Revisited discussion: At what point were you sold on Eli?

in that Cowboys game. The leadership and ice became apparent.

in 2007. Eli was horrible and the team was ready to crumble. But he finished the game strong and threw two fourth quarter touchdowns to pull the game out.

that seems like bullshit.

He confirmed he had it.

I didn't know that. Why would you want a franchise QB, we went all in for, gone?

thinking he is the QB of the future, but that doesn't look bright

So sometime after that I guess

In comment 12406656 Old Dirty Beckham said:

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that seems like bullshit.

Sweet!

the way he rebounded after the Wash/Balt debacles told me had the goods.

In comment 12406660 AnishPatel said:

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I didn't know that. Why would you want a franchise QB, we went all in for, gone?

Because I thought he was frustratingly inconsistent despite flashes..I never thought he had what it took to succeed at the highest level..Funny in retrospect..:)

There were always signs.. most people will say the 05 comeback against Denver was where they first felt it. Some will go all the way back to the finale in 04.

The 06 comeback against the Eagles was a good one. But there were a lot of ups and downs over the first few years.

For me, I think the moment where I really thought to myself "this is the guy, no doubt about it" was in Green Bay in January of 2008. That game showed me that Eli was tough as nails and that he could thrive in any situation. It was one of the most impressive performances I've seen from a QB given the conditions and what was on the line.

sold on him as at the very least a competent NFL starter - 2004 game vs. Steelers
sold on him as a clutch QB with guts - 2005 vs. Denver
sold on him as a true franchise QB - 2007 NFC Championship vs. Green Bay

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...

remember doubting he'd be a good to very good QB with time.
But, I had the benefit of seeing him play several games in college.
I was pretty confident he'd be good, just didn't know when.
TC's offense is not easy on young QBs and they force fed him at a very rapid pace.

In comment 12406670 Big Blue '56 said:

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In comment 12406660 AnishPatel said: Quote: I didn't know that. Why would you want a franchise QB, we went all in for, gone? Because I thought he was frustratingly inconsistent despite flashes..I never thought he had what it took to succeed at the highest level..Funny in retrospect..:)

I saw the same. I always loathed the stupid ass system we ran. I hated Coughlins initial hires of Tim Lewis and Hufangel. Notice, Eli got better when Gilbride took over? That's when we saw progress. Even with kevin G, I thought the system should be changed. My biggest worry was Eli staying the same system for his whole career while other QBs got to be in 2 or even 3. I never really wanted him gone. I wanted Hufangel gone and the system.

I am glad for this new system, and I think our fan base as well as other fan bases can actually see how good Eli can be in this system.

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11/22/2003 vs LSU was all I needed to see,

and defended him to my friends. The vikings game was a low point (FU Shockey), but the Denver game kind of catalyzed the feeling that yes, Eli will be fine.

and then the on field presence was really showing week 1 at Dallas in 2007.

you beat me to it.. Pitt his rookie was when I was sold. Remember it like it was yesterday saying to my brother if Eli doesn't have a great game against Ben, not the Steelers, i'd give up on him..

Hell of a game. Still think Toomer was interfered with.

Blame TC's insane offense for it taking so damn long.

himself up off the ground on almost every offensive play in 2004, appearing unphased and just going on to the next play.
I was thinking, this guy is either too dumb to get angry or a cool character under pressure; I wonder what he could do with a decent OL.
The 2005 Denver game got me fired up.
The 2006 Philly comeback sold me.

Seriously, I thought Eli was going to be good after the Steelers game in his rookie year.

I started doubting myself after the Vikings game in 2007 for a couple of days.

In comment 12406659 JonC said:

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He confirmed he had it.

Agreed. Watching him in 2005 I knew he had it.

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That was a bigtime performance.

I felt he was going to be the best QB in Giants history.

Now I would be lying if I didn't say I had some doubts along the way. Minnesota in '07 jumps quickly to mind.

and I'll throw an oddball out there...Minnesota 2007, the disaster where he threw three pick-6s. The fact that he recovered from that and didn't turn into Mark Sanchez proved he was a franchise QB

2005, but he took a few more lumps after that year.

but, I really didn't want to pay the price to trade up and get him.

