Some observations from the game:
Obviously, it is way too early to panic, but with that said, has last season ended? This game was a very indicative of this team in recent seasons. Injuries, penalties and problems running the ball and stopping the run.
Example: they win the coin toss and receive the ball. The returner brings it out from 8 yards deep and doesn’t even make it to the 20. 2 failed run attempts and an incomplete pass and it is 4th down. Punt goes to the Cincinnati 40 yard line and the penalty for running out of bounds brings it up to the 45. A few plays later, they are losing 7-0. Unprepared and undisciplined. Par for the course the last 3 years. That has to change if they want to make the playoffs.
Another example: injuries. Collins, Thompson, Hosley, McBride all down. I’d be stunned if the Thompson injury isn’t a ruptures Achilles tendon. It looked bad. This team is razor thin at CB with Rodgers-Cromartie and Amukamara nursing groin injuries, Chykie Brown nursing a knee injury and Hosley and McBride out. There has to be a reason for this team leading the league in injuries year in and year out. It is extremely frustrating.
Don’t pay attention to the stats or numbers. The Bengals kicked the Giants asses. At one point late in the 1st quarter with the starters still in, the offense had -2 total yards and the defense was giving up 5.8 yards per play. Not good. Gaping holes to run through defensively and way too much penetration allowed on offense. The offensive play calling was extremely bland. I’m hoping that is part of the problem.
Now onto some personnel observations:
Markus Kuhn seems like a nice kid, but he does not belong on the field. He cannot anchor. He consistently gets pushed and washed. Apparently he tried to get stronger in the offseason but I don’t think it helped. The tackles he makes are 10 to 12 yards downfield. He is part of the problem with trying to stop the run.
Jayron Hosley earned some praise and writers have said he turned the corner. I don’t see it; he looks exactly the same to me. Gives way too large of a cushion and gets beat in coverage consistently for big gains. Chandler Fenner was beat repeatedly. He just did not look good. He got lucky with not being called for a pass interference near the end zone. He did have a few good coverage plays on special teams but I’m not sure that will be enough to make the team.
I keyed in on John Jerry and he was absolutely putrid tonight. Gave up a ton of pressure and could not move his man in the run game at all. I don’t think he has a place on this team. He was that bad. I counted at least 6 plays that a run play blew up because he was pushed back or his man beat him and made the tackle. 6 plays in less than a quarter of play is embarrassing. Marshall Newhouse was not much better. Beat consistently. I counted at least 4 plays where he was beaten and the throw had to be rushed or the run play was blown up. Not good.
I do not want to be redundant BUT THIS TEAM NEEDS OFFENSIVE LINEMEN! They will not win with what they have now. They have no tackles. Evan Mathis, Jake Long, or a veteran that shakes loose must be signed. I cannot reiterate this enough. This has been a problem for entirely too long (no pun intended). I read something earlier that said Long has about 3 or 4 teams interested and the reason that no team has signed him yet is because it does not look like he will be healthy enough to play in week 1. I just don’t see any viable options on this roster. Mosley is inconsistent. Hart is raw. Bamiro is a project. Gettis looked alright but had a penalty. Herman did not look good and got beat several times. Donnelly was up and down. Cleary was inconsistent. Something must be done to remedy this situation.
The team will have some tough cuts at RB. I really like Orleans Darkwa. Picks ups the blitz very well and has good vision. He always seems to fall forward and finish his runs by gaining extra yardage. He looked like the best back on the team tonight. Jennings looks a little hesitant to me and dances too much. Williams looks very deliberate like he thinks too much. Akeem Hunt brings some value to special teams with a big return although it would have been nice to see him take it the distance. He does have some explosion when he gets the ball.
The pass rush looked OK. Moore and Selvie were up and down. They were able to pressure the passer but at times got blocked and let up some big run plays. Odigizuwa had a rough night. He looked fatigued at times and didn’t stay home for some run plays. I was hoping to see more from him. Kerry Wynn had a good game. He is a very steady player. He anchors pretty well and is a smart, player and rarely out of position. He gets solid penetration and anchors pretty well. He was victim of a few double team blocks tonight though.
Preston Parker had a huge drop on a 3rd down play. I think he has a long way to go to make this team as James Jones, Corey Washington and Geramy Davis all look to be ahead of him in the battle for the final WR spot. Although, Washington did get his hands on some balls that I thought he could have hauled in. I don’t think James Jones is a lock for the roster. He was only OK tonight. Davis did nothing and I don’t even think he had his name called. Julian Talley made a few nice catches late to add onto his strong camp, and he was robbed of another catch by “not completing the catch to the ground.”
