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Is the Oline really that bad?

Lowell : 8/18/2015 10:43 am
I though it was but then I happened to check back to last year. In the first five games Jennings average 4.3 yards per run. Then he was hurt and Williams averaged 3.3 for the balance of the year. Conclusion: Despite this crappy oline. Jennings, a decent runner but by no means an impact player, was able to have an acceptable average; an average that dropped off significantly after he went down. Conclusion: Maybe the oline took more heat than was warranted.

Now as to pass blocking. You keep hearing people say, "Eli's gonna get killed this year." Did he get killed last year? I noticed that in the final eight games the Giants gave up only 11 sacks and only one sack in the final two games against two top teams in sacks, the Rams and Eagles. Now you might say that Eli just unloaded quickly hence the low number of sacks, and he probably did in many cases, but the team averaged 25 points per game of offense during that eight game span in spite of a non existent run game. These were mostly close games so don't think these were simply "garbage time" points. 25 points a game would have tied them for 10th overall in points.

I'm not saying that the concerns about the oline are misplaced only that with a little luck (Flowers develops, a right side solution is found), some good health and maybe an Evan Mathis this could be an okay oline. Add in Beatty's return later this year, the addition of Vereen, improvement from the runners and the oline could in time actually be seen as a plus.

So last year, even with a crappy center, a rookie LG and John Jerry this line actually did enough to win more games than six if only they had a decent running back and a decent defense. There are certainly concerns about this year's oline but I think it may turn out a lot better than people think.
far too many times ...  
Hem Roid : 8/18/2015 10:48 am : link
you see the QB/RB handoff exchange and already have defenders baring down on our LOS and RB getting blown up the moment he gets the handoff ...

Eli may not be a scrambler, but he is very good at moving around the pocket and avoiding contact ... he was on the move quiet a lot last season and any semblance of a true passers pocket was a rarity ...
the  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/18/2015 10:49 am : link
line was bad last year.
Right now they have the makings of 3/5 of a good OL.  
Victor in CT : 8/18/2015 10:53 am : link
The other 2/5 are a big problem.
The big 3 RBs had 6 carries for 16 yards in Cinny  
JohnB : 8/18/2015 10:58 am : link
I hope no one thinks that is "good" or even decent.

I know its been beaten  
Hem Roid : 8/18/2015 11:02 am : link
like a dead horse, and the way it transpired didn't even favor the Giants, but what a difference it really would of made to of taken La'el in the 7th, use a little of the box thinking ... hindsight 20/20
in rewatching the bengals game  
SirYesSir : 8/18/2015 11:23 am : link
I kind of focused in on three guys for more study -

Mosely - Highs and lows, looked better in his snaps at guard than tackle

Hart - Pretty darn good. Didn't look really fluid, like he was thinking too much, but showed good technique and competed very well

Gettis - I can't tell you how impressed I was. Very disciplined, never seemed out of control and always seemed to know where he was going and what he was doing. He seemed a little smaller than most guards, but was so sound in his technique it didn't seem to matter. He got pushed back on a bull rush once that I saw, but even then he stayed in the way rather than fall to the side and leave a clear path. He played a lot, and I was highly impressed. I'd love to see him go against someones first team to get a better evaluation.
The line was bad last year... BUT  
sb from NYT Forum : 8/18/2015 11:24 am : link
...we had without question the worst center in the NFL (Walton), a rookie (Richburg) playing a position he is too small for and hadn't played since he was 18 years old, and a RT (Brown) who if you called him "just a warm body" he'd take it as a compliment. In short, I expect this year's line to be better.

I wouldn't be shocked at all if Jerry's play picks up if he has some actual seasoned professionals playing next to him.
How Bad is the Giants OL compaired to  
xman : 8/18/2015 11:24 am : link
the rest of the league? Are we average? Last years RB's couldn't gain yards behind Dallas' OL other the Jennings. I wonder if the OL was league average last year
Screw La'ell Collins  
sb from NYT Forum : 8/18/2015 11:26 am : link
...he's got character issues and is known to not be a hard worker. I wouldn't want a guy like that near our young players. I have no doubt that he'll flame out in that circus in Texas.
Something Upbeat  
Percy : 8/18/2015 11:34 am : link
For a change. Good thoughts!
RE: How Bad is the Giants OL compaired to  
Hem Roid : 8/18/2015 11:40 am : link
In comment 12423832 xman said:
Quote:
the rest of the league? Are we average? Last years RB's couldn't gain yards behind Dallas' OL other the Jennings. I wonder if the OL was league average last year


it wasn't our RB's last year, Williams was productive ... did you watch any games ? notice the influx of defenders on our side of the LOS at the handoff exchange ... I think I can make a highlight reel of over 50
If you're still beating the La'el drum  
JonC : 8/18/2015 11:42 am : link
you're lost on what transpired draft weekend. Cease. Give it up.

