a few easy points, given his penchant for helmet-to-helmet violations, tackling helmets in instead of players. We must be in pretty big trouble as someone mentioned earlier.
What's the status on his injury, must be bad. Looks like another wasted pick at safety, fuck!
Dude, you are reading way too much into this. With Berhe, Collins, and Thompson hurt, the Giants barely have enough guys to run practice. Also if another safety goes down (God forbid) at practice or in a game, they are really hurting.
Signing Merriweather says nothing about the Collin's situation. He has been evaluated, and he is day-to-day with an MCL sprain. By no means a wasted draft pick. He'll be back.
I found if you agree with everything a troll writes, it infuriates them. Sarcasm it was and will be going forward. You can't get to them by cursing and yelling, they want that, so just agree with everything they write
Projects over the years and have done fairly well (Christian Peter comes to mind) and so I am hoping for the best. He is certainly better then CC Brown!!
Was he a team captain in college? He didn't go to BC or Syracuse. He's not Irish. Maybe it's the Pats connection? Odd choice for the Giants. Could cost them the NFL's classiest trophy. Of course the Giants can't figure out a way to sign their 2 time Super Bowl MVP QB so who knows what's going on in the Mara bunker.
I don't like this guy at all> a headhunter. Hate that kind of player> but thats what you do when you are desperate. Wow. O line sucks, LBs suck, and Safties suck. If this team finishes below .500... (fill in the rest)
No, he's not a great player. Would you rather they sign some other UDFA rookie? People are screaming for Reese to pick up a gimpy Offensive Tackle just because he's a veteran and a former first round draft pick. So, Reese does this in the secondary and it's a terrible signing?
It's a good signing because, yes, with all the injuries and the lack of experience they are getting desperate. At least they brought in a veteran who might know what in the world to do back there.
It's a little tough when you lose a key player on each line before camp even opens to freak injuries. There's nothing Reese can do about that.
I think he started the OL rebuild a couple years too late and that it's going to take another offseason beyond the one we just had before this OL really starts to work again.
I think the DL has a shot to be ok. We do have some solid players there and Hankins is a stud. Losing JPP is a big loss, though. No way around it. And that one's not on Reese. He was supposed to be a key part of this defensive line.
on this signing to add someone to the roster in our current situation and adding someone who had a decent number of starts in the NFL. What do you guys want at this point?
I think he's pretty well regarded around here, now at least.
Seems to me that Jerry Reese got most of the credit for the '07 draft. To the point where it seemed that HE was responsible for the core, not Accorsi. And I was one of those people, to an extent. But in retrospect, Accorsi built that team and deserves his due.
Accorsi was a veteran GM who really knew how to build an old school line, with a mixture of vets and mid to late round picks. He did it in 2000, and he did it prior to what would become the championship years with saavy moves.
people give Reese credit for the '07 draft and SB XLII doesn't happen without the '07 draft.
but that pales in comparison to the core that Accorsi put together. I just think people know Reese was a part of Accorsi's staff too, so it's not like he came from outside and inherited a roster.
I think most reasonable people give both guys credit.
No, he's not a great player. Would you rather they sign some other UDFA rookie? People are screaming for Reese to pick up a gimpy Offensive Tackle just because he's a veteran and a former first round draft pick. So, Reese does this in the secondary and it's a terrible signing?
It's a good signing because, yes, with all the injuries and the lack of experience they are getting desperate. At least they brought in a veteran who might know what in the world to do back there.
He's a dirty player. No place for his headhunting antics.
RE: Outside of skill positions, our roster sucks....
Coughlin said when he came in, that we needed to win the battle in the trenches on both sides of the ball. Accorsi helped him do that.
Reese has not. IMO, Reese is to blame for our failures the last 3 years.
I know he gets a lot of shit, but the core was built by Accorsi, and Reese let it rot away.
Sorry, but that's how I feel.
You can examine this to death, pick by pick, signing by signing, but overall it's bottom third talent depth at safety, LB, TE, and bottom half talent at DE and OL.
The signing. More depth at the position. He played ten games last year and had 54 tackles, 34 solo, three sacks, four passes defensed, three forced fumbles and a fumble recovery. Stats dont appear to be bad but we know stats dont tell the whole story.
You are not getting a great player at this point so they got one of the better options available. Maybe this team could use his nastiness. Sometimes it seems like they are too nice, though I dont want to see the head hunting.
Britt, Reese was handling the draft the past few years under Ernie
the trade for Eli was Ernie's move. I have no idea why Reese is a popular whipping boy around here, when the selections are made with heavy input from the coaches themselves. We invested first rounders on Pugh, and Flowers, and also a couple 2nd rounders on Richburg, Hankins, and spend two 3rds on OO and Bromley. IMO what your saying doesn't come with much substance. It's too early to judge if the recent investments will pan out, but I think the arrow is pointing up for our fronts. We've had an incredible string of bad luck on the injury front with our draft picks, it's a tough job to keep restocking the cupboard when the shelf life of your investments are much shorter than anticipated.
Also, Accorsi is one of the most over-deified figures around here, based on his Eli trade. He's had his share of misses than he did successes. Look at his drafts from when he took over in '98 to the Eli deal. It's easy to polish a draft resume that looks like a turd when you land a franchise QB. The development of our 2007 OL had a lot to do with McNally being able to turn late round/undrafted prospects into reliable players IMO.
Prior to the draft what did Reese do about the safety position.
A.Nothing
B.Jack shit
C.Diddly poo
D.All of the above
Ghost, actually the Giants made a major play for the best safety on the free agent market but he chose to stick with the Patriots. As you seem to partially allude to, they drafted the prospect who was widely regarded as the best safety in the draft. They also signed Jeromy Miles, who many on BBI wanted him to sign in March.
with re-treads like Parker and Lomas Brown in 2000. They fell off the edge in 2001 and Accorsi replaced them with "stalwarts" like Ian Allen, Lucier and Hatch.
It wasn't until TC arrived in 2004 that the Giants really rebuilt the OL with Snee and McKenzie and O'Hara.
Was he a team captain in college? He didn't go to BC or Syracuse. He's not Irish. Maybe it's the Pats connection? Odd choice for the Giants. Could cost them the NFL's classiest trophy. Of course the Giants can't figure out a way to sign their 2 time Super Bowl MVP QB so who knows what's going on in the Mara bunker.
Accorsi was a veteran GM who really knew how to build an old school line, with a mixture of vets and mid to late round picks. He did it in 2000, and he did it prior to what would become the championship years with saavy moves.
OLine has been a joke for quite a few years now, injuries or not. If this was the first or second time the OLine has looked scary bad, you could let it slide. But it isn't. Not even close, unfortunately. And of course Accorsi had a HUGE deal to do with that 2007 roster. People just used to give Reese all of the credit when he was on top of the world a 7-8 years ago.
with re-treads like Parker and Lomas Brown in 2000. They fell off the edge in 2001 and Accorsi replaced them with "stalwarts" like Ian Allen, Lucier and Hatch.
It wasn't until TC arrived in 2004 that the Giants really rebuilt the OL with Snee and McKenzie and O'Hara.
I disagree. Reese drafted Dave Diehl in the 5th round in '03, who was a stalwart on the line for both championship seasons. He made saavy FA signings in O'hara and McKenzie. Who has Reese drafted or signed in FA that has been anywhere near any of these three?
with re-treads like Parker and Lomas Brown in 2000. They fell off the edge in 2001 and Accorsi replaced them with "stalwarts" like Ian Allen, Lucier and Hatch.
It wasn't until TC arrived in 2004 that the Giants really rebuilt the OL with Snee and McKenzie and O'Hara.
I disagree. Reese drafted Dave Diehl in the 5th round in '03, who was a stalwart on the line for both championship seasons. He made saavy FA signings in O'hara and McKenzie. Who has Reese drafted or signed in FA that has been anywhere near any of these three?
Brandon jacobs
Bradshaw
Aaron Ross
Manningham
Nicks
Cruz
Steve smith
with re-treads like Parker and Lomas Brown in 2000. They fell off the edge in 2001 and Accorsi replaced them with "stalwarts" like Ian Allen, Lucier and Hatch.
It wasn't until TC arrived in 2004 that the Giants really rebuilt the OL with Snee and McKenzie and O'Hara.
I disagree. Reese drafted Dave Diehl in the 5th round in '03, who was a stalwart on the line for both championship seasons. He made saavy FA signings in O'hara and McKenzie. Who has Reese drafted or signed in FA that has been anywhere near any of these three?
Brandon jacobs
Bradshaw
Aaron Ross
Manningham
Nicks
Cruz
Steve smith
Diehl (5th round pick)
Seubert (undrafted)
O'hara (moderate FA money)
Snee (2nd round pick)
McKenzie (good FA money)
Those five guys stayed together for a long time, and as a unit started a record amount of games in a row I believe for awhile, which lasted us well into 2009.
and we allowed 2011 to make us think the window was longer than it actually was. One injury that I think set us back more than we imagined was Adam Koets. That guy was actually playing solid football at C and then his knee blows out and that's the last we hear from him. Also, I imagine with the new restrictions that come with the new CBA, guys like David Diehl don't develop like they did before. There are only so many snaps to go around, and I think that plays a huge role in why our depth is so shaky. It's not the main culprit, but it certainly is one of them IMO.
with re-treads like Parker and Lomas Brown in 2000. They fell off the edge in 2001 and Accorsi replaced them with "stalwarts" like Ian Allen, Lucier and Hatch.
It wasn't until TC arrived in 2004 that the Giants really rebuilt the OL with Snee and McKenzie and O'Hara.
I disagree. Reese drafted Dave Diehl in the 5th round in '03, who was a stalwart on the line for both championship seasons. He made saavy FA signings in O'hara and McKenzie. Who has Reese drafted or signed in FA that has been anywhere near any of these three?
Brandon jacobs
Bradshaw
Aaron Ross
Manningham
Nicks
Cruz
Steve smith
As you and PEEJ point out, Accorsi didn't spend resources on the OL. Reese - who ran the scouting department - has spent far more high draft picks on the OL.
Ernie's draft philosophy changed with the arrival of Coughlin. These decisions are not made entirely on the GM. Input comes from the scouts, and coaches as well. If Reese is going to be made the whipping boy for some reason, then Coughlin should as well. He's out there at the pro days scouting these guys himself.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Accorsi caught lightning in a bottle
with re-treads like Parker and Lomas Brown in 2000. They fell off the edge in 2001 and Accorsi replaced them with "stalwarts" like Ian Allen, Lucier and Hatch.
