Ok with giving up Fulmer to get a good bat but I would not be happy if Cespedes walks. I liked the Bruce deal bc we would have had him for a couple of years after this one.
Oh well, it should be an exciting couple of months, at least..
I caught SNY's replay of Alderson talking about the trade
One part I thought stuck out. He said acquiring a player like this would help the offense, but also provide energy for the clubhouse, the fans *and change the way this team is perceived*
And he also said he wasn't happy about giving up what he gave up.
I'm not going to close the door on the possibility that maybe they made this deal with an attempt to keep him in mind. If you want to change the way this franchise is perceived, signing him long term does that, just like spending the money for Beltran and Pedro did 10 years ago.
If the Mets fall short this year and Cespedes goes elsewhere and Fulmer winds up being good, I still don't think it's a mistake. Sometimes you have to take chances and be a little aggressive. It's not like this trade wrecks the Mets future somehow. They'll still have a lot of pitching, Conforto will be ready next year, maybe Cecchini is ready.. maybe they add another bat somehow.
This isn't a 2015 or bust move.
Ok, I'll bite. Managing a professional sports organization successfully revolves predominantly around proper asset management. Expending assets to a losing cause (not winning the championship) is futile and a waste of said assets of which the opportunity cost is continouslyl building on said assets for a more realistic chance at winning a championship. If the time is not right, discarding assets for a meaningless jolt of happiness is futile. If Cespedes bolts and/or the Mets do not capitalize on this trade with a WS than how do you justify discarding valuable assets that could've been utilized at a more opportune time for the club?
You care about meaningful baseball in September and October? Great. Did you enjoy watching our Rangers shaking hands without hoisting the Cup each of the last few seasons? Perhaps you did. Fuck that. Win or build to win. I don't she'll out money and time to come close enough without tasting it.
how is a trade of your second best minor league asset
for a guy under contract only for this year not a 2015 or bust move? That is the very definition of a win now move.
And this was a massive overpay for a rental. Look at what the Os got Parra for. Its almost as though the Mets were so eager to show the world that they would be active for a change that they backed themselves into a corner negotiating wise.
Some of you guys would just sit on assets forever if you could. You'd never trade anyone, never make a move and be too scared to be aggressive.
We've been doing nothing but stockpiling assets for FIVE YEARS now.
The Mets need offense. We have been watching arguably the best staff in baseball get anchored all year by a pitiful, anemic offense. Terrible run production. And somehow, we were still above .500.
Now we have a legitimate MLB lineup to go along with the pitching and are 2 games out of our division with 2 months of baseball to play. We've positioned ourselves nicely to make a run.
And again, this isn't 2015 or bust. It's just not. We will still have an excellent rotation next year. Michael Fulmer is not a known quantity at the MLB level yet. Trading him away stings but you give talent to get talent. That's how it works. The Mets are a better team now than they were yesterday.
If you guys want to just sit on prospects and never move anyone, go on ahead. You'll be watching a team that can't make the postseason for another 5 years. Then the pitchers will be gone and then we'll have nothing. Enjoy.
And give me a fucking break with "look what the O's got Parra for"..
Some of you guys would just sit on assets forever if you could. You'd never trade anyone, never make a move and be too scared to be aggressive.
We've been doing nothing but stockpiling assets for FIVE YEARS now.
The Mets need offense. We have been watching arguably the best staff in baseball get anchored all year by a pitiful, anemic offense. Terrible run production. And somehow, we were still above .500.
Now we have a legitimate MLB lineup to go along with the pitching and are 2 games out of our division with 2 months of baseball to play. We've positioned ourselves nicely to make a run.
And again, this isn't 2015 or bust. It's just not. We will still have an excellent rotation next year. Michael Fulmer is not a known quantity at the MLB level yet. Trading him away stings but you give talent to get talent. That's how it works. The Mets are a better team now than they were yesterday.
If you guys want to just sit on prospects and never move anyone, go on ahead. You'll be watching a team that can't make the postseason for another 5 years. Then the pitchers will be gone and then we'll have nothing. Enjoy.
Yep. The Mets fandom has gotten so used to the slogan "Wait until next year" and waiting on prospects who didn't pan out (generation K, FMart, Milledge).
This is our once in a millenium chance at a title and we have to go for it all within the next 4-5 years.
