He's not shooting himself in the foot because if he could he would of done 40 times already. He is the true Teflon Don. Let's say the field gets down to 4, who are they going to rally around to knock him out?
other than the manufactured ones (between Christie and Paul for example). There was just questions lobbed at the candidates. It was awful. Fox did a terrible job.
Actually, the Christie - Huckabee discussion of entitlements was one of the better moments of the evening. That's the kind of thing I'm looking forward to in these events and rarely see.
RE: And to be honest, Trump was right about the bleeding Â
and golf courses in the world. One day if you get to NYC, stop into the Trump Tower. What i like about him is he never takes vacations, he will work 360 out of 365 days a year and not end up on a ranch in Texas or Martha's Vineyard for the month of August.
Nothing wrong with Marthas Vinyard and golfing at Farm neck if your the president. B
but I heard his son Rric a little while back on the Opie and Jim Norton show say that his dad loves to work and doesn't like to take a vacation. Whenever they went on one he couldn't get comfortable and couldn't wait to get back to work
They already ran with an article where his wife said he raped her (during their divorce) and she comes out, says it's not true and that he'd be a great President.
He touched the third rail of immigration and his support ballooned.
He said John McCain wasn't a war hero, again, no issue.
He attacked Megyn Kelly with a sexist rant about her bleeding, doesn't seem to have had an effect.
Everyone knows about his bankruptcies, that he donated to Hillary, that he said he wanted single payer, and that hasn't stopped him.
I've said all along that Trump and some of the other non-establishment candidates are the people's way of saying Fuck You to the establishment government, political consultants and the media. People seem to be responding more to his way of saying things than the details of what he is saying. Until they find someone who better represents what they think/feel, Trump will remain.
I think what is resonating with his followers and other Americans are that he is precisely describing what is wrong with our system, in that our pre-chosen leaders do not serve the people, but rather corporate and big government interests (military, internal).
He has repeatedly told every American that will listen that our politicians are bought and they do not serve us. What he does is up to imagination and his policies reveal, but I think it suggests that Americans are tired of playing the fool, as they know these guys are just a bunch of liars and snake oil salesmen. He is stepping up and Americans have a choice. You see exactly how cowardly many of the Republicans are in that they will not even defend themselves as they know they are stooges to their puppet masters and handlers. They want their sugar daddies to fix it for them. I think he has a great chance if he can survive some type of "hidden threat" to him. Sanders will never win as he won't fly in the South.
Heck, I could make 20 attack ads against Trump just out comments by him that are now on You-Tube.
There is some game theory going on here. Why should candidate X use his powder against Trump while he is popular, with 16 other candidates in the field? Wait until this gets whittled down, and watch the knives come out, along with lots of media buys.
Also, some people here are confused over the difference between populist and conservative. Trump appeals to some populists, but not to conservative ones, and especially not to the Religious Right or true fiscal conservatives/Tea Partiers. Ultimately, these groups will cluster against him when it matters.
And, when it gets whittled down, his lack of political experience will become glaringly obvious. Obama has been awful in dealing with Congress, but Trump has no proof that he would be even as good. That stuff matters.
is that if politicians are bought and paid for they are bought and paid for BY PEOPLE LIKE TRUMP. Trump can rail against that but it's part and parcel of his business model - pursuing favorable tax treatment and other carrots from government.
I get the anti-Establishment narrative, and I understand that there are lessons to be learned from this campaign whether it peters out in a month or in a year. But at the end of the day Trump is a clownish fucking buffoon, and everything about his campaign is a despicable troll job perpetrated on the American public. Trump is Rich Houston if Rich Houston had a team of sycophants to follow him around and cheer him on.
RE: Glad to see rich infecting other threads besides football again... Â
The ideas once languished at the edge of Republican politics, confined to think tanks and no-hope bills on Capitol Hill. To solve the problem of illegal immigration, truly drastic measures were necessary: Deport the undocumented en masse. Seize the money they try to send home. Deny citizenship to their U.S.-born children.
Now, all of those ideas have been embraced by Donald Trump, the front-runner in the Republican presidential race, who has followed up weeks of doom-saying about illegal immigrants with a call for an unprecedented crackdown. On Monday, Trump’s hard turn was already influencing the rest of the GOP field. In Iowa, Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker also began to call for a wall on the U.S.-Mexico border, echoing a longtime Trump demand. Walker said the separation barrier between Israel and the Palestinian territories is proof that the concept could work here.