It wasn't until TC arrived in 2004 that the Giants really rebuilt the OL with Snee and McKenzie and O'Hara.
I disagree. Reese drafted Dave Diehl in the 5th round in '03, who was a stalwart on the line for both championship seasons. He made saavy FA signings in O'hara and McKenzie. Who has Reese drafted or signed in FA that has been anywhere near any of these three?
Brandon jacobs
Bradshaw
Aaron Ross
Manningham
Nicks
Cruz
Steve smith
resources on the OL. Hatch was a 3rd round reach. That was the highest draft pick for OL by Accorsi.
Well he didn't seem to need to, since he'd been able to put together a line that seems more competent than anything Reese has put together since he's been responsible for doing it.
Look, I know he had some shit years too, and I'm not trying to use revisionist history, but 5/5 guys in 07-08 were Accorsi guys, and 3/5 guys in 2011 were Accorsi guys. I think that says something. What O-lineman can Reese hang his hat on?
Ghost, actually the Giants made a major play for the best safety on the free agent market but he chose to stick with the Patriots. As you seem to partially allude to, they drafted the prospect who was widely regarded as the best safety in the draft. They also signed Jeromy Miles, who many on BBI wanted him to sign in March.
I don't expect people to be perfect,but you gotta have a better plan when it comes to free agency.That being focused on one or two guys, and than throwing in the towel.Going into the draft the way they did is risky,and that's why Reese is the gambler.
Nothing has changed,people thought we were going stick with drafting team captains...yeah right.
Reese moved up the ranks in the organization as Director in 2002
Reese has spent two #1's and two #2's on the OL in recent years.
He signed the best guard (Geoff Schwartz) and center (David Baas) on the open market in their respective years, two guys BBI'ers were pinning for.
He also picked up Kevin Boothe.
And yet our line still seems to suck.
Look, I'm patient, and I always look for the positive. But at this point, for me, it's "money talks and bullshit walks". I want to see it on the field.
RE: I can't believe all the negativity about this signing
No, he's not a great player. Would you rather they sign some other UDFA rookie? People are screaming for Reese to pick up a gimpy Offensive Tackle just because he's a veteran and a former first round draft pick. So, Reese does this in the secondary and it's a terrible signing?
It's a good signing because, yes, with all the injuries and the lack of experience they are getting desperate. At least they brought in a veteran who might know what in the world to do back there.
Anyone who is complaining about this has to be doing it for attention and trolling. There's no way you can look at this move and think it was a poor decision.
It's clear Reese is doing it now but we're likely going to need one more year to really fortify it. The idea that he's ignoring it is, quite frankly, ridiculous and not true. He's rebuilding it. He's spent numerous premium picks on it in recent years and has attempted to expedite the process via free agency.
Everyone loved the Schwartz signing when it happened. Now the guy has trouble getting on the field and suddenly it's an indictment on Reese.
It's clear Reese is doing it now but we're likely going to need one more year to really fortify it. The idea that he's ignoring it is, quite frankly, ridiculous and not true. He's rebuilding it. He's spent numerous premium picks on it in recent years and has attempted to expedite the process via free agency.
Everyone loved the Schwartz signing when it happened. Now the guy has trouble getting on the field and suddenly it's an indictment on Reese.
Dallas did. They went from a shit O-line to one of the best pretty quickly.
1) it's difficult to get rid of some of the stalwarts who've been battling in the trenches for many years. We were late to remove guys like O'Hara and Snee when it was pretty clear their best days are well behind them.
2) New CBA. It's much tougher to develop depth guys these days with limited snaps and limited contact. That's why Gilbride Jr said guys like Larry Donnell are rare in this day and age.
3) We had a couple down years in the draft department that coincided with Marc Ross' assent to Director of Scouting. Our drafts when Reese was much more hands on have seen quality returns.
How do we know the line "sucks" right now? Flowers isn't going to grow and improve? Richburg isn't going to get better now that he's at his natural position? Pugh can't be better inside (looked pretty darn good to me on Friday night) ?
Who the hell knew that Will Beatty was going to get hurt lifting weights? We'd all like more depth but we don't have it because we've already got guys on the sidelines.
We've discussed on BBI all summer how the problem was they haven't gotten much from five drafts in a row because of bad drafting combined with a lot of catastrophic injuries.
Lets look at some of the most egregious examples:
WR Plaxico Burress: One of the best receivers in team history. In 2008, the Giants were 10-1, including having already beaten both eventual Super Bowl participants at their stadiums, when Burress accidentally shoots himself in a nightclub. The event ended his season and career with the Giants at the age of 31. New York faded down the stretch and was knocked out in the first round of the playoffs.
WR Steve Smith: A former 2007 2nd-round draft pick, in 2009, Smith became the first Giants receiver to be voted to the Pro Bowl since Homer Jones in 1968. The following year, Smith suffered a knee injury that basically ended his career at the age of 25. He left the Giants after the season and retired in 2013.
TE Kevin Boss: A very solid two-way tight end, Boss saw his career with the Giants prematurely end after the 2010 season at the age of 26 when he signed a free agent contract with the Oakland Raiders. As subsequent events proved correct, the Giants were concerned about Boss repeated concussion history and chose not to match the Raiders contract offer.
TE Jake Ballard: Boss replacement, Ballard surprised everyone by quickly turning into a very solid two-way tight end in 2011, being an important part of the 2011 championship team. However, Ballards career ended at the Super Bowl when he wrecked his left knee. 24 years old, Ballard never played for the Giants again.
S Kenny Phillips: A former 2008 1st-round draft pick, injuries to both knees (one in 2009 and the other in 2012) negatively impacted and prematurely ended Phillips promising career with the Giants after the 2012 season at the age of 26. Phillips is now attempting a comeback with the Saints.
RB Ahmad Bradshaw: The sixth-leading rusher in team history saw his career with the Giants prematurely end at the age of 26 after the 2012 season due to chronic foot issues.
CB Terrell Thomas: A former 2008 2nd-round draft pick, Thomas suffered ACL tears to the same knee in 2011 and 2012. Although he played in all 16 games in 2013, he was never the same promising player and was out of football at the age of 28.
WR Hakeem Nicks: A former 2009 1st-round draft pick, Nicks extremely promising career with the Giants ended in 2013 at the age of 25 after suffering compartment syndrome (swelling in the lower leg that compresses nerves and blood vessels, possibly causing permanent damage). Before the injury, Nicks looked primed to be a franchise all-time great.
RB David Wilson: A former 2012 1st-round draft pick, Wilsons career ended at the age of 22 in his second season due spinal stenosis. Wilson proved to be an extremely dangerous kick returner and may have been particularly well suited to Ben McAdoos offense as a runner and receiver.
WR Victor Cruz: One of the most productive players in franchise history and a Pro Bowl receiver, Cruz suffered a potentially career-altering patellar tendon knee injury in 2014 at the age of 27. Cruz is expected to play in 2015 but it remains to be seen if he will be the same dynamic football player.
DE Jason Pierre-Paul: A former 2010 first-round draft pick, Pierre Paul had a breakout season in 2011 when he dominated as the games best two-way defensive end. Injuries caused him to regress in 2012-13 before a bounce-back season in 2014. A fireworks accident in July 2015 caused severe damage to his right hand, including an amputated finger. Pierre-Pauls best days may already be behind him at the age of 26. There is also a good chance he wont be a New York Giants after 2015.
How do we know the line "sucks" right now? Flowers isn't going to grow and improve? Richburg isn't going to get better now that he's at his natural position? Pugh can't be better inside (looked pretty darn good to me on Friday night) ?
Who the hell knew that Will Beatty was going to get hurt lifting weights? We'd all like more depth but we don't have it because we've already got guys on the sidelines.
I don't know if the 2015 line sucks, but the 2012, 2013, and 2014 line, I think I can say pretty defnitively, sucked.
Dallas didn't go from shit to all pro in one season
It's clear Reese is doing it now but we're likely going to need one more year to really fortify it. The idea that he's ignoring it is, quite frankly, ridiculous and not true. He's rebuilding it. He's spent numerous premium picks on it in recent years and has attempted to expedite the process via free agency.
Everyone loved the Schwartz signing when it happened. Now the guy has trouble getting on the field and suddenly it's an indictment on Reese.
Dallas did. They went from a shit O-line to one of the best pretty quickly.
Not really, it started when they drafted Smith in 2011. It took about 4 years and multiple draft picks to bloom into a dominant unit.
Ghost, actually the Giants made a major play for the best safety on the free agent market but he chose to stick with the Patriots. As you seem to partially allude to, they drafted the prospect who was widely regarded as the best safety in the draft. They also signed Jeromy Miles, who many on BBI wanted him to sign in March.
I think they also wanted Ron Parker from KC but didn't feel like he was worthy the money he was looking for.
Either way, they've invested slightly more into the Safeties but much less than others the past several years just like they have with the Tight Ends. Reliant an awful bunch on young guys or low tier vets (Quintin Demps, Stevie Brown, Ryan Mundy, Daniel Fells, Bear Pascoe, etc.).
I didn't care for what I've seen from Miles so far. I just sincerely hope Collins is able to get back on track and Bennett Jackson improves.
has been awful, but as stated multiple times in this thread, continuity is needed to properly evaluate the OL.
the 2007 OL played a record 34 consecutive games together and then Beatty, a 2nd round pick, was brought in as was Baas, a high $$ free agent and Boothe a low $$ free agent.
Give this line some time healthy together before saying how awful it is, i just have a hard time blaming the GM for injuries. no one wants or plans to have John Jerry or Marshall Newhouse see the field for their teams. It would be like judging the 2008 OL with Adam Koets at LT or Grey Ruegamer with significant snaps at C or worse a street free agent replacing an injured starter.
Tyron Smith took a couple seasons to become dominant
guys like Doug Free are passable starters, not worth writing home about, but weaknesses easily masked playing with an all pro type Guard and one of the best C's in Frederick.
Believe me, I'm well aware of it. Those injuries and subsequent pretty much ending the careers of those guys so prematurely was outrageous. I'm more talking about the OLine, which has been bad for the last 3-4 years now.
