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New York Giants-Cincinnati Bengals Post-Game Diiscussion

Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/14/2015 10:35 pm
Sucky game with even worse injury news.
Post mortem...  
Torrag : 8/14/2015 10:36 pm : link
Torrag : 10:34 pm : link : reply
The Good:
Special teams were good.

Wynn and Moore can get the edge.

Darkwa has instincts and burst.

The Mixed:
Jackson and Unga have juice but no clue what they are doing.

O2 flashed at times.

The Bad:
The O-line was a disaster. How Jerry is still in the league is a mystery to me.

Kuhn stinks. Pad level is awful. Gets no push. Ever. Plays like he is on skates. For the life of me I don't know what the coaching staff sees in this guy. Start Bromley or Ellis.

Only the first preseason game but there is plenty of work to do. If they are going to rely on McBride to play an important role they are in trouble. He has no durability. When Nassib is the toughest Giants on the field you have a problem.

What is there to say?  
Anakim : 8/14/2015 10:38 pm : link
Unless John Jerry is playing against Aaron Donald, he's useless

Newhouse sucked. Eric Herman blew. Adrien Robinson...HAHA.


The winner on offense was Darkwa and the winners on defense were Unga and Justin Currie, IMO. The first team units on both sides of the ball stunk.
OL sucks, linebackers suck, secondary depleted by injuries.  
bceagle05 : 8/14/2015 10:38 pm : link
Reggie LeDoux was right - time is a flat circle.
Vaunted WRs  
PEEJ : 8/14/2015 10:41 pm : link
didn't help. Talley was the best looking guy tonight in garbage time.
actually  
Andy in Boston : 8/14/2015 10:42 pm : link
hoping that the injuries aren't as bad as 1st appeared...Thompson appears done, which is unfortunate, but am hoping Collins injury isn't serious, and hopeful that Hosely concussion isn't bad.
Wade, Gordy, Hunt looked good at times  
D_Giants : 8/14/2015 10:42 pm : link
The Giants have some talent on this team. They have a lot of new players; this is a new team and perhaps through injuries some of these guys will get opportunities.
STs, overall,  
PEEJ : 8/14/2015 10:42 pm : link
were pretty good.
Landon Collins seems fine. No limp, no brace, no ice  
Anakim : 8/14/2015 10:42 pm : link
He's fine.
positives for tonight  
Andy in Boston : 8/14/2015 10:43 pm : link
The Giants did not turn the ball over.
The Giants 1st and 2nd team o-line did not allow a sack.
Darkwa and Wade had strong games.
Special Teams/coverage teams were solid.
the offense looked very plodding  
Vanzetti : 8/14/2015 10:44 pm : link
i know they stress being methodical to avoid making mistakes but i really think you need to be a bit more uptempo

RE: the offense looked very plodding  
Anakim : 8/14/2015 10:45 pm : link
In comment 12418877 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
i know they stress being methodical to avoid making mistakes but i really think you need to be a bit more uptempo


Hard to be uptempo when your O-Line has as many holes as a 20 year old pair of socks.
aggravating negatives  
Andy in Boston : 8/14/2015 10:46 pm : link
Nassib didn't play well.
Newhouse struggled.
too many dropped balls.
DE's lost contain on several occasions.
.  
Vin R : 8/14/2015 10:46 pm : link
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/14/2015 10:46 pm : link
Ebenezer Samuel ‏@ebenezersamuel 15s16 seconds ago Cincinnati, OH

Coughlin said there's "big concern" that Mykkele Thompson has indeed ruptured his Achilles.
I waited 8 months for Giants football for this?  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 8/14/2015 10:46 pm : link
joke's on me.
Pretty  
AcidTest : 8/14/2015 10:48 pm : link
bad, even acknowledging that it was just one game.

The OL looks overmatched, and has no continuity.

The simple truth is that there is no RT on this team. Newhouse is not the answer. Mosley can't beat him out. I assume that's why the Giants were playing Hart at RT during practice and tonight, even though Reese said after he was drafted that they wanted to move him to guard.

The RG situation is just as bad, unless Schwartz can suddenly get healthy. Jerry is not the answer.

Newhouse, Mosley, Jerry, Herman, Cleary, and Gettis offer nothing. Bamiro and Donnelly are too inexperienced. But some of these players will not only make the final 53, they'll be starting. Hart should make the final 53.

This is a real indictment of Reese, especially given all the first and second round picks and FA money he's used and spent on the OL the last few years. The entire right side of the OL is unknown. The team also has no depth.

Nothing from Kuhn or Robinson. Go with Hankins and Ellis, and keep Cunningham.

Injury bug decimates the safety position. Thompson and Berhe likely headed for IR.

Did like what I saw from Darkwa and Hunt.
Time for a scouting overhaul  
Jim Burt64 : 8/14/2015 10:48 pm : link
-Sorry Chris Mara,,, now u get the sandwiches.. Holy fuck, this guy IS playing Madden... for real

-Jerry needs to go - we need new blood & approach

Schwartz needs to nut up because we desperately need him  
Anakim : 8/14/2015 10:49 pm : link
And for the love of God, GET HEALTHY, JAKE LONG.
RE: I waited 8 months for Giants football for this?  
Hem Roid : 8/14/2015 10:50 pm : link
In comment 12418890 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
joke's on me.


Couldn't say it better ... Pathetic
Looking forward to seeing this.  
Emil : 8/14/2015 10:50 pm : link
Coughlin says he thinks they will have more chances to do things down the field in the coming weeks than they did tonight. I certainly hope so. Gotta protect Eli though
One other positive  
Matt in SGS : 8/14/2015 10:51 pm : link
Hunt really looks like the 2nd coming of Dave Meggett. He looks like he might end up being that quick hitter/matchup problem that the Giants haven't really had since Meggett.
RE: Schwartz needs to nut up because we desperately need him  
Emil : 8/14/2015 10:51 pm : link
In comment 12418899 Anakim said:
Quote:
And for the love of God, GET HEALTHY, JAKE LONG.


It is possible that 60% of Jake Long might be better than 100% of Marshall Newhouse
This game only  
Emil : 8/14/2015 10:52 pm : link
increased my fears about the right side of the OL. Hopefully Schwartz can get healthy. I liked what I saw out of Mosley much more than Newhouse. Newhouse just looks like a drive and QB killer.