Justin Currie is always around the ball. Looks a tad slow in coverage, but he fills in the fun game and isn’t afraid to hit. Really nice showing from him tonight including special teams.
Jay Bromley was active. As was Dominique Hamilton, but not as much as Bromley. I was hoping to see more from Kenrick Ellis. He had a quiet night and he didn’t get a lot of snaps. Hopefully he will get a few more snaps in the remaining games as Kuhn is clearly not the answer.
Trevin Wade looked pretty good. He made a nice break on the ball at one point but drop an interception, he had some good coverage at other points but he was beat for a deep ball by Greg Little which lead to a field goal. He did have the interception late but that was really a result of the all-out blitz. Credit to the kid though as he made the play.
Uani Unga earned some praise and was really running sideline to sideline. He made a few nice plays, but I’m not ready to give him a roster spot as some media members are.
A very quiet night from the TE’s. Cunningham one reception for a decent sized gain. Donnell and Robinson had a catch but no one stood out.
Top 5 studs:
Orleans Darkwa
Kerry Wynn
Justin Currie
Jay Bromley
Trevin Wade
Top 5 duds:
John Jerry
Markus Kuhn
Marshall Newhouse
Jayron Hosley
Chandler Fenner
The top 3 CBs on this team right now appear to be Prince, DRC, and Wade. Honorable mention to Bennett Jackson because he might see time at Nickel CB. If a vet CB shakes loose during cuts, you have to kick the tires.
This team will suffer through another losing season if the lines do not learn to take control of the LOS. The right side of the OL is holding back what could be a good unit. The three young OL (Richburg, Pugh, and Flowers) appear to have what it takes. Jerry and Newhouse aren't even worth the title of journeyman. This is another area that Reese needs to add vet depth too. I'd take Long on one leg over Newhouse at this point.
On the DL, this team still cannot stop the run, and that better change fast! Kuhn is an experiment that needs to end. I've never been one of those fans that blames Reese and the front office as I think there has been just as much bad luck as bad personnel decisions, but it is clear to the most clueless among us what the problems with this team are. The lack of depth at CB, OL, and subpar play of the front 7 against the run is as glaring as the sun. I just don't see how Reese can feel comfortable at all going into the season with what they have on the roster at these positions. At this point, does anyone really think Hosley, Mosely, and Kuhn is going to emerge?
Mosley struggled a little at RT.. got pegged for a false start but the 2nd unit did play pretty well with him at RG when he slid inside.
Reynolds looked good on that 21 yard run by Darkwa. Got to the 2nd level and sealed off the lane. I believe Hermann was also the reason for the big hole.
Markus Kuhn is really bad. I've never seen it with this guy and still don't.
Flowers had a solid debut. Thought he and Pugh did a really solid job on the left side. Pugh is going to be a better OG than OT, IMO.. the slide inside makes a lot of sense.
The defense is going to take time but I really think we're just undermanned. The injuries only exacerbate the issue. Spags has his work cut out for him. He's got a lot of deficiencies he's going to have to work around.
Jerry and Newhouse simply aren't NFL starters. Hopefully we can survive those two, the Flowers/Pugh/Richburg crew will need to grow up quick.
1st preseason game. They still have some time to get better.
I don't blame Flaherty when the FO brings in someone else's trash and is asked to turn it into a jewel on the most critical and vulnerable position/s in recent years. These stiffs aren't suitable as back up's let alone starters for the love of God!
Obviously it's early but I don't know how anyone can be happy or at the very least satisfied with the state of the OL ...it appears to be the same re-run that we're watching whether it's injury, lack of depth, lack of capable depth or lack of talent.
I agree 100% with everything. I've been saying the Giants will not have any success without a solid offensive line, it doesn't matter how many weapons they have, they will go nowhere without an Oline period. Reese has experimented enough and something has to be done to repair the issues with this Giants Oline. They need to look elsewhere quickly while they still have time to fix this mess. If the Giants don't even have a solid starting Oline, how bad is the depth?? You simply cannot win game in the Nfl without a solid Oline! This is not good for the rest of Eli's career, and it simply is not fair.