But who fucking cares about 5 yrs from now? Sports is about winning championships and if you have a chance for one you go for it. You rely on the scouts to restock and the coaches to develop the next batch of guys. as much as we kill the organization, these guys seem to be doing just that
Some of you guys would just sit on assets forever if you could. You'd never trade anyone, never make a move and be too scared to be aggressive.
We've been doing nothing but stockpiling assets for FIVE YEARS now.
The Mets need offense. We have been watching arguably the best staff in baseball get anchored all year by a pitiful, anemic offense. Terrible run production. And somehow, we were still above .500.
Now we have a legitimate MLB lineup to go along with the pitching and are 2 games out of our division with 2 months of baseball to play. We've positioned ourselves nicely to make a run.
And again, this isn't 2015 or bust. It's just not. We will still have an excellent rotation next year. Michael Fulmer is not a known quantity at the MLB level yet. Trading him away stings but you give talent to get talent. That's how it works. The Mets are a better team now than they were yesterday.
If you guys want to just sit on prospects and never move anyone, go on ahead. You'll be watching a team that can't make the postseason for another 5 years. Then the pitchers will be gone and then we'll have nothing. Enjoy.
Fulmer could have helped the Mets next year and beyond but there are no guarantees. And this is NOT a move that precludes the Mets from competing beyond this year.
Teams that truly make "all in, this year or bust" moves have significantly lower chances of being good the following season(s) and usually have to blow the whole thing up or their window gets significantly smaller. This is literally nowhere near one of those situations.
If Cespedes catapults this team into October and gives us a chance with this pitching staff, I don't know how anyone could possibly complain.
Fulmer wasn't even close to the best prospect given up at the deadline, either.
I'm looking forward to watching the Mets actually compete for the NLE again.
Ok, I'll bite. Managing a professional sports organization successfully revolves predominantly around proper asset management. Expending assets to a losing cause (not winning the championship) is futile and a waste of said assets of which the opportunity cost is continouslyl building on said assets for a more realistic chance at winning a championship. If the time is not right, discarding assets for a meaningless jolt of happiness is futile. If Cespedes bolts and/or the Mets do not capitalize on this trade with a WS than how do you justify discarding valuable assets that could've been utilized at a more opportune time for the club?
You care about meaningful baseball in September and October? Great. Did you enjoy watching our Rangers shaking hands without hoisting the Cup each of the last few seasons? Perhaps you did. Fuck that. Win or build to win. I don't she'll out money and time to come close enough without tasting it.
This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard and I'm glad you don't run the Mets franchise (or any other pro franchise)...because you would fail.
"Expending assets to a losing cause (not winning the championship) is futile and a waste of said assets"
I guess you can tell the future? Gimme a break. The whole point of expending assets is to provide your team with a better chance to WIN...certainly not to expect to lose. Winning is not guaranteed no matter how good you team is. I figured you would understand this as you are a Rangers fan.
Prospects are a crapshoot. Most never even pan out. The Mets have done an amazing job of stockpiling their assets that they have put them in a position to make moves like this without hurting the major league ballclub. Sure, it stings, but these are moves you have to make.
Let's flip it around...what if Fulmer never amounts to anything. This would be a wasted opportunity. You are okay with this?
and with the addition of the four players we acquired, it should be even better (assuming we stay in the hunt). I think the owners kept their word when they said they'd increase the payroll if attendance went up and I think they'll follow through in the off season to continue with a higher payroll.
Just by glancing at the numbers, the Mets increased payroll this season by $9-10 million with these moves.
Fulmer could have helped the Mets next year and beyond but there are no guarantees. And this is NOT a move that precludes the Mets from competing beyond this year.
Teams that truly make "all in, this year or bust" moves have significantly lower chances of being good the following season(s) and usually have to blow the whole thing up or their window gets significantly smaller. This is literally nowhere near one of those situations.
If Cespedes catapults this team into October and gives us a chance with this pitching staff, I don't know how anyone could possibly complain.
Fulmer wasn't even close to the best prospect given up at the deadline, either.
I'm looking forward to watching the Mets actually compete for the NLE again.
You're not understanding the concept of an asset. Whether or not he had a spot with the big league club was irrelevant. Fulmer was one of the Mets best trade assets. And was traded for a rental whose numbers are inflated by a) a great lineup and b) a great month.
Its a very high risk move. And Parra is having a similar year and plays a higher value position. So given that they're both rentals, they're fairly comparable in value.
Because of lineup? Give it a rest man. He has avg over 20hrs and 80rbi in the majors. He started out on a similar offense as the mets in oakland. If you think cespedes and parra are comparable you are a lunatic.