When you step back a second you realize the only player lost
for the season, Mykele Thompson was a probable practice squad player anyway. Berhe and Collins are day to day (allegedly). I look at this as insurance, not as a permanent move. Our injuries drive me nuts like many others around here. I doubt the training staff. Where I disagree is in believing the injuries are the reason we have stunk the last two years. It is bullshit. I know the stats, but we tend to quickly waive/ir/injured players for various reasons that compound that statistic. See Dan Connor and Trindon Holiday. Since camp we have nagging injuries and that is it. As for Beatty, I think we would never win with him, at least at LT, so I don't coiunt that as such a huge loss. JPP is not in this teams future anyway, and if Damontre Moore, Owa and Ayers can't play, once again we weren't going to win. I'm tired of excuses. The Cowboys were devastated by injuries on defense last year. They hung tough and won. We need to do the same.
But injuries factor in there too. Snee and Baas should still be playing, but injuries ended their careers.
My biggest problem with Reese and Ross? Too many bad mid-round picks. Had even 2-3 of the OL's they drafted after round three been solid, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Then in 2013, the Cowboys signed Leary as a UDFA and drafted Fredrick in the 1st rd
Smith-Leary-Fredrick-Bernadeau-Free
Finally, in 2014, they drafted Martin in the 1st rd and replace Bernadeau with him
Smith-Leary-Fredrick-Bernadeau-Free
So, aside from Free, who was a 4th rd pick in 2007.. Dallas completely started revamping their OL in 2011 when they spent their 1st rd pick on Smith. It took 4 seasons for it to become what it is now.
This plan would have likely worked and worked quite well. I think Pugh will be a superb OG though it will take him a few games to adjust, I'm sure.
The injury to Beatty really threw a monkey wrench into things. I am just hoping that Flowers can at least be "average/acceptable" as a rookie.
If we can stay healthy through camp the OL of
Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Schwarz-Newhouse will be "adequate" at least. It is quite possible that the interior OL could be superb and Flowers might be a rookie mauler as a run blocker. Let hope we run really well behind this OL, that is my prayer.
But injuries factor in there too. Snee and Baas should still be playing, but injuries ended their careers.
My biggest problem with Reese and Ross? Too many bad mid-round picks. Had even 2-3 of the OL's they drafted after round three been solid, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
That's true. But the Giants OLine has been pretty bad since at least 2012, and as others have pointed out, you could go back to 2011 with that claim, if you really wanted to. That's 4 seasons ago. Not like the front office hasn't had sometime now to improve past where we are now. And yes, I know injures have hit the OLine, as well. What else is new? At some point, though, injures or not, we need to see some results from the OLine. Kind of an important unit.
I mean all the way around. Shocked they made a move to sign a vet, shocked it's him who I've always hated due to his style of play, shocked he was available, and shocked that I'm glad!
Prior to the draft what did Reese do about the safety position.
A.Nothing
B.Jack shit
C.Diddly poo
D.All of the above
Ghost, actually the Giants made a major play for the best safety on the free agent market but he chose to stick with the Patriots. As you seem to partially allude to, they drafted the prospect who was widely regarded as the best safety in the draft. They also signed Jeromy Miles, who many on BBI wanted him to sign in March.
That Reese made a major move to sign McCourty is commendable. However his plan B or lack there of is not. We were all pretty stunned when he showed no interest in any other safety. After missing on Mc Courtyard he could have still resigned Rolle to what would have been a reasonable contract. That would have been better than what we are dealing with now.
No one's arguing that the OL should have been addressed sooner.
My point that it IS being addressed now and has been these last couple years but will likely need one more draft/FA period to round it out. It's closer now but it's still about one player short.
Like I said, it takes longer than 1-2 years to completely revamp an offensive line and set it up for the long term. Reese is doing it now but it's not quite there and the injuries have only put a bigger dent in that.
imagine how much worse shape the OL would be in if we didn't take Beatty. If Koets never got injured, the money we spent on Baas could have been used elsewhere.
Prior to the draft what did Reese do about the safety position.
A.Nothing
B.Jack shit
C.Diddly poo
D.All of the above
Ghost, actually the Giants made a major play for the best safety on the free agent market but he chose to stick with the Patriots. As you seem to partially allude to, they drafted the prospect who was widely regarded as the best safety in the draft. They also signed Jeromy Miles, who many on BBI wanted him to sign in March.
That Reese made a major move to sign McCourty is commendable. However his plan B or lack there of is not. We were all pretty stunned when he showed no interest in any other safety. After missing on Mc Courtyard he could have still resigned Rolle to what would have been a reasonable contract. That would have been better than what we are dealing with now.
Give me a list of these stud safeties we could have gotten as a plan B. Fact of the matter is that there's a significant drop off after McCourty, and the guys in that next tier were asking for more than we are willing to pay.
RE: No one's arguing that the OL should have been addressed sooner.
My point that it IS being addressed now and has been these last couple years but will likely need one more draft/FA period to round it out. It's closer now but it's still about one player short.
Like I said, it takes longer than 1-2 years to completely revamp an offensive line and set it up for the long term. Reese is doing it now but it's not quite there and the injuries have only put a bigger dent in that.
I'm skeptical as to whether he can do it or not. I know it takes time, but I've been waiting awhile for a good o-line now.
Coughlin came in in 2004 and said he wanted a good o-line. Well, we got it. Then Accorsi retired. I'm confident Coughlin's philosophy never changed.
We could all go back and forth on this all night....
My opinion is, until the O-line performs to the standards of NYG football and controlling the LOS, we will continue to struggle, regardless of what happens elsewhere on the team.
My opinion is that our season goes however the O-line's season goes.
but how do you know Reese wasn't primarily responsible for the 2004/2005 OL additions (Snee, McKenzie, and O'Hara).
he was the director of player personnel during those additions.
I get as the GM you get the accountability label, but does anyone of us really believe Accorsi made those decisions solely on his own?
Maybe Reese is just better than his replacement if you know what I mean.
In either case I still stand by waiting for this line to have a chance to play together, which might not even happen.
And Accorsi/Reese didn't build the SBXLII OL overnight. the Giants for a while had one of the worst OL in the league and in 2004 what was widely believed to be the worst OL in the league.
I think it's safe to say Pugh is a piece to go forward with. I think Richburg will more than hold his own at C. I think Flowers will be legit.
So right there, we probably have 3/5 of our long-term solutions. I don't know what the future holds for Beatty but I do know he's good enough to start at one of the T spots and will help whenever he does get back.
I think we're probably a RG short (maybe Mosley finally puts it together or maybe Hart proves he can swing it)
I don't think the OL is super far from being good though. 3 spots are occupied by young kids who should be able to hold down their spots for a long time. Like I said, I think all we need is one more offseason to really fortify it but I'm not even convinced it'll be terrible this year. Certainly not 2013 bad.
he would understand that the Giants were just testing players out, and the safety position is completely unsettled. If you think they were anywhere close to making any decisions at safety you don't know much about the Giants, or football. I guess they don't play sports much out there in pussyville LA.
but how do you know Reese wasn't primarily responsible for the 2004/2005 OL additions (Snee, McKenzie, and O'Hara).
he was the director of player personnel during those additions.
I get as the GM you get the accountability label, but does anyone of us really believe Accorsi made those decisions solely on his own?
Maybe Reese is just better than his replacement if you know what I mean.
In either case I still stand by waiting for this line to have a chance to play together, which might not even happen.
And Accorsi/Reese didn't build the SBXLII OL overnight. the Giants for a while had one of the worst OL in the league and in 2004 what was widely believed to be the worst OL in the league.
It's a slippery slope, I don't know that anymore than whether he was responsible for the guys PEEJ mentioned like Hatch and Wayne Lucier if we want to go down that road.
Whomever the GM/figurehead is, gets the credit as well as the blame.
I think it's safe to say Pugh is a piece to go forward with. I think Richburg will more than hold his own at C. I think Flowers will be legit.
So right there, we probably have 3/5 of our long-term solutions. I don't know what the future holds for Beatty but I do know he's good enough to start at one of the T spots and will help whenever he does get back.
I think we're probably a RG short (maybe Mosley finally puts it together or maybe Hart proves he can swing it)
I don't think the OL is super far from being good though. 3 spots are occupied by young kids who should be able to hold down their spots for a long time. Like I said, I think all we need is one more offseason to really fortify it but I'm not even convinced it'll be terrible this year. Certainly not 2013 bad.
But how long do we have? We need them to be good starting right now. This is Eli's third act and who knows what the future holds at QB in 4 years or so.
And I don't think our safeties are going to be that bad. Collins will have growing pains, but he's the long-term starter. Thompson was earning 1st team reps already too. Berhe was supposed to start. Jackson has surprised.
There will be growing pains, but this is not a bad group. The Thompson injury hurts.
he would understand that the Giants were just testing players out, and the safety position is completely unsettled. If you think they were anywhere close to making any decisions at safety you don't know much about the Giants, or football. I guess they don't play sports much out there in pussyville LA.
Testing players out means they are getting a legitimate look. And no, I never thought they are close to making set decisions week 1 of training camp. If you want to make straw men arguments to make yourself feel better, go ahead. You got caught with your pants down for making a completely uninformed, shithead comment on Flowers. Probably won't be the last either. Your ass should be charging me rent for the space I'm occupying in your head after you mentioned my name in some other thread. Go fuck yourself kindly.
Paul Schwartz @NYPost_Schwartz 12s13 seconds ago Manhattan, NY
Brandon Meriweather has come catching up to do: "Im going to get with coach every day until I get it the way I knew every other defense.
1 retweet 0 favorites
I think it's safe to say Pugh is a piece to go forward with. I think Richburg will more than hold his own at C. I think Flowers will be legit.
So right there, we probably have 3/5 of our long-term solutions. I don't know what the future holds for Beatty but I do know he's good enough to start at one of the T spots and will help whenever he does get back.
I think we're probably a RG short (maybe Mosley finally puts it together or maybe Hart proves he can swing it)
I don't think the OL is super far from being good though. 3 spots are occupied by young kids who should be able to hold down their spots for a long time. Like I said, I think all we need is one more offseason to really fortify it but I'm not even convinced it'll be terrible this year. Certainly not 2013 bad.
But how long do we have? We need them to be good starting right now. This is Eli's third act and who knows what the future holds at QB in 4 years or so.