I agree with those who think Kuhn is getting reps with the 1st team to answer once and for all if he has what it takes. Thus far, the answer is no.

Hopefully Collins is just banged up a little and will benefit from some rest. The safety position is not deep enough to handle losing him.

I liked what I saw of Wade, but not much else in the secondary left me feeling confident in anyone beyond Prince and DRC.

I think Jerry needs to open the Mara's wallet and bring in some more OL and DB depth. I'm not one to overreact to a preseason loss, much less the first game, but the less time spent figuring out the OL the better. This offense needs to be settled so it can gel and carry this team, because the defense will be a work in progress until the young players mature.
Teams  
AcidTest : 8/14/2015 10:53 pm : link
are going to get pressure with four or five, and drop everyone back into coverage. That will make it very difficult to throw, especially deep. Play action won't be effective. Most blitzes will also be successful, especially against an immobile QB like Eli. At least we're playing in a system that gets the ball out quickly.
Jim Burt  
Rory : 8/14/2015 10:53 pm : link
Preseason game 1 , now go away
As bad as the OL and WRs were tonight,  
Steve Filipowicz : 8/14/2015 10:53 pm : link
IMO the LBs were incredibly bad . I'm sure I'm wrong but I don't remember a LB making one tackle tonight.bengals backs ran outside with ease, with the DBs making first contact.
I liked  
NJGiantFan84 : 8/14/2015 10:53 pm : link
The screen pass to Williams. Didnt like too much else from the first team.

What we need to see is improvement. A lot of new faces on this team. Thats all we can really hope for.
RE: ...  
Emil : 8/14/2015 10:53 pm : link
In comment 12418888 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Ebenezer Samuel ‏@ebenezersamuel 15s16 seconds ago Cincinnati, OH

Coughlin said there's "big concern" that Mykkele Thompson has indeed ruptured his Achilles.


thats a tough injury, but he can come back from it. It will probably 6 months before he can really go out and run, and probably 3-6 months after that before he could be cleared for contact. Next years camp is a possibility.
.  
OBJ_AllDay : 8/14/2015 10:54 pm : link
I wasn't impressed with Damontre.
RE: One other positive  
Vanzetti : 8/14/2015 10:54 pm : link
In comment 12418903 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
Hunt really looks like the 2nd coming of Dave Meggett. He looks like he might end up being that quick hitter/matchup problem that the Giants haven't really had since Meggett.


Hunt went a long way to making the team tonight. Just don't fumble, kid. Or you're back to square one
RE: As bad as the OL and WRs were tonight,  
Emil : 8/14/2015 10:54 pm : link
In comment 12418912 Steve Filipowicz said:
Quote:
IMO the LBs were incredibly bad . I'm sure I'm wrong but I don't remember a LB making one tackle tonight.bengals backs ran outside with ease, with the DBs making first contact.


I think the stat line said Beason had 3.
Moore and Bennett were bright spots  
micky : 8/14/2015 10:54 pm : link
.
Hunt can't block  
DavidinBMNY : 8/14/2015 10:54 pm : link
Until he can he s a practice quad player. Has some burst.
RE: RE: One other positive  
Emil : 8/14/2015 10:55 pm : link
In comment 12418916 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
In comment 12418903 Matt in SGS said:


Quote:


Hunt really looks like the 2nd coming of Dave Meggett. He looks like he might end up being that quick hitter/matchup problem that the Giants haven't really had since Meggett.



Hunt went a long way to making the team tonight. Just don't fumble, kid. Or you're back to square one


I thought he played very well, but he is up against Darkwa, who also played very well. If only Hunt was a DB instead of a RB, he'd probably make the team.
Stupid question  
DavidinBMNY : 8/14/2015 10:55 pm : link
Why didn't they pass first play of game. What not use the pass to set up the run.
can evan mathis play right guard  
ADeP7 : 8/14/2015 10:56 pm : link
cause if so fucking sign him and move schwartz out to rt
Pretty obvious!  
Carl in CT : 8/14/2015 10:56 pm : link
Another long year coming. And pretty pissed!!!! Please stop the excuses!
RE: Moore and Bennett were bright spots  
Emil : 8/14/2015 10:57 pm : link
In comment 12418918 micky said:
Quote:
.


My bright spots were Currie and Wade. I missed DaMontre's big contributions. Not saying he didn't have a good night, I probably missed those snaps.
aggravating negatives  
Andy in Boston : 8/14/2015 10:57 pm : link
Nassib didn't play well.
Newhouse struggled.
too many dropped balls.
DE's lost contain on several occasions.
RE: can evan mathis play right guard  
Emil : 8/14/2015 10:57 pm : link
In comment 12418924 ADeP7 said:
Quote:
cause if so fucking sign him and move schwartz out to rt


It's a good thought. A really good one. Probably a very expensive one though.
Yuck  
DavidinBMNY : 8/14/2015 11:00 pm : link
Kuhn was worst on D. Washington on O. Parker did not impress. Fennel was awful on defense.

Please fix the online aleady.


Bromley, wade, jones, talley, darkwa looked good. Hunt and nassib ok. Liked what I saw from Ellis as well.

And pass first play next game.
.  
OBJ_AllDay : 8/14/2015 11:02 pm : link
unimpressive but a lot of you are acting like you never witnessed a preseason game... chill... we will put 30 up on dallas week 1
RE: One other positive  
dpinzow : 8/14/2015 11:06 pm : link
In comment 12418903 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
Hunt really looks like the 2nd coming of Dave Meggett. He looks like he might end up being that quick hitter/matchup problem that the Giants haven't really had since Meggett.


We have too many RBs and WRs but not enough linemen...no RT and a very weak RG
RE: can evan mathis play right guard  
dpinzow : 8/14/2015 11:07 pm : link
In comment 12418924 ADeP7 said:
Quote:
cause if so fucking sign him and move schwartz out to rt


Mathis' best position is LG so you'd put him there and move Pugh back to RT
RE: RE: Schwartz needs to nut up because we desperately need him  
Anakim : 8/14/2015 11:09 pm : link
In comment 12418904 Emil said:
Quote:
In comment 12418899 Anakim said:


Quote:


And for the love of God, GET HEALTHY, JAKE LONG.



