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Werder: JPP won't report until he can pass physical

CromartiesKid21 : 8/3/2015 2:14 pm
Holding Giants hostage til he can start earning his percentage of the 14.8M franchise tag when he passes the physical to be eligible to sign the tender...
Quote:
ESPN's Ed Werder reports unsigned Giants franchise player Jason Pierre-Paul (fingers) won't report to training camp until he can pass his physical.
Pierre-Paul finally talked to GM Jerry Reese on Sunday, but he's avoiding all Giants activities — including signing his one-year tender — until he can be medically cleared. It's a bizarre strategy, but one the G-Men may be more at peace with following Sunday's meeting. It's completely unknown when JPP might finally be ready.

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Not surprising  
nygiants16 : 8/3/2015 2:17 pm : link
how is he holding them hostage? Giants are not paying him a dime right now and then once he signs he starts getting paid...

So if he signs week 2 the franchise tag is prorated and he wont get full 14 million...

Why would he report if he can not pass a physical and then get put on NFI and not make any money?
RE: Not surprising  
CromartiesKid21 : 8/3/2015 2:19 pm : link
In comment 12400245 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
how is he holding them hostage? Giants are not paying him a dime right now and then once he signs he starts getting paid...

So if he signs week 2 the franchise tag is prorated and he wont get full 14 million...

Why would he report if he can not pass a physical and then get put on NFI and not make any money?


Giants without knowing the progress of the surgery since he will be avoiding the physical cant make decisions blindly to proceed on how to allocate the 14.8M franchise tender hold sitting on their payroll.
if the Giants are not planning on spending  
nyynyg : 8/3/2015 2:19 pm : link
the $14m right now, like immediately on someone. And there doesn't seem to really be anyone out there for that kind of money, they are playing this right way.

Keeping 14m idle against the cap, able to roll forward to next year. And JPP isn't getting paid anything either and they maintain rights to him.

(personal opinion, this isn't going to end well but that doesn't mean the Giants are playing this the right way based on the above)
Am I missing something?  
Danny Kanell : 8/3/2015 2:20 pm : link
What advantage does this give JPP? Absolutely nothing, from what I can see.

And if he never signs it, because of that, don't the Giants hold his rights at the same franchise tender for 2016?
RE: if the Giants are not planning on spending  
CromartiesKid21 : 8/3/2015 2:20 pm : link
In comment 12400250 nyynyg said:
Quote:
the $14m right now, like immediately on someone. And there doesn't seem to really be anyone out there for that kind of money, they are playing this right way.

Keeping 14m idle against the cap, able to roll forward to next year. And JPP isn't getting paid anything either and they maintain rights to him.

(personal opinion, this isn't going to end well but that doesn't mean the Giants are playing this the right way based on the above)

In regard to the rollover...is there a particular deadline date for that to hold true to carryforward for next year?
RE: Am I missing something?  
Deej : 8/3/2015 2:24 pm : link
In comment 12400252 Danny Kanell said:
Quote:
What advantage does this give JPP? Absolutely nothing, from what I can see.

And if he never signs it, because of that, don't the Giants hold his rights at the same franchise tender for 2016?


I think he avoids getting put on a list that would disqualify him for 6 or 10 weeks w/o pay. So if he's ready week 3, sign then and then he makes 3 more paychecks.
RE: RE: Am I missing something?  
BlueLou : 8/3/2015 2:26 pm : link
In comment 12400259 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 12400252 Danny Kanell said:


Quote:


What advantage does this give JPP? Absolutely nothing, from what I can see.

And if he never signs it, because of that, don't the Giants hold his rights at the same franchise tender for 2016?



I think he avoids getting put on a list that would disqualify him for 6 or 10 weeks w/o pay. So if he's ready week 3, sign then and then he makes 3 more paychecks.


Bingo!
This is gonna wind up going to arbitration.  
MOOPS : 8/3/2015 2:28 pm : link
JPP is not going to have a football-functional thumb for quite some time, but he'll get some doctor to sign off that he's good to go with his hand wrapped like a club.
The Giants in turn will go all Soup Nazi on JPP's ass and tell him to take a hike.
IMO

It's all about the money.
This sounds like typical BSPN insider story  
jjgmrg901 : 8/3/2015 2:30 pm : link
I don't think anyone thought JPP was going to come close to Giants camp until he was ready to take the physical.

