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Anyone else baffled on lack of Oline signings once again

Ronzo15 : 8/9/2015 4:56 pm
All the reports that I have been hearing is about injuries and people not being impressed with the production of the Oline. Yes it's early but this has been the same issue for the last couple of years. We have no depth and a lot of under performers. Sign Mathis and take a shot at jake long. Not sure what the front offices rationale is. Newhouse doesn't look good that because he sucks. He has always sucked. He isn't going to magically turn into a great player. Take a chance on a guy with a proven track record or upside. Maybe they want eli to get hurt?
First, cap.  
81_Great_Dane : 8/9/2015 5:10 pm : link
Second, I don't know how you judge the state of the O-line when there's only been one full-contact practice. I think the team's attitude is "We got these guys, we got them for a reason, we go with them until we have a good reason to make a change." (In other words, fans panic, pros are more patient.)

Third, the Giants are surely watching other teams' training camp cuts, and may pick up some of those.

Fourth, most of the unsigned free agents aren't going anywhere, there's no rush.

Fifth, you may yet see a move before the season starts.
Fuckin A Right..  
JCin332 : 8/9/2015 5:11 pm : link
Long has met with at least three teams  
PEEJ : 8/9/2015 5:21 pm : link
and remains unsigned. It seems to me that he isn't physically capable of playing.
No  
Big Blue '56 : 8/9/2015 5:38 pm : link
.
Agreed. Here's what I don't get  
BillT : 8/9/2015 5:39 pm : link
They had a safety get injured and went and signed another safety. They had a WR get hurt and went and signed another WR. They had a DE get injured and went and signed another DE. so Beatty got hurt and Schwartz is struggling with an ankle and nothing. And it's not the cap because hey could sign guys like Long or Blalock for near vet min. Why?
Long is pretty clearly not in good enough physical condition.  
arcarsenal : 8/9/2015 5:41 pm : link
The same fans who keep saying the Giants have the worst injury luck and are cursed are the ones who are clamoring for them to go out and sign Jake Long who has a sordid injury history of his own. Then when he gets hurt again, they'll blame the Giants for signing a guy who was in bad shape.

There's really no winning here.
I  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/9/2015 6:12 pm : link
am very surprised they didn't sign anyone this offseason other than the CFL guy.
And AFAIK, the CFL guy hasn't been mentioned in camp once  
David B. : 8/9/2015 6:17 pm : link
Obviously no one is willing to take a chance on Jake Long for more than minimum, so even if he came in, why would anyone expect much?
Maybe just maybe  
eli4life : 8/9/2015 6:53 pm : link
They didn't want to come here unless we paid way over what they are worth
Blalock retired  
mikeygiants : 8/9/2015 7:03 pm : link
.
maybe, but  
SirYesSir : 8/9/2015 7:10 pm : link
they did add
1. Flowers and Hart
2. Maybe they liked Newhouse more than most (whether they are right or not is still to be seen)
3. Maybe they consider Schwartz returning like adding a good FA
4. They can still add depth through cuts or guys yet to prove their health
5. In an emergency they can still go after a guy like Mathis

I wouldn't say I'm baffled, they did some things, and they have other positions to address too.
and I'll add  
SirYesSir : 8/9/2015 7:11 pm : link
If he can stay healthy enough to get reps, I would expect Schwartz to be our starting RT, with Jerry or Mosely at RG
RE: Long has met with at least three teams  
LauderdaleMatty : 8/9/2015 7:12 pm : link
In comment 12409761 PEEJ said:
Quote:
and remains unsigned. It seems to me that he isn't physically capable of playing.


No. He's waiting to make the most he can. As is Mathis. Plenty of Vets hold off looking for he best deal. He's one of them. And he's a Vet as is Mathis. They don't need to be in day one. Wait till someone loses a T w an ACL.
Well...  
Jerry K : 8/9/2015 8:10 pm : link
They did sign Marshall Newhouse and Brent Jones. But if you want to say that's nobody I won't quibble.

And I supposed they thought Mosley might work out, or maybe Eric Herman. Regarding Mathis and Long. It might be a matter of money. With Long it might be his health (do we really want another hobbled lineman?). Initially, with Mathis I thought it might be the fact that we were okay at guard and he is older and expensive.

Whatever the reasons, we suck at this offensive line stuff. Oh yeah, If Schwartz continues to rest on a gurney maybe we could get some dentist to pay to sport hunt him.
We're not okay at Guard because you can't count on Schwartz  
Victor in CT : 8/9/2015 8:17 pm : link
They need to add somebody. Mathis makes sense, Long too if healthy.
Our great talent purveyor doing what he does best  
Johnny Boy : 8/9/2015 8:23 pm : link
"Do nothing and see what happens!" The sooner we get a GM with an idea the better we'll be. This guy is clueless!
What makes more logical sense?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/9/2015 8:30 pm : link
They are just refusing to do anything, or there's nobody good that's readily available?