It is possible that 60% of Jake Long might be better than 100% of Marshall Newhouse


This.
On the bright side  
DavidinBMNY : 8/14/2015 11:10 pm : link
We can snatch up guys cut from the bengals. Since practicing with them we know who is good. OL ?
I need to see our DEs set a better edge  
SwirlingEddie : 8/14/2015 11:12 pm : link
We got burned terribly last year outside the tackles and this game was no better. Hopefully the young guys learn from this.
RE: On the bright side  
Emil : 8/14/2015 11:14 pm : link
In comment 12418945 DavidinBMNY said:
Quote:
We can snatch up guys cut from the bengals. Since practicing with them we know who is good. OL ?


There OL is deep
RE: .  
Emil : 8/14/2015 11:16 pm : link
In comment 12418932 OBJ_AllDay said:
Quote:
unimpressive but a lot of you are acting like you never witnessed a preseason game... chill... we will put 30 up on dallas week 1


Yes we probably will, and OBJ will have two TDs, but the defense will give up 150 yds on the ground and we'll loose 33-30. And I'm an optimist.
RE: RE: On the bright side  
Emil : 8/14/2015 11:16 pm : link
In comment 12418950 Emil said:
Quote:
In comment 12418945 DavidinBMNY said:


Quote:


We can snatch up guys cut from the bengals. Since practicing with them we know who is good. OL ?



There OL is deep


Geez, their not there
I could only listen to the WFAN stream  
iMatt : 8/14/2015 11:24 pm : link
How did Flowers/Pugh/Richberg look? All indications were that the right side of the line was a shit show, living up to expectations...
Injuries, injuries  
bradshaw44 : 8/14/2015 11:26 pm : link
And more injuries. So sick of this shit. And if the OL sucks ass this year I'm finally ok with letting JR and TC go. I've been their biggest defenders but if you can't coach up your OL as a coach or find superb talent as a GM after 4 seasons then it's time to go.
Well reading through this thread just saved me 3 hours  
Giants4246 : 8/14/2015 11:33 pm : link
tomorrow morning watching the replay on NFL network. Sounds like ALOT of improvement is needed in all areas.
Jerry Reese was 2-3 drafts late  
Rich in L.A. : 8/14/2015 11:57 pm : link
in terms of addressing the OL, and now we are paying a heavy price for it.

By the way, we could have gotten two OL starters from last year's draft, but we went with Bromley in the 3rd over guys like Trai Turner. Passed over guys who will be starting guards for the next 7-10 years in this league. Yay?
This roster is diseased  
Joey in VA : 8/15/2015 12:01 am : link
Rotted, whatever you want to call it. This team is years away from hoping to contend. No OL, no OL depth, no TE, no TE depth, no DTs no DT depth, ditto for DE, LB, S, CB.

We have Odell, Hankins, Pugh, Richburg, Eli that we can definitely count on, beyond that?????.....not a hell of a lot. Yes yes it's preseason, but we weren't remotely competitive again. The Bengals are a much more talented and much deeper team top to bottom. Welcome to another top 10 pick Mr. Mara, Reese and Nice Guy Coughlin. Maybe it's time for old Tommy C to come back and kick some asses at practice. Something has to change, this team is still gutless.
Uh-oh  
speedywheels : 8/15/2015 12:12 am : link
Joey thinks the season is over. On to 2016!
I couldn't watch the "game'  
Blackbeard : 8/15/2015 12:25 am : link
From what I've just read I guess there's no point in watching the rest of the season.
RE: Uh-oh  
Joey in VA : 8/15/2015 12:30 am : link
In comment 12418986 speedywheels said:
Quote:
Joey thinks the season is over. On to 2016!
I was right last year assface, and you were wrong. Let's see how it plays out this year. I'm guessing that your inability to do anything other than play bitch and take pot shots will once again show how wrong you are and how right I am...again. I know this game and I know this team and I know talent and we don't have it. Didn't have it last year and your big fucking mouth disagreed with me. We went 6-10, so until you get something right, go play with the kids, you're not ready to talk to the men.
RE: Uh-oh  
Joey in VA : 8/15/2015 12:37 am : link
In comment 12418986 speedywheels said:
Quote:
Joey thinks the season is over. On to 2016!
Back to your hole to say nothing? Shocking, you fucking no nothing cowardly shitstain.
Its early but Reese needs to get some  
chris r : 8/15/2015 12:40 am : link
blame for wasting some of Eli's prime. His approach to fixing the OL has been to add one, two max potentially good player each year and a bunch of scrubs. So year by year the Giants are piecing together what will hopefully be a respectable OL and year by year the best QB's prime gets shorter.
First preseason game after about half a dozen practices...  
okiegiant : 8/15/2015 12:51 am : link
carry on.
No one wants to sit and admit it but you have a number of red flags  
Mason : 8/15/2015 12:54 am : link
and a lot of it has to do with coaching. I'm sorry but from depth chart structure to how these units handle responsibilities has not change while the players have. Middle is still open on defense. Players unaware to set the edge. Speedy QBs still get the best of them. On offense same old same old. Try to smash and run.

How in the flying fuck in what universe does a coach sit down and say, oh yeah Kuhn is our 3rd DT. He does nothing well. Rookies look confused and often out of position. Giants WRs seem to be the least physical group going. I can only assume that in their practices DBs aren't even allowed to get physical with these guys because in real game action they seem very fazed with contact within 10 yards.
It's  
SoZKillA : 8/15/2015 12:55 am : link
Time to reach out to either Mathis or Long. Stop being cheap and sign one of them, no more pussy footing.

You can't tell me Long is worse than Newhouse. For the life of me I can't stand to watch him and Jerry on the right side of that line, they're going to get someone hurt. Something has to be done.
RE: Stupid question  
Mason : 8/15/2015 12:55 am : link
In comment 12418922 DavidinBMNY said:
Quote:
Why didn't they pass first play of game. What not use the pass to set up the run.


I was very confused with the play calling too. Even some of the stuff that Eli audible into was head scratchers.
Outside of Orleans Darkwa & a kickoff return, I pretty  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 8/15/2015 1:11 am : link
much hated everything I saw tonight. Well, there were a few nice blitzes, but teams don't prepare for blitz pickup week 1 of the preseason. So even that is tainted.

I'm perfectly fine threatening Geoff Schwartz' life if he doesn't start to earn some of the money he's getting paid... see John Jerry? You're going to get someone killed. Newhouse is a mess. The happiest man in America has to be Jake Long's agent.

