Rock: Jayron Hosley has turned corner in his career

Reese or one of the coaches said his struggles were confidence related. He could be this year's Corey Webster.

Coming from people we need to step up. Most notably Hosley and the D Line.

His path so far has been extremely rocky on the field. If he hadn't been a high draft pick he'd probably have been released already. Show me on Sundays or GTFO. This is his last chance.

That our D line will be similar to the Cowboys last year? Production from 7-8 guys and always fresh.

Wonder how long before he fails a drug test again?

and let go of your hatred for Hokies?

He excelled in college as a press corner in an attack style defense. We had a ton of square pegs under Perry Fewell.

He played really well in an aggressive man coverage scheme and sucked in Tom Lewis' bend don't break defense. Spags D fit him better.

In comment 12413280 David in LA said:

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Reese or one of the coaches said his struggles were confidence related. He could be this year's Corey Webster.

Jury is still out until we see it when the games count but Spags is giving a lot of the defense more confidence in camp

Impress during camp. What's the worst that can happen it's all smoke and nothing materializes? Fine we weren't expecting anything anyway. Maybe it's not all smoke...some guys take a while to figure themselves out...

players to step up.

But let's let him play in a game 1st

Not to be cynical.

He's still playing for his livelihood. Hosley is running out of chances.

the guy has been here going on 4 years, he's had EVERY opportunity to seize a spot and has been beaten out by guys we picked up off the street in mid-season. The corner he's turned is from Utterly Useless Street to One Last Chance Avenue.

He's small and not that quick or fast to compensate for lack of size and apparently too fucking stupid to play any kind of zone. This press corner stuff is horseshit. Anyone want to see him press Dez Bryant? Please.

In comment 12413290 Greg from LI said:

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Wonder how long before he fails a drug test again?

How about we root for players on the team to succeed instead of being negative.

but if he has actually turned the corner and plays well it would be a huge boost for the defense.

and maybe it's a little premature to talk about turning corners. Confidence is a pretty fragile thing, it can disappear in a hurry for someone with his history.

...

ridiculous to say he's turned a corner before playing but it's nice that there is some reason for optimism on player no one thought much of, let's hope he becomes a quality player. That is all

First, I hope Hosley makes the Pro Bowl. I have always liked his game, despite the disappointments. But to debunk a couple of myths: Fewell was not a Tampa 2 coordinator. Nor was he even a Cover 2 coach, which is the larger set of Tampa 2. He favored 3 deep, with 3 safeties for a Big Nickel look. When he had safeties, he tended to coach pretty well.

By comparison, Spagnuolo is much more a Cover 2 coach. He was fired by the Saints because he played way too much zone. Looking to this season, when you hear Beason say that Spagnuolo runs a complicated system that banks on making the opposition guess as to who is rushing the passer, what he is talking about are fire-zone blitzes, whereby the slot corner might rush, but a DE falls back into the flat zone. That defense has been copied, laid, replayed and parlayed. Everybody uses versions of it. As with any scheme, the most important determinant of success is the talent involved.

Coughlin said that Spagnuolo interned during a past summer with the great Urban Meyer to gain knowledge defending the read option. spreads and tempo. This is good. This is encouraging. Gruden said that you cannot play 2-deep against the Read because there are too many gaps to cover. So let's see what happens against the Eagles & Redskins. Dallas is different. They run what will be a frightening version of the Coryell Vertical. Spagnuolo's got his work cut out for him in the division.

One fair thing to be said is the defensive talent is better this season than last. The safeties are untested but, really, they could not be any worse than last year. Even when Beason gets hurt, JT Thomas will be an adequate replacement, as he was last season in Jacksonville. There is adequate C+ type depth on the D-Line. That is good, especially against tempo. But asking Spagnuolo to start off against Dallas is almost criminal. The Cowboys have added another great o-lineman in Collins. 6 TDs against in the opener could very easily happen. Should it, hold the fort and wait for things to turn around.

Lastly, the whole Read N React analysis of poor defenses is particularly dense. Poor defensive play lends an appearance of passivity because too many guys are getting their balls handed to them in their individual match-ups. They are slow to react. They commit penalties. That is why they suck. Scheme has its place, no question. But talent rules. There is no such animal as a high-performance, low-talent defense. I don't give a shit what the scheme is and who is coordinating it. Talent rules and lately Dallas has been getting the better players. And if you want to go the "too complicated" route remember this is going to be a very complicated defense in 15. So that shoots that cliche in the ass.