I also mentioned this before about the Giants 3rd CB position. This is another huge concern right now. The lack of depth at the CB position is alarming?! Hosley is terrible, Chykie is joke, and Mcbride is not reliable.. I wanted to see what we had in Trevin Wade and he showed more in this game then the others which was a good thing. They need to look into getting some better depth in this area as well.
Overall a horrible start to the preseason by the Giants. This trend is becoming a huge concern and it makes you think, who is running this team?? Where is the leader?? TC?
But Hunt wow -- I think he is the real deal..
he has vision and speed this kid could be answer to kick off returns
I have a question how many Bengals were hurt tonight compared to Giants?
It's not really that it's a "surprise" rather it's more of a, well, here we go again and what season in the 21st century will we see the OL return to its glory days of the SB run's? By the way, he really is very impressive on Twitter, no joke. As far as his play on the OL, thus far he has an incomplete on his reporrt card and I pray to God we will see him out there and he'll be what we need and have hoped for from the day he was signed.
This team has a very small core, only a slightly larger decent, and a whole lot of meh.
I almost always try not to criticize the front office or the coaching staff, but I just don't get why Kuhn is still on the roster. My only guess is that he does a decent job taking on blockers and protecting our linebackers, but I just don't see it.
worry about the injuries -- and start panicking at game 3 if you must --
Reese waited too long to fix this....both lines are the building blocks of a team....Resse thinks you build a house by starting with the roof...
Reese waited too long to fix this....both lines are the building blocks of a team....Resse thinks you build a house by starting with the roof...
And you think that you can build a dominant O-Line in one or two seasons, which is ridiculous.
Reese Does!
Quote:
They waited too long, to fix the OL.....draft Pugh.....and now move him....draft Richburg, and play him out of position.....draft Flowers, and need him to be lights out from the first game on.....overpay a 7th round draft pick who can't stay on the field....where is the consistency coming from? It sometimes takes years for an OL to come together...the Giants are trying to do it each year with different players and playing musical chairs....and meanwhile, the Eli window closes a little more....
Reese waited too long to fix this....both lines are the building blocks of a team....Resse thinks you build a house by starting with the roof...
And you think that you can build a dominant O-Line in one or two seasons, which is ridiculous.
He clearly said "Reese waited too long to fix this" implying he doesn't think it can be fixed in two years.
Reese waited too long to fix this....both lines are the building blocks of a team....Resse thinks you build a house by starting with the roof...
What exactly is Reese supposed to do if picks/FAs get hurt?
The OL for 2015 was supposed to be:
Beatty-Pugh-Richburg-Schwartz-Flowers
2 of those guys are hurt. Jerry and Newhouse aren't supposed to start (no matter how much BBI bitches about it)
The second game is against a crappy Jaguar team. If the first teams don't look a lot better in that game then I'm afraid we're in for another long season.
Quote:
In comment 12419131 Doomster said:
Quote:
They waited too long, to fix the OL.....draft Pugh.....and now move him....draft Richburg, and play him out of position.....draft Flowers, and need him to be lights out from the first game on.....overpay a 7th round draft pick who can't stay on the field....where is the consistency coming from? It sometimes takes years for an OL to come together...the Giants are trying to do it each year with different players and playing musical chairs....and meanwhile, the Eli window closes a little more....
Reese waited too long to fix this....both lines are the building blocks of a team....Resse thinks you build a house by starting with the roof...
And you think that you can build a dominant O-Line in one or two seasons, which is ridiculous.
He clearly said "Reese waited too long to fix this" implying he doesn't think it can be fixed in two years.
Go fuck yourself, radar. Let Doomster fight his own battles you annoying little prick.
The Giants won their second Super Bowl championship under Reeese's tenure in 2011. They'd drafted Will Beatty in 2009 and he started ten games at LT in 2011 before he got hurt.
After the 2010 season, O'Hara and Seubert both retired. In 2011, Reese signed David Baas, the best available UFA Center, to replace O'Hara. It's unfortunate that Baas' career was cut short by injury, but you can hardly fault Reese for that. He wasn't neglecting anything. Reese had also signed Kevin Boothe several years earlier. The Giants took the time to develop him into a more than capable LG who took over for Seubert.
Now, it's true that several of Reese's OL draft picks didn't pan out - Brewer, Petrus, Mosley, McCants - and his best UFA OL - Stacy Andrews - couldn't stay healthy, but still it had nothing to with neglect. Resources are finite and you allocate them the best you can.