Kuhn was horrendous. The LBs stunk. The safeties don't have a drop of experience among them.

with injuries an ongoing concern  
RasputinPrime : 8/15/2015 1:45 am : link
i'd rather the NFL put safety first and force all players to sleep in hyperbolic chambers while in cryo-sleep during the offseason. This way they can be in tip top shape for the remaining 50 weeks of the season they are expected to perform.

I hate preseason.
RE: RE: Stupid question  
OBJ_AllDay : 8/15/2015 1:45 am : link
In comment 12419004 Mason said:
Quote:
In comment 12418922 DavidinBMNY said:


Quote:


Why didn't they pass first play of game. What not use the pass to set up the run.



I was very confused with the play calling too. Even some of the stuff that Eli audible into was head scratchers.


Don't look into it too much. Didn't we run 2-3 straight screens to Jennings to open the preseason last year? It was like the same play 3 times in a row
Look folks,  
giantgiantfan : 8/15/2015 3:24 am : link
it was bad. However, the bright side is they could improve between now and game 2.
Jordan Raanan 3 stars of the game  
Headhunter : 8/15/2015 6:13 am : link
number 2 combo DT Ellis & Bromley active putting on pressure, in the backfield the whole game
Think Joey is overly pessimistic  
bc4life : 8/15/2015 6:33 am : link
But, based on last night, this team has some serious issues.

Th one that concerns me most is the OL. Jerry and Newhouse were a disaster. And, there does not appear to be anyone on the depth chart to fix it. If and when Schwartz gets in - his health seems very fragile. All the weapons in the world won't help if the OLine is porous.

RE: DL - Kuhn is not a starter, but I think Ellis may be an upgrade. I'd rather start Jenkins over Kuhn. And, he is not a starter at this point. He's also not a DE.

The LBs - Could be wrong, but Beason just not appear to move like he used to. Not the same guy. RE: the rest - DL has to improve to get a better sense.

Secondary - nt sure what we have back there yet. It is troubling that Prince is hurt yet again.
Schwartz?  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 8/15/2015 7:24 am : link
Anyone counting on Schwartz to contribute anything this year -- or any year -- is not paying attention. He is a stiff who is happy collecting a very large, undeserved paycheck. He was a decent RG for one year. Now he's a cold-tub fixture.
RE: Schwartz?  
Rickets : 8/15/2015 7:27 am : link
In comment 12419042 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:
Quote:
Anyone counting on Schwartz to contribute anything this year -- or any year -- is not paying attention. He is a stiff who is happy collecting a very large, undeserved paycheck. He was a decent RG for one year. Now he's a cold-tub fixture.


He's happy to be on Twitter.

At this point, I don't expect to come away from a game without a minimum of 3 injuries.
The excitement has worn off after one game?  
Doomster : 8/15/2015 8:26 am : link
The LBs - Could be wrong, but Beason just not appear to move like he used to. Not the same guy.



Must be the new shoe.....when someone mentioned he had to learn to run in that new shoe again, I thought, WTF?

This is a good sign....the Giants were 5-0 last year.....how did that work out?

Let's face it, there is a lot of work to be done.......when we re-signed Jerry, after the way he performed last year, it should have been a red flag.....guys wanting Mathis and Long, be careful what you wish for...there really isn't anything out there.....the waiver wire will be this team's only salvation....we can make moves to create cap room, but there really isn't anything out there...any trade, and with the Giants in desperation mode, will not get the better of the deal......

Funny thing is, this front office threw all it's eggs in the JPP basket, and neglected the OL.....yes, it is the first game of the preseason.....but another season below .500, and who knows what will happen? TC's legacy.....maybe Eli doesn't want to sign an extension? Reese can't hide behind injuries forever.....
RE: The excitement has worn off after one game?  
Klaatu : 8/15/2015 8:38 am : link
In comment 12419073 Doomster said:
Quote:

Let's face it, there is a lot of work to be done.......when we re-signed Jerry, after the way he performed last year, it should have been a red flag.....guys wanting Mathis and Long, be careful what you wish for...there really isn't anything out there.....the waiver wire will be this team's only salvation....we can make moves to create cap room, but there really isn't anything out there...any trade, and with the Giants in desperation mode, will not get the better of the deal......

Funny thing is, this front office threw all it's eggs in the JPP basket, and neglected the OL.....yes, it is the first game of the preseason.....but another season below .500, and who knows what will happen? TC's legacy.....maybe Eli doesn't want to sign an extension? Reese can't hide behind injuries forever.....


Jerry wasn't signed to start, and neither was Newhouse.

Regardless, Beatty got hurt on May 20. What OL would you have signed after that? Who was available? It has nothing to do with the JPP situation. It has to do with a guy like Joe Barksdale, with all of his faults, signing with a new team on May 19.
A lot of BBIers write that it was only the 1st game  
Steve Filipowicz : 8/15/2015 8:41 am : link
OK, but it was the 1st game for the Bengals and they looked light years ahead of the Giants, especially Dalton slicing and dicing the D.
I'm sick of people  
Rickets : 8/15/2015 8:48 am : link
trying to spin the "it's not time to panic yet." Panic time for this organization was 2 years ago. What we witnessed in this game, 1st preseason game or not, is a continuation of the same shit year after year. It's like a replay of the same mistakes by the same people and in cases new people. Something is rotten. This team has the look of a 4-6 win team. I'm sure Mara will be incensed and then do nothing.
.....  
CoughlinHandsonHips : 8/15/2015 8:49 am : link
Where was Ellis on the depth chart? I think he was in against 3rd teamers and not doing much?
RE: A lot of BBIers write that it was only the 1st game  
Giants4246 : 8/15/2015 8:51 am : link
In comment 12419089 Steve Filipowicz said:
Quote:
OK, but it was the 1st game for the Bengals and they looked light years ahead of the Giants, especially Dalton slicing and dicing the D.