OL showed some promise the other night on the left side. Need a RT to step up and Geoff to remain healthy, and they'll be fine.

The defense is of greater concern, the talent deficiency is over there.
you are rolling ...  
Hem Roid : 8/18/2015 11:51 am : link
2 very large dice hoping a RT emerges and Schwartz can remain on the field for the year ... what is he even capable of anyway ? He has played only a few games over the past 3 years ... I think the OLine preludes the defensive unknowns by a landslide ...
Well, every single position is different from  
barens : 8/18/2015 11:52 am : link
Last year, so that's never really a good thing. And while Flowers should end up being a terrific player, he's going to make his fair share of mistakes.
The dice has been rolled  
JonC : 8/18/2015 11:54 am : link
it is what it is now.
Last year the OL was awful except for last few games  
Vanzetti : 8/18/2015 11:56 am : link
Where they were decent

This year the Beatty injury really hurts because it basically negates getting Flowers. if Beatty can come back, then this line could be good by the end of the season and hopefully in the postseason

But right now, we are looking at 1 or possibly 2 JAGs filling out the line. that's not good
The defense needs talent at  
JonC : 8/18/2015 11:56 am : link
DE (needs dynamic pass rushers), DT (opposite Hankins), LB (all three spots are ordinary), CB (we've got two of quality), SS, and depth.

OL just needs to stay healthy, and add a RT next offseason (a need which was created by injury, and will probably be accelerated if they choose to move on from Beatty). Relax.
RE: Screw La'ell Collins  
CromartiesKid21 : 8/18/2015 11:56 am : link
In comment 12423837 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
...he's got character issues and is known to not be a hard worker. I wouldn't want a guy like that near our young players. I have no doubt that he'll flame out in that circus in Texas.


You might not want Flaherty around our younger OLinemen either
if the Giants had capable RBs the last 3 seasons  
djm : 8/18/2015 11:57 am : link
the record is better and the offensive stats are better.

The OL was far from a strength and it was a problem at times last season but the RB injuries and lack of talent were an even bigger problem. If this team has a healthy Andre BRown in 2012 we make the playoffs. IF they have healthy RBs in 2013 they probably finish with a misleading but somewhat tolerable 8-9 win seasons. And if they have Jennings all of last year they win 8 games.

Asking for healthy RBs throughout the season is a lot to ask but this team could not afford to lose their only legit back the last 3 years but that's exactly what happened. Jacobs and Bradshaw were cooked in 2012 and Brown was the only good option. Same with 2013. Williams was a mess early on last season.

The OL needs to come together but it wasn't the sole reason why the offense struggled last year. A RB is an OL and QBs best friend. This year Williams is a year better and Vereen provides much needed sizzle but Jennings better fucking stay healthy for the majority of this year. I'd handle him very carefully if I am Coughlin.
Williams was productive?  
djm : 8/18/2015 12:03 pm : link
Roid WTF are you talking about?

Williams was god awful until the Rams game. I'm not killing him because he was a rookie thrust into a tough spot but you're out of your mind if you think Williams was productive. He was downright terrible. Actually, he was the worst RB of all time if you do some research.

Keep beating the Collins drum it's all you've got.
Yes, the 2014 Line Was Bad  
Rong5611 : 8/18/2015 12:07 pm : link
But so was Andre Williams at times. The Jennings injury definitely hurt us. Agree with the previous poster, we might have won a couple of games and gotten to 8-8 with a healthy Jennings.

Unless Williams progresses during this camp, need to think about keeping 4 backs.
RE: Williams was productive?  
Hem Roid : 8/18/2015 12:12 pm : link
In comment 12423972 djm said:
Quote:
Roid WTF are you talking about?

Williams was god awful until the Rams game. I'm not killing him because he was a rookie thrust into a tough spot but you're out of your mind if you think Williams was productive. He was downright terrible. Actually, he was the worst RB of all time if you do some research.

Keep beating the Collins drum it's all you've got.


you don't think any of his "awful" had to do with the 5 guys in front ? they didn't do much to help the run game all season ... they did nothing actually
just to add to my feelings about the 2014 oline ...  
Hem Roid : 8/18/2015 12:14 pm : link
it really would have made no difference who was behind Eli bc at the snap, on any given run play there was a body already on our side of the LOS punching through ...
Yes  
Mr. Nickels : 8/18/2015 12:24 pm : link
Newhouse and Jerry are awful.