Walker also seemed to echo Trump by questioning “birthright citizenship,” the constitutional provision that grants citizenship to anyone born in this country. After a reporter asked if birthright citizenship should be ended, Walker said: “I think that’s something we should — yeah, absolutely, going forward.”
But — in a sign of how quickly Trump has changed the terms of this race — Walker had difficulty clearly articulating where exactly he stands on the issue, wanting to steal some of Trump’s momentum but not quite sure to what extent. He went on to say that if the United States enforces the laws it already has, that alone might take care of the problem.
The challenge in a 17 person field with an outlyer in first place is to maintain your own positions while surviving long enough to take on the outlyer directly later on.
That isn't easy, and it's one of the reasons Trump is skating, for now.
the guy to do the things he says he wants done. A lot of what he is saying I agree with. I am sick of boiler plate pols including HRC. If there was someone with the skills to implement some of what he is talking about, I'm on board
I've been agreeing with you right down the line. I think people who are underestimating are downplaying Trumps chances are in for a surprise.
This is a brilliant political analyst who, better than anyone else I have read, adapts his outlook for changing media practices and changing conditions.
That is one of the reasons I like him, you cant buy him, he doesn't owe anyone"favor
Well the same was said about Bloomberg -- He was self financed so he didn't owe anyone anything but the wealthy real estate and finance guys are his friends and his fellow plutocrats
so in the end Bloomberg did their bidding and nothing really changed in NYC except it got more expensive for poor and middle class to live here.
That is one of the reasons I like him, you cant buy him, he doesn't owe anyone"favor
Well the same was said about Bloomberg -- He was self financed so he didn't owe anyone anything but the wealthy real estate and finance guys are his friends and his fellow plutocrats
so in the end Bloomberg did their bidding and nothing really changed in NYC except it got more expensive for poor and middle class to live here.
I think Bloomberg was a putz, but the plutocrat adopted a strategy of not fucking up what he was handed, one of the safest major cities in America.
A very strong anti-immigration stance can get you wins in some primaries, and Trump is perfectly positioned to take advantage up that because he doesn't give a rat's ass right now about moderates, or Democrats, or independents or Hispanics. And in the general election, that stance gets you killed--if you make it that far, which he won't.
In the latest NBC News/WSJ poll, 32% favor find and deport, right about at Trump's ceiling. No poll shows a majority agreeing with you or Trump, Eric. And with Trump now wanting to cut back on legal immigration, too, he is going to get a war from the Chamber of Commerce types.
At some point, it isn't going to just be about policy talking points, either. Trump is going to have to show actual knowledge of policy and modern political history, and he can't learn any of that quickly enough. Link - ( New Window )
if the Obama supporter money is already going to commie Bernie, than he is already sold into the most utterly breathtaking hypocracy you will ever see.
which should not be surprising, since that is what they do.
Trump was asked how he will deport illegal immigrant children... Â
His attack on birthright citizenship ignores the critical milestone that was the 14th Amendment in treating African Americans as people and not property.
The support for Trump by some "conservatives" is curious because I doubt Trump has much respect for the Constitution. The same Republicans who chide Obama for his "Imperial Presidency" (and not without good cause) don't think Trump would be an "Imperial President"? He'd walk all over the Constitution too.
Time. Once other candidates drop out of the race, the support will be distributed more against Trump than for Trump. Trump has the lead right now because he is still talking in shallow waters among 17 total candidates and currently has the most people who consider him their favorite.
But as the field shrinks, and the questions and examinations become more specific and focused, and when "electability" becomes a more prominent factor, Trump will fade away.
His attack on birthright citizenship ignores the critical milestone that was the 14th Amendment in treating African Americans as people and not property.
I do think it needs to be looked at. This is being abused by not only those coming over the border, but there is actually birth tourism where pregnant women come here from Asia and stay to give birth so their kid is an American citizen and then they also can stay. Oh, and they also go to a hospital and pay nothing for the care they get there. Link - ( New Window )
"“Raising the prevailing wage paid to H-1Bs will force companies to give these coveted entry-level jobs to the existing domestic pool of unemployed native and immigrant workers in the U.S., instead of flying in cheaper workers from overseas. This will improve the number of black, Hispanic and female workers in Silicon Valley who have been passed over in favor of the H-1B program. Mark Zuckerberg’s personal Senator, Marco Rubio, has a bill to triple H-1Bs that would decimate women and minorities.”