I don't think there's a QB that hasn't sliced and diced the giants D the past few years. It's fucking maddening.
Seems to me for the last  
Headhunter : 8/15/2015 9:02 am : link
Few seasons they come out for the first preseason game like they met in the parking lot before kickoff for the first time. There are issues that have to be addressed quickly. Unfortunately most of the issues are with the first team offense and defense. To me there looked like 2nd teamers on the Oline that can replace the right side starters. Pass defense in the middle makes me afraid to watch the opener in Dallas, stays like this 3 and 9 is a gimme for the Cowboys. I saw a lot of good things, but got to fix the bad fast. If they can't fix it, going to be painful to watch
Tried watching this morning  
Beer Man : 8/15/2015 9:18 am : link
had to turn it off. I think pathetic sums it up. Three years of this crap is enough. The line still cant block and the D still cant stop the run. The two most fundamental elements of the game, and they suck at both.
I'm not going to lie, I am worried about the defense.  
arcarsenal : 8/15/2015 9:36 am : link
Fewell had his warts but I felt the personnel was the bigger issue and I have a feeling Spags is going to get turned on pretty quickly around here for the same reason. It won't be his fault, either.

The linebacking unit is just really underwhelming. Kennard is the one guy I have high hopes for. I like Beason a lot, but you never know with him.

The safety depth is bad.. beyond Prince and DRC, the CB depth is very questionable. We're already down JPP for who knows how long.

He's going to have his work cut out for him with this unit because it just isn't good enough to consistently win 1 on 1's and get by on talent alone.
RE: RE: The excitement has worn off after one game?  
jingle_jangle : 8/15/2015 9:50 am : link
In comment 12419085 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 12419073 Doomster said:


Quote:



Let's face it, there is a lot of work to be done.......when we re-signed Jerry, after the way he performed last year, it should have been a red flag.....guys wanting Mathis and Long, be careful what you wish for...there really isn't anything out there.....the waiver wire will be this team's only salvation....we can make moves to create cap room, but there really isn't anything out there...any trade, and with the Giants in desperation mode, will not get the better of the deal......

Funny thing is, this front office threw all it's eggs in the JPP basket, and neglected the OL.....yes, it is the first game of the preseason.....but another season below .500, and who knows what will happen? TC's legacy.....maybe Eli doesn't want to sign an extension? Reese can't hide behind injuries forever.....



Jerry wasn't signed to start, and neither was Newhouse.

Regardless, Beatty got hurt on May 20. What OL would you have signed after that? Who was available? It has nothing to do with the JPP situation. It has to do with a guy like Joe Barksdale, with all of his faults, signing with a new team on May 19.
such a dumb comment. How about the last three years having capable depth? His tenure didnt beging may 20th.
Well  
jtfuoco : 8/15/2015 9:53 am : link
after watching the game a second time this morning. I hate to admit it but I have to agree with Joey about this team. A lot of the issues with team could be solved in the following weeks but I doubt they will with the current setup of how training camp can be conducted with the new NFLPA rules. It makes me wonder if this coaching staff is not able to adapt with the changes.
After watching 5 preseason games this week the Giants look by far the worse and its not even close. I don't care if it is just week one something is wrong with this team. The question is what it? talent? coaching?
RE: RE: RE: The excitement has worn off after one game?  
Klaatu : 8/15/2015 10:19 am : link
In comment 12419178 jingle_jangle said:
Quote:
In comment 12419085 Klaatu said:


Quote:


In comment 12419073 Doomster said:


Quote:



Let's face it, there is a lot of work to be done.......when we re-signed Jerry, after the way he performed last year, it should have been a red flag.....guys wanting Mathis and Long, be careful what you wish for...there really isn't anything out there.....the waiver wire will be this team's only salvation....we can make moves to create cap room, but there really isn't anything out there...any trade, and with the Giants in desperation mode, will not get the better of the deal......

Funny thing is, this front office threw all it's eggs in the JPP basket, and neglected the OL.....yes, it is the first game of the preseason.....but another season below .500, and who knows what will happen? TC's legacy.....maybe Eli doesn't want to sign an extension? Reese can't hide behind injuries forever.....



Jerry wasn't signed to start, and neither was Newhouse.

Regardless, Beatty got hurt on May 20. What OL would you have signed after that? Who was available? It has nothing to do with the JPP situation. It has to do with a guy like Joe Barksdale, with all of his faults, signing with a new team on May 19.

such a dumb comment. How about the last three years having capable depth? His tenure didnt beging may 20th.


Define "capable depth" and give me some examples of teams that can lose starting O-Linemen and not miss a beat.

I guess the reason that the Giants are playing  
Steve Filipowicz : 8/15/2015 10:30 am : link
Mosley at RT is that Pugh is playing LG and the expectation is that Schwartz will play RG.

But, Mosley, when healthy, is an OK RG and better than Jerry.

The point I'm driving at is to play Mosley at RG and thus have better play at RG, keep Newhouse at RT until Schwartz can play, then play Schwartz at RT until Beatty gets back and then play Schwartz at RG and Beatty at RT.

Complicated but it's an immediate phase-out of Jerry and final phase-out of Newhouse.
RE: RE: RE: RE: The excitement has worn off after one game?  
jingle_jangle : 8/15/2015 10:32 am : link
In comment 12419211 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 12419178 jingle_jangle said:


Quote:


In comment 12419085 Klaatu said:


Quote:


In comment 12419073 Doomster said:


Quote:



Let's face it, there is a lot of work to be done.......when we re-signed Jerry, after the way he performed last year, it should have been a red flag.....guys wanting Mathis and Long, be careful what you wish for...there really isn't anything out there.....the waiver wire will be this team's only salvation....we can make moves to create cap room, but there really isn't anything out there...any trade, and with the Giants in desperation mode, will not get the better of the deal......

Funny thing is, this front office threw all it's eggs in the JPP basket, and neglected the OL.....yes, it is the first game of the preseason.....but another season below .500, and who knows what will happen? TC's legacy.....maybe Eli doesn't want to sign an extension? Reese can't hide behind injuries forever.....



Jerry wasn't signed to start, and neither was Newhouse.

Regardless, Beatty got hurt on May 20. What OL would you have signed after that? Who was available? It has nothing to do with the JPP situation. It has to do with a guy like Joe Barksdale, with all of his faults, signing with a new team on May 19.

such a dumb comment. How about the last three years having capable depth? His tenure didnt beging may 20th.



Define "capable depth" and give me some examples of teams that can lose starting O-Linemen and not miss a beat.
miss a beat or input a capable player? Im not expecting backup pro bowlers but capable.

You trust schwartz?