I seem to remember some of this being mentioned back in July.

My prediction:  
sb from NYT Forum : 8/3/2015 2:33 pm : link
At some point JPP will go to an "independent" doctor and get fully cleared, and then make that opinion public. He will then report to the Giants for his official physical.

The hope being that the other doctor's opinion will influence the Giants' doctors. If the Giants NFI him then I would expect JPP to bring some sort of legal action.
RE: RE: Am I missing something?  
Danny Kanell : 8/3/2015 2:33 pm : link
In comment 12400259 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 12400252 Danny Kanell said:


Quote:


What advantage does this give JPP? Absolutely nothing, from what I can see.

And if he never signs it, because of that, don't the Giants hold his rights at the same franchise tender for 2016?



I think he avoids getting put on a list that would disqualify him for 6 or 10 weeks w/o pay. So if he's ready week 3, sign then and then he makes 3 more paychecks.


But does NFI have a minimum game requirement? I thought it was week to week. So if they put him on NFI and he can physically play week 3, they can take him off the list.
I don't  
NJGiantFan84 : 8/3/2015 2:40 pm : link
begrudge him for making his business decisions. But I think not letting the Giants look at his injury is a poor decision. They can look before he signs. If they like what thy see, they may tell him that if he signs and comes to camp for the meetings they will guarantee that they won't put him on NFI, or guarantee they'll pay him the full amount regardless of the games he plays etc.

I think some of his refusal to meet is the feeling that the Giants screwed him by tagging him rather than allowing him to sign a long-term deal and that this process would have played out similarly if he had not had the injury. He quite possibly would have sat out as long as he could anyway.


At worst, Giants look at it and he still doesn't sign. I just think it's a poor business decision not to work with the Giants as much as possible. Unless, as many suspect, it is really bad and he's afraid they'll pull the tender.

But I don't villify him for his decisions. He's doing what he feels is in his best interest just like the Giants do what is in their best interest from a business standpoint.
I can live with this ...  
Hem Roid : 8/3/2015 2:41 pm : link
as it protects and costs the org. ZERO ... no way he passes they physical, unless he is talking about taking it in August 2016 ... maybe
now lets put this thing away ...  
Hem Roid : 8/3/2015 2:49 pm : link
in the back of the closet till its time to address and get on the Da-Monster Train !!!
Expected  
JonC : 8/3/2015 2:50 pm : link
JPP has earned approx. $20M during his NFL career. With a guaranteed $14.8M attached to the tender, he's focused on every dime, especially if his future earnings potential is on thin ice.
How late can the Giants pull the tender?  
ZogZerg : 8/3/2015 3:18 pm : link
Can they have their Drs. look at him once JPP says "he's ready" and then pull the tender if they don't think he is anywhere near ready?
Going to be tough to root for this guy, again.  
Britt in VA : 8/3/2015 3:19 pm : link
.
RE: How late can the Giants pull the tender?  
NJGiantFan84 : 8/3/2015 3:22 pm : link
In comment 12400357 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
Can they have their Drs. look at him once JPP says "he's ready" and then pull the tender if they don't think he is anywhere near ready?


My understanding is that the offer is out there and he can sign whenever. So they could not pull the tender in that scenario.

However, once he signs they can put him on the NFI list and he doesn't get paid if they do not agree that he is ready.
RE: How late can the Giants pull the tender?  
ron mexico : 8/3/2015 3:24 pm : link
In comment 12400357 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
Can they have their Drs. look at him once JPP says "he's ready" and then pull the tender if they don't think he is anywhere near ready?


yes they can

They can pull the tender anytime.  
BlueLou : 8/3/2015 3:24 pm : link
And even after he signs it, they can NFI him at that point, at their own team physician's discretion. He is at their mercy up to then, when he can challenge it via binding arbitration, which also strongly trends in the teams' favor.

For the thousandth time...
RE: Going to be tough to root for this guy, again.  
NJGiantFan84 : 8/3/2015 3:25 pm : link
In comment 12400358 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
.


I know this is a different situation, but I remember when people had similar sentiments with Osi and Strahan during contract disputes. I suspect that if he gets out on the field and playing decently, we will all put this behind us as we do with most contract disputes.

