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The WR Competition - Four guys for two spots

Emil : 8/3/2015 8:52 am
Most of the conversations this time of year focus on holes in the roster, but the Giants must have one the deepest WR groups in the NFL. The first four slots are absolute locks.

1. OBJ
2. Cruz
3. Randle
4. Harris

You have to assume the Giants will carry 6 WRs. I can't recall the last time a team carried 7, but I can see the case for 7 if the team is still concerned Cruz might have a setback. Thus far it doesn't seem like the organization is too concerned though.

The remaining two slots seem to be a competition between four players.

Corey Washington - BBI has seen the potential, and you have to love the size, but he'll have to prove in the preseason games that he can run the entire route tree and contribute on specials.

Geremy Davis - So is this guy surprising anyone yet? It's early, but he is showing an ability to work the middle of the field, good hands, and he has good size. I actually liked the pick when it was made, but there were concerns about his speed. Speed is only one aspect of WR play however, and if he runs good routes, has good hands, and knows how to get open, he might just surprise. I think so far (it's early) he has helped himself more than any other WR fighting for an active spot. The preseason games will show his true ability. Call me crazy, but I predict that if Randle goes elsewhere next year, Davis can be groomed to fill his role.

Preston Parker - A jack of all trades guy who doesn't seem to excel in any one area, but is a valuable reserve. Reminds me of a utility infielder in baseball. I think Parker has the biggest uphill climb out of anyone in this group of four. He is not explosive and despite being 6'0" he doesn't seem to play with any size advantage. To me, Parker is what he is. A serviceable veteran who would could help a team that does not have the same WR depth the Giants do.

James Jones - This is a tough one. Jones has proven throughout his career that he can contribute and make plays. The Giants would be looking for him to be no more than a 4th/5th WR depending on the formation and game plan. I think he is really just insurance in case Cruz has a setback or OBJ tweaks a hammy. No doubt that Jones is working hard to make a roster spot, but he is also auditioning for a job on any NFL roster should he not make the final cut.

Barring setbacks/injury, and given the experience in the first 4 WR spots, I think the Giants will opt to go with youth an upside in slots 5 and 6. Davis and Washington should round out the WR corps.


I see things a little differently  
giants#1 : 8/3/2015 9:03 am : link
Harris is a lock to make the team, but may not necessarily be the 4th WR on the field. I think he has the talent to contribute, especially in certain packages, but I can see a couple of the "bubble guys" you list getting more WR snaps. Harris will get plenty of special teams snaps though.

As far as the last 2 spots go, keeping in mind Harris' ST ability, I think it breaks down like this:

#5 WR (active on game day) - strong special teams player, WR ability less important. This was Parker last season and I think (hope) he'll be pushed by Davis this year.

#6 WR (likely inactive) - better WR, than ST player; often developmental. I think Washington has the edge here and showing significant improvement on ST will surely help, but I think he can lock this spot up due to his WR skills.

James Jones - he's a long shot unless there are injuries or a guy like Washington shows no improvement.
I really don't think Jones is a long shot  
jlukes : 8/3/2015 9:07 am : link
In fact, I think it's between Jones and Parker for the 5th WR spot who will be active on game day.
Jones is making the team. He's a pro who knows the offense.  
Victor in CT : 8/3/2015 9:08 am : link
And thus far in camp he is showing that he has it still.
I like Jones a lot  
Emil : 8/3/2015 9:14 am : link
And keeping him makes a lot of sense. My only hesitation is what does it mean for Parker and Davis, two guys with potential. Now if you think you can get Davis onto the practice squad, then ok, but you'd have to think the Giants would be concerned someone would snag their 2015 6th round pick.

Honestly, the base case scenario for the Giants concerning Davis might be the Cruz rookie year one. Hamstring tweak (or something minor) and spend on a year on IR.

The in-game competition between these guys is going to be huge.
These things have a way of sorting themselves out  
ZogZerg : 8/3/2015 9:22 am : link
where it won't be that difficult.
Emil - I know the Giants would never admit it  
jlukes : 8/3/2015 9:22 am : link
but with Eli and TC, they are in win-now mode. Unless Davis or Washington can show that they really know the offense and can be plug-and-play in the starting lineup, Jones will get the spot.