Sorry but Trump is exactly correct the drive for more H-1B Visa's isn't because of labor shortage it is about driving the cost of developers down.
That Trump stands no chance at ultimately winning the nomination (and will eventually run as a 3rd party, but that's another matter). With that said however, there are a couple things worth noting that give me at least a seconds worth of pause....
1) in each poll that comes out, those favorability/unfavorability raings continue to inch their way upward and expand where you think his ceiling can be. I just saw a CNN/ORC poll today that put his favorability up to 60% among republicans. The recent FOX poll had 52% or republicans saying he wasn't qualified to be president. That was around 80% a couple months ago.
2) I am wholly unimpressed by the political skills of his competition, and his presence in this race makes their boring/charisma-less presence stand out even more. Jeb Bush is a total stiff, he may be more qualified than his brother but he's not half the politician. Scott Walker is bland as it gets. Carson the same. Ted Cruz is obnoxious and loud, but not necessarily skillful in the way I mean. I think Marco Rubio has some skills but he just isn't catching on with republican voters it seems. The force of Trumps personality just overshadows this field, I can't peg the one I see them rallying around.
That Trump stands no chance at ultimately winning the nomination (and will eventually run as a 3rd party, but that's another matter). With that said however, there are a couple things worth noting that give me at least a seconds worth of pause....
1) in each poll that comes out, those favorability/unfavorability raings continue to inch their way upward and expand where you think his ceiling can be. I just saw a CNN/ORC poll today that put his favorability up to 60% among republicans. The recent FOX poll had 52% or republicans saying he wasn't qualified to be president. That was around 80% a couple months ago.
2) I am wholly unimpressed by the political skills of his competition, and his presence in this race makes their boring/charisma-less presence stand out even more. Jeb Bush is a total stiff, he may be more qualified than his brother but he's not half the politician. Scott Walker is bland as it gets. Carson the same. Ted Cruz is obnoxious and loud, but not necessarily skillful in the way I mean. I think Marco Rubio has some skills but he just isn't catching on with republican voters it seems. The force of Trumps personality just overshadows this field, I can't peg the one I see them rallying around.
still very early in the game. Remember Hermain Cain?
I'm going to vote for her, but damn Hillary continues to be so bad. Anyone see her trying to deliver that snap chat joke the other day? Cringeworthy execution. She is just so lucky she has a free ride in the primary and a big demographic edge in the general, because she's just not good at this campaigning game. The idea of her candidacy has always been better on paper than in practice. She has already lost once as a big favorite because she wasn't built for this. If Elizabeth Warren was in this race she would murder her
These Herman Cain and Michelle Bachman comparisons to Trump that people keep making are total false equivalences for a number of reasons. Neither was ever in as good a spot as Trump has been for any real span of time, Trump has led for 2 months by growing margins. Neither possessed any ability to take a punch and their candidacies crumbled at the first scrutiny. Neither ever possessed such huge leads in certain key topics like "dealing with the economy" where Trump has like a 35 point edge on the next closest polling republican, Trump kills it in that area even amongst people who don't like him
I don't think he will win the nomination but he has already separated himself from the again and Bachman comparisons
that I or anyone else has seen in their lifetime. Will it last? I don't know.
Will it grow? I don't know. Can he he be taken down? I don't know.I do know that the people of this country to a large extent are fed up with politics as usual and are looking for something.Is Donald Trump that something? I don't know
that I or anyone else has seen in their lifetime. Will it last? I don't know.
Will it grow? I don't know. Can he he be taken down? I don't know.I do know that the people of this country to a large extent are fed up with politics as usual and are looking for something.Is Donald Trump that something? I don't know
Unless it's lasts until the convention it's nothing more novel than McCarthy in '68, McGovern in '72 or Carter in '76. In fact until the election debates next year it's not too different from Perot in '92.
Trump can take popular positions that others can't Â
It's part of what makes him so dangerous to the party. Trump isn't dependent upon the establishment for money or attention so he can say whatever he wants even if it pisses him off and it allows him to say things that appeal to the base but not to the elites.