Schwartz can't get healthy fast enough then we only have to deal with one weakness. I really hope Mosely or Donnelly can take the job from Newhouse if we don't sign Jake Long.
of course a better OL would help  
djm : 8/18/2015 12:25 pm : link
there's middle ground but I don't care how bad the OL is, you need to be better than what Williams was last year for most of the season. Williams was LEshon Johnson bad last year until the latter part of the season. Again, he was a 4th round rookie thrust into a tough spot so I am willing to give him a pass but he was bad. Very bad.

IF WIlliams had the 90 Giants OL in front of him of course he does a better job but that doesn't mean he wasn't a troubled RB.
And  
Mr. Nickels : 8/18/2015 12:25 pm : link
Will Beatty isn't the answer either.

I think the future is bright with Flowers Pugh Richburg three premium draft picks. We just need to pipeline a replacement for Schwartz next season to eventually take over and find a legit RT and the line will be set.
line was bad last year  
bc4life : 8/18/2015 12:27 pm : link
even worse the year before that. IF - Beatty wasn't hurt and Schwartz could stay healthy I'd feel pretty good about the OLine, but that ain't the way things are.

Hopefully, Schwartz or Newhouse can effectively play RT. Not that concerned about left side - they'll get better with reps.
Defense were getting to our running backs  
nicky43 : 8/18/2015 2:22 pm : link
at the same time or in some cases before Eli was able to hand them the ball. If that's not a sure sign of a very bad o-line, nothing is!

In some games last year our running game saw just as much negative yardage as positive yardage and it is not the running backs.
RE: The line was bad last year... BUT  
AcidTest : 8/18/2015 2:38 pm : link
In comment 12423831 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
...we had without question the worst center in the NFL (Walton), a rookie (Richburg) playing a position he is too small for and hadn't played since he was 18 years old, and a RT (Brown) who if you called him "just a warm body" he'd take it as a compliment. In short, I expect this year's line to be better.

I wouldn't be shocked at all if Jerry's play picks up if he has some actual seasoned professionals playing next to him.


Agreed.
Not all bad  
Reale01 : 8/18/2015 3:28 pm : link
Flowers, Pugh, and Richburg to a lesser extent, look like they will be very good players. They are young and have upside - possibly close to all-pro.

Schwartz is solid if healthy and Beatty is also solid if healthy.

There are a bunch of players who have showed some promise this year: Gettis, Hart, and possibly Mosely

Two veterans who are below average: Jerry and Newhouse.

Adding ONE good OL would make a huge difference. You need one of the younger guys to step up and to get something good from either Beatty or Shwartz.

A good indicator? Do we have Jerry, Newhouse, Herman, Reynolds, Mosely as reserves? If so then you know we have not seen anyone good come up.

Flowers, Pugh, Richburg, Schwartz and Beatty are a good five.

We need two starting caliber guys to step up behind Shwartz and Beatty. May only be one on the roster now.


RE: far too many times ...  
giantgiantfan : 8/18/2015 5:18 pm : link
In comment 12423709 Hem Roid said:
Quote:
you see the QB/RB handoff exchange and already have defenders baring down on our LOS and RB getting blown up the moment he gets the handoff ...

Eli may not be a scrambler, but he is very good at moving around the pocket and avoiding contact ... he was on the move quiet a lot last season and any semblance of a true passers pocket was a rarity ...


Eli not a scrambler? Eli disagrees...
You Can't Teach Speed - ( New Window )
Seriously?  
Doomster : 8/18/2015 8:08 pm : link
How Bad is the Giants OL compaired to
xman : 11:24 am : link : reply
the rest of the league? Are we average? Last years RB's couldn't gain yards behind Dallas' OL other the Jennings.

Even you could have gained yards behind that line....
i love the optimism  
NYG4246 : 8/20/2015 8:41 am : link
and you have some nice points about jennings and his ypc but the line rarely opened up holes that would gain substansial yardage. I'm fine with 3.5 ypc but there were so many times run plays gained 0 or negative yardage.

I dont think they did a bad job protecting eli but it could also have been a product of the quick passes.

we cant grade out the line after the 1st preseason game or even the first regular season game. They will continue to develop as the season progresses. If they can win games early in the season and give the line a few weeks to develop this team could really round into shape just in time to get Beatty back.

its not that bad but its not very good. theyll get better.
big fan of  
NYG4246 : 8/20/2015 8:42 am : link
bobby hart btw. he will be playing for us sooner then later.
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