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| "Listen, this comes from a place of pride," O'Hara said. "This comes from a place where I want to see this unit be the strength of this offense. So that's where this all comes from. "It's an opportunity for the Giants to have a phenomenal season; offensively they have some unbelievably explosive weapons. The offensive line, frankly, they've been holding this team back for the last couple of years; they've been hurt, they've been banged up, there are a million excuses." |
Don't think it's going to work, but what the hell.
The team is soft and needs a tougher identity.
The team is soft and needs a tougher identity.
Sheesh, they're right, you are indeed an awful poster..
Hopefully comfortably and healthily
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Is saying what a lot of fans on this board have been saying the last few weeks. The fans on this board are met with the constant "it's the first week of camp" bullshit.
The team is soft and needs a tougher identity.
Sheesh, they're right, you are indeed an awful poster..
Never mind logic let's all panic and spray the site with bullshit. I know I'm wasting my breath but can we maybe get a couple of pre season games under our belt before the meltdown begins? Maybe?
Best guess is in your mom's basement after jerking off to Internet porn, or 69ing with another poster, maybe Lithium?
O'Hara said losing practice time to injury makes it mighty difficult for an offensive line to jel as a cohesive unit.
"I was frustrated to see that many guys missing practice, because it's so hard to get a unit to come together and to get that chemistry if they're over there riding the bike, and if they're standing over there watching practice," O'Hara said. "Mental reps are great but you have to be next to each other. You have to bump shoulders, you have to step on each other's feet, you have to be in there."
Again, quite a scoop there
How do you know the message was received? And in what way do you anticipate the offensive linemen's performance will be impacted by having received this message?
I don't mean to run him down, but he's a player. It's his job to want to play every minute. I'm also not pushing or applying pressure on guys to play while coming back from injury.
Practice is important, but so is being available. What good is Flowers' practice reps if he doesn't manage his injury properly and then damages his hip again, and then really misses time. As many first-round picks as the Giants have lost early to career-ending injuries, you want to take your chances with a guy who needs to be anchoring the line for 10 years?
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Is saying what a lot of fans on this board have been saying the last few weeks. The fans on this board are met with the constant "it's the first week of camp" bullshit.
The team is soft and needs a tougher identity.
Sheesh, they're right, you are indeed an awful poster..
If he's an awful poster than O'Hara must be awful Giant. The Giants used to have players emerge out of nowhere due to hard work and the fear of being unemployed. The Rich Seubert's, O'Hara's, Diehl's earned their way into the lineup. Those football warriors have been replaced by too many guys, like James Brewer, who are handed opportunities and do nothing. The guy was quoted the other day regarding his Giants experience "is the NFL for me"?
Does anybody emerge to create an identity on this OL? They barely practice and it appears nobody steps up and takes a job from a starter. Where is the guy to step up and take Schwartz's place? Nobody steps up.
I don't mean to run him down, but he's a player. It's his job to want to play every minute. I'm also not pushing or applying pressure on guys to play while coming back from injury.
Practice is important, but so is being available. What good is Flowers' practice reps if he doesn't manage his injury properly and then damages his hip again, and then really misses time. As many first-round picks as the Giants have lost early to career-ending injuries, you want to take your chances with a guy who needs to be anchoring the line for 10 years?
Iirc, many on here were not happy that TC inserted a less than fit O'Hara for Boothe who seemed to be doing a good job and the OL as a whole did rather well..
Was funny and probably true tho.
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In comment 12411797 Old Dirty Beckham said:
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Is saying what a lot of fans on this board have been saying the last few weeks. The fans on this board are met with the constant "it's the first week of camp" bullshit.
The team is soft and needs a tougher identity.
Sheesh, they're right, you are indeed an awful poster..
If he's an awful poster than O'Hara must be awful Giant. The Giants used to have players emerge out of nowhere due to hard work and the fear of being unemployed. The Rich Seubert's, O'Hara's, Diehl's earned their way into the lineup. Those football warriors have been replaced by too many guys, like James Brewer, who are handed opportunities and do nothing. The guy was quoted the other day regarding his Giants experience "is the NFL for me"?
