Fuck that. Win or build to win. I don't she'll out money and time to come close enough without tasting it.
This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard and I'm glad you don't run the Mets franchise (or any other pro franchise)...because you would fail.
"Expending assets to a losing cause (not winning the championship) is futile and a waste of said assets"
I guess you can tell the future? Gimme a break. The whole point of expending assets is to provide your team with a better chance to WIN...certainly not to expect to lose. Winning is not guaranteed no matter how good you team is. I figured you would understand this as you are a Rangers fan.
Prospects are a crapshoot. Most never even pan out. The Mets have done an amazing job of stockpiling their assets that they have put them in a position to make moves like this without hurting the major league ballclub. Sure, it stings, but these are moves you have to make.
Let's flip it around...what if Fulmer never amounts to anything. This would be a wasted opportunity. You are okay with this?
Just by glancing at the numbers, the Mets increased payroll this season by $9-10 million with these moves.
Teams that truly make "all in, this year or bust" moves have significantly lower chances of being good the following season(s) and usually have to blow the whole thing up or their window gets significantly smaller. This is literally nowhere near one of those situations.
If Cespedes catapults this team into October and gives us a chance with this pitching staff, I don't know how anyone could possibly complain.
Fulmer wasn't even close to the best prospect given up at the deadline, either.
I'm looking forward to watching the Mets actually compete for the NLE again.
You're not understanding the concept of an asset. Whether or not he had a spot with the big league club was irrelevant. Fulmer was one of the Mets best trade assets. And was traded for a rental whose numbers are inflated by a) a great lineup and b) a great month.
Its a very high risk move. And Parra is having a similar year and plays a higher value position. So given that they're both rentals, they're fairly comparable in value.
It was an overpay.
And yes, I understand exactly what an "asset" is and Fulmer was far from the only one we had. Fulmer wasn't even in the top 10 as far as prospects that were dealt at the deadline.
You're banking on complete hypotheticals. I know what Yoenis Cespedes is at the MLB level. You don't know what Michael Fulmer will be.
The alternative was, what.. not making a move because it would have involved losing an asset? Sitting out another postseason? Go get em next year?
Boy.. we haven't seen enough of that over the years. Let's just keep waiting.
Trading Wheeler vs. Fulmer is a very interesting strategic debate. Someone on twitter posted yesterday that the successful return rate of TJS (70%ish) is more than triple that of a prospect in AA panning out (20%) and I think it's likely undeniable that Wheeler has more value since he's proven he's a major league pitcher. I'd have much spent that extra value to get a player committed beyond one season, but it wasn't in the cards I guess. Everything I've heard about Fulmer's performance this season reminded me of Matz last year, so it certainly stings to lose him, but I'm glad to still have Wheeler who has already shown what he can do. There are never any guarantees with prospects.
On the other side of the ledger, Cespedes gives us the best chance of anyone who got traded to help get our 3 aces to the playoffs, period. Those 3 arms are our organizational strength and right now all 3 are healthy and we are 2 games out of first place. No guarantees that will every be the case again, and any time it is we should be go for it.
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Fulmer could have helped the Mets next year and beyond but there are no guarantees. And this is NOT a move that precludes the Mets from competing beyond this year.
Teams that truly make "all in, this year or bust" moves have significantly lower chances of being good the following season(s) and usually have to blow the whole thing up or their window gets significantly smaller. This is literally nowhere near one of those situations.
If Cespedes catapults this team into October and gives us a chance with this pitching staff, I don't know how anyone could possibly complain.
Fulmer wasn't even close to the best prospect given up at the deadline, either.
I'm looking forward to watching the Mets actually compete for the NLE again.
You're not understanding the concept of an asset. Whether or not he had a spot with the big league club was irrelevant. Fulmer was one of the Mets best trade assets. And was traded for a rental whose numbers are inflated by a) a great lineup and b) a great month.
Its a very high risk move. And Parra is having a similar year and plays a higher value position. So given that they're both rentals, they're fairly comparable in value.