The giants of 2007 to 2010 had injuries all the time and inserted capable guys.
The giants of 2007 to 2010 had injuries all the time and inserted capa  
drkenneth : 8/15/2015 10:37 am : link
Please elaborate on this...If you can.
RE: The giants of 2007 to 2010 had injuries all the time and inserted capa  
jingle_jangle : 8/15/2015 10:44 am : link
In comment 12419227 drkenneth said:
Quote:
Please elaborate on this...If you can.
I was speaking of the offensive line in response to.klatu.

Beatty missed most of 2011. In 2010 they shuffled the line after injuries and put in andrews and boothe.
bradshaw, Rich in La, chris r Klaatu, others  
ColHowPepper : 8/15/2015 10:53 am : link
Klaatu, you might, might be right on the micro, but taking the longer view, and Reese's decisions in the draft 2008 - 2012 to stockpile OL development types and fail overwhelmingly, decisively, and then in the past three seasons scramble to fix it; + the shocking fails in his FA additions--it's not about Barksdale in May 2015, it's a regime's multi-year series of bad talent assessments and poor decisions, a lot of money spent for the shitshow of an OL. Other teams play with capable OLs with 4th, 5th rounders, FAs, as well as the top-of-the-draft types. The JR regime has stunk at this, and here you have the result.

bradshaw, I'm not sure where you get 4 years, Reese has been at this helm since, what, 2007?

Rich in LA, yup

chris r - it's early, yes, but as Hh said, it looks like rinse and repeat; they have looked like dogs..t in the past 3 pre-seasons, more of the same, between a thin, mediocre roster and poor talent evaluators, it's not a good formula. The injuries, can it really be just bad luck year after year?
first pre season game is always  
nygiants16 : 8/15/2015 10:53 am : link
The ugliest... Everything is so vanilla it looked like McAdoo stuck to ten plays..

As for the defense it is so basic it is hard to judge...couple of things I noticed Bengals attacked hosely I don't think they threw once at DRC...also Bennet Jackson is all over the field

If they struggle this bad against the jets then I will start to worry...not after the first preseason game
nygiants16  
ColHowPepper : 8/15/2015 11:05 am : link
it was you, was it not, who projected the 2007 defense vs. the 2015 defense and opted to take each of the projected 2015 starters over Mitchell, Pierce, and Torborg? Keeping track, but the opening reviews do not favor that assessment.
col  
nygiants16 : 8/15/2015 11:06 am : link
Hell no they don't haha
Kuhn stinks Hosley stinks Fenner stinks  
Headhunter : 8/15/2015 11:09 am : link
Adrien Robinson stinks Newhouse stinks
That is my stinky observation
RE: nygiants16  
jingle_jangle : 8/15/2015 11:12 am : link
In comment 12419253 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
it was you, was it not, who projected the 2007 defense vs. the 2015 defense and opted to take each of the projected 2015 starters over Mitchell, Pierce, and Torborg? Keeping track, but the opening reviews do not favor that assessment.
2015 defense better then.2007......bahahahahahshsd
RE: RE: nygiants16  
nygiants16 : 8/15/2015 11:27 am : link
In comment 12419262 jingle_jangle said:
Quote:
In comment 12419253 ColHowPepper said:


Quote:


it was you, was it not, who projected the 2007 defense vs. the 2015 defense and opted to take each of the projected 2015 starters over Mitchell, Pierce, and Torborg? Keeping track, but the opening reviews do not favor that assessment.

2015 defense better then.2007......bahahahahahshsd


Reading comprehension is your friend

What I said was the linebackers and dB's on paper have POTENTIAL to be better than linebackers and dB's in 07

And right now that does not look to be the case...but go ahead keep on trolling...

What previously banned poster are you?
RE: RE: RE: nygiants16  
Joey in VA : 8/15/2015 12:03 pm : link
In comment 12419288 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 12419262 jingle_jangle said:


Quote:


In comment 12419253 ColHowPepper said:


Quote:


it was you, was it not, who projected the 2007 defense vs. the 2015 defense and opted to take each of the projected 2015 starters over Mitchell, Pierce, and Torborg? Keeping track, but the opening reviews do not favor that assessment.

2015 defense better then.2007......bahahahahahshsd



Reading comprehension is your friend

What I said was the linebackers and dB's on paper have POTENTIAL to be better than linebackers and dB's in 07

And right now that does not look to be the case...but go ahead keep on trolling...

What previously banned poster are you?
I appreciate your optimism, I really do but you're missing one very very important thing about football. It's a TEAM game and it has a domino effect from the lines. Were Torbor, Mitchell and Pierce the best LB trio of all time? No, far far from it, and our secondary was not much write home about but the two things that really make the difference here are that we had talented veteran depth and our front 4 was a nightmare to contend with. When teams have to contend with Strahan, Osi, Tuck OFF THE BENCH!!!, Cofield and Robbins. We had a DT tandem that could shut down the run and pressure the pocket and the best DE trio of perhaps all time. Those guys were a impossible to contend with down the stretch and it made our LBs and DBs look much better because their jobs were far easier.

That is NOT the case here. We have Jon Hankins up front and what else? When a hall of fame DE shows up, and a young DE who ends up as an all pro is coming off our bench and you have a speed rusher who can terrorize any LT he faces arrive...then we can talk. Until then it doesn't matter who is on the backend, this front four is bad bad bad and it will trickle down. The fact that we have castoffs not good enough for most teams as veteran DB depth along with players who have proven nothing in front of them at safety...not a good sign at all.

There is hope but it's a big big IF. IF Moore learns to play with more power and can be counted on, if Ayers is never asked to play DE against the run, if Bromley can look decent against guys who won't be bagging groceries in 3 weeks, if Jenkins somehow shines like never before at age 32, if Ellis takes the chance to get snaps and runs with it, if Selvie recaptures the form he had two years ago, if Wynn is given a shot and continues to grow, if Kuhn gets cut and we don't have to watch him get shoved around...then and maybe then this DL will be competent. Competent is as good as this group can and will be even if everything breaks right. The talent is NOT there, period.
Just watched the NFLN encore...  
raever : 8/15/2015 12:10 pm : link
I hope they put Kuhn with the 1's to verify he stinks and is a candidate to be cut. Because he stinks and should be cut.

McBride is a china doll. Before the draft I begged for CB help. Nothing was done. When Hosley and McBride are in your FO plans as 'part of the solution' you have very serious problems at CB. Possibly insurmountable.