I honestly don't think the line is even going to be that bad this year. I think it'll be "ok".. as long as we don't get the injury bug there.
I think next year it will turn into a strength again.
since he's in agreement with me on Thompson. He was definitely in the mix. It's ok to admit you're wrong without acting out like a defensive little bitch.
EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. Jon Beason and Brandon Meriweather enjoyed the NFLs version of a family reunion today at Giants training camp.
The linebacker and safety were teammates for four seasons at the University of Miami (2003-06). They share a birthday, Jan. 14. The two players were selected 24th (Meriweather) and 25th in the 2007 NFL Draft.
And now theyve reunited. The Giants today signed Meriweather, a nine-year veteran and two-time Pro Bowler, to shore up the back of their defense, which has been depleted by injuries.
Once a Cane (Miami Hurricane), always a Cane, Beason said after practice. So to me, its about putting the band back together. We played all four years together, he was All-American, he was the quarterback of our defense and got everybody lined up. Extremely intelligent player, could be coaching one day. Understands fronts, run fits, coverage, entry angles, how to break on the ball. Thats how you get big hits, taking the proper steps and anticipation. Hes going to help us tremendously, a veteran, another voice back there, and I think its going to make our secondary a lot better.
Thats my brother, Meriweather said. Its like going to a family reunion. Its like getting back with your brother. In his and my case, getting back with my little brother.
Meriweather was the New England Patriots first-round draft choice in 2007. Beason was chosen moments later by the Carolina Panthers.
We had an ongoing bet who was going to go first, and he one-upped me, Beason said. It was all good.
I beat him, he knows that, Meriweather said. I actually thought he was going to go first, but yeah, I beat him.
Meriweather spent four seasons with the Patriots and has also played for Chicago and Washington. He was a Pro Bowler in 2009-10. So was Beason, who was traded here on Oct. 4, 2013.
Of course, the Giants are far less interested in their friendship than they are in how well Meriweather can play. With Nat Berhe (calf), Landon Collins (knee) and Mykkele Thompson (Achilles tendon, out for the season) sidelined, they need help at safety.
"Im excited, man, Meriweather said. Anytime you can come to a great organization, youve always got to be excited and ready to help.
Im going to go in and Im going to put my all into it. Im going to get with coach every day until I get it the way I knew every other defense.
Asked if he is still the player who was selected to two Pro Bowls, Meriweather said, I know I am.
Meriweather was thrown into the fire in the full-pads practice, taking far more reps than he anticipated.
They actually threw me in and I didnt know I was going to get that many reps at all, he said. I thought I was going to do some running around, but not that.
Its always good to learn on the fly. Its always good just to learn, just throw them in and let them sink or swim. Thats the way you learn.
Give me a list of these stud safeties we could have gotten as a plan B. Fact of the matter is that there's a significant drop off after McCourty, and the guys in that next tier were asking for more than we are willing to pay.
The so called significant drop off after McCourty has to be a better option than Meriweather.So while you're sitting there drawing lines in the sand,coming up with excuses not to sign a guy.This is what you're looking at after one preseason game.
Once Beatty returns the line is going to be much better with Flowers, Pugh, Ricburg, and Schwartz beginning to gel.
As for the safeties I have to admit that I am more confident in this group than I expected. Honestly I thought Bennett Jackson had a solid chance of making the practice squad. I didn't expect him to flash this early. It is quite impressive that he has flashed so much being despite the fact that he is coming off microfracture surgery and switching positions. I wonder how high his ceiling is being that he started out as a wide receiver at Notre Dame before switching to cornerback. Collins is going to make some mistakes but I like what we are hearing from the coaches and players. Cooper Taylor has actually stayed healthy and he could finally be ready to contribute. Let's hope Berhe returns soon to fight for the final safety spot.
I think it's safe to say Pugh is a piece to go forward with. I think Richburg will more than hold his own at C. I think Flowers will be legit.
So right there, we probably have 3/5 of our long-term solutions. I don't know what the future holds for Beatty but I do know he's good enough to start at one of the T spots and will help whenever he does get back.
I think we're probably a RG short (maybe Mosley finally puts it together or maybe Hart proves he can swing it)
I don't think the OL is super far from being good though. 3 spots are occupied by young kids who should be able to hold down their spots for a long time. Like I said, I think all we need is one more offseason to really fortify it but I'm not even convinced it'll be terrible this year. Certainly not 2013 bad.
Pugh was bad last year, good the year before. Richburg has nothing but draft status to show for himself so far. Flowers we can hope for based on his draft status.
There's a lot of uncertainty with this line, even the supposed sure things.
OK with signing Merriweather. We need bodies in the secondary, especially veterans, and there is apparently nobody else available. The last safety we signed was a male model. Merriweather also probably won't survive the final cuts. But I understand the criticism. He has a reputation for illegal hits, and hasn't done well recently. But he's just probably here to stabilize the position during preseason, so people should relax.
As far as the rest is concerned, Reese has thrown a lot of resources at the OL, including many high draft picks, and FAs like Baas and Schwartz. But as somebody said, we're missing that fourth or fifth round gem like Diehl. Reese has instead given us McCants, Brewer, Petrus, Herman, and Mosley. Baas got injured, but we overpaid because he was the only FA C available. Whether that happens with Schwartz is still an open question. Reese also drafted David Wilson instead of Cordy Glenn. But Pugh, Richburg, and it looks like Flowers were very good picks.
OK with signing Merriweather. We need bodies in the secondary, especially veterans, and there is apparently nobody else available. The last safety we signed was a male model. Merriweather also probably won't survive the final cuts. But I understand the criticism. He has a reputation for illegal hits, and hasn't done well recently. But he's just probably here to stabilize the position during preseason, so people should relax.
As far as the rest is concerned, Reese has thrown a lot of resources at the OL, including many high draft picks, and FAs like Baas and Schwartz. But as somebody said, we're missing that fourth or fifth round gem like Diehl. Reese has instead given us McCants, Brewer, Petrus, Herman, and Mosley. Baas got injured, but we overpaid because he was the only FA C available. Whether that happens with Schwartz is still an open question. Reese also drafted David Wilson instead of Cordy Glenn. But Pugh, Richburg, and it looks like Flowers were very good picks.
Forgot to add that Reese also drafted Beatty, who has played well.
You wear a Giant uniform I root for you to succeed. I know that makes me an outlier on this board, but I don't care about what the did or what they will do when they aren't wearing the uniform
Safety has kinda been a small pleasant surprise so far
Jackson continues to look good. Reports have said that Miles has also looked good. Some pretty solid reports on Collins as well. I was expecting a disaster, but the OL seems to be a much bigger issue than safety at the moment.
We've drafted five safeties in the past few years and haven't gotten a starter yet. Maybe this is the year, assuming one of these guys can be healthy, for fucks sake.
well, they had to do something. This injury thing is really
feeling like a jinx. They finally seem to catch some lightning with Thompson and he gets seriously injured. Collins progressing nicely, gets hit by his own man and goes down. At least it''s not serious, but he can't afford to miss any practice reps. UGH!
with re-treads like Parker and Lomas Brown in 2000. They fell off the edge in 2001 and Accorsi replaced them with "stalwarts" like Ian Allen, Lucier and Hatch.
It wasn't until TC arrived in 2004 that the Giants really rebuilt the OL with Snee and McKenzie and O'Hara.
legit playing time or not. Seemed to be getting good reviews from the beat writers at camp. Funny how he was written off as a huge reach when he was drafted. I think even mainstays on this board were saying this was only a 3 player draft due to the "reaches" in the 5th and 6th rounds. Now the 5th rounder is out and it seems to be a big deal??? Which is the truth, reach on a long term project, or big deal he gets hurt in the 1st Pre season game??????
Given that they rushed him to practice, suited him up and had him play almost the whole thing leads me to believe that this is strictly a player to fill in so that they can continue to practice.
With 3 safeties out they probably didn't even have enough bodies to get through the drills.
If you have to rush someone in off the street would you rather it be a rookie who knows nothing about the NFL or a guy who has been around for 8 years and knows how to run pro defenses?
He's washed up and won't be seeing time come the season.
We need serious help back there, and contrary to popular belief there are not a bunch of all-pro's walking around waiting for our call. At least this guy knows how to play, and has played at a high level. Lets see if he can do it again.
This is no different that wanting to sign Long for the OL. Same idea.
I think we have done well in the past three years there. I know believe we have a young, talented left side of the line we can build around. These are all 1st and 2nd round choices. When Beatty comes back we have our RT. If we can find a RG (Schwartz, Mosley, etc) I think we have the potential to be very good, and being young we will just get better. I am actually bullish on the OL.
He's washed up and won't be seeing time come the season.
3 sacks, 3 forced fumbles and 55 tackles in 10 games last year.
If he can stay on the field, which obviously is the question, there's no reason he can't contribute. 31 is old, but there is currently little evidence to prove he's "washed up."
He's washed up and won't be seeing time come the season.
3 sacks, 3 forced fumbles and 55 tackles in 10 games last year.
If he can stay on the field, which obviously is the question, there's no reason he can't contribute. 31 is old, but there is currently little evidence to prove he's "washed up."
I could very well be wrong but as I said, I think this is a short term move. Yes, he made some plays last year but BM is a huge liability in coverage. He doesn't have the speed or the change of direction skills to consistently stay with receivers.
Maybe our safeties will be so decimated that he's forced into a SS role but my guess is he stays behind Collins and Jackson as long as they're healthy.
Given that they rushed him to practice, suited him up and had him play almost the whole thing leads me to believe that this is strictly a player to fill in so that they can continue to practice.
With 3 safeties out they probably didn't even have enough bodies to get through the drills.
If you have to rush someone in off the street would you rather it be a rookie who knows nothing about the NFL or a guy who has been around for 8 years and knows how to run pro defenses?
He's washed up and won't be seeing time come the season.
Practice body? Merriweather is going to play in games that matter.
Not happy about the OL either, but here we've got a combination of a bad FA market, a slim draft, and injuries. He did what he could, but now we're resorting to Merriweather, who is the beneficiary of that poor FA/draft market.
He's not a good dude, but he's a bottom of the roster player at a position where we will IR a guy. He's the best from a group of bad players. This is what you do when an injury hits. Nothing ground breaking here.
we are fortunate to find someone whose taken NFL snaps. Frankly, i don't like him as a player or sportsman but he's played when real bullets are flying. With our situation at S, we really can't fault this move.