It was an overpay.
You're completely clueless about Cespedes. His numbers are inflated because of a great lineup and a great month? Wtf? First of all, that lineup has NOT been great. He's been the best player in the team. vMart and Miggy have been banged up and haven't been on the field for a big portion of the season. Secondly, what the hell is wrong with having a great month? That doesn't count? You'd rather acquire a player that's having an awful month? And thirdly, he has been playing his home games in Yellowstone.
Cespedes is a very good player. An all around player. Stop making things up to fit your argument
And this was a massive overpay for a rental. Look at what the Os got Parra for. Its almost as though the Mets were so eager to show the world that they would be active for a change that they backed themselves into a corner negotiating wise.
It's the same as the Giants moving Wheeler for a rental named Beltrran. The Mets have taken a two month risk with hopes it's three months. Is it worth it? We will see
In reality ALL the first round picks AND Matz were ahead of Fulmer AND they all are about to fill holes on this team in the next few years. As for assets, Plawecki and Herrera may have lost their prospect status but they are also ahead of Fulmer and could have been used as chips.
So we keep Matz, Conforto, Cecchini, Plawecki, Herrera, Nimmo, and Smith. How are we not set up for the future again?
The going rate for a star player rental is a good prospect. Check what David Price went for. We were lucky Fulmer beefed up his value so much because he was an afterthought heading into 2015.
David PriceVerified account
@DAVIDprice14
I am now a fan of Wilmer Flores!! That kid plays with passion...#respect👊🏾
Hes a quality at-bat, Scherzer said. Hes good.
Scherzer should know. In 13 plate appearances against him, Cespedes is 5-for-11 with a homer and two walks.
Hes hit a couple home runs off me, Scherzer said, off by one. So dont make mistakes.
Link - ( New Window )
Because.. OPS. brah.
"We're going to everything we can to ensure a competitive level"
Only in sports could a person get away with that quote.
Lol. So true. There's nothing left to complain about I guess. Sandy gave us everything we wanted.
He has to be in the conversation for Cy Young and I probably have him in the top 4-5 pitchers in the game. Hell, Harvey and Syndergaard might be in the top 10. Lol
Yoenis Cespedes 28
Alex Gordon 26
Leonys Martin 24
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He made decent moves to improve the team. Hopefully the manager is up to the task. Enjoy Shillelah Law tonight for those going to the game.
"We're going to everything we can to ensure a competitive level"
Only in sports could a person get away with that quote.
Actually most teams, including the Giants, couldn't get away with that quote either. It's about championships and not what SA said.
It was a great moment. It really was. It was the type of moment that makes you realize exactly why we care so much about sports and what it's all about. Just an incredible turnaround and story and one that no Met fan will ever forget.
I think we might've paid too much for a rental but Cespedes is a difference maker and if we can make the playoffs, the movie will be worth it.
How about a big outing from DeGrom tonight?
I wonder if the deGrom vs Greinke game has any merit if all things end up pretty equal?
I agree. Was more just throwing it out there. In a head to head deGrom was the better pitcher. I think Greinke's numbers will come down a little. He's been so otherworldly this year, I actually could see his ERA coming back a half a run. Wouldn't surprise me.
Yeah I meant it if it was a dead tie considering everything else. Highly unlikely, I agree
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as Mike Piazza's home run against the Braves after 9/11.
It was a great moment. It really was. It was the type of moment that makes you realize exactly why we care so much about sports and what it's all about. Just an incredible turnaround and story and one that no Met fan will ever forget.
Until they put him back up on the block, next season, before the deadline lol
It's Greinke's year unless his arm falls off...and the voting won't be close.
I really want to focus on this year at this time but there's a lot of moving parts for 2016.