Do not bet against Coughlin. He is in the fourth year of the four-year cycle. They might just pull it off, if the team stays reasonably healthy, with a dynamite offense and an opportunistic defense that achieves despite long bouts of adversity by hanging together and getting to the ball in key intervals.

is a hopeful one but remember it wasn't until very late in '07 that Webster started playing well. Whatever magic Spags worked with Webster (if that was what happened) he'll have to do it a lot quicker with Hosley.

Would be a nice, unexpected help for this team. That said, I can't/won't believe it until I see it. Hope to see it this season.

In comment 12413290 Greg from LI said:

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Wonder how long before he fails a drug test again?

The B.S. Walks.

As always a pleasure to read, great informative post.

now that PF is gone a lot of our defensive players will be "turning the corner" to better play

He is not the 1st nor will be the last player to possibly have the light go on 4 years in.

The mere fact he is playing/practicing as the No 2 CB and we are not reading article after article of him being awful is a good sign

You are going to need 5-6 CB to play through the year. Having him as a capable player is good for the team

In comment 12413303 BigBlueDownTheShore said:

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He played really well in an aggressive man coverage scheme and sucked in Tom Lewis' bend don't break defense. Spags D fit him better.

I agree and was going to make a similar comment. Although Hosley's ability to play effectively at the pro level isn't yet established, I think he, and other defensive players (i.e., Moore), are going to benefit greatly from Spags' more aggressive schemes and focus on playing man more than zone.

In comment 12413566 grizz299 said:

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The B.S. Walks. As always a pleasure to read, great informative post.

No cool nicknames in this edition, but agree, a great read as usual. The getting-to-the ball thing is key, imho.

He seemed to have good cover skills - even as a rookie.

.

is for them to play with the lead. if we score and score quick a pressure oriented D can feast

In comment 12413566 grizz299 said:

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The B.S. Walks. As always a pleasure to read, great informative post.

Agreed. Great post. Really hope Hosley produces, for him and the team. I think he was stuck in a defense that didn't suit him, and now is in one that better fits his talents.

...aside from a lot of poor play in their first three seasons. Hosley's ceiling is probably as a feast-or-famine playmaker who does his best work facing the QB and using his excellent ball skills. He's more Tim Jennings than Corey Webster. Whether he benefits from Spagnuolo's arrival will largely be a function of whether the guys in front of him pressure the QB into mistakes. He's capable of capitalizing on those errors to change the complexion of a game. I think that's his main asset, though he seems to do pretty well jamming at the line for such a small corner.

In comment 12413507 RetroJint said:

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First, I hope Hosley makes the Pro Bowl. I have always liked his game, despite the disappointments. But to debunk a couple of myths: Fewell was not a Tampa 2 coordinator. Nor was he even a Cover 2 coach, which is the larger set of Tampa 2. He favored 3 deep, with 3 safeties for a Big Nickel look. When he had safeties, he tended to coach pretty well. By comparison, Spagnuolo is much more a Cover 2 coach. He was fired by the Saints because he played way too much zone. Looking to this season, when you hear Beason say that Spagnuolo runs a complicated system that banks on making the opposition guess as to who is rushing the passer, what he is talking about are fire-zone blitzes, whereby the slot corner might rush, but a DE falls back into the flat zone. That defense has been copied, laid, replayed and parlayed. Everybody uses versions of it. As with any scheme, the most important determinant of success is the talent involved. Coughlin said that Spagnuolo interned during a past summer with the great Urban Meyer to gain knowledge defending the read option. spreads and tempo. This is good. This is encouraging. Gruden said that you cannot play 2-deep against the Read because there are too many gaps to cover. So let's see what happens against the Eagles & Redskins. Dallas is different. They run what will be a frightening version of the Coryell Vertical. Spagnuolo's got his work cut out for him in the division. One fair thing to be said is the defensive talent is better this season than last. The safeties are untested but, really, they could not be any worse than last year. Even when Beason gets hurt, JT Thomas will be an adequate replacement, as he was last season in Jacksonville. There is adequate C+ type depth on the D-Line. That is good, especially against tempo. But asking Spagnuolo to start off against Dallas is almost criminal. The Cowboys have added another great o-lineman in Collins. 6 TDs against in the opener could very easily happen. Should it, hold the fort and wait for things to turn around. Lastly, the whole Read N React analysis of poor defenses is particularly dense. Poor defensive play lends an appearance of passivity because too many guys are getting their balls handed to them in their individual match-ups. They are slow to react. They commit penalties. That is why they suck. Scheme has its place, no question. But talent rules. There is no such animal as a high-performance, low-talent defense. I don't give a shit what the scheme is and who is coordinating it. Talent rules and lately Dallas has been getting the better players. And if you want to go the "too complicated" route remember this is going to be a very complicated defense in 15. So that shoots that cliche in the ass. Do not bet against Coughlin. He is in the fourth year of the four-year cycle. They might just pull it off, if the team stays reasonably healthy, with a dynamite offense and an opportunistic defense that achieves despite long bouts of adversity by hanging together and getting to the ball in key intervals.