If he never plays well again, Giants fans won't care what he did in 2011.
This has all been evaluated by the lawyers on both sides,  
TMS : 8/3/2015 3:27 pm : link
don't get a headache over it. JPP does not have a clue.
Why report if the Team is not going to let you practice or play?  
WillieYoung : 8/3/2015 3:33 pm : link
He'll report and sign when he and team agree he's cleared to play. This is much ado about nothing.
if he show us out of shape  
ron mexico : 8/3/2015 3:33 pm : link
they can pull the franchise tag, even if the hand is fine

RE: How late can the Giants pull the tender?  
NJGiantFan84 : 8/3/2015 3:46 pm : link
In comment 12400357 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
Can they have their Drs. look at him once JPP says "he's ready" and then pull the tender if they don't think he is anywhere near ready?


Sorry, my last response i interpreted "he's ready" as him signing the tender. Until he signs it, they can pull it any time as others have stated.

Once he signs it, they can NFI him if they don't think he is ready.
RE: if he show us out of shape  
NJGiantFan84 : 8/3/2015 3:47 pm : link
In comment 12400384 ron mexico said:
Quote:
they can pull the franchise tag, even if the hand is fine


Even if he signs it they can pull it?

I may have bad info. then. Sorry, I will step aside on this one.
Any one have a sense.....  
Reb8thVA : 8/3/2015 4:08 pm : link
of what he will need to be able to do to pass the physical.
Don't know, but here is the governing language  
ron mexico : 8/3/2015 4:22 pm : link
They probably also have grounds to yank the tender on the disclosure requirement - Bottom line the Giants are protected if they don't like what they see when he finally signs. This is most likely the start of the negotiation for a compromise 1 year deal.

8. PHYSICAL CONDITION. Player represents to Club that he is and will maintain himself in excellent physical condition. Player will undergo a complete physical examination by the Club physician upon Club request, during which physical examination Player agrees to make full and complete disclosure of any physical or mental condition known to him which might impair his performance under this contract and to respond fully and in good faith when questioned by the Club physician about such condition. If Player fails to establish or maintain his excellent physical condition to the satisfaction of the Club physician, or make the required full and complete disclosure and good faith responses to the Club physician, then Club may terminate this contract.
RE: RE: Going to be tough to root for this guy, again.  
FStubbs : 8/3/2015 5:23 pm : link
In comment 12400372 NJGiantFan84 said:
Quote:
In comment 12400358 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


.



I know this is a different situation, but I remember when people had similar sentiments with Osi and Strahan during contract disputes. I suspect that if he gets out on the field and playing decently, we will all put this behind us as we do with most contract disputes.

If he never plays well again, Giants fans won't care what he did in 2011.


I'm not sure this situation is even comparable. You knew that whenever Osi and Strahan got their contracts done they would come in and perform as expected. We don't know what we're getting out of JPP.
Passing one man's physical  
sphinx : 8/3/2015 6:03 pm : link
is not passing another man's physical. See Carlos Gomez

JPP is too much of a distraction  
TMS : 8/3/2015 6:20 pm : link
and we should just walk away. He will not be worth the trouble for the next two or more years or ever. Bad luck, give it up. IMO. We have to win now or face a complete overhaul starting with the incompetent front office.
If they don't think he's ready they can put him on the NFI list  
WillieYoung : 8/3/2015 6:48 pm : link
so he won't sign the tender until the team agrees he is ready to play.
RE: Passing one man's physical  
BillKo : 8/4/2015 10:08 am : link
In comment 12400605 sphinx said:
Quote:
is not passing another man's physical. See Carlos Gomez


Exactly. We see players cut all the time due to failing a physical, then resurface somewhere else.

Combination of the injury, lack of physical conditioning, and not knowing the new scheme.......all are going to dictate him going to NFI when he does sign.

This is not pickup touch football on Sunday mornings.
why does everyone assume we'll NFI him?  
fkap : 8/4/2015 1:32 pm : link
if he signs now, and isn't going to be ready til game 5-6, yeah, we'd probably NFI him. Whether he'd see any coin is questionable.

but if he signs week 4-5, and looks to be ready in a game or two, the Giants are not likely to NFI him and lose him for 6 weeks on top of the games he's already missed. They want him on the field. That's what JPP is angling for: getting an extra week or two of pay when he's still marginal. the fewer the games that the Giants have to carry him as on the roster, but inactive, the less likely it is that they'd NFI him.