2007 against the Patriots.

Until then we had seen so many inconsistent performance I was worried the peaks were never going to be high enough to justify the lows.

I was wrong.

Plax's first game...I was all in from there on. Rookie year was full of lumps, but he showed promise near seasons end. But that first game against the Rams had me nodding in agreement for Ernie making the deal.

Rams team that did not give up a TD in 3 games. Eli dropped 3 on the with 300 yards. I knew then, he was special....jk Denver bronco game in 2005.

In comment 12406815 Mdgiantsfan said:

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Plax's first game...I was all in from there on. Rookie year was full of lumps, but he showed promise near seasons end. But that first game against the Rams had me nodding in agreement for Ernie making the deal.

2005

of the 2005 season is the 557 passing attempts for Eli. I remember being so mad about it. Ben had 268 passing attempts in 12 games, while Rivers had 460 in 2006, his first full season.

With Tiki Barber in his prime, I thought we should have done a lot better job protecting Eli, via running the ball, and quick passing concepts, like we are utilizing now. We had a good running game, good RB, who could catch the ball. I would have tried to ease him in to the speed of the game by having him rely on others.

In comment 12406688 Wuphat said:

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Ditto.

I was at the bar by myself watching that game. Me and several Giants fans jumped up and down hugging each other after he hit Toomer in the endzone. I knew that day he would win us a Lombardi.

I believed we found our guy on draft day in 04. At no point in time through the years (04 Baltimore and Washington, 05 Carolina playoff game, 07 Minnesota) did I ever NOT think he was our guy.

I have had unwavering support of Eli from day one and I'm damn proud of it because it wasnt always easy or popular. Seeing others rally around him through the years has been both rewarding and at other times annoying as there is sort of a bandwagon feel to it, but it is what it is.

If you appreciate class, toughness, hard work, and a reserved demeanor then you were always sold. His physical talent was always obvious, even in some of the lofty interception years.

Some of my personal favorite Eli games include:

05 San Diego on the road
06 Philly on the road
07 Chicago on the road
11 Dallas on the road
Both NFC Title games

You take a look at those games and realize the mental toughness and balls this guy has is unreal.

Physical poundings, comebacks, great defenses, elements, hostile environments, overcoming mistakes. That handful of games includes it all, and just about anything you'd ever want from your QB.

In comment 12406815 Mdgiantsfan said:

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Plax's first game...I was all in from there on. Rookie year was full of lumps, but he showed promise near seasons end. But that first game against the Rams had me nodding in agreement for Ernie making the deal.

I remember that game. He hit Shockey down the seem about 35 yards and the ball was only where Shockey could get it. That was the first glimmer. Denver game sealed it.

In comment 12406762 Phil in LA said:

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but, I really didn't want to pay the price to trade up and get him.

+1

so you were ok with Collins moving forward(I was)?

In comment 12406651 Randy in CT said:

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in that Cowboys game. The leadership and ice became apparent.

Randy - You stole my answer

Loved the trade. Loved the pick. Loved the player.

That's when I first saw the "magic" that Accorsi spoke of in his scouting report.

Being down 13 points late in the fourth quarter, throwing what seemed like a game icing INT late (on a crossing route that Plaxico gave up on, and Champ Bailey, I think, made an incredible diving play on the ball... An effort Plaxico could have made because he had position, but I digress...)... To return from that and lead his team on that drive... And that was the first game I think his team bought in, too... I remember Strahan standing on the bench the whole drive and going crazy when he threw that TD...

That was it for me. I'll never forget it. Amani Toomer, the Bronco killer.

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I think after Plax first arrived. We were down by a ton going into the fourth quarter, IIRC, and Eli threw what felt like a million TDs, and we won in OT.

I remember getting the feeling that the kid just had a magical 5th gear sitting in his pocket. If the mediocre Giants could keep it close long-enough, Eli would find a way to outlast everyone late in the game.

The two Supes and a million comebacks confirmed that theory. None better than the legendary 4th quarter at Candlestick in January 2011. Getting hammered and hammered and hammered in the rain, but it was too little, too late. Eli was already in the zone. It was just a matter of time.