Does anybody emerge to create an identity on this OL? They barely practice and it appears nobody steps up and takes a job from a starter. Where is the guy to step up and take Schwartz's place? Nobody steps up.
Excellent deduction..Yeah O'Hara must have been an awful Giant if Old Beckum is one..You can't make shit like this up
I'm actually a season ticket holder. I actually sold tickets to a BBI member a week ago. So unless I spent all my money on those PSL's and tickets it's probably safe to assume that I don't live in my mother's basement. BTW, her house sits on a slab!
I'm actually a season ticket holder. I actually sold tickets to a BBI member a week ago. So unless I spent all my money on those PSL's and tickets it's probably safe to assume that I don't live in my mother's basement. BTW, her house sits on a slab!
ODB, my response to you was about the "only 1 week of practice bullshit" comment..It's not BS..It's fact..Conclusions one way or the other CANNOT be made off of 1 week of practice..If you're a long time fan, season ticket holder, you should know that by now, imo
What exactly makes me a douche?
We'll never know for sure but O'Hara is not some jerk off. He's around the team and has more insight than we do. In particular his "you know who I'm talking about" line seems to be a direct shot at Schwartz who has been on a bike his entire Giant career.
We'll never know for sure but O'Hara is not some jerk off. He's around the team and has more insight than we do. In particular his "you know who I'm talking about" line seems to be a direct shot at Schwartz who has been on a bike his entire Giant career.
Someone called him a jerkoff? Must have missed that..
Btw, take your medicine from Rob and move on..Many of us are STILL limping after the beatings he's inflicted on us..:)
As for Rob, I don't even know this guy. He doenst know me. There is literally nothing he could say to me that would make me bat an eye.
Excellent deduction..Yeah O'Hara must have been an awful Giant if Old Beckum is one..You can't make shit like this up
So he must be a poor poster b/c he recited what O'Hara said? You're correct, you can't make this stuff up.
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Excellent deduction..Yeah O'Hara must have been an awful Giant if Old Beckum is one..You can't make shit like this up
So he must be a poor poster b/c he recited what O'Hara said? You're correct, you can't make this stuff up.
Reading is fundamental..My comment to OBD pertained to his statement that many of us refer to the opinion that "it's only one week of practice bullshit" ...Had nothing to do with O'Hara
Richburg however, is a kid and missing practice because of knee tendonitis is kinda weak, IMO. Especially because he hasn't played center in over a year.
Richburg however, is a kid and missing practice because of knee tendonitis is kinda weak, IMO. Especially because he hasn't played center in over a year.
Have you ever had Knee Tendonitis? That's very painful, but can be managed..So now you want him to go out there and prove he's a man? Given the choice, if a guy is going to play with an injury such as this(he shouldn't imo), would you rather it be now or during the regular season? And if he goes out, compensates for the pain(antalgic gait) and injures another area because of it, how would you feel then?
Not sure many of us would disagree
They play it cautious and hold guys out and it means the players are soft and not "mean" or "nasty" enough.
Force them to gut it out the first couple weeks of camp, they aggravate their ailments and are forced to miss additional time and everyone kills the training staff for handling the injuries incorrectly.
Fans being fans, really.
It's also not wrong to point out the personnel decisions on the OL aren't paying great dividends either, which falls on Reese and the coaches.
They play it cautious and hold guys out and it means the players are soft and not "mean" or "nasty" enough.
Force them to gut it out the first couple weeks of camp, they aggravate their ailments and are forced to miss additional time and everyone kills the training staff for handling the injuries incorrectly.
Fans being fans, really.
Right - I'm obviously disappointed, particularly because Schwartz seems to be a bit behind (I don't think they anticipated him missing this much practice), but I won't be concerned for another month.