Kareem McKenzie retired after the 2011 season. The Giants drafted Justin Pugh in 2012. Chris Snee and David Diehl retired after the 2013 season. The Giants drafted Weston Richburg in 2014 and signed several UFA OL, including Geoff Schwartz. They drafted Ereck Flowers in 2015.
The point is that the Giants' O-Line that had been dominant for several years beginning in 2007 began to unravel in 2010. By 2013 it was completely gone. Still, the Giants were able to win it all in 2011. It's been three years since then, but it took four years to build it in the first place. If Beatty hadn't gotten hurt it would be looking pretty good after three years. As it stands now, we'll probably need another year - that fourth year - to return it to dominance.
Can Dallas Reynolds play RG if Schwartz isn't healthy?
Quote:
In comment 12419138 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 12419131 Doomster said:
Quote:
They waited too long, to fix the OL.....draft Pugh.....and now move him....draft Richburg, and play him out of position.....draft Flowers, and need him to be lights out from the first game on.....overpay a 7th round draft pick who can't stay on the field....where is the consistency coming from? It sometimes takes years for an OL to come together...the Giants are trying to do it each year with different players and playing musical chairs....and meanwhile, the Eli window closes a little more....
Reese waited too long to fix this....both lines are the building blocks of a team....Resse thinks you build a house by starting with the roof...
And you think that you can build a dominant O-Line in one or two seasons, which is ridiculous.
He clearly said "Reese waited too long to fix this" implying he doesn't think it can be fixed in two years.
Go fuck yourself, radar. Let Doomster fight his own battles you annoying little prick.
The Giants won their second Super Bowl championship under Reeese's tenure in 2011. They'd drafted Will Beatty in 2009 and he started ten games at LT in 2011 before he got hurt.
After the 2010 season, O'Hara and Seubert both retired. In 2011, Reese signed David Baas, the best available UFA Center, to replace O'Hara. It's unfortunate that Baas' career was cut short by injury, but you can hardly fault Reese for that. He wasn't neglecting anything. Reese had also signed Kevin Boothe several years earlier. The Giants took the time to develop him into a more than capable LG who took over for Seubert.
Now, it's true that several of Reese's OL draft picks didn't pan out - Brewer, Petrus, Mosley, McCants - and his best UFA OL - Stacy Andrews - couldn't stay healthy, but still it had nothing to with neglect. Resources are finite and you allocate them the best you can.
Kareem McKenzie retired after the 2011 season. The Giants drafted Justin Pugh in 2012. Chris Snee and David Diehl retired after the 2013 season. The Giants drafted Weston Richburg in 2014 and signed several UFA OL, including Geoff Schwartz. They drafted Ereck Flowers in 2015.
The point is that the Giants' O-Line that had been dominant for several years beginning in 2007 began to unravel in 2010. By 2013 it was completely gone. Still, the Giants were able to win it all in 2011. It's been three years since then, but it took four years to build it in the first place. If Beatty hadn't gotten hurt it would be looking pretty good after three years. As it stands now, we'll probably need another year - that fourth year - to return it to dominance.
Now that's a response.
I think the only real damning part of Reese's handling of the line is missing on mid round picks like Petrus, Mosely, Brewer, Cordle. I can see a few misses or just getting very average guuys, but not to get embarassed by these guys.
This team is a work in progress we knew that before last night. I still think there's dangerous team in there but things have to come together. They won't come together this soon nor should they and if the Giants dropped 30 and sacked Cincy all night long I would feel the same as I do now. Preseason fooled me once it won't fool me again. I look at player performance in a vaacum this time of year.
Yet long was cut and we don't even know if he can even dress let alone play. Mathis was cut too. But he's awesome. Solves all our problems, until he doesn't.
I saw Randle maturing and becoming a true #2 beating single coverage regularly, even if for the 5 yard hitch and throws.
I saw Kuhn gaining size, strength and experience and being a solid run game and special teamer. So far, I don't see it or rather hear it from anyone of merit.
I saw Mosley FINALLY grabbing hold and making the roster as the swing guy but he isn't going to get past the first round of cuts.
Finally, I really really had high hopes for TE Robinson due to his physical tools but he too hasn't shown much from reports. He needs to show something game 2 else he too may be cut.
Bottom line is our 2012 draft has few if any "players" that have panned out. Randle is the best and that ain't saying much at all. Sad.