I don't know if that's actually how it happened, but that's how I'll tell my daughter it went down.

When he changed the play.... wow. That took guts.... for a QB that was winless.

The other point was SD, on the road, the next year. The fans were completely on him and he came out and played a damn good game (but the GMen lost). None the less, it was pretty early that I was sold.

To put up THOSE numbers, in THAT atmosphere? Ice water in his vanes...

That's not to say he didn't make me scratch my head (many, many times) after that game. But I knew he eventually would do great things for this team...

I snuck 2 rows behind the Giants bench after the third quarter, with my brother. The stadium was absolutely electric. When Eli hit Shockey for 20 yards, to get us inside the 10, the stadium shook. I went home after that game and watched the final minutes at least five times.

That's when I believed in Eli..

Watch "NY Giants Game Winning Drives - 2005 vs Broncos" - ( New Window )

bouncing back after an abysmal performance against Baltimore to nearly steal a game from a better Pittsburgh team. The other game was the Dallas game.

In comment 12406693 GMenLTS said:

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Same here in his junior year I distinctively remember saying I would give my left nut for us to suck bad enough the next season to get him

see above

In comment 12406675 Enzo said:

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sold on him as at the very least a competent NFL starter - 2004 game vs. Steelers sold on him as a clutch QB with guts - 2005 vs. Denver sold on him as a true franchise QB - 2007 NFC Championship vs. Green Bay

Although I also agree with Brett that I gave up on Eli after the '07 Minny loss. I was so disappointed after that one. But he bounced back so damn well that year to lead us to a Super Bowl.

up to that point I wavered between 04 give him a chance to mature because he absolutely sucked some of those games and he's got his moments but too inconsistent to be the future.

I still don't think he's the greatest thing since sliced bread, but he's a danged good QB and I'm glad he's on the team.

at "Hello"

04

Knew he'd be #1 pick an NFL star and great to have ... but we had Collins so I never figured later on we'd draft a QB ...
But in that Cotton Bowl game ... I recall 2 things still ... the total command he had on the field ... even with not a lot of talent to work with ... and running the clock out after OSU came storming back ... When we got him ... I knew he was the QB for us ...

lot of people gave up on Eli early on.
Then more jumped ship after that Minny game.
Dave in DC had a thread titled "I want another QB" the Monday after that game.
Reading the thread, it was obvious he wasn't alone.

A few weeks later many of those posters were taking a bite out of a shit-sandwich of their own making.
Quite a few of the Eli detractors have left the site.

I'm sure someone misses them.

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I'll deliver.