It's also not wrong to point out the personnel decisions on the OL aren't paying great dividends either, which falls on Reese and the coaches.
Jon, as to your first sentence, who doesn't know that? Who would disagree? It's a given..Not sure why he needs to harp on something we are all aware of..
O'hara is around the team and has more insight than we do. He's not the kind of guy to spew verbal vomit.
But what do I know? I'll get back to cleaning my mothers basement in the slab foundation of her home.
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He's old and coming off a surgically reconstructed foot. So it makes sense to ease up on practice.
Richburg however, is a kid and missing practice because of knee tendonitis is kinda weak, IMO. Especially because he hasn't played center in over a year.
Have you ever had Knee Tendonitis? That's very painful, but can be managed..So now you want him to go out there and prove he's a man? Given the choice, if a guy is going to play with an injury such as this(he shouldn't imo), would you rather it be now or during the regular season? And if he goes out, compensates for the pain(antalgic gait) and injures another area because of it, how would you feel then?
I'll defer to you, but I always thought tendonitis was not an injury, but something that could be managed. I believe that reps for Richburg are hugely important because, for all intents and purposes he is a rookie center in the NFL.
Apparently training camp reps are sacred now as opposed to the days when players would go straight to the bar in Pleasantville. It was no big deal for Taylor to hold out or Carson to walk off the field. And apparently, trying to get back on the field too early was a great idea for our rookie of the year who missed just about everything and a month of the season but then went on to dominate the NFL.
All of this stuff is overrated. It may not seem that way in the era of forums and social media but it still is. Players know it but they have to act otherwise. Players come off injury and sometimes play well the following week. The first goal of training camp is to NOT get injured. The rest is all secondary. I don't care if Schwartz misses the entire preseason as long as he is ready week one. For rookies, yes the reps are important. But perhaps having Flowers take double reps contributed to his injury.
It is a long, long season. There will be other injuries and whatever the league and team look like now, it is a good bet that things will be very different mid-season. Yes, depth is an issue on the oline and Newhouse is a concern. But talent is the issue there - not reps. Sometimes I think the coaching staff places too much emphasis on the later.
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but he's not wrong in the respect the OL as a whole needs to really pick up the performance a few notches, and they're running out of excuses as Eli gets older.
It's also not wrong to point out the personnel decisions on the OL aren't paying great dividends either, which falls on Reese and the coaches.
Jon, as to your first sentence, who doesn't know that? Who would disagree? It's a given..Not sure why he needs to harp on something we are all aware of..
It needs to sink in with the players .... let's see if it has an effect when games begin, but it's been MIA for a long time. There's words, and there's actions.
Respectfully, we've seen a split between fans giving the players a pass b/c camp just began while others are shocked that players who have missed significant time in the past are already out within 72 hours of camp beginning. S. Moss might get ridiculed for riding a stationary bike to begin camp years ago while a Schwartz might be given the benefit of doubt due to surgery while tweeting tough talk.
Bottom line, I don't know of any profession you can be at your best without practice and repetition. With limited practices and only six weeks until opening day indicates a player missing a week is equal to missing 17% of the preseason repetitions. That number increases dramatically each week and I'm wondering if anybody can step up an win a job from anybody not working.
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In comment 12411984 JonC said:
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but he's not wrong in the respect the OL as a whole needs to really pick up the performance a few notches, and they're running out of excuses as Eli gets older.
It's also not wrong to point out the personnel decisions on the OL aren't paying great dividends either, which falls on Reese and the coaches.
Jon, as to your first sentence, who doesn't know that? Who would disagree? It's a given..Not sure why he needs to harp on something we are all aware of..
It needs to sink in with the players .... let's see if it has an effect when games begin, but it's been MIA for a long time. There's words, and there's actions.
