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A Giant Mistake or Simple Business?

Tony-in-Wichita : 8/1/2015 12:02 am
JPP has handled things terribly from the perspective of a Giants fan. I'm frustrated, Mr. Mara sounds fed up, and Coughlin must make the playoffs. We need answers.. And now! The season is far away.. Yet right around the corner. Not to mention the top quality doctors and facilities at the Giant's disposal.


Now, put your own fan biase aside, can you understand why a player (not under contract) would try and gain leverage by any means necessary?

Is there some deadline his agent is eyeing before allowing JPP to sign?

Why wait until he passes the physical? He loses out on money whether he's on some list or doesn't sign. Please try and explain his agents advice...
I'll Play  
Trainmaster : 8/1/2015 12:25 am : link
My guess is his hand / arm are in really bad shape (this is partially a guess from the photos, which BB56 cautions us are NOT the basis for a prognosis).

There is no value in JPP "showing his hand" (pun intended) and confirming the damage. Right now, the Giants are the only team that can pay JPP in 2015. If JPP's agent is successful in pissing the Giants off to the extent that they withdraw the tender and release him, he now has a pool of 31 teams that might be willing to pay him in 2015.

IF there is a chance JPP's career is over, he's banking on one of the 31 medical departments to conclude his injuries aren't that bad and signing JPP to some kind of a contract is a worthwhile risk.

RE: I'll Play  
Mad Mike : 8/1/2015 12:33 am : link
In comment 12397814 Trainmaster said:
Quote:
If JPP's agent is successful in pissing the Giants off to the extent that they withdraw the tender and release him, he now has a pool of 31 teams that might be willing to pay him in 2015.

How would JPP's current course of action lead to the Giants releasing him? If he's not reporting, they have no need to release him, they can simply wait - that may be frustrating, but it's costless to them.
He has zero leverage.  
LauderdaleMatty : 8/1/2015 1:06 am : link
IMO the Giants would have negotiated with his agents but the agent decided against that. Now he gets zero $$$ until he signs. The again gets nothing until he can play.

Up until his injury had zero issue with his stance. Hey. If u want to play under the one year deal done too. But if his hand is so bad all he is is giving the Giants extra cash for next year. If it isn't he could maybe come back. But as it stands his decisions make very little sense.

He has no leverage at all
The Premise Was  
Trainmaster : 8/1/2015 1:31 am : link
Quote:
... can you understand why a player (not under contract) would try and gain leverage ...


Given the events of 7/4/15, I think JPP and his "handlers" had two choices:

1) Come clean, accept responsibility, try to make the best of a very bad situation, agree to some kind of pro-rated, conditional contract, report on time, do cardio conditioning, learn the new defense etc.

2) Keep everyone in the dark, maybe initially exaggerate the extent of the injuries, try to piss the Giants off and get them to release him.

I agree in either case, he really doesn't have any leverage. JPP has obviously not chosen 1) above. The only thing that remotely matches his behavior must be 2). I agree, the Giants can wait him out; maybe he or his handlers don't know that.



It's not about gaining leverage  
Milton : 8/1/2015 1:57 am : link
It's about not giving up what little leverage they have.

Besides the fact that JPP literally can't sign his tender with his right hand in a cast, if he were able to sign it, the Giants would immediately put him on NFI for failing his physical. They could then keep him on NFI without paying him a dime for the whole season. And JPP would have no leverage to prevent it.

If he waits until his own doctors say he is healthy enough to practice (i.e., no risk to re-injuring the hand) and then shows up to sign his tender, he could then contend that the Giants don't have the legal right to put him on NFI. Whether that's true or not, could wind up in court, but at least it gives JPP a leg to stand on.

In the meantime, I'm sure he is confident in his own doctors and his agent figures the less the Giants know about the extent of the damage now, the more difficult it will be to assess the ramifications of the damage when the hand is healed.