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I Want Another QB Dave in DC : 6:00 pm Seriously, and I don't really care who it is....enough already with this after 4 years...he's not getting better, he's had his best days, and he hasn't earned our support...act like you can make a fucking play once in a millennium, and we will support you. Throwing the ball into the ground a millisecond after you realize Shockey isn't getting open doesn't endear you to the fans...realize it's not there, look down field, and at least try and make play. Eli--you suck. Really, you absolutely fucking suck...welcome to the curse...you have fucked this team long enough...OK, maybe we make the playoffs again...I don't fucking care..you suck, and we go no where as long as you are QB'ing this team. Get me anyone else...anyone. And I got shit for calling Jacobs a pussy? lono801 : 6:02 pm Pony Up Dave....or find another team.... Nope Dave in DC : 6:03 pm this is MY team...I don't care if you called Jacobs a pussy--it's your opinion---my opinion is that I want another QB. like we Gene Too : 6:03 pm couldn't see thread this coming from a mile away. this thread Gene Too : 6:03 pm ... the thing teamschlitz : 6:05 pm with the shockey play is... it was a screen, so you have lineman downfield, you cannot scramble and throw it, cause it will be a penalty, you either have to tuck it and run right away or do what he did and ground it. Don't react when you're pisssd off... okiegiant : 6:05 pm Give yourself time to settle down. As for the screen play I don't think Manning had much of an option. I'm sure linemen were getting close to being downfield and I doubt if the play called for Shockey to run a screen while someone else was running a fly pattern. Most of the WR's were probably concentrating on making blocks. Like they say kmed : 6:06 pm takes one to know one. this QB's OK but he's not going to get it done without help bc4life : 6:07 pm This offseason, keep trying to upgrade the OLine. And, keep looking for another dangerous receiver. U know what DaZeesterLevee : 6:07 pm its not all Manning. Bad routes, bad play calling and lack of ability to run the ball has hurt. I could swear that if Eli played in Peyton's offense, he would be two hundred percent better why dont you call whine-1-1 Sonic Youth : 6:08 pm so you can get a wahhmbulance. <p> god, what a baby. I Called Your Mother Dave in DC : 6:08 pm she said Eli sucks. I completely lawguy9801 : 6:09 pm agree Dave. take a look MookGiants : 6:10 pm at QB's around the league and then keep complaining about Eli. There are PLENTY of teams who would love to have him as their quarterback. This idea that we can find someone better is incredibly stupid. And no, Jackson isn't better than him. One fucking game doesn't make him a bad quarterback No one gives a shit what you want Go Terps : 6:10 pm We want you to stop starting threads, yet it continues. You can have Tom Brady as your QB Steve in South Jersey : 6:10 pm just switch to the Patriots. of course you do Dave joepa : 6:11 pm fans like you who are predictable in their overreaction after a loss never seem to see how silly they sound loving a guy after a win and wanting to get rid of him after a bad game. If you were a Cowboy fan you would have written the same thing after the Buffalo game. Dave GMANinDC : 6:11 pm I was wondering where you were?..last week must have an illusion when you were talking about Eli.. This idea.. Sean in PA : 6:12 pm that we can just dump Eli and find somebody better is ridiculous. He played like shit today and is an average QB, but getting rid of him won't solve anything, it'll make things worse. I want another too Some Fan : 6:12 pm but I have some requirements. (i) He needs to have some fire as I am sick of these duds and stiffs we have had as QBs since Simms; (ii) he needs to have a good arm (not great, just good) and be accurate throwing the ball and (iii) he nees to have some athletic ability. I'm not talking like a Michael Vick; I would settle for a BenR or a Cutler type of scrambling ability. Let's get that and leave the "Name" behind. Dave, I generally bobbykane : 6:13 pm disagree with you most of the time, but always respect your thoughtful posts. Is that you or is your 12 year old son using your handle today? Eli Dave in DC : 6:13 pm played a mature, nice game against Detroit...I praised him...today was pathetic...absolutely pathetic....IMO it was the worst performance in the entire NFL in the year 2007...none worse...none. Eli had a horrible game..horrible yankees78 : 6:15 pm but good god..calm down..he is not this piece of crap you seem to think he is.. Sometimes I really do hope Eli does leave this team..and finds peace elsewhere.. I hope he finds peace elsewhere too Some Fan : 6:18 pm It would bebetter for all involved. sarcasm? bobbykane : 6:18 pm maybe? there'll be no peace for the Manning boy bc4life : 6:18 pm He's doomed to roam the earth forever being compared to Peyton Dave nedhiggins : 6:20 pm you struck me as one of the more mature, knowledgable posters on BBI. I have to question this kind of threat. Is it a bit...reactionary? I realize that Eli has not been good but I think he's only a part of the problem. The team is still 7-4 regardless of how bad he played. And what better options are there out there that wouldn't require us to give up a ton? I suppose you could take a flyer on a mid round pick but I wouldn't want the team to break the bank before they are 100% sure that Eli is