I guess Jon, the first thing that popped into my mind about respected players being listened to, was the halftime pep talks from an LT, a Carson, a Banks et al which, as you know, were quite productive..:)
The rehab video attached was from 4 months ago in which he seemed to be well on his way. Unless the doctors are being overly conservative, if he hasn't progressed to the point in 4 months where he can endure a couple of contact practices, I'm struggling to see how there's any expectation that he can endure a full season after another 3-4 weeks of limitations. Just doesn't add up.
http://www.giants.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Inside-OL-Geoff-Schwartzs-road-to-return/cdb67cfc-533c-4d25-942a-8d4fc281c427
This I agree with. However, Pugh, Flowers, Richburg, Schwartz, these guys have basically never played together as a full unit. Let's give it a few weeks eh?
(1) the OLs ability to stay remotely healthy
(2) the OLs ability to improve from a "unit" and cohesion standpoint
(3) individual OLs ability to improve from a technique standpoint
The problem is that if you don't have #1 - the other two are near impossible to reach.
So there's the fine line - (a) do you keep guys out to fully heal up and hope there is enough time for the line to gel once everyone is lined up?
Or (b) do you demand a bit more "toughness" (whatever that means) during the first week of camp in order for the line to gel but risk longer term injury by not allowing the player to heal properly.
I hate to say it but there has to be a combination of both (a) and (b). Give the player time to heal and get proper treatment (this is key - much of this is up to the player) but when he's cleared he'd better produce. It looks like this is the tact that the FO and coaches are taking "at this point".
I say that meaning that at some point players are going to run into a wall and that nagging injury is something that will have to be managed differently during the season.
It wouldn't surprise me that O'hara is running these quotes out to the media at TC's or JR's request just to put a different voice in the room - get the guys thinking a bit differently. We all know that the message hasn't changed much in the past three years. Now you're getting a bit called out by a beloved vet who won a ton of games and gutted his way through some injuries. I can see that strategy getting into the heads of some of these guys.
Let the people who are injured rest. If it is borderline - rest. Toughing it out makes for good forum headlines. Not for great teams.
Perhaps but not necessarily..We don't know how much of camp and pre-season will be lost to injury and hence continuity..Even if all systems go, it still might take more than 2 weeks to start to see results..I think the threat of Vereen and a Cruz return will help mitigate the growing pains of the OL for awhile..At least that's the hope
Don't think it's going to work, but what the hell.
Haha... /end thread
LOL, I also think O'Hara is just trying to boost his career off this since he is now on WFAN for like third time this week talking about it. Wasn't he the guy who took exception to how Tiki tried to boost his media career. Mission is a success.
I don't see how that's good. Toughing it out just to suck in live action does what? Nobody cares how tough you are if you can't hold down your position. It's great to have a work ethic, but work ethic doesn't keep the QB upright.
The medical staff held out Flowers and Richburg for a maintenance day. Why? because it's week one of camp and it's the smart move. Deriding players toughness in this situation is counter productive.
B in ALB you're whole conspiracy theory of the organization using O'Hara as an unofficial spokesman to 'deliver a message' is one of the dumbest things I've ever read on BBI. That's saying a lot.
We all respect O'Hara's contributions as a player. There is a difference between gutting it out through minor injuries on game day when it's real and forcing the issue early in camp. Why risk making a minor issue worse? makes no sense.
The problem is not with the players. The problem is that the teams are so afraid of being sued by the player because he was forced to practice with an injury that they hold them out until the player is 100%. It's the litigious society that we live in now. If something bad happens it's always somebody else's fault and they will be sued.
The medical staff held out Flowers and Richburg for a maintenance day. Why? because it's week one of camp and it's the smart move. Deriding players toughness in this situation is counter productive.
B in ALB you're whole conspiracy theory of the organization using O'Hara as an unofficial spokesman to 'deliver a message' is one of the dumbest things I've ever read on BBI. That's saying a lot.
We all respect O'Hara's contributions as a player. There is a difference between gutting it out through minor injuries on game day when it's real and forcing the issue early in camp. Why risk making a minor issue worse? makes no sense.