Plus, it's not like he smoked weed a few times...sigh.
I think we have done well in the past three years there. I know believe we have a young, talented left side of the line we can build around. These are all 1st and 2nd round choices. When Beatty comes back we have our RT. If we can find a RG (Schwartz, Mosley, etc) I think we have the potential to be very good, and being young we will just get better. I am actually bullish on the OL.
Despite the pure propoganda on this board about the ol let me posit:
Investing high drafr picks and desperate fa signings after a position.already stinks is not investing a lot in a position. When Reese set to rebuild the line it already stunk. He.misread his 2013 team so bad he put up.s super.bowl clock and had the nerve to draft a qb in the third round.
For all these investments there still.is get one pro bowl player on the line and arguably oy question marks.
The giants have failed miserably so far on that front. Will this year improve maybe, as they did belatedly address it. But they are still.paper thin there and have rampant question marks.
The o line has been a failure in preparation for three years. Its svhocking people refute this by arguing resources were invested. Wow they let a unit sink to the bottom of the league then scrambled to fix it. How wonderful!
"Investing high draft picks and desperate fa signings after a position already stinks is not investing a lot in a position"
That's exactly what it is. There's literally no other way to define it. Complain about the timing all you want, but two 1sts and a 2nd is investing a lot in a position group.
surprised at all of the negativity about this signing.
He's a headhunter, but he's a smart player who makes plays. He might not make the team, but you don't normally find a 31-year old former Pro Bowl player available in mid-August.
The Giants did misread their OL and did wait to long to rebuild
I agree with that. However over the past 3 drafts you can't fault them. They have invested and tried to turn it around. What else could you expect them to do? They now have a left side that has 3 top draft choices. Sure, no all-pro's yet, but that takes a little time. I am bullish on the Flowers-Pugh-Richburg side and think they can anchor a good line.
Add in Beatty at RT, and a RG (maybe Mosley) and we have something. So we can bitch about what happened in 2011-2013, and we do, but I think if you do that you should also acknowledge the work that has been done since then. In fact if Mosley is the RG, that means we will have 4 of the 5 positions manned by top draft picks over the past 4 years. That isn't bad.
(That's a pretty big if). Schwartz should be able to handle rg and we can keep someone - a te or a rb in to help whoever is struggling at rt until Beatty's back.
The negativity is because he can't cover. He's a complete liability in the passing game. I'm usually got my blue colored glasses on but I just don't see him suddenly getting his speed back.
If he's taking meaningful snaps this season the defense will be in real trouble. Here's to hoping Collins and Jackson stay healthy and learn the NFL game. They're the future.
the disaster in Free Agency signings have less to do w/ Ernie or jerry
surprised at all of the negativity about this signing.
He's a headhunter, but he's a smart player who makes plays. He might not make the team, but you don't normally find a 31-year old former Pro Bowl player available in mid-August.
+1
I think maybe personality is coming into play, because it seems like a shrewd move.
All were basically done when they came here, but served not only to solidify their positions when they came here, but ...
Showed the young players how to play at a high level and still had enough left in the tank to make plays at crucial times. RW finishes the Cowboys ....
All were basically done when they came here, but served not only to solidify their positions when they came here, but ...
Showed the young players how to play at a high level and still had enough left in the tank to make plays at crucial times. RW finishes the Cowboys ....
I like this line of thinking, but I can't help but feel like Meriweather is a very different sort of football player than those three respected vets. Grant and Madison were leaders. I'm not sure that's the case here. Meriweather seems like he might be a knucklehead.
Was available till last night, wonder why he wasn't a consideration
Signed with Cleveland. Im a big Ross fan. alwyas have been. very very underrated and under-appreciated player. Always thought he was a much better player then Webster.
RE: RE: Remember Deon Grant, Sam Madison & RW McQuatters ?
All were basically done when they came here, but served not only to solidify their positions when they came here, but ...
Showed the young players how to play at a high level and still had enough left in the tank to make plays at crucial times. RW finishes the Cowboys ....
I like this line of thinking, but I can't help but feel like Meriweather is a very different sort of football player than those three respected vets. Grant and Madison were leaders. I'm not sure that's the case here. Meriweather seems like he might be a knucklehead.
On the other hand, he could benefit by being in more stable organization with a strong head coach. Could go either way. Bottom line is they had to do something and he seems to have been they best available option.
I also have always liked Aaron Ross, not sure what has has left in the tank. He does know the Spas system though. I had no idea he was out there still.
He's proven over and over again he's not an NFL safety and his lack of discipline hurts his team even more.
hopefully this is just because of the early injuries and the need for camp bodies who have at least a slight clue how to play the position.
Desperate times
Now before anyone asks, I am not comparing anyone to Hitler, just the Giants injury bug maybe.
Yes, if Collins is ok then I am not going to worry that much. He can recover from an MCL sprain, but it is going to take rest. Can't rush him back.
I saw conflicting information too, but here is the tweet:
Good news on the injury front today for the Giants: Schwartz, McClain back at practice; Prince, Behre, McBride & Collins will be day-to-day.
Dude, you are reading way too much into this. With Berhe, Collins, and Thompson hurt, the Giants barely have enough guys to run practice. Also if another safety goes down (God forbid) at practice or in a game, they are really hurting.
Signing Merriweather says nothing about the Collin's situation. He has been evaluated, and he is day-to-day with an MCL sprain. By no means a wasted draft pick. He'll be back.
Headhunter...you are joking right? Sorry don't detect sarcasm well on BBI :)
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Dud Berhe tear or strain the calf? I've read both.
I saw conflicting information too, but here is the tweet:
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Giants Daily @NYGDaily 4h4 hours ago
Good news on the injury front today for the Giants: Schwartz, McClain back at practice; Prince, Behre, McBride & Collins will be day-to-day.
A strain is just another way of saying small tear. Good to see he is running/sprinting.
Well if Collins can get healthy instead if covering dez Bryant I guess giants are just going to beat him
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Guess I have to root for him now. Really dumb player. Desperate times call for desperate measures, though.
Well if Collins can get healthy instead if covering dez Bryant I guess giants are just going to beat him
If ya can't beat 'em... beat 'em.
It's a good signing because, yes, with all the injuries and the lack of experience they are getting desperate. At least they brought in a veteran who might know what in the world to do back there.
Hate this move.
Reese has not. IMO, Reese is to blame for our failures the last 3 years.
I know he gets a lot of shit, but the core was built by Accorsi, and Reese let it rot away.
Sorry, but that's how I feel.
It reeks.
I think he started the OL rebuild a couple years too late and that it's going to take another offseason beyond the one we just had before this OL really starts to work again.
I think the DL has a shot to be ok. We do have some solid players there and Hankins is a stud. Losing JPP is a big loss, though. No way around it. And that one's not on Reese. He was supposed to be a key part of this defensive line.
Seems like a good signing given it is mid-August before any September cuts.
Our woes begin and end, IMO, with the offensive line. So much so, that we can't survive any injuries anywhere else.
I think he's pretty well regarded around here, now at least.
2 1sts, 2 2nds, high $$ free agents.
same on the DL, 1 st, 2 3rds, just seems like Reese is spending on the trenches, just the picks aren't working out.
How much of that is Reese? I know he's the one that's accountable, but I don't know what goes into making a selection.
I think he's pretty well regarded around here, now at least.
Seems to me that Jerry Reese got most of the credit for the '07 draft. To the point where it seemed that HE was responsible for the core, not Accorsi. And I was one of those people, to an extent. But in retrospect, Accorsi built that team and deserves his due.
2 1sts, 2 2nds, high $$ free agents.
same on the DL, 1 st, 2 3rds, just seems like Reese is spending on the trenches, just the picks aren't working out.
How much of that is Reese? I know he's the one that's accountable, but I don't know what goes into making a selection.
Well, Accorsi's guys panned out, and Reese's didn't despite premium picks.
Accorsi was a veteran GM who really knew how to build an old school line, with a mixture of vets and mid to late round picks. He did it in 2000, and he did it prior to what would become the championship years with saavy moves.
but that pales in comparison to the core that Accorsi put together. I just think people know Reese was a part of Accorsi's staff too, so it's not like he came from outside and inherited a roster.
I think most reasonable people give both guys credit.
A.Nothing
B.Jack shit
C.Diddly poo
D.All of the above
It's a good signing because, yes, with all the injuries and the lack of experience they are getting desperate. At least they brought in a veteran who might know what in the world to do back there.
He's a dirty player. No place for his headhunting antics.
Reese has not. IMO, Reese is to blame for our failures the last 3 years.
I know he gets a lot of shit, but the core was built by Accorsi, and Reese let it rot away.
Sorry, but that's how I feel.
You can examine this to death, pick by pick, signing by signing, but overall it's bottom third talent depth at safety, LB, TE, and bottom half talent at DE and OL.
You are not getting a great player at this point so they got one of the better options available. Maybe this team could use his nastiness. Sometimes it seems like they are too nice, though I dont want to see the head hunting.
Also, Accorsi is one of the most over-deified figures around here, based on his Eli trade. He's had his share of misses than he did successes. Look at his drafts from when he took over in '98 to the Eli deal. It's easy to polish a draft resume that looks like a turd when you land a franchise QB. The development of our 2007 OL had a lot to do with McNally being able to turn late round/undrafted prospects into reliable players IMO.
A.Nothing
B.Jack shit
C.Diddly poo
D.All of the above
Ghost, actually the Giants made a major play for the best safety on the free agent market but he chose to stick with the Patriots. As you seem to partially allude to, they drafted the prospect who was widely regarded as the best safety in the draft. They also signed Jeromy Miles, who many on BBI wanted him to sign in March.
It wasn't until TC arrived in 2004 that the Giants really rebuilt the OL with Snee and McKenzie and O'Hara.
Maybe he went to West Point?
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Reese has invested far more in the OL than Accorsi ever did.
2 1sts, 2 2nds, high $$ free agents.
same on the DL, 1 st, 2 3rds, just seems like Reese is spending on the trenches, just the picks aren't working out.
How much of that is Reese? I know he's the one that's accountable, but I don't know what goes into making a selection.
Well, Accorsi's guys panned out, and Reese's didn't despite premium picks.
Accorsi was a veteran GM who really knew how to build an old school line, with a mixture of vets and mid to late round picks. He did it in 2000, and he did it prior to what would become the championship years with saavy moves.