If you are going to compare Parra and Cespedes as if they are the
Cespedes has been the most valuable player on the team this year. He's not succeeding because of them and his production remained constant with Cabrera out of the lineup. He and Parra are not even remotely comparable players. I know you like to use the OPS column and nothing else but if you actually watch these two players, they are nothing alike.
And yes, I understand exactly what an "asset" is and Fulmer was far from the only one we had. Fulmer wasn't even in the top 10 as far as prospects that were dealt at the deadline.
You're banking on complete hypotheticals. I know what Yoenis Cespedes is at the MLB level. You don't know what Michael Fulmer will be.
The alternative was, what.. not making a move because it would have involved losing an asset? Sitting out another postseason? Go get em next year?
Boy.. we haven't seen enough of that over the years. Let's just keep waiting.
Fulmer has looked awesome, but this time last yr he's an afterthought
Same with Meisner. In the offseason Sickels had Meisner at #20 in our top 20 and Fulmer as an honorable mention. Fangraphs had Fulmer at #12 and Meisner at #22. Law had them #15-16. That isn't meant to diminish their respective performances to date or their value at this moment, just sort of a reminder that this organization has done a great job finding arms and has earned some benefit of doubt because every year we've had 2-3 new prospects "breakout". He's about to undergo TJS, but Blake Taylor as an example was a former 2nd round pick HS thrower who right now we don't think anything of. In 2-3 years he could be right where Fulmer is now, who also had battled a ton of injuries early in his career. Andrew Church is another 2nd round HS pick in Brooklyn right now. Last year they picked some interesting arms like Secrest, Prevost and Manoah, this year they took a ton of arms. It may take a season or two to see it reflected on the prospect sites, but I have no doubt they will rebuild the pitching depth. Not to mention Montero, Bowman, Ynoa, Molina (also inj).
Trading Wheeler vs. Fulmer is a very interesting strategic debate. Someone on twitter posted yesterday that the successful return rate of TJS (70%ish) is more than triple that of a prospect in AA panning out (20%) and I think it's likely undeniable that Wheeler has more value since he's proven he's a major league pitcher. I'd have much spent that extra value to get a player committed beyond one season, but it wasn't in the cards I guess. Everything I've heard about Fulmer's performance this season reminded me of Matz last year, so it certainly stings to lose him, but I'm glad to still have Wheeler who has already shown what he can do. There are never any guarantees with prospects.
On the other side of the ledger, Cespedes gives us the best chance of anyone who got traded to help get our 3 aces to the playoffs, period. Those 3 arms are our organizational strength and right now all 3 are healthy and we are 2 games out of first place. No guarantees that will every be the case again, and any time it is we should be go for it.
Fulmer could have helped the Mets next year and beyond but there are no guarantees. And this is NOT a move that precludes the Mets from competing beyond this year.
Teams that truly make "all in, this year or bust" moves have significantly lower chances of being good the following season(s) and usually have to blow the whole thing up or their window gets significantly smaller. This is literally nowhere near one of those situations.
If Cespedes catapults this team into October and gives us a chance with this pitching staff, I don't know how anyone could possibly complain.
Fulmer wasn't even close to the best prospect given up at the deadline, either.
I'm looking forward to watching the Mets actually compete for the NLE again.
You're not understanding the concept of an asset. Whether or not he had a spot with the big league club was irrelevant. Fulmer was one of the Mets best trade assets. And was traded for a rental whose numbers are inflated by a) a great lineup and b) a great month.
Its a very high risk move. And Parra is having a similar year and plays a higher value position. So given that they're both rentals, they're fairly comparable in value.
It was an overpay.
You're completely clueless about Cespedes. His numbers are inflated because of a great lineup and a great month? Wtf? First of all, that lineup has NOT been great. He's been the best player in the team. vMart and Miggy have been banged up and haven't been on the field for a big portion of the season. Secondly, what the hell is wrong with having a great month? That doesn't count? You'd rather acquire a player that's having an awful month? And thirdly, he has been playing his home games in Yellowstone.
Cespedes is a very good player. An all around player. Stop making things up to fit your argument
RE: how is a trade of your second best minor league asset
for a guy under contract only for this year not a 2015 or bust move? That is the very definition of a win now move.
And this was a massive overpay for a rental. Look at what the Os got Parra for. Its almost as though the Mets were so eager to show the world that they would be active for a change that they backed themselves into a corner negotiating wise.