Two examples:
Immigration - This is the most well known since it's his primary position. After the 2012 election the Republican leaders tried to pass comprehensive immigration reform to take it off the table but they folded in the face of a revolt by the base. They know that this immigration talk dooms their chances in this election cycle but there's nothing they can do about it. At first the candidates were trying to toe the line but now that Trump has started throwing red meat all over the place this plan is falling apart.
Entitlements - This is the bigger deal since this is THE issue that matters most to the donors. They want entitlement cuts (social security, medicare, medicaid, obamacare, etc) and tax cuts for themselves. This is the position that has to be toed by all candidates if they want any money. The problem is that most Republicans don't actually want to cut entitlements. Normally this isn't an issue since no candidate will go against donors on this issue. Trump isn't afraid to defend the entitlements and that will be a popular position.
This dynamic makes him very different than candidates like Cain, Bachmann or whatever looney flavor of the month has come before. While people pretend that it's his bluster that's popular, it's actually his positions that are popular.
A very strong anti-immigration stance can get you wins in some primaries, and Trump is perfectly positioned to take advantage up that because he doesn't give a rat's ass right now about moderates, or Democrats, or independents or Hispanics. And in the general election, that stance gets you killed--if you make it that far, which he won't.
In the latest NBC News/WSJ poll, 32% favor find and deport, right about at Trump's ceiling. No poll shows a majority agreeing with you or Trump, Eric. And with Trump now wanting to cut back on legal immigration, too, he is going to get a war from the Chamber of Commerce types.
At some point, it isn't going to just be about policy talking points, either. Trump is going to have to show actual knowledge of policy and modern political history, and he can't learn any of that quickly enough. Link - ( New Window )
Who says? This stuff about candidates having to be policy wonks started when Clinton was running and the pundits and media were so enamored about his thoughts on policy. I don't think anyone ever accused FDR or Truman or JFK or LBJ of being policy wonks.
Timing is everything and Trump is benefiting from timing. The pundits and media who love these policy debates have beclowned and discredited themselves for a few years now and the news is filled with the stumbles and trips of government. It may be that broad policy statements and the promise of administrative ability are enough.
he ran as an Independent from day one in Feb 1992 when he announced.I don't remember an outsider in my lifetime dominate the
polls of an established party for 2 months.
How long has it been since someone told you you were an idiot?
Actually, the Christie - Huckabee discussion of entitlements was one of the better moments of the evening. That's the kind of thing I'm looking forward to in these events and rarely see.
Wow, I haven't heard that since 7th grade. I didn't know you made it that far in school Rich.
Quote:
Blood answer. Do you trust anything that can bleed for 5 days and still live?
How long has it been since someone told you you were an idiot?
Last time I saw that was on a Law & Order episode. Eventually I feel like you will inspire one. Not sure in what capacity, but it seems likely.
Nothing wrong with Marthas Vinyard and golfing at Farm neck if your the president. B
They already ran with an article where his wife said he raped her (during their divorce) and she comes out, says it's not true and that he'd be a great President.
He touched the third rail of immigration and his support ballooned.
He said John McCain wasn't a war hero, again, no issue.
He attacked Megyn Kelly with a sexist rant about her bleeding, doesn't seem to have had an effect.
Everyone knows about his bankruptcies, that he donated to Hillary, that he said he wanted single payer, and that hasn't stopped him.
I've said all along that Trump and some of the other non-establishment candidates are the people's way of saying Fuck You to the establishment government, political consultants and the media. People seem to be responding more to his way of saying things than the details of what he is saying. Until they find someone who better represents what they think/feel, Trump will remain.
I think what is resonating with his followers and other Americans are that he is precisely describing what is wrong with our system, in that our pre-chosen leaders do not serve the people, but rather corporate and big government interests (military, internal).
He has repeatedly told every American that will listen that our politicians are bought and they do not serve us. What he does is up to imagination and his policies reveal, but I think it suggests that Americans are tired of playing the fool, as they know these guys are just a bunch of liars and snake oil salesmen. He is stepping up and Americans have a choice. You see exactly how cowardly many of the Republicans are in that they will not even defend themselves as they know they are stooges to their puppet masters and handlers. They want their sugar daddies to fix it for them. I think he has a great chance if he can survive some type of "hidden threat" to him. Sanders will never win as he won't fly in the South.