OLine has been a joke for quite a few years now, injuries or not. If this was the first or second time the OLine has looked scary bad, you could let it slide. But it isn't. Not even close, unfortunately. And of course Accorsi had a HUGE deal to do with that 2007 roster. People just used to give Reese all of the credit when he was on top of the world a 7-8 years ago.
It wasn't until TC arrived in 2004 that the Giants really rebuilt the OL with Snee and McKenzie and O'Hara.
I disagree. Reese drafted Dave Diehl in the 5th round in '03, who was a stalwart on the line for both championship seasons. He made saavy FA signings in O'hara and McKenzie. Who has Reese drafted or signed in FA that has been anywhere near any of these three?
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with re-treads like Parker and Lomas Brown in 2000. They fell off the edge in 2001 and Accorsi replaced them with "stalwarts" like Ian Allen, Lucier and Hatch.
It wasn't until TC arrived in 2004 that the Giants really rebuilt the OL with Snee and McKenzie and O'Hara.
I disagree. Reese drafted Dave Diehl in the 5th round in '03, who was a stalwart on the line for both championship seasons. He made saavy FA signings in O'hara and McKenzie. Who has Reese drafted or signed in FA that has been anywhere near any of these three?
Brandon jacobs
Bradshaw
Aaron Ross
Manningham
Nicks
Cruz
Steve smith
Just to name a few
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In comment 12421215 PEEJ said:
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with re-treads like Parker and Lomas Brown in 2000. They fell off the edge in 2001 and Accorsi replaced them with "stalwarts" like Ian Allen, Lucier and Hatch.
It wasn't until TC arrived in 2004 that the Giants really rebuilt the OL with Snee and McKenzie and O'Hara.
I disagree. Reese drafted Dave Diehl in the 5th round in '03, who was a stalwart on the line for both championship seasons. He made saavy FA signings in O'hara and McKenzie. Who has Reese drafted or signed in FA that has been anywhere near any of these three?
Brandon jacobs
Bradshaw
Aaron Ross
Manningham
Nicks
Cruz
Steve smith
Just to name a few
He means on the OLine, I'm pretty sure.
Seubert (undrafted)
O'hara (moderate FA money)
Snee (2nd round pick)
McKenzie (good FA money)
Those five guys stayed together for a long time, and as a unit started a record amount of games in a row I believe for awhile, which lasted us well into 2009.
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In comment 12421215 PEEJ said:
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with re-treads like Parker and Lomas Brown in 2000. They fell off the edge in 2001 and Accorsi replaced them with "stalwarts" like Ian Allen, Lucier and Hatch.
It wasn't until TC arrived in 2004 that the Giants really rebuilt the OL with Snee and McKenzie and O'Hara.
I disagree. Reese drafted Dave Diehl in the 5th round in '03, who was a stalwart on the line for both championship seasons. He made saavy FA signings in O'hara and McKenzie. Who has Reese drafted or signed in FA that has been anywhere near any of these three?
Brandon jacobs
Bradshaw
Aaron Ross
Manningham
Nicks
Cruz
Steve smith
Just to name a few
Accorsi drafted Brandon Jacobs.
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In comment 12421219 Britt in VA said:
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In comment 12421215 PEEJ said:
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with re-treads like Parker and Lomas Brown in 2000. They fell off the edge in 2001 and Accorsi replaced them with "stalwarts" like Ian Allen, Lucier and Hatch.
It wasn't until TC arrived in 2004 that the Giants really rebuilt the OL with Snee and McKenzie and O'Hara.
I disagree. Reese drafted Dave Diehl in the 5th round in '03, who was a stalwart on the line for both championship seasons. He made saavy FA signings in O'hara and McKenzie. Who has Reese drafted or signed in FA that has been anywhere near any of these three?
Brandon jacobs
Bradshaw
Aaron Ross
Manningham
Nicks
Cruz
Steve smith
Just to name a few
Accorsi drafted Brandon Jacobs.
Reese was running the draft
They need guys to take snaps period.
Well he didn't seem to need to, since he'd been able to put together a line that seems more competent than anything Reese has put together since he's been responsible for doing it.
Look, I know he had some shit years too, and I'm not trying to use revisionist history, but 5/5 guys in 07-08 were Accorsi guys, and 3/5 guys in 2011 were Accorsi guys. I think that says something. What O-lineman can Reese hang his hat on?
Pugh looks promising, but the jury is still out.
He signed the best guard (Geoff Schwartz) and center (David Baas) on the open market in their respective years, two guys BBI'ers were pinning for.
He also picked up Kevin Boothe.
I don't expect people to be perfect,but you gotta have a better plan when it comes to free agency.That being focused on one or two guys, and than throwing in the towel.Going into the draft the way they did is risky,and that's why Reese is the gambler.
Nothing has changed,people thought we were going stick with drafting team captains...yeah right.
He signed the best guard (Geoff Schwartz) and center (David Baas) on the open market in their respective years, two guys BBI'ers were pinning for.
He also picked up Kevin Boothe.
And yet our line still seems to suck.
Look, I'm patient, and I always look for the positive. But at this point, for me, it's "money talks and bullshit walks". I want to see it on the field.
It's a good signing because, yes, with all the injuries and the lack of experience they are getting desperate. At least they brought in a veteran who might know what in the world to do back there.
Anyone who is complaining about this has to be doing it for attention and trolling. There's no way you can look at this move and think it was a poor decision.
He signed the best guard (Geoff Schwartz) and center (David Baas) on the open market in their respective years, two guys BBI'ers were pinning for.
He also picked up Kevin Boothe.
And those have been mixed results at best, thus far.
Everyone loved the Schwartz signing when it happened. Now the guy has trouble getting on the field and suddenly it's an indictment on Reese.
They've also drafted a ton of duds...Petrus, McCants, Brewer, Mosley, Herman
They've also drafted a ton of duds...Petrus, McCants, Brewer, Mosley, Herman
I agree that they've tried. Thus far, the results haven't been there, though, to say the least. :(
The handwriting was on the wall, but Reese didn't read it
Everyone loved the Schwartz signing when it happened. Now the guy has trouble getting on the field and suddenly it's an indictment on Reese.
Dallas did. They went from a shit O-line to one of the best pretty quickly.
2) New CBA. It's much tougher to develop depth guys these days with limited snaps and limited contact. That's why Gilbride Jr said guys like Larry Donnell are rare in this day and age.
3) We had a couple down years in the draft department that coincided with Marc Ross' assent to Director of Scouting. Our drafts when Reese was much more hands on have seen quality returns.
Who the hell knew that Will Beatty was going to get hurt lifting weights? We'd all like more depth but we don't have it because we've already got guys on the sidelines.
I do like Pugh (as I said), and Richburg, yes.
C'mon, you can't expect me to evaluate Flowers yet.
We've discussed on BBI all summer how the problem was they haven't gotten much from five drafts in a row because of bad drafting combined with a lot of catastrophic injuries.
Lets look at some of the most egregious examples:
WR Plaxico Burress: One of the best receivers in team history. In 2008, the Giants were 10-1, including having already beaten both eventual Super Bowl participants at their stadiums, when Burress accidentally shoots himself in a nightclub. The event ended his season and career with the Giants at the age of 31. New York faded down the stretch and was knocked out in the first round of the playoffs.
WR Steve Smith: A former 2007 2nd-round draft pick, in 2009, Smith became the first Giants receiver to be voted to the Pro Bowl since Homer Jones in 1968. The following year, Smith suffered a knee injury that basically ended his career at the age of 25. He left the Giants after the season and retired in 2013.
TE Kevin Boss: A very solid two-way tight end, Boss saw his career with the Giants prematurely end after the 2010 season at the age of 26 when he signed a free agent contract with the Oakland Raiders. As subsequent events proved correct, the Giants were concerned about Boss repeated concussion history and chose not to match the Raiders contract offer.
TE Jake Ballard: Boss replacement, Ballard surprised everyone by quickly turning into a very solid two-way tight end in 2011, being an important part of the 2011 championship team. However, Ballards career ended at the Super Bowl when he wrecked his left knee. 24 years old, Ballard never played for the Giants again.
S Kenny Phillips: A former 2008 1st-round draft pick, injuries to both knees (one in 2009 and the other in 2012) negatively impacted and prematurely ended Phillips promising career with the Giants after the 2012 season at the age of 26. Phillips is now attempting a comeback with the Saints.
RB Ahmad Bradshaw: The sixth-leading rusher in team history saw his career with the Giants prematurely end at the age of 26 after the 2012 season due to chronic foot issues.
CB Terrell Thomas: A former 2008 2nd-round draft pick, Thomas suffered ACL tears to the same knee in 2011 and 2012. Although he played in all 16 games in 2013, he was never the same promising player and was out of football at the age of 28.
WR Hakeem Nicks: A former 2009 1st-round draft pick, Nicks extremely promising career with the Giants ended in 2013 at the age of 25 after suffering compartment syndrome (swelling in the lower leg that compresses nerves and blood vessels, possibly causing permanent damage). Before the injury, Nicks looked primed to be a franchise all-time great.
RB David Wilson: A former 2012 1st-round draft pick, Wilsons career ended at the age of 22 in his second season due spinal stenosis. Wilson proved to be an extremely dangerous kick returner and may have been particularly well suited to Ben McAdoos offense as a runner and receiver.
WR Victor Cruz: One of the most productive players in franchise history and a Pro Bowl receiver, Cruz suffered a potentially career-altering patellar tendon knee injury in 2014 at the age of 27. Cruz is expected to play in 2015 but it remains to be seen if he will be the same dynamic football player.
DE Jason Pierre-Paul: A former 2010 first-round draft pick, Pierre Paul had a breakout season in 2011 when he dominated as the games best two-way defensive end. Injuries caused him to regress in 2012-13 before a bounce-back season in 2014. A fireworks accident in July 2015 caused severe damage to his right hand, including an amputated finger. Pierre-Pauls best days may already be behind him at the age of 26. There is also a good chance he wont be a New York Giants after 2015.
Who the hell knew that Will Beatty was going to get hurt lifting weights? We'd all like more depth but we don't have it because we've already got guys on the sidelines.
I don't know if the 2015 line sucks, but the 2012, 2013, and 2014 line, I think I can say pretty defnitively, sucked.