It's the same as the Giants moving Wheeler for a rental named Beltrran. The Mets have taken a two month risk with hopes it's three months. Is it worth it? We will see
Second best prospect or asset nor did he fill a position of need. law had him at "4" on his current list but that's only assuming Conforto and Matz were graduated and they each technicly haven't yet.
In reality ALL the first round picks AND Matz were ahead of Fulmer AND they all are about to fill holes on this team in the next few years. As for assets, Plawecki and Herrera may have lost their prospect status but they are also ahead of Fulmer and could have been used as chips.
So we keep Matz, Conforto, Cecchini, Plawecki, Herrera, Nimmo, and Smith. How are we not set up for the future again?
The going rate for a star player rental is a good prospect. Check what David Price went for. We were lucky Fulmer beefed up his value so much because he was an afterthought heading into 2015.
Hes a quality at-bat, Scherzer said. Hes good.
Scherzer should know. In 13 plate appearances against him, Cespedes is 5-for-11 with a homer and two walks.
Hes hit a couple home runs off me, Scherzer said, off by one. So dont make mistakes. Link - ( New Window )
I know I risk jinxing him here (whatever, jinxes aren't real) but every time he goes out I just know he's going to dominate. He's so fucking good right now. And Harvey looks like he's really getting his mojo back now. Thor has emerged big time.. I just want to see Matz get in on this and take Colon's spot
but I am convinced if they got Cespedes for free, people would complain that he is holding Conforto back. Everyone is entitled to thei opinion, but to me this is winning a lottery and complaining about the taxes they deduct.
but I am convinced if they got Cespedes for free, people would complain that he is holding Conforto back. Everyone is entitled to thei opinion, but to me this is winning a lottery and complaining about the taxes they deduct.
Lol. So true. There's nothing left to complain about I guess. Sandy gave us everything we wanted.
RE: I have the ultimate faith in deGrom right now.
I know I risk jinxing him here (whatever, jinxes aren't real) but every time he goes out I just know he's going to dominate. He's so fucking good right now. And Harvey looks like he's really getting his mojo back now. Thor has emerged big time.. I just want to see Matz get in on this and take Colon's spot
He has to be in the conversation for Cy Young and I probably have him in the top 4-5 pitchers in the game. Hell, Harvey and Syndergaard might be in the top 10. Lol
I would think JdG is 2nd in the CY conversation right now
Definitely have a ton of faith in him and between Cespedes arriving and getting to face Joe Ross again for the 2nd time in 10 days I have a good feeling about today.
as Mike Piazza's home run against the Braves after 9/11.
It was a great moment. It really was. It was the type of moment that makes you realize exactly why we care so much about sports and what it's all about. Just an incredible turnaround and story and one that no Met fan will ever forget.
Definitely have a ton of faith in him and between Cespedes arriving and getting to face Joe Ross again for the 2nd time in 10 days I have a good feeling about today.
I wonder if the deGrom vs Greinke game has any merit if all things end up pretty equal?
They could have done more to promote the addition on Cespedes last night at the game. They played a commercial saying he will play tomorrow but they could have made some sort of announcement at some point regarding the addition
Greinke would need to struggle down the stretch to get things anywhere close to equal (his ERA is still more than half a run better than DeGrom's) so if that happens and their numbers end up close it will just depend on whether or not JdG finishes strong. Whoever finishes stronger/contributes more to their team's finish will likely be the main tie breaker if numbers are equal.
Recall a single cy young matchup where 1 head to head matchup ever came into play. i mean wouldn't in theory a big start vs the nats be more impressive than a game vs greinke? In fact I think the smallest sample size for a player to win a major award was when Chipper shit all over us and won mvp
Greinke would need to struggle down the stretch to get things anywhere close to equal (his ERA is still more than half a run better than DeGrom's) so if that happens and their numbers end up close it will just depend on whether or not JdG finishes strong. Whoever finishes stronger/contributes more to their team's finish will likely be the main tie breaker if numbers are equal.
I agree. Was more just throwing it out there. In a head to head deGrom was the better pitcher. I think Greinke's numbers will come down a little. He's been so otherworldly this year, I actually could see his ERA coming back a half a run. Wouldn't surprise me.