Excellent post, RJ.

Wish more people on this board understood these things but all that seems to compute around here is "aggressive defense"

play a game I didn't know about?

Or is he wearing lifts now?

but lets not get carried away yet. And comparing 5'10" 179 JH to 6' 0" 200 lb Corey Webster is carried away.

Bingo!

<sigh>

Can't anybody see through this stuff? I hope he has "turned the corner" but I highly doubt it.

this guy is a future cut until he proves otherwise. There's no reason to be patient with him any more.

In comment 12413680 BeerFridge said:

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this guy is a future cut until he proves otherwise. There's no reason to be patient with him any more.

Agree

This seems to be coming from writers and coaches. So their talk is cheap? If not them, who is doing the cheap talk?

"I look at this as [turning over] a new leaf for me, understanding what I've been through and the ups and down of my career," he said. "It's a fight. It's a grind every day. I'm just trying to make the best of my opportunities."

From Barden on back, every camp this type of article comes out about someone. The road is littered with these "Moss" type guys, looking good in practice. I have my doubts but I have an open mind. He's had many years here, why now? Lets wait an see where he is on opening day, not where he is the first preseason game after injuries to others.

about how much more the personnel and behavior people associated with the Giants, know about players than we do and why they stick with them much longer than many of us would..

I know, I know, Sinorice Moss, there are always the failures, but my point still stands..

In comment 12413686 Headhunter said:

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This seems to be coming from writers and coaches. So their talk is cheap? If not them, who is doing the cheap talk?

Yeah, he's talking about himself. There's one non committal quote from TC in the article, that's it.

getting my hopes up on this guy based on a few good training camp practices. He's been either hurt or dreadful for the first 3 years. Let's see him play at a good level in a real game first before we start anointing him the comeback player of the year.

The one thing Hosley has in common with Webster is struggles with confidence. When Webster's confidence flagged, he tended to look completely lost and overmatched, the polar opposite version of the player he was at his best. Hosley's also struggled with his confidence, hopefully this is the beginning of getting it back.

In comment 12413727 ryanmkeane said:

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getting my hopes up on this guy based on a few good training camp practices. He's been either hurt or dreadful for the first 3 years. Let's see him play at a good level in a real game first before we start anointing him the comeback player of the year.

Why? BBI does it with almost everyone else from OTAs and minicamp on, why not now?

you get worked up when a player struggles in camp and ignore the players that are showing growth in camp. So basically it's a lose lose situation for all of us. Thanks!

a MUCH better player. Better tackler, better cover guy, bigger and more physical, better football IQ and better hands. I just don't see Hosley even being in the same league as Webster.

of career arc or pattern. I think thats all that is being said.

The Giants really need Hosley to not be a wasted pick.

In comment 12413737 djm said:

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you get worked up when a player struggles in camp and ignore the players that are showing growth in camp. So basically it's a lose lose situation for all of us. Thanks!

Far too often it's the BBI way.

In comment 12413737 djm said:

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you get worked up when a player struggles in camp and ignore the players that are showing growth in camp. So basically it's a lose lose situation for all of us. Thanks!

And this surprises you how? :)

I did say they had one thing in common, grin.

djm, perhaps you need a BBI break if posts are that frustrating for you. We all need an occasional break.