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It's clear Reese is doing it now but we're likely going to need one more year to really fortify it. The idea that he's ignoring it is, quite frankly, ridiculous and not true. He's rebuilding it. He's spent numerous premium picks on it in recent years and has attempted to expedite the process via free agency.
Everyone loved the Schwartz signing when it happened. Now the guy has trouble getting on the field and suddenly it's an indictment on Reese.
Dallas did. They went from a shit O-line to one of the best pretty quickly.
Not really, it started when they drafted Smith in 2011. It took about 4 years and multiple draft picks to bloom into a dominant unit.
Ghost, actually the Giants made a major play for the best safety on the free agent market but he chose to stick with the Patriots. As you seem to partially allude to, they drafted the prospect who was widely regarded as the best safety in the draft. They also signed Jeromy Miles, who many on BBI wanted him to sign in March.
I think they also wanted Ron Parker from KC but didn't feel like he was worthy the money he was looking for.
Either way, they've invested slightly more into the Safeties but much less than others the past several years just like they have with the Tight Ends. Reliant an awful bunch on young guys or low tier vets (Quintin Demps, Stevie Brown, Ryan Mundy, Daniel Fells, Bear Pascoe, etc.).
I didn't care for what I've seen from Miles so far. I just sincerely hope Collins is able to get back on track and Bennett Jackson improves.
the 2007 OL played a record 34 consecutive games together and then Beatty, a 2nd round pick, was brought in as was Baas, a high $$ free agent and Boothe a low $$ free agent.
Give this line some time healthy together before saying how awful it is, i just have a hard time blaming the GM for injuries. no one wants or plans to have John Jerry or Marshall Newhouse see the field for their teams. It would be like judging the 2008 OL with Adam Koets at LT or Grey Ruegamer with significant snaps at C or worse a street free agent replacing an injured starter.
Beatty-Pugh-Richburg-Schwartz-Flowers
My biggest problem with Reese and Ross? Too many bad mid-round picks. Had even 2-3 of the OL's they drafted after round three been solid, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
In 2012, they flipped Smith to LT and Free to RT
Smith-Livings-Cook-Bernadeau-Free
Then in 2013, the Cowboys signed Leary as a UDFA and drafted Fredrick in the 1st rd
Smith-Leary-Fredrick-Bernadeau-Free
Finally, in 2014, they drafted Martin in the 1st rd and replace Bernadeau with him
Smith-Leary-Fredrick-Bernadeau-Free
So, aside from Free, who was a 4th rd pick in 2007.. Dallas completely started revamping their OL in 2011 when they spent their 1st rd pick on Smith. It took 4 seasons for it to become what it is now.
Beatty-Pugh-Richburg-Schwartz-Flowers
The injury to Beatty really threw a monkey wrench into things. I am just hoping that Flowers can at least be "average/acceptable" as a rookie.
If we can stay healthy through camp the OL of
Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Schwarz-Newhouse will be "adequate" at least. It is quite possible that the interior OL could be superb and Flowers might be a rookie mauler as a run blocker. Let hope we run really well behind this OL, that is my prayer.
My biggest problem with Reese and Ross? Too many bad mid-round picks. Had even 2-3 of the OL's they drafted after round three been solid, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
That's true. But the Giants OLine has been pretty bad since at least 2012, and as others have pointed out, you could go back to 2011 with that claim, if you really wanted to. That's 4 seasons ago. Not like the front office hasn't had sometime now to improve past where we are now. And yes, I know injures have hit the OLine, as well. What else is new? At some point, though, injures or not, we need to see some results from the OLine. Kind of an important unit.
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Prior to the draft what did Reese do about the safety position.
A.Nothing
B.Jack shit
C.Diddly poo
D.All of the above
Ghost, actually the Giants made a major play for the best safety on the free agent market but he chose to stick with the Patriots. As you seem to partially allude to, they drafted the prospect who was widely regarded as the best safety in the draft. They also signed Jeromy Miles, who many on BBI wanted him to sign in March.
That Reese made a major move to sign McCourty is commendable. However his plan B or lack there of is not. We were all pretty stunned when he showed no interest in any other safety. After missing on Mc Courtyard he could have still resigned Rolle to what would have been a reasonable contract. That would have been better than what we are dealing with now.
Like I said, it takes longer than 1-2 years to completely revamp an offensive line and set it up for the long term. Reese is doing it now but it's not quite there and the injuries have only put a bigger dent in that.
He's played 1 preseason game at LT, Eric. I'm hopeful, but he's still a crapshoot at this point.
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In comment 12421202 ghost718 said:
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Prior to the draft what did Reese do about the safety position.
A.Nothing
B.Jack shit
C.Diddly poo
D.All of the above
Ghost, actually the Giants made a major play for the best safety on the free agent market but he chose to stick with the Patriots. As you seem to partially allude to, they drafted the prospect who was widely regarded as the best safety in the draft. They also signed Jeromy Miles, who many on BBI wanted him to sign in March.
That Reese made a major move to sign McCourty is commendable. However his plan B or lack there of is not. We were all pretty stunned when he showed no interest in any other safety. After missing on Mc Courtyard he could have still resigned Rolle to what would have been a reasonable contract. That would have been better than what we are dealing with now.
Give me a list of these stud safeties we could have gotten as a plan B. Fact of the matter is that there's a significant drop off after McCourty, and the guys in that next tier were asking for more than we are willing to pay.
Like I said, it takes longer than 1-2 years to completely revamp an offensive line and set it up for the long term. Reese is doing it now but it's not quite there and the injuries have only put a bigger dent in that.
I'm skeptical as to whether he can do it or not. I know it takes time, but I've been waiting awhile for a good o-line now.
Coughlin came in in 2004 and said he wanted a good o-line. Well, we got it. Then Accorsi retired. I'm confident Coughlin's philosophy never changed.
My opinion is that our season goes however the O-line's season goes.
he was the director of player personnel during those additions.
I get as the GM you get the accountability label, but does anyone of us really believe Accorsi made those decisions solely on his own?
Maybe Reese is just better than his replacement if you know what I mean.
In either case I still stand by waiting for this line to have a chance to play together, which might not even happen.
And Accorsi/Reese didn't build the SBXLII OL overnight. the Giants for a while had one of the worst OL in the league and in 2004 what was widely believed to be the worst OL in the league.
So right there, we probably have 3/5 of our long-term solutions. I don't know what the future holds for Beatty but I do know he's good enough to start at one of the T spots and will help whenever he does get back.
I think we're probably a RG short (maybe Mosley finally puts it together or maybe Hart proves he can swing it)
I don't think the OL is super far from being good though. 3 spots are occupied by young kids who should be able to hold down their spots for a long time. Like I said, I think all we need is one more offseason to really fortify it but I'm not even convinced it'll be terrible this year. Certainly not 2013 bad.
he was the director of player personnel during those additions.
I get as the GM you get the accountability label, but does anyone of us really believe Accorsi made those decisions solely on his own?
Maybe Reese is just better than his replacement if you know what I mean.
In either case I still stand by waiting for this line to have a chance to play together, which might not even happen.
And Accorsi/Reese didn't build the SBXLII OL overnight. the Giants for a while had one of the worst OL in the league and in 2004 what was widely believed to be the worst OL in the league.
It's a slippery slope, I don't know that anymore than whether he was responsible for the guys PEEJ mentioned like Hatch and Wayne Lucier if we want to go down that road.
Whomever the GM/figurehead is, gets the credit as well as the blame.
So right there, we probably have 3/5 of our long-term solutions. I don't know what the future holds for Beatty but I do know he's good enough to start at one of the T spots and will help whenever he does get back.
I think we're probably a RG short (maybe Mosley finally puts it together or maybe Hart proves he can swing it)
I don't think the OL is super far from being good though. 3 spots are occupied by young kids who should be able to hold down their spots for a long time. Like I said, I think all we need is one more offseason to really fortify it but I'm not even convinced it'll be terrible this year. Certainly not 2013 bad.
But how long do we have? We need them to be good starting right now. This is Eli's third act and who knows what the future holds at QB in 4 years or so.
There will be growing pains, but this is not a bad group. The Thompson injury hurts.
From NYG: Jon Beason said Brandon Meriweather "will help us tremendously." Meriweather said, "I know I am" still Pro Bowl-caliber player.
Paul Schwartz @NYPost_Schwartz 2m2 minutes ago Manhattan, NY
New Giant Brandon Meriweather and Jon Beason played together 4 years at Miami. Beason: So to me, its about putting the band back together.
Beason on Meriweather: "Hes going to help us tremendously, veteran, another voice back there ... going to make our secondary a lot better.
Testing players out means they are getting a legitimate look. And no, I never thought they are close to making set decisions week 1 of training camp. If you want to make straw men arguments to make yourself feel better, go ahead. You got caught with your pants down for making a completely uninformed, shithead comment on Flowers. Probably won't be the last either. Your ass should be charging me rent for the space I'm occupying in your head after you mentioned my name in some other thread. Go fuck yourself kindly.
Brandon Meriweather has come catching up to do: "Im going to get with coach every day until I get it the way I knew every other defense.
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I think it's safe to say Pugh is a piece to go forward with. I think Richburg will more than hold his own at C. I think Flowers will be legit.
So right there, we probably have 3/5 of our long-term solutions. I don't know what the future holds for Beatty but I do know he's good enough to start at one of the T spots and will help whenever he does get back.
I think we're probably a RG short (maybe Mosley finally puts it together or maybe Hart proves he can swing it)
I don't think the OL is super far from being good though. 3 spots are occupied by young kids who should be able to hold down their spots for a long time. Like I said, I think all we need is one more offseason to really fortify it but I'm not even convinced it'll be terrible this year. Certainly not 2013 bad.
But how long do we have? We need them to be good starting right now. This is Eli's third act and who knows what the future holds at QB in 4 years or so.
I honestly don't think the line is even going to be that bad this year. I think it'll be "ok".. as long as we don't get the injury bug there.
I think next year it will turn into a strength again.
The linebacker and safety were teammates for four seasons at the University of Miami (2003-06). They share a birthday, Jan. 14. The two players were selected 24th (Meriweather) and 25th in the 2007 NFL Draft.
And now theyve reunited. The Giants today signed Meriweather, a nine-year veteran and two-time Pro Bowler, to shore up the back of their defense, which has been depleted by injuries.