Recall a single cy young matchup where 1 head to head matchup ever came into play. i mean wouldn't in theory a big start vs the nats be more impressive than a game vs greinke? In fact I think the smallest sample size for a player to win a major award was when Chipper shit all over us and won mvp
Yeah I meant it if it was a dead tie considering everything else. Highly unlikely, I agree
there isnt much difference between deGrom, Scherzer, and Cole. deGrom is .20 better in ERA, but the other guys have more Ks and Ws and play on better teams. As silly as Wins are as a category, Cole might win 20+. That will garner him votes.
as Mike Piazza's home run against the Braves after 9/11.
It was a great moment. It really was. It was the type of moment that makes you realize exactly why we care so much about sports and what it's all about. Just an incredible turnaround and story and one that no Met fan will ever forget.
Until they put him back up on the block, next season, before the deadline lol
Oh well, it should be an exciting couple of months, at least..
And he also said he wasn't happy about giving up what he gave up.
I'm not going to close the door on the possibility that maybe they made this deal with an attempt to keep him in mind. If you want to change the way this franchise is perceived, signing him long term does that, just like spending the money for Beltran and Pedro did 10 years ago.
This isn't a 2015 or bust move.
Ok, I'll bite. Managing a professional sports organization successfully revolves predominantly around proper asset management. Expending assets to a losing cause (not winning the championship) is futile and a waste of said assets of which the opportunity cost is continouslyl building on said assets for a more realistic chance at winning a championship. If the time is not right, discarding assets for a meaningless jolt of happiness is futile. If Cespedes bolts and/or the Mets do not capitalize on this trade with a WS than how do you justify discarding valuable assets that could've been utilized at a more opportune time for the club?
You care about meaningful baseball in September and October? Great. Did you enjoy watching our Rangers shaking hands without hoisting the Cup each of the last few seasons? Perhaps you did. Fuck that. Win or build to win. I don't she'll out money and time to come close enough without tasting it.
And this was a massive overpay for a rental. Look at what the Os got Parra for. Its almost as though the Mets were so eager to show the world that they would be active for a change that they backed themselves into a corner negotiating wise.
We've been doing nothing but stockpiling assets for FIVE YEARS now.
The Mets need offense. We have been watching arguably the best staff in baseball get anchored all year by a pitiful, anemic offense. Terrible run production. And somehow, we were still above .500.
Now we have a legitimate MLB lineup to go along with the pitching and are 2 games out of our division with 2 months of baseball to play. We've positioned ourselves nicely to make a run.
And again, this isn't 2015 or bust. It's just not. We will still have an excellent rotation next year. Michael Fulmer is not a known quantity at the MLB level yet. Trading him away stings but you give talent to get talent. That's how it works. The Mets are a better team now than they were yesterday.
If you guys want to just sit on prospects and never move anyone, go on ahead. You'll be watching a team that can't make the postseason for another 5 years. Then the pitchers will be gone and then we'll have nothing. Enjoy.
We've been doing nothing but stockpiling assets for FIVE YEARS now.
The Mets need offense. We have been watching arguably the best staff in baseball get anchored all year by a pitiful, anemic offense. Terrible run production. And somehow, we were still above .500.
Now we have a legitimate MLB lineup to go along with the pitching and are 2 games out of our division with 2 months of baseball to play. We've positioned ourselves nicely to make a run.
And again, this isn't 2015 or bust. It's just not. We will still have an excellent rotation next year. Michael Fulmer is not a known quantity at the MLB level yet. Trading him away stings but you give talent to get talent. That's how it works. The Mets are a better team now than they were yesterday.
If you guys want to just sit on prospects and never move anyone, go on ahead. You'll be watching a team that can't make the postseason for another 5 years. Then the pitchers will be gone and then we'll have nothing. Enjoy.
Yep. The Mets fandom has gotten so used to the slogan "Wait until next year" and waiting on prospects who didn't pan out (generation K, FMart, Milledge).
This is our once in a millenium chance at a title and we have to go for it all within the next 4-5 years.
We've been doing nothing but stockpiling assets for FIVE YEARS now.
The Mets need offense. We have been watching arguably the best staff in baseball get anchored all year by a pitiful, anemic offense. Terrible run production. And somehow, we were still above .500.
Now we have a legitimate MLB lineup to go along with the pitching and are 2 games out of our division with 2 months of baseball to play. We've positioned ourselves nicely to make a run.
And again, this isn't 2015 or bust. It's just not. We will still have an excellent rotation next year. Michael Fulmer is not a known quantity at the MLB level yet. Trading him away stings but you give talent to get talent. That's how it works. The Mets are a better team now than they were yesterday.
