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Some observations from Sunday practice

YANKEE28 : 8/2/2015 4:43 pm
Some observations from todays practice

Giants fans have to be concerned about Newhouse and Mosely at RT. Neither looked good and Newhouse looked worse. Only good news (but it was against the 3rd team), was seeing Bobby Hart in at RT. He was very impressive.

LB Tony Johnson put huge pressure on a punt, and clearly would have blocked it in a real game

A lot of fun watching Mark Herzlich and Jerome Cunningham battle each other on numerous special teams drills. Clearly 2 guys who really want it.

Tom Quinn on a few occasions had to coach up both Geremy Davis and Corey Washington on the skills of blocking gunners on punt returns

Bennett Jackson started at left safety and was impressive. He is also the blocking back and calls the punt plays when Weatherford is in

Devin Unga caught my eye for his intensity on specials

Kerry Wynn looks really big and moved well. Ditto Jordan Stanton

Canadian Center Brett Jones was giving great effort, but seemed beaten on at least 2 plays by DT Dominque Hamilton

Jonathan Casillis broke thru from the right on a blitz. He would have crushed Nassib if allowed.

Ereck Flowers held his own today. He did a lot better handling Damontre Moore, actually swallowing him up on a few plays. Flowers matchup with starter George Selvie was worth watching. Lots of effort from both. Slight edge to Flowers.

Daniel Fells just always seems to find a way to get open. Impressive

Biggest raw from the crowd today was a nice over the middle completion-Manning to Cruz

Orleans Darkwa should a great burst on a fun right up the middle. Was 20 yards down field in an instance

Chykie Brown with outstanding coverage on a long pass down the left side

Preston Parker with a great burst on a punt return

Shane Vereen with 3 nice runs today
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RE: RE: Y28, thanks for posting  
jingle_jangle : 8/3/2015 10:00 am : link
In comment 12399749 nyynyg said:
Quote:
In comment 12399712 JonC said:


Quote:


For those wanting a RT upgrade ... we also need an upgrade at DE, SS, potentially both OLB positions, could use stronger weapons at TE, and depth at CB. Welcome to the modern NFL and its salary cap, rosters are rarely complete let alone deep.




It is academic at this point because as you say, the ship has sailed. There are not many improvements floating around.

However, it the academic conversation, I think a solidification of OL if I had to pick one and only one upgrade area, that is where I would do it. We are going to win/lose on the back of this offense. This year anyway. That much is clear.

The Giants can win with a stand out offense and a defense that can hold its own. Adding a DE or S on this defensive unit is not going to be a material difference. And that includes adding a solid JPP which is why I am 100% fine bagging that whole thing and saving the money.

Great logic. Dont let the o line derail the season with the weapons we have. Ah if only beatty didnt get hurt.
As for what can we learn from camp practices  
JonC : 8/3/2015 10:03 am : link
Perhaps not always definitive in terms of who will ultimately be successful or not, but coaches are looking for players who are prepared in terms of mentality, technique, conditioning, attitude, want-to, positioning, demonstrate knowledge of assignments when bullets are flying, the list goes on and on. In football, so much goes on in terms of preparation in every practice that you may only be aware of if you've played the game, or watched a number of practices. The ultimate team sport, countless moving parts ...
RE: Thanks Y28..  
Matt M. : 8/3/2015 10:29 am : link
In comment 12399200 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
Question: Is it really "worth noting" when Hart or anyone else does "well" against a 3rd team..What does it really show or tell? Nothing imo..

Could never understand through all the years the, "I know it was against 4th stringers, but he really looked good," mantra..It says nothing really..

Nothing personal about you, my friend, just a general observation about a yearly observation..:)
In and of itself, Hart looking good against 3rd stringers means nothing. But, perhaps it gets him more reps with the 2nd unit or even starters. What it may do is make the lose of the Newhouse/Mosely battled expendable and get him a spot on the roster instead of the practice squad.
RE: If the problem at RT is not resolved eventually...  
Matt M. : 8/3/2015 10:30 am : link
In comment 12399541 NYRiese said:
Quote:
Coahes and FO people should be fired...including the HC...it means that too much "hoping" was going on instead of sound planning.
There was sound planning. We drafted one of the top 2 OL with the expectation of him starting at RT. You can't plan for your starting LT tearing his pectoral muscle while working out before mini camp even begins.
I'm actually getting quite tired of the misconception that Reese  
Matt M. : 8/3/2015 10:33 am : link
didn't plan or address the OL. In the last few years, we spend 2 1st round picks and 1 2nd round pick on the OL and all 3 players will be starting at their respective positions this year. In addition, he has signed some veteran OL who were deemed as decent options. Not all the FA signings worked out, but the OL has NOT been ignored as too many people spew here.
Well said, Matt.  
BrettNYG10 : 8/3/2015 10:34 am : link
We all got very excited over Cruz when he had his 3 TD performance against backups and third stringers. Sustainable outperformance will likely push the player up the depth chart, or help secure a roster spot if they're on the bubble.
Agreed on the OL as well.  
BrettNYG10 : 8/3/2015 10:36 am : link
He's invested plenty over the years. I believe the Giants were 2nd in cap space allocated to the OL in 2011 when the OL was a dumpster fire until the playoffs. Reese has gotten unlucky in some cases, but also missed up until this point.
I agree  
nyynyg : 8/3/2015 10:41 am : link
I don't think the OL has been ignored, it is simply the place if we could I would pour more investment to deal with the current state. Nothing more. I don't ping Reese at all on this, he's made the investments, he's spent money to bring a guy like Schwartz in.
In the current salaary cap system, it is simply unrealistic  
Matt M. : 8/3/2015 10:58 am : link
for a position like the OL to have adequate depth and still have adequate talent elsewhere. Now, the argument could be made that they don't have adequate talent elsewhere. But, again, in the cap, there is only so much to do.