Once a Cane (Miami Hurricane), always a Cane, Beason said after practice. So to me, its about putting the band back together. We played all four years together, he was All-American, he was the quarterback of our defense and got everybody lined up. Extremely intelligent player, could be coaching one day. Understands fronts, run fits, coverage, entry angles, how to break on the ball. Thats how you get big hits, taking the proper steps and anticipation. Hes going to help us tremendously, a veteran, another voice back there, and I think its going to make our secondary a lot better.
Thats my brother, Meriweather said. Its like going to a family reunion. Its like getting back with your brother. In his and my case, getting back with my little brother.
Meriweather was the New England Patriots first-round draft choice in 2007. Beason was chosen moments later by the Carolina Panthers.
We had an ongoing bet who was going to go first, and he one-upped me, Beason said. It was all good.
I beat him, he knows that, Meriweather said. I actually thought he was going to go first, but yeah, I beat him.
Meriweather spent four seasons with the Patriots and has also played for Chicago and Washington. He was a Pro Bowler in 2009-10. So was Beason, who was traded here on Oct. 4, 2013.
Of course, the Giants are far less interested in their friendship than they are in how well Meriweather can play. With Nat Berhe (calf), Landon Collins (knee) and Mykkele Thompson (Achilles tendon, out for the season) sidelined, they need help at safety.
"Im excited, man, Meriweather said. Anytime you can come to a great organization, youve always got to be excited and ready to help.
Im going to go in and Im going to put my all into it. Im going to get with coach every day until I get it the way I knew every other defense.
Asked if he is still the player who was selected to two Pro Bowls, Meriweather said, I know I am.
Meriweather was thrown into the fire in the full-pads practice, taking far more reps than he anticipated.
They actually threw me in and I didnt know I was going to get that many reps at all, he said. I thought I was going to do some running around, but not that.
Its always good to learn on the fly. Its always good just to learn, just throw them in and let them sink or swim. Thats the way you learn.
The so called significant drop off after McCourty has to be a better option than Meriweather.So while you're sitting there drawing lines in the sand,coming up with excuses not to sign a guy.This is what you're looking at after one preseason game.
As for the safeties I have to admit that I am more confident in this group than I expected. Honestly I thought Bennett Jackson had a solid chance of making the practice squad. I didn't expect him to flash this early. It is quite impressive that he has flashed so much being despite the fact that he is coming off microfracture surgery and switching positions. I wonder how high his ceiling is being that he started out as a wide receiver at Notre Dame before switching to cornerback. Collins is going to make some mistakes but I like what we are hearing from the coaches and players. Cooper Taylor has actually stayed healthy and he could finally be ready to contribute. Let's hope Berhe returns soon to fight for the final safety spot.
So right there, we probably have 3/5 of our long-term solutions. I don't know what the future holds for Beatty but I do know he's good enough to start at one of the T spots and will help whenever he does get back.
I think we're probably a RG short (maybe Mosley finally puts it together or maybe Hart proves he can swing it)
I don't think the OL is super far from being good though. 3 spots are occupied by young kids who should be able to hold down their spots for a long time. Like I said, I think all we need is one more offseason to really fortify it but I'm not even convinced it'll be terrible this year. Certainly not 2013 bad.
Pugh was bad last year, good the year before. Richburg has nothing but draft status to show for himself so far. Flowers we can hope for based on his draft status.
There's a lot of uncertainty with this line, even the supposed sure things.
- I like the signing.
As far as the rest is concerned, Reese has thrown a lot of resources at the OL, including many high draft picks, and FAs like Baas and Schwartz. But as somebody said, we're missing that fourth or fifth round gem like Diehl. Reese has instead given us McCants, Brewer, Petrus, Herman, and Mosley. Baas got injured, but we overpaid because he was the only FA C available. Whether that happens with Schwartz is still an open question. Reese also drafted David Wilson instead of Cordy Glenn. But Pugh, Richburg, and it looks like Flowers were very good picks.
As far as the rest is concerned, Reese has thrown a lot of resources at the OL, including many high draft picks, and FAs like Baas and Schwartz. But as somebody said, we're missing that fourth or fifth round gem like Diehl. Reese has instead given us McCants, Brewer, Petrus, Herman, and Mosley. Baas got injured, but we overpaid because he was the only FA C available. Whether that happens with Schwartz is still an open question. Reese also drafted David Wilson instead of Cordy Glenn. But Pugh, Richburg, and it looks like Flowers were very good picks.
Forgot to add that Reese also drafted Beatty, who has played well.
We've drafted five safeties in the past few years and haven't gotten a starter yet. Maybe this is the year, assuming one of these guys can be healthy, for fucks sake.
It wasn't until TC arrived in 2004 that the Giants really rebuilt the OL with Snee and McKenzie and O'Hara.
HEY! Don't you DARE forget Tam Hopkins!
Even the sorry 70s we didn't sink this low.
With 3 safeties out they probably didn't even have enough bodies to get through the drills.
If you have to rush someone in off the street would you rather it be a rookie who knows nothing about the NFL or a guy who has been around for 8 years and knows how to run pro defenses?
He's washed up and won't be seeing time come the season.
This is no different that wanting to sign Long for the OL. Same idea.
3 sacks, 3 forced fumbles and 55 tackles in 10 games last year.
If he can stay on the field, which obviously is the question, there's no reason he can't contribute. 31 is old, but there is currently little evidence to prove he's "washed up."
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He's washed up and won't be seeing time come the season.
3 sacks, 3 forced fumbles and 55 tackles in 10 games last year.
If he can stay on the field, which obviously is the question, there's no reason he can't contribute. 31 is old, but there is currently little evidence to prove he's "washed up."
I could very well be wrong but as I said, I think this is a short term move. Yes, he made some plays last year but BM is a huge liability in coverage. He doesn't have the speed or the change of direction skills to consistently stay with receivers.
Maybe our safeties will be so decimated that he's forced into a SS role but my guess is he stays behind Collins and Jackson as long as they're healthy.
With 3 safeties out they probably didn't even have enough bodies to get through the drills.
If you have to rush someone in off the street would you rather it be a rookie who knows nothing about the NFL or a guy who has been around for 8 years and knows how to run pro defenses?
He's washed up and won't be seeing time come the season.
Practice body? Merriweather is going to play in games that matter.
I know I am among the best. - ( New Window )
And the people on this thread are worried about Meriweather's bad rep?
Plus, it's not like he smoked weed a few times...sigh.
Who would you have expected to be available in mid-August?
Despite the pure propoganda on this board about the ol let me posit:
Investing high drafr picks and desperate fa signings after a position.already stinks is not investing a lot in a position. When Reese set to rebuild the line it already stunk. He.misread his 2013 team so bad he put up.s super.bowl clock and had the nerve to draft a qb in the third round.
For all these investments there still.is get one pro bowl player on the line and arguably oy question marks.
The giants have failed miserably so far on that front. Will this year improve maybe, as they did belatedly address it. But they are still.paper thin there and have rampant question marks.
The o line has been a failure in preparation for three years. Its svhocking people refute this by arguing resources were invested. Wow they let a unit sink to the bottom of the league then scrambled to fix it. How wonderful!
not against bringing in a veteran safety to fill the mykkele Thomson predictable injury spot
That's exactly what it is. There's literally no other way to define it. Complain about the timing all you want, but two 1sts and a 2nd is investing a lot in a position group.
He's a headhunter, but he's a smart player who makes plays. He might not make the team, but you don't normally find a 31-year old former Pro Bowl player available in mid-August.
Add in Beatty at RT, and a RG (maybe Mosley) and we have something. So we can bitch about what happened in 2011-2013, and we do, but I think if you do that you should also acknowledge the work that has been done since then. In fact if Mosley is the RG, that means we will have 4 of the 5 positions manned by top draft picks over the past 4 years. That isn't bad.
If he's taking meaningful snaps this season the defense will be in real trouble. Here's to hoping Collins and Jackson stay healthy and learn the NFL game. They're the future.
Gettleman's departure is the story no one talks about.
He's a headhunter, but he's a smart player who makes plays. He might not make the team, but you don't normally find a 31-year old former Pro Bowl player available in mid-August.
+1
I think maybe personality is coming into play, because it seems like a shrewd move.
Showed the young players how to play at a high level and still had enough left in the tank to make plays at crucial times. RW finishes the Cowboys ....
http://www.giants.com/videos/videos/RW-McQuarters-intercepts-Tony-Romo-in-Playoffs/a0397b54-25f8-41cd-80b7-d8bc752fafe8
and Miles and Jackson.
At this point, the rest are very inexperienced and/or injury prone - they'd really have to do a lot to compel them keeping 5 safeties.
Showed the young players how to play at a high level and still had enough left in the tank to make plays at crucial times. RW finishes the Cowboys ....
http://www.giants.com/videos/videos/RW-McQuarters-intercepts-Tony-Romo-in-Playoffs/a0397b54-25f8-41cd-80b7-d8bc752fafe8
I like this line of thinking, but I can't help but feel like Meriweather is a very different sort of football player than those three respected vets. Grant and Madison were leaders. I'm not sure that's the case here. Meriweather seems like he might be a knucklehead.
Signed with Cleveland. Im a big Ross fan. alwyas have been. very very underrated and under-appreciated player. Always thought he was a much better player then Webster.
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All were basically done when they came here, but served not only to solidify their positions when they came here, but ...
Showed the young players how to play at a high level and still had enough left in the tank to make plays at crucial times. RW finishes the Cowboys ....
http://www.giants.com/videos/videos/RW-McQuarters-intercepts-Tony-Romo-in-Playoffs/a0397b54-25f8-41cd-80b7-d8bc752fafe8
I like this line of thinking, but I can't help but feel like Meriweather is a very different sort of football player than those three respected vets. Grant and Madison were leaders. I'm not sure that's the case here. Meriweather seems like he might be a knucklehead.
On the other hand, he could benefit by being in more stable organization with a strong head coach. Could go either way. Bottom line is they had to do something and he seems to have been they best available option.
I also have always liked Aaron Ross, not sure what has has left in the tank. He does know the Spas system though. I had no idea he was out there still.
http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2015/08/justin_currie_gets_1st_team_reps_larry_donnell_loo.html
My take - Starters; Meriweather, Collins
Reserves: Currie, Taylor
Safety/Slot man; Jackson
Odd man out - Miles