I continue to think they'll come to a compromise when it becomes clearer when he'll be able to resume training/get on the field.
I wonder if this is the standard  
Bubba : 8/4/2015 1:37 pm : link
NFL physical and will it include some specific requirements for the use of his hand. Does anyone know what these physicals entail? I'm sure its not the same as the one I just had.
fkap  
JonC : 8/4/2015 1:43 pm : link
Does the NFI designation mean he sits for six weeks? If so, I hadn't read that.
when the hubbub first started  
fkap : 8/4/2015 1:49 pm : link
that's what I recall: if he starts the season on NFI, he's out for 6 weeks (I think it was 2 less than the PUP). I'm presuming that the 6 games starts if he signs mid season and he's put on NFI, although I admit that's just a presumption. I'm pretty sure that if he signs now and gets put on NFI for game 1, he's out for 6 weeks.
A quick search  
JonC : 8/4/2015 1:58 pm : link
indicates NFI operates as the Regular Season PUP does.

Need clarification if NFI operates like the Pre-season PUP if his recovery window is expected to be short, eg he'd be back at practice before the regular season begins.

Otherwise, he's put on NFI when the regular season begins, and he's then out six games unpaid, at a minimum.
RE: A quick search  
Enoch : 8/4/2015 2:45 pm : link
In comment 12401586 JonC said:
Quote:
indicates NFI operates as the Regular Season PUP does.

Need clarification if NFI operates like the Pre-season PUP if his recovery window is expected to be short, eg he'd be back at practice before the regular season begins.

Otherwise, he's put on NFI when the regular season begins, and he's then out six games unpaid, at a minimum.


He'd be out 6 games, but the "unpaid" part is at the team's discretion. A team can choose to pay a player on NFI if it wants to.
RE: RE: A quick search  
JonC : 8/4/2015 2:54 pm : link
In comment 12401658 Enoch said:
Quote:
In comment 12401586 JonC said:


Quote:


indicates NFI operates as the Regular Season PUP does.

Need clarification if NFI operates like the Pre-season PUP if his recovery window is expected to be short, eg he'd be back at practice before the regular season begins.

Otherwise, he's put on NFI when the regular season begins, and he's then out six games unpaid, at a minimum.



He'd be out 6 games, but the "unpaid" part is at the team's discretion. A team can choose to pay a player on NFI if it wants to.


Understood. Do we know if NFI during the pre-season operates differently?
Meaning if he's put on NFI during the pre-season  
JonC : 8/4/2015 2:59 pm : link
does the six regular season games still apply?
from memory  
fkap : 8/4/2015 3:26 pm : link
(always a very iffy reference source), I recall it was almost exactly like the PUP: can be on the list all preseason, and taken off at any time. when game one rolls around, if you're still on the list, you're on it for 6 games minimum. If you're taken off prior to game one, you're counted on the roster (while you're on the list, you don't count). I think there's some rules about whether you can attend meetings/practices once the season starts.
rules about meetings  
fkap : 8/4/2015 3:29 pm : link
IF he's on the NFI once the season starts.

If he's not on NFI, he's just like any other player on the roster.
ok roger that  
JonC : 8/4/2015 3:35 pm : link
thanks.
JonC  
nygirlie : 8/4/2015 7:12 pm : link
NF/I operates like PUP if JPP is on the NF/I list **when** the season starts...misses at least 6 games etc.

IF NF/I operates like PUP and IR, then if JPP signs and is put on NF/I **after** the season has started, he would not be able to play at all. You cannot be put on PUP after the season has begun, only IR. So NF/I cannot work exactly like PUP.

Nobody seems to know if JPP were put on NF\I and taken off later
-whether he could play at all
- whether he would have to miss 6 games from the date he was put on NF/I
- whether he could play immediately.

It is not stated in the CBA that I can find.
The third paragraph  
nygirlie : 8/4/2015 7:16 pm : link
Refers to being put on NF/I after the season begins.
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