In comment 12413280 David in LA said:

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Reese or one of the coaches said his struggles were confidence related. He could be this year's Corey Webster.

I actually thought of that as well. Let's see though, how it unfolds, but I wouldn't be surprised if Spags brought out the best in yet another CB.

One of those great 'weed picks' that falls through the cracks, like Bradshaw did - Holsey was a highly ranked, extremely fast, quality corner - projected first rounder before he committed the crime of smoking the demon weed.

I thought he was a steal and have been greatly disappointed in what I thought would have been a starter by last season.

Hoping the article is true. For this team to succeed, we're going to need 3 or 4 'surprise' players. Webster, Boss, Cruz style surprises.

It all comes down to health, really. Too thin in too many areas to get away with many major injuries. That includes corner, big-time.

want certain players to fail so they can post here"See I was right!" like it means something to anyone other than them. Pick a player, hate the player, root for the player to fail. The fucking sages of BBi never disappoint. Rather than root for guys wearing Blue to succeed, they root for them to fail. In 5 years from when picked can say I was right about Sintim! Idiots

We'll see Jayron.

In comment 12413737 djm said:

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you get worked up when a player struggles in camp and ignore the players that are showing growth in camp. So basically it's a lose lose situation for all of us. Thanks!

I'm all for credit where credit is due, but how is he "showing growth." By saying a lot of the right things? It's not as if last year he said "I'm gonna give it about 80% this year." Of course he's saying all this.

Is it encouraging that Coughlin says he came to camp in great shape? Absolutely. But I don't feel any different about Hosley today than I did yesterday. We haven't even played 1 preseason game yet. He's a talented kid, but he was a 3rd round pick with 1st or 2nd round talent for a reason. So far he's been exactly what we drafted.

who roots against Giants from Virginia Tech. This has to be the sickest puppy on this board. The guy can't make a living but he is here all day letting you know how he feels about everything

combined with a dynamic roach clip

that getting a competent Defensive Coordinator in place would explain why everyone was underproducing?

we always had talent. frustrated talent

Yeah, clearly we know this for a fact before even playing 1 preseason game. It was all the coordinators fault. Jayron Hosley is now a legitimate NFL CB.

Oy vey...

I was merely pointing out that he could be a successful reclamation project much like Webster. Corey had confidence issues before he was thrust into action and then had the light go on. If you think I was comparing their skillset, you sir, are dumber than I gave you credit for.

In comment 12414192 David in LA said:

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I was merely pointing out that he could be a successful reclamation project much like Webster. Corey had confidence issues before he was thrust into action and then had the light go on. If you think I was comparing their skillset, you sir, are dumber than I gave you credit for.

A) My comments were not directed to your post specifically but to the many posts on the subject. Those with brains like JonC retorted with intelligence in the spirit of the conversation.

Secondly) Since you chose to insult me personally, GFY.

any other mention of Webster was never an apples to apples comp. You're by far one of the most obtuse posters on this board.

Thanks for the very informative post!

your stuff.

Cut Hosley a little slack. See if he can become a useful player. Root for him to succeed. We need better players on defense right now. Each guy must step up his game to win in 2015. The Cowboys had a weak D on paper last year but they came together and played rather well.

Spags' Giants can do it too.

In comment 12413861 Headhunter said:

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who roots against Giants from Virginia Tech. This has to be the sickest puppy on this board. The guy can't make a living but he is here all day letting you know how he feels about everything

It's so strange, like the Hokie bird must have inappropriately touched him as a young child. The blind hate is concerning.

Other than his taste (or lack there of) of collegiate programs, I for the most part agree w/ Greg on various topics. Oh and go Hokies! Go Giants.

In comment 12414336 Gmen703 said:

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In comment 12413861 Headhunter said: Quote: who roots against Giants from Virginia Tech. This has to be the sickest puppy on this board. The guy can't make a living but he is here all day letting you know how he feels about everything It's so strange, like the Hokie bird must have inappropriately touched him as a young child. The blind hate is concerning. Other than his taste (or lack there of) of collegiate programs, I for the most part agree w/ Greg on various topics. Oh and go Hokies! Go Giants.

Despite what he'd say when you asked him directly, he was clearly rooting against Wilson having success, too. Really, really weird.