Long is coming off major surgery (and the irony is he'd probably have to be managed just like any other injured player i.e. Schwartz)

Mathis is 34 years old and wants serious money

These sounds like fantastic options.
The Beatty injury really hurt and  
ChathamMark : 8/9/2015 8:31 pm : link
threw us for a loop. Came after the draft and free agency. If he was healthy, we'd be singing a different tune.
RE: What makes more logical sense?  
arcarsenal : 8/9/2015 8:34 pm : link
In comment 12409896 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
They are just refusing to do anything, or there's nobody good that's readily available?

Long is coming off major surgery (and the irony is he'd probably have to be managed just like any other injured player i.e. Schwartz)

Mathis is 34 years old and wants serious money

These sounds like fantastic options.


It's much easier to just stamp your feet and act like a petulant child than use logic.

Let's forget that there aren't really any legitimate options sitting out there right now or that we've spent numerous premium picks on the position in recent years.. much easier to just call Reese clueless and run with the narrative that he's doing "nothing".
Baffled?  
Lithium : 8/9/2015 8:41 pm : link
Nope. Jerry likes to sign retreads and no names during the free agency period. That's how he goes about his business for the oline; A unit needed to protect their 100 million dollar investment. Hell, his big ticket item last year was a guy who started 9 games. So far, the useless slug has dressed 2 times for them and continues to miss practice.
Baffled  
Lithium : 8/9/2015 8:46 pm : link
That many dolts on this board believed a Canadian had a chance to be an opening starter.
RE: I  
BillT : 8/9/2015 8:58 pm : link
In comment 12409792 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
am very surprised they didn't sign anyone this offseason other than the CFL guy.

They signed Jerry and Newhouse and Jones.
I'm thinking (or maybe hoping)  
Gman11 : 8/9/2015 9:12 pm : link
that the lack of signings is because they're going to negate the pass rush by running more and throwing more screens, slants, outs, etc. where Eli only takes a 3 step drop.
Sad.....  
Doomster : 8/9/2015 9:15 pm : link
3. Maybe they consider Schwartz returning like adding a good FA

Yeah, that's why they made Schwartz restructure his contract where he loses money if he doesn't play.....

This is another free agent acquisition by Reese who hasn't panned out....
RE: and I'll add  
B in ALB : 8/9/2015 9:20 pm : link
In comment 12409832 SirYesSir said:
Quote:
If he can stay healthy enough to get reps, I would expect Schwartz to be our starting RT, with Jerry or Mosely at RG


Schwartz isn't a T. A guy with miles with a leg injury and you expect him to be a Tackle? Holy shit. Can't wait to see that kick and bucket in a futile attempt to block an outside rusher who will undoubtedly have easy leverage because Schwartz can't move. Great call. As usual.

You have no clue about offensive line play and personnel right? Literally no clue. It's OK. Just stop posting bullshit. Fair enough?

Schwartz has to be hid inside. He has no capacity to move in a lateral form to not only block a pass rushing DE, but also a blitzing LB in either gap, or good forbid trying to get him in space on screens and quick throws which are as staple of McDs offense.

Good lord.
Two out of the first three draft picks  
Giants2012 : 8/9/2015 9:28 pm : link
should have been allocated towards the OL at least once out f the past two drafts IMO.


BillT  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/9/2015 9:50 pm : link
I don't count re-signing John Jerry as a new addition.

Yes, should have remember Newhouse, but he may end up like Charles Brown.
RE: The Beatty injury really hurt and  
Boy Cord : 8/9/2015 10:11 pm : link
In comment 12409898 ChathamMark said:
Quote:
threw us for a loop. Came after the draft and free agency. If he was healthy, we'd be singing a different tune.


Agreed. Although, that tune on BBI would go something like, Beatty is soft, injury prone, and overpaid.
The interesting thing  
DavidinBMNY : 8/9/2015 10:48 pm : link
is the definite interest in Long and none in Mathis.
RE: RE: and I'll add  
SirYesSir : 8/9/2015 11:23 pm : link
In comment 12409946 B in ALB said:
Quote:
In comment 12409832 SirYesSir said:


Quote:


If he can stay healthy enough to get reps, I would expect Schwartz to be our starting RT, with Jerry or Mosely at RG



Schwartz isn't a T. A guy with miles with a leg injury and you expect him to be a Tackle? Holy shit. Can't wait to see that kick and bucket in a futile attempt to block an outside rusher who will undoubtedly have easy leverage because Schwartz can't move. Great call. As usual.

You have no clue about offensive line play and personnel right? Literally no clue. It's OK. Just stop posting bullshit. Fair enough?