Jones could step in to any of the three WR spots and hit the ground running.
Hard to see them cutting Washington  
BillT : 8/3/2015 9:25 am : link
I read he was in the 1st WR group on the field yesterday. So it's Parker, Jones and Davis for the 6th spot. As well as Davis has done he's the one PS eligible. Seems to comes down to Parker/Jones for the "last" spot though I guess Davis could beat them both out.
Parker turned 28 in February.  
Big Blue Blogger : 8/3/2015 9:32 am : link
He's not a guy you keep for potential. He also won't stick for his return skills, because Harris has that job locked up. The deciding factor in whether he stays - aside from his own performance in camp and pre-season - might be whether depth is needed more on the outside or in the slot. Assuming Cruz is full-go and Harris shows he's at least a capable backup, Parker might be a luxury that doesn't justify a roster spot.

If Parker clears waivers (and yes, he IS subject to waivers), the Giants will certainly keep him on speed-dial. In fact, if I understand the eligibility rules correctly, he seems to qualify for one of the two vet slots on the practice squad. That might be the perfect spot for him - versatile backup who can step in when injuries hit, great scout-team guy, but not quite good enough to make the final 53 if everyone stays healthy.
usually an injury will occur at some point  
SirYesSir : 8/3/2015 9:38 am : link
to help clear things up, but if all stay healthy I would assume Jones and Davis stay, and Parker and Washington go.

The staff seems to be in love with Davis, and see him as a weapon they'd like to see on the field sooner than later. If he lives up to just some of that, he'll stick.

Jones is a competent vet with a great understanding of this system (and by the way before going to a different attack in Oakland was extremely good at it in GB) and adds some experience to a young group

In other years, like last one, Parker and/or Washington could stick around, but this group will be too tough for them to crack
I'm trying not to get too excited about Davis' prospects.  
Klaatu : 8/3/2015 9:45 am : link
Call it the Ramses Barden Effect.
unless Davis struggles on specials  
giants#1 : 8/3/2015 9:55 am : link
I don't see Parker sticking. Davis was touted as a potential special teams "ace" and has stood out early on as a WR too. Whereas, Parker is what he is at this point. Solid 4th/5th WR, but not much more.

Don't see Jones really competing against those two as (unless I'm mistaken) he's not really known for his special teams play. If he were to knock Davis/Parker off the roster, that would really only leave them with 1 WR (Harris) capable of playing specials (aside from PR which Beckham can obviously do).

That's why I see it as Jones vs Washington for 1 spot and Davis vs Parker for the other.
..  
nygiants16 : 8/3/2015 10:00 am : link
I think Parker is out, he could be insurance for Cruz but with Jones here now, if Cruz does have a setback(knock on wood) OBJ can work out of the slot in 3 wr sets and they can bring Jones onto the field...

Jones i think is a lock and i think he will be the consistent 4th wr with Harris having his own set of plays...

I think so far Geremy Davis is looking like the last Wr on the roster...with him and Washington it is going to come down to who can play special teams, the battle is not going to be necessarily won because of what they do at WR, it is going to be won on special teams..
Unless he has an eye-catching camp  
Bob in Newburgh : 8/3/2015 10:05 am : link
We can easily get Davis onto the PS. Not only was he only a 6th round choice, but he was considered a developmental type prior to the draft.

He has neither extraordinary height or speed to cause other organizations to get the hots for him.

Plan A should be the PS with only a training camp that is either a disaster or a true revelation changing this.
RE: Unless he has an eye-catching camp  
nygiants16 : 8/3/2015 10:08 am : link
In comment 12399767 Bob in Newburgh said:
Quote:
We can easily get Davis onto the PS. Not only was he only a 6th round choice, but he was considered a developmental type prior to the draft.

He has neither extraordinary height or speed to cause other organizations to get the hots for him.

Plan A should be the PS with only a training camp that is either a disaster or a true revelation changing this.