There is some game theory going on here. Why should candidate X use his powder against Trump while he is popular, with 16 other candidates in the field? Wait until this gets whittled down, and watch the knives come out, along with lots of media buys.
Also, some people here are confused over the difference between populist and conservative. Trump appeals to some populists, but not to conservative ones, and especially not to the Religious Right or true fiscal conservatives/Tea Partiers. Ultimately, these groups will cluster against him when it matters.
And, when it gets whittled down, his lack of political experience will become glaringly obvious. Obama has been awful in dealing with Congress, but Trump has no proof that he would be even as good. That stuff matters.
Really.
I get the anti-Establishment narrative, and I understand that there are lessons to be learned from this campaign whether it peters out in a month or in a year. But at the end of the day Trump is a clownish fucking buffoon, and everything about his campaign is a despicable troll job perpetrated on the American public. Trump is Rich Houston if Rich Houston had a team of sycophants to follow him around and cheer him on.
Lmao
Now, all of those ideas have been embraced by Donald Trump, the front-runner in the Republican presidential race, who has followed up weeks of doom-saying about illegal immigrants with a call for an unprecedented crackdown. On Monday, Trump’s hard turn was already influencing the rest of the GOP field. In Iowa, Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker also began to call for a wall on the U.S.-Mexico border, echoing a longtime Trump demand. Walker said the separation barrier between Israel and the Palestinian territories is proof that the concept could work here.
Walker also seemed to echo Trump by questioning “birthright citizenship,” the constitutional provision that grants citizenship to anyone born in this country. After a reporter asked if birthright citizenship should be ended, Walker said: “I think that’s something we should — yeah, absolutely, going forward.”
But — in a sign of how quickly Trump has changed the terms of this race — Walker had difficulty clearly articulating where exactly he stands on the issue, wanting to steal some of Trump’s momentum but not quite sure to what extent. He went on to say that if the United States enforces the laws it already has, that alone might take care of the problem.
Put on your right turn signal. - ( New Window )
That isn't easy, and it's one of the reasons Trump is skating, for now.
I've been agreeing with you right down the line. I think people who are underestimating are downplaying Trumps chances are in for a surprise.
His logic in this case just makes sense.
Well the same was said about Bloomberg -- He was self financed so he didn't owe anyone anything but the wealthy real estate and finance guys are his friends and his fellow plutocrats
so in the end Bloomberg did their bidding and nothing really changed in NYC except it got more expensive for poor and middle class to live here.
Quote:
That is one of the reasons I like him, you cant buy him, he doesn't owe anyone"favor
Well the same was said about Bloomberg -- He was self financed so he didn't owe anyone anything but the wealthy real estate and finance guys are his friends and his fellow plutocrats
so in the end Bloomberg did their bidding and nothing really changed in NYC except it got more expensive for poor and middle class to live here.
I think Bloomberg was a putz, but the plutocrat adopted a strategy of not fucking up what he was handed, one of the safest major cities in America.
Right or wrong, he's the only sincere anti-illegal immigration candidate. And I think that does cross party lines.
The immigration policies of this country for the last few decades are radically changing this country. This is the backlash.
In the latest NBC News/WSJ poll, 32% favor find and deport, right about at Trump's ceiling. No poll shows a majority agreeing with you or Trump, Eric. And with Trump now wanting to cut back on legal immigration, too, he is going to get a war from the Chamber of Commerce types.
At some point, it isn't going to just be about policy talking points, either. Trump is going to have to show actual knowledge of policy and modern political history, and he can't learn any of that quickly enough.
Link - ( New Window )
and pray to [you know who] that the not too many people are dumb enough to vote for the damn communist from Vt.
which should not be surprising, since that is what they do.
His attack on birthright citizenship ignores the critical milestone that was the 14th Amendment in treating African Americans as people and not property.
But as the field shrinks, and the questions and examinations become more specific and focused, and when "electability" becomes a more prominent factor, Trump will fade away.
Well, that's certainly shorter than having to write a rebuttal.
Quote:
on his helicopter.
His attack on birthright citizenship ignores the critical milestone that was the 14th Amendment in treating African Americans as people and not property.