Schwartz has to be hid inside. He has no capacity to move in a lateral form to not only block a pass rushing DE, but also a blitzing LB in either gap, or good forbid trying to get him in space on screens and quick throws which are as staple of McDs offense.

Good lord.



Schwartz has played tackle in the past while at KC, and has played tackle already in camp during some of the practices. You caught me, I'm not a paid O-Line coach. But unless his health is alot worse than we've been led to believe, then yes I think he's a strong option for that spot. If it turns out he can't physically go, then you'll be right.

in fact  
SirYesSir : 8/9/2015 11:26 pm : link
Schwartz played RT last year (for our current OC) when he came back in November. But my bad, we would never think of playing him there...


lonk - ( New Window )
I think that David Diehl becoming a serviceable/good LT  
Mike from SI : 8/10/2015 12:16 am : link
unfortunately confirmed for Reese either that we could under-invest in the OLine vis-a-vis other positions or count on guys changing positions seamlessly. (I may be reading too much into it, though.)
Very....  
prdave73 : 8/10/2015 12:45 am : link
I don't care how many weapon the Giants have, they will not succeed without a solid Oline.. This team will continue to struggle as long as Reese continues to gamble on this key position. What bugs me the most is Eli doesn't have much time left.
RE: RE: Long has met with at least three teams  
BlueLou : 8/10/2015 4:25 am : link
In comment 12409833 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
In comment 12409761 PEEJ said:


Quote:


and remains unsigned. It seems to me that he isn't physically capable of playing.



No. He's waiting to make the most he can. As is Mathis. Plenty of Vets hold off looking for he best deal. He's one of them. And he's a Vet as is Mathis. They don't need to be in day one. Wait till someone loses a T w an ACL.


Bingo Matty. It's the money, and these guys are in no rush to take vet min. They are proven players.
Giants will  
area junc : 8/10/2015 8:34 am : link
find something about O-Line today
pugh going against geno atkins who is dominating their camp and the bengals having a stauch front 7
their rookie linebacker paul dawson has been smacking people
It's not rocket science  
JonC : 8/10/2015 8:45 am : link
see 81GD's post.
RE: Giants will  
Lithium : 8/10/2015 9:01 am : link
In comment 12410158 area junc said:
Quote:
find something about O-Line today
pugh going against geno atkins who is dominating their camp and the bengals having a stauch front 7
their rookie linebacker paul dawson has been smacking people


I assume the QB is off limits. Otherwise, Manning will be taken off in a stretcher.
Giants transactions since Beatty injury  
Archer : 8/10/2015 9:24 am : link
Quote:
08/07/2015 Brad Harrah (DE) - Waived/injury settlement
08/07/2015 Chris Harper (WR) - Waived/injured
08/07/2015 Ben Edwards (WR) - Waived/injury settlement
08/07/2015 Justin Halley (S) - Signed
08/02/2015 Derrick Johnson (WR) - signed
08/02/2015 Brad Bars (DE) - signed
08/01/2015 Matt LaCosse (TE) - Waived/Injured
08/01/2015 Brad Harrah (DE) - Waived/injured
07/31/2015 James Jones (WR) - signed as free agent
07/31/2015 Troy Kropog (T) - Terminated from Reserve/PUP:
07/31/2015 Ben Edwards (WR) - Waived/Injured
07/31/2015 William Beatty (T) - Placed on Active/PUP:

Since Beatty's injury the Giants have dropped Kropog, for a net loss of (2) offensive linemen. They have not brought in one linemen to replace Kropog or Beatty.
However, the Giants have picked up the following (4) players James Jones WR), Brad Bars (DE),Justin Halley (S) and Derrick Johnson (WR).
It appears that the Giants could have brought in offensive linemen for competition. I just hope that Reese is not so invested in Newhouse, Mosely, and Jerry,that it would preclude him creating competition. These players are backup players that should not be starting.
RE: in fact  
B in ALB : 8/10/2015 10:17 am : link
In comment 12410026 SirYesSir said:
Quote:
Schwartz played RT last year (for our current OC) when he came back in November. But my bad, we would never think of playing him there...
lonk - ( New Window )


He's played a total of 8 games at T in his career - since 2008. 8.

He's not a Tackle - especially with the wear and tear on his body and injury history. Keep him inside where he excels at run blocking. That's his strength.
This may have been mentioned  
djm : 8/10/2015 11:01 am : link
But if the Giants wait until week 1 of the season to sign a guy the contract isn't fully guaranteed for the season, or something like that. In other words the Giants likely wait to sign a guy so they can save money. Plus, they are looking at their own guys still and may not even need to sign a jake long.