If washington cant play specials you can not keep him, unless he shows somethign extroadinary during preseason....

Right now the Giants only have 1 of their WRs who can play special teams, you need that 6th WR to be able to play specials...
I think Parker will likely be the odd man out. Jones should be a lock  
Eli's Got This Stuff : 8/3/2015 10:17 am : link
I would think Jones will be the 4th WR unless Harris surprises.

Last spot is between Washington vs Davis. If Davis is ready he can be stashed on the PS
Have the numbers on the James Jones contract leaked yet?  
Enoch : 8/3/2015 10:23 am : link
That might tell us more about how the team views his chance of making the roster.

(My general observation is that team-friendly contracts take the longest to leak. Agents like to brag if they've gotten a good deal.)
Parker is a journeyman. You would not keep him based on potential  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/3/2015 10:32 am : link
.
tough to keep Jones at his age  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 8/3/2015 11:01 am : link
If the young guns (Washington and Geremy Davis) have significant potential. I think Parker is the one that is in real trouble. Decent player but really limited upside.
I'd be surprised if it wasn't Jones and Davis  
illmatic : 8/3/2015 11:09 am : link
I don't think they signed Jones for the hell of it as another body in camp. He's making the team. And Davis looks like he can play and the Giants don't typically give up on draft picks right away.
I see it more as 3 guys for 1 spot  
Matt M. : 8/3/2015 11:10 am : link
I don't think the Giants signed Jones with the expectation that he will be fighting for a spot. At this point, I think Davis has to be the front runner. I like the way you describe Parker. He seems to be plugged in a lot of places, but doesn't excel at any. I think with some of their signings and draft picks, his ST play is no longer enough to keep him around. He should not be the primary return man for either return team, so his WR play would have to warrant a roster spot.
Hoping it's Jones and Washington.  
732NYG : 8/3/2015 11:13 am : link
.
Washington reminds me of Barden.  
SanFranNowNCGiantsFan : 8/3/2015 11:17 am : link
Similar builds & hype, but not much success.

I think Jones is a lock.
Washington and Davis  
bc4life : 8/3/2015 11:27 am : link
fighting for the last spot.

Cannot see Jones not making the team.
I just hope they put these guys  
Doomster : 8/3/2015 11:50 am : link
in position to make plays against the other teams #1 players.....we know what Washington can do against scrubs....what can he do against #1's?

Is Jones really a slot receiver?

I think Davis goes to the practice squad.....but tell me, if he doesn't have real speed for a WR, how will he play any faster on ST's?
Corey Washington  
Jerry K : 8/3/2015 12:30 pm : link
A tall receiver with tantalizing potential, shows well in the preseason... sounds like the Ramses Barden effect applies more to Corey Washington. If the Giants have been inoculated against it, then he could be a surprise cut with the team keeping Davis and Jones to round our the corps.
Hahaha, what in the actual fuck?  
Mike in Long Beach : 8/3/2015 12:40 pm : link
Jones had 73 catches last year and has worked with McAdoo in Green Bay?

He is going to be on this team if he stays healthy.
Let's see what preseason brings  
Jay in Toronto : 8/3/2015 12:50 pm : link
The Giants value ST play which gives Davis an advantage.
IMO  
est1986 : 8/3/2015 1:03 pm : link
This is a 5 man WR competition. We All know three guys are guarenteed to make the team OBJ, Cruz, Randle. The next 3 wide receivers has got to go to 5 other guys. And they are James Jones, Dwayne Harris, Corey Washington, Preston Parker, & Geremy Davis. I don't believe we take 7 WRs by any stretch. I hope Geremy goes to PS and I hope Parker gets a shot to play elsewhere in the AFC.
RE: IMO  
BeerFridge : 8/3/2015 1:16 pm : link
In comment 12400133 est1986 said:
Quote:
This is a 5 man WR competition. We All know three guys are guarenteed to make the team OBJ, Cruz, Randle. The next 3 wide receivers has got to go to 5 other guys. And they are James Jones, Dwayne Harris, Corey Washington, Preston Parker, & Geremy Davis. I don't believe we take 7 WRs by any stretch. I hope Geremy goes to PS and I hope Parker gets a shot to play elsewhere in the AFC.