It's not a conspiracy theory, you dope. Teams do this all the time. You obviously don't pay attention.
I'm not saying this is the same thing, but these guys typically do not sit out for the fun of it. Something is wrong and they are told by the trainers to sit out. Most players would do anything to get out on the field.
You think Schwartz is thrilled that he cannot practice right now as he fights for a starting spot on the line?
I like O'Hara and it's clear to me he is doing this as a a motivational technique, but I don't criticize a guy for being injured.
How can you say they failed to address the unit when they spent 2 number ones and a number two in the past three years?
Some of you people were fed paint chips as children
You have a point for sure based on past experience. However, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a hint or mention along these lines and O'hara went with it. Who knows. What we do know is that something needs to change for these guys and quickly.
So now they have a real mess on their hands. Too many hurt guys, too little quality depth.
The OL, not the defense or Special Teams, will make or break this team this season. And things have not started at all well.
I would think that O'Hara has established enough respect that the players are not going to just completely ignore him.
Either way, I don't see how his comments can hurt the team.
Says the guy who wants to trade trade Beckham for Martin...
Plus, he retired before the new CBA, which has further reduced contact in practices and overall practice time. Pre-season & training camp has become survival and getting to week 1 healthy, more than anything else
But Jon - I was told by some Mouthbreather above that that doesn't happen. It's a conspiracy!
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Sticks. O,Harar should have grabbed Reese by the neck and screamed in his face to wake up already',,,,wtf are you doing? Everyone knows it but the guy running the show.
Says the guy who wants to trade trade Beckham for Martin...
That's correct and I'll stand by that statement forever. Most of you think bling and fancy moves win in the NFL. By the e d of this season perhaps it will get through you thick skulls.
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and the brass does use former players and/or the media to deliver messages in some form, be it in-house or out.
But Jon - I was told by some Mouthbreather above that that doesn't happen. It's a conspiracy!
Lol, raever's actually a knowledgeable football poster, was a bit surprised he posted that in your direction.
Right now, Collins isn't even their starting LG. But...um...what's going to happen to Tyron Smith? You know, their All-Pro LT who signed an eight-year, $109 million contract last year?
Hell the Seahawks who run the ball mroe than anyone traded their all pro center for Jimmy Graham...
You think the Seahawks would not love to have Beckham on their team?...
So yes give me the shiny WR who gets 1600 yards and 15 TDs and 100 Catches...
Coming out of left field and bringing the stupid with extreme prejudice
ahhh now it makes sense
The problem is not with the players. The problem is that the teams are so afraid of being sued by the player because he was forced to practice with an injury that they hold them out until the player is 100%.
Does that happen?
And wouldn't it actually be someone else's fault if they forced you to do something with an injury and you in turn further aggravated that injury?
Takes time to get and offensive line in sync and it will happen, hopefully before the start of the season when it really counts.
Takes time to get and offensive line in sync and it will happen, hopefully before the start of the season when it really counts.
Nowhere in your post did you mention a big cause for not being in sync, namely injuries..Do you think that was just a minor factor in determining continuity?
If guys are injured they can't play. If they are hurt in early August it's reasonable to bring them along slowly and cautiously, especially in regards to a guy like Schwartz.
Nowhere in your post did you mention a big cause for not being in sync, namely injuries..Do you think that was just a minor factor in determining continuity?
I think it is a big factor. When it comes to injuries there are the injuries that keep you from practicing and then there are the injuries that keep you from playing. The injuries that kept these guys out of practice this week would not have kept them out of a game on sunday during the regular season. Have to approach training camp with that kind of mentality.
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Nowhere in your post did you mention a big cause for not being in sync, namely injuries..Do you think that was just a minor factor in determining continuity?
I think it is a big factor. When it comes to injuries there are the injuries that keep you from practicing and then there are the injuries that keep you from playing. The injuries that kept these guys out of practice this week would not have kept them out of a game on sunday during the regular season. Have to approach training camp with that kind of mentality.
Agreed