It's still early.
RE: RE: in fact  
Victor in CT : 8/10/2015 12:10 pm : link
In comment 12410298 B in ALB said:
Quote:
In comment 12410026 SirYesSir said:


Quote:


Schwartz played RT last year (for our current OC) when he came back in November. But my bad, we would never think of playing him there...
lonk - ( New Window )



He's played a total of 8 games at T in his career - since 2008. 8.

He's not a Tackle - especially with the wear and tear on his body and injury history. Keep him inside where he excels at run blocking. That's his strength.


Thank you. Enough with the "Schwartz can do it" crap. Schwartz can't do shit until he proves otherwise. He's started 9 games since 2011.
RE: What makes more logical sense?  
Jersey55 : 8/10/2015 5:19 pm : link
In comment 12409896 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
They are just refusing to do anything, or there's nobody good that's readily available?

Long is coming off major surgery (and the irony is he'd probably have to be managed just like any other injured player i.e. Schwartz)

Mathis is 34 years old and wants serious money

These sounds like fantastic options.


Long already passed his physical with us, so thats not the reason he isn't here, I'm thinking the real reason is MONEY.....
It would be baffling if they did something  
The Tempest : 8/10/2015 5:37 pm : link
Historically they don't panic even when the house is on fire. Fire will just burn itself out and they can build on top of the burnt out remains.

I understand they want to give players currently on the roster the opportunity to compete for a position and Coughlin has said as much over the years that players are not just competing with each other but every player in the NFL.

I have a hard time believing at this point we have the best players available for the offensive line. It is going to be harder to pick up a player during the season especially for the offensive line.
RE: It would be baffling if they did something  
Dave in Hoboken : 8/10/2015 5:41 pm : link
In comment 12411207 The Tempest said:
Quote:
Historically they don't panic even when the house is on fire. Fire will just burn itself out and they can build on top of the burnt out remains.

I understand they want to give players currently on the roster the opportunity to compete for a position and Coughlin has said as much over the years that players are not just competing with each other but every player in the NFL.

I have a hard time believing at this point we have the best players available for the offensive line. It is going to be harder to pick up a player during the season especially for the offensive line.


Stop throwing a tantrum and acting like a child, plz...or something.
Sometimes when a coach  
B in ALB : 8/10/2015 5:45 pm : link
brings in someone new it can elevate the play of the current players and bring their game to an entirely new level. The competition that is created - and more aptly, the unease and uncomfortability that spurs the unit on - cannot be measured in dollars and cents.

Bring in another guy - the current guys know - someone is on their way out.

Seems to me this unit could use an influx of not only talent - but someone who can shake the collective comfort up a bit.
.....  
BrettNYG10 : 8/10/2015 6:05 pm : link
I think part of the reason for not wanting to sign someone like Mathis is because they have a longer term vision of the OL, and are focused on forming continuity and development. The Giants tend not to think and operate short term - despite Mara's tough words last season, they won't impair long term development for a one or two year boost.
Brett  
B in ALB : 8/10/2015 6:13 pm : link
That's a tough proposition when your head coach is on the way out if they go 6-10 or 7-9 and miss the playoffs again.
.....  
BrettNYG10 : 8/10/2015 6:38 pm : link
I think TC keeps his job if there's continued progress - an 8 or 9 win season probably keeps him around. Is Mathis worth 2 wins?

I think the team thinks it's made sufficient investment in the line, and it's contingent upon the young guys developing. The team is probably at the point where it thinks another bad OL is an indictment on the coaching staff this time around.
I'm not specifically referring to Mathis  
B in ALB : 8/10/2015 6:58 pm : link
but there is a sentiment out there among fans and the media that the Giants did not do enough to address the OL situation via FA.

I mean - when you look at that depth chart just released today I don't see a ton of talent there. And they're already dealing with missing the LT and plugging in a very green, young rookie. While at the same time moving their RT to G and their LG to OC. Kicking out the guy who played RG in favor of a guy with injury issues. Plus, inserting an entirely new and unproven RT.

That's a crazy amount of movement. So apparently the staff feels that it can make up through creating cohesion what it lost or lacks in talent? Without going out and making a FA signing other than a guy from Canada? Not sure i buy into that. But we'll see. Soon enough.

IT was bad enough to draft an OL with their first pick. I'm hesitant to believe that solves the issues given the talent already in house.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 8/10/2015 7:29 pm : link
I think the thinking was Beatty-Pugh-Richburg-Schwartz-Flowers was a good OL that they could build on, with the interior staying the same and Flowers eventually kicking over to LT in the coming years. Three recently drafted guys picked in the top 45, a highly sought after FA, and an average LT. I think the investment is there. But that doesn't mean it'll succeed.

I would have preferred another FA lineman. I'd be fine with Long, if healthy. My issue, even prior to Beatty getting hurt, was their reliance on guys who seem injury prone.
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