If you guys want to just sit on prospects and never move anyone, go on ahead. You'll be watching a team that can't make the postseason for another 5 years. Then the pitchers will be gone and then we'll have nothing. Enjoy.
This
Teams that truly make "all in, this year or bust" moves have significantly lower chances of being good the following season(s) and usually have to blow the whole thing up or their window gets significantly smaller. This is literally nowhere near one of those situations.
If Cespedes catapults this team into October and gives us a chance with this pitching staff, I don't know how anyone could possibly complain.
Fulmer wasn't even close to the best prospect given up at the deadline, either.
I'm looking forward to watching the Mets actually compete for the NLE again.
Ok, I'll bite. Managing a professional sports organization successfully revolves predominantly around proper asset management. Expending assets to a losing cause (not winning the championship) is futile and a waste of said assets of which the opportunity cost is continouslyl building on said assets for a more realistic chance at winning a championship. If the time is not right, discarding assets for a meaningless jolt of happiness is futile. If Cespedes bolts and/or the Mets do not capitalize on this trade with a WS than how do you justify discarding valuable assets that could've been utilized at a more opportune time for the club?
You care about meaningful baseball in September and October? Great. Did you enjoy watching our Rangers shaking hands without hoisting the Cup each of the last few seasons? Perhaps you did. Fuck that. Win or build to win. I don't she'll out money and time to come close enough without tasting it.
This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard and I'm glad you don't run the Mets franchise (or any other pro franchise)...because you would fail.
"Expending assets to a losing cause (not winning the championship) is futile and a waste of said assets"
I guess you can tell the future? Gimme a break. The whole point of expending assets is to provide your team with a better chance to WIN...certainly not to expect to lose. Winning is not guaranteed no matter how good you team is. I figured you would understand this as you are a Rangers fan.
Prospects are a crapshoot. Most never even pan out. The Mets have done an amazing job of stockpiling their assets that they have put them in a position to make moves like this without hurting the major league ballclub. Sure, it stings, but these are moves you have to make.
Let's flip it around...what if Fulmer never amounts to anything. This would be a wasted opportunity. You are okay with this?
Just by glancing at the numbers, the Mets increased payroll this season by $9-10 million with these moves.
Teams that truly make "all in, this year or bust" moves have significantly lower chances of being good the following season(s) and usually have to blow the whole thing up or their window gets significantly smaller. This is literally nowhere near one of those situations.
If Cespedes catapults this team into October and gives us a chance with this pitching staff, I don't know how anyone could possibly complain.
Fulmer wasn't even close to the best prospect given up at the deadline, either.
I'm looking forward to watching the Mets actually compete for the NLE again.
You're not understanding the concept of an asset. Whether or not he had a spot with the big league club was irrelevant. Fulmer was one of the Mets best trade assets. And was traded for a rental whose numbers are inflated by a) a great lineup and b) a great month.
Its a very high risk move. And Parra is having a similar year and plays a higher value position. So given that they're both rentals, they're fairly comparable in value.
It was an overpay.
And yes, I understand exactly what an "asset" is and Fulmer was far from the only one we had. Fulmer wasn't even in the top 10 as far as prospects that were dealt at the deadline.
You're banking on complete hypotheticals. I know what Yoenis Cespedes is at the MLB level. You don't know what Michael Fulmer will be.
The alternative was, what.. not making a move because it would have involved losing an asset? Sitting out another postseason? Go get em next year?
Boy.. we haven't seen enough of that over the years. Let's just keep waiting.
Trading Wheeler vs. Fulmer is a very interesting strategic debate. Someone on twitter posted yesterday that the successful return rate of TJS (70%ish) is more than triple that of a prospect in AA panning out (20%) and I think it's likely undeniable that Wheeler has more value since he's proven he's a major league pitcher. I'd have much spent that extra value to get a player committed beyond one season, but it wasn't in the cards I guess. Everything I've heard about Fulmer's performance this season reminded me of Matz last year, so it certainly stings to lose him, but I'm glad to still have Wheeler who has already shown what he can do. There are never any guarantees with prospects.
On the other side of the ledger, Cespedes gives us the best chance of anyone who got traded to help get our 3 aces to the playoffs, period. Those 3 arms are our organizational strength and right now all 3 are healthy and we are 2 games out of first place. No guarantees that will every be the case again, and any time it is we should be go for it.