Dwayne Harris is making the team, fer chrissakes.
Beer Fridge: If there's a question about Harris...  
Big Blue Blogger : 8/3/2015 1:22 pm : link
...it's whether he makes the team as a WR or as a special teams player who can fill in at WR in a pinch. His contract certainly suggests the former; but if it's the latter, I can imagine the Giants carrying six WRs plus Harris. Unlikely, but possible.
You may be right about  
nicky43 : 8/3/2015 1:35 pm : link
Davis and Washington making the cut but last year they gave Preston more in game snaps than Washington so I wonder if they still like Preston above Washington. I like the Washington but I don't know if he has an attitude problem or why they didn't use him more last year.
Washington was one of the most highly praised guys by TC  
BlueLou : 8/3/2015 2:09 pm : link
for his work in the voluntary and mandatory summer stuff. Wasn't he singled out for the strides he's made since last year? I don't think he's getting dumped so easily for either Davis or Jones, for that matter.

Unless TC was blowing smoke, which isn't exactly his MO.

Unlike others here, I don't think Jones is a lock at all.
Doubt Washington makes it  
bronxct1 : 8/3/2015 2:10 pm : link
I don't see how he's going to make the team unless he's improved greatly on special teams. The last two spots would be Jones and Parker.

At this point I think Washington is taking 1st team snaps as a last chance for him to set himself apart. If he doesn't blow anyone out of the water I think he's done.
re. Jones, Davis, and Parker...and Victor  
ColHowPepper : 8/3/2015 2:13 pm : link
for all the reasons mentioned I don't see how Jones does not make it, chief among which is his playing in BM's system + it is win now for this coaching staff, if we take Mara at his word, and we should

re. Davis, and Emil's summary:
Quote:
Geremy Davis - So is this guy surprising anyone yet? It's early, but he is showing an ability to work the middle of the field, good hands, and he has good size. I actually liked the pick when it was made, but there were concerns about his speed. Speed is only one aspect of WR play however, and if he runs good routes, has good hands, and knows how to get open, he might just surprise. I think so far (it's early) he has helped himself more than any other WR fighting for an active spot. The preseason games will show his true ability. Call me crazy, but I predict that if Randle goes elsewhere next year, Davis can be groomed to fill his role.

I thought the big knock on him in college was that he struggled to gain separation--it was a knock on his speed and his physicality to break free of the DBs coverage. Maybe the route running was at issue too, but I didn't hear that mentioned.

I'd hate to see Parker get cut although I see the rationale. I love his heart and toughness, he's a gamer, got his teammates' backs. Does he have that much upside? No.

VC: it's awfully early yet, coming off the injury he had, to presume he's not going to have setbacks as he is brought along. I just don't want them to rush him back--foolish.
Dwayne Harris  
nyynyg : 8/3/2015 2:14 pm : link
is making the team. wow. the question is whether they count him as a WR also or he is making it as ST with WR benefits

I personally think Jones is making the team too. He knows the offense and put up stats last year and they know he can be a starter should anyone go down, particularly Cruz.

I think there is really one open slot for the rest of the guys.
RE: Doubt Washington makes it  
BlueLou : 8/3/2015 2:15 pm : link
In comment 12400232 bronxct1 said:
Quote:
I don't see how he's going to make the team unless he's improved greatly on special teams. The last two spots would be Jones and Parker.

At this point I think Washington is taking 1st team snaps as a last chance for him to set himself apart. If he doesn't blow anyone out of the water I think he's done.