Beason looked slow. His ass looked like a bowl of Jello pudding. Even with the paycut/re-structure that contract and re-signing were big mistakes.

The O-line is a mess. If there isn't enough depth on your roster to supplant John Jerry your entire scouting and pro personnel departments should be fired. Newhouse comes as advertised and that's not a good thing.

If Randle and DRC were knicked up and were going to limp off the field after one series why bother starting them? Minor issue yet another head scratching decision/evaluation by this coaching staff.

A handful of the young defenders showed some moxie. Unga, Jackson and Wade. They were a little lost with the schemes but they flew around aggressively and displayed athleticism.

Darkwa was the team MVP and Hunt is a keeper.

It was difficult to evaluate the TE's and WR's effectively as the O-line was a sieve all night long. I'll just give both groups an incomplete for now.

Overall it was a shit show but it's very early and I'm not going to overreact to the first pre season game. Obviously there is a ton of work to do.
joey my whole point was  
nygiants16 : 8/15/2015 12:11 pm : link
That if the linebackers and secondary can play well and do their jobs it can allow spags to be a lot more aggressive and in turn help the pass rush

There is no argument about the dline because that dline was great
Didn't see too much Bengal success  
Headhunter : 8/15/2015 12:11 pm : link
straight up the middle running the ball after the first series. They fooled OO twice on the edge and Selvie & Moore gave up the edge. The middle was fine
RE: joey my whole point was  
Joey in VA : 8/15/2015 12:16 pm : link
In comment 12419384 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
That if the linebackers and secondary can play well and do their jobs it can allow spags to be a lot more aggressive and in turn help the pass rush

There is no argument about the dline because that dline was great
That's the rub though, I don't think they can. DRC is fine but injury prone, as is Prince and behind them? Rubbish. I'm not real encouraged.
they have 0 NFL depth  
Headhunter : 8/15/2015 12:26 pm : link
at CB and the safeties at best are a work in progress. I liked Bennett Jackson, he got beat, but he looks like a player.Collins before he got hurt looked meh on a couple of plays. Other teams are going to deep often with a lot of success unless they hit the QB. The middle of the field is and has been a black hole where Giant DB's disappear.The LB's have problems in coverage. It could be a nightmare
RE: Kuhn stinks Hosley stinks Fenner stinks  
Mason : 8/15/2015 12:34 pm : link
In comment 12419259 Headhunter said:
Quote:
Adrien Robinson stinks Newhouse stinks
That is my stinky observation


Robinson was the best TE on the field. The bloom is so far off Donnell is ridiculous. He's a one trick pony pure and simple. And he isn't that great at that trick either if he can't secure the ball.

And let be first to say it, you are not going to win in this league now if your QB lacks any form of decent speed. Eli's handoffs look like a rerun of the Six Million Dollar Man. Very painful to watch him move. Maybe they should think about moving the HB closer to him.
Robinson  
Headhunter : 8/15/2015 12:41 pm : link
seemed to short arm a pass over the middle, they didn't replay it, but it seemed he could have sold out to make the catch and he didn't. If Robinson is the best TE on the Giants,they have a huge TE problem
Ahh, yes... Mr. Speedy himself.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 8/15/2015 12:41 pm : link
So now we have Manning being slow handing off...  
okiegiant : 8/15/2015 12:44 pm : link
did I read this correctly?

Explain, please...
.  
Bill2 : 8/15/2015 1:21 pm : link
There is a difference between a team with top talent and a competitive team.

If Beatty was on the left and flowers on the right....I'd be much more comfortable. And I would have hope that this could be a high scoring offense

Even with Jpp...The lbs and secondary leave this a team without enough talent to go far in the playoffs...imho...at this time.

Very competitive offense was drafted and signed. Not so on defense that I can see.

Other thoughts:

OO has significant stamina issues?

The offense will show how it will target the middle with Vereen and Jennings and Williams and TEs in the short and screen game ....last and most surprisingly once the season starts??

Lastly, given that they only can change at this point what can be changed....making the least mistakes shedding people and picking up other teams people....is the most important thing to do right now? ?
My god you people never learn  
djm : 8/15/2015 1:39 pm : link
And to ones who know this game and know this team and knew that this team would suck last year, great you called the bar year, but I question whether you called that the offense would end up top ten last year. During the preseason every swinging dick here told me I was a fool for saying the preseason meant nothing save fit injuries. I was an idiot. The offense would be laughably bad last year you all insisted. And yet, it wasn't.

So excuse me while I question any definitive conclusions made on one fucking preseason game. You guys never ever learn.

Go to Vegas and make some bets based on the preseason games. Draft FF players based on the preseason too. You'll be glad you did. Promise.
That's not to say that preseason doesnt serve a purpose of course  
djm : 8/15/2015 1:42 pm : link
Whatever I'm done. I can't read nyg threads this time of year without feeling urged to stab myself in the eyeball.

I'll see you in December when we are competing for a playoff spot and we can rebash this thread. Enjoy August football.
I'm starting to think that  
Headhunter : 8/15/2015 2:04 pm : link
this it is the way TC gets his team ready. No sense of urgency by his starters in preseason. Repetitions and simple vanilla plays. This Offense was dynamic as the season ended and it will pick up where it left off and be better IMO. It's the back 7 of the Defense that is thin and worrisome as it was the past couple of seasons. I did some some different pressure packages that came close to getting home and was a second too late and their QB managed to get off the pass and connect with his receiver. Bottom line the O will carry its weight, hope the Defense held, stays healthy and gets its timing down and get home and nail QB's
Defense gels  
Headhunter : 8/15/2015 2:05 pm : link
.
RE: My god you people never learn  
Joey in VA : 8/15/2015 2:23 pm : link
In comment 12419519 djm said:
Quote:
And to ones who know this game and know this team and knew that this team would suck last year, great you called the bar year, but I question whether you called that the offense would end up top ten last year. During the preseason every swinging dick here told me I was a fool for saying the preseason meant nothing save fit injuries. I was an idiot. The offense would be laughably bad last year you all insisted. And yet, it wasn't.

So excuse me while I question any definitive conclusions made on one fucking preseason game. You guys never ever learn.

Go to Vegas and make some bets based on the preseason games. Draft FF players based on the preseason too. You'll be glad you did. Promise.