not the answer. .... nedhiggins : 6:20 pm thread* not threat Take a chill pill Sec 103 : 6:21 pm Guess you never had a terrible day at work? Yes, he sucked, yes, he regressed. The O line was taking a beating, the pass rush of the Vikes was on fire. The receivers were running shit routes, and he did SUCK... Such is life. I just hope the bastid rebounds next week and plays a better game, but we were exposed without a running game. I am disappointed with this game, but I can't throw him under the bus even though I gave my son my Eli Jersey, I'll never wear that one again. Dave, move on bro... Romo spike : 6:21 pm had a pretty crappy game against Buffalo too. You want another QB? BigBlueBrethren : 6:24 pm Find another team to root for, Eli Manning is the QB of the Giants. Dave FilmGiant : 6:24 pm "Eli Dave in DC : 6:13 pm played a mature, nice game against Detroit...I praised him...today was pathetic...absolutely pathetic....IMO it was the worst performance in the entire NFL in the year 2007...none worse...none." And thats the way its going to be with him. An "Eli Good" game followed by a horrendous game like today. 6 more years of that. Next week he might play well and everyone will bust your chops. They'll chase you down to bust your chops. Then you'll get your turn when we lose to Philly and he throws 3 picks. THIS is the Manning we've chosen. Somebody get a box of canoli and take him for a ride. Compared to Peyton? FilmGiant : 6:25 pm Hell he can't smell Romo's jock! Gents Dave in DC : 6:26 pm Thanks...listen, I do try and be objective...I like comparing different aspects of the team from a stats base, watch the games, perspective, but today threw me over the edge for 2007...we did nothing well...our weaknesses were exposed, out strengths neutralized...and Eli, the Captain of the ship, absolutely shit the bed (again) at a time we needed him most. we all sat there, all week long, worrying about the RBs, the WR dings, etc, and Eli, the healthy four year starter guy, de3cided to fuck us with an absolute shit game. Once again he is proving that he cannot handle the rigors of the NFL with another second half shit performance...when will we learn. Romo's performance in Buffalo was not better than Eli's today. Exit 172 : 6:28 pm Unless you have a warped agenda. Dave GMANinDC : 6:29 pm I understand your frustration..but this is the way i look at it, we're stuck with the guys regardless..unless he opts out and wants top money..if we keep him, which i think we will, we have to rebuild the team to make it to his stengths..they play calling will have to changed to go to more 3 stop passes, roll-outs, and play-action.. You know what shocks me most kmed : 6:29 pm there are actually 2 or 3 people that respect and value Dave's opinion normally. That's just nuts. The Shockey screen play HBart : 6:31 pm Was very interesting. To just ditch the ball like that so quickly was bizarre. It got me wondering about what the coaches are looking for in that situation. BTW, I understand Dave's point very well. Yeah, there are teams who wish they had Eli. Yeah, we can win with Eli if we build a superior team around him. But this whole week to week wondering what Eli you get, and the need for perfection around him, and lack of big plays and creativity from the QB, and the general dysfunction of the O, is getting old. This is supposed to be entertainment. I cannot believe the way supposed adults behave Rob : 6:32 pm when the Giants shit the bed... HBat/Gman Dave in DC : 6:33 pm thanks to you both....hard to express my feelings right now, but you two, two of the more intelligent posters here, have good things to say...appreciate it. incredible Mr. Shadow : 6:35 pm look at me.....look at me....... incredible Mr. Shadow : 6:35 pm look at me.....look at me....... incredible Mr. Shadow : 6:35 pm look at me.....look at me....... incredible Mr. Shadow : 6:35 pm look at me.....look at me....... incredible Mr. Shadow : 6:35 pm look at me.....look at me....... incredible Mr. Shadow : 6:35 pm look at me.....look at me....... Monty Burns (Mr Shadow) Dave in DC : 6:37 pm Did you pay your BBI bet? Bill wanted me to ask. Thanks Mr Shadow (Monty Burns)....let us know. THE BOTTOM LINE ON MANNING IS ... The Giffer : 6:41 pm when you give away the franchise for a QB, middle of the road or worse is certainly not acceptable and YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO GET A BIG ARM. That he does not have. Give Cutler et als. Dave Sy'56 : 6:42 pm The Shockey play you cried about.... I was at the game...he was the only one in a route. There were no other targets and/or options. Know your facts next time. Exactly... BigBlueBrethren : 6:49 pm It was a TE screen, and Shockey had no chance...that is the play you point to? Get a clue. LOL Exit 172 : 6:51 pm . Dave GMenLTS : 6:54 pm IMHO, you haven't a fucking clue on this issue of Eli Manning's play. had eli thrown the ball gmen99 : 6:55 pm at that point, it would have been a "illegal block downfield" penalty because the lineman were already engaged with defenders, thinking it was a screen pass. eli saved us the 10 yard penalty there. Dave gidiefor : 6:59 pm you need to take a little time off buddy - I'm as pissed off as you are - but you are way over reacting right now - you need to chill a little and then take another look at this Who Dave? lono801 : 7:01 pm Spend a draft pick? A trade? Who do you want? I'm behind dave 100% here 27 : 7:03 pm and that's something that I usually can't say