You might go back and read what Reuben Randle and TC had to say about Corey earlier this summer. Parker certainly isn't a lock over CW. But yeah, CW getting 1st string reps likely means he's gone... great logic right there.
The details of Jones's contract will shed some light.  
Big Blue Blogger : 8/3/2015 2:19 pm : link
I think that Reese and Coughlin were both honest about James Jones: he will compete for a job. His prior production in a very similar offense (with McAdoo watching) gives him an edge; but he isn't guaranteed a roster spot and he probably isn't guaranteed much cash either. I'll go out on a limb and guess that he signed a qualifying deal for $870K base plus the maximum allowable bonus, $80K. If so, he can be released with almost no cap impact, and is basically in the same situation as Jeromy Miles.
RE: The details of Jones's contract will shed some light.  
Tuckrule : 8/3/2015 3:11 pm : link
In comment 12400251 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
I think that Reese and Coughlin were both honest about James Jones: he will compete for a job. His prior production in a very similar offense (with McAdoo watching) gives him an edge; but he isn't guaranteed a roster spot and he probably isn't guaranteed much cash either. I'll go out on a limb and guess that he signed a qualifying deal for $870K base plus the maximum allowable bonus, $80K. If so, he can be released with almost no cap impact, and is basically in the same situation as Jeromy Miles.



Great post and the I heard the same thing mentioned on NFL network re miles. Same show me contract. I'm in the minority and hope Parker can stay. Love his toughness and won't forget when the Rams went after obj who was the first guy to step in, Mr Parker.
Special Teams Play determines the #5 and #6 wideouts  
SGMen : 8/3/2015 10:45 pm : link
Lets say you cut Jones and Parker with the final cuts and keep Davis and Washington (#5 and #6) on the active roster. If there is an early injury one or both veterans will be available.

While DAVIS may find his way to the practice squad there is no guarantee. Much depends upon his pre-season game production.

We have a good situation here with talent a plenty.

But we have one true game-breaker in OBJ and we need him at 100% for the whole season if we want to go anywhere. If Cruz can work that underneath slot well we will be fine.
Contract details on Jones finally leaked via Raanan and Defenderdawg:  
Big Blue Blogger : 8/6/2015 7:27 am : link
Quote:
Newly-acquired wide receiver James Jones signed with the Giants for the veteran minimum, according to a person with knowledge of the contract.

Jones, 31, signed a one-year deal worth up to $950,000. He received the veteran minimum $870,000 base salary with a $30,000 signing bonus, which was his total guarantee upon joining the team.

The veteran could also earn an additional $50,000 roster bonus if he's on the 53-man roster for the Week 1 opener against the Dallas Cowboys.

The $870K is the minimum salary... for a player of Jones' experience. By rule, he would only count $665K against the salary cap if he makes the team.

The $30K signing bonus is cheap insurance. Jones has a good chance to make the team, but his contract suggests that he will have to earn it in the next month. That's even more true of Preston Parker, who has no guaranteed money at all. So, based on contracts, it would be painless for the Giants to cut both vets and fill the fifth and sixth spots with two youngsters. Davis and Washington are the most likely candidates; but a less prominent contender like Talley might have a shot, especially as injuries hit.

BTW, the math on Jones's $665K cap number is as follows: the $30K signing bonus is a sunk cost, and hits the cap whether he makes it or not. The remaining $635K comprises the $50K roster bonus and the $585K minimum salary for a third-year player, which applies because of the Minimum Salary Benefit. Nj.com misstates this aspect slightly, stating that "The $870K is the minimum salary benefit for a player of Jones' experience." (Italics added.) Strictly, the benefit is $285K - the difference between Jones's actual salary and $585K.
Thanks Defenderdawg! - ( New Window )
My issue with Parker  
Essex : 8/6/2015 8:13 am : link
Is consistency with drops. The colts game he was awful, the game against Seattle he was terrific. I think Jones will make team, but doesn't he have drop issues as well?
Drops?  
Big Blue Blogger : 8/6/2015 9:24 am : link
What drops? (A particularly infamous one is linked below.)

I think several of Jones's drops in Green Bay were on tough balls coming in over his shoulder, because he was often the outside WR running a "go" route. Last year in Oakland, he was used more as a possession receiver. As such, he had more opportunities to catch the ball facing the QB, and Voilà - his drops plummeted.

There might also have been an element of observer bias in those notorious drop stats. Rodgers has such an impeccable reputation for accuracy that PFF's judges may have been more inclined to score a marginally catchable ball as a drop.
A big one that got away. - ( New Window )
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