Does Conforto deserve a CO spot in 2016? I would say by then most likely. How about Granderson? After this season does he deserve a spot? And then you also have Cuddyer making 12.5 million. I think we'd have to trade Granderson which should be doable. Maybe even eat most of Cuddyer's contract and trade him also. Then I could absolutely see us offering Upton, Cespedes, or Heyward a deal. Too much to think about now. All I know is we have a playoff roster now. Please please please stay relatively healthy for just two more months.
Sure but if you go into the season WITH Cespedes and Granderson as your CO, there is ZERO chance Conforto can compete for anything.
I love him. Id offer him 6 years, 140 million.
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has earned absolutely nothing at this point. Not knocking him but he should have to compete for a spot.
Sure but if you go into the season WITH Cespedes and Granderson as your CO, there is ZERO chance Conforto can compete for anything.
Shit happens. I don't worry about Conforto if Cespedes earns his money this final 2 months and Granderson plays this well all year. Conforto can wait his turn if they play well enough to block him.
Ill worry about all this over the holidays. Right now its August 1st, and we are two games out of first.
PS remember the 1 game sample size on Nimmo of a "190 wRC+" well now it's a crisp 19 lol
2-17 through 4 games (yes a ridiculously small sample size)
Cespedes is on pace for 44 doubles, 3 triples, 28 homers 96 rbi while hitting .293 and worth a projected 5.8 WAR. Now I don't think he's going to post 6 WAR seasons very often (or even again necessarily) but you most certainly can't let that go because of maybes like Conforto/Nimmo. This isn't letting Daniel Murphy walk because of Herrera. This would be akin to letting a healthy Wright walk because you have Wilmer Flores.
Conforto on the other hand was approaching top 20 prospects in the game status and most thought he was already ready. By next year, Im assuming we will have to clear a spot eventually unless he's just a complete bust.
Ridiculous contract is valid. "Blocking" unproven guys is not.
Like I said in an ideal world Conforto and Cespedes would be your two CO in 2016 with Grandeson going elsewhere. Maybe you sign a cheap vet in case Conforto struggles a little but at some point you also have to go through your growing pains at the major league level regardless. Cant keep Granderson and Cespedes for their entire contracts and tell Conforto we'll see him in 2018. At least, thats not what I would do.
Me too. I hope they've learned their lesson and sign a few Uribe/Johnson types for depth in 2016. Then again Sandy might believe they will be readily available at the deadline next year if we are in it. Also a Uribe or Johnson might look at their numbers this year and feel they can still start. Who knows?
I mean for all we know we are the reigning World Series champs and we just brought in a boatload of extra revenue and the Wilpons insist on it! ;)
You really think he is going to step right in and hit after this length of layoff?
Next step in this team moving forward is to permanently cut the cord with DW, whatever they have to do. They have his replacement - his name is Wilmer Flores. Much better prospect at the corner than at 2nd base with -- range.
And Granderson is a been there, done that. Use him in 2015, but you cannot let him block young OFs after that. Unlike Nimmo, who frankly I do not know what the floor and ceiling is, Conforto is going to hit.
But you can't let this idiot Collins ruin Conforto. If he takes an 0-fer in 2016 you run him back out. Playing the hot hand only works to a limited extent in baseball. If your best hitters start off slow (not uncommon) do they get a permanent seat on the bench so they can never hit?
Granderson - CF
Murphy - 3B
Cespedes - LF
Duda - 1B
Flores - 2B
Johnson - RF
d'Arnaud - C
deGrom - RHP
Tejada - SS
The. I'm doing it again tomorrow night with a couple of friends.
Cespedes is hitting for a higher average. Similar pop. I like the lineup a lot actually. Swap Flores for Weight in a couple weeks and then tell me how it looks?
lrlr
You really think he is going to step right in and hit after this length of layoff?
Next step in this team moving forward is to permanently cut the cord with DW, whatever they have to do. They have his replacement - his name is Wilmer Flores. Much better prospect at the corner than at 2nd base with -- range.
Herera to 2nd and Flores to 3rd.
It's risky. Assuming the Mets get the lead, bring in Lags late. Still risky