Like him or not, Eli is a franchise QB. He may be paid more than some people like, but that is the only way to keep a franchise QB. When you combine him with a the WR trio of OBJ, Cruz, and Randle, as well as the 3-headed RB monster, they have the talent on offense to put up points. With their current system, the OL really only needs to improve to decent, which is very doable. They likely have upgraded themselves at LG and OC, and if Schwartz can stay healthy at RG. They need decent play from both OT positions.

Defense is a big question to me. I love Collins at S. Even as a rookie, I think he is an immediate upgrade given how poorly Rolle played last year. the problem is a lack of depth overall at that position. I honestly think Collins could be the best player on the entire D by season's end. I am not in love with Spags' defense the way many are here. But, I see any change as an upgrade over Fewell. They have some talent, but will require several guys to play up, so to speak, along the DL and LB. They also NEED to stay healthy in the secondary.
RE: Thanks Y28..  
Jersey55 : 8/3/2015 11:05 am : link
In comment 12399200 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
Question: Is it really "worth noting" when Hart or anyone else does "well" against a 3rd team..What does it really show or tell? Nothing imo..

Could never understand through all the years the, "I know it was against 4th stringers, but he really looked good," mantra..It says nothing really..

Nothing personal about you, my friend, just a general observation about a yearly observation..:)


I think it would say a lot more if it said he was beaten badly by 4th stringers, everything I've read says that Hart has looked good....
RE: RE: How QUALITY does someone have to be to beat out the likes  
Jimmy Googs : 8/3/2015 11:54 am : link
In comment 12399692 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 12399660 Curtis in VA said:


Quote:


of Newhouse or Mosley?? Come on.

We need an upgrade here.



Give me a name, Curtis.

As I said to Joey in another thread, there's a dearth of OL talent in the league, which is why guys like Charles Brown, James Brewer, and J.D. Walton all have new teams, not to mention our own Marshall Newhouse.


Reese indirectly made an upgrade by making sure James Brewer wasn't on the roster any longer.

But I agree Klaatu. Pickings are slim and all come with hair on them. But the idea is to find the one with least amount or most developmental potential. That simply may be Newhouse and Mosley in the eyes of the men in blue caps.
Thanks YANKEE28  
nicky43 : 8/3/2015 1:13 pm : link
I'm sure Reese and company are watching the wire for another Tackle. It's obvious we're going to need an upgrade there. I'm not a fan of Beatty but this situation really hopes he heals fast!
RE: Herzlich...  
fbdad : 8/3/2015 1:59 pm : link
In comment 12399744 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
Hate to write it but I'm a little tired of him. I get it, he's got heart and a never quit always work hard ethic. But is the talent there? It seems like we would have seen a few good plays from him by now. Is there really no one more talented than Herzlich who we could give a try? Or is the hope that he's going to mature into something more than what we've seen so far?


Didn't PFF give Herzlich the team's second highest grade against the run last year when he started the last 6 or 7 games?
If you could only sub in Herzlich  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/3/2015 2:08 pm : link
specifically to fill a gap in run support, he'd be fine.

The minute you need him to track and pursue sideline to sideline it falls apart.
RE: RE: Herzlich...  
trueblueinpw : 8/3/2015 9:35 pm : link
In comment 12400210 fbdad said:
Quote:
In comment 12399744 trueblueinpw said:


Quote:
Didn't PFF give Herzlich the team's second highest grade against the run last year when he started the last 6 or 7 games?


Maybe. But, that's not exactly a ringing endorsement considering our run defense was so terrible. Still, I get your point. It just seems like we keep some of these marginal players around too long. Whether or not we're missing out on something better is probably very difficult to say. I like the young man, his story is terrific. I hope he gets better in coverage.
Herzlich is a liability on defense, and  
Jimmy Googs : 8/3/2015 10:50 pm : link
any offense that is organized enough will take advantage of his presence on the field.

And if you care to debate, go re-watch the first Redskin game or the SF game last season when he was exposed by players he had in man-to-man or zone coverage. Watching his RBs come out of the backfield in passing downs is particularly eye-opening as to his recognition skills.

Making tackles 4-5 yards past the LOS tells me you care but are not talented enough to help the cause.
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