Quote:
Fulmer could have helped the Mets next year and beyond but there are no guarantees. And this is NOT a move that precludes the Mets from competing beyond this year.
Teams that truly make "all in, this year or bust" moves have significantly lower chances of being good the following season(s) and usually have to blow the whole thing up or their window gets significantly smaller. This is literally nowhere near one of those situations.
If Cespedes catapults this team into October and gives us a chance with this pitching staff, I don't know how anyone could possibly complain.
Fulmer wasn't even close to the best prospect given up at the deadline, either.
I'm looking forward to watching the Mets actually compete for the NLE again.
You're not understanding the concept of an asset. Whether or not he had a spot with the big league club was irrelevant. Fulmer was one of the Mets best trade assets. And was traded for a rental whose numbers are inflated by a) a great lineup and b) a great month.
Its a very high risk move. And Parra is having a similar year and plays a higher value position. So given that they're both rentals, they're fairly comparable in value.
It was an overpay.
You're completely clueless about Cespedes. His numbers are inflated because of a great lineup and a great month? Wtf? First of all, that lineup has NOT been great. He's been the best player in the team. vMart and Miggy have been banged up and haven't been on the field for a big portion of the season. Secondly, what the hell is wrong with having a great month? That doesn't count? You'd rather acquire a player that's having an awful month? And thirdly, he has been playing his home games in Yellowstone.
Cespedes is a very good player. An all around player. Stop making things up to fit your argument
And this was a massive overpay for a rental. Look at what the Os got Parra for. Its almost as though the Mets were so eager to show the world that they would be active for a change that they backed themselves into a corner negotiating wise.
It's the same as the Giants moving Wheeler for a rental named Beltrran. The Mets have taken a two month risk with hopes it's three months. Is it worth it? We will see
In reality ALL the first round picks AND Matz were ahead of Fulmer AND they all are about to fill holes on this team in the next few years. As for assets, Plawecki and Herrera may have lost their prospect status but they are also ahead of Fulmer and could have been used as chips.
So we keep Matz, Conforto, Cecchini, Plawecki, Herrera, Nimmo, and Smith. How are we not set up for the future again?
The going rate for a star player rental is a good prospect. Check what David Price went for. We were lucky Fulmer beefed up his value so much because he was an afterthought heading into 2015.
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I am now a fan of Wilmer Flores!! That kid plays with passion...#respect👊🏾
Hes a quality at-bat, Scherzer said. Hes good.
Scherzer should know. In 13 plate appearances against him, Cespedes is 5-for-11 with a homer and two walks.
Hes hit a couple home runs off me, Scherzer said, off by one. So dont make mistakes.
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Because.. OPS. brah.
"We're going to everything we can to ensure a competitive level"
Only in sports could a person get away with that quote.
Lol. So true. There's nothing left to complain about I guess. Sandy gave us everything we wanted.
He has to be in the conversation for Cy Young and I probably have him in the top 4-5 pitchers in the game. Hell, Harvey and Syndergaard might be in the top 10. Lol
Yoenis Cespedes 28
Alex Gordon 26
Leonys Martin 24
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He made decent moves to improve the team. Hopefully the manager is up to the task. Enjoy Shillelah Law tonight for those going to the game.
"We're going to everything we can to ensure a competitive level"
Only in sports could a person get away with that quote.
Actually most teams, including the Giants, couldn't get away with that quote either. It's about championships and not what SA said.
It was a great moment. It really was. It was the type of moment that makes you realize exactly why we care so much about sports and what it's all about. Just an incredible turnaround and story and one that no Met fan will ever forget.
I think we might've paid too much for a rental but Cespedes is a difference maker and if we can make the playoffs, the movie will be worth it.
How about a big outing from DeGrom tonight?
I wonder if the deGrom vs Greinke game has any merit if all things end up pretty equal?
I agree. Was more just throwing it out there. In a head to head deGrom was the better pitcher. I think Greinke's numbers will come down a little. He's been so otherworldly this year, I actually could see his ERA coming back a half a run. Wouldn't surprise me.
Yeah I meant it if it was a dead tie considering everything else. Highly unlikely, I agree
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as Mike Piazza's home run against the Braves after 9/11.
It was a great moment. It really was. It was the type of moment that makes you realize exactly why we care so much about sports and what it's all about. Just an incredible turnaround and story and one that no Met fan will ever forget.
Until they put him back up on the block, next season, before the deadline lol