I do think it needs to be looked at. This is being abused by not only those coming over the border, but there is actually birth tourism where pregnant women come here from Asia and stay to give birth so their kid is an American citizen and then they also can stay. Oh, and they also go to a hospital and pay nothing for the care they get there.
Link - ( New Window )
Sorry but Trump is exactly correct the drive for more H-1B Visa's isn't because of labor shortage it is about driving the cost of developers down.
1) in each poll that comes out, those favorability/unfavorability raings continue to inch their way upward and expand where you think his ceiling can be. I just saw a CNN/ORC poll today that put his favorability up to 60% among republicans. The recent FOX poll had 52% or republicans saying he wasn't qualified to be president. That was around 80% a couple months ago.
2) I am wholly unimpressed by the political skills of his competition, and his presence in this race makes their boring/charisma-less presence stand out even more. Jeb Bush is a total stiff, he may be more qualified than his brother but he's not half the politician. Scott Walker is bland as it gets. Carson the same. Ted Cruz is obnoxious and loud, but not necessarily skillful in the way I mean. I think Marco Rubio has some skills but he just isn't catching on with republican voters it seems. The force of Trumps personality just overshadows this field, I can't peg the one I see them rallying around.
1) in each poll that comes out, those favorability/unfavorability raings continue to inch their way upward and expand where you think his ceiling can be. I just saw a CNN/ORC poll today that put his favorability up to 60% among republicans. The recent FOX poll had 52% or republicans saying he wasn't qualified to be president. That was around 80% a couple months ago.
2) I am wholly unimpressed by the political skills of his competition, and his presence in this race makes their boring/charisma-less presence stand out even more. Jeb Bush is a total stiff, he may be more qualified than his brother but he's not half the politician. Scott Walker is bland as it gets. Carson the same. Ted Cruz is obnoxious and loud, but not necessarily skillful in the way I mean. I think Marco Rubio has some skills but he just isn't catching on with republican voters it seems. The force of Trumps personality just overshadows this field, I can't peg the one I see them rallying around.
still very early in the game. Remember Hermain Cain?
I don't think he will win the nomination but he has already separated himself from the again and Bachman comparisons
Will it grow? I don't know. Can he he be taken down? I don't know.I do know that the people of this country to a large extent are fed up with politics as usual and are looking for something.Is Donald Trump that something? I don't know
Will it grow? I don't know. Can he he be taken down? I don't know.I do know that the people of this country to a large extent are fed up with politics as usual and are looking for something.Is Donald Trump that something? I don't know
Unless it's lasts until the convention it's nothing more novel than McCarthy in '68, McGovern in '72 or Carter in '76. In fact until the election debates next year it's not too different from Perot in '92.
Two examples:
Immigration - This is the most well known since it's his primary position. After the 2012 election the Republican leaders tried to pass comprehensive immigration reform to take it off the table but they folded in the face of a revolt by the base. They know that this immigration talk dooms their chances in this election cycle but there's nothing they can do about it. At first the candidates were trying to toe the line but now that Trump has started throwing red meat all over the place this plan is falling apart.
Entitlements - This is the bigger deal since this is THE issue that matters most to the donors. They want entitlement cuts (social security, medicare, medicaid, obamacare, etc) and tax cuts for themselves. This is the position that has to be toed by all candidates if they want any money. The problem is that most Republicans don't actually want to cut entitlements. Normally this isn't an issue since no candidate will go against donors on this issue. Trump isn't afraid to defend the entitlements and that will be a popular position.
This dynamic makes him very different than candidates like Cain, Bachmann or whatever looney flavor of the month has come before. While people pretend that it's his bluster that's popular, it's actually his positions that are popular.
In the latest NBC News/WSJ poll, 32% favor find and deport, right about at Trump's ceiling. No poll shows a majority agreeing with you or Trump, Eric. And with Trump now wanting to cut back on legal immigration, too, he is going to get a war from the Chamber of Commerce types.
At some point, it isn't going to just be about policy talking points, either. Trump is going to have to show actual knowledge of policy and modern political history, and he can't learn any of that quickly enough. Link - ( New Window )
Timing is everything and Trump is benefiting from timing. The pundits and media who love these policy debates have beclowned and discredited themselves for a few years now and the news is filled with the stumbles and trips of government. It may be that broad policy statements and the promise of administrative ability are enough.
polls of an established party for 2 months.