This is my best guess at why JPP and his agent are playing it this way.
...  
Tony-in-Wichita : 8/1/2015 3:20 am : link
NFI is the list he's avoiding. I'm curious what the details on that are..

It sounds like we may not see him in NY until possibly after week 1. I agree with Eric on this one, no way JPP contributes much this regular season. New coach and he needs to refine his technique.

I hope he somehow matures after reflecting on all this. His psyche still needs to heal as well
Good stuff from BBI  
Tony-in-Wichita : 8/1/2015 3:23 am : link
As always.

Eli and this offense needs to carry this team the first 10 games
RE: ...  
Milton : 8/1/2015 4:48 am : link
In comment 12397850 Tony-in-Wichita said:
Quote:
I agree with Eric on this one, no way JPP contributes much this regular season. New coach and he needs to refine his technique.
This may or may not be true, none of us are experts on hand injuries and none of us know the extent of the damage to his hand. There are reports that say it's possible the injuries are such that he could be back at near 100% within two or three months of the surgery.

If it's possible that he could be stopping the run and sacking QB's as early as Thanksgiving, it will be worth it for the Giants to negotiate some kind of incentive based one year deal that will be mutually beneficial to both sides.

The Giants just need to go 6-4 over the first ten games in order to be in excellent position for the stretch run to the playoffs. Even at 5-5, the back end of their schedule is weak enough that finishing 10-6 would still be very do-able if things started to click for them after the bye.

If JPP comes up big in a run to another Super Bowl trophy while playing on a one year incentive based deal that ultimately pays him roughly half the $14.8M franchise price, we will look back upon the 4th of July mishap in a much different light.
Milton. Your scenario presupposes the Giants  
LauderdaleMatty : 8/1/2015 8:09 am : link
Wouldn't pay him something while he is on NFI. Why wouldn't the Goanrs want him to play if he can? They have been fair in the past. JPPs agents have made sure he won't make a dime until he shows up and signs. Then he will also wind up on the NFI anyway most likely along w legal bills. Kid's IQ seems to border in double digits.

On the plus side as the Galette signing shows. You can be the biggest pile of shit and get a shot as a DE so he will play somewhere next year I guess
The idea of a negotiated reduction of the franchize tender sounds good  
ron mexico : 8/1/2015 8:19 am : link
but in reality I'm sure the two sides are probably far apart on what is a fair compromise.

RE: Milton. Your scenario presupposes the Giants  
Milton : 8/1/2015 9:37 am : link
In comment 12397883 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
Wouldn't pay him something while he is on NFI. Why wouldn't the Giants want him to play if he can?
Why would they want to pay him to be on NFI? They would only put him on NFI if they felt he would be unable to play for at least the first month of the season and then they would activate him off NFI after six weeks so he could begin practicing and they would begin paying him (subject to whatever negotiated settlement they come to).

The key is that JPP and the Giants may have a different opinion on when he is healthy enough to contribute in a meaningful way. And JPP and his agent don't want to allow the Giants to hold all the cards that way. That's not the best position from which to negotiate a one year incentive based deal. The healthier he is at the time of negotiations, the better will be JPP's chances of getting a favorable deal.
RE: I'll Play  
Gman11 : 8/1/2015 10:23 am : link
In comment 12397814 Trainmaster said:
Quote:
If JPP's agent is successful in pissing the Giants off to the extent that they withdraw the tender and release him, he now has a pool of 31 teams that might be willing to pay him in 2015.


Well, I can guarantee that there is no way in hell any other team is going to pay him $14.8 million to play this year. NOBODY. So, why wouldn't he sign the tender? The Giants already told him that they wouldn't put him on the NFI list if he attended training camp so that he can sit in on the meetings to learn the defense.