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Sy56 and GMENLTS giving it to Dave!

gave him a pretty good cuff upside the head as well.

That excerpt was an interesting ride down memory lane.

Does anyone else have the thread where Dave is destroying Eli for being a shitty leader? I remember getting into that thread pretty heavily.

Dave was a huge Rivers fan..

In comment 12406747 Torrag said:

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That was a bigtime performance.

This was it for me.

but it was Superbowl 42 that made me truly confident in him. That whole post season run, really. I guess the Dallas game might have been more of a watershed moment.

Holy fuck, that Dallas Divisional Round Game was one of the best NYG moments I've ever witnessed.

THATS MY TEAMMATE. THATS MY QUARTERBACK.

FUCK YOU TO! CRYBABY

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And, as usual, I was the voice of calm and reason in a swirling storm of crap.

In comment 12407439 okiegiant said:

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And, as usual, I was the voice of calm and reason in a swirling storm of crap.

:)

Best poster on the board:

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Don't react when you're pisssd off... okiegiant : 6:05 pm Give yourself time to settle down. As for the screen play I don't think Manning had much of an option. I'm sure linemen were getting close to being downfield and I doubt if the play called for Shockey to run a screen while someone else was running a fly pattern. Most of the WR's were probably concentrating on making blocks.

'Fuck Eli'

What a stain.

but he seemed to get angrier over the years.

Brett, I'm gonna take your comment as a compliment even though I know you're being facetious!

Lol, it is a compliment - most of the rational people on that thread are ones I continue to enjoy reading now.

...

a lot of youse cite Minnesota 2007, but we all know in hindsight that 2 or 3 of those INTs were directly caused by the receivers running a bad route.

Notice how quick the ball was coming out vs Warner.

In comment 12407427 Britt in VA said:

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Yeah, another beauty.
Wanted to re-sign Eli for 6-7 mil a year.

You're winding me up Britt and I'm taking the bait.

here's a nightcap for you, although I must warn you:

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Caution - this thread contains objective stats. The Surgeon General has concluded that presenting and discussing such stats qualifies as intelligent football discussion, but nonetheless may irritate people with teen idol crushes on players who fare poorly in said presentations.

QBR & winning, and spinning the Eli wheel 11/3/2009 - ( New Window )

This is beautiful.

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This thread should be archived Chicken Teriyaki Boy : 11/3/2009 11:29 am : link so we have something to remember the Anti-Eli Brigade by when they fade back into the woodwork after the next Super Bowl victory.

The 3-4 biggest Eli critics on that thread are all inactive at this time

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In comment 12406675 Enzo said:

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sold on him as at the very least a competent NFL starter - 2004 game vs. Steelers sold on him as a clutch QB with guts - 2005 vs. Denver sold on him as a true franchise QB - 2007 NFC Championship vs. Green Bay

That's an excellent breakdown for me too. Would top it off with the 2011 NFC 'Ship in SF. That game began to change my thinking about Eli being HOF worthy. Before that I'd thought NO HOF, because of his lack of consistency and failure to post stats that matchup against the top QBs of his own era. But in that game he was 1 of a kind tough and put in a legendary leader performance for the ages. And phuck the stats.

In comment 12407170 PEEJ said:

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at "Hello"

Same here. I believed in him from the get-go and never lost that belief or questioned that belief for a second.

Been down with Eli...

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@ GB in 2012.

He continues be inconsistent but going into halftime, I knew we had another ring.

Today, I trust him to get another.

Being SOLD on someone is a BOLD statement.

A comeback win against Denver doesn't cut it, 2007 doesn't either. That is confident.

SOLD is a done deal.

The Giants lost but Eli was spectacular that night. 100% true story, the next day I was telling a couple of my buddies that the loss stung but I had no doubt after that game the Giants had a quarterback they could win a championship with.