I'd love to put some money on that with you. THis is still a team devoid of playoff talent and I don't know how to explain that to you. Our offense was top ten last year? That's what you're hanging your hat on? A team with a putrid defense that got absolutely run off the field more times than should be tolerable will all of the sudden be good because we put up some yards down the stretch? Don't throw bullshit stats around to prove some fucking point you can't make. Yes I told everyone this team would suck last year and it went 6-10. This team will suck again this year, not compete for a playoff spot. At the VERY BEST we will win 8 games, but this is a team that had a terrible defense and lost its best player to a firework. You expect that to be an improvement? You think JT Thomas and Casillas, careeer backups in for Jacquian Williams and Paysinger is the key to a playoff run?

You're providing NOTHING but..wait just wait you'll see in 4 months that I'm smart. Tell me why genius. Show me the massive improvement on this team from the end of last year and how we'll suddenly overcome the Eagles and Cowboys in our division to challenge for a playoff spot. Please, instead of whining about nothing with your best pal speedy, offer something concrete as to WHY you think this team is improved, position by position, side by side and we can discuss. Otherwise just keep drooling into a bucket until November and we'll wake you when the season is over. You're better off not watching and confusing yourself further than trying to unravel this thing called football.
RE: So now we have Manning being slow handing off...  
Mason : 8/15/2015 2:28 pm : link
In comment 12419437 okiegiant said:
Quote:
did I read this correctly?

Explain, please...


He is slow footed. The OL couldn't sustain blocks long enough. Hell, Williams got blasted as he received the ball on a play. That's why there were more shotgun plays and using draws with Eli.
Joey, whats with all the anger?  
okiegiant : 8/15/2015 2:31 pm : link
.
Brady uses quick throws to compensate  
Mason : 8/15/2015 2:32 pm : link
as he noted. Something the Pats did more and more after the early part of their schedule last year because when he tries to go down the field now, he's not very effective. Does Brady even throw down the field anymore. Screen plays for runs.
RE: RE: So now we have Manning being slow handing off...  
okiegiant : 8/15/2015 2:33 pm : link
In comment 12419618 Mason said:
Quote:
In comment 12419437 okiegiant said:


Quote:


did I read this correctly?

Explain, please...



He is slow footed. The OL couldn't sustain blocks long enough. Hell, Williams got blasted as he received the ball on a play. That's why there were more shotgun plays and using draws with Eli.


Ohhhhh...I see. Is this something new? Maybe Williams getting blasted had to do with Richburg falling down? Is it always on Manning?
RE: RE: So now we have Manning being slow handing off...  
Emil : 8/15/2015 2:38 pm : link
In comment 12419618 Mason said:
Quote:
In comment 12419437 okiegiant said:


Quote:


did I read this correctly?

Explain, please...



He is slow footed. The OL couldn't sustain blocks long enough. Hell, Williams got blasted as he received the ball on a play. That's why there were more shotgun plays and using draws with Eli.


hmm, this statement ignores the multiple 1,000+ yd rushers Eli has played with in his career.
RE: RE: RE: So now we have Manning being slow handing off...  
Mason : 8/15/2015 2:42 pm : link
In comment 12419634 okiegiant said:
Quote:
In comment 12419618 Mason said:


Quote:


In comment 12419437 okiegiant said:


Quote:


did I read this correctly?

Explain, please...



He is slow footed. The OL couldn't sustain blocks long enough. Hell, Williams got blasted as he received the ball on a play. That's why there were more shotgun plays and using draws with Eli.



Ohhhhh...I see. Is this something new? Maybe Williams getting blasted had to do with Richburg falling down? Is it always on Manning?


If you think that was the issue than the Giants are in great shape. Unless it is always on the OL.
RE: RE: RE: So now we have Manning being slow handing off...  
Mason : 8/15/2015 2:46 pm : link
In comment 12419650 Emil said:
Quote:
In comment 12419618 Mason said:


Quote:


In comment 12419437 okiegiant said:


Quote:


did I read this correctly?

Explain, please...



He is slow footed. The OL couldn't sustain blocks long enough. Hell, Williams got blasted as he received the ball on a play. That's why there were more shotgun plays and using draws with Eli.



hmm, this statement ignores the multiple 1,000+ yd rushers Eli has played with in his career.


hmm..., that statement ignores the fact that this isn't the past we are talking about.
RE: RE: RE: RE: So now we have Manning being slow handing off...  
Emil : 8/15/2015 2:48 pm : link
In comment 12419656 Mason said:
Quote:
In comment 12419634 okiegiant said:


Quote:


In comment 12419618 Mason said:


Quote:


In comment 12419437 okiegiant said:


Quote:


did I read this correctly?

Explain, please...



He is slow footed. The OL couldn't sustain blocks long enough. Hell, Williams got blasted as he received the ball on a play. That's why there were more shotgun plays and using draws with Eli.



Ohhhhh...I see. Is this something new? Maybe Williams getting blasted had to do with Richburg falling down? Is it always on Manning?



If you think that was the issue than the Giants are in great shape. Unless it is always on the OL.


Since last year it's been on the OL about 75% of the time.
I've read a lot of dumb shit  
dep026 : 8/15/2015 2:52 pm : link
on this board. but proclaiming williams got blasted due to a slow Hand off by eli is top 5 most ridiculous things ever. I really hope that's a joke.
Lots of talent and depth questions  
nyynyg : 8/15/2015 3:03 pm : link
but I refuse to go off the deep end off the first pre-season game. The same concerns going into it exist now. And frankly should exist even if we scored 50. We'll see what we have in a few weeks, right now it is to find the top 53 of what we do have.
When you're so far up Jerry Ree's ass that you're spinning about Eli's  
Devon : 8/15/2015 3:10 pm : link
hand-off speed being a critical problem for a team to deflect, it's perhaps time to step back.
I'm not blaming Eli, I'm blaming the play calling  
Mason : 8/15/2015 3:14 pm : link
Unlike you guys I don't expect Eli to move around like he did when he was younger. I expect more screen and draw plays. You know like Kubiak said he would have Peyton doing.
If they don't find a way to replace Newhouse  
nicky43 : 8/15/2015 8:17 pm : link
They will not win more than 5 or 6 games at best. He is way worse than I thought. Our Offense will get absolutely no respect with this o-line and it looks like we'll need a very good offense to cover a shaky defense.
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