JPP is being really stupid. I don't care what his agent is telling him. He is being stupid. If I was the GM of the Giants, I'd tell him to go stick a firecracker up his ass and light it.
RE: RE: I'll Play  
Milton : 8/1/2015 10:40 am : link
In comment 12397970 Gman11 said:
Quote:
The Giants already told him that they wouldn't put him on the NFI list if he attended training camp so that he can sit in on the meetings to learn the defense.
The Giants have told him no such thing. They aren't going to agree to anything until after they've had a chance to look at his hand. And right now it's in a cast.
there was a report early on  
fkap : 8/1/2015 12:33 pm : link
that the Giants said they wouldn't put him on NFI so that he could learn the system even if he couldn't practice (I don't know the exact rule, but they made have said in fine print won't put him on NFI for camp, don't hold your breath on the real games). They've made it clear they would be generous with JPP.



JPP clearly thinks his best position is to hold out as long as possible to either minimize the number of games he doesn't get paid for or to maximize the dollars of a compromise contract.

Anyhow, before the accident, wasn't he threatening to hold out for training camp? we probably weren't going to see him the first half of camp anyway.

I'm not sure the academic/classroom is as big a deal as it's being made out to be. It helps, but for a guy not known to be cerebral, the biggest thing is be on the field practicing it,which is going to be a physical impossibility for quite a while.
all told, the Giants don't have as much leverage as is being alleged. Sure, as long as he's not signed they don't have to pay him, but when he is physically ready to play, they want him scheme ready to play. as JPP nears being able to play, they're going to start getting more anxious to get him in the facility and will start offering more concessions. that's going to mean paying him during the last few weeks of his rehab. Presumably, he's missing the first couple of games no matter what. They have the PR moral high ground, but that's about it. I'm guessing they can guarantee his entire salary and have him signed tomorrow, sight unseen, but that's not likely to happen. JPP wants to salvage as much money as possible, Giants want to minimize how much they'll pay him during rehab. it'll be a standoff until the picture becomes clearer as to when JPP will return. and then we'll see who has leverage.

By not letting the Giants exam him  
Vanzetti : 8/1/2015 12:52 pm : link
He keeps the team guessing about the extent of the injury. I'm sure the Giants care about JPP, but this is a business and Ronnie Barnes was sent there to discover how bad the injury was.

I'm sure JPPs agent has arranged for first class medical care. Barnes is a trainer. So, the idea that JPP is not getting the best care because he doesn't see the Giants doctor is pure BS. Giants want their doctors to examine him so they can make an informed decision about what to do.

JPP is denying them that info. He knows there are a couple of OL out there the Giants could sign with that money. As long as the team thinks JPP might play, they won't withdraw the tender-or at least that is what he is hoping.

RE: It's not about gaining leverage  
oldutican : 8/1/2015 3:33 pm : link
In comment 12397844 Milton said:
Quote:
It's about not giving up what little leverage they have.

Besides the fact that JPP literally can't sign his tender with his right hand in a cast, if he were able to sign it, the Giants would immediately put him on NFI for failing his physical. They could then keep him on NFI without paying him a dime for the whole season. And JPP would have no leverage to prevent it.

If he waits until his own doctors say he is healthy enough to practice (i.e., no risk to re-injuring the hand) and then shows up to sign his tender, he could then contend that the Giants don't have the legal right to put him on NFI. Whether that's true or not, could wind up in court, but at least it gives JPP a leg to stand on.

In the meantime, I'm sure he is confident in his own doctors and his agent figures the less the Giants know about the extent of the damage now, the more difficult it will be to assess the ramifications of the damage when the hand is healed.

This is my best guess at why JPP and his agent are playing it this way.


Thank you for explaining to the haters why JPP is playing it the way he is. It's a business and he is doing what he sees as in his interests, just as the Giants are. He doesn't owe anything to the Giants or his critics on BBI.
RE: RE: It's not about gaining leverage  
Gman11 : 8/1/2015 3:38 pm : link
In comment 12398233 oldutican said:
Quote:
He doesn't owe anything to the Giants or his critics on BBI.


He wants the Giants to pay him 14.8 million fucking dollars and he doesn't owe them anything? If it was me about to pay him that much money you're damn right